Mini Normal 1919: Endgame

[Klazam]

its because i dont think tchill/carc has any meaningful interactions with me, and i was on the fence between serg and tchill, that doesnt look good for me i believe. also the fact nightplay didnt interact with me, doesnt leave much to clear me, unlike specific other players.

like i said, objectively poe leaves me/dunk/branson as the pool where scum can be found. and since we have 3 lynches, im alright with going down.

----
pedit, scum got unlucky. i agree that they do need another power role here which clears emp.

[Klazam]

hell, i would probably claim gunsmith as mafia in dunk's position. lemme check his invesigations again

[Klazam]

alright, looking at the gunsmith investigations from a mafia perspective, the taco investigation definitely makes sense here. (goddamnit if dunk is scum, mulch was right, ugh ugh dont wanna reward that behavior)

[Klazam]

Dunker could only be a Mafia gunsmith.

7x VT
Vigilante
3 shot Vanilla Cop
Odd Night Cop

goon
Rb
gunsmith

This looks like it would work, tbh. If any other PR were out there, I'd probably be okay lynching Dunker. Goon is actually strong on scum if there is a vanilla cop in the game.

so if branson was a PR, dunk is scum, is that what you'd say, boon?

[Klazam]

Interesting note. Vanilla cop 3x mafia. 2x town 1x town included as a joat ability. Mm

Mafia vanilla cop given the town roles makes sense.

cant reconcile mafia fykus with the interactions.

[Klazam]

The gangup on D1 by carc and tchill really makes fykus read town to me. (post 705/712)

[Klazam]

that vote was weird, yeah...

[Klazam]

beecause its unlikely that scum only has one (limited)power role given the town has plenty of power roles

[Klazam]

beecause its unlikely that scum only has one (limited)power role given the town has plenty of power roles

Probably right but I don't think all these PR claims are legit.

which still clears Emp as town, so it still works

[Klazam]

But if they are all legit you could be scum

assuming "you" refers to me, yeah im aware of that. Branson is in this pool too.

[Klazam]

interesting.

[Klazam]

alright, boon, whos your third lynch after me and fykus? twoface or branson?

I dont want twoface to hang, honestly.

[Klazam]

eh

dunno.

Boon, how can i reassure you that im town here? Because im starting to think maybe 2 lynches + my lynch wont be enough to catch scum.

Does taco's read on me count for anything?

--- pedit

hm, that might work. is me and twoface the only people left that can be cleared with that method?

[Klazam]

Oh, Boon, if you dont die, what changes?

[Klazam]

And if it comes down to mulch, fykus, and dunk, who would you want to be lynched in that scenario? because this is the likely outcome of your plan, assuming branson and 2f is town, and i get hung tomorrow.

[Klazam]

im thinking fykus should be hung in that lylo scenario there.

alright, i think im okay with the above plan as outlined.

I wanna hear from branson before we move forward with the lynch though. Seemed to be softclaiming a power role, which could change the math somewhat.

[Klazam]

yeah. what you say makes a whole lot of sense.

doubt that scum ends up following your plan though.

[Klazam]

Fykus is most likely scum. That's the one claim that doesn't fit imo.

Yeah. I'd actually be plenty fine with you guys lynching Fykus over Klazam tomorrow.

./agree


Why not now? Branson is a complete unknown, and fykus claimed one more shot, so if hes town, we might as well use it to completely clear you?

[Klazam]

Wasnt talking to u, was answering Twoface's why not lynch fykus now post

[Klazam]

sorry for not quoting, phone pains.

[Klazam]

Twoface, you suspecting boon here?

[Klazam]

why's nobody letting branson talk here?

[Klazam]

I want your input, for one. do you have anything to claim, or do you disagree with one of the points made so far?

[Klazam]

Boon, who can you confirm?

[Klazam]

Imma VT

[Klazam]

I'm not scum. Boon you do realize if I hang, you hang tomorrow?

[Klazam]

Alright I'm okay with this . Boon or me die today, dont care, as long as the other one dies tomorrow.

VOTE: boon

I'll say enp is likely town because game balance breaks if he's just a vanilla goon imo.

Let's do this.

[Klazam]

Lol I'm not scum claiming. You're the only scum possible in the game as of now, so your lynch either today or tomorrow wins the game for us. If you're town, which you're not, then I'm fucked either way. That line says that I'm ready to stake the game on it.

If I was scum do you think I'd put myself up for lynch tomorrow, mate?

[Klazam]

If you're town, means I'm scum, I'm surprised you're not willing to be hanged in order to hang me, eh?

[Klazam]

What if empiricus is a mafia power role

Vanilla confirmed by conftown fykus. Just like two-face.

[Klazam]

Doesn't make sense from game balance standpoint here. Boon is the only choice for scum, other than me. So vote me or him and win the game.

[Klazam]

Alright. Let's rumble. Emp, fykus, votes please.

[Klazam]

I'm fine with being today's lunch if you, mulch, personally promise me that you hang boon tomorrow

[Klazam]

Nah it isn't. I'm sure.

[Klazam]

Prediction: fykus dies in the night, and scumboon tries to maniuplate mulch into voting emp. That's how I read the game going at this moment. There's hell of a lot of dirt on emp he can dig up. This is his only route to victory, so I need to secure your promise that boon dies tomorrow

[Klazam]

Patterns show me that. Look at the taco kill. It impliciates empiricus so cleanly, it HAS to be a calcuated move by scumboon to maniuplate the game. Do it.

[Klazam]

Look at how hard boon is screaming not to be hung here, mate. We win.

[Klazam]

Also, Serg was the person I was fucking trying to lynch.

Which makes it the perfect kill for you to make. Let's go buddy hand in hand, we both face death. I am happy.

My fucking God mulch. Hang boon or me. That's it.

[Klazam]

You're self aware which makes meta worthless bro.

[Klazam]

Boon. Do you have a issue with dying today if it ensures I die tomorrow?

I'll extract promises from everyone else to lynch me and to not listen to a fucking word I say tomorrow, eh?

Pedit
And it's to kill fykus tonight to get rid of a conftown ez.

[Klazam]

My town flip will show that.

Sounds good

[Klazam]

Replace me out. I'm going to get overly toxic.

Lynch me before it. I'm legit town, and I lied about targeting Fykus. I targeted Dunker. have fun.

What the fuck

[Klazam]

That replacement request is bullshit and for strategic purposes.

I thought it was aganist site rules to do that...

[Klazam]

NOBODY IS CLEARED ANYMORE

Well, you are my buddy <3

[Klazam]

You are cleared.

If boon is town in the end, the game loss lies solely on him, no regrets about our 1v1 lynch still. Hang him then me.

[Klazam]

Poor broken bunny

[Klazam]

If he was scum, his saying you're town confirms you still, don't worry.

[Klazam]

I'm VT, implied that awhile back.

Not moving me vote off of you,sorry.

[Klazam]

Eh. I'll wait to hammer for at least a little. No rush

I'm so proud of you now. You learning!


Serious note- twoface/emp is town, mulch is town, if boon was town, that leaves me and fykus to lynch between tomorrow. Hang fykus, not me. Mulch, don't waver on emp/two-face because they're town, the chances of the mafia not having another power role if all pr claims so far is town is miniscule.

Choose between me and fykus. I'll answer any and all questions from you tomorrow after this Lynch.

---
And yeah boon is at fault here.

[Klazam]

Mulch, think about it- what resulted from him claiming to have checked you? Towncred outta the ass, and your quick hammer on Trivium shows that you're not that much of an asset to the town. Then his checking of dunk.. who died. Also claimed to check fykus, but he was lying? Exactly how much town power did his claims increase? I'd say not at all...

[Klazam]

Klazam has been on the right side of every lynch wagon in the game (well, except this one if it goes through)

Nah. I would have voted Branson and trivium eventually. I don't deserve towncred for that.

[Klazam]

Alright, that's a relief.

Do we need to nolynch here?

[Klazam]

WTF is this. BOTH MAFIA BUSSED day 1?

Recall carca did not want to vote tchill.

[Klazam]

Mulch, why is no lynch the best option? Mafia will kill you tonight, leaving us at the exact same situation tomorrow with no conftown.

[Klazam]

VOTE: no lynch

Then we will see.

[Klazam]

Yeah I was last second on the tchill wagon- recall I was flip flopping between taco and him. I think tchill's reaction on my vote would show me as town, but.. shrug.

[Klazam]

No, you're right a no lynch is the correct choice here. I would prefer to have the conftown having a chance at being the deciding vote here.

[Klazam]

Lemme think about this a few mins though.

[Klazam]

Who did he check? Two-face, emp, and who

[Klazam]

Ok. Fuck.

I'm suddenly not confident on emp. Why would a vanilla cop (assuming mafia) invesigate, find vanilla, and shoot him.

Also the taco kill on n2 so cleanly implicates emp.

[Klazam]

Fykus's a 3 shot, he checked taco, emp, and two-face so he's done with all 3 shots here.

[Klazam]

I know I know. It's me been pushing that line of thought

[Klazam]

But look at this setup- vig, oddnight cop(balanced by oddnight roleblocker), gunsmith (balanced by so many gun power roles), and vanilla cop(balanced by two goons)

[Klazam]

Everything's telling me to go for fykus here, but there's a portion of me saying wait, but...

UNVOTE:

At this point I think mulch's night kill is assured so no point no lynching

---
I realize that I feel maniuplative. Sorry for that but like there's no other way for me to say what I needed to say I think.

[Klazam]

Also in Fykus's fakeclaim mind does he really think of THAT? Unless he's a mafia vanilla cop, which would make sense...sigh

Wouldn't make sense connected to the taco invesigate and kill honestly. That's what's twigging me about the whole goddamn thing

[Klazam]

If I were scum, why wouldn't I keep pushing for fykus?

[Klazam]

This is lylo isn't it tho

[Klazam]

But your post about how it's you and fykus only sigh yesterday felt too oBVIOUS to be a wolf

Fuck. And now I don't know about that anymore.

---

Exicited? Where are you seeing that?

[Klazam]

Alright I'm decided. Not changing my mind after this point.
VOTE: no lynch
---

I swear a lot. Don't read anything in that.

[Klazam]

You're town. What the fuck am I supposed to be doing?

[Klazam]

Okay I get what you mean.

It's about me trying to convince you that I'm town (which I am).

Sorry if that feels maniuplative. Right now, in my eyes, the only route to a town victory lies with you not lynching me. I know that scumMe would feel the exact same way here. So I think what should happen here is for you to look back to previous day's and just me from those days not today.

[Klazam]

Shit man, thinking about today, I'd play this the exact same way if I was scum. wow.

[Klazam]

Hm. Actually no. I'd have stayed on fykus, to stay constient with my potion on the previous day.

[Klazam]

Position.

[Klazam]

Oh god. Just thought of a lylo scenario mafia could put us in that would be a nightmare here.

[Klazam]

I believe that it won't happen. I have to.

Gonna shut up now. Sorry for spamming the thread

[Klazam]

I ain't saying

[Klazam]

Why

Because If I say, scum will put us in that scenario

Also that carc post isn't anti-me. If anything, it's defending me.

[Klazam]

Defending me when I had a single RVS post lol

[Klazam]

What is rules of 3

[Klazam]

Ah

[Klazam]

Also doodles and Fykus have hardly anything on them wth?
The only thing against them is mostly gut. :/

Also thats a VT claim by Tchill right?

Hardgroup

Both scumbuddies mentioned in the same post?

[Klazam]

Don't forget me trying to convince carc to vote tchill. There's that also

I was talking about tchill/fykus

[Klazam]

For reference I'm leaning emp right now

[Klazam]

I don't think that post is alignment indicative at all. Was just a lol moment

[Klazam]

If fykus was scum I was scared that fykus would kill off emp, considering that you're leaning me more strongly than fykus here.

[Klazam]

Honestly I do not trust you to make the right vote in LYLO, considering your performance in this game up to now.

[Klazam]

I am aware. I am also aware that my every statement here will be taken as being maniuplative, because it probably is given that if I want to win (as either alignment), I CANNOT let you lynch me. So there's a problem for me, eh?

[Klazam]

I read that post more of a wtf man why are you not going with your post which was amazing and implicates taco as scum

[Klazam]

Was wondering that

[Klazam]

Ah I wasn't present in the game at that point that list was made, probably why that happened

[Klazam]

Yeah I want a no lynch. I have a strong feeling mulch isn't dying here, meaning it'd narrow down things between fykus and emp for me.

[Klazam]

Feeling a lot better about mulch's decision making here, I'm ok with you casting the deciding vote

[Klazam]

How do you address the taco kill from the context of fykuscum though?

[Klazam]

Main thing thats drawing me to empscum here

[Klazam]

Convince me that it's not emp again, please. Without tchill/carc interactions

[Klazam]

Tchill did vote emp at one point for pushing a lurkerlynch

[Klazam]

Tchill did vote emp at one point for pushing a lurkerlynch

Show?

lemme find it, one sec

[Klazam]

its in my notes somewhere

[Klazam]

VOTE: empiricus

Who you thinking here, Taco?

Idk right now. We need more people to post. I mean i was just thinking, know what would be funny? if we all townies argue and lynch each other, doing scum's work when some people haven't posted yet and they could be scums. xD

This is what Mafia is all about.
I can almost guarantee you that at least one scum is lurking right now waiting for exactly that.

I'm not opposed to just lynching the least active player unless someone in play is actively scummy. At least in the first round, since that is the round that is both the easiest to float through and the one that leaves the most data to go through after a lynch.

[Klazam]

Also, my post earlier today explains a way that empgoon makes sense

[Klazam]

But look at this setup- vig, oddnight cop(balanced by oddnight roleblocker), gunsmith (balanced by so many gun power roles), and vanilla cop(balanced by two goons)

[Klazam]

False positives

[Klazam]

I like twoface's point about the scumteam pushing on fykus as a weak distancing tactic also here.

I guess that I could do this. If I stick to what I thought yesterday, fykus is the scum here, yeah.

[Klazam]

ok, you have me re-convinced.

VOTE: fykus

gonna go watch wentworth. see you all again in a couple hours.

[Klazam]

Fykus has so many points againt him, and also, something is bothering me, we all do skipdays so we all have to confirm to him, yet he never is online?

idk if you can read anything into this, considering it is also true for emp

[Klazam]

Let's just get this over with now. Fykus and Klazam, vote each other.

Empiricus and I will brainstorm

done.

if you guys end up wanting to lynch me, let me get back first though.

[Klazam]

VOTE: Fykus

no, you brainstorming with emp is a solid plan here.

[Klazam]

@Klazam I'm confirming Emp as town rn

gotcha. since emp is here, you were right on him being town.

thank god.

[Klazam]

alrighty then.

need anything from me or can i go watch tv??

[Klazam]

might as well get both on this vote today because a nolynch changes nothing, its either me or fykus who hangs.

[Klazam]

Sorry i havent posted yet today. Im at work so its hard to do much of anything since im phone posting. How can it be lylo with 3 town 1 scum? Also im not doubting you or anything but how are you town conf again? Im happy with a no lynch if thats what you guys want. However id prefer you wait til i finish work so i can take a good look at the game. Will be home in 7 or 8 hours

tis mylo, functionally the same as lylo. We're not no-lynching because both emp and mulch is conftown at this point, meaning a nolynch will not change a thing

Mulch is conftown by boon clearing him, and emp is conftown by dint of him not hammering you, fykus.

[Klazam]

Also im not doubting you or anything but how are you town conf again?

sure this might just be confirmation bias at this point but just look at the above quote....

[Klazam]

dude, mulch was conftown since fucking D2

[Klazam]

My gut is telling me Klazam is scum but wtf is this showing by Fykus

Hey, do me a favor. Don't gutread me based on my posts today, considering my motivation to stay alive is now the exactly same, regardless of my alignment. Gutread on me today should be a bit scummy I believe. Mom's

[Klazam]

Ignore the mom phoneposting and my phone is slightly broken

[Klazam]

I know this is kinda wifom if I bring it up, but I would like you to read Taco's stance on me, and then consider why I would kill off someone who were reading me that strongly as town that early in the game.

I'm not gonna make case on fykus because it'd 100% be confirmation bias and probably be the same if I was scum.

Make the right decision, hang him and not me.

[Klazam]

im aware. still go read his stance.

[Klazam]

taco kill has been on my mind awhile, tbh.

[Klazam]

ah,, like i said, you cant really read anything into my play today because i'm playing the same way as either alignment- "I MUST STAY ALIVE"

so just go read my prior play and base your read off that, not today.

gonna stop talking i guess

[Klazam]

god no, please

[Klazam]

Klazam talk to me here

what?

[Klazam]

What do you need to hear from me?

because i mean, im town, and i got no idea what else i can say here.

[Klazam]

if i try to make a case on fykus, wouldnt be any different from what i'd do as scum due to conf bias

honestly i dont know wth i can do here because i now have knowledge of fykus' alignment and that makes my play different.

[Klazam]

because?

you need to be convincing emp at this point also.

[Klazam]

I was freaking out that i might be giving emp a pass here, because of his vote on branson among other things. you convinced me that my inital read was right, thank fuck on that though.

[Klazam]

Empiricus what do you think of Fykus's akawardness today.

Also, I totally feel how you think Klazam might be manipulative, but do you really think the scum woudl leave Klazam as their top town?

I don't see enough in it to warrant a scumread. I'd prefer to see Fykus do some more reasoning about Klazam, you, me and the game though. But Fykus early post 1092 felt good to me with regards to Klazam. Klazam later responded to it in 1128.

And regarding both scum placing Klazam as their top town: I don't think they planned on losing two on their team the same night, so I can't guess how they planned to work on with what they did day one.

Mulch, could you kindly elaborate for me what you mean with your rule of three?

what can i say to help you form a correct read on me?

[Klazam]

because im indecisive. boon's meltdown made me doubt things a bit, then i solidified on fykus, then when day started, i doubted myself again.

i mean, look at how many times i flipflopped in this game already.

[Klazam]

Because of "prove my claim" line?

[Klazam]

And the "wait, how are you guys confirmed town again" is also REALLY townie for fykus

no, it isnt. hes playing dumb, hes seeing me look maniuplative, and hes taking the opposite angle. thats how i feel here, honestly.

[Klazam]

consider, gunsmith caught him, he has to claim a cop role of some kind, so he claims vanilla cop.

huh lemme look at wiki, just had a thought

[Klazam]

In Normal games on mafiascum.net, a Gunsmith gets guilties on all Mafia (except Traitors and Doctors), Cops, Vigilantes, Gunsmiths, Role Cops, Vanilla Cops, Backups of roles with guns and JoATs that have any of these listed powers. A Werewolf faction should be treated the same as any other Mafia family.

"cop= claimed already, gunsmith= in game, vig= in game, role cop= looks bad for mafia, vanilla cop= yes! imma claim this"

think about it.

Fixed broken quote tag.
-TB

[Klazam]

fuck. quote broke. you get the point

[Klazam]

also consider- is there any way to actually prove his claim at that point in the game? no. im pretty sure he knew that.

[Klazam]

my god, thinkbig is amazing.

Indeed I am. Don't you forget it either.

[Klazam]

So I just did a quick ISO, and Klazam

is

scumhunting/sorting. The fykus case is incredibly flawed on its main point, and mulch just aimlessly sheeped it.

Spoiler:

exactly. you know i can read you as town or not. but youre making a big ass deal out of it and taking it too seriously right now.

Are you there? If so, respond to this question in the next 5-10 mins. if you miss that time slot ill ignore the answer you come up with.

Why are you scum?

okay yeah. VOTE: Sergtacos Youre being OVERLY aware of your selfmeta and manipulating your play to fit within that meta. Die. Im sorry bro, i didnt want to hang you on D1 but there it is.

The thing here, is that your reactions is EXACTLY what i expected you to say. Exact. so that reads to me youre thinking about what im expecting to see and giving me that, which is scummy as fuck.

WHOA WAIT- You want your vote to stay on me, then try to say "TvT" in the same post. explain.

its not that you called him scummy, its the manner in which you did.

VOTE: two-face

I'm just extremely disappointed that you didn't go "oh I see your point, that could be true", that'd have conftowned you to me. You're too careful.

Still a null to me

Mulch- 6 pages of nothing that important then a couple pages of me and sergtacos.

Being too defensive

He's focused on defending instead of going with it and pushing others.

Taco, I could care less about your read of me, I'm just trying to figure out your alignment, and you're not doing things right

I've told you, defensiveness by itself is okay but you're only doing that without scumhunting. Focused on self= scumny

2face: i just iso'd you. its literally consisting of you attacking people for expressing suspicion of you. 100%. you call people liars for trying to read you- the first one because that person said you overreacted- which you did- then the second because you placed a omgus vote- WHICH YOU DID, IN ESSENCE.

Then your ad hom attacks on me. <sergtaco: ad hom = ad hominem = attacking the person instead of addressing the arugement, which is what he did by insinuating im bad enough at this game and i need to go play newbs>

Oh, while you did that, you also tried to say that i thought you were scummy BECAUSE you called someone scummy? FALSE. I said its the manner in which you did so.

you okay, bud?

also emp, this is a response from boon about fykus's 1092 regarding me.

[Klazam]

What I'd really like right now is for Fykus to come in and present a case on why he thinks that Klazam is scum based on his own reasoning from the game. I want to be clear that I'm not really townreading Fykus either at the moment and if I don't see some solid reasoning from him he'll sink to prime scum in my eyes.

problematically, fykus's reaction to this will be NAI.

think about what i said earlier regarding me not making a fykus case because of confbias, and realize it applies to fykus here also.

[Klazam]

fair enough.

[Klazam]

[Klazam]

i honestly want to know why boon tried faking a inno on fykus.

[Klazam]

This was a pretty damn good game though.

ThinkBig, you were amazing.

[Klazam]

Another question, how was i obvtown? I see in dead thread lots of mentions of this.

[Klazam]

And thirdly, any feedback on my play?

[Klazam]

At the very least, I definitely would never have been lynched if that didn't happen.

you werent really involved in the game at that point, i felt...

[Klazam]

realize that your lynch doesnt mean a loss, you could have came up with a case or something instead of going "oh im not gonna keep playing"

but ah well, past is past, we still won, so.

Twoface, relax a bit.

[Klazam]

mulch was partly convinced fykus was scum because "town having 3 invesigatve roles makes no sense"

[Klazam]

How could i have played that last day differently though? I was posting, and looking at myself Holy shit this is so scummy...

[Klazam]

Fykus got lynched because of setup reasons though. Literally cause mulch figured his claim had to be fake because of setup

mulch was partly convinced fykus was scum because "town having 3 invesigatve roles makes no sense"

But how long would it have taken for Fykus to have been lynched if we didn't waste two lynches first?

Boon was being hanged at that point regardless, and you werent even playing. dont think its a waste of 2 lynches.

eh, this going nowhere, dropping the subject.

[Klazam]

My feedback?

[Klazam]

RVS shitposts is fine, but beyond that lolno