Mini Normal 1946 | Classic Hits | Town Victory!

[Havo]

If you say so.

humaneatingmonkey

Also, I'm in Venice Florida, so I'm about 8 hours from direct Irma hit, so...y'know, maybe don't expect much from me in the next 48 hours?
I already V/LAed with the mod, but just so you guys know also.

Wow! Stay safe and good luck.

[Havo]

Hello peeps. Looking forward to a good and active game.

[Havo]

I have zero experience with a Miller best I can remember. The site I used to play at never used them that I recall.

So Wiki says they are a negative role and usually used to counter or lessen the power of the town cop. And the correct play is to claim early although it's debatable.

And I think a good argument has been made by both sides or at least I can see both sides.

I would hate to have to resolve the slot in LyLo tho. But my gut says scum wouldn't do this on D1.
As the Wiki says the claim usually gets lynched or night killed anyway. Or maybe that was one of you guys that said it.

[Havo]

I think Why is town at this point.

[Havo]

Havo

has just fluffed his way through so far. His first post is chatter, his second post is chatter, his third post is IIoA, and his fourth post is parroting the town consensus on WhyMafia. I don't like this slot

Yes I have fluffed my way thru so far.

Maybe, just maybe it's because we are literally less than 24 hours into a 14 day Day 1 and I've only made my introductory posts of the game.

Holy cow, there's some serious pushing going on right now.

Nice to see I'm in a game with such good players who can develop serious reads less than 24 hours in. That's quite impressive. This should be a quick and easy town win.

[Havo]

thank you Maria I'm an old player, back when 2+2 community POG was the best place for mafia. RVS was never a thing, I actually don't know what RVS stands for, I just know it refers to randomly voting people. our games used to have 12 hour day, 12 hour night times...

This site could be a problem for you then. The name of the game here is patience.
I have no issues with people developing early reads, I'm just not putting a lot of faith in them period.

WM claiming has basically changed the usual dynamic by eliminating the RVS. Which personally was something I liked to evaluate. But I do like the amount of discussion being laid down. The more content the better for me. I have no early reads at this point, nothing I care to bring up. But we're still very early. We have players who have yet to post.

[Havo]

Chip Butty - Tornaga - Havo scumteam?

How confident are you that I'm scum?

Can you give me a number from 1 - 10?

Based on your 24 hour read.

[Havo]

it's probably havo;blue;someone

How confident are you that I'm scum?

1 - 10 please.

[Havo]

you just didn't understand my post

=rand is at 75% villager in a 13er
<rand is whatever is lower than 75% and >rand is whatever is higher than 75%

50% is pretty low and a good d1 lynch.

So in less than 24 hours, based off of introductory posts you determined

I was 50 to 60 % likely town and deserving of your vote to lynch.

Got it.

[Havo]

Chip Butty - Tornaga - Havo scumteam?

How confident are you that I'm scum?

Can you give me a number from 1 - 10?

Based on your 24 hour read.

[Havo]

Don't like his defense

What's not to like?

The only thing I see that I've actually been accused of is Not Scumhunting.

24 hours into the game. And we've still got a handful of people who has barely posted anything.

[Havo]

Am I supposed to be forcing out a read list?

Something I almost never do on Day 1 because it's too early.

[Havo]

you just didn't understand my post

=rand is at 75% villager in a 13er
<rand is whatever is lower than 75% and >rand is whatever is higher than 75%

50% is pretty low and a good d1 lynch.

So in less than 24 hours, based off of introductory posts you determined

I was 50 to 60 % likely town and deserving of your vote to lynch.

Got it.

This doesn't seem natural. It makes me think of "WTF I'm caught for BS reasons"

It's more sarcasm. He's saying he thinks I'm 50/60 % townie yet he still votes me.

[Havo]

I don't think sarcasm is an adequate defence...sorry...

What's the accusation against me exactly?

That I'm scummy? That I haven't defended my self well enough?

[Havo]

I don't think sarcasm is an adequate defence...sorry...

What's the accusation against me exactly?

That I'm scummy? That I haven't defended my self well enough?

Yeah, those.

Sorry, but someone has to go and there isn't any solid evidence on D1. Not sure there is any value in dragging D1 out to a two week talkfest. We just have to go on people's reactions, and yours have been anything but reassuring.

Why so impatient?

Why are you afraid to "Drag" things out?

I mean we barely what 30 hours in and we have people who have barely even posted but yet I'm the best candidate for a lynch?

[Havo]

Shutting down discussion is inherently Anti Town play.

Period.

[Havo]

First of all, obviously I fail to see where I have been scummy.

But just post my scummy remarks and I'll be happy to defend them.

Secondly saying my defense is bad is ridiculous as I don't see anything I have to defend myself for.

I'm at L-2 and no one has yet to post a serious accusation against me.

This wagon on me is terribad. I mean seriously bad.

[Havo]

Don't like his defense

What's not to like?

The only thing I see that I've actually been accused of is Not Scumhunting.

24 hours into the game. And we've still got a handful of people who has barely posted anything.

The fact that you're 'Not Scumhunting' is precisely the problem.

You have a relatively significant number of posts, but very few of them are advancing the game. Instead, you're fluffposting and using sarcasm to discredit people's reads (118, 'nice to see I'm in a game with such good players who can develop serious reads less than 24 hours in').

You seem rather concerned about defending yourself and trying to undermine people's reads on you, and don't seem that interested in looking for scum.

VOTE: Havo

L-1.

Finally a decent accusation.

I'm not scum hunting. Lol.

Yeah I'm not gonna scum hunt until I have a decent amount of content to read. Just the way I roll.

[Havo]

L - 1.

This is where I'd normally say go ahead and lynch me, cause town could do worse.

But this time town could literally NOT do worse.

Lynching me is the worst thing town could do.

[Havo]

Don't like his defense

What's not to like?

The only thing I see that I've actually been accused of is Not Scumhunting.

24 hours into the game. And we've still got a handful of people who has barely posted anything.

The fact that you're 'Not Scumhunting' is precisely the problem.

You have a relatively significant number of posts, but very few of them are advancing the game. Instead, you're fluffposting and using sarcasm to discredit people's reads (118, 'nice to see I'm in a game with such good players who can develop serious reads less than 24 hours in').

You seem rather concerned about defending yourself and trying to undermine people's reads on you, and don't seem that interested in looking for scum.

VOTE: Havo

L-1.

"I seem rather concerned about defending my self"

BECAUSE I WAS BEING ACCUSED OF NOT DEFENDING MYSELF!!

[Havo]

Don't like his defense

What's not to like?

The only thing I see that I've actually been accused of is Not Scumhunting.

24 hours into the game. And we've still got a handful of people who has barely posted anything.

The fact that you're 'Not Scumhunting' is precisely the problem.

You have a relatively significant number of posts, but very few of them are advancing the game.

Instead, you're fluffposting and using sarcasm to discredit people's reads

(118, 'nice to see I'm in a game with such good players who can develop serious reads less than 24 hours in').

You seem rather concerned about defending yourself and

trying to undermine people's reads on you

, and don't seem that interested in looking for scum.

VOTE: Havo

L-1.

Finally a decent accusation.

I'm not scum hunting. Lol.

Yeah I'm not gonna scum hunt until I have a decent amount of content to read. Just the way I roll.

I'm more concerned about the parts that I bolded above. Namely, where you seem to be trying to discredit people's reads.

Well it's because I know their reads are shat.

[Havo]

Shutting down discussion is inherently Anti Town play.

Period.

Discussion is fine but all you keep saying is it's too early to discuss anything because a few players haven't posted much and too early for reads. What if we all took that approach? We'd be twiddling our thumbs until nightfall. How about anandoning your lofty principles and actually giving some reads, instead of just complaining about how unfair it all is?

Nope. I said it was too early for Serious reads.

I said the content being laid down was good. Read my ISO. I stated I need content before I can develop reads.

[Havo]

Shutting down discussion is inherently Anti Town play.

Period.

Discussion is fine but all you keep saying is it's too early to discuss anything because a few players haven't posted much and too early for reads. What if we all took that approach? We'd be twiddling our thumbs until nightfall. How about anandoning your lofty principles and actually giving some reads, instead of just complaining about how unfair it all is?

Yes, forcing out a read list will fix everything I'm sure.

[Havo]

L - 1.

This is where I'd normally say go ahead and lynch me, cause town could do worse.

But this time town could literally NOT do worse.

Lynching me is the worst thing town could do.

[Havo]

Shutting down discussion is inherently Anti Town play.

Period.

Discussion is fine but all you keep saying is it's too early to discuss anything because a few players haven't posted much and too early for reads. What if we all took that approach? We'd be twiddling our thumbs until nightfall. How about anandoning your lofty principles and actually giving some reads, instead of just complaining about how unfair it all is?

This is a terrible post. NONE of this is true.

[Havo]

.

Finally a decent accusation.

How is this a decent accusation, what the fuck?

Because even tho I've explained it, it's the only real accusation against me.

.
Havo, I am fully aware that you could be town who was thrust in this position. However, I think there is a decent chance of scum who was railroaded for the wrong reasons. I know I would HATE to be called that as town, beacuse it means the reasons are shit- which they are. But your tone is in defending is horrible and this claim is bullshit.

My tone is probably coming off horrible because it's Sarcasm. I honest to God can't believe how people are spitting out reads, serious reads, 18 hours into the game. If anyone wants to post reads fine, have at it, but don't accuse me of being scum just because I haven't posted a facking read list by hour 36.
And the claim's not bullshit.

[Havo]

About the Havo soft: If he really is a PR then drawing massive attention to himself by obstinately refusing to provide reads and doing all that complaining was a terrible way to play it. Also the alleged soft was so obvious he might as well have just hardclaimed a big PR. I agree we need to see a fullclaim at this point.

No I haven't played it terrible.

HOW THE FUCK CAN I PROVIDE READS WHEN I DONT HAVE ANY WORTH POSTING YET?!?!?!?!?!

What can't you people understand about that???

If I provide a read list it will come across as forced and not genuine. BECAUSE IT WONT BE!!!!!!!

Why are you not worried about read lists from other posters????????

[Havo]

About the Havo soft: If he really is a PR then drawing massive attention to himself by obstinately refusing to provide reads and doing all that complaining was a terrible way to play it. Also the alleged soft was so obvious he might as well have just hardclaimed a big PR. I agree we need to see a fullclaim at this point.

No I haven't played it terrible.

HOW THE FUCK CAN I PROVIDE READS WHEN I DONT HAVE ANY WORTH POSTING YET?!?!?!?!?!

What can't you people understand about that???

If I provide a read list it will come across as forced and not genuine. BECAUSE IT WONT BE!!!!!!!

Why are you not worried about read lists from other posters????????

there's been plenty of content. Your reactions to votes sucked, which is why I'm scum reading you. You havent questioned anyone either, all you've been focused on is repeated the thing I just quoted.

Your read is wrong. Deal with it.

[Havo]

I find it very amusing how many people aren't reading into havo almost getting MAJed earlier and have no suspicion of the people wagoning him.

Yeah, imagine.

And I still got 4 votes on me. And 2 of them have been on since.

They just waiting to see if the wagon can start back up.

[Havo]

VOTE: havo

Hardclaim or I will tunnel you for the rest of the day

And what will that accomplish??

[Havo]

VOTE: havo

Hardclaim or I will tunnel you for the rest of the day

And what will that accomplish??

The hardclaim or the tunnel?

Either?

[Havo]

VOTE: havo

Hardclaim or I will tunnel you for the rest of the day

And what will that accomplish??

The hardclaim or the tunnel?

Either?

The hardclaim: Force you to claim so if your scum you can't switch up your claim later or avoid getting counterclaimed.

The tunnel: Dually put pressure on you and ~hopefully~ lynch scum if need be

So you're completely fine with putting me? No matter what role I could be?

[Havo]

*Outting.

[Havo]

So you're completely fine with outing me? No matter what role I could be?

No, once you claim a very important power role and are not cced, most likely I will unvote

Tunnel me then.

I'm going to bed. I'll post more tomorrow.

Maybe I'll even question someone and just maybe throw my vote around some.

But no guarantees.

[Havo]

***** My first Read List *****

I'm heavily Scum reading the guys STILL voting me after I have claimed a town PR.

This action alone, a day and a half into a 14 day 1, is scummier than anything I'm

Being voted for in the first place.

[Havo]

longer deadlines benefit scum.


And more importantly, I feel like getting Havo to L-1 will elicit a claim from him.

[Havo]

longer deadlines benefit scum.


And more importantly, I feel like getting Havo to L-1 will elicit a claim from him.

Here's the 1st scum.

[Havo]

Longer deadlines = more discussion which only benefits town.

[Havo]

VOTE: Mulch

[Havo]

Mulch is too good of a player to be pushing a claimed PR this early.

His reasoning of "This is exactly what I did as mafia" is garbage.

Me not wanting to hardclaim a PR 24 hours in is not an unreasonable concept.

[Havo]

I HARD CLAIM -

Loyal Town Cop.

Mulch is the lynch today.

[Havo]

Longer deadlines = more discussion which only benefits town.

This is basic mafia 101.

Also so is unvoting a claimed PR 24 hours in, instead of

Tunneling to force a claim.

Mulch is too good of a player to not know this.

[Havo]

This explains Mulch continuing to push me.

Outing the town Cop is worth it for scum on Day 1.

Congrats Scum.

[Havo]

This also explains Why Mafias Miller claim.

[Havo]

So why didn't you fully believe WM's claim earlier?

Don't mind me, I'm actively avoiding to engage the thread right now.

I posted my support of WM without giving away my role.

[Havo]

Mulch is too good of a player to be pushing a claimed PR this early.

His reasoning of "This is exactly what I did as mafia" is garbage.

Me not wanting to hardclaim a PR 24 hours in is not an unreasonable concept.

Why is this garbage? Your claim is scum 101 some vague ass "oh, I'm a power role!!!"

Where did the term "soft" claim come from? What is a soft claim? Why is there a need for this term?

I soft claimed. That's what one does in that situation.

What's the point of a soft claim otherwise?

You are acting way too damn naive in this game.

[Havo]

You were flip-floppy about it tho, and that's what pinged me the most. You looked like as if you wanted to open an opportunity to jump on that wagon if it forms, but you also don't want to be obvious. Even when you said that he could be town, you said "for now." That's how I read your post about it.

Because I didn't want to give away my role in any way.

[Havo]

You were flip-floppy about it tho, and that's what pinged me the most. You looked like as if you wanted to open an opportunity to jump on that wagon if it forms, but you also don't want to be obvious. Even when you said that he could be town, you said "for now." That's how I read your post about it.

Because I didn't want to give away my role in any way.

I will post more about this later when I get home on my laptop.

I can't post for shit on my phone.

[Havo]

I think Havo's claim could be town. Not much can be said about his performance so far tho. In my experience as a PR, I claimed prematurely under pressure—but that's because there were only 12 hours before deadline. I don't have much experience but I think the motivation for an obvious soft-claim should be the one in scrutiny here. Is that scum or is that town? I can't trust my judgment right now but I think it's town.

I'm so terribly sorry I'm not playing my game up to your standards.

[Havo]

No. You're not playing this game where people can see you as town. That's your real problem.

Well there's a couple here who have TR me.

So ..........

[Havo]

Explain what a loyal town cop does.

Smh. Seriously, between this game and the game I just finished, I feel like i'm in some kind of Mafia Twilight Zone.

I don't know what planet some of you guys learned to play mafia on, but it sure as hell isn't the same one I did.

Asking for specifics of a PR role on Day 1 is Inherently scummy. I just want to note that. So that's the second thing you've done that I consider unforgivable as a town player, the First being forcing a soft claimed PR to Hardclaim on Day 1, then leaving your vote there anyway.

So that puts you in the same boat with Mulch, as far as doing not 1 but 2 things I consider unforgivable as a Town player.

So it's not bad enough you got the town cop to claim in 48 hours, now you want specifics on my abilities. This is exactly why I didn't want to claim at all. It probably doesn't matter since I will most likely be killed tonight anyway, but if town possibly has a protective role and they cover me tonight, I'd rather not let the scum team know how to plan for my ability. Does that make sense?

If this isn't good enough for you, then I suggest you push for my lynch and see if you can get the Scum MVP trophy.

[Havo]

Havo is softing a pr that seems important and that's all the info they need to give if people still sr them focus on them on a later date and see what info they have or let mafia kill them works for us

THIS is how town handles my claim.

[Havo]

I feel the need to say this after the last game I was in and this games start. I was gonna make this my intro post since a few players in here were in my last game, but decided not too.

I freely admit I'm a mediocre mafia player at best, nothing special for sure. I enjoy it for the most part.

My biggest issue is this, I don't have the Super Power ability that apparently some of you here have. The ability to tell a Town Player who does Anti-Town shit, from a scum player who does Anti-Town shit.

So as a result, if you do Anti-Town shit at all, I'm gonna label you as scum, I'm gonna vote you and push you and try to lynch you. But most importantly, I'm not gonna believe your town claim especially on Day 2 or 3 when it's MYLO or LYLO and your telling me how awful of a player I am and demanding I give you town cred because the things you done were no big deal.

My message here is if your a Town Player, then don't do Anti-Town shit at ALL. It only causes confusion. And that only helps Scum. This is how town loses games.

[Havo]

Mulch should be the lynch today.

[Havo]

I think havos lying. The claim is convenient, his overreaction to the whole ordeal seems really disingenuious.

None of this matters though so ill hold off on my vote until tomorrow

Well you're wrong.

[Havo]

Mulch should be the lynch today.

What a thing to come back to. Why the fuck should I be a lynch?

Keep in mind I haven't read much.


Are you still trying to push me as scum for a theory disagreement?

You're scum.

longer deadlines benefit scum.

Town players don't say this shit.

Town players don't force a Hardclaim from a town Soft claimed PR 48 hours into Day 1.

My vote stays on you til you swing. Period.

[Havo]

Spectacular.

I've done all I can do.

Some other townies are gonna have to start playing if they want town to win.

[Havo]

VOTE: havo


Guess what, havo! I'm town and I said that.

This is how town loses games.

[Havo]

Or was it Mulch? Yeah you're hammered.

Pay attention monkey.

[Havo]

VOTE: havo


Guess what, havo! I'm town and I said that.

This is how town loses games.

It's not my fault if your town. I was deciding but then you said you were vote parking on me and never reconsidering, let alone for a theory disagreement, effectively forcing me to vote you back and pray to God your scum and not some misguided horrible town with a bizzare claim.

It's COMPLETELY your fault Mulch,

Fucking Completely.

This is the bullshit I"m talking about. You do blatant Anti - Town shit then claim it's not your fault.

PLay like Town and this doesn't happen.

[Havo]

Also you can hardly call it one of the most powerful roles. Its weak af

You are clueless.

[Havo]

Spectacular.

I've done all I can do.

Some other townies are gonna have to start playing if they want town to win.

[Havo]

Okay, against my better judgement and to not be a stubborn hard ass, I'll give up what I got in spirit of trying to be a team player.

This is what the Mod told me via role PM.

Para phrasing here.

I'm a Loyal Cop, I get to pick one target at night. I'll be told one of 3 things, Player is town, not town or No result.
It will only succeed if I target my own faction. If I target anyone other than my faction, my action will fail.

That's it. Nothing else. I haven't asked the MOd about interaction with a Miller yet.

[Havo]

You really haven't done all you can do. For starters, explain your role and why Loyal Town Cop mixes well with Miller lmao.

Or why he is tunneling a town? Maybe he can explain that?

Because your scum,

[Havo]

These people that are voting me better get the FUCK off of me soon, these are some of the most enraging scumreads I've ever seen in my life, especially one over a theory disagreement, I'm done

PLease.

Town players don't do Anti-town shit.

[Havo]

These people that are voting me better get the FUCK off of me soon, these are some of the most enraging scumreads I've ever seen in my life, especially one over a theory disagreement, I'm done

Over react much?

[Havo]

Because your scum,

What if I'm not scum? How confident are you that I'm scum? When I flip town, what are you going to say? What if, theoretically, I could claim a role that would confirm me as town? What would you say? (Not saying I do have one). So, what if I am lynched or by some other means are confirmed town, what's gonna be your reaction?

Cause guess what. I'm town.

I'm town.

ANd the fact you are tunneling me and not letting go over a bullshit reason I could understand, and try to convince you, or decide if your scum, but the fact you flat out said you aint unvoting until I flip makes me FORCED to vote you and hope to god your scum. I owe it to my win condition. You can be scum, or be town, but I'm town.

Why are you freaking out? Over 2 votes? Why do you give a shit what I think?

Town Players don't do Anti-town shit.
Town Players don't do Anti-town shit.
Town Players don't do Anti-town shit.

U R SCUM.

[Havo]

Town players do anti-shit all the time. Right, Sergtacos?

Yeah, and here's the problem.

They should be lynched everytime and eventually they'll stop doing Anti-town shit.

[Havo]

Is that an aura of toxicity and hostility I'm sensing in this game? It sorta feels like it's an aura of toxicity and hostility I'm sensing in this game.

Let's stop the toxicity and hostility.

Tell Mulch to quit losing his shit then.

[Havo]

So how would that mix well with a Miller? You claimed that it explains the Miller role and that you think it points to the conclusion that he's town. How could it be?

I'm open to the idea that WM could still be scum, but I highly doubt it.

I suspect if I target him, i get a failed action. Otherwise, my role is just like a regular cop, no?

I check townie, i get confirmed townie.
I check scum, I get action failed.

So why wouldn't the Mod just make that a regular cop?
The miller is the only logical reason. the miller makes my chances of a failed action a false result. No?

[Havo]

"He hardclaimed already and so far no one has counterclaimed."

Sergtacos, sometimes dissent is a form of soft counterclaim. Sometimes. I'm not hinting that it's happening right now.

"Yeah, and here's the problem.

They should be lynched everytime and eventually they'll stop doing Anti-town shit."

Hmmm... no. You should not lynch people you think is anti-town. You should lynch people you think is scum. You pushing for Mulch is an LHF attack with no actual efforts to gamesolve. And I'm not seeing gamesolving too on your part even if there's been 17 pages worth of content here. The hours don't count, it's the content that has been dished. I think it's enough for you to actually gamesolve on your part.

You have one day to play as town. Make use.

I'll start game solving in 3 days,


You don't get to tell me how to play, you are Mulch either one.

[Havo]

Anti-Town is the same as Scum in my Book.

Since you need clarification.

[Havo]

Don't you think that if the Miller is part of your "faction" (alignment. it's weird that the word faction would be used here.), you'll still get regular results regardless? It's a Miller. Now do you see why your claim does not make sense?

"Not all the time but yeah xD lmao our newbie game. jesus christ that game was fucking awful."
Not really. It wasn't awful. You just got played, boi.

"I'll start game solving in 3 days,


You don't get to tell me how to play, you are Mulch either one."
Really? You'll start gamesolving in 3 days when there's sure to be 30 pages more of this thread based on how we're going about it in 48 hours? So isn't sharing information to the town an anti-town action then? I'm not telling you how to play. However, there's a mandate on how to play as town and you're not doing a good job at it. The fact that you're calling for a Mulch lynch for anti-town action is frankly hilarious when you're terribly anti-town (and most probably scum) yourself.

Learn how to use quotes FFS.

[Havo]

Mulch, don't tunnel Havo. We've obviously got the scum content from him. I think that it's safer to sort him at D2. Go prod someone else. I'm reading the thread right now and I'm curious to what Blue has to say about everything so far.

You mean 2 post Blue? Yeah, good luck with that.

[Havo]

Don't you think that if the Miller is part of your "faction" (alignment. it's weird that the word faction would be used here.), you'll still get regular results regardless? It's a Miller. Now do you see why your claim does not make sense?

No, I still get a guilty on the Miller. Would show up as Not Town.

It's like I said earlier. The Miller is the fly in the ointment. Otherwise I would have just been a reg Cop.

I got confirmation on that.

[Havo]

Don't you think that if the Miller is part of your "faction" (alignment. it's weird that the word faction would be used here.), you'll still get regular results regardless? It's a Miller. Now do you see why your claim does not make sense?

No, I still get a guilty on the Miller. Would show up as Not Town.

It's like I said earlier. The Miller is the fly in the ointment. Otherwise I would have just been a reg Cop.

I got confirmation on that.

But ... that makes me town because if I was scum you'd get no result ...

Yes as long as U R a town Miller.

[Havo]

No, I still get a guilty on the Miller. Would show up as Not Town.

It's like I said earlier. The Miller is the fly in the ointment. Otherwise I would have just been a reg Cop.

Someone explain this to me

What don't you understand?

[Havo]

Don't you think that if the Miller is part of your "faction" (alignment. it's weird that the word faction would be used here.), you'll still get regular results regardless? It's a Miller. Now do you see why your claim does not make sense?

No, I still get a guilty on the Miller. Would show up as Not Town.

It's like I said earlier. The Miller is the fly in the ointment. Otherwise I would have just been a reg Cop.

I got confirmation on that.

But ... that makes me town because if I was scum you'd get no result ...

Yes as long as U R a town Miller.

But why would there be a town miller then

To put the fly in the ointment. What here doesn't make sense to you?

The Mod obviously wanted to make the town cop not so powerful. So he dropped a miller in the game.
And made the cop a loyal cop. Now there's a 25% chance the cop is wrong.

[Havo]

No, I still get a guilty on the Miller. Would show up as Not Town.

It's like I said earlier. The Miller is the fly in the ointment. Otherwise I would have just been a reg Cop.

Someone explain this to me

What don't you understand?

How does loyal cop make any more sense than normal cop with a miller? And how does a loyal cop not get roleblocked with the miller? And how does you get a not town result with a roleblock?

1) Not sure unless scum has a roleblocker?
2) IDK. was directly told on a town Miller I'd get "Not Town".
3) ISK what a roleblock would result as. I assume "Action Failed"

[Havo]

What does put the fly in the ointment mean

a fly in the ointment
phrase of fly
noun: fly in the ointment
1.
a minor irritation that spoils the success or enjoyment of something.

[Havo]

Loyal cops are roleblocked if they don't target their same allignment...

I've never played with a Loyal Cop or a Miller.

So I honestly don't know the dynamics.

[Havo]

Why would Virt make a loyal cop with a miller? The results don't line up on each other, your saying you would get a guilty result and not rbed? That dosen't make sense

U can ask him when it's over I'm sure.

[Havo]

Why woulden't a miller to a normal cop be a fly in the ointment? What is the arguement that your thing makes SENSE in the setup? You keep saying this and I don't understand it.

And how do you not know this if you are one???

Smh. I don't know anymore what the Mod was up too than you do.

IDK why he didn't make me a regular cop. He obviously had something in mind.

[Havo]

Why woulden't a miller to a normal cop be a fly in the ointment? What is the arguement that your thing makes SENSE in the setup? You keep saying this and I don't understand it.

And how do you not know this if you are one???

What do you mean "My Thing"?

[Havo]

Lol. You want me to know what the Mod was thinking with his setup?

Seriously?

This site really is the Twilight Zone.

I'm used to playing games where the Mod intentionally screwed with players for their own amusement.

[Havo]

VOTE: Unvote Mulch

[Havo]

Look, You don't really need a Loyal Cop in the game anyway, right?

[Havo]

See how stupid this is? Why are you so demanding for Havo's full claim when there's still 2 weeks ahead of us for D1! Like I would expect a hard claim in D3 and/or D4, maybe D2 depending on the situation but wth.

VOTE: Mulch

Maybe I have to explain it in basic, basic steps for all the people in this town to understand.


Havo had a wagon. Havo, to

diffuse

his wagon, stated that he was a "power role." This is often what scum do to lessen their accountability and increase their flexibility in the claim. If you are going to gain the "cred" of a power role to get out of a fucking wagon (besides the fact that scum can be power roles too or even lie about it), you need to own up to your claim. It's heavy bullshit to soft to try and weasle out of a lynch. So yes, I'm going to tunnel him until he gives me a claim, so we can see if any counterclaims, so we can see if he's actually scum.

I'm still not convinced he's scum. He hardclaimed already and so far no one has counterclaimed. So, therefore so far he isn't actually scum.

This is about me, not him.
Do you still scumread me now that I've explained my actions?

I still think you're scum. I mean don't get me wrong I can see your side of perspective but I believe it is wrong. Why would a scum hardclaim COP on D1? Like that is a huge risk to gamble. Don't think Havo would do that, unless he really is scum then that was a stupid play to make.

Why am I scum if you can see my perspective?

I still have that scum ping from you. You want to rush a lynch on Havo, and when he made a cop claim you still want a lynch on him. I mean that's what a mafia would do, but then I don't think a mafia would be that obvious. Anyway, and you demanded a hard claim D1. What kind of town does that? I mean I never heard of a D1 hard claim cop before however you managed to get it out of Havo. Is Havo lying? I don't know but the way he reacted seems NAI than scummy to me.

Exactly! But the monkey and Mulch would have you believe this is routine town play. Not scummy at all.

[Havo]

Blue is an excellent vig/cop
He's either an obnoxious town troll or a scum who hopes to be too trolly to not be lynched

Well the last game I was in BBT was town Vig and he won the Scum MVP trophy by destroying town with his Very Anti town play.

[Havo]

Shall we lynch you instead?

If you're literally voting me because I'm the biggest wagon, why are you proposing a WM lynch when he doesn't have any votes on him atm? *You're* the second biggest wagon.

This is what he does.

[Havo]

VOTE: BBT

[Havo]

I oppose a skitter lynch

Care to elaborate?

[Havo]

Is the Monkey still seriously voting me?

LMAO.

[Havo]

I think blue is more like a deadline/compromise lynch
Until around deadline, I am ignoring his posts.

Yes, everyone ignores BBT because there's always a more scummier target, then of course BBT survives the night because if he is town, no way scum is gonna kill him off.

Then before you know it, it's LYLO and guess who's making the game deciding decision?

I honestly don't know if this site is gonna work for me. There's a good reason for policy lynches, it make take a little time, but they eventually start culling this kinda shit.

[Havo]

After re-reading the game, as of now,

Why Mafia is my heaviest TR, 99.999% The fact he claimed MIller immediately and I'm a Loyal Cop basically confirms him to me.
I also like the majority of posts and his overall tone.

Slight town leans -
Maria, Toranaga and Thor

Null -
Serge Tacos, I don't know how to read this slot tbh, it's like watching a flea circus.
I mean, I'm just like WTH?

BBT- Enigma because he refuses to participate. I know he hasn't read the thread because he didn't respond
to me calling him Scum MVP of our last game. He played basically the same way and cost town the game.
IF town can't reach a consensus on a lynch, BBT would do nicely.

Slightly Scum leaning -
Skitter and Misere, not crazy about their posts and tone

Heavy scum leaning -
Monkey and Mulch, for outing the soft PR claim, Monkey still voting me lol.
Mulch super defensive anytime anyone scum reads him.
Chip - This ones probably my biggest gut feeling. I doubt all 3 are scum considering how hard the three were
pushing my wagon, but I'd be one is for sure

[Havo]

I think blue is more like a deadline/compromise lynch
Until around deadline, I am ignoring his posts.

Yes, everyone ignores BBT because there's always a more scummier target, then of course BBT survives the night because if he is town, no way scum is gonna kill him off.

Then before you know it, it's LYLO and guess who's making the game deciding decision?

I honestly don't know if this site is gonna work for me. There's a good reason for policy lynches, it make take a little time, but they eventually start culling this kinda shit.

?
That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying if we cannot decide on a lynch, or we're getting close to deadline, we should just lynch him.

Ok, I agree 100%. I zero'd in on the ignore part.

[Havo]

VOTE: Chip

[Havo]

I don't know which i dislike more: the Toranaga slot's abysmal grip on how probability works, or the Havo slot's abysmal defence. But it looks like a Havo lynch might actually happen, so:

VOTE: Havo

Sounds like it Might actually happen, pings me, don't like the tone of it at all.

I don't think sarcasm is an adequate defence...sorry...

What's the accusation against me exactly?

That I'm scummy? That I haven't defended my self well enough?

Yeah, those.

Sorry, but someone has to go and there isn't any solid evidence on D1. Not sure there is any value in dragging D1 out to a two week talkfest. We just have to go on people's reactions, and yours have been anything but reassuring.

Seems to be in a big rush to lynch someone. EVen states he's not "Sure" of any value in dragging out the day.
There's always value for town to drag things out. More talk, more time for scum to have to fill.

[Havo]

Shutting down discussion is inherently Anti Town play.

Period.

Discussion is fine but all you keep saying is it's too early to discuss anything because a few players haven't posted much and too early for reads. What if we all took that approach? We'd be twiddling our thumbs until nightfall. How about anandoning your lofty principles and actually giving some reads, instead of just complaining about how unfair it all is?

REally hate this post.

I clearly never said it's too early to discuss, I said it was too early for me to have any serious reads, over and over I said it.
Then there's the talking down to me and the VERY NEXT SENTENCE he accuses me of having lofty principals. When he just talked
down to me.

This reeks to me.

[Havo]

If he's a powerful investigative role - scum's best option is to use PRs that will effect his investigation (e.g. roleblock) because he will likely be protected.
If he is a powerful protective role scum's best option is to kill him.

So why should we help scum sort their best play?
.

This is fine from a Havo is town perspective, but from a Havo is scum perspective the point was to deny him the shelter of a vague false claim.

Moot point now probably.

But, you know, if you're a cop don't draw attention to yourself. If people want a few reads give em a few reads to get them off your back, and then you don't need to claim either soft or hard.

Still trying to create doubt and throwing shade at me, I get the feeling he REALLY wanted my lynch to go thru.

[Havo]

Still trying to create doubt and throwing shade at me, I get the feeling he REALLY wanted my lynch to go thru.

It's actually why I think he's town.
I don't see scum derping in that hard on a PR, they'd be more subtle - like Skitter was.
That he so owed the push, makes me think he was town who is just oddly obsessive about the value of not allowing scum soft claims.
I'll agree that is play I disagree with, but I don't see it as likely scum play.
Thus it is anti-town.
But it is not particularly pro-scum.
Make sense?

I Agree if he'd been the only one pushing hard, since Monkey and Mulch were pushing harder They were in the forefront, I see it as him taking advantage of that less in the spotlight position to try and push it through. Then he could always say, hey, I wansn't pushing nearly as hard as Mulch.

[Havo]

Also, as far as your BBT issue goes - you just described why he is an optimal cop investigate.
Those are the slots you want to auto clear early - derp slots scum won't kill.
And if he's scum, huzzah.

Agree also, but his selfish play now dictates where I should spend an investigation.

IF he'd just play that wouldn't be the case.

[Havo]

I Agree if he'd been the only one pushing hard, since Monkey and Mulch were pushing harder They were in the forefront, I see it as him taking advantage of that less in the spotlight position to try and push it through. Then he could always say, hey, I wansn't pushing nearly as hard as Mulch.

That's an interesting take, and I see where you're coming from, but if you take that as scummy wouldn't Skitter still be the more suspect pusher?

Yes in that particular instance. But my read on Chip is based on more than just that push. The earlier posts, the hard push plus my gut.

That all together out weighs Skitter and the push.

I really didn't like Skitter pushing me to L-1. ESP with BBT lurking about. But if I had been hammered Skitter would have looked really bad and been in the crosshairs. So I'm not sure Skitter would do that as Scum.

[Havo]

Oh look at that a wagon on me

Yep,

[Havo]

I could do a Misere lynch