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[Wossi]

VOTE: skitter30

me too

[Wossi]

Skitter made a wagon

[Wossi]

Sorry, meant this:

I don't see it. Flubber is a better wagon.

Are you serious about this?

That I would rather wagon flubber? Yes. Not sure why we're wagoning HEM tbh.

I guess what I'm getting at is why do you want to wagon Flubber?

(I'm also not finding the HEM wagon particularly interesting or relevant atm).

Maybe because there's not really any town reason to claim scum?

TwoInAMillion, you're confused. The "criticism" (which wasnt really criticism) was for Flubber for softclaiming scum. Hence the vote. You are what you say you are, if you say you're scum you're scum. I dont really understand how that wasnt clear....

[Wossi]

Skitter made a wagon

And ...?

Like, are you going somewhere with this, or are you just making inane observations?

At least 1 scum between Dany/Wicked

What happened to HEM? (And Serg too I suppose)?

I don't see it. Flubber is a better wagon.

Are you serious about this?

why so defensive?

[Wossi]

It's possible I misunderstood, but even so, this is a game of mafia, and to beleive what someone says at face value during the RVS is a little ludicrous.

So why? Why would someone claim scum? Even in RVS, what might someone be thinking when they claim that?

Town should never lie

VOTE: Flubbernugget

Scum claiming scum is scum and should be lynched
Town claiming scum is lying and should be lynched

[Wossi]

Maybe because there's not really any town reason to claim scum?

There isn't really any scum reason to claim scum?

Why are you and Sephiroth taking that post seriously when it was clearly a joke?

Skitter made a wagon

And ...?

Like, are you going somewhere with this, or are you just making inane observations?

why so defensive?

I'm not being defensive. I'm trying to figure out

a) if that post had a point and why you didn't make it at the time

b) if that post didn't have a point and why you bothered to post it at all.

Basically I'm trying to figure out if that was a legitimate observation directed towards some purpose or if you're just saying things in an attempt to look busy.

Um, it's page two? I'm pretty sure nobody looks busy...

Don't be embarrassed that you were the first one to sheep a vote.


Also I don't believe in jokes

[Wossi]

It's possible I misunderstood, but even so, this is a game of mafia, and to beleive what someone says at face value during the RVS is a little ludicrous.

So why? Why would someone claim scum? Even in RVS, what might someone be thinking when they claim that?

Town should never lie

VOTE: Flubbernugget

Scum claiming scum is scum and should be lynched
Town claiming scum is lying and should be lynched

Also if you have such a problem with that post, and such strong feelings about it, why the delayed reaction? Why didn't you push it immediately after he said it, instead of waiting for someone else to push it and hopping onto that push?

shhh wait until he posts again

also I was still excited by the fact that I just happened to random vote for scum

[Wossi]

Flubber affirming Skitter
Flubber + Skitter buddies?
Seems plausible to me

[Wossi]

Miller claims are usually true unless there is a counter. A lot of risk involved in a scum Miller claim.

On the other hand, you probably don't want a claimed Miller in lylo unless it's someone you trust as a good player and it is an optimal situation. Too many ways the Miller claim cam divert attention in the wrong direction.

Do most games have millers? I don't think so.... it seems like it be pretty decent odds actually to fake claim miller and not get counter claimed.

[Wossi]

I dropped the gambit in my second post. I don't understand how you can fail to see my motivation after that.

please explain how claiming scum is a gambit.

to anyone asking why I'm voting flubber and not skitter: there's power in wagons and there's more then one scum.

[Wossi]

Hey guys

I've fallen a bit behind due to some work emergencies, but Friday I should have time to catch up.

Don't lynch me before then

I'm actually backing off my skitter scum read. It wasn't very substancial to begin with, I was mostly just red flagged by her defensiveness to early day one poking/prodding/meaningless accusations. There wasn't much else to go on. I wanted to see if I could gauge some more reactions from her, hence the ambiguity. But I'm liking her more recent postings.

I'm not liking Wicked at the moment, but that's just on feeling right now because I haven't had time to read in depth. I promise an in-depth post on Friday

[Wossi]

IOkay, starting my read through. Thanks for bearing with me while I was slow. It’s so easy to slip behind, so hard to catch up.
Right away we get Flubbernugget’s first post, 9. After a long chain of people claiming town (Wavemode, me, Danyboy, Wicked, & Humaneatingmonkey), Flubber decides to go against the grain. I understand how this could just be an attempt to be funny or be “different”, but I still don’t like it. I def don’t consider this a gambit.

Then Skitter was the first person to put a second vote on somebody, and I pointed it out. I expected my observation would just be passed over, maybe more interesting after town had more information, but Skitter’s reaction caught me off guard. In post 14 she asks “And?” and then, with no response from me, in post 27 she again presses the issue. I just found that to be way too much reaction for a pretty mundane statement. At this point I was already having trouble participating, so I kept making naked posts calling Skitter scum to see if this behavior would continue.

Other than that, the only interesting thing that happened in RVS was TwoInAMillion’s reading comprehension issues, which I believe are NAI

I don’t like Sergtacos miller claim, especially with the L-1 vote he put on me with zero reasoning. If you really are miller, why would you make blatantly scummy actions, the kind of actions people would say are too scummy even for scum to make.

[Wossi]

Because I don't want to see town lynched?

We are a day into the game, there's a lot more left to happen day 1. Why the rush?

Lets be clear here. A wagon is not the same as a lynch. I am not in a rush to lynch. I AM in a rush to start a substantial wagon because it takes us out of the random stage and into the actual game. The longer we're in RVS the longer people can lurk and make excuses like "I have nothing to work with!" to be completely non-committal.

Are you saying you don't want us to wagon anyone? Not sure how its pro-town to just not pressure anyone out of fear of lynching. It takes 7 to lynch, it only takes like 3-4 to constitute a wagon.

I like this post, and I share this logic on wagons.

I don't like TwoInAMillion's answer that he doesn't want to pursue bad wagons. There's so much information that can be revealed even by poorly reasoned wagons

[Wossi]

Also if you have such a problem with that post, and such strong feelings about it, why the delayed reaction? Why didn't you push it immediately after he said it, instead of waiting for someone else to push it and hopping onto that push?

shhh wait until he posts again

also I was still excited by the fact that I just happened to random vote for scum

OK, he posted, and you've since posted, so can you answer this?

And can you explain what you mean by the fact that you apparently were scumreading me in 13?

Because I thought either or both of you might be scum and I didn't want to say "Oh, I'm voting to apply pressure and get reactions!" because that kind of defeats the point.

[Wossi]

Because I don't want to see town lynched?

We are a day into the game, there's a lot more left to happen day 1. Why the rush?

Lets be clear here. A wagon is not the same as a lynch. I am not in a rush to lynch. I AM in a rush to start a substantial wagon because it takes us out of the random stage and into the actual game. The longer we're in RVS the longer people can lurk and make excuses like "I have nothing to work with!" to be completely non-committal.

Are you saying you don't want us to wagon anyone? Not sure how its pro-town to just not pressure anyone out of fear of lynching. It takes 7 to lynch, it only takes like 3-4 to constitute a wagon.

I like this post, and I share this logic on wagons.

I don't like TwoInAMillion's answer that he doesn't want to pursue bad wagons. There's so much information that can be revealed even by poorly reasoned wagons

I don't agree with the quanity over quality philosophy.

They're not mutually exclusive

[Wossi]

It's possible I misunderstood, but even so, this is a game of mafia, and to beleive what someone says at face value during the RVS is a little ludicrous.

So why? Why would someone claim scum? Even in RVS, what might someone be thinking when they claim that?

Town should never lie

VOTE: Flubbernugget

Scum claiming scum is scum and should be lynched
Town claiming scum is lying and should be lynched

This is a drastically overly literal interpretation. Do you not understand that flubber was being very obviously sarcastic? Is there any actual, material problem with town lying in an explicitly sarcastic way, other than it being lying and you not liking people lying?

also I was still excited by the fact that I just happened to random vote for scum

I also somewhat dislike this line.

I'm trying to put my finger on exactly why. It just feels manufactured. I think this is the kind of line that comes more often from scum who are trying to look like they're thinking about the game than from town.

Now that I'm going through and answering questions and defending myself, aka actually being available to play with a full focus, I don't like this post.

How do you defend against this? By saying, no, I'm not actually scum trying to look like I'm thinking about the game? This kind of sneaky baseless stuff is scummy because it makes it look like you're scum hunting (painting you as town) while making accusations against me (painting me as scum) without anything of substance actually happening

[Wossi]

Miller claims are usually true unless there is a counter. A lot of risk involved in a scum Miller claim.

On the other hand, you probably don't want a claimed Miller in lylo unless it's someone you trust as a good player and it is an optimal situation. Too many ways the Miller claim cam divert attention in the wrong direction.

I think I responded to this earlier, and this is definitely a tin foil, but this post reads to me like scum defending a buddy's fake miller claim

[Wossi]

Not me

VOTE: flubbernugget
Seems like a pretty open and shut case to me.

Vote HEM please

Serg, 2inamil, and Flubbernugget deserve attention today.

I love attention

but hey lets sheep. VOTE: Flubbernugget

What changed about HEM that you went from trying to get votes on him to sheeping him?

This is the point when I decided Skitter was town

[Wossi]

Unvote. Vote: Wossi

(L-2)

I found these two comments particularly bothersome:

You are what you say you are, if you say you're scum you're scum. I dont really understand how that wasnt clear....

This comment doesn't sound like someone actually interested in figuring things out.

also I was still excited by the fact that I just happened to random vote for scum

So skitter is scum but you would prefer to vote Flubber, who you acknowledge might be lying-town? Why is that?

Also, are you an alt? You sound slightly familiar.

And this is when wicked started looking really scummy. Taking quotes out of context smacks of ulterior motivation, and nothing quoted here warrants a L-2 vote

Is my vote still on Flubber? That's outdated....

VOTE: Wickedestjr

[Wossi]

I dropped the gambit in my second post. I don't understand how you can fail to see my motivation after that.

please explain how claiming scum is a gambit.

The risk is in getting a town mislynched.

The reward is getting a wealth of discussion to analyze.

The so-called wealth of discussion is just people going back and forth and back and forth about whether or not its okay to claim scum or not. It clutters the thread, and at the end of the day, really doesn't tell us anything about anyone's alignment because it can all be boiled down to differences in play style

[Wossi]

@wave:

What does the following line mean to you?

also I was still excited by the fact that I just happened to random vote for scum

a check to see if you would keep being overly defensive

[Wossi]

Now WickedJr, who said absolutely nothing to or about Wossi in the very early game, then was suddenly Mr. "hey i think this Wossi guy is horrible and I believe these other four people who coincidentally are already voting him are astute mafia players whom I agree with wholeheartedly. Let me draw up some reasons Wossi is a scumlord and slap my vote there too" is the worst among them in my view. (aka Mr. I'm going to do nothing for a long time then vote Wossi 90 minutes after Nexus posts a VC showing him to be at L-3. Was the vote based on Wossi's play? Or opportunism?)

I said 'absolutely nothing to or about Wossi in the very early game' because I simply wasn't around. I disappeared for a whopping 22 hours and everything from Wossi that bothered me happened during that 22 hours. And you say that my vote is opportunistic, but you haven't made any effort to understand/ask about my reasons for voting Wossi. You're just making ridiculous statements about me. Let me know when you want to start listening to what I have to say.


Also: I disagree with the people who are saying that Wossi gave reasons for his skitter scum read. There's a fine line between ambiguous interactions with skitter and explicitly stating reasons for scum reading her. The only comments that actually give insight into what he's thinking and why are the "I was still excited by the fact that I just happened to random vote for scum" and his Flubber/skitter theory.

this was on PAGE TWO! I don't understand how people seriously thought I was making a serious accusation on page two. No one catches scum on page two.

[Wossi]

also, as much as I don't like how sergtacos is playing, it's hard for me to place any kind of alignment on it. now that he's admitted the miller claim was fake so soon after making it i just don't know where to place him....

[Wossi]

To further enunciate why Wossi is likely scum.

The way he describes the claiming scum = you are scum line of thought in 34 and 37 is a bit disingenuous, I think. In particular, he goes from "if you say you're scum you're scum" in 34 to "Town claiming scum is lying and should be lynched" in 37 which is a bit of a different position even if it's related. The position that lying town should be lynched without any further consideration as to the content of the lie is frankly just flatly wrong. It looks like Wossi took that position in response to Two calling out his obvious logical misstep. It doesn't look like a position that he held all along. It looks like he just said that lying town should be lynched so that he could justify keeping his vote on Flubber after Two's comment. There is also a small part of me that just wants to say that such a rigid lynch all liars stance is somewhat less likely to be genuine but I've seen it so /shrug.

41 still makes me twinge a bit and I've explained why. It also feeds further into it feeling like Wossi is just trying to back-justify his vote. As in, it looks like Wossi cares a lot that his vote looks like it has a justification, i.e. he cares a lot about the way his vote is being perceived, which is more likely to come from scum than town. This isn't as big of a point as the one I made about post 41 earlier though.

70 is just so blah. It just very flatly looks like scum trying to look like they're scumhunting.

Finally, this line from 117 feels very, very off:

to anyone asking why I'm voting flubber and not skitter: there's power in wagons and there's more then one scum.

In particular, there was (unless I missed something) exactly one person who asked this, namely Wicked. And Wossi reacts to it as if there are a lot of people asking the question. It looks like an indication that Wossi is feeling pressure, in a way. Yet he does nothing to address his forming wagon. The answer itself just feels appeasing. Like, the actual content of the answer is fine, but the way it's phrased just feels like Wossi just wants the people asking him questions off his back. Idk, I might not be phrasing that super well.

second time you're just vaguely painting me with scum attritubutes in a way that isn't provable and is impossible to defend against. When I said "to anyone asking" it's because I was barely reading at that point and I couldn't remember who said what or even how many. I was in the middle of a work crisis that was taking up my full attention. I was considering replacing out, but I knew that come this weekend I'd be able to re-devote myself to this game and that it should be smooth sailing from this point out. Most inconsistencies or "off" posts people are jumping on are pretty much a result of me just not reading. And I do apologize for that.

point still stands, implosion looks towny most of the time until suddenly he pushes me, and then there's red flags everywhere.

[Wossi]

Sorry for low activity, I've been busy this week and haven't been able to read/post as much as I'd like.

Re: the Flub wagon - I need to take a closer look at the votes there because I don't think Flub is scum, and I want to analyze the votes on him. I plan on doing this later today.

Re: the Wossi wagon - I don't like that Wossi has checked in since the wagon really built on him (190) and still hasn't felt the need to claim. If he's town I think he needs to do that, and RL can't be the issue here because it takes less time to claim than it did to write up that post. I disagree with Skitter's assessment that Chip was looking for a way to join the Wossi wagon; it seems as though pointing out that Wossi's wagon is the fashionable one is not something scum would want to call attention to. They would manufacture reasons to vote, not abstain from voting while also pointing out that the wagon is fashionable.

I'm leaning town on Sephiroth and Serg. Sephiroth because he seems like he's legitimately trying to parse the game, and even though I don't agree with all of his points he is trying. Serg because I don't think scum would attract so much attention to themselves D1. Like you wouldn't want to lurk, but you also don't want to hard-claim miller or naked vote L-1. It's also similar to his play in a game I just finished with him where he actually was trying even less, pinged my scumdar hard, and ended up flipping town.

Really not liking Flub's last post, it's really aggressive on the one hand while also admitting to not really giving a shit about the game on the other. If you're town imma need you to do better than that.

VOTE: Wossi


That's L-1. Claim plz.

?????

stop fishing for a claim

I was at L-2 when I checked back in. Absolutely zero reason to claim

Lalendra just dropped severely in my book

[Wossi]

EBWOP: That is a quote from a thread where I posted what I'm supposed to post here.

Here's another post with the same content.

Oh my god, Flubb is town
wavemode is probably town
sephiroth is probably town
skitter is probably town
2inaMil could be town
iDanyBoy could also be town
haven't made up my mind yet about wossi
Serg is still the annoying fucktwat back in Newbie 1804
implosion could be scum
chip butty could also be scum
Wicked is probably scum

gut reads based on ISO readings i just want to be back on the game

VOTE: Wicked

like it's these little details that get to me and bother me and get me thinking.....


....you didn't mention lalendra. and she's not exactly under the radar after that claim fishing

[Wossi]

TwoInAMillion is in the same category of Sergtacos for me

[Wossi]

I dont think there was a significant shift in rhetoric between 34 and 37, since it all falls under the umbrella of lynch all liars which is not a novel belief

See, I feel like it's exactly that. A shift in rhetoric, as in, a shift in the way he's arguing rather than the actual meaning of the content. I think he shifts from saying "he says he's scum, he must be scum, lynch" to "if he's town, he's lying and should be lynched" because he sees it as the more convenient rhetorical tact to take, and not because he actually has the genuine underlying thought that town who is lying should be lynched. Psychologically it's sort of the natural thing to argue when the original point is challenged - I think town who makes post 34 and then sees post 36 would stop and take a step back and think rather than doubling down and voting. It just reads to me as scum who sees "ooh, free mislynch" and almost is acting entitled to the mislynch like it's just the obvious thing that should happen next.

Idk, I might be reading too much into this but I still have yet to see any reason to call him town and my first resort is usually to hunt by PoE and there's like nothing in any of his posts that makes me want to unvote him. Him being afk until tomorrow isn't scummy per se but people are acting like the Wossi wagon ought to be a thing of the past despite the fact that we haven't even seen him acknowledge it, let alone react to it, let alone analyze it.

I think it's very premature to think ANYONE was going for a free mislynch that early in the game. How many games have you seen or played where a mislynch has been initiated on page two?

[Wossi]

wossi/seph/wave/skitter/serg towny

I would vote lalendra, tiam, wicked, possibly implosion

I feel neglected

don't feel neglected.

If you had an instant one shot bullet right now and had to use it, who would you shoot?

Also, what is the best strategy for reading somebody like TwoInAMillion?

[Wossi]

I have various things to say about Wossi's recent posting, but am at work, so I just want to point out one thing.

point still stands, implosion looks towny most of the time until suddenly he pushes me, and then there's red flags everywhere.

In what way, shape or form is my push against Wossi "sudden?" What exactly was Wossi townreading about me before that push?

My first post was voting Wossi. This was RVS.

My *second* post was directly criticizing Wossi for his posting since RVS. A post which Wossi very explicitly said he didn't like.

This just reads so strongly like Wossi is caught scum who is trying to still be able to call me town or at least not just call me scum so that I won't full-on tunnel him in response. Like he is literally lying about the game state if he's saying I looked townish until I suddenly pushed him. I literally did not do anything before pushing him. I cannot believe that he actually had the state of thought that he's claiming to have had, where he thought I was town at one point based on my posting and then changed his mind when I started pushing him. He's making things up, and he's scum.

You misunderstood me. What I meant is that during my re-read there was stretches where you would start to look towny and I would start to question my read on you, and then boom, i'd come across another post where you were pushing me and my read would drop again to scum very quickly. Hence the word "suddenly"

I never said your pushing on me came out of nowhere. But I can see how my phrasing was unclear so I reluctantly won't call you out for manipulation/misrepping and I won't mention how you look like scum who threw all your chips on a mislynch and now need to reach to justify why you're still on my wagon

[Wossi]

wossi/seph/wave/skitter/serg towny

I would vote lalendra, tiam, wicked, possibly implosion

I feel neglected

don't feel neglected.

If you had an instant one shot bullet right now and had to use it, who would you shoot?

Also, what is the best strategy for reading somebody like TwoInAMillion?

I'd shoot the guy my vote is on (wave), obv. Kind of a non-question. Also for neglecting me.

First time playing with TIAM. Strikes me as a lynchbait type. Best way to read is through that filter.

I don't think it's a non-question

If you want to lynch someone, you've got to get six other people to agree with you.
If you could just insta-kill someone, you don't
Sometimes wagons just refuse to grow on scummy players...

[Wossi]

I never said your pushing on me came out of nowhere. But I can see how my phrasing was unclear so I reluctantly won't call you out for manipulation/misrepping and I won't mention how you look like scum who threw all your chips on a mislynch and now need to reach to justify why you're still on my wagon

Do you think he is misrepping you or not? If so just say so. If not why mention it? And why the "not mentioning by mentioning"?

This is the scummiest thing you've posted imo. I can see why your wagon is still fashionable.

Wow I really gotta do cut and dry huh...
He might be misrepping me
He might have misread
There's no way to prove it either way
And I was being sarcastic

[Wossi]

skitter30

- I town read her for her interactions with Wossi and I agree very much with her thought process in Post 149 and in most of her posts.

Sephiroth

- I liked his early push on Flubber and his reasoning for it. I like his progression on Sergtacos in Post 105 to Post 202 and his reaction to Sergtacos L-1 vote on tacos makes a lot of sense. I also think his switching between voting for Sergtacos and Lelendra is more likely to come from town then scum.

Wicked

- I like his Post 151 because I agree with his critisicm of of Wavemodes read on Wossi and wouldn't of realised this otherwise. His Post 218 is good because I posted the same thing 1 minute before and that makes me think it was genuine.

Chip Butty

- I'm struggling to get a read on him since I like his Post 306 coupled with his reasoning in Post 343 but I didn't like his pressure vote on Flubber because of the lack of follow up and his Post 181 which I have already explained.

implosion

- I like his push agains Wossi but I he hasn't posted much about other scum leads which stops me from putting him higher up.

FlubberNugget

- Town Lean, Like his Post 290

wavemode

- Null

Lalendra/Sergtacos

- Scum lean

TwoInAMillion

- He is misreading quite a lot and is drawing a lot of conclusion that I find questionable. Post 64 is trying to shut down conversation by saying that pushing someone early game is the same as trying to lynch. I don't find his response Post 65 any better. His votes are also delayed as to when it happens such as his vote on Sephiroth who had moved his vote already. His reasoning for this vote is terrible, it's a clear misrep from his reasoning. He also used this to get a townread on flubber but he voted flubber after Sephiroth did so it doesn't make much sense either. His Post 233 is suspect since he has been ignoring all the conversations involving Wossi and even said that Skitter's vote on Wossi was weak but now his ready to lynch him? He also FOS on Monkey and I don't think his used FOS before in any of his town games.

humaneatingmonkey

- His Post 81 is scummy. He singles out Sergtacos, TwoInAMillion and Flubbernugget to put the attention on, but the reasoning doesn't match putting them as the focus for the day. Sergtacos claimed miller, a miller claim by itself is not a reason to suspect someone or is it enough to clear someone but it also doesn't require us to put our focus on it. His reasoning on TwoInAMillion is that two TwoInAMillion misunderstood his post so he is scum? and Flubbernugget is scum because he said he is? My problem is how much confidence he puts into his reasoning "Those who joke about being scum are highly scummy for me" when I agree a lot more with Sephiroth that it's a good starting point for the day but not the end result. His questiong in Post 87 looks like fake scumhunting since it has no point and he doesn't go anywhere with it. His readlist in Post 242 is a unhelpfull since he has given no reasoning and just used his gut. His Post 246 is just as unhelpfull since I would expect him to be able to explain atleast one of his reads.His scumread on Wicked is questionable since thing that he found scummy is that he responded to a joke without being inquisitive. That's the scummiest thing he found it the game? He also completely ignore his own readlist he made and voted for someone he thought was town. Don't like his flip flopping on TIAM and that most of his posts are lacking content

Wossi

- The reason I scum read are for his interactions skitter and not his vote on Flubber. His defense is pretty much it was a reaction test since Skitter was defensive. I don't like this since I don't think Skitter was being defensive and his inital point was good. His Post 319 is funny because he doesn't think 'It feels manufactured' is a good arguement but if we are to believe you were reactiong testing then it is manufactured. In Post 323 he says he thought Skitter was town because of Post 107 but I don't see how that post could lead him to beleive Skitter is town and he calls Skitter scum in Post 117 after post 107 where he supposedly town read her. His Post 324 on Wicked is questionable because I don't think he took it out of context and there isn't anything wierd about an L-2 vote. His Post 343 is scummy as Chip pointed out.

How is it possible to be null with zero thoughts on wavemode at this point in the game?

Also, in post 319, it's not implosion calling the post manufactured that bothered me. it's the "hmmm, I can't put my finger on it, it just feels like scum trying to look town" that bothers me because that's baseless accusation that can't be defended against.

Post 117 is when I started town reading Skitter on my reread. Post 107 was made obviously before I was caught up/reading the game attentively.

As for 324, I'm obviously not saying L-2 votes are scummy. It's just a lack of significant reasoning to justify putting someone close to lynch. And his quote from my post 34 was for sure taken out of context. I was responding to TwoInAMillion's confusion over Wavemode's claiming town vs. Flubber's claiming scum. None of that is clear from the quote Wicked chose to crop out of the full post.

343 isn't scummy. The fact that you can't think of any criticism for it other then just pointing to Chip Butty enforces that.

Anything else?

You could put together a much stronger case then on Lalendra or Sergtacos, (or even Wicked even though you like defending him) but instead you want to go along with the wagon with the most momentum. hmmm.

[Wossi]

Wossi, your turn to answer your own question. And any reason to ask me in particular, or are you looking for answers from everyone?

I think I would shoot Implosion.

And I asked you because you were the only person around and I was hungry to interact with someone after a page of posting by myself.

[Wossi]

I'm just going to point you to 149 cuz I did this like four times already.

And can you talk about this meta? Or is this the same ongoing game that wave is referencing that he can't talk about.

I can't talk about the meta, and it's not from waves game.

What are you talking about? The ongoing game that I played with wave is the only game I've played.

VOTE: Mulch

It's very susp to me how you just came out of the gate declaring you were gonna town lock me. I've played pretty badly early in the day, i've contradicted myself and made errors of judgement. But then again, it seems like you didn't even read before declaring me town?

Only scum knows for sure I'm town. And it's pretty clear I'm a top candidate for a mislynch, I've been at L-1 twice already. It makes sense for scum to come in defending me hard, and then when I flip green they get to reap town points and say "See? I've been saying Wossi is town since I replaced in, I'm confirmed."


P-Edit: L-2, then

[Wossi]

unvote

I think both Wossi and Mulch are scummy, but I definately don't want day to end early and Wossi's vote on Mulch makes me unsure on which is scummier.

Umm, he has imaginary meta on me from a game that doesnt exist? That's not a good reason to vote?

[Wossi]

unvote

I think both Wossi and Mulch are scummy, but I definately don't want day to end early and Wossi's vote on Mulch makes me unsure on which is scummier.

Umm, he has imaginary meta on me from a game that doesnt exist? That's not a good reason to vote?

why would scum much do that? he would be too careful to NOT do that. i can see it from a town perspective from mulch by doing that.

I see zero reason for town to falsify meta. Who is town trying to deceive? You're saying scum is incapable of making mistakes...

[Wossi]

I'm 15-1 in normal scum games

So explain where your meta on me comes from

[Wossi]

This is the point when I decided Skitter was town

Why is that?

And this is when wicked started looking really scummy. Taking quotes out of context smacks of ulterior motivation, and nothing quoted here warrants a L-2 vote

As for 324, I'm obviously not saying L-2 votes are scummy. It's just a lack of significant reasoning to justify putting someone close to lynch. And his quote from my post 34 was for sure taken out of context. I was responding to TwoInAMillion's confusion over Wavemode's claiming town vs. Flubber's claiming scum. None of that is clear from the quote Wicked chose to crop out of the full post.

Okay thank you for explaining that. I understand now that I may have taken that comment out of context. The way you worded it "You are what you say you are, if you say you're scum you're scum" makes it sound as if that's your own belief rather than you describing HEM's reason for voting Flubber. But I retract that point now.

As for putting you at L-2, I don't believe that there's any danger in L-2. The only danger is that someone might accidentally hammer, but it takes two votes to quick hammer someone from L-2. Plus I am generally active enough that I can un-vote when someone makes a terrible L-1 vote.

Because I thought either or both of you might be scum and I didn't want to say "Oh, I'm voting to apply pressure and get reactions!" because that kind of defeats the point.

I don't understand how people seriously thought I was making a serious accusation on page two. No one catches scum on page two.

This seems like a contradiction. If you were voting to apply pressure/get reactions and didn't want people to know that you were doing that, then why are you now expecting us to realize that you weren't making serious accusations? There was no reason to think that 40 and 70 weren't serious posts. In general, I'm having trouble believing that your Flubber/skitter attack was just a reaction test considering the way that you discredited Flubber's scum claim.

Unvote. Vote: Wossi

(L-3)

I think I would shoot Implosion.

Why would you shoot implosion instead of me?

Post 107 was the point where Skitter had done enough proactive and intelligent scum hunting that whatever initial first impressions I had about her had been reversed. Post 107 specifically was a concise point that I didn't notice in my reading, possibly others didn't notice in their reading, and I liked the fact that she pointed it out enough to quote it during my catch up. It obviously isn't her only town looking post.

I don't understand your all-or-nothing approach to scum reads. Of course I thought they were scummy, otherwise I wouldn't have been applying pressure or making reaction tests. Does that mean I was ready to lynch either on of them? Of course not. When I said serious accusation, I meant serious. Ready-to-lynch serious. 24 pages later, enough has happened that the fact that Flubber joked about being scum and I perceived Skitter as being over-defensive have become much less relevent. Neither of them are my top scum reads at the moment, that would be Mulch, Implosion, and Lalendra. So the fact that I'm scum reading Implosion more than you should answer your last question.

[Wossi]

Its almost like Serg is trying to be more erratic after multiple people said town!serg is more erratic, especially this L-1 on-and-off-again little stunt

[Wossi]

It's possible I misunderstood, but even so, this is a game of mafia, and to beleive what someone says at face value during the RVS is a little ludicrous.

So why? Why would someone claim scum? Even in RVS, what might someone be thinking when they claim that?

Town should never lie

VOTE: Flubbernugget

Scum claiming scum is scum and should be lynched
Town claiming scum is lying and should be lynched

Reading through the wossi ISO. LAL isn't a terrible policy, as someone has pointed out. If wossi has shown that policy in other games it would make him look better. Wossi, can you point to other games as town where you've been LAL?

Nyet, because I have one other game and its ongoing.
Which is why its so weird that Mulch says his meta from me comes from somewhere other then that specific. If he says explaining further is against site rules, I'm not going to push it too much further. That said, it is odd that he could specify his meta didnt come from wavemodes game, but now can no longer discuss. It's a very convenient way to end discussion and avoid repercussions from an untrue statement.

[Wossi]

but he literally could never explain *why* he was town based on meta or anything in game

This is the second time in the same game you are taking someone who's explained plenty, but you simply disagree with the explanations, and then turn around and say they have no explanation

You either need a more open mind or better precision of language. Probably both

I'm pretty sure this quote is about someone from a different game that played with Skitter in the past? Why did you snip it out of context?

[Wossi]

Even in context, she's saying I'm doing the same thing when I'm clearly and demonstrably not

Yes, that's clear from the original post, which is why I don't understand why you put in the effort to clip it in a way that makes her statement look stronger and more incriminating. It's needlessly manipulative

[Wossi]

Mulch town

Lalendra scum

Serg town

I think you're right on 2/3.

I agree, two out of three. Lalendra is scum and Serg is town. Mulch, however, is scum

[Wossi]

Lalendra, you don't get to awkwardly role fish and then expect anyone to consider you town, let alone locktown. Also your 668 is just gushing WIFOM. The "scum would be stupid to make a move like this!" line of though doesnt work when you're the one using it on yourself.

[Wossi]

Neither of them are my top scum reads at the moment, that would be Mulch, Implosion, and Lalendra. So the fact that I'm scum reading Implosion more than you should answer your last question.

Okay but at the time that you said "I would shoot implosion", you were actually voting for me. What changed to make implosion your top suspect and why haven't you ever voted for him?

First off, Implosion isn't my top read any more, Mulch is.

Secondly, I was alone voting you, and no one was voting Implosion. I didn't see a point of moving my vote. I was still being scum-read by the majority of the town, and I highly doubted a wagon was going to form behind me on either of you. Then Mulch came in with his fake, feigned town read on me and whether my vote was on you or Implosion was no longer relevent.

[Wossi]

In what world does you thinking that the three of us are scum not equate to the three of us being scum together?? If there are three scum in a game, and you have three scumreads, how does that NOT necessitate that those three individuals are scum together??

In the world where there is a difference between saying "These are my three scum reads" and saying "These three people are 100% locked to be scum"? I don't really know how else to answer this. I think Mulch and you are the scummiest players in the game, and I lean slightly scum on Serg. You are my number one, number two and number three scum reads, respectively. I have varying levels of confidence in each of those reads. I could easily be wrong about 1, or 2, or all of you (all is very unlikely). I'm pretty confident that Mulch is scum, which is why I'm voting for him. I'm not going to completely disregard all the suspect stuff you've done based on interactions with someone of unknown alignment. The only world in which having 3 scum reads is the the same as thinking 3 people are scum together is the world in which we have 100% complete confidence in every single one of our reads all the time. Maybe I could see that argument if we were very close to LYLO but its day 1, and we have no alignment info at all. What you're saying simply makes no sense to me.

Like I'm trying really hard to not just throw up my hands here because this is like basic of the basics of how the game of mafia works, and how scum hunting works.

It doesn't make any sense to me because if you say "I think these three players are scum," you can't also turn around and say "I never said that you were scum TOGETHER." It seemed really really off to me that you would say that all three of us are scum, and then act flabbergasted by the idea that we are scum together. One sort of necessitates the other. NOW you are admitting that maybe not all three of us are scum, but that is a very different tone than the one I read in your original posts, and smacks to me of backtracking.

I dont think multiple factions is impossible in minis....

[Wossi]

I thought a normal would only have two factions?

Seph vs. Lalendra also happened because Lalendra doesn't realize (or wants us to THINK she doesn't realize) that there could be more then one faction of scum in normal.

[Wossi]

I thought a normal would only have two factions?

Seph vs. Lalendra also happened because Lalendra doesn't realize (or wants us to THINK she doesn't realize) that there could be more then one faction of scum in normal.

Do you have any positive reason for raising the possibility of multibsll?

What? Am I wrong, is it not a possibility?

All I'm saying (and I believe Seph is saying too) is that Lalendra's assertion that three potential scum must automatically be a team together and therefore must be hunted as a unit is odd and flawed for multiple reasons and seems like a poor attempt to misrep Seph

[Wossi]

If the three of us are scum then I am doing the absolute most obvious buddying and shit-tastic scum play ever.

Why does me scumreading the three of you necessitate that all three of you are scum together? I'm not going to delude myself into thinking everyone I have a scum read on D1 = the scum team. That would be silly. It just means I independently find each of you to be the scummiest in the game. I stated as much in my previous post to you:

I don't have strong feelings on associations between players atm as I usually start to look at that more closely at the start of D2.

In what world does you thinking that the three of us are scum not equate to the three of us being scum together?? If there are three scum in a game, and you have three scumreads, how does that NOT necessitate that those three individuals are scum together??

Chip, I'm not sure if you're reading the game or not, but I brought up multiball in response to Lalendra making arguments like the one quoted. This argument only works if there was ZERO chance of multiple factions. When I see a fundamentally flawed argument, I'll say so and provide the reason. What do you think I'm being defensive against?

[Wossi]

Are you proud of me for not self hammering NExus

Maybe you should claim or at least defend yourself?

[Wossi]

It's a dispute about whether Sephiroth is doing three independent scumreads, or pteflip associations. Bringing up multiball displays misunderstanding of that interaction, in that you're buying into Lalendra's confusion(?)

Lalendra argued something that's functionally incorrect, I provided a reason why. My point is correct. Lalendra's was incorrect. I can't say it any more simplistically.

Why are you insisting on drawing a connection between my argument and Seph's? And if I'm being defensive, who exactly am I defending and what am I defending against?