Mini Normal 1914 - Sunshine Mafia - Game Over

[TwoFace]

Sup

[TwoFace]

VOTE: ingeel

Let's get this wagon started right.
Let's get this wagon started quickly.

[TwoFace]

why do you need tips on playstyles LaL?

[TwoFace]

The people who know him should chime in on my assumptions so we can move out of this phase.

why would this be necessary?

[TwoFace]

The people who know him should chime in on my assumptions so we can move out of this phase.

why would this be necessary?

My answer was in the post you quoted, I just wanted a reason to get out of RVS.

I get wanting to get out of rvs but why would you want to hear from people who known him? like what purpose would that serve? it wouldn't help determine alignment so I don't understand why you would want input from these people.

[TwoFace]

I like the vote on dragon, keep up the good work mario

[TwoFace]

I wanted to gauge their responses and it breeds discussion.

right but not all discussions are useful, and the one you were hoping for is an example of that.

doing something just for the sake of doing it comes off as fake and unnatural.

ending rvs for the sake of rvs and generating discussions for the sake of generating discussions are 2 examples of that.

I don't really understand why you felt the need to do either and somehow I don't think I will get an acceptable answer so I will just end this discussion

[TwoFace]

VOTE: dragon

[TwoFace]

Why are you not answering my questions? I'll vote when you answer them. Deal?

this is bad

[TwoFace]

I mean everything recently from you is bad but that particularly is worse

[TwoFace]

if that was at me, I just did.

[TwoFace]

There's more than just that, though. Mario made a firm stance on LaLight and instantly backed off to put half-hearted pressure on me without countering why I felt his vote was misplaced.

I actually think mario's vote on you is more serious than his vote on light. I definitely don't think it is "half-hearted" if he is asking others to vote you (and they totally should btw)

For somebody who was looking at how ingeel reacted to the votes on him, you clearly missed the point of mario's vote on light. Also if you honestly think any player has a solid scum read on somebody on page 2, I suggest you stick to the newbie que until you learn how people do things on this site.

[TwoFace]

and i'm pretty sure you are an alt now which makes me more suspicious of you for playing dumb

[TwoFace]

Why is this so bad?

because 45 was very bad and him holding his vote until mario answers them is even worse.

[TwoFace]

You and LaLight are my town-reads as of now.

[TwoFace]

I don't know how to feel about him coming onto me because in one regard he thinks I'm an alt and in the other he says I should go back to the newbie queue

interesting that you only mention these when neither of these are why I scum read you...

[TwoFace]

For somebody who was looking at how ingeel reacted to the votes on him, you clearly missed the point of mario's vote on light

dragon, how can you look at a player's reactions to votes on him and not realize that mario saying light is scum is probably made with the intentions of getting a reaction from light (and probably others like your reaction lol)

[TwoFace]

Also making a liar out of myself by viewing this thread again,

I guess that would be the 2nd time for those not counting, though your 1st lie is more egregious...

[TwoFace]

way to leap to the page top frogger

[TwoFace]

maybe you like this one better?

What do you call the security outside of a Samsung Store?

Spoiler:

Guardians of the Galaxy.

[TwoFace]

nah, there was a game where one player had to write a bunch of bad puns. there were way worse in that one lol

[TwoFace]

damn, now I want to make a riddler Alt

[TwoFace]

Well to be fair he thinks scum doesn't want to be the center of attention and he was starting to become the center of attention right around the time he said he was going to "be around later to see hoe the thread develops" which to me basically says "I'm going to lurk and avoid interacting with people for a while"

[TwoFace]

*how not hoe

[TwoFace]

I don't think any scum ever has the intention of getting into fights early, but having seen scum get pressure because of a bad entry into the game, things just happen.

[TwoFace]

Literally every time a person who hasn't voted posts without a vote you go berzerk

Why is that a problem?

[TwoFace]

I had something in mind but I'm just not gonna say it. I always get shot down when i say stuff.

You should never be afraid to say stuff

[TwoFace]

Jordar. Why didn't you answer my question about what was wrong with what Mario was doing?

[TwoFace]

Hmm

[TwoFace]

You mean when I said Mario I would vote if he answered my questions and then proceeded not to? Do you believe in LAL that much?

Yes and
Absolutely yes

[TwoFace]

And that hmm is huge. A player is refusing to answer my question. He's now my 2nd scum read after you.

I honestly don't understand why more people don't have an issue with it. Refusing to answer game related questions is very bad

[TwoFace]

I find that hard to believe, really.

Which part?

[TwoFace]

And that hmm is huge. A player is refusing to answer my question. He's now my 2nd scum read after you.

I honestly don't understand why more people don't have an issue with it. Refusing to answer game related questions is very bad

Some questions aren't very well thought out or are completely pointless to the person who is asking it, either because it's been answered before or it just doesn't seem beneficial for the other party. I think Jord just has cold feet and I feel you are overlooking that and only considering one perspective.

He said something I didn't agree with or understand.

I ask him to explain why he felt the way he felt

He refused.

If he's town he should be transparent. Refusing to answer a relevant question not once but twice raises red flags to me. It should raise flags to anyone else who is town.

My question wasn't about something stupid like yours were so he should have answered

[TwoFace]

TwoFace, how do you feel about the other players who have not been answering questions when asked, such as TrueGent? Why is Jord the only exception in your eyes?

Didn't realize others had. Jord is different cause he ignored mine and it was an attempt got him to explain himself and let me read him better. Refusing means he's hiding something

[TwoFace]

I find that hard to believe, really.

Which part?

All of it. I think you're being petty about your read on me, especially when I clarified why I acted in the way I did towards Mario. I only made that post about saying that I would vote if he answered my questions to goad him into furthering our interaction. Is subtlety completely lost on you? That's a rhetorical question.

Well that's how I feel. I don't really care about why you did what you did, because the act itself wasn't townie. Your reason for it was weak anyway. I haven't see anything from you yet that makes me think you are town

[TwoFace]

My job isn't to impress you. It's to lynch scum which is what I'm trying to do.

[TwoFace]

My job isn't to impress you. It's to lynch scum which is what I'm trying to do.

Sounds like something everyone in this game tries to do, and that includes pretending to do so. This is gonna go anywhere so if you wanna keep tunneling me so be it, I don't really mind it coming down to the wire between us if neither of our opinions change.

Well since I've been scum hunting and you haven't people know who's really pretending. I'm a tunnelr and I usually get my way so may as well go sign up for another game cause I don't see you making it past day 1

[TwoFace]

So dragon basically scum reads me for my play style

[TwoFace]

That is again a pretty general statement that anyone could make, including scum. Tell me - are you gonna keep this same opinion up all game until I am dead?

Yes because my opinion is actually a pretty accurate interpretation of what's happened thus far.

[TwoFace]

Btw if somebody says something that doesn't make sense. The logical thing to do is ask questions to try and understand it.

That's what I tried to do with Jordan and he refused to answer.

If I've said stuff that doesn't make sense, why haven't you asked me to explain it?

Seems like somebody who's interested in figuring out people's alignments would have a more inquisitive mindset...

[TwoFace]

If that were the case I would've said that, or more importantly, I would be holding players like TrueGent or Mario to the same standard as you. I don't however because playstyles aren't always indicative and it's more about what's being siad and the content being produced, and in this case I've been pretty clear in how I don't like yours.

Pretty much everything you've said about me and why you think I'm scum are things that are part of my play style. You've provided nothing that is actually alignment indicative.


You don't like me. I get that. But that doesn't make me scum.

[TwoFace]

I think you're being very hypocritical, moreso even a bit dense. I've been trying to understand your mindset further this whole time but you haven't really offered me any development in your read, which isn't good. This a main problem I have with you, because when I try to explain myself or tell you why I do something, it either just doesn't register for you or you seem to not really offer a counter-argument. When I told you my reason for not voting because of Mario, you simply responded with "That's how I feel, deal with it". I don't really want to keep someone around who can't at the least be humble enough to respond to me when I give them an answer.

I'd like to know how exactly I have been hypocritical. please explain that to me, or better yet provide examples.

moving on.

You say I haven't offered you any development in my read. I am not really sure what that means but I have said I scum read you and pointed out the things from you i find scummy. I am not sure what else you expect me to do but I have fulfilled my obligations.

When you tell me why you do something, I process that in my mind very simply. I ask myself "would a townie do that?" If yes I accept the answer. If no i don't accept the answer. You have done multiple things that I don't really see coming from a townie and your explanations don't really seem believable to me.

Now you say I don't offer a counter-argument, but that isn't my responsibility to do that. Why would i offer a counter argument to your reasons for doing something?

Now I want to get to a very serious issue here. I absolutely hate liars. you know what i hate even more than liars? people who lie about me. I have NEVER said "that's how I feel, deal with it".

I also think you may be confusing me with somebody because this statement isn't referring to me

" I don't really want to keep someone around who can't at the least be humble enough to respond to me when I give them an answer."

because I asked you a question in post 31 and you responded back, and I responded back to you and we actually had a discussion which continued until post 47 so clearly I am not guilty of it there

I asked you a question in 81 and instead of answering my question you sort of avoided giving me a response by pointing to earlier posts you made which really wasn't a satisfactory answer and since I felt like you were purposely ignoring me and i was already scum reading you, I just moved on cause my question wasn't really that important.

After those I think I have responded to you appropriately so that would be 2 false accusations towards me.

[TwoFace]

I've already spent enough effort trying to understand you more

have you though? I don't really see you trying to have a conversation with me. I don't really see you asking me questions to better understand me.

only answers that include "I really like tunneling" "Deal with it"

neither of these words came out of my mouth, the one that is close to the truth is where I said I am a tunneler but that was not in response to any questions you asked me. I am a very reasonable person. if you ask me questions or ask me to explain my thinking I am going to respond to you.

and taking Cooperative Sheep's opinion about me and trying to spin it into your argument about how I only don't like your playstyle, which, by the way, I already denied and gave a reason as to why.

the reasons why you scum read me are things that are part of my playstyle though. Here are your "reasons why"

I think his posts have mostly either been indistinguishable fluff

1. indistinguishable fluff isn't scummy, it isn't alignment indicative, and considering I am always one of the top posters of every game I play in, it is my playstyle. I like to post, scratch that. I like to post ALOT. I have a job that i am good at which gives me plenty of down time AND I have a smart phone which I am addicted to. i have 2 addictions. Running and mafia so I post fluff sometimes, scratch that, a lot of times.

hardheaded assurance in himself that doesn't really make a lot of sense to me.

2. I am hard headed. Ask anyone who has ever played with me and they will tell you that. If i say something that doesn't make sense to you, you should really ask me to explain it. if you don't, then you don't get the right to complain about it.

general uncooperative behavior

my playstyle

focusing on one point instead of considering others

again my playstyle. In fact it is so much my playstyle I included instructions on in my signature on how to stop me from tunneling. Off memory only 1 person has successfully been able to stop one of my tunnels.

I'd like to think most town are open minded, even to a small extent

I actually am though. Just because you haven't seen it yet doesn't mean that I am not. The fact is nobody has provided information that makes me doubt myself and until that happens, i am fine sticking with my reads.

So you can sit there and say you aren't attacking me for my playstyle, every single reason directly matches my playstyle.

[TwoFace]

In #83, I responded to his claims about me seemingly not noticing Mario's intention about LaLight, in which I told him I did. His response to me was simply egging on the point that I lied in the interaction I made with mario, as evidenced in the quote I responded to.

In #151, I asked him if he believes LAL is the definitive answer to everything, as my interpretation of his vote is that I was deemed as such therefore scum. He response to that was pretty much the same, and what I got out of it is that somehow someone genuinely believes that LAL is a definitive answer always, which I found to hard to believe...which is why I said that. I'm sorry if I seem a bit sarcastic or maybe even a bit annoyed, but I'm not sure how else I can make myself clear.

in #156 I wanted to know more about his Jord read therefore I offered an alternative to it, given that I stated my opinion on him. The only thing I got out of it is that he disagreed on a fundamental level, and if you really want to make the argument that someone is only giving grief to players based on playstyle, you could say that's TwoFace. His problem with Jord was only that he didn't answer his question therefore he was hiding something, and when I told him that perhaps he should consider a different perspective, the conversation didn't last long and he switched his focus purely back on me. He didn't seem interested in talking furhter about it so that begs the question where his priorities lay. Are me and Jord scum together? Are all people who don't answer questions scum? These are things I can't really answer and only TwoFace can, but the fact remains he really hasn't and I don't believe that is town behavior. If you still believe my argument is based on a playstyle I don't know what else to tell you.

RE: 83 - Your response to my question about not noticing mario's intention didn't answer my question. I basically asked you how you did not notice that mario was clearly trying to get reactions and you pointed me to posts you made about generating discussion. That didn't answer my question.

What I wanted to know is how can you be a person who is interested in looking at reactions not notice that what mario did was clearly a post designed to get reactions.

RE: 151 - I answered your question about LAL honestly so i am not sure what your issue is with that. I don't think townies should ever lie. I certainly never do. I think scum need to lie as little as possible. I am all about honesty and once you prove you are a dishonest person i think you are scum. I am naive in thinking town won't lie, because that is how I play so the moment you lied i knew you were scum.

RE: 156 - You came to Jord's defense. how is that an attempt to learn more about my read. Jord made a comment which casted shade on another player. I asked jord to explain his thoughts why he thought mario's actions were suspicious. he refused to answer not once but twice. i don't really see a townie doing that and I explained that to you. So if anything that exchange should have actually accomplished what you were hoping for. If you still don't understand my scum read on jordan, feel free to ask me more questions.

[TwoFace]

I have NEVER said "that's how I feel, deal with it".

I find that hard to believe, really.

Which part?

All of it. I think you're being petty about your read on me, especially when I clarified why I acted in the way I did towards Mario. I only made that post about saying that I would vote if he answered my questions to goad him into furthering our interaction. Is subtlety completely lost on you? That's a rhetorical question.

Well that's how I feel.

I don't really care about why you did what you did, because the act itself wasn't townie. Your reason for it was weak anyway. I haven't see anything from you yet that makes me think you are town

My job isn't to impress you. It's to lynch scum which is what I'm trying to do.

Sounds like something everyone in this game tries to do, and that includes pretending to do so. This is gonna go anywhere so if you wanna keep tunneling me so be it, I don't really mind it coming down to the wire between us if neither of our opinions change.

Well since I've been scum hunting and you haven't people know who's really pretending.

I'm a tunnelr and I usually get my way so may as well go sign up for another game cause I don't see you making it past day 1

If we are being technical here, I never said "deal with it"

but come on bro, that conversation was about you saying you don't believe me when I said I believe in LAL. What am i supposed to do? Do you really want me to link you to past games for you to believe me? You accuse me of lying and I basically say this is how I feel and you want to use that against me?

[TwoFace]

He could very well be a ponce, but I think even ponces have humility, yknow? I think that even the most dense town have some sort of reasoning behind their actions or at the least are willing to consider that maybe they are wrong. I am mostly definitely open to this idea because I don't ever assume that my reads are extremely accurate or what I'm saying is pristine. My join date is misleading and I guess in some instances you can call me an alt, but only by how long I've played Mafia. The games I played back in 2012 weren't my best nor did I put a huge effort into them, and I did have some one-offs on another account in 2010.

1. let's leave the name calling out of this ok?

2. I have no humility. I am the guy who even after a player I think is scum flips town blames the player for playing terrible and not acting like a townie should. if a player gets mis lynched it isn't town's fault. it is that player's fault. unless I am the one mis lynched and then it is totally town's fault.

3. I have reasons for my actions. I have made those reasons clear in the game so I am confused why you say that I don't have them when I have been pretty transparent

[TwoFace]

TwoFace, let me just say you're gonna get nowhere trying to tell me that all my arguments are about your playstyle. Everyone has a certain playstyle but you cannot say with confidence that anyone who has a problem with you is purely based on your playstyle. Mafia wouldn't be all that great to play if any time you had a read on someone or a disagreement on the way they are presenting themselves, their arguments, or even demeanor, they simply said "It's just my playstyle." A playstyle is not an excuse to deflect accusations, nor is it conductive or providing any insight further as to why you're innocent. I told you before that a lot of things you're saying are things scum could say, and I still stick to that. You'll find you will get a lot more out of people by not feeling you need to defend yourself in the way you play the game and justifying yourself and instead of choosing to be more productive and showing people why your arguments and way you are handling things is good.

1. I am just stating facts. Literally every reason you have for why you scum read me are things that I am guilty of doing in every game I play in. I am not saying that to deter you from voting me though. If you want to lynch me for those things, that's perfectly fine with me but don't expect me to change how I am playing.

2. I can say 100% with confidence that every issue people have ever had with me have been because of my playstyle.

3. I don't think I have deflected any accusations though. If anything I probably agree with the issues you have with me. But those issues don't make me scum. They don't make anyone scum because they aren't scummy behaviours.

4. Pretty much everything I have said is the truth about you and jordan. So if scum could also say those things and neither of you are town, I would strongly suggest you do better to change people's opinions and play better.

5. Please don't give me advice on how to play mafia and I have already explained why my arguments are they way they are and nobody has really asked me any followups outside of you so I think others get where i am coming from.

[TwoFace]

your posts 43 and 49 don't answer my original question. clearly there is a disconnect with you so i will do what I did earlier and just move on. in the big picture it really doesn't matter

[TwoFace]

Third point, yes, I came to his seemingly "defense" but I offered you to think about it differently. I told you that he perhaps had cold feet. I feel right now if you are town, we simply have dissenting opinions and you don't like that. Do you disagree about my assumption on a fundamental level or is there something more? All you said is that he didn't answer your question therefore he is scummy.

He said sometimes he is afraid to post stuff
I told him he should never be afraid to post stuff.

townies should never be afraid to explain themselves. he cast shade on somebody and when asked to explain why he thinks it is scummy he doesn't want to.

i don't see why a townie would deny people information like that and because he did I find it extremely scummy. Townies need to be transparent. Not wanting to be transparent raises red flags

[TwoFace]

TwoFace, you are currently at 48 posts and I am at 46. I have spent more then half of my postcount trying to argue with you (I had 21 posts before this) , which is far too many posts to do so. Maybe it's my mistake by responding to you, but this isn't productive. Why is it that everytime I say "I don't like repeating myself" I end up doing it? Sucks.

here is some free advice.

1. read my sig. there is some useful stuff in there.
2. if you don't want to repeat yourself, don't repeat yourself.

[TwoFace]

In post 45, Dragnalus wrote:
I'm not really feeling your pressure right now, moreso I just find myself questioning your stances thus far. Hypothetically speaking, can me and LaLight be in the same team? What do I gain out of defending him after you applied pressure?

Townie post(actively asking questions, searching for answers, etc)

@ Ingeel

I am not understanding how you think this is a townie post.

1. the hypothetical question makes no sense to even ask because nobody was even suggesting they were scum together.
2. the 2nd question is equally bad because nobody was saying Dragon was suspicious for defending LaLight. Not to mention at the time I didn't even consider dragon's actions to be defending light.
3. These questions were asked by dragon (the scum read) to Mario (the person who scum read him) and even a scum player would/should ask his accuser questions.

so the asking questions/seeking answers is null. the fact that these questions were pointless'/bad and later held his vote hostage until he got answers to them make him incredibly anti-town in my opinion.

[TwoFace]

Don't see scum making this post

Nothing in that post is alignment indicative though. Aside from the slight mud slinging, scum could very easily make a post like that.

[TwoFace]

Also town

again why?

I have seen scum make posts like that before.

[TwoFace]

before you leave answer my question

[TwoFace]

normally i'd say no but in this case since dragon is probably scum I will say yes.

[TwoFace]

well you really aren't making an effort which is troublesome if you want me to think you are town

[TwoFace]

well you really aren't making an effort which is troublesome if you want me to think you are town

I dont wanna read walls man

me neither. you can skim. you can pressure somebody you think is scum.

please there are enough bad players on this site. if you are town pick it up or leave. I have a low tolerance for laziness.

[TwoFace]

Join a non-Newbie game again in a year when you're a big lad.

best advice for all new players imo

[TwoFace]

I'm null on MM or twoface since he seems locked into this battle with Drag

I feel like you should be able to develop something more than null on me. I am trying to lynch my top scum read so that should give you either town or scum vibes

[TwoFace]

Shocker lol

[TwoFace]

I do reads based on two things: Motivation and Authenticity. Motivation: 1) Are you doing things that fit scum play 2) Are you looking at things from a townie light? Authenticity: Do you believe in what you are saying?

I call bs. Cause if you are going this honestly I should be a town read

[TwoFace]

Oh and gent to an extent. Mario/Twoface/Gent

So everyone voting drag...

Hilarious

[TwoFace]

Honestly I really like your response to this. I will explain my scumreads on Mario, GEnt, and you in a bit. But I think this is a natural reaction for town!twoface to have.

VOTE: Mario

tbh I am happier here

Drag is getting lynched today. Not Mario and definitely not me. You speak of honesty but you are the one being dishonest here.

Thanks for confirming my suspicion on your slot. Love catching 2 scum in one day.

[TwoFace]

aww man now I hope you are actually town. I don't think you are but that post you just made is my ace up my sleeve in future games if you actually are. If you're scum you made me lol.

[TwoFace]

What? lol

You did what's called the amished tell. Criticizing your predecessor is considered by a bunch of people as a legitimate scum tell. I personally don't think it's a good tell but I can't really remember seeing someone do it and as town.

If you're town you've confirmed my theory that town would also do it(cause I certainly would if I felt someone I replaced was scummy) but I'll have a 2nd example

If you are scum you've hurt my future arguments

[TwoFace]

Don't really want to get into the whole amished tell thing cause I'm against it personally

[TwoFace]

I'll read it when I get home. You'll need something convincing to make me do 180s on 2 people. It's happened before but rare.

[TwoFace]

What policy?

[TwoFace]

Ok...

[TwoFace]

Did you really just ask the person you are voting to sheep you on somebody else?

[TwoFace]

But you don't really have good reasons for mush.

And after I ridiculed your original scum list you have now sense abandoned it.

Neither really make much sense from a town perspective

[TwoFace]

Since you suspected the 3 people who were voting dragon. Why do you think he's town?

[TwoFace]

The goal is to get rid of mafia though. Not to make them great. Scum claim?

Btw I'm not toxic nor are my reads shit.

seriously don't replace in knowing I'm here and attempt to ruin the game with a policy lynch. If you don't like me stay away from me. Don't fuck up frogger's game cause you have a grudge (which btw is against site rules )

[TwoFace]

I'll let the site mods sort it out.

Admitting you haven't even read the game is basically admitting your vote is a grudge vote.

[TwoFace]

TwoFace why are you townreading mush?

I'm not

[TwoFace]

TwoFace why are you townreading mush?

I'm not

Wagon with me or not?

You're still my 2nd highest scum read so no

[TwoFace]

Policy Lynching someone is when you lynch someone because their play is anti-town.

And my play has never been considered antitown cause every game I play in I push for my scum reads to be lynched which is very much pro-town

But that's not what you said originally. You said I'm toxic which is untrue but also implies you have a a bias against me which proves you have a grudge.

I've reported you to the site mods so it'll be up to them to decide but you keep giving me evidence to support the rule violation.

If you want to talk about toxic players. Your contribution to this game is very much an example of Toxic play. You come in and pick a fight with me and I don't even know who the heck you even are. Which makes this bizarre

[TwoFace]

TwoFace why are you townreading mush?

I'm not

Wagon with me or not?

You're still my 2nd highest scum read so no

Why again?

Wel I was already scum reading your predecessor for refusing to explain himself on 2 different occasions and then you come in and give this whole post explaining what you use to decide how to scum read somebody which I determined is false given the reads you come in with.

You haven't really done a good job explaining your reads and I really don't see anything from
You that's impressed me.

[TwoFace]

Well, how else would you like me to explain my reads?
Besides this, what scum motivation would I have for not explaining my reads?
What scum motivation would Jordarrian have for not answering your questions?
What scum motivation would I have for lying about how I read?
What scum motivation woild I have to attack unconventional people like Mario?
What scum motivation woild I have for detailing out the scummy posts in the begging I saw with Mario?
What scum motivation would I have for changing votes when I realized my first impression was wrong?
Whay scum motivation would I have for not impressing you?

1. Scum can't scum hunt so explaining reads leaves a trail that can be tracked later. It's harder to keep your lies straight and sound convincing if you are doing a good job explaining things.
2. Same as 1
3. To make yourself sound good
4. Cause I could actually see people considering Mario. He's trying to tunne like I do but he's not on my level.
5. To make yourself look like you are scum hunting
6. To make yourself look town and infallible
7. I actually think you are trying to impress me. Explaining your read on Mario and trying to ge me to vote with you are clear attempts to get me to change my read on you. Unfortunately what you've added isn't good enough yet.

[TwoFace]

Okay, I skimmed TwoFace ISO.
A better, improved TwoFace from what I read in Shaz's game, Mudkip's game a long time ago, and better then Fatboy TwoFace.
I can work with this

Unfortunately I doubt you'll be around very long.

[TwoFace]

My gut says dragon/Jordan are a team. I have a possible 3rd member but im not that sure of it so I want to see how things progress.

[TwoFace]

Everytime I type dragn it changes to dragon.

With dragon all I have to do is type dra and it suggests dragon for me.

If it really bothers you I'll make sure to type dragn.

[TwoFace]

If this dragn lynch doesn't happen I'm going to be really pissed off

[TwoFace]

Prepare to be pissed, the lynchability of that slot feels very low,

Why? He's legitimately scummy. I haven't seen him do anything that resembles town play and his early antics were down right terrible. I haven't seen anyone else provide better reasoning for somebody else.

which reminds me. You've made a bunch of posts. Some that I felt like you were possibly scum reading that slot, but you still have your rvs vote cast. Who are you scum reading and why?

[TwoFace]

How, exactly?

For starters instead of letting the game progress naturally he did things to try and force the game unaturally (getting out of rvs and forcing useless discussion) both of which are typically looked at as protown behavior when they are done by people naturally. Forcing it for town cred falls into the LAMIST category and is very scummy.

Second he acts like he knows what he's talking about with reguards to looking for reactions yet any see the obvious attempt by Mario to get reactions.

When I asked drag how he didn't notice it was a post designed to get reactions since he was looking for them himself earlier he keeps dodging the question and diverting me back to the posts where he said he was trying to generate discussion which 1. Doesn't answer my question and 2. Doesn't make any sense

Drag acts poorly to mario's vote. He tries to cast shade on Mario implying that his vote on LAL was serious and acting like it was suspicious he switched. Not a good reaction from him.

He then goes on to ask Mario 2 pointless questions (aka busy work and fake scum hunting).

He doubles down on these fake scum hunting questions and says he refuses to vote until they are answered (not only antitown but scummy as fuck)

Once the questions are answers renigs and doesn't vote. (Liars die asap)

He says earlier that scum doesn't like to have a lot of attention on them and during the time when he has the most attention says he's going to stay away from the game for a while. That imo is hiding due to fear.

He goes on and basically describes my play style to a tee and votes me but says he's not voting me for my play style

He asks me if I believe in LAL, I say yes, he says he doesn't believe me (btw I can prove I do) and I say "well
That's how I feel" and he uses that against me in a negative light as well as adding some extra words to make what I said seem worse than it actually was.

He never once takes the time to verify if I'm telling the truth which he could easily do if he searched past games.

And now negative attention is being cast onto mush so he pops up, drops a vote without any reason and makes another excuse about being busy.

So yeah lynch drag. I'm not voting anyone else except maybe Jordan's replacement who I really think is his partner.

[TwoFace]

By voting him and encouraging the change of Dragnalus' manifesto, we can forge a better Sunshine Town! Thank you in advance!

I'm not the 'good play' police.
I'm starting to think Drag is stubborn/blind town more than manipulative/not scumhunting scum.

Wanna vote Ingeel or Gentleman instead?

What I don't understand sheep is earlier you say you don't see town motivation in drag's posts. You include him in your lynch pool, you counter argue other people who try and show why he's town and then bam
A 180 out of the blue for being stubborn/blind?

Your read progression doesn't make sense. Btw it's super easy to fake stubborn as scum so I don't buy your 180 due to stubbornness especially after your earlier posts against him.

[TwoFace]

My angle is trying to understand your 180. Since you never really pushed him and haven't voted him it's would not be called bussing. It's called distancing. I don't even know what game you are talking about so without a refresher I don't remember your bussing skills.

[TwoFace]

mod, VC please?

Thanks

[TwoFace]

I don't have any theories actually. I'm just trying to understand how you did this 180.

The only other person who has backed off drag is Mario. Gent replaced out.

So who are these others who did a 180?

[TwoFace]

not the policy lynch itself; the fact they Alisae came here fiercely with policy lynch and then this stance disappeared

It's probably knows he's getting in trouble so he had to back off.

[TwoFace]

*because

[TwoFace]

You're taking my general statement of 'people have gone 180' and then applying a false limiter to it, that claims I was only talking about reads on Drag only - which I indicated at no point in anything I said.

I wrongly assumed you were talking about drag. My apologies

[TwoFace]

How am I being so confusing in my amazing 180? Like, specifically, what's so strange, unusual, inexplicable, et al about it?

When you say you can't see town motivation in his posts, say you would lynch him, and even disagree with people who try to explain why they town read him and magically think he's town for a weak reason. That's suspicious as hell.

Why? Cause it just is. The no town motivation hasn't magically become untrue. There is still no town motivation for his actions. The logical conclusion thing you disagreed with still is valid also.

You dropped your read cause you think he's stubborn (your word) which isn't alignment indicative. If you don't have better reasons then 100000% yes it's suspicious cause you need to be able to show town thinking. You haven't and I don't even think you can cause he hasn't had any.

Maybe drag is actually town and you backed off cause he's not the flavor of the month anymore or maybe you are scum together. I don't really know.

I know drag is probably scum, I'd say 95% lock at this point and you backing off without good reasons is highly suspicious

[TwoFace]

Unpopular opinion(I think) but I feel that MarioVDragnalus is TvT. Both of their reactions have felt genuine and both are arguing from a town perspective

You think so?
How would you describe Drag's 'town perspective'? Specifically the refusal to vote until answers are provided to a question after he was asked to vote thing (and then still not doing it - or anything - with the answer once received).
Because I've got nothing there - what do you see?

So you didn't see town perspective.

Do you now? If yes PLEASE explain cause I still don't because there isn't any. If not then how can you justify calling him town despite doing something that had no town perspective?

[TwoFace]

And that last link. How can you make a huge post arguing against somebody's reads and now basically be on the same side. What you posted in that post I find myself agreeing with. To call him town now is basically saying you were wrong in that post and I don't think you were.

[TwoFace]

If you sum them up you get - "was scumhunting very poorly and with a lack of logic"

There is no way those 3 links add up to this statement in your mind. If you say it does then you were being dishonest in 2/3 of those links you provided.

Not seeing town perspective (which you basically admitted to) =/= scum hunting poorly

Not seeing the logical progression of his conclusion that you actual verbally disagreed with somebody else about =/= scum hunting poorly either.

Ignore all the other things I've posted, just those 2 instances alone is enough to say he is definitively scum.

[TwoFace]

I feel the posts I just made basically answered all your questions. And now I've got a 4th scum read.

[TwoFace]

I'm using the same awareness about you to justify your empty tunnel.

Now why do you have to go and lie about me? I've provided multiple reasons for my scum read so to say it's empty is a blatant lie.

[TwoFace]

Your smoke is entirely based on the concept that you are correct -

No. It's that you have said things that you believe to be true which reinforces a scum read and have now basically taken back that scum read despite all those things still being true.

It's like giving a list of reasons why somebody is scum but town reading them despite those reasons.

It makes no sense from a town perspective.

[TwoFace]

I feel the posts I just made basically answered all your questions. And now I've got a 4th scum read.

Considering your ability to push your top one, I'd say I'm safe for a while

And on that note I'll step away cause I've been warned about my language and this type of provoking post could get me site banned if I responded the way I want.

Not lynching drag is basically saying you are ok with a player doing blatantly scummy behavior and no legitimate scum hunting and have made very few (if any) posts that have a town perspective or motivation behind them

Town can't win that way. It's frustrating. Why am I the only one who wants to win?

Smh

[TwoFace]

v/la for the weekend

[TwoFace]

I'm pretty sure your top 2 scumreads are town, TwoFace

So you have issues with drag joining a growing wagon without any reasons for it? He said he'd post some later and it's later and still nothing.

Obviously I'm biased but he's not really given any actual game related reasons for either of his votes. His vote on me was omgus/he hates my play style.

So humor me. Show me 5 pro town posts he's made and explain why they are town and not scum pretending to be town.

Because I honestly feel like you two are a scum together.

[TwoFace]

Should say "so you have no isssues"

[TwoFace]

@drag. Feel free to ignore me. I honestly don't mind cause tbh this game will be more peaceful if you don't talk to me anymore. If you are town you are obviously having trouble scum hunting so maybe if you ignore me you can focus better.

For somebody who supposedly has played mafia for 7 years, I expect way more from you if you are town.

[TwoFace]

The one thing I can say is that I think scum tend to scumread one person at a time and say TvS a lot, not really TvT

I've seen scum say t v t. Saying t v s is too predictable and makes people think you are basically lining up lynches.

[TwoFace]

i encourage people to read Lalight's posts and try and find anything that looks like it is town motivated. @mulch can you answer my question.

can you show me town motivated posts from drag?

[TwoFace]

let's leave the name calling out of this ok?

Apparently you didn't get the memo the first time. Do it again and I'll be forced to report you to the game mod.

Don't insult me again please. In fact just keep my name out of your posts all together.

[TwoFace]

So you have issues with drag joining a growing wagon without any reasons for it? He said he'd post some later and it's later and still nothing.

@ mulch. And now he's abandoned this wagon and in the process lied again since he said he would provide reasons and now he's said he's willing to work with mush (Who he still scum reads) to lynch somebody else and if that person flips town he's coming after mush.

Note. Read what I just said about lining up lynches.


Town doesn't work with scum reads.
Town certainly doesn't vote with their scum reads and put blame on that person instead of taking responsibility for his own actions.

If anyone still reads drag at this point seriously time to take the blinders off.

[TwoFace]

The pushes he has made aren't very strong and there is a lack of conviction in his words

Btw this is one of drag's knocks against mush and it is literally what drag is guilty of

[TwoFace]

sure, I dont really get why hes refusing to vote when he very clearly has reads to push

Can you show me the clear reads you were referring to here?

No he can't.

[TwoFace]

sure, I dont really get why hes refusing to vote when he very clearly has reads to push

Can you show me the clear reads you were referring to here?

No he can't.

LAL then???

I'm down with that. Alisae replaced him so I'll approve an Alisae lynch

[TwoFace]

Vc

Lies

[TwoFace]

Bout 5 minutes

[TwoFace]

Besides, my first gutread when I came in was Mario scum, and those are usually right

It was also saying I was scum and that was wrong...

I imagine if you are town your gut works about as well as a broken clock

[TwoFace]

Sure it is

[TwoFace]

Your read changed on me probably cause you realized you'd get negative attention pushing me since most people town read me. Mario was the safer target for a mislynch.

[TwoFace]

Your read changed on me probably cause you realized you'd get negative attention pushing me since most people town read me. Mario was the safer target for a mislynch.

No I have never been majority scum read once this entire game. Maybe like 1 person but that person is scum. Are you reading the same game as I am?

[TwoFace]

I haven't made any wrong statements and my read on you I'm pretty sure is accurate Af

[TwoFace]

Sorry, I promised myself that on this site I would be nicer than on ToS forums.

What I meant to say: Twoface, I think you may be misguided, because I have proven myself to be in a very townie light. Thanks. I still don't really get why you are scumreading me anyway- care to explain?

You haven't proven that at all. In fact the moment you made this post I knew there was literally no way you could be town.

No townie is going to sheep their scum read to vote another scum read and say "if he flips town" im coming after you next scum read.

If a townie does that, I never want to play with that townie ever again cause that's incredibly poor play.

[TwoFace]

So drag is bad for what he did

You are worse for saying that makes him a perfect townie.

[TwoFace]

Drag hasn't done a single protown thing all game. I've outlined a bunch of stuff and then he goes and does even worse shit.

If you are town then he is clearly buddying you. If he is town you are clearly buddying him.

I honestly think you are both scum together and doing this buddy buddy routine to trick people to think you aren't a team but there is absolutely 0 chance town makes this post when mush is already a scum read.

I think that summarizes everything. Right now I am willing to work with Mush on lynching LaLight, however I do forewarn him that I will likely come for his head in the event that he's town.

Vote: LaLight

[TwoFace]

He's removing himself from the responsibility of his vote and blaming mush.

I'm pretty sure he knows light is town which is why he made that post.

[TwoFace]

And I guess I'm just a tree stump at this point cause my voice and vote are essentially useless this game

[TwoFace]

And that's just more evidence he's probably scum.

[TwoFace]

If a townie does that, I never want to play with that townie ever again cause that's incredibly poor play.

Let's keep threats like this out of the game please

Alisae violates site rules and nothing.

I say what feel true in my heart and I get a warning?

[TwoFace]

This perspective does seem strange. In RVS, meaningless votes do not advance the game. Applying meaningless pressure does not advance the game. Talking does.

Idk if I agree with this. I've seen games advance due to an early rvs wagon. More so than talking about useless topics does. Talking about people's play styles would have stalled the game, not helped it.

[TwoFace]

Up to page 16. Wife just got home so finish the catchup later. Shouldn't take too long.

I was thinking you meant you'd be back the same day...

[TwoFace]

A little bourbon in the bottle does wonders

[TwoFace]

Interesting timing of that v/la.

[TwoFace]

VOTE: IAI
Those reads are terrible.

Is terrible = scummy?

2 of those 4 i am on record saying I agree with so they aren't terrible. And if he thinks you are scummy for them he's a hypocrite cause he should think I'm scummy for agreeing with at least half of them.

[TwoFace]

Interesting timing of that v/la.

I thought so too

Especially when the rules say no v/la for 5 days so instead he does the last 4 of the day phase.

[TwoFace]

Also I feel like you're abusing the fact that TwoFace is tunneling town to just sheep him and get town lynched.
This is shown in that your reads are exactly the same as his.

Pretty sure he just listed sheep as his #4 scum read and I have sheep as a top 2 town read

Drag and mulch are the sunniest people in the game. Please consider voting one of them IAI

[TwoFace]

Cough cough that isn't town mindset cough cough

Qft

[TwoFace]

why are you scumreading one of the most townie players in the game?

He isn't scum reading me. None of his scum list contains townie people.

[TwoFace]

Alisae's posts scream authenticity in my opinion, except for their one vote on Mario.

[TwoFace]

I honestly feel that the only reason why Mario is getting pressured now is he backed off his push of drag and scum are using that to trash him because after that his play went downhill a little. This game would be so much better once we flip drag and get a mafia flip.

[TwoFace]

Townbloc: Mulch, Alisae, I am Innocent, TwoFace

No thanks

[TwoFace]

He eventually came up with scum reads, even said he was willing to work with his #3 scum read to get #1 scum read lynched lol

That's definitely not a townie mentality especially cause he said if it ends in a town flip he's basically blaming his #3 instead of taking responsibility for himself

[TwoFace]

Like I get you want Mario cause you want to protect your scum buddy but literally nothing he's done has scum intent where as EVERYTHING drag has done has scum intent.

[TwoFace]

True. But um..is the #1 scumread Mario? Cause then it's fine lol

No it want. He was scum reading/voting I mush (conveniently enough right after others started to get suspicious of him) and decided to work with mush to vote light. Mush was the only one voting light at the time iirc so that raised a huge red flag. You never sheep a scum read if you are town. You never agree to work with a scum read ever

[TwoFace]

There are 2 things to look for in scum. Motivation (#1) and authenticity (#2, much less). Mario's #2 is lacking hugely.

Drag has scum motivation and absolutely no authenticity yet you town read him.

So that's twice I've caught you not following your own logic

[TwoFace]

lol you know damn well you are drag's buddy. And if you aren't scum and he is, I'll laugh at how terrible you are playing

[TwoFace]

Illogicalness is NAI.

It absolutely is when you are using this logic to determine reads that directly impact the game.

[TwoFace]

Drag's way of finding reads SCREAMS authenticity because they are eerily similar to mine, which are 100% authentic.

His 1st read (me) was omgus and denied it was cause of my playstyle and goes and describes my playstyle as the reasons
His 2nd read (mush) was sheeping others (promised reasons but failed to deliver)
His 3rd read (light) was voting with mush and blaming mush if light flips town.
His 4th read (Mario) was because his scum buddy told him to vote him.

There is no authenticity in ANY of his pushes.

(He may have voted others also but those weren't serious votes which actually add to his lack of authenticity)

[TwoFace]

Illogicalness is NAI.

It absolutely is when you are using this logic to determine reads that directly impact the game.

Nope. In fact, logic is literally based on skill level. Better players=better logic, no matter what their allignment.

So you are a beginner?

[TwoFace]

Also, why do you think I would call Drag my "highest town read" if I was his scumbuddy?

Already explained this earlier.

[TwoFace]

Well...my logic is considered to be bad by many lol, so yes I am bad in that skill level department. But I'm generally good at finding scum so :shrug

So if I assume you are town, I guess you are having an off game?

How many games have you buddies scum before? Besides this one I mean.

[TwoFace]

Btw don't make claims about your accuracy if you can't back them up. You have one completed game on this site and nothing counts from other sites cause of how different site meta is from site to site.

[TwoFace]

Actually no. I'm really annoyed at this game cause nobody wants to lynch you and drag.

[TwoFace]

nobody can even make a convincing argument for why he's scum. That raises a huge red flag for me.

He was an early town read. It does bother me that he changed his read on drag but I really haven't noticed anything that stands out as scummy. When my top 2 scum reads want him gone though, that's enough to say he's probably town.

Until I know drag and your alignment, I'm sticking with my current perspective

[TwoFace]

I mean you want Mario but you keep finding excuses to hop off his wagon. So maybe to and he are actually scum together. But I like my drag/you narrative better.

[TwoFace]

VOTE: MarioFuck it I'll go with my first scum reaction

Alisae if I respond to what you are saying would you even consider me as town? Because when you tunnelled on me in your first catchup post to the point where you would accuse me of lying about myself to gain advantage in an online game, I'm not entirely sure there's any point.

This was the most honest post I have ever seen you write.
Good job.
UNVOTE:

VOTE: Alisae

VOTE: Mario

But actually alisae that post wasn't even that good and you were hard pressing him before, what's up?

VOTE: IaI

Hey buddy, why do you think Mario is town? And why are you scumreading one of the most townie players in the game?

Fair enough. I like your answers UNVOTE:

I think you and Alisae are TvT. And yes, sorry about the harshness. I am much more harsh in my home site but I have tried to make a promise to be nice these days

This says otherwise.

You aren't even voting Mario right now...

[TwoFace]

an obvious meme

[TwoFace]

Anyway if we both are scum then if you vote him then he would be scum and you can deal with me later, right?

I probably won't vote Mario until after I know both your and drag's alignments. I definitely am not voting for him day 1.

[TwoFace]

I'm on my phone so I can't click on all of those but a lot of them aren't really scummy let alone AI.

Like what is the scum intent for these? Couldn't he just as likely be town and do all these things?

I mean the only things I have in the back of my head is 1. Early on he tried to be like me but was a much weaker version, and him backing off his read later when it was clear he wasn't getting lynched was odd and his early push about not voting could easily be LAMIST.

But drag has done things I wouldn't expect any townie to do.

So I won't be joining Mario. I still don't trust you either. Your predecessor was bad and for the most part you have been also.

[TwoFace]

I solved the game pages ago and you called my top scum read the perfect townie and now you think he's scum...

Get the heck out of here with that BS

[TwoFace]

You aren't hopeless, sorry, that was mean. But...you have to look at intent and authenticity for people. Not logic. Scum will always be able to make up logic

So I think a person is authentic when say they look for certain things when scum reading people and actually follow through with those things.

I've seen a player say they do a, b, and c and turn out they don't. Makes me think that person isn't being authentic.

I saw another player scum read somebody and shortly vote with that person while still scum reading them.

That doesn't look authentic to me either.

[TwoFace]

how you can talk about other people being authentic or not being authentic when you haven't been authentic is completely lost on me.

[TwoFace]

Twoface, scum are more likely to focus on one read and not change their mind :/

So is this you saying you think I'm scum?

[TwoFace]

You've posted it twice now. Nobody is going to miss it.

[TwoFace]

If you can scrape up a coherent case for either, I'm interested. Key word being coherent because your iso is kind of hard to read.

I already have. I'm not doing it again cause you can't be bothered to read.

[TwoFace]

Because I'm trying to be a nice guy

Spoiler:

How, exactly?

For starters instead of letting the game progress naturally he did things to try and force the game unaturally (getting out of rvs and forcing useless discussion) both of which are typically looked at as protown behavior when they are done by people naturally. Forcing it for town cred falls into the LAMIST category and is very scummy.

Second he acts like he knows what he's talking about with reguards to looking for reactions yet any see the obvious attempt by Mario to get reactions.

When I asked drag how he didn't notice it was a post designed to get reactions since he was looking for them himself earlier he keeps dodging the question and diverting me back to the posts where he said he was trying to generate discussion which 1. Doesn't answer my question and 2. Doesn't make any sense

Drag acts poorly to mario's vote. He tries to cast shade on Mario implying that his vote on LAL was serious and acting like it was suspicious he switched. Not a good reaction from him.

He then goes on to ask Mario 2 pointless questions (aka busy work and fake scum hunting).

He doubles down on these fake scum hunting questions and says he refuses to vote until they are answered (not only antitown but scummy as fuck)

Once the questions are answers renigs and doesn't vote. (Liars die asap)

He says earlier that scum doesn't like to have a lot of attention on them and during the time when he has the most attention says he's going to stay away from the game for a while. That imo is hiding due to fear.

He goes on and basically describes my play style to a tee and votes me but says he's not voting me for my play style

He asks me if I believe in LAL, I say yes, he says he doesn't believe me (btw I can prove I do) and I say "well
That's how I feel" and he uses that against me in a negative light as well as adding some extra words to make what I said seem worse than it actually was.

He never once takes the time to verify if I'm telling the truth which he could easily do if he searched past games.

And now negative attention is being cast onto mush so he pops up, drops a vote without any reason and makes another excuse about being busy.

Adding in the fact that he abandons his mush push to sheep mush on LaLight with the caveat that if LaLight flips town he's coming after mush instead of taking responsibility for his own actions. Aka lining up lynches.

[TwoFace]

I apologize to everyone for my tone. I'll try and dial it down but when I play mafia I am an aggressive player and when people don't play the way they should or say people are scum and can't really make a good case for it I get aggravated.

Lots of people in this game are currently aggravating me because so many are just exsisting and aren't helping progress the game. I wish I could step away for a couple of days but I can't.

[TwoFace]

At this point since nobody wants to vote my top 2 reads, I'll vote whoever to prevent a no lynch. Day is ending in a couple of days and we aren't close to lynching anyone. Deadline scrambles suck.

Maybe an investigation role can investigate drag and confirm he's scum.

[TwoFace]

Of the people who have votes drag or Alisae are my preferred. I wouldn't oppose to light either.

[TwoFace]

There is a reason for that. Your post is confbiased to the most extreme degree I have ever seen.

I agree with this. Anyone can go through an iso and paint posts with a negative or positive spin.

[TwoFace]

Just because I'm V/LA doesn't mean I'm not keeping tabs on the thread or looking at the progression of the thread, all it means is that I don't have the same amount of time to commit to it.

So you should have provided content in addition to this post.


You've got me at a time where I'm really humbled so you've got one shot. Who's your top scum read and what's the best reasons you have for it.

Ignore sheeping others and all of this other stuff. If you had your choice of somebody to lynch right now and everyone listened to you. Who is it and why them.

[TwoFace]

VOTE: Drag

reasons?

[TwoFace]

I am very confident in my gamesolve that him and mario are scumbuddies

What happened to your gut which is almost never wrong? The one where you just happened to scum read the 3 people voting for drag?

With votes tied at 2 for everyone you sure are giving up easily...

[TwoFace]

Less people want to lynch drag than want to lynch mario.

Not going to complain about more votes on drag but if you are town, this switch doesn't fit any perspective I can figure.

[TwoFace]

I never said town can't change their mind. I'm saying that it's odd that you have more people open to the idea that Mario could be scum than you have people who think drag is scum and you have given up without a fight.

Like I gave up cause I literally did all I could do to get drag lynched. Can you say you did the same?

If me thinking town should fight for their preferred lynch is twisted. Guilty as charged.

[TwoFace]

VOTE: IAI
Those reads are terrible.

Is terrible = scummy?

2 of those 4 i am on record saying I agree with so they aren't terrible. And if he thinks you are scummy for them he's a hypocrite cause he should think I'm scummy for agreeing with at least half of them.

That's not how any of this works

You're right. Scum reading somebody for having different reads is bad. Voting to lynch them for it is terrible. That's one of the reasons why I'm down for an Alisae lynch

[TwoFace]

I'm not voting Alisae though.

Alisae is definitely not "very town" I don't even think he is possibly town. He's a slight scum lean cause of my "twisted mentality"

[TwoFace]

You claim you are keeping tabs yet that's 2 contentless posts.

[TwoFace]

Those are actually some good questions. Such a shame it took this long for you to do something that impressed me.

[TwoFace]

Like all 4 of those questions are great questions.

I will say some people feel that people always playing catchup are usually scum. That said my one game I was scum I was always catching up but that was just unfortunate coincidence considering there were holidays during that time.

Alisae reads don't seem genuine to me at all, that's another reason he's suspicious to me.

The part about Sheep, I hadn't really tried to put a word or phrase to describe his play but yeah that armchair feels about right.

I do think mulch explained his switch on you, however I don't really agree. He seems like he's trying to force a narrative to get me to consider Mario as scum. I think he thinks if he can get me to think you're partners I'll be more willing to vote him and when that didn't work he got aggravated and even aggressive towards me.

[TwoFace]

I have no idea what the armchair claim means as a complaint, personally.
Is it a claim that I'm not involved?

Not as much as you could be imo

[TwoFace]

What do you want me to do man, I've voted your top scunrrad, I've answered every single goddamn question, I've painstakingly went through all of Mario's posts to show what I am saying, so you really blame me for being frustrated when I think i have solved the game for 2 people and you call it an "agenda"

Why are you trying to please me though? I'm pretty sure I solved most of the game also. My game solve is different than yours. What I don't like is how you did a 180 on your "perfect townie " and now saying he's scum with your top read and you seemed to switch just to please me. That may not be what you are doing, but that definitely is how it appears.

I've got too many other scum reads to do a 180 on my top town read. So Mario is not in my lynch pool. Today.

Drag, you, alisae, sheep are my preferred.

Your conf.bias case didn't convince me of anything and your 180 leaves a bitter taste in my mouth.

[TwoFace]

I think the 3 scum are in {drag, alisea, mulch, syndesis, ingeel}

can I reiterate that this is a strange-looking scumpile

Why? Looks fine to me.

[TwoFace]

Especially considering this pairing came literally out of nowhere and without any actual evidence

[TwoFace]

it seems like you just went through all his posts and made up a reason for each one to be scummy

no real case, just reactive comments, no coherent argument.

oy that hurts

Why did it hurt? It's a factual statement. That's literally what you did.

[TwoFace]

That is a pretty terrible iso. And way too short considering we have more pages than he does posts...

[TwoFace]

That's a silly complaint. I post every day, answer everything asked of me, and am clearly advancing my own agenda in a trackable way.

Ok

[TwoFace]

30 posts in 33 pages with very little usable content isn't taking

[TwoFace]

Syn, since you are still voting your RVS vote and you aren't really providing content.

Who are your top 3 scum reads and why? (Please try and write a minimum of 3 or 4 sentences for each person)

Thanks

[TwoFace]

If we have a vig please shoot syn or BTD. There is no excuses for either to post so little, at least btd is a replacement but still.

There is no reason anyone should be hiding in the shadows unless you are scum.

[TwoFace]

Fuck. I Danny, light, and Ingeel are also lurkers. No wonder this game is such a shit storm.

Whoever is town out of the lot of you, seriously wtf. Why even play if you aren't going to play.

[TwoFace]

That's rhetorical btw. I don't care what your excuse is.

[TwoFace]

I have said at least three or four times that I don't really have any scumreads

Then all the criticism about you are justified. You clearly are not playing the game or you are scum.

[TwoFace]

I am considerably more engaged when it doesn't feel like two people are dragging the rest of thread into tunnels by themselves.

Lame excuse

[TwoFace]

A day and a half and not close to a lynch still. Half the player list has lurked and one went on v/la at the worst time.

Y'all want the tunnel to end. Just lynch me. I'm over this game. People clearly don't want to play and I don't want to play with people who don't want to play. I'd rather not make the mod find a new replacement

[TwoFace]

A lot of people (myself included) are discouraged to post because you keep complaining about activity levels.

I am not even sure who you are directing this to but I think it is complete bullshit.

up until recently, nobody has really complained about activity levels. And I don't know why that would discourage people to post. If people are complaining about activity levels and you are a low activity player that is a hint that people are complaining about you and the solution isn't to continue to post less. The solution is to post more.

Also how can you speak for an entire group of people?

The reality is YOU are discouraged to post because you don't have anything to say. You have messed up and are now laying low in hopes the attention moves on to somebody else. This is your 2nd attempt this game to do so.

clearly your scum game needs work. If you were town you you would be using this time to try and advance the game instead of what you have done since you declared your v/la which I still think is fake.

[TwoFace]

less than 2 days left, drag has the most votes, he is hands down the scummiest of the active players. we learn a lot from his flip.

choo choo bitches

[TwoFace]

Just because I'm V/LA doesn't mean I'm not keeping tabs on the thread or looking at the progression of the thread, all it means is that I don't have the same amount of time to commit to it.

why make this statement if you weren't going to actually do anything? This implies you were following along and could/would provide content.

Where is your content?

[TwoFace]

Actually a vig much like a cop should target people you can't get reads on. Inactive players you can't get reads on. They aren't really playing the game either. Like I'm sorry you are busy but you chose to replace in. By joining you are obligated to play and contribute and you haven't to an acceptable standard.

[TwoFace]

Mulch is probably the most perfect vig shot I've ever seen.

I definitely would be pleased with the vig if that happened

[TwoFace]

I townread him because the two scumbuddies scumread him. Easy

yet you really haven't been able to explain how you got to these 2 scum reads.

drag was your perfect townie.

mario all you did was post a link to tons of his posts and say they are scummy but not why they were scummy.

[TwoFace]

The reason why Vigs get a bad rap is usually cause they end up shooting a townie, sometimes a town PR but you really can't blame the bug for that. Townies shouldn't hide in the shadows. Town PRs definitely shouldn't either.

So if a lurker is worried about getting shot by a vig, there is an easy solution.

Don't lurk.

[TwoFace]

You've been in this game 7 days and now have 7 posts.

If you are only going to average 1 post a day, make it useful.
I find it odd that you can't manage to fit time into your day to play the game. If you honestly can't I'm not sure why you are attempting to.

[TwoFace]

Oh no. Sorry to hear. Take care.