Mini Normal 1917: :X Mafia (Game over!)

[Accountant]

MCM is starting to grow on me

[DeathRowKitty]

Not liking Gamma so much anymore. Doing the opposite of liking him. Where "liking" is a synonym for "townreading" and not a personal opinion of the person because otherwise I would be very much not liking Cheetory, as always. Gamma's posts haven't been reading to me as someone looking critically at anyone and I'm pretty sure (i didn't read the things since my last post very thoroughly sry) there were multiple instances of him defending people in ways that I would expect to induce far more paranoia in town than seems to be the case for him. At the very least, his defense of CCC against Cheetory seemed that way to me and I think there was another thing too.

Unvote: Cheetory

Vote: Gamma Emerald

I feel like I should be saying something about notsure and my opinion is that he's just a distraction here. I made one particularly leading post at notsure to see what he would do with it and somehow it seems to have sent him off the deep end, so I suppose it's my fault or something. Being logic-averse and having a victim complex are both not alignment-indicative, unfortunately.

[Accountant]

I think notsure is town because he has this air of "I'm right fools and if you disagree you're just bad at mafia" that is both unnatural to a scum (who knows for sure that they are wrong and fake) and also very hard to fake.

[Gamma Emerald]

Not liking Gamma so much anymore. Doing the opposite of liking him. Where "liking" is a synonym for "townreading" and not a personal opinion of the person because otherwise I would be very much not liking Cheetory, as always. Gamma's posts haven't been reading to me as someone looking critically at anyone and I'm pretty sure (i didn't read the things since my last post very thoroughly sry) there were multiple instances of him defending people in ways that I would expect to induce far more paranoia in town than seems to be the case for him. At the very least, his defense of CCC against Cheetory seemed that way to me and I think there was another thing too.

Unvote: Cheetory

Vote: Gamma Emerald

I feel like I should be saying something about notsure and my opinion is that he's just a distraction here. I made one particularly leading post at notsure to see what he would do with it and somehow it seems to have sent him off the deep end, so I suppose it's my fault or something. Being logic-averse and having a victim complex are both not alignment-indicative, unfortunately.

Uhhhh TL;DR since your case is completely incomprehensible to me

[Grendel]

Catching up.

If things keep going like they were yesterday I may not need to analyze all the RQS responses. --Meaning-- that I've developed some reads I'm confidant in.

[Accountant]

Uhhhh TL;DR since your case is completely incomprehensible to me

DRK

what is your thought on this response

[Gamma Emerald]

Also curious why instead of fixing your opener for that post you made it a confusing mess.
All I get from the case is "seems to be okay with certain things which does not fit with a paranoid townie", to which I say "when have I been a paranoid townie?". Like, if I'd been like that before, I'd get it but it just feels like a playstyle issue?

[DeathRowKitty]

I think notsure is town because he has this air of "I'm right fools and if you disagree you're just bad at mafia" that is both unnatural to a scum (who knows for sure that they are wrong and fake) and also very hard to fake.

Eh, I tend to just completely write off "I don't think scum would do this" towntells when the person in question is angry.


My thoughts on gamma's response is that he probably legitimately doesn't know what I meant. I don't know if I'm sufficiently motivated to explain it better right this second though...

[MuttonChopMagic]

"why would scum do this" has caused many a town to lose
but in this case I do think notsure is a green dude
that read is weak but eh I just got head at central park on vaca
*subtle brag* gonna go to bed now cyall tomorrow on payday

[Accountant]

My thoughts on gamma's response is that he probably legitimately doesn't know what I meant.

I had the thought of "scum Gamma would care more about making themselves look good and would therefore read it until they understood it so they can form a better response" but im very unsure of how legitimate this is as a tell which is why I didn't bring it up

[Accountant]

Eh, I tend to just completely write off "I don't think scum would do this" towntells when the person in question is angry.

IMO they've had this air the entire game

[DeathRowKitty]

Will consider the possibility that notsure's play is likely town a bit later



Hopefully slightly clearer explanation of what I find scummy about Gamma:

There's two parts to what I don't like about Gamma's play here. The first is that I see no indication that he's expended any mental effort on trying to figure out anyone's alignment. He's poked at people a few times, but not in ways that seem to probe at alignment at all.

Spoiler: gamma poking

If you're going to read these quotes as examples, please also look at his follow-ups to them (not quoted here) - even the things that might seem like they're plausibly trying to probe for alignment no longer seem that way when you read how he follows up on them.

Wut
Is it DRK

it is

Vote: Cheetory

I'm not going to answer Grendel's questions and it would be best if no one else did either

Why are the questions bad? The one time I scumread an RQS the player was Town.

Accountant what is your actual position on doing the RQS?

I did some homework!

One of TripleC's recent games was an 11 player game in which there was 3 scum.

Newbie games have nine players, two of whom are Mafia. Here we have eleven players.

Three mafia sounds about right to me.

Given that this is something they've been interested in trying to figure out as town before, the # of games they've played in general and the different numbering in said game, I'm leaning towards believing that the # of players line of questioning is genuine.
His tone as scum is a little more forced from what I saw in the one game I skimmed and I feel like he genuinely believes his reading for his scumread on Klick.
So, town for now.

Eh it could be fake though
What other things do you find Town about CCC?

The point about me calling VIs VIs is grasping at straws.

Backhand: Didn't most of the people voting Cheet give reasons, thus making it not random? They might not have been good reasons, but certainly they had non-random scumreads on him

Query: is the grasping at straws scummy?

Then why point it out?

It's become a pattern for Gamma in this game to lob out softball and just kinda go "Mmkay, they caught it, everything seems fine." It almost kinda sorta seems productive at first glance, but it's really just white noise. I guess I'm just describing active lurking, aren't I?


The other thing that was making me uncomfortable with Gamma's play is something that I partly misremembered from my initial read, I think and I'm not sure how much I agree with it now. Will ponder it more eventually.

I checked Gamma's iso to make this post and he looks even worse that way. Which I usually try not to give weight to, but I think in this case it's the lack of other posts rather than the lack of context that makes me like it less, which I do think makes it a useful observation.

[Grendel]

I can already tell this game will be a pain
grendel, link me where rvs has caught scum mayn
drk, suck my left nut
klick I like but
drk not so much
it's ok though I'll be towns crutch
cheetory is town i think
drk is over explaining and being a stink
I like gamma for green
notsure what alignment not sure could be
I think Paul is getting too much shit
but wagoning a newb is fine, at least a bit

https://forum.starmen.net/forum/Storage ... l-Question
Its an offsite game, but used RQS and it helped me identify the players {Dipper, PigsmaskJames} There were other reads I got from it, but I'm not interested in doing leg work for you atm.

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=67181
Ironicly my own reads that I got from RQS were less accurate then Egg's observations. Egg called out Masquerade as scum, and was correct. RQS provided a start to that suspicion.

Not interested in sharing results from any games where I was not known as "Grendel"

Anyway, Your reads appear to be:
Town: Klick, Cheetory, Gamma
Null: Unsure
Getting too much flack: Not Puel
Scum: Grendel, DRK

Can you explain what Not Peul getting too much flack means for your read on Accountant? As they led that pressure.

let's do a pbpa before I sleep
rqs, fuck off creep
le hilarious shitpost, you should be a comedian
more buddying of cheeto, the votes should be stampedin
oh look, third post in a row about cheeto
and more buddying... not tryna repeat though
67 is pretty gross in a different way
inventing some b.s. about rqs catching scum today
the pedit itself is even worse I think
but people discredit lamist as a tell so I won't make a stink
oh look, he's not thrilled with me, nice reasoning bro
and now the reasoning in 92... gross
I'm detached from the game state? checking boxes? fuck off
your rqs is what made the "game state" aloft
95 wording is really weird
pbpa out, my vote stays herr

The crux of your case against me looks like "Grendel is Buddying Cheetory", "Grendel's reasoning is gross" and "Grendel is voting me, Belh!"

--Elaborate on why these things are scummy to you--

I'm not sure if it means anything AI yet, but I am interested at the contrast in tone between these posts and your first. I want to jump on it and say that its scum over compensating for getting called out. But part of me feels that your emotion is genuine in said posts.

DO you have much offsite experience Mutton?

[Accountant]

It's become a pattern for Gamma in this game to lob out softball and just kinda go "Mmkay, they caught it, everything seems fine." It almost kinda sorta seems productive at first glance, but it's really just white noise. I guess I'm just describing active lurking, aren't I?

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

[Accountant]

it does seem consistent with what I know of their town game however

[Accountant]

grendel quick qn why didn't you RQS during making friends & enemies? because you were scum there?

[Grendel]

@Death Row Cat
I actually disagree on post 94

Accountant what is your actual position on doing the RQS?

Gamma is approaching this line of questioning is very inline with how I have moved discussion through RQS in the past as town. More importantly I don’t think its something that Gamma would do with the expectation of getting town read by anyone. His thinking isn’t restricted with the purpose of looking town. Meaning he is more likely to be town.

I think Gamma active lurks a lot. I think there was only a couple games with him where he truly stayed on the ball.

Pre-edit

@Accountat

I opened in a manner that I thought would be conventionally pro-town looking so I could lurk later. More importantly, I was scared of using RQS around players like RC, Frogger, and JayReed.

[Grendel]

I think Gamma active lurks a lot. I think there was only a couple games with him where he truly stayed on the ball.

*Games I played with Gamma

[Grendel]

What do you think of Mutten's OP. It read as super detached from the games state. More like checking a box for required partipation then genuine content imo

I disagree. Mutton's OP was perfectly fine. You probably mixed it up with Paul's OP.

I think that Not Paul’s worst offense was only partipating in the RQS and not commenting on the game state itself. Which is a moderately scummy reaction to RQS. His answers also seemed oddly insecure. The self vote is just null, and silly.

Spoiler:

First game here in a while. I'm aflutter with emotion!

@All

1. What is your preferred alignment?
2. On a scale of one to ten how collaborative a player are you and why?
3. How important is it to take other players personalities into account when forming reads on them?
4. What player do you have the most experience with on this roster?
5. What are you feeling as you enter this mini's D1?

1. Never been a scum but I want to play as one. I like knowing who is what alignment.

2. Im pretty sheepy but occasionally I try to form my own reads and fail miserably. Probably a solid 7.

3. Mehh. Personality can be faked. If you know them really well/played with them a lot then sure I guess you should take it into account.

4. I have very little (like none) experience with anyone but GE and muttonchop I am currently am in a game with.

5. Sleepy. Its 9 pm here and I need to wake up early. Gnight.

VOTE: NotTheRealPaul

I think what stood out to me about mutton was that he was incredibly detached his first post was, so much so that the points of discussions he highlighted looked stretched. His vote seemed less like, “I’m voting scum”, and more like, “I’m voting whoever is getting attention.” ei Cheetory

I guess standing back from them now Not Paul’s entrance looks as scummy as mutton’s entrance.

Muttons dynamic also started changing dynamically with his next posts. I'm gnawing on what that means currently.

[Grendel]

@grendel

I don't know your alignment. You seem to want to get people playing and don't nitpick WIFOM details so far. Could be scum, but seem Town so far.

I didn't have time last night to point it out but, Unsure sounds like paranoid town right here. Plus his reads add up. If I’m a town read for him then it makes since from his perspective to suspect the two people most critical of my approach to the game. Realistically I find it unlikely that Klick x DRK would be a thing, but it does show that Unsure is thinking.

VOTE: DeathRowKitty

Feel pretty good about kitty being mafia. Either shit-town with anti-town agenda that wants to paint Townies as mafia or mafia just trolling along. Either way, don't think I'd miss her even as Town.

So that's your bright response? Tell me just not to scum read someone and act condescending?

Wow, scummy or just shit town.

Post like these really irk me however. I hate it when players justify a read by implying that "If there not scum then they're bad town". Its like distancing oneself from the cadaver.

The thing is that I see this behavior from inexperienced players trying to convince themselves and others that they are right. I used to believe that the behavior was scummy, but I never got enough evidence the indicates its a legit tell.

Any case its a read that Notsure is clearly emotionally invested in. I should look at DRK next to read her alignment before I start talking unsure about his read.

[Accountant]

More importantly, I was scared of using RQS around players like RC, Frogger, and JayReed.

???

[Grendel]

I was wanting to avoid RC, and Frogger as much as possible.

I could tell JR was predisposed to scum read me from the start.

RQS usually garners more attention then going off and scumhunting by myself.

[Grendel]

Oh i misspelled sacred as scared lol.

That explains the "???"

[Gamma Emerald]

Yo Grendel
Your other offsite game just ended

[MuttonChopMagic]

UNVOTE: