Mini Normal 1908 - In The Web (Game Over)

[BigYoshiFan]

VOTE: Transcend

[BigYoshiFan]

Deli-bird. Boom.

[BigYoshiFan]

I am intrigued.

[BigYoshiFan]

VOTE: Tarkus
Those are fighting words.

[BigYoshiFan]

[BigYoshiFan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCFRJEjM3fc
VOTE: Gamma Emerald

[BigYoshiFan]

I doubt any of us have intentions of a quick-lynch.

[BigYoshiFan]

I would unvote and I would expect enough people to unvote to where he's not in danger of being quick-lynched.

[BigYoshiFan]

*shrugs*
What can I say?

[BigYoshiFan]

I'm thinking all three of us are town.
UNVOTE: Gamma Emerald
VOTE: TwoFace

[BigYoshiFan]

Why tf not? He's a slight townread now.

[BigYoshiFan]

What they said.

[BigYoshiFan]

Not liking his responses here. It looks like he's just looking for things to attack.

This would imply something I've said is invalid?

Not quite. In this instance, fishing for something you can incriminate me with. I'm starting to feel it too.

[BigYoshiFan]

Yo Transcend!

[BigYoshiFan]

Yoshi!

On lunch break and phone is gonna die

Yoshi this is the first game i flipped town with you in it

Hooray!

You townread me already?

[BigYoshiFan]

Wut

Pedit no

I'm just telling you I'm town

Gotcha, I thought you were saying you townread me.

[BigYoshiFan]

Transcend weren't you in House of Harmony?

He was, and I townread the shit out of him and gerry and fro99er and they were ALL scum.

[BigYoshiFan]

I thought we (town) were gonna win that one. :/

[BigYoshiFan]

At school, hiiiiiii!
Townreads: Gamma Emerald, Hikari Link
Scumreads: Transcend, TwoFace

[BigYoshiFan]

And so was that.

[BigYoshiFan]

TwoFace, do you have much experience with Transcend?

[BigYoshiFan]

Like how much experience? I'll discuss my purpose for asking if I receive an answer.

[BigYoshiFan]

Not liking his responses here. It looks like he's just looking for things to attack.

This would imply something I've said is invalid?

Not quite. In this instance, fishing for something you can incriminate me with. I'm starting to feel it too.

Why is everybody calling this paranoia? TwoFace went as far as to say "worry". I'm not worried or paranoid, TwoFace, that he will find something incriminating of me, I am simply agreeing with Titus and telling him what I think he is trying to do.

[BigYoshiFan]

TwoFace went as far as to say "worry". I'm not worried or paranoid

that post certainly implies you are...

I honestly don't think it does.

[BigYoshiFan]

Like how much experience? I'll discuss my purpose for asking if I receive an answer.

i've given an answer btw. so can you now discuss your purpose?

So, you've called out Transcend for his lacklustered posts. I am trying to determine if your interactions with Transcend are genuine. With Transcend, I don't think posts like he's made so far are out of the ordinary for him. I'm not sure if this is materializing into anything, yet.

[BigYoshiFan]

if you interpret somebody asking you questions as they are trying to incriminate you, then yes in my opinion you are worried about them. If you have nothing to hide you should not be bothered by anyone asking you questions, especially when the point of this game is to ask questions.

Worried about them being scum, I guess.

[BigYoshiFan]

So, you've called out Transcend for his lacklustered posts. I am trying to determine if your interactions with Transcend are genuine. With Transcend, I don't think posts like he's made so far are out of the ordinary for him. I'm not sure if this is materializing into anything, yet.

why couldn't you have said that before hand? why did you need to know what my experience was?

I feel like if I told you, you might not have given me an answer and discarded it as nonsense. If you only played, say, 1 game with him, then you probably don't have an accurate sense of their play and would give less validity to how you're interacting with Transcend. You have 3 and thensome though.

[BigYoshiFan]

Worried about them being scum, I guess.

That makes no sense

So the only logical conclusion to you is that I'm scum and I am worried about him fishing to incriminate me, because I am scum.

[BigYoshiFan]

It didn't feel like scumhunting, it felt like fishing.

[BigYoshiFan]

I've legitimately answered everything he asked from me too. It's not like I've been super conservative towards his questions.

[BigYoshiFan]

In a game where the best way to scum hunt is to ask questions, to be suspicious of somebody doing that doesn't really make sense from a town pov.

To be suspicious of anyone asking questions?

[BigYoshiFan]

VOTE: mmm

Why?

[BigYoshiFan]

Because Undertale stole me. <3
Yoshi will come back eventually.

Also, Hikari, I'm not ignoring your suspicion. I didn't think you wanted a direct response. If you want me to address something, I'm here.

[BigYoshiFan]

stinky

also bc hikari sin't getting lynched d1

or d2

possibly d3 as well

better question: why isn't your avatar yoshi anymore?

What's your reason for voting mmm though? Why is he scummy?

[BigYoshiFan]

29 and 35 are clearly direct questions trying to get you to explain yourself. They were good questions because your reasoning wasn't clear.

If you are town and you honestly find that suspicious, I'm confused because I see no reason why anyone could/would be suspicious of that.

(Boy that was hard. The old me would insert an insult here).

I mean I purposely leave off reasons to force people to ask me follow up questions so I can see who's interested in scum hunting and who isn't. You think follow ups are suspicious.

Very strange

I really appreciate that by the way.

I think I'm starting to realize that I'm of the lesser opinion, and probably less logical opinion, that MortFeld was fishing. I found it weird that in RVS someone would take what I say so seriously, because I was honestly not thinking much then, just trying to move along. He's doing that by asking questions too, I know.

[BigYoshiFan]

I think I'm just confusing myself by using the word "fishing".

[BigYoshiFan]

That's what I felt earlier. Now, a little less.

[BigYoshiFan]

Scumread on Transcend: he seems to be faking his "I don't give a shit" attitude he has as town.

Also, TwoFace, Gamma also agrees with me that he often has a careless attitude in games. I know you're not a fan of meta and you claim to not use meta, but in some cases I don't think it can be helped. Still haven't come to a conclusion on the genuinity (I'm officially making that a word) of your interaction with him, especially with 153.

I'm TR'ing Gamma right now. Calling Mort and I out as town as early as he did gave me town vibes. Calling Transcend out for faking his careless attitude appealed to me because I agree with it, and it's not a type of read I think scum is likely to make. And, although he was self-aware of this, excluding himself from the BYF/Mort/Gamma group when talking about it has also given me town vibes.

[BigYoshiFan]

yoshi why are you still voting twoface

Good question.
VOTE: Transcend

[BigYoshiFan]

Transcend, I understand you MMM as a scumread and Hikari as a townread (I think), yes? Anything to add? Can you elaborate on your MMM scumread?

[BigYoshiFan]

I doubt it; I don't consider myself good.

[BigYoshiFan]

A lot of it usually comes from tone reads, but I usually tend to stray away from revealing reads just based on tone.
Something else I do is to just look for the logic behind a statement. Is it sound?
Now, since I can't tone read Transcend, I'm just trying to find the logic in his reads.
Voting patterns also help me make reads.

It's really shallow to be honest, and hasn't served me too well. I'm really trying to become better at this game and avoid certain habits of mine.

[BigYoshiFan]

Wait, Yoshi why Transcend vote? Transcend is right, nether MMM nor Yoshi are even sheeping TF

I wasn't satisfied with his contribution to the game. Gamma started scumreading him because he thought Transcend was faking his careless attitude, which I began to see a bit. Also, the interaction between TwoFace and Transcend (especially at 153) had me thinking they're teamed. It didn't seem completely genuine and, like I said, Transcend has a history of carelessness, so attacking him based off that when they have experience with him seemed off.

[BigYoshiFan]

He hasn't done anything unreasonable, let's just chill.

[BigYoshiFan]

Transcend, don't leave. I only signed up to play because I saw you on the list.

[BigYoshiFan]

Then join the new game i join

I retracted my sub out twice and still got lynched by the player i wanted to sub out because of

I'm not letting it happen a third time

I can't fully contribute to two games, and I don't like replacing out of games.

[BigYoshiFan]

Well, I'm townreading Transcend's slot now. Transcend wouldn't do that as scum, but it's unfortunate this had to happen for me to townread him.

[BigYoshiFan]

I honestly just don't think Transcend would sub out to bolster his position as scum.

[BigYoshiFan]

You may think it shouldn't, but it does for me.

[BigYoshiFan]

Nevermind about my read then.

[BigYoshiFan]

Let's not go as far as to say someone's frustration is fake. Let's just accept that Transcend replaced and move on.

[BigYoshiFan]

I guess so.

[BigYoshiFan]

Ok, this looks like weak town Transcend. I can't really do much with naked reasons, but that generally is how he likes to play town. So I'll put him as town for now and hope he gives more later.

Getting d1ed by a bunch of idiots who can't read me.

Lame.

>calling everyone lynching him idiots

I don't like his progression through the game

I don't like his pre flip associations

>not a single example

Titus+Mort/BYF+GE for early scum team imo

Not associating anyone that's just who I think is scummiest atm

Titus for reactions on me
Mort/BYF gives me TvS vibes
GE just feels scummy to me

This is junk

This is junk too

Mort help get the votes off of me lol

>does ate

I'm bad at defending myself unless i ate/wifom which i don't like doing

>talks about ateing next post

I'm sorry is this mafia or is this a fucking popularity contest?

Baaah.

Willing to vote Trans based on this and TwoFace.

These don't coincide well with me, especially if it's TwoFace's 153 post that you're referring to.

[BigYoshiFan]

I really don't have time for this game today, but I want to come back when I can and try to analyze everything that's been going down.

This isn't a response on the state of this game, I just feel I need to leave this comment for TwoFace.

I know it's a bit on the long side, but I implore you to read it and at least consider it.

I've seen how toxic you can get. I don't blame him at all.

Right and I'm not doing that this game which makes his frustration towards me come off as fake.

Like if I was doing all the things that people say they hated about me, I'd get it but I'm literally not.

I'm not trying to insult you, but I've really got to disagree. You're not being super toxic, but a few of your attitudes could be perceived as toxic and could absolutely drive somebody away.

1. Your implication that different playstyles are scummy.

2. Your apparent unwillingness to acknowledge the legitimacy of other people's

feelings

about the game.

3. Your insistence that you haven't even done anything that would drive people away.

You may feel that you are new and improved (and you probably are), but there is always room for improvement. Some of your attitudes can come across as arrogant and toxic.

I've been in similar positions. Back around 2007-2010, I was a really shitty person. I was a little better by the time I joined this site, 2011, but still an arrogant prick. After I left, I worked to become a better person, and I thought I had. But after learning more about relationships in around 2015, I realized that I was still an asshole, so I kept working at it. Flash forward to now and I'm still a work in progress. How I am now is like night and day from how I was 10 years ago, but I still feel like I have a long way to go. I believe that not being an asshole is a lifetime pursuit; the second you think you aren't an asshole is the second you fail.

Again, this is not an attack on you as a person, TwoFace. It's just something I think you may want to consider. Now I really do need to do other things today.

I endorse this, and I really appreciate how you've put this, Hikari.

[BigYoshiFan]

UNVOTE: Transcend

[BigYoshiFan]

Your apparent unwillingness to acknowledge the legitimacy of other people's feelings about the game.

I have no clue what you are even referring to with this one.

I've seen how toxic you can get. I don't blame him at all.

Right and I'm not doing that this game which makes his frustration towards me come off as fake.

Like if I was doing all the things that people say they hated about me, I'd get it but I'm literally not.

One example is when you come to this conclusion that Transcend is faking his frustration. You may not be doing exactly what causes previous players to become frustrated, but that doesn't mean he's frustration isn't legitimate. He's had bad experiences with you, maybe he's afraid it will resurface and just wanted to avoid that.

[BigYoshiFan]

I'm not trying to insult you, but I've really got to disagree. You're not being super toxic, but a few of your attitudes could be perceived as toxic and could absolutely drive somebody away.

You are basically saying anyone who pushes on a scum read is toxic. That's terrible logic

Was this pushing your scumread?

If you play honest, you can't be scummy.

I agree with all of your wall but for this conclusion.

Well I've yet to see you play honest and you say I can't read you for shit so...

Getting d1ed by a bunch of idiots who can't read me.

Lame.

Blame others for your mistakes. LofuckingL

[BigYoshiFan]

Spoiler:

Ok, this looks like weak town Transcend. I can't really do much with naked reasons, but that generally is how he likes to play town. So I'll put him as town for now and hope he gives more later.

Getting d1ed by a bunch of idiots who can't read me.

Lame.

>calling everyone lynching him idiots

I don't like his progression through the game

I don't like his pre flip associations

>not a single example

Titus+Mort/BYF+GE for early scum team imo

Not associating anyone that's just who I think is scummiest atm

Titus for reactions on me
Mort/BYF gives me TvS vibes
GE just feels scummy to me

This is junk

This is junk too

Mort help get the votes off of me lol

>does ate

I'm bad at defending myself unless i ate/wifom which i don't like doing

>talks about ateing next post

I'm sorry is this mafia or is this a fucking popularity contest?

Baaah.

Willing to vote Trans based on this and TwoFace.

These don't coincide well with me, especially if it's TwoFace's 153 post that you're referring to.

That's the best reason for a scumread I have at the moment.
VOTE: Titus

[BigYoshiFan]

If we're not lynching Transcend, can we lynch Mort and BYF?

Why are you scumreading me?

[BigYoshiFan]

Well, I'm townreading Transcend's slot now. Transcend wouldn't do that as scum, but it's unfortunate this had to happen for me to townread him.

I honestly just don't think Transcend would sub out to bolster his position as scum.

You may think it shouldn't, but it does for me.

UNVOTE: Transcend

That's quite a while to go townreading somebody before you unvote them.

Transcend did make clear his intentions for running out, which I misinterpreted a bit, and then my townread (for the most part) disappeared. I didn't really see a reason to keep my vote on or take my vote off, although keepin it on seemed slightly more appealing to pressure the replacement.

[BigYoshiFan]

388 was will after the to examples he posted in 381, where he said he provided no examples.

the issue is mmm explained his reads were not pre associative, they were just his top scum reads so transcend's accusation that came AFTER mmm already explained that was a false accusation.

I don't care. Just because somebody says words, doesn't make them true.

He provided 2 suspected *groupings* of scum.

4 players split into two groups of two, with neither player in the other group.

That's an association read no matter what excuses he makes. Period.

I'm sorry, but what does "associative" mean here? Isn't anything with a group of people associative?

[BigYoshiFan]

Well, with reason of course. You put those people in a group for a reason, right? Their interactions, more likely than not, with each other. Isn't that associative?

[BigYoshiFan]

Eh, sorry. I misunderstood some things. It just didn't make sense in my head to propose a scumteam just based on each individual's actions alone. I guess that's the best way I can explain whatever happened in my head.
Disregard everything I just said.

And... thanks for not being really critical.

[BigYoshiFan]

I get that it was done to get scumreads out in the early game, but when you put them together and propose it as a team, yeah.

[BigYoshiFan]

From my PoV, I can see how Transcend thought it was an associative read. Consequently, I wouldn't let this affect how someone thought of 388 as a whole.

[BigYoshiFan]

I don't know how I'll be able to sufficiently explain to you this, but motivation is probably not a wise way to read Transcend.
I don't think scum would be... bold(?) enough to just post whatever comes to their mind like that. His posts don't have that certain attention to detail that I'm sure scum would be careful to include, and his AtE just seemed genuine. It's hard to fake that as scum in my opinion. That's the best way I can explain my—essentially—tone read on Transcend.
Yeah, I guess I'm townreading him now.

[BigYoshiFan]

I don't think scum would be... bold(?) enough to just post whatever comes to their mind like that.

You don't know Transcend either, if you think that's true.

Is it just that portion you disagree with?

[BigYoshiFan]

If we're not lynching Transcend, can we lynch Mort and BYF?

Why are you scumreading me?

[BigYoshiFan]

Have you made your own case on either of us?

[BigYoshiFan]

Check this out from Titus?

Spoiler:

Ok, this looks like weak town Transcend. I can't really do much with naked reasons, but that generally is how he likes to play town. So I'll put him as town for now and hope he gives more later.

Getting d1ed by a bunch of idiots who can't read me.

Lame.

>calling everyone lynching him idiots

I don't like his progression through the game

I don't like his pre flip associations

>not a single example

Titus+Mort/BYF+GE for early scum team imo

Not associating anyone that's just who I think is scummiest atm

Titus for reactions on me
Mort/BYF gives me TvS vibes
GE just feels scummy to me

This is junk

This is junk too

Mort help get the votes off of me lol

>does ate

I'm bad at defending myself unless i ate/wifom which i don't like doing

>talks about ateing next post

I'm sorry is this mafia or is this a fucking popularity contest?

Baaah.

Willing to vote Trans based on this and TwoFace.

If we're not lynching Transcend, can we lynch Mort and BYF?

Tarkus, can you join us on Transcend and we do Yoshi later. I cannot vote twice.

[BigYoshiFan]

She still hasn't answered why she's scumreading me.

[BigYoshiFan]

397, and her reads in general, look horrifically opportunistic.
She calls Transcend weak town in 182 based on his playstyle, so I find it hard to believe she was convinced he was scum after 388 and whatever TwoFace has said.
She still hasn't explained her read on me, and perhaps even ignored my request to explain it.
She doesn't have anything original that she's pushing (except Mortfeld I suppose), just other opinions.

[BigYoshiFan]

I feel you on that, MortFeld.

[BigYoshiFan]

@Mod: Replace me since apparently it's acceptable gor slots to bully other players and cry when they don't get what they want, I want no part in this game. I cannot play in a player list that endorses such behavior.

I don't like the timing of this sub out.

[BigYoshiFan]

397, and her reads in general, look horrifically opportunistic.
She calls Transcend weak town in 182 based on his playstyle, so I find it hard to believe she was convinced he was scum after 388 and whatever TwoFace has said.
She still hasn't explained her read on me, and perhaps even ignored my request to explain it.
She doesn't have anything original that she's pushing (except Mortfeld I suppose), just other opinions.

@TwoFace
She left without explaining her read on me (and Mort, as he claims). I don't think a Town Titus would leave without explaining.

[BigYoshiFan]

If you were fed up to hell, I suppose. I don't think anything that's happened so far, considering she wasn't a direct part of any conflict, would cause her to leave with so much... emotion that she wouldn't bother explain a read as town.

[BigYoshiFan]

Also, why did she wait until now to replace out if it was for that reason?

[BigYoshiFan]

Right.
Titus' sub-out comes off as less genuine for that reason, would you agree?

[BigYoshiFan]

I'm not doubting that she was frustrated with the conflicts, but waiting until now... seems like there's an ulterior motive.

[BigYoshiFan]

And now it becomes a trust tell... sigh.

[BigYoshiFan]

That makes sense. Even if I'm not considering the timing of her sub out, she's still acted scummy.

[BigYoshiFan]

*shrug*
I don't know what to tell you then. Could you try and elaborate on your Titus read? I personally don't think their willingness to discuss the game with you accounts for much—more of a personal read I guess—but can you tell me what in their posts feels town?

[BigYoshiFan]

That reads list doesn't give me good vibes. I'll try to explain it later.

[BigYoshiFan]

Right.
Titus' sub-out comes off as less genuine for that reason, would you agree?

Just because we can't explain it doesn't necessarily mean it's not genuine.

Not

necessarily

, but it doesn't make sense to replace out now, when tensions are rather low, for that reason.
I guess I'm not convincing anyone with this, so I'll just shut up.

[BigYoshiFan]

Yeah, alright then.

[BigYoshiFan]

That makes sense. Even if I'm not considering the timing of her sub out, she's still acted scummy.

?
why does it become ok as soon as i add the clause that it doesn't make her town? idgi

Do you mean "it doesn't make her scum"?
Anyways, I understand your PoV. That's all I was saying.

[BigYoshiFan]

@grey; the thing was that there was no scum motivation for trying to make me more emotive rly.

But does that make it townie?

[BigYoshiFan]

it's more like
exhibit a) I say that it's not NAI, you think that I'm saying Titus is town = you say it's bad
exhibit b) I explain that I don't think it's AI = you say it's alright

feels like you just want to oppose everything that opposes the titus wagon tbh

I hope that's not the impression I've given everyone.

After you explained in 767, I understood that it wasn't a trust tell and I could relate this to how I felt about Transcend. That's as best as I can explain it.

[BigYoshiFan]

it's more like
exhibit a) I say that it's not NAI, you think that I'm saying Titus is town = you say it's bad
exhibit b) I explain that I don't think it's AI = you say it's alright

feels like you just want to oppose everything that opposes the titus wagon tbh

You even say it yourself. You

say

that it's NAI and I say it's bad. You

explain

why it's NAI and I understand.

[BigYoshiFan]

I prefer Titus' lynch, but I can also go MarioManiac or MMM.
I don't think I wanna lynch Gamma Emerald. Heading off to school now.

[BigYoshiFan]

Titus

Why Titus

I've explained here.

Spoiler:

Ok, this looks like weak town Transcend. I can't really do much with naked reasons, but that generally is how he likes to play town. So I'll put him as town for now and hope he gives more later.

Getting d1ed by a bunch of idiots who can't read me.

Lame.

>calling everyone lynching him idiots

I don't like his progression through the game

I don't like his pre flip associations

>not a single example

Titus+Mort/BYF+GE for early scum team imo

Not associating anyone that's just who I think is scummiest atm

Titus for reactions on me
Mort/BYF gives me TvS vibes
GE just feels scummy to me

This is junk

This is junk too

Mort help get the votes off of me lol

>does ate

I'm bad at defending myself unless i ate/wifom which i don't like doing

>talks about ateing next post

I'm sorry is this mafia or is this a fucking popularity contest?

Baaah.

Willing to vote Trans based on this and TwoFace.

These don't coincide well with me, especially if it's TwoFace's 153 post that you're referring to.

397, and her reads in general, look horrifically opportunistic.
She calls Transcend weak town in 182 based on his playstyle, so I find it hard to believe she was convinced he was scum after 388 and whatever TwoFace has said.
She still hasn't explained her read on me, and perhaps even ignored my request to explain it.
She doesn't have anything original that she's pushing (except Mortfeld I suppose), just other opinions.

And there was my stuff on her sub out, which you can read in my ISO if you want.

[BigYoshiFan]

BigYoshiFan's posts on Titus' replacing being AI feel weirdish still, like he is looking for reasons to scumread Titus because of the momentum planted there. His vote on Titus overall really doesn't make much sense to me. So I guess scum could be there? I'm looking at the ISOs and posts in this game and I'm thinking, "alright, this one could be about scumhunting, it could be doing x" but it's hard to determine what is actually happening. I'm going to be referring to more recent posts from here on out and see if it helps if I read the discussions in real time individually and ask questions about them.

What about my vote doesn't make sense?

[BigYoshiFan]

Titus

Why Titus

Kinda weird you asked for Titus, which is the only person listed that I explained my scumread for.

[BigYoshiFan]

Titus

Why Titus

Kinda weird you asked for Titus, which is the only person listed that I explained my scumread for.

You said that was your preference so why is that weird?

That first post you originally explained why never made sense to me and it still doesn't. I somehow missed the 2nd post and my first thought was why would it be weird for Titus to be convinced by my post when my post as previously stated by me was fucking awesome.

The things I pointed out that transcend did are still undisputed scummy. Nobody including you has explained how any of transcends actions could come from town.

People town reading transcend basically cause of meta or "bad feeling " worry me. But being wrong also worries me.

I'm still waiting for a convincing argument and the closest I've seen to one has been from mort. His post was really good. Why can't you make a good post? Make me change my read on you? You still look like scum pushing bad reasons.

I don't understand what you don't understand.
Are you at a complete lost what I'm referring to when I speak about Titus?
Are you confused on how Titus is scummy for what I've pointed out?
And what post from Mort did you like? Was it 824? Would you like a case formatted like that, with specific posts for everything?

[BigYoshiFan]

Hi Wheme!

[BigYoshiFan]

Ok, this looks like weak town Transcend. I can't really do much with naked reasons, but that generally is how he likes to play town. So I'll put him as town for now and hope he gives more later.

Getting d1ed by a bunch of idiots who can't read me.

Lame.

>calling everyone lynching him idiots

I don't like his progression through the game

I don't like his pre flip associations

>not a single example

Titus+Mort/BYF+GE for early scum team imo

Not associating anyone that's just who I think is scummiest atm

Titus for reactions on me
Mort/BYF gives me TvS vibes
GE just feels scummy to me

This is junk

This is junk too

Mort help get the votes off of me lol

>does ate

I'm bad at defending myself unless i ate/wifom which i don't like doing

>talks about ateing next post

I'm sorry is this mafia or is this a fucking popularity contest?

Baaah.

Willing to vote Trans based on this and TwoFace.

These don't coincide well with me, especially if it's TwoFace's 153 post that you're referring to.

Mmm and I both made good points. You find it odd he was convinced by others is weird.

I'll respond to the rest of your posts but most likely I'll be replacing out

Titus (who is a girl, by the way) called Transcend "weak town" for his play, which you described (especially in 153) as particularly scummy. MMM didn't point out anything that varies widely from how he's played in the early game, and Titus wants to vote Transcend for those? That's how I'm seeing it, is there anything you disagree with here?

[BigYoshiFan]

Before you replace out, can we have some discussion over this?
I'll admit, I'm pretty stubborn with reads, and if you legitimately believe my reads and reasoning are likely incorrect, I want to at least understand why.

[BigYoshiFan]

I think we all do.

[BigYoshiFan]

VOTE: Ircher

Then what about this dude

Why him?

[BigYoshiFan]

Are you confused on how Titus is scummy for what I've pointed out?

Titus abandoned a meta read for game related reasons. Yes I'm very confused why anyone would find that scummy. Can you explain why somebody doing something pro town is scummy to you?

At the time she did it, it look opportunistic.
It was a huge shift too, because you and MMM were still pointing out things that she thought was Transcend's town game in 182. The progression goes from a weak town-read for his meta straight to "Okay, I'll vote him for that same reason." That doesn't strike me as being genuine.
I'll brb in like... an hour.

[BigYoshiFan]

Alright, whatever you want. You seemed really... concerned about my reads.

[BigYoshiFan]

Do you have anything to add for my case against Titus?

[BigYoshiFan]

Only way I stay is if we PL fitz.

Oh, so you're cool lynching that slot anyway? XD

[BigYoshiFan]

Spoiler:

Ok, this looks like weak town Transcend. I can't really do much with naked reasons, but that generally is how he likes to play town. So I'll put him as town for now and hope he gives more later.

Getting d1ed by a bunch of idiots who can't read me.

Lame.

>calling everyone lynching him idiots

I don't like his progression through the game

I don't like his pre flip associations

>not a single example

Titus+Mort/BYF+GE for early scum team imo

Not associating anyone that's just who I think is scummiest atm

Titus for reactions on me
Mort/BYF gives me TvS vibes
GE just feels scummy to me

This is junk

This is junk too

Mort help get the votes off of me lol

>does ate

I'm bad at defending myself unless i ate/wifom which i don't like doing

>talks about ateing next post

I'm sorry is this mafia or is this a fucking popularity contest?

Baaah.

Willing to vote Trans based on this and TwoFace.

There is absolutely nothing about Transcend in Titus' ISO between these posts. She goes straight from TR to SR for the same reasons.

[BigYoshiFan]

(though your push on her makes me think town)

Is this because you think I'm scum or the things I'm pointing out appear townie in your eyes or...

[BigYoshiFan]

Can we just let fitz have an opportunity to present himself in a civil manner?

[BigYoshiFan]

I'm sure his position doesn't feel completely foreign to you. I doubt you would appreciate someone dragging you down for toxicity in another game.

[BigYoshiFan]

Fitz is at L-3, and TwoFace's two votes could put him at L-1.

[BigYoshiFan]

Who are your town reads?

[BigYoshiFan]

And any other scumreads?

[BigYoshiFan]

Alright. Thanks.
I dunno, I just wanted to know. XD
Maybe spark a conversation or two.

P-edit: I'm sure everyone appreciates that, TwoFace. I know I do.

[BigYoshiFan]

Fitz, can I have a definitive reads list from you?

[BigYoshiFan]

As a scum team? Is that associative?
And why?

[BigYoshiFan]

Nice to see you agree now.

[BigYoshiFan]

Fitz, can I have a definitive reads list from you?

Given. More detail in the morning.

I'll hold you to that.

[BigYoshiFan]

Been leaning town on Mort but not caring for his multiple excuse posts the last page or two.

Go f**k yourself

Beyond being annoyed by this it's terrible. You're shading a townread for no reason. Do you think my excuse posts are scum indicative? Then why are you townreading me? And if not, why are you shading me?

I'm getting used to playing while working a new job and I'm in 3 games at once. Lay off.

Pedit: I have posted a couple times about work I think? Idk. I can't devote as much time to Mafia as I need to but I'm doing my best.

I never would've guessed you were in 3 games and had a new job; you're doing just fine.

[BigYoshiFan]

And I noticed that after I call out your first wall post as iioa you quickly abandoned the format.

Is that scummy or...

[BigYoshiFan]

RayFrost

Oh yeah, this is a player.

[BigYoshiFan]

@TwoFace, Why not?
UNVOTE: fitz

[BigYoshiFan]

actually
VOTE: Ircher

You're vote in wheme was the right one. Ircher is already 10xtownier cause that single post wheme called bad is better than all of wheme's posts combined. Probably better than transcend's posts also

Eh I see it as Ircher trying to look like he's doing stuff but isn't really

Does the shade feel nice, Ircher?

[BigYoshiFan]

Okay, I have an AP exam tomorrow and I don't want ANY distractions. I'll be back in 24 hours, unless I can't resist checking this game.

[BigYoshiFan]

Precisely.

[BigYoshiFan]

I'm brain-dead now. I'll be back tomorrow, sorry.

[BigYoshiFan]

Topic got locked for a second. O.O
Anyways, why is that strange?

[BigYoshiFan]

I thought that too because I though Hikari Link was listing the people who were voting PP. XD

[BigYoshiFan]

That's a fair observation. I can almost guarantee I'll have read and posted by tomorrow, as long as the thread doesn't explode. I just can't do it right now.

[BigYoshiFan]

I'm here, and will hopefully completely catch up in one session.

[BigYoshiFan]

Hikari Link/Kelvin is not scum. I do not like that people are shading them for trying to move the gamestate along. People who have done this are Wheme and Yoshi. Maybe Yoshi should be in the above set too.

Where did I do this?

[BigYoshiFan]

The Whemestar wagon is my deadline lynch. I do still maintain a slight TR on him, but like TwoFace said, he won't help us whether he's town or scum.

I'd rather not lynch fitz today, mainly because of his watcher claim. He'll either prove himself or slowly start digging his grave with that claim, and we'll have a much better judgment of his alignment then.

I want a comprehensive reads list from Gamma. He hasn't done anything recently that invokes a townread from me, and the reasons I've given earlier aren't as important now. From there I will construct a read on Gamma.

PenguinPower is my desired lynch. Everything he's doing doesn't seem genuine. Reads on the basis of whether they agree with his reads or not. His push on Kelvin for his desire to get the day over with despite calling him a top-tier townread, stating that for that reason, his townread on Kelvin is declining, and ending it off in saying that it could be of either alignment. post 1365, post 1386, post 1405

But if I do it as town every game, people will TR me for doing it when I'm scum

I will now lynch this regardless of alignment.

Then he waits 10 posts. Also, what prompted this reaction? I'm not sure if I understand the scum motivation in Whemestar creating a truth tell, admitting it, and then stating it was a joke.

VOTE: wheme

VOTE: PenguinPower

[BigYoshiFan]

Also, quite proud of myself to committing to catching up instead of snoozing, which I almost did.

[BigYoshiFan]

Why leave out the post where I said I didn't want to push for Hikari's lynch today? Why leave out the post progression leading up to me voting Wheme - ya know, his "lol" "its a joke"? Rubbed me wrong, and I now I want him gone.

Also, both of my stated reads involving their reads were not solely based on that, and I stated as much. You shouldn't be so proud when you obviously made a shallow read through.

I don't have three I'm willing to lynch. I'll lynch Gamma or Wheme.

Can you include all the posts you're referring to here?

[BigYoshiFan]

Hey so I'm here who wants to talk

Has your Penguin read changed now that he's voted you?

[BigYoshiFan]

I feel you MMM, vote PP with me?

[BigYoshiFan]

Why don't you vote someone? @everyone not voting

[BigYoshiFan]

This town would rather lynch 1559 than 1573, 1454, and 1392 (which ends up with "Oh wait lol we have to lynch PP", and I guess I can't stop that. But I feel like Ircher's ISO speaks for itself. His case on Titus didn't read like analysing whether things meant town/scum, just whether things could be considered scummy. He apparently changed all of his reads from "willing to compromise" to "townreading 80% in the game, must lynch PP." and coming in to try and tell Mort that lurkers should always be lynched d1 on this site --- what?

VOTE: Ircher

With Mort's vote, I believe that is on the same level as Gamma.

Those posts make me townread Ircher tbh. Also, I don't recall where Ircher said lurkers should always be lynched d1. I recall him saying that they aren't bad D1 lynches, but not that they should always be lynched.

[BigYoshiFan]

PENGUIN

What changed?

[BigYoshiFan]

GUYS STOP PENGUIN IS TOWN I KNOW IT UNVOTE

Sorry, that's the full quote.

[BigYoshiFan]

I still don't understand why he voted you and what scum motivation he sees in the context that he did.

[BigYoshiFan]

I can see why all that makes Ircher look scummy, but he isn't pushing for a lurker lynch right now, not even trying really. He's stating his opinion and justifying the others in his lynch pool because he doesn't like the other likely wagons. That's how I see it.

[BigYoshiFan]

it only took one townread for him to go from, "when my reads aren't very strong, I am generally okay w/ lynching anyone who isn't someone I'm against lynching." to basically declaring he cannot see pp as town whatsoever?

I think it's rather, that's the best viable lynch in his opinion, not that PP is absolute scum.

[BigYoshiFan]

That his read on PP is worse than a slight townread? Also, perhaps it was also to encourage people off Wheme's lynchbait wagon.

[BigYoshiFan]

No. XD

[BigYoshiFan]

I see what you're saying now.

[BigYoshiFan]

I like that someone else has to explain everything for me so I get it.

[BigYoshiFan]

No but literally I'm staring at this for half an hour and I just don't get it.

I would think after playing like... seven or so games that this wouldn't happen as much anymore to me. Nope. Still happens. Nice to see some people relate.

[BigYoshiFan]

Ircher is basically saying what I thought he meant at first, so I'm just gonna avoid confusing myself here.

[BigYoshiFan]

RayFrost's posting currently is making me feel better about the slot.

RayFrost made you more confident Gamma is town?

[BigYoshiFan]

Why leave out the post where I said I didn't want to push for Hikari's lynch today? Why leave out the post progression leading up to me voting Wheme - ya know, his "lol" "its a joke"? Rubbed me wrong, and I now I want him gone.

Also, both of my stated reads involving their reads were not solely based on that, and I stated as much. You shouldn't be so proud when you obviously made a shallow read through.

I don't have three I'm willing to lynch. I'll lynch Gamma or Wheme.

Can you include all the posts you're referring to here?

@PP, please.

[BigYoshiFan]

Sure, but not until Monday. I'm pretty much V/La on weekends.

I mean, should be pretty easy for you given how you've posted about me...but yeah, I will.

Well, more importantly, I want to hear you explain the importance of the posts I've requested. Monday is cutting it close, but alright.

[BigYoshiFan]

More on Gamma and Ray's case tomorrow. I want Gamma to post his cases and I'll look through his ISO tomorrow, but Ray's use of the word "reactionary" to describe his play has intrigued me. The evidence he used is already influencing my read. Also, it didn't take me 30 minutes to comprehend, which I REALLY appreciate.

[BigYoshiFan]

I relate to it. :/

[BigYoshiFan]

PENGUIN, WHERE'S YOUR RESPONSE?

[BigYoshiFan]

Why leave out the post progression leading up to me voting Wheme - ya know, his "lol" "its a joke"? Rubbed me wrong, and I now I want him gone.

1427 1430 1432 1434 1436 1439

Thank you Penguin.
What scum motivation did you see here?

[BigYoshiFan]

Why leave out the post progression leading up to me voting Wheme - ya know, his "lol" "its a joke"? Rubbed me wrong, and I now I want him gone.

1427 1430 1432 1434 1436 1439

Thank you Penguin.
What scum motivation did you see here?

I think it's completely disingenuous, and the joke thing was an afterthought. Like...I'm a joke-style player/shitposter, especially early game, but I'm not going to be joking in that instance unless I was scum trying to throw people off.

Calling it an "afterthought" had me thinking there. The other stuff you've posted is valid too. I kinda just want the day to end too, but Whemestar is still an absolute deadline lynch for me. I still maintain that he's town.

[BigYoshiFan]

Love your avi btw.

Thank you! I love it too!

[BigYoshiFan]

Suddenly okay with another claim?

[BigYoshiFan]

Again, I'm only voting Ircher if it's absolute deadline lynch.

[BigYoshiFan]

Where was the case for Ircher? Maybe I can motivated.

[BigYoshiFan]

The only reason I haven't hammered yet is I am hoping to hear something from tarkus / twoface before this day ends. It's important to me.

I'm guessing they will be replaced.

Does that mean the deadline would be extended?

[BigYoshiFan]

Last Xnadroj game had a 2 shot cop, so I am inclined to believe 2-shot watcher.

At school, but this connection holds no credibility to me.

[BigYoshiFan]

I'm not buddies with anyone and of all the players in this game...the one most detrimental to my existence is you with 2 votes

Not even with the town?

[BigYoshiFan]

Okay, now that you've made your bullshit claims and it wasn't useful...

VOTE: havingfitz

I'm the Cop, I investigated fitz.

VOTE: havingfitz

[BigYoshiFan]

Putting yourself and Kelvin as confirmed and throwing everyone as neutral, I mean like.... doesn't really mean much.

[BigYoshiFan]

I honestly wish I hadn't said that because my reads list is probably gonna look the same.

[BigYoshiFan]

MMM vote was largely on him going way too far into the nightkill for town

We talked about this before, but you know those moments where you stare at something for like... 30 minutes and you still don't understand what they're saying.

[BigYoshiFan]

VOTE: Priscila
Incentive to respond sooner. I'm basically sheeping Ray's suspicion in 2037 and the theory in 2039 is so radical it's suspicious to me. Also, Hikari's opinion that the reads list is opportunistic.

[BigYoshiFan]

VOTE: Priscila
Incentive to respond sooner. I'm basically sheeping Ray's suspicion in 2037 and the theory in 2039 is so radical it's suspicious to me. Also, Hikari's opinion that the reads list is opportunistic.

Why do you think it is opportunistic? I don't really know what that suspicious is, so I can't comment.

I looked at your last two tiers thinking those were the likeliest candidates for a lynch today, and I just came to that conclusion, especially when there was no explanation. If this list is apparently outdated, I want a new one.

P-edit. I see Kelvin's post, posting this anyway.

[BigYoshiFan]

I am genuinely confused as to how I can come out with my first content as a tier list and a vote and people call that opportunistic?

I don't understand how this is far-fetched either.

[BigYoshiFan]

I'm not sure I like how a surprising large factor of your reads is based on RVS/Early Game.
You have suspicion on me for RVS and my reads in post 141 or something, what else?
I've got my reaction to both Transcend and Titus' replacements, more developed reads later on, more stuff in general. What about that?

[BigYoshiFan]

At school, hiiiiiii!
Townreads: Gamma Emerald, Hikari Link
Scumreads: Transcend, TwoFace

These reads feel forced. I don't get the sense from this post that he has done the legwork to arrive at these reads, they feel as though they hang in thin air rather than come about as a result of having genuinely processed his thoughts about those players. Compare this to the way that MMM expressed his reads - he seemed to be doing the work "behind the scenes" to reach his conclusions, and I think these are crucial villager indicators. Scum cannot go through town thought processes to sort their reads, and I feel that is lacking here from BYF. But this is just one post that I am noting.

I do somewhat like this analysis though. My excuse is that I was at school, and these reads were pretty much accepted by most people.

[BigYoshiFan]

MMM vote was largely on him going way too far into the nightkill for town

We talked about this before, but you know those moments where you stare at something for like... 30 minutes and you still don't understand what they're saying.

riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiip
well it's like, he's analysing the nightkill first and foremost, making a lot of logical jumps and axioms and applying them to logic, coming up with a lynchpool of 6 and establishing himself as town? is that a better explanation for it?

Gotcha.

[BigYoshiFan]

note how ircher's readlist has a lack of clear statements of what is town/scum, instead using "anti-town", "bad", "dismissive"- he's trying to comment on things he doesn't need to comment on and it makes it seem like he's doing more than he actually is

No.

The word usage is done the way its done because what may appear to be "scummy" may not be indicative of scum and vice-versa.

if you don't think they're scummy why are you talking about them?

I mean, why not?

[BigYoshiFan]

I really don't like either of the two posts you quoted there, Ircher.

[BigYoshiFan]

Tier list

PenguinPower, TwoFace, Kelvin Smith, RayFrost
MarioManiac4
Ircher, BigYoshiFan, MMM
Gamma Emerald

vote: Gamma Emerald

Why do you have such a comprehensive list so soon after replacing

Pretty sure that Priscila has said this list was based off of the early game, as she progresses through later posts after she posts this and even makes a new reads list after catching up further.

[BigYoshiFan]

One comment: I think that the way that Titus replaced out was very sudden and strange and probably there was some infighting in the scum team, from this I expect that she was being bussed and was unhappy about that. I am looking at Ircher for the prime suspect here.

If I have to pick a team, it is fitz+Gamma+Ircher.

O btw I'm going to re ISO fitz to check for town, since as I said he detests bussing
NVM me asking about the list, I thought you replaed Kelvin

If you explicitly said this day one, this probably doesn't hold as much credibility because he knows you think that now. I'm pretty sure you voted him on day two as well, so, as scum, you would be using this bus to try and earn towncred.

[BigYoshiFan]

I think as of right now, my preferred order would be Gamma, PP/Priscila, MM4/MMM, everyone else.
Some of Gamma's recent posts I've responded to I really don't like.

I'm not for or against thr massclaim tbh. I have mixed feelings. So far we have an odd-night cop, doublevoter, and 2-shot gunsmith for town, and two-shot roleblocker for scum. Scum's target for this night is probably obvious unless they suspect a town protective, so any other town claim would likely be safe for a night unless they are town protective. But, if someone does claim town PR that is not protective, then there's much less of a threat of town protective to scum. I dunno, that's where my head is at.

[BigYoshiFan]

Sorry, I'm dumb. Lol. Take out PP and MM4.

[BigYoshiFan]

Vanilla Townie.

[BigYoshiFan]

Pretty sure that Priscila has said this list was based off of the early game, as she progresses through later posts after she posts this and even makes a new reads list after catching up further.

I explicitly said that it was based off my quick read of the whole game. You assumed that it was based on the early game because I began talking about the early game first.

Sorry, you did say that.

[BigYoshiFan]

Tier list

PenguinPower, TwoFace, Kelvin Smith, RayFrost
MarioManiac4
Ircher, BigYoshiFan, MMM
Gamma Emerald

vote: Gamma Emerald

Why do you have such a comprehensive list so soon after replacing

I still really dislike this post, like it's bad shade-throwing or something. I don't understand why this is an issue. Also, he says "so soon." How much time did you have to read the game before you made this post?

[BigYoshiFan]

YOLO
VOTE: Gamma

The YOLO was unnecessary and feels like a "don't judge me" safeguard.

Okay so TwoFace is a double voter for real
I'm going to tr him until I see reason to think otherwise.

@Gamma
This post is worth voting you for.

Okay so TwoFace is a double voter for real
I'm going to tr him until I see reason to think otherwise.

@Gamma
This post is worth voting you for.

For real? What's so scummy about it?

Tbf, in retrospect, it isn't as bad as I was originally thinking; just kinda felt the townread was a bit off....
Also:
UNVOTE:

I feel like this is indirectly shading TF

someone tell me when something interesting happens....

Like Titus's replacement getting lynched.....

Seems to not care about actually evaluating the Titusslot beyond the point where he scumread her.

@TwoFace, Why not?
UNVOTE: fitz

He claimed FULL watcher. You do realize how op watcher is in general for town?

It's far more likely to be in scum hands than town.

Watcher is about equivalent to Cop in power, and I feel Ircher should know this.

These points of his on Ircher, though, I feel are pretty decent.

[BigYoshiFan]

Tier list

PenguinPower, TwoFace, Kelvin Smith, RayFrost
MarioManiac4
Ircher, BigYoshiFan, MMM
Gamma Emerald

vote: Gamma Emerald

Why do you have such a comprehensive list so soon after replacing

I still really dislike this post, like it's bad shade-throwing or something. I don't understand why this is an issue. Also, he says "so soon." How much time did you have to read the game before you made this post?

Not enough to realize Priscila replaced Tarkus and not Kelvin

Mmmmmm, okay, but still.

[BigYoshiFan]

Are we massclaiming?

I was somewhat anticipating a PR claim with this.

[BigYoshiFan]

Odd-Night Cop, Even-Night Jailkeeper
One action a night, sounds reasonable.

[BigYoshiFan]

Town has Odd-Night Cop, Even-Night Jailkeeper, Two-Shot Gunsmith, Miller Doublevoter.
Scum so far has a Two-shot Roleblocker.

I just wanted to put all of these together.

[BigYoshiFan]

and VT claims from me and gamma

[BigYoshiFan]

We probably have all the town PR's outted now, should we finish the massclaim?

[BigYoshiFan]

You were next in line, and Ircher claimed PR.

In line for what

His vote.
VOTE: Gamma Emerald

[BigYoshiFan]

Now it's time to chill. If we wanna talk stupid, I thought the --> lists were for lynches and not claims.

[BigYoshiFan]

K
VOTE: gamma

Mod, PenguinPower voted Gamma Emerald

Fixed

[BigYoshiFan]

Cool cool cool.
Gamma, who do you scumread now?

[BigYoshiFan]

Also, I seriously want everyone to claim now. We have all the Town PRs out most likely.

[BigYoshiFan]

And traitors

[BigYoshiFan]

Now it's time to chill. If we wanna talk stupid, I thought the --> lists were for lynches and not claims.

They are. I am waiting for MMM to claim, then I will claim.

And Kelvin's replacement.

[BigYoshiFan]

Before we end the day, wait for a replacement. Lol, that quoted post wasn't necessary.

[BigYoshiFan]

Warning: This post will be Setup Speculation™ because I'm bad at scumhunting.
uhhh ok so I could see this;
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Town Miller Doublevoter
Town 2-Shot Gunsmith
Town Odd-Night Cop
Town Even-Night Doctor
scum
scum
Mafia 2-Shot Roleblocker
---
^ if you have a role that makes this setup false
you absolutely need to claim now
otherwise I'm calling {Kelvin, Ircher, RayFrost, PP} as all town so scum has to be between {Gamma, MMM, Priscila} with an outside chance of scumdoc PP or even scumtraitor i guess
but i read tarkus as hardtown because I understood his entire view of the game (priscila is largely null)
I'm leaning scum on MMM but it's clear nobody wants to wagon him
Gamma could well be scum (just from gut, I did say I was a bad mafia player- heed my warnings ) and also opportunism is optimal as town so that's where I'm voting today

I feel left out.

[BigYoshiFan]

This mass claim would not even happen if not for me. I want everyone's reads on me, right now.

Lean-town.

There were some things I didn't like regarding you.

I am genuinely confused as to how I can come out with my first content as a tier list and a vote and people call that opportunistic?

Here, it felt like you were playing the innocent and naive card.

Your surprising attention to detail during RVS threw me off, but your catchup later pretty much nullifies this.
I didn't particularly like your townread on me for "keeping the peace" per se, because it seemed like a pretty shallow read and I'd probably do it whether I was scum or not, because conflicts like that don't create a fun or cormfortable atmosphere.

But there were more important things I did like.

You point out things from an objective perspective; you have both positive and negative things about each player, which makes me comfortable because doesn't feel like you're trying to force out reads. You're attention to possible partners and busses, and that they're reasonable and original reads, give me town vibes. And overall, and I think I'm stealing your words here, but it feels like an organic thought process.

[BigYoshiFan]

So, how convincing is RayFrost's claim to you, Priscila?

[BigYoshiFan]

Wait, what?

[BigYoshiFan]

Oh, I missed that. Hmmmm.