Mini Normal 1929 - Game Over

[Steel]

No massclaim today please.

[LlamaFluff]

Llama. What do you not understand. About tone being a valid way to read people but also something really easy for scum to fake? I don't understand why this can't go through your brain.

Because you invalidate anything you have based on tone right there.

"valid way to read someone" - fine if you buy that
"easy for scum to fake" - means that any tone reads are useless

Pocketing is not a term that is common here. I literally have never seen it in almost ten years. I think you are looking for "buddying" which is a really weak tell, especially that early in the game and with not much to gain from doing such. Its a more valid tell when you are directing it at a power player in a more pivotal point in the game, not near RVS stage.

I am pushing on Mario because I have zero idea how he is below WM, and I think its really easy to call him town above Steel. Are you trying to just aruge all three of those are obv-town to you?

Massclaim shouldn't happen with a vig flip. If there were other flips we could talk about it but never with that flip.

[Mulch]

WHat is wrong that you can't understand that it's valid and also easy for scum to fake??????????

What is the logic gap here? What don't you understand? I am in shock here, what is not understand that goes through your brain that thinks these are mutually exclusive???

Pocketing and buddying are the same thing in a sense but pocketing is when a scum player tries to get a town player to townread them. Like when Carca did the naked townread on IO.

___________________________________________-


On to an actual topic:

I don't remember why I townread Mario but I remember thinking they were obvious town through my read of day 1. I'd probably have to reread to find hard reasons/specific posts I liked, but their tone was incredible and everything seemed natural. However, I didn't like their excuse/doubt 3 post day today which I sort of pointed out.

Steel was the main person on Carca all game? Unless they hard bussed day 1 with possible 2 scum, I heavily doubt he's scum.

Whymafia is obvious town through meta, he is a fucking horrible scum player and he is naturally scummy as town.

[Mulch]

Like Steel is the type of player you never lynch here. Hardubssing your partner day 1 gives you a day's worth of lynch immunity in my humble opinion.

[Mulch]

Although if there are 3 scum it makes a bit more sense but it still dosen't lol

[awesomeusername]

@Mulch:
Sorry, I can clarify anything if you want. I don't think your self-awareness is much of a scumtell, in retrospect (thanks for clarifying why WM's stood out to you). And I understand the point you were making in 956.

Agree that Mario is super towny, although I hadn't even considered that interaction with Carca. I thought the way he approached the wagons yesterday was very, very town, and I liked the feel I got from interactions I had with him. Agree that Steel is super towny as well and that he doesn't make sense as a partner to Carca.

[Mulch]

Ehh

VOTE: Alban

This is a good wagon for today

[LlamaFluff]

WHat is wrong that you can't understand that it's valid and also easy for scum to fake??????????

What is the logic gap here? What don't you understand? I am in shock here, what is not understand that goes through your brain that thinks these are mutually exclusive???

A valid tell is not something that can be easily faked. Its at best an exceedingly weak tell by your own logic, yet you mention to multiple times very early on. When you immediately undercut your own tell it becomes a joke tell like people trying to argue "over reaction"

Steel was the main person on Carca all game? Unless they hard bussed day 1 with possible 2 scum, I heavily doubt he's scum.

Sort of? He voted him for about 24 hours early in D1. Then moved to Scorpious. Then to Vedith. Then to me ater I pushed Vedith. Then to Carcalilly after I started pushing them.

Volume wise he didn't do much to push the wagon, even if he planted himself there most of the day.

[Mulch]

Llama. Repeat after me. I. Do. Not. Think. That. People. Using. Tone. To. Do. Reads. Is. A. Scumtell

Mulch. Does. Not. Think. That. People. Using. Tone. To. Do. Reads. Is. A. Scumtell

Mulch. Does. Not. Think. That. People. Using. Tone. To. Do. Reads. Is. A. Scumtell

Mulch. Does. Not. Think. That. People. Using. Tone. To. Do. Reads. Is. A. Scumtell

Mulch. Does. Not. Think. That. People. Using. Tone. To. Do. Reads. Is. A. Scumtell

Mulch. Does. Not. Think. That. People. Using. Tone. To. Do. Reads. Is. A. Scumtell

Mulch. Does. Not. Think. That. People. Using. Tone. To. Do. Reads. Is. A. Scumtell

[Mulch]

@alban: Why are you sure he's town? And what are your thoughts on Carca?

There was a substantial overlap between his reads and mine.
His tone appeared the most natural.
His claim was obviously a joke.
Plus, a scum would confuse people, not clear them up, even as a joke. Even if they give tr on a few people, clearing 3 people at once, especially in the early D1 stage is less likely to be scum.
But no, I can't be sure. For the town's sake, let's hope I am wrong.

This stuff in particular is really bad. "His tone appeared most natural" is something that is valid but also something that is REALLY easy for scum to fake. Same with reads overlapping, it's a crappy, scummy reason to townread someone, same as all the other points.

In THIS post I even SAID that tone reading is something that is valid but it's also easy to fake.

This post is bad because it has no analysis and no solving and is just level one stuff, all that is easy for scum to fake. Which INCLUDES tone. Which is valid.

What dont you get

[Mulch]

In terms of steel anyone voting Carca at Eod means they were bussing them, but I guess that I might want to consider if he did look for excuses to get off the Carca wagon like you are suggesting. Might want to look into it. But like honestly are you really looking for bussing in this instance?

[Mulch]

I can tell by the tone of your posts that you think I'm town now. you know what to do. If you insist on tunneling me, it's your own fault

[Mulch]

inb4 calls out for tone.

FYI, the reason I know you think I am town now and are only voting me out of stubbornness (even if your lying to yourself):

Spoiler:

You've gathered much more softness and doubt in your tone towards me, which means you are reconsidering. Don't lie to yourself. Do the right thing.

[awesomeusername]

Mulch, have you explained why you think Llama is town? I can't find it.

[Mulch]

Mulch, have you explained why you think Llama is town? I can't find it.

First; I'm not SURE they are town, just I think that most likely they are town.
Really, the scummy part about Llama is that they are deciding I'm scum and then finding examples to support it, but they've made it clear that's their policy. Their frustration is genuine. I also think the stuff they think are scummy from me can easily come from a misguided town's PoV- The self meta (a lot idiocitically think it's scummy), the "hypocricy" which I think is a misunderstand, the supposed town grabbyness from me with my first post (which is sort of true but again not scummy), and the spew from Io/Carca interactions, which can easily be misinterpreted as w/w as first without realizing that Carca was obviously pocketing IO.

In short, they are wrong, but it's stuff that is coming from a good PoV and is something that I could easily see coming from town.

What's more, a recent developement, the softening and the doubt is something super natural for town while I think scum would continue to tunnel me with their tone as well as the vote.

[LlamaFluff]

This post is bad because it has no analysis and no solving and is just level one stuff, all that is easy for scum to fake. Which INCLUDES tone. Which is valid.

We don't disagree that tone is easy to fake. What we disagree with is that tone is actually anything you can use in a read. You have called people out as having fake tone and good tone, while stating that it is something that is very easy to fake. Saying something that is very easy to fake has anything to do with a read makes no sense. Its just kneecapping your own tell and it feels like filler instead of something you actually believe.

Also why are you voting alban over AUN? I still am confused about alban-scum reads and still have him in that middle pack.

[alban]

Alban I hear you loud and clear about your playstyle. Trust me, I've been there (i barely try day 1 either at least half the games). But my problem isn't really the fact you aren't trying but more the fact you seemed to try to appear like you were solving, but in fact you really weren't. Do you get what I'm saying?

Already answered.

[alban]

@Alban that's why there's something called UNVOTE
If you were so angry that Vedith was obvious town you should've unvoted and pushed for someone else's lynch. I don't buy you, not one bit. Sure, you were formulating cases against everyone, but you just needed one person that you believed to be scum. The fact that the voting was progressing that quickly should've alarmed you. And you hardly did anything early game to be warranted any form of town cred. And before I get called out for giving shade, I already explained his early game posts. His current posts are doing nothing to convince me otherwise. In hindsight, yes lynching him was a mistake. I'll admit that.

That's actually a really good point and something I didn't even consider when I was scumreading Alban before.

1. It was a weekend.
2. There were 4 more days to go till the deadline.
3. I was absent.
4. When I came online I went to pages 20-25 to see if I get a lead.
5. I was so sure that Vedith is a town that I didn't think he would be lynched.
6. I was the first one to vote. It was an RV.
7. You should be looking at people who interrogated Vedith but didn't vote for him. If he was indeed a sensor, that's the group who wold be keeping away.
8. I was Vedith's top townread.
9. Carca was onto me throughout D1. It could be perceived as svs, but read the exchange. It was obvious that they were trying to frame me.
10.
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[alban]

Interaction between WHyMafia and Mulch on page 37 reads fake.
There's super mild questioning, and subtle towncreds handed over to each other from a past game. WhyMafia handled the questions terribly imo. Everything was either a feeling or a belief or tone. There was nothing substantial to their tr-ing or sr-ing someone.

[alban]

If Alban doesn't flip scum I'll eat my imaginary hat

You have already eaten it once with Vedith. How many chances are you gonna get?

[alban]

Self meta is towny, not scummy.

Scum have a HARD time explaining to people through their perceived meta why they are not scum. That's just a fact.

Then why am I sread for my D1 self-meta?

[alban]

On the other hand I like your response lmao and your reasons for scumreading me are valid.

VOTE: Alban

And yeah, me likes Scorpius a bit more now
hmm
when in doubt, push alban!

Who was it you sheeped on D1, WhyMafia?
I am not asking you about D2 coz I know the answer.

[alban]

Steel, I can see the points Llama is making coming from town as well as experienced scum. It's natural to be skeptical of some of the IO stuff, and I think there's a decent chance Llama is just being idiotic. I don't understand the Alban stuff, he hasn't been trying to sort at all and his posts today are extremely scummy, AND he's voting Whymafia for a crappy reason (and who is obvious town).

How is he an obvtown?

[alban]

VOTE: Awesome

So, my vote on WhyMafia is crappy, but your vote on me, then on Llama, then on me again, and now on Awesome, is fantastic? You are voting everyone who disagrees with you or votes you.

[alban]

Nah don't worry, I'm convinced llama is town
@llama don't worry either, your case has been noted. At the current standing in the game, I think I would rather keep mulch alive. Obviously will re-evaluate every day phase. For now, I'm still shakily believing mulch to be town, as well as you.

On looking at Awesome's posts, they're scummy af. However, my gut is screaming town :-:
Like contradictions don't equate to scum (although they mostly do) and the way his thoughts are scrambled, I see a resemblance to my early days in mafia

Posts like these is why you are scummy.
You have no thoughts to offer.