Mini Normal 1929 - Game Over
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awesomeusername Goon
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awesomeusername Goon
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Why? Is it because he doesn't seem to care about scumhunting? Because that's the only negative I see in his posts so far.
Also why? Is this a townread?MarioManiac4 wrote:I am against the Scorpious lynch.awesomesignature-
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awesomeusername Goon
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awesomeusername Goon
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awesomeusername Goon
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@Steel: What are you hoping to accomplish with your non-vote?
Part of me agrees with you, part of me thinks it's just null.In post 147, Tchill13 wrote:Honestly you're probably both town. I doubt you'd bring attention to yourself as scum early day 1 with that sort of thing.
UNVOTE:awesomesignature-
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awesomeusername Goon
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awesomeusername Goon
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I like this push. It's similar to what I was thinking earlier.
VOTE: I Am Innocent
@Steel:
@Tchill:In post 150, awesomeusername wrote:@Steel: What are you hoping to accomplish with your non-vote?
Like I kind of agree with you, but if he's town he shouldn't just no-vote. If he keeps doing nothing, it really looks like he just doesn't know how to pretend to be town. What I'm expecting is that he'll say "I wanted to see who was going to vote me because they must be scum jumping on an easy target," which is frankly a terrible way of catching scum, and also an easy way for scum to get some fake-scumreads. Hopefully I'm wrong, though. Do you lean town on him?In post 198, Tchill13 wrote:I was wondering how long it would take people to start voting steel. Wouldn't scum try to blend in more though?awesomesignature-
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awesomeusername Goon
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awesomeusername Goon
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To elaborate on that, in the scenario I described, I'd find him hard to read because town motivation and scum motivation could both be present - maybe he really does think he's scum hunting? I don't think I'd be comfortable scum reading him just for pulling a dumb reaction test, but I certainly wouldn't be town reading him either. Regardless, it'd be great if he turned out to be a super useful and insightful townie.awesomesignature-
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awesomeusername Goon
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I didn't mention it in thread, but I did reach out to IAI in 178 because he was pinging me and I wanted to get a feel for him. He still hasn't answered.In post 213, alban wrote:
Can you direct us to the post where you were thinking on these lines?In post 205, awesomeusername wrote:I like this push. It's similar to what I was thinking earlier.
VOTE: I Am Innocentawesomesignature-
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awesomeusername Goon
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@Steel:
Can you unpack this for me, please? I more or less agreed with Mario's train of thought.Steel wrote:
If I get responses like this I should do this every game.In post 239, MarioManiac4 wrote:I feel like it's a really awkward reaction test though.
Like, Steel votes no lynch, sure, w/e.
But when he does it again, that's just trying to force a reaction when none exists. It's not going with the actual flow of reactions, it's like "HI GUYS DID YOU REMEMBER I EXIST YEAH I'M GOING TO DO THIS REACTION TEST YAY PLEASE RESPOND SO I CAN GET THE TOWNCREDIT"
@LUV: How are you not fluffing? >.>awesomesignature-
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awesomeusername Goon
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Or I guess why is that a bad reason to vote you?In post 259, awesomeusername wrote:@LUV: How are you not fluffing? >.>awesomesignature-
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awesomeusername Goon
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So it looks like a lot of the people I actually want to push - IAI, Scorpious, and to a much lesser extent LUV - are inactive/busy/replacing out/whatever. :/ Io has already explained what I find sketchy about IAI, more or less; the only thing I have to add to 204 is that 116 pings me for putting off a question he has for later so it comes across as more of a threat than an attempt to get a read. That said, rereading his posts, my suspicions are weaker than I remember them being.
Scorpious feels scummy to me I think because of his aggressive tone. I'll have to read some of his other games to see whether he's always like this, but there's some stuff that reads to me more like discrediting than trying to push someone as scum or read them. Notably 266 calls the wagon on Steel scum-motivated but there's not really any follow-up to that? Looking back, I guess he's been busy after that, so maybe he just hasn't had time, I dunno. There's also too much theory-talk for how much he's said, IMO, but that could be style, too.
@Scorpious: Can you look closer at the Steel wagon and tell me which votes/pushes/posts in particular you're reading as scum-motivated?
I guess if LUV is replacing out this doesn't matter as much, but he just hasn't said much relevant to the game at all, sorta what everyone else is already saying. This read is significantly weaker than the others, as I said.
I'm having a really hard time reading the whole Vedith/Carcalilly/Mario thing. Like, there's a lot of joking around and it's really hard for me to tell when they're joking and when they're being serious. It looks like some serious stuff has come up in the last few pages, and I'm tempted to just sheep my town reads and jump on Mario. Really, they're all null for me right now - I feel like they could get away with saying just about anything and then be like "lol, jk" afterwards, which really bothers me. But I've seen something resembling scumhunting from each of them which is why they're not in the same category as LUV. On the other hand, Vedith wouldn't actually expect anyone to believe stuff like the claim in 299, would he? I don't know whether this is town messing around, town legitimately going for reads, or scum looking useful. Or scum messing around, I guess. Sounds like he does this a lot and it's not particularly alignment-indicative? Can someone confirm this?
Anyway, I'll definitely look more into Vedith/Carcalilly/Mario after getting some sleep; I'm too tired to untangle it right now.
UNVOTE: for now.
Oh, also albans gets a town point for getting conversation started again.awesomesignature-
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awesomeusername Goon
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@Tchill: I don't believe Vedith's claim. I mean, it's not in the list of normal roles, and this is a normal game, right? So I unless I'm mistaken it's a confirmed fake claim? Also @Tchill, can you explain why you think Scorpious is town? And what changed your read on me between 437 and now?
I read through some Scorpious meta and I see more shade-casting from him in this game than other games. But the other games I read include both town!Scorpious and scum!Scorpious, so there's not really a meta case here. I still think it's fairly scummy though.
@Scorpious: It makes sense for Vedith to out here because having three clears is really powerful. It's a role that can't exist in this game though.
It's bothering me how Vedith is using his claim to try to steer the lynch. Like, I think this sort of fake claim gambit itself is probably not alignment indicative, especially from Vedith, might even come from town more than scum, but this just feels really manipulative. Also, if Vedith is scum, I don't like how Tchill is trying to give credibility to the claim.
VOTE: Vedith
@Vedith: Could you give up the fake claim and give your actual reads please? Otherwise I'm just going to assume that you're hard-townreading Carca, Tchill, and alban, and that 425 is your actual reads.
I'm town reading Carcalilly. Also Io and Steel are my strongest town reads - I don't think I've said that yet. Rereading Mario, nothing pings me here either.
@Mario: Who do you think is scum right now?
Why_Mafia's case on alban seems fair. I still think alban's good outweighs his bad at the moment but I'd like to see him respond.awesomesignature-
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awesomeusername Goon
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The good is a lot of gut, but I think's mostly that you seem to be processing the game trying to read people, and it feels to me like it's coming from a town mindset. You've also been generating discussion in a way that I like.In post 497, alban wrote:
Would like to respond to what according to you is my good and bad. Elaborate, please.In post 496, awesomeusername wrote: ..
Why_Mafia's case on alban seems fair. I still think alban's good outweighs his bad at the moment but I'd like to see him respond.
The bad is more an accumulation of little things. I don't like 158. For all your probing, you haven't really given many reads, which could be fence sitting. I sort of feel like you've been coasting a bit lately, just asking people for stuff without giving much. What it comes down to, I think, is that a lot of your posts are pro-town and helpful, but are the sort of thing that scum can do too. I'd like you to respond to all of Why_Mafia's case, though.
Correct.Scorpious wrote:Just so I am clear here. You do not believe it,and your reasoning is based on how the game would be set up, correct?
@Ircher: Can you confirm that all roles in this setup are normal?
I don't think it's a joke, it's gone on too long and he's using it to influence people's votes. What do you think of the people who believe the claim? Do you think that's alignment indicative?In post 502, Io wrote:So fake claiming does not equal scum.
Especially when it's so obviously fake like that. It can only be a joke and there's no reason to even take it seriously.awesomesignature-
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awesomeusername Goon
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This is what's making me doubt myself. :/ You seem to have experience with him, do you think this is town Vedith or scum Vedith? And why?In post 511, MarioManiac4 wrote:Vedith is being Vedith lolawesomesignature-
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@Mario: Fair enough. I'm not actually scum-reading him very hard right now, but I'm not scum-reading anybody very hard right now, so I don't really know what else to do.
@albans: Yeah, I'm not surprised that you don't like gut as a reason. But fair enough, I'll let you prove yourself on your own terms.
Why are you scum-reading Io?awesomesignature-
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awesomeusername Goon
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I'd jump on you for this, but I'm kinda getting uncomfortable with this wagon myself.In post 557, Steel wrote:VOTE: Llamafluff
He is doing the exact same thing as me, but I feel like from him its scummy.
And yeah, @Vedith, I'm AUN.
@alban: Your vote is on Vedith but he's at the top of your town list.awesomesignature-
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awesomeusername Goon
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I don't like this case. I think we interpreted some things much differently.
When you say "passive reads" do you mean that Carca's reads are lazy or that you have a gut read?In post 567, LlamaFluff wrote:@AUN - Carcllily is my strongest scum read if you entirely ignore everything going on with Vedith. Passive reads for the most part mixed with an approach to the Vedith claim where they seem to want to defend them, but are never able to present a good reason to do such. That is the type of approach that scum who got "cleared" either by scum OR town faking a claim would most want to take as they have a free pass to do whatever. Especially seeming to attack MM for pushing on Vedith post claim (which that push IS the correct town reaction) they are a great pick for scum here. If Vedith is scum, it just makes the read that much stronger.
I'm fairly confident based on 332 that Carca didn't believe Vedith's claim. Can you please provide evidence that she believed the claim? Otherwise it doesn't make sense for her to feel "cleared."
And that's not how I read her attack on Mario. Wasn't Mario's push on Vedith because he was making Pokemon puns? So not serious? And Carca's scumread on him for completely separate reasons?awesomesignature-
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awesomeusername Goon
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@Llama: In 332, Carca quotes in big letters "Vedith is known for fake claiming," which suggests to me she thinks it's a fake claim. 319 is weird, though, and I can understand why you read that as believing the claim. It could definitely be a slip of some sort. But I still think 332 suggests that she didn't believe the claim by the time she was attacking Mario. And I thought you were arguing that the Mario push was bad because Mario had just attacked Vedith and she wanted to preserve her status as a clear?
Carca's read progression on Mario didn't ping me, and I don't think the vote placement is that bad. Agree about laziness and lack of actually pushing things. I'd chalked that up to V/LA, but she wasn't better before. And fulfilling self-scum-meta is pretty bad, too.
I see where you're coming from now, although some of your case is different than what you said before. Like, wasn't the Mario push also strategic for scum!Carca because of the whole Vedith claim situation? Because that's the part I really had problems with. Is that not part of your argument? Do you disagree that 332 suggests she doesn't believe the claim?
UNVOTE:
Sigh, I actually felt good about that vote.
@Why Me: I was scum reading Llama largely because 567 seemed like an argument based on false information. We might have just interpreted stuff differently though. :/ I'm still uncomfortable with the way he handled Vedith - felt like a surface level read, Steel said it well in 566. And I already had the slot at null-scum when Llama replaced in.
As for town-blocking, I'm town-reading you right now but not strongly? So probably not. Why do you town-read Llama?awesomesignature-
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@Tchill:In post 496, awesomeusername wrote:Also @Tchill, can you explain why you think Scorpious is town? And what changed your read on me between 437 and now?awesomesignature-
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awesomeusername Goon
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@Carca: Read 590.
You're like, exactly fulfilling your self scum meta, and your reads seem pretty surface-level.
@Llama: I kinda think Vedith will be easier to read in the future. These trollish types tend to settle down a little bit after Day 1. I'd prefer Carca because her non-trolly posts are scummier IMO.
@Scorpious: What are your thoughts on Carcalilly and Vedith? I don't think you've given any opinions on them yet.awesomesignature-
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awesomeusername Goon
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@Io: Really, a Vedith and Carca team!? I was just thinking that was near-impossible if there are only two scum, given how Vedith helped swing the wagon on Carca in 568, and also expressed suspicion in 542, 558, and I think some earlier posts, although the seriousness of those is debatable.
Also, I initially didn't like Llama's statement about Scorpious either, but it's actually really smart - if Scorpious is scum with Vedith or one of Vedith's "clears," he knows for sure that the claim is a lie. And his posts really look like an inexperienced player who was caught off guard by the claim and feel for it. Does that make sense? That said, I agree that his play has been generally scummy.awesomesignature-
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awesomeusername Goon
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Ugh, this is a mess. Reading the last four pages or so has given me an actual physical headache.
Before I decide my lynch preferences, I want to describe where I'm at with both Vedith and Carcalilly. Hopefully this will help me organize my thoughts. Please feel free to correct me if I'm completely misunderstanding something.
Vedith
Against: He's been blatantly anti-town. He faked some results for a long time, long enough for some people to actually believe them, and tried to manipulate people's reads with them. He also used it to deflect, or at least stall, giving some actual opinions. Actually, he dodges questions in general A LOT. He doesn't give reasons for any of his reads but just sheeps or expects to be sheeped. The Carca scumread did kinda come out of nowhere and was really convenient, both in timing and in picking someone who was already under some suspicion by the people scum attacking him. The last few pages I didn't like how he's dismissive and discredited people by calling them stupid or saying they're doing nothing or whatever. There's also the argument that it's worth getting rid of him to keep the game less of a headache, or that we shouldn't let players get away with the sort of stuff he's been doing. The trolling itself gives him probably too much deniability, which is problematic. Like, how am I supposed to read him if this is his town play?
For: For all the blatant anti-town stuff, I kinda feel like there's some truth to "he's just being Vedith"? Like, I can understand how that fake claim, while annoying, could be a reaction test, and I can't deny that it did actually get some interesting stuff going. And while he is kinda rude when making points, they're sometimes good points. Mario and Carcalilly seem to be the ones with experience with him, and they both either said he was town or didn't want to lynch him up until Carca in 695, and that was 1) not a meta scumread and 2) jumping on her counter wagon. As a disclaimer, I haven't done a meta dive; I probably should but frankly I don't want to read more Vedith right now.
Carcalilly
Against: This is gonna be a lot of copying from 590, but I want to clarify which parts of that I find scum-indicative and which I don't. Up until the wagon on her, I agree she has seemed "detached" from the game, in that she hasn't really dug around very much. She's been careless with her vote, and dropping the alban read because of Vedith's fake claim does kinda read like she wanted to be conf-town. Some of her reads are pretty surface-level, and aside from the mario push, very, very few of her posts have been relevant aside from the occasional surface read - all this joking around gives her too much deniability, too, I think. The recent switch on Vedith is pretty convenient. And worst of all, she gave self scum meta and is playing to it, and has been more or less all game. Also if Vedith is town and is as good at reading her as he claims, there might be something to that.
For: I did townread her earlier, and that was partially because tone and partially because she was interacting with the outside world (i.e. not Mario and Vedith) more than the other two were. I don't have a problem with the Mario push, that seems fine and the read progression seems ok. Actually, I liked it - I think that also contributed to my earlier townread. I don't read that heavily into her votes not aligning - if anything I feel like that's something scum would be more aware of? Also the recent inactivity and not doing anything besides defending herself could be because of her V/LA. Actually, dropping alban could be due to the V/LA as well.
Sorry for fence-sitting. I just haven't come up with a picture that makes sense yet. :/awesomesignature-
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awesomeusername Goon
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awesomeusername Goon
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I feel like the Carca flip more or less clears Llama, which is good because I didn't townread him before. Also notable: Llama's logic about Scorpious in 612 holds, so I'm inclined to think he's town as well. This leaves me leaning town on everyone. :/ My weakest tier of town reads has Scorpious, alban, and Why Mafia, so I guess I'll start here.
@WM: I would also like to know why you town-read me, especially after these flips.
@Mulch: What do you think of Scorpious's reaction to Vedith's claim?
I agree that we should be looking at the wagons yesterday. IMO the worst ones on Vedith were WhyMafia's and Scorpious's, just in terms of lame reasoning/sheeping, and none of the votes on Carca ping me except for maybe Why Mafia again. But that doesn't particularly feel like a bus, although I guess I could see it. The RVS vote on Vedith from alban is just... I don't even know what to make of that. He was pretty upset after Vedith got lynched, which felt genuine to me. Io's was a strange interaction too, but I thought the rage quit was kinda town. I might be confbiasing there, though. Llama I felt was the driving force behind the Vedith lynch, although I also feel that he helped catch Carca? Like at one point I was scum reading Llama for attacking Carca badly, which doesn't make any sense if they're both scum.awesomesignature-
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awesomeusername Goon
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Llama made the most compelling case on Carca, if I recall. I think most everyone else on the wagon except for Steel, whose reasons I don't recall, either sheeped that case or was just like "Carca is scummy." I mean 590 was Llama's strongest case on Carca, and then 591 and 592 were both votes towards Carca. Although to be fair, Tchill was scumreading her before that.
Where do you see hedging in his Carca-case? I don't remember getting that vibe.
Also re: Why Mafia, noted.
PEdit: Yeah, agree that those first two reasons are fakeable.awesomesignature-
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Oh, that kind of hedging - I remember him going after both slots, but it didn't really ping me at the time. I felt like he just had two scum reads, although Vedith was partially policy as well. I can definitely see how that's a problem.
@alban: Can you also give reasons for your townread on Carcalilly?awesomesignature-
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@Mulch: I mean that's not the only reason I'm suspicious of Llama. I just brought it up because Steel mentioned it and I agreed.
In 973, am I the person that you're saying is misrepping?
@Steel: Mulch convinced me otherwise with the Llama clear. And my read on Io was one those reads that I looked back on and realized was probably stronger than it should have been. Also, as I said, Llama's case is kinda convincing? It probably helps that I had been thinking about the possibility of Mulch-scum when he posted it. But yeah, you're right, that number's probably too high.awesomesignature-
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@Mulch's 985 (will get to anything else later):
Eh, I was going to quote Llama's post and give you point-by-point which I agreed with and which I didn't (I can still do that if you want), but I don't feel that would be representative of my thoughts because honestly I hadn't read it super thoroughly, just nodded along with some of the points, which I thought was interesting because he's one of my suspects. I agree with his 1) that you seem really self-aware (didn't you call WM out for that a couple of pages ago?), and that that's a minor scumtell, but disagree with 2) because I don't see your indecision thus far as scummy, more just trying to gather information before deciding, and I don't remember you basing anything on tone. Although actually, in retrospect, I suppose you could be waiting to see which wagon takes off, but meh, didn't really get that vibe.
The Io stuff was more convincing on my first read through. :/ I definitely didn't agree with Io's logic on Carca being scum only if Vedith is, and now that it's been pointed out, that is a suspicious conclusion to come to with some questionable logic. And the scum-team makes sense otherwise - Io focusing on Vedith, Carca town reading Io. I guess it's also somewhat convincing what you pointed out that scum wouldn't townread each other without a good reason... not really sure I'm reading that interaction strongly either way. And the point about the MM4 vote, where Io didn't mention she was voting with Carca - that makes sense with them as a scum team. Self-meta is meh, I don't have enough experience to say either way.
Anyway, my train of thought was that your last paragraph of 956 stood out to me, because you said if you were scum you'd be "dominating town and be widely townread," and that's sorta what was happening up until then? (yes, you went on to clarify some differences) Then Llama made a big post pointing at you-scum, and I conf-biased a bit. Then I thought about the remaining suspects - other than you two, I think it's alban or Scorpious. And based on the goon flip, I agree with what someone said earlier (I think you?) that there are likely 3 mafia, so either I'm wrong about one of my harder town reads, both alban and Scorpious are maf, there are only two scum, or one of you two is scum. So I think it's likely that this is TvS because of PoE: you're two of my four suspects. There's also another reason I'd rather not say more on because it's PR spec.
In retrospect though, yeah, that number's definitely too high, because 1) there could be only two mafia total, 2) you're not really as big a scumread for me as the others. Since then, though, it has kinda rubbed me the wrong way that you keep insisting this is TvT? Like the wording of that is kind of weird as opposed to just saying you think Llama's town. I guess it makes based on your scum-case on me, though.awesomesignature-
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@Mulch:
Sorry, I can clarify anything if you want. I don't think your self-awareness is much of a scumtell, in retrospect (thanks for clarifying why WM's stood out to you). And I understand the point you were making in 956.
Agree that Mario is super towny, although I hadn't even considered that interaction with Carca. I thought the way he approached the wagons yesterday was very, very town, and I liked the feel I got from interactions I had with him. Agree that Steel is super towny as well and that he doesn't make sense as a partner to Carca.awesomesignature-
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awesomeusername Goon
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awesomeusername Goon
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I feel like I'm doing a bad job expressing my thoughts on everyone. There are a few reads and reasons I have that I haven't really mentioned because the game sort of moved on, so I'm going to summarize now. The reads themselves are fluctuating a bit; part of the reason I'm doing this is to write out my thoughts and try to sort through my biases.
Spoiler: long
tl;dr:
I think Steel is town.
I think Mario is town.
I don't understand what alban finds scummy about WM. Otherwise I guess he seems town because resonance?
Mulch pings me in a couple ways but he seems town.
A lot of alban's scumminess can be attributed to meta but I'm having a hard time finding a convincing reason to townread him. I want more from him.
I think Scorpious is likely town.
I have some problems with Llama's play but have doubts based on Carca interactions and Llama scum hunting.
Edit: albanawesomesignature-
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awesomeusername Goon
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@Mulch: Did you plan that rant or was it spur-of-the-moment?
Also, you clearly think Llama's lying about certain points. Do you think he's knowingly fudging points or accidentally getting stuff wrong?
@alban (if you're sticking around): Can you present a case on WM-scum please? I don't really see reasons in your ISO beyond "he's not doing anything" and presumably that his case on you is bad.
Also, you said he has "no thoughts." Can you clarify what you mean by a thought? Because he's giving stances and reasoning, regardless of how good or bad you think they are.
@Scorpious: Why do you scumread MM4? I'm town reading him fairly hard right now.
Alban's replace-out kinda makes me want to hard town-read him, but I feel kinda dirty about it because it's for meta reasons.awesomesignature-
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awesomeusername Goon
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What do you mean by "chaining up"? Or is the problem just that you disagree with my reads?In post 1189, MarioManiac4 wrote: i really don't like awesome's chaining up of llama -> alban i'm not particularly feeling scum in either which is what i was saying earlier
I didn't want to put Carca at L-1 while she was on V/LA, and I wasn't ready to lynch yet anyway.In post 1195, LlamaFluff wrote:@AUN - Why did you not ever vote near the end of the day?
@Mulch 1196: Maybe I shouldn't be reading into it quite this much, but alban in particular really replaces out a lot as town. But if you think it's NAI, why'd you move your vote?
@Mulch 1198: Hrmm, I could kind of tell it was at least partially premeditated. That's why I'm not town reading the rage. It's interesting that you think Llama's intentionally making stuff up but are still town reading him. :/ Like I guess making blanket assumptions based on a "tell" is bad but I'm not sure how you can ever get inside someone's head that deeply.
Also, just in general, I'm having a really hard time getting inside your head, thought I'd let you know. I think at least a part of it is experience gap. Can you explain why, say, Scorpious not interacting with Carca indicates town while alban's emotions are NAI? They both just seem like meta to me - I don't see a difference.
@Mulch 1201: The gut scumread might honestly just be intimidation, combined with the fact that he's pretty manipulative. Actually, I'm kinda coming around to him. His reads are evolving, which is good to see.
Also, I don't think Scorpious is scum. What's beetlejuice?
I noticed that, too.In post 1218, alban wrote: The winds changed direction after I left, and so did whymafia's tune.
@Mulch: How certain are you on your read on WhyMafia right now?
@alban:In post 1187, awesomeusername wrote:@alban: Can you present a case on WM-scum please? I don't really see reasons in your ISO beyond "he's not doing anything" and presumably that his case on you is bad.
Also, you said he has "no thoughts." Can you clarify what you mean by a thought? Because he's giving stances and reasons, regardless of how good or bad you think they are.awesomesignature-
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awesomeusername Goon
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Alban, I disagree with some of your logic in 1222. In particular, I appreciate that you think I'm a little townier, but I don't think you should townread me (or bump a scumread to a null or whatever) just for effort. :/ Also, while it's probably "correct" to take your replace-out as NAI, I'm not really sure how that makes Mulch townier. I guess it further shows that he's analyzing thoroughly but like, I've been convinced of that for a while now. Sheeping the majority is a bit scummy though - is that your point?
For what it's worth, alban's and WM's rage both read as genuine to me.
His read on alban evolved when he realized he was misreading alban's read list (1176-1186). And his read on me changed somewhere, because now I'm null. Admittedly, that's not a lot but it's more than before - or maybe I just didn't notice before. I guess you're just reading that as the tunnel intensifying, but it makes me think he has been keeping an eye on the rest of us.In post 1231, Mulch wrote:@Mulch 1201: The gut scumread might honestly just be intimidation, combined with the fact that he's pretty manipulative. Actually, I'm kinda coming around to him. His reads are evolving, which is good to see.
How are his reads evolving........... jesus christ
@Scorpious: What about WM's reaction to alban returning seems fake to you?
I don't think Scorpious' recent posts have been that terrible, although I understand why they're under fire. In particular 1229 pinged me as well, but it's consistent with his play so far of pointing out random things he thinks are scummy, and voting people for single incidents. This general trend is scummy, actually, but for different reasons.
So here's the thing about the recent displays of emotion. If WM's rage is real, that pretty directly points to him being town, because he's mad about being manipulated. If alban's rage is real, that's NAI since he was mostly just offended if I'm interpreting things correctly - I'm kinda town reading it because he has a history of doing this as town, but it's a pretty weak tell because it's meta. Mulch's rage almost makes more sense to me from scum than from town. I mean, I believe you when you say you're really self-conscious as town - so this could definitely come from town-you as well - but like, I don't really understand where some of your statements are coming from if you're town.
@Mulch: Why do you think Llama tunneling you will make town lose? Especially since you're so townread otherwise? Also, wouldn't it be good for you not to be night killed if you're that obvtown and probably one of the better scum hunters in the game?awesomesignature-
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awesomeusername Goon
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I was going to post intent to hammer but I re-read Scorpious and still don't really want to lynch him. As much I dislike his play thus far, I think he's town. I don't really have an alternative to offer, though. :/ I guess if it had to be Scorpious or WM, I'd vote for WM. We've still got time though.
@Scorpious: Can you do me a favor and summarize your understanding of why people are suspecting you? Like, someone voting you has to be town; why do you think they're voting you?
Also, I read some Mulch meta and the posturing and insistence that he's obvtown is pretty typical. He didn't seem that self-conscious in the town-game I read, though. And he's usually more trolly. Admittedly, I didn't look specifically for a game in which someone hard-tunneled him, but I've relieved one concern, I guess.
@Mulch: I understand the motivation for scum not to kill you. I'm asking why Llama's tunnel means auto-lose.In post 1267, Mulch wrote:VOTE: llama
THis is not a vote for scum hunting. This is a vote that says, you lose us the game if you are not killed right now.awesomesignature-
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awesomeusername Goon
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@Mulch: Fair enough I guess.
I think it was 1923? You were lynched D1 but didn't seem too bothered. I only read your ISO though. I also read 1920 but you were actually semi-confirmed town that time so that was different.
I'll let WM elaborate but I don't think this is correct? Edit: Never mind. Thought he just left alban temporarily because it wasn't happening.In post 1358, LlamaFluff wrote:@WM - How are Scorp and AUN your top two scum reads? You were voting alban until just a few pages ago.awesomesignature-
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awesomeusername Goon
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^^^ I think Llama is posting intent there.
See here's why I think Scorpious is town:
1. I actually think he doesn't see why posts like 391 and 1229 have scum motivation behind them, which implies that the scum motivation isn't there. (This is why I asked him why people are scum reading him.) Like, look at what he apologizes for in 471. And I'm inclined to believe 482, although I suppose he could just be covering.
2. He doesn't seem to care whether people townread him. Like the standoff with Mulch's questions doesn't seem like it'd be a good idea for scum-Scorpious.
3. (and this is much weaker) It does seem like he genuinely believed the Vedith claim, which would be impossible if Carca was his partner.
I guess a lot of this is tonal, because it comes down to whether or not you believe what he says (like always in mafia, I guess), and he could be totally suckering me. But I think misunderstanding things and his reaction to the Vedith claim are pretty hard to fake. I think I'd prefer anyone to Scorpious right now except {me, Steel, Mario}.awesomesignature-
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awesomeusername Goon
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Need to think about this claim. I'm more skeptical of Scorpious than before, though.
@Scorpious: The way you'd use a weak doctor is to say (or I guess heavily crumb) beforehand who you're targeting, and then if you die town will probably figure out how. And if you live you have conf-town, which is really good. And since you're 1-shot you can out at that point. Tbh, it's probably even better if you die because then you catch scum.awesomesignature-
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awesomeusername Goon
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awesomeusername Goon
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awesomeusername Goon
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awesomeusername Goon
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awesomeusername Goon
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Ah, I see, that makes sense. I still think he's more town though.
Also, I disagree that WM is a consensual scumread - at least two other people are hard-townreading him - although honestly I think that's a point in his favor.
VOTE: Why Mafia
EDIT: Let's talk about claims as little as possible. Also I might prefer Llama to alban. >.>awesomesignature-
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awesomeusername Goon
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