Mini Normal 1917: :X Mafia (Game over!)

[DeathRowKitty]

Wut
Is it DRK

it is

Vote: Cheetory

I'm not going to answer Grendel's questions and it would be best if no one else did either

[DeathRowKitty]

Wut
Is it DRK

it is

Vote: Cheetory

I'm not going to answer Grendel's questions and it would be best if no one else did either

Why are the questions bad? The one time I scumread an RQS the player was Town.

Okay I mean that's great and all but I never said I was scumreading Grendel for RQS

[DeathRowKitty]

Still why is it bad?

The questions don't have enough (any?) of a direct tie to the current game for alignment to meaningfully appear in answers. *insert theory discussion of early game here* so RQS is basically the worst thing ever. Talking about it in general terms is also a bad thing though so etc

[DeathRowKitty]

Gamma why did you mention the thing about scumreading a player for RQS? Did you think I was doing that? You seem to have been in an RQS before. Did no one in that game object to it on theory grounds?

[DeathRowKitty]

Hi Raya do you think I'm scum?

[DeathRowKitty]

@DRK the point of RQS is t necessarily to judge alignments. It's meant as an ice breaker mostly. And Grendel uses it to judge alignment early so your concern is somewhat moot.
I don't recall anyone objecting to RQS for theory reasons that game. My objection was the player was using RQS for townpoints.

Having an icebreaker at the start of the game is worse than having nothing at the start of the game. It's more difficult for scum to find openings into the flow of the game in the early-going than it is for town.

[DeathRowKitty]

Hi Raya do you think I'm scum?

No... it's only page two of D1. Why are you asking me that?

(If you mean because you're against RQS than still no. I see where both sides are coming from around that.)

How about the way I'm going about it? Does the fact that I'm being all abrupt to Gamma Emerald about it give you bad feelings about me? Does the fact that I have a tiny townread on Gamma Emerald weird you out?

[DeathRowKitty]

@DRK the point of RQS is t necessarily to judge alignments. It's meant as an ice breaker mostly. And Grendel uses it to judge alignment early so your concern is somewhat moot.
I don't recall anyone objecting to RQS for theory reasons that game. My objection was the player was using RQS for townpoints.

Having an icebreaker at the start of the game is worse than having nothing at the start of the game. It's more difficult for scum to find openings into the flow of the game in the early-going than it is for town.

I thought you had a new reason to object but this is the same as one I've seen before
At least rb had the dignity to say it clogged the game up when I tried it with him

"Dignity"? Don't give me that nonsense. I'm not going to give you extra filler reasons because you won't accept the real ones.

[DeathRowKitty]

Since you're asking me what I think of you so early on it's only fair if I ask the same of you. Do you have any reads on me? Do you have any reads on anyone else?

You're basically null. notsure did nothing but answer the RQS questions so there's nothing game-related to read from him in the first place. I am too blinded by my lifelong feud with Cheetory4 (he doesn't deserve to have a number as large as 6 after his name) to have any read on him but scumscumscum all the timetimetime.

[DeathRowKitty]

Considering it's the start of the game, anything anyone does now can be interpreted in any way and is just WIFOM.

BUT if people start talking now, it gives a lot of interaction and behaviors that can be compared to later in the game. This is good for town. So DeathRowKitty, I don't see the value in not answering some simple RQS questions. Just as mafia could use your answers against you, so can town use it as a basis to judge you as Town and have a higher chance of finding mafia as the game progresses.

so whatever I guess.

Everything you just said is incredibly silly. Do you have any reads?

[DeathRowKitty]

You talk a lot about finding mafia and yet you seem to find find more value in answering non-game-specific questions than you do in discussing reads. Is interesting. Would you say that this utterly bizarre valuation is relevant to your alignment or is it a part of your views on mafia theory?

What about me seems scummy to you?

[DeathRowKitty]

Klick Mr. Cheetory might be scum can you vote him with me pls

[DeathRowKitty]

ITT I apparently made long posts, called RQS scummy, and called Grendel scummy. And I'm apparently a he.

But at least it all rhymed?

[DeathRowKitty]

DRK, do you think I'm hard to read when I'm trying?

I would expect you to be, but I've never played with you so ???

[DeathRowKitty]

You talk a lot about finding mafia and yet you seem to find find more value in answering non-game-specific questions than you do in discussing reads. Is interesting. Would you say that this utterly bizarre valuation is relevant to your alignment or is it a part of your views on mafia theory?

What about me seems scummy to you?

The more people talk, the more content TOwn has to work with in identifying potential mafia. What about that don't you understand?

Mmkay, you don't seem to have understood what I was saying, so let me try again.

Not all posting is created equal. e.g. we could talk about ice cream and unicorns all day and it would be fun but we would get nowhere. I doubt you disagree with this concept.

Your posting seems to indicate that you found the random questions and the answering thereof to be a positive thing. Presumably, this means that you consider them to in some way advance the game, which you seem to understand is something that happens through reading people. Would you therefore say that it is your belief that these questions in some way help to read anyone? If so, what reads have you gained from it and what about it gave you those reads?

When I asked you about your reads, you seemed to believe that this made me likely scum. Now, scummy and anti-town aren't the same thing, but it seems likely in this case that you found it scummy at least partly because you did think it was anti-town. Is this correct?

Now, if the contentions in the previous two paragraph thingies are correct (i.e. that you found answering the questions to be a positive and that you found asking for reads to be anti-town), it would seem reasonable to conclude that you find more value in non-game-specific questions than you do in discussing reads. If so... .... ... why???



p-edit wow a lot of posts happened while i was typing this i am long-winded sry

[DeathRowKitty]

Can you talk at me about what you were hoping to accomplish here?
Like, did you think you were going to sort me by pushing me here and get something actually reliable out of it?

I realized after I did it that it wouldn't really accomplish what I intended, but the intention wasn't to pressure you

It ties into how I've been playing this game and I suspect you can at least kind of guess at why based on that.



Unrelated, but I like Grendel even though I heavily disagree with his theory views.

[DeathRowKitty]

@DeathRowKitty

I don't know why you are reading so heavily into me, like you want to paint me as mafia. Getting scummy vibes from you. But I don't really care about the questions Grendel asked; it's just to get the game rolling. And that's a good thing, instead of having people sitting in the side lines not doing shit. I mean, hey, look it got me posting and suddenly I'm getting a read on you, whether right or not, so there's it's value smarty pants.

I refuse to believe that you are a real person sorry

[DeathRowKitty]

I laughed

[DeathRowKitty]

What do you think of Mutten's OP. It read as super detached from the games state. More like checking a box for required partipation then genuine content imo

Was a truly terrible post. Weird summary post with weird snipes at weird people. I considered following your vote onto him, but I don't expect him to be particularly active in the near future (he made that post and then didn't respond to anything said after it + i've had a rhyming alt and it's a tiny bit frustrating to ever post content while posting in rhyme tbh) and that would make a wagon on him a bit meh unless we plan on quicklynching

[DeathRowKitty]

Weird summary post with weird snipes at weird people.

Yeah but I don't think it's scummy weird.

I afk'd and thought about this (and then came back and looked back at the post) and I do think it's scummy weird. What jumped out at me from the post was the rather wide net he cast over my play and over Cheetory's, the weird framing of Cheetory's play, and the lack of accuracy in detail. While all of that could just be lazy scumhunting, it would have to be

very

lazy scumhunting and that possibility isn't enough for me to just write off the more immediately obvious explanation of him being scum.

The other theoretically plausible explanation is of course lazy posting due to self-imposed rhyming restriction, but things about his post make me find that unlikely in this case.

[DeathRowKitty]

I'll think about this over lunch. Do me a favor and tell me what you think about Paul?

I think his choice to answer the questions and his choice to self-vote were both sub-optimal there, but I think both are well within the range of things a lot of newer players would do as either alignment and I don't find the combination of the two to be any greater than the sum of its parts. Null to me

[DeathRowKitty]

Not liking Gamma so much anymore. Doing the opposite of liking him. Where "liking" is a synonym for "townreading" and not a personal opinion of the person because otherwise I would be very much not liking Cheetory, as always. Gamma's posts haven't been reading to me as someone looking critically at anyone and I'm pretty sure (i didn't read the things since my last post very thoroughly sry) there were multiple instances of him defending people in ways that I would expect to induce far more paranoia in town than seems to be the case for him. At the very least, his defense of CCC against Cheetory seemed that way to me and I think there was another thing too.

Unvote: Cheetory

Vote: Gamma Emerald

I feel like I should be saying something about notsure and my opinion is that he's just a distraction here. I made one particularly leading post at notsure to see what he would do with it and somehow it seems to have sent him off the deep end, so I suppose it's my fault or something. Being logic-averse and having a victim complex are both not alignment-indicative, unfortunately.

[DeathRowKitty]

I think notsure is town because he has this air of "I'm right fools and if you disagree you're just bad at mafia" that is both unnatural to a scum (who knows for sure that they are wrong and fake) and also very hard to fake.

Eh, I tend to just completely write off "I don't think scum would do this" towntells when the person in question is angry.


My thoughts on gamma's response is that he probably legitimately doesn't know what I meant. I don't know if I'm sufficiently motivated to explain it better right this second though...

[DeathRowKitty]

Will consider the possibility that notsure's play is likely town a bit later



Hopefully slightly clearer explanation of what I find scummy about Gamma:

There's two parts to what I don't like about Gamma's play here. The first is that I see no indication that he's expended any mental effort on trying to figure out anyone's alignment. He's poked at people a few times, but not in ways that seem to probe at alignment at all.

Spoiler: gamma poking

If you're going to read these quotes as examples, please also look at his follow-ups to them (not quoted here) - even the things that might seem like they're plausibly trying to probe for alignment no longer seem that way when you read how he follows up on them.

Wut
Is it DRK

it is

Vote: Cheetory

I'm not going to answer Grendel's questions and it would be best if no one else did either

Why are the questions bad? The one time I scumread an RQS the player was Town.

Accountant what is your actual position on doing the RQS?

I did some homework!

One of TripleC's recent games was an 11 player game in which there was 3 scum.

Newbie games have nine players, two of whom are Mafia. Here we have eleven players.

Three mafia sounds about right to me.

Given that this is something they've been interested in trying to figure out as town before, the # of games they've played in general and the different numbering in said game, I'm leaning towards believing that the # of players line of questioning is genuine.
His tone as scum is a little more forced from what I saw in the one game I skimmed and I feel like he genuinely believes his reading for his scumread on Klick.
So, town for now.

Eh it could be fake though
What other things do you find Town about CCC?

The point about me calling VIs VIs is grasping at straws.

Backhand: Didn't most of the people voting Cheet give reasons, thus making it not random? They might not have been good reasons, but certainly they had non-random scumreads on him

Query: is the grasping at straws scummy?

Then why point it out?

It's become a pattern for Gamma in this game to lob out softball and just kinda go "Mmkay, they caught it, everything seems fine." It almost kinda sorta seems productive at first glance, but it's really just white noise. I guess I'm just describing active lurking, aren't I?


The other thing that was making me uncomfortable with Gamma's play is something that I partly misremembered from my initial read, I think and I'm not sure how much I agree with it now. Will ponder it more eventually.

I checked Gamma's iso to make this post and he looks even worse that way. Which I usually try not to give weight to, but I think in this case it's the lack of other posts rather than the lack of context that makes me like it less, which I do think makes it a useful observation.

[DeathRowKitty]

i am sick and not reading things don't poop-post too much without me p.s. not_mafia are you following me you seem to replace into every game i join

[DeathRowKitty]

There are 17 new pages since I last read stuff in this game and I kind of hate all of you for that. I'm going to post in a few hours after pretending to have read everything

[DeathRowKitty]

There are 17 new pages since I last read stuff in this game and I kind of hate all of you for that. I'm going to post in a few hours after pretending to have read everything

There are 17 new pages since I last read stuff in this game and I kind of hate all of you for that. I'm going to post in a few hours after pretending to have read everything

Say something.

What the actual flowery fluffernutter did you want me to say when I had read none of the game since my last post with content? What was your thought process when making this post?

[DeathRowKitty]

Like your predecessor, I refuse to believe that you are a real person.

[DeathRowKitty]

LAZY CATCH UP OR SOMETHING

Page 10
weird defenses of gamma
Well, grendel's defense of gamma is really weird, at least. Accountant's is just really really sad if it's true. It's a shame Accountant got banned; I was enjoying bouncing thought back and forth with them.

Page 11
CCC posted a lot. It all seemed fine but unexciting from what was mostly a skim, though I must say I enjoyed his MCM impersonation.

Page 12
nothing worth noting

Page 13
Hiraki confirms Accountant's thoughts on gamma. Welp. I think I've stopped reading Grendel's posts and I don't know why.

Page 14
NTRP looks pretty bad here. I tend to have trouble reading players like him, but he certainly looks bad. I'm also keeping an eye on how Backhand plays this because he at least plausibly looks from his posts so far like he could be scum waiting things out on NTRP.

-----

gonna just post what I have every few pages so I can be lazy about later pages and feel less bad about it

[DeathRowKitty]

Page 15
It definitely feels like CCC has talked about "scared" vs "sacred" a lot. Does it just feel like that because I'm reading all of these pages at once? Is it at all alignment-indicative if it's true? I don't know! I guess probably not!! Who has time for thinking when they have a billion pages to read!!!

This vote has my attention in a bad way. I should probably reread page 14 more closely to get a better grasp of context, but letting NTRP off this easily in order to vote for someone for not yet posting after replacing in definitely fits the narrative I was considering.

Ooookay, NTRP softed preeeetttty hard. Also, I wish CCC wouldn't make so many separate posts. It causes things to happen, like 17 pages popping up since I last posted anything useful.


---

posting this one based off of just one page because I suspect the next few pages are all going to be a mess of talking about NTRP and I would really rather just get my thoughts on Backhand out there now

[DeathRowKitty]

Page 16
Why are multiple people suggesting running someone up to teach them that softing a PR isn't good wtf

It's a bad thing for NTRP to have done in that situation as town regardless of whether or not he gets run up. And beginners probably don't usually soft PRs at 1 vote as scum anyway so...???


People I am referring to are MCM and CCC.

A little meh about this (having such a specific condition on posting is kind of strange and an easy excuse, in theory at least) but I suspect that's not so relevant 12 pages later.


Page 17
This[/rul] followed by this two posts later is also ???

CCC's post read to Gamma as rolefishing, but Gamma then voted the same person and listed CCC as his second strongest townread???


Page 18
Nothing happened here.


Page 19
Things are probably on the cusp of happening. Also, people keep thinking I'm male.


Page 20
Backhand townslips while explaining someone else's townslip. Do I dare drink the wine?


Page 21
No.

I think I've lost focus. I might finish reading today but hold off on being *actually useful* until tomorrow. Bite me. (Don't actually bite me pls)


Page 22 and Page 23
Probably nothing


I'm not sure if I absorbed anything from the past few pages at all I'll catch up later sry

[DeathRowKitty]

Page 17
This followed by this two posts later is also ???

tagfix

[DeathRowKitty]

I'm awake. I'm here.

[DeathRowKitty]

Vote: Not_Mafia

ye

[DeathRowKitty]

Cheet, give me the sparknotes version of some things here

What's Backhand's deal? Is Gamma okay? Why Not_Mafia?

[DeathRowKitty]

If that's an actual dayvig I'm gonna throw my conceptions of this setup out the window
Actually tbh I already should, no indication of what I expected

did you think there was a chance it was a real dayvig

[DeathRowKitty]

i think amished tell is legit but i don't think it applies to what slingshotwaffles said in this game this is @nero ok i need to start looking back at like individual people and nailing down what specifically i did/didn't like about things or something who to look at who to look at...

[DeathRowKitty]

i'm afraid to give some of my reads for #reasons

i actually think nero might be scum tho

[DeathRowKitty]

I haven't asked anyone for reads since like page < 10 man

[DeathRowKitty]

Anyway, I did actually bother to look at the Backhand more closely and I don't think he's scum. I also think notwaffles slot is town

[DeathRowKitty]

I feel like there's a pretty good chance you don't know much of anything about how this game has gone. Which is fine, but can you not do this if that's the case?

[DeathRowKitty]

You asked two questions. One of them should be pretty easy to check for yourself and the other should be obvious from looking at the playerlist, so I don't really care to answer those questions for you, no

[DeathRowKitty]

Has anyone played with scum Gamma Emerald? I was told earlier that a thing I pointed out about him was something he does as town, but is it a towntell for him or a nulltell?

[DeathRowKitty]

I see Not_Mafia, SlignshotWaffles, and Notsure amongst. Specifics would be nice, consider two of those in the PL have not in their name.

I said "notwaffles slot"

not

sureSlingshot

Waffles

[DeathRowKitty]

*sigh* I modded scum gamma recently. That behavior wasn't present.

I looked up this game and I didn't read almost any of his posts but I did notice that he used RQS in that game

@GAMMA
In that game, you seemed to think that the RQS wound up being benefiicial to scum. Why did you expect RQS to be good for town in this game?

[DeathRowKitty]

CCC is my 4th biggest scumread

[DeathRowKitty]

The more I read the more I think Cheet is scum

if you would like to explain this one i will legitimately think it over but not actually do anything about it because i've been intentionally avoiding reading cheet

[DeathRowKitty]

I didn't mean for that to sound sarcastic, my apologies if it did.

[DeathRowKitty]

77 was a response to me asking him partly about RQS. I don't think reading into WKing of Grendel is worthwhile here.

[DeathRowKitty]

I'm gonna go get some popcorn and watch kraska respond to swaffles

[DeathRowKitty]

And it begins!

So glad I got Town.
So who didn't get town? No one?

actually nvm i cnt get over how terrible ^ this ^ is, vote stays

It's terrible, but is it scum-terrible? I can't imagine someone of either alignment saying it at all really. And yet he did. But what could he have been thinking that would have made him say it?

[DeathRowKitty]

Searching for a replacement for Gamma Emerald.

Let us know when you find one

[DeathRowKitty]

Meh

[DeathRowKitty]

And I find it kinda funny, I find it kinda sad

who's scum

[DeathRowKitty]

[b[Vote: kraska[/b]

[DeathRowKitty]

fucking

Vote: kraska

I don't actually think she's scum even

It's going to be something like Cheetory + Nero Cain + comical third option

I just don't feel good about any lynch at all

[DeathRowKitty]

I don't feel good about any wagon so I just really don't care as much as I should

[DeathRowKitty]

okay give me a few minutes to clear my head

Unvote

[DeathRowKitty]

idk kraska's posting never really set off any alarm bells for me but her iso looks awful

part of why i haven't liked nero is because early on i had reservations about accountant that i never expressed because having me + accountant around was keeping me honest with myself because of how we were playing but at times it really did seem like they were just drawing conclusions that were convenient

inb4 "isn't that what accountant always does"

[DeathRowKitty]

she's abnormally consistent and confident for the mess that this game has become and it makes some of her iso hard to believe

and then there are things like this that just idk i could probably give you a better reason why i don't like it if i thought about it for a minute or two and i don't think it was the only such thing but it really stood out for some reason

[DeathRowKitty]

that was an awful explanation what am i doing with my life

[DeathRowKitty]

attempt number two to explain the first half of that thing

her reads have stayed static and her iso gives the impression of like shapeshifts and wiggling around to make the world a place in which those are still her reads

that explanation isn't any better

my brain is potatoes

[DeathRowKitty]

wtf i'm not even sure the facts of that let alone the interpretation is correct kill me

[DeathRowKitty]

i'll be back in a bit my brain is all wobbly i can't think in a way that makes sense for mafia right now

[DeathRowKitty]

I'm back, sorry

We have two different people who advocated for their own lynch. Death truly is merciful.

inb4 "isn't that what accountant always does"

I wasn't going to say the last part but the fact that you say that makes your argument very uneasy and more probably wrong in my eyes.

I was making a joke about Accountant's presence in the discussion portion of the site. I'd never played mafia with them before.

[DeathRowKitty]

@Kraska, @Penguin
If you're here, why did you advocate for your own lynch?

[DeathRowKitty]

Wait Waffles vote was a lynch if he wasn't already voting and Hiraki's counting was correct

[DeathRowKitty]

Wait Waffles vote was a lynch if he wasn't already voting and Hiraki's counting was correct

I was already voting.

a Real Human Being™

[DeathRowKitty]

Wait Waffles vote was a lynch if he wasn't already voting and Hiraki's counting was correct

I was already voting.

a Real Human Being™

Why do you do that?

a Real Human Being™

[DeathRowKitty]

because lots of people are hyper focused on me being scum and they cant all be scum. seeing a green flip from me will make them reconsider their reads

It's particularly WIFOM-tastic from you because you were the second person to suggest that their own lynch might be good. Did the fact that Penguin had already advocated for their own lynch play into your thought process at all?

[DeathRowKitty]

Actually yeah i somehow forgot in all of the excitement that Penguin self-voted. Gross. It's a much more desperate move than he needed there, which is strange. Perhaps I shouldn't care about that?

Vote: Penguin

[DeathRowKitty]

Why do you keep calling it "the Gamma slot" instead of "kraska"? Is there something about the situation that you are trying to emphasize by doing so?

[DeathRowKitty]

Okay.

[DeathRowKitty]

Oh.

[DeathRowKitty]

I would like to take this moment to make sure that everyone sees CHEETORY6's username before it changes back.

[DeathRowKitty]

I'm here, I'm real, and I'm spectacular

[DeathRowKitty]

I hadn't actually read anything before saying that, but apparently so

My sense of timing is impeccable.

[DeathRowKitty]

tbh I'm having trouble forming reads this game because I've gotten into a bad habit of accidentally scumreading most power roles as town but I think I understand how it happens and I'm being overly careful to not let myself fall into that this game and it's making me weird and cagey because avoiding it requires me to be more careful and I haven't really felt able to do so since I fell behind once in this game and that's been locking me into only being able to talk about the subset of players I feel like I've put enough effort into separating properly in that way

and now i'm just playing like shit in a different way than usual so that's useful

[DeathRowKitty]

why would i answer that question

[DeathRowKitty]

froggy
hey froggy
froggy mckittens hey
who would you be scumreading if you were probably accidentally scumreading power roles? just curious wink wink