Mini Normal 1982: anagrams (endgame) (egad, men!)

[profii]

I was hoping to RVS onto someone who I could anagram scum or mafia out of their username but I don't think I can

so I'll go for an ironic one VOTE: UnaBomaH - this username should not be participating in internet games

[profii]

Also: my username is a reference to Phil Laak, not the terrorist.

..although Phil Laak got his nickname because he looked like the terrorist..

I'll take that!

[profii]

I’m 0 for 14 at drawing scum. It’s damn ridiculous.

*** DISCLAIMER ***

Just an FYI for you peoples.

I HATE day 1’s. If ANYONE gets to L-1 in the first few days, I will absolutely hammer them without giving them a chance to claim. Faster than you can believe. Unless I hard TR them. Which on Day 1 is very rare. In order to get to night one and get the game rolling.
Don’t expect extensive read lists from me on Day 1 either. If someone scum pings me I’ll definitely go after them but other than that I see Day 1’s as a crapshoot.

If you guys don’t like this play style then feel free to lynch me and I’ll move on to the next signups.

you're probably not the worst gamble in that case if we are doing it that way.

[profii]

Profii: how do you perceive day 1s?

I’m still pretty new to the site and I am used to playing mafia in the style of that disclaimer post where we just vote and someone dies, you get a bit of info and occasionally a lucky scum lynch but mainly it’s just a write off

However I know you regular guys are keen to scum hunt on day one despite the lack of information so I’m keen to practice that skill but I will be rubbish at it - it seems to be worth doing but I think we are still just about in RVS land so far, hopefully not for long

[profii]

However I know you regular guys are keen to scum hunt on day one despite the lack of information so I’m keen to practice that skill but I will be rubbish at it

Nah don’t learn bad behaviors. You do you.

Day 1 is rubbish.

I think id say day 1 scum hunting is a tool and has its place at the right job but that’s not every game

[profii]

*** DISCLAIMER ***

Just an FYI for you peoples.

I HATE day 1’s. If ANYONE gets to L-1 in the first few days, I will absolutely hammer them without giving them a chance to claim. Faster than you can believe. Unless I hard TR them. Which on Day 1 is very rare. In order to get to night one and get the game rolling.
Don’t expect extensive read lists from me on Day 1 either. If someone scum pings me I’ll definitely go after them but other than that I see Day 1’s as a crapshoot.

If you guys don’t like this play style then feel free to lynch me and I’ll move on to the next signups.

i townread this, i guess i kinda agree with it but not to the extent of this. like, i like getting things moving but not hammer without reason. if that makes sense.
there are things you can watch out for though that could be really beneficial, and i heard someone say day 1s are the easiest day to catch scum, im not sure if i totally agree but yeah

logically, scum know their team so they know who to avoid. Town know literally nothing at the start of the game so I’d say the complete opposite of that is true and be wary of whoever said it

[profii]

I mean, I kinda agree with this

VOTE: randomidget for when they get here. Also i find it highly probable scum is in the haven't posteds

hmm this kinda feels like a stretch cause its only like page 4
VOTE: fykus for now

and I also hate his "hey guys we are still in RVS" but I feel like we are kinda out. Like there is a semi-serious wagon on Serg. I do get the whole "he's scummy regardless of alignment!" thing but I'm not really sold that Fykus over scummy ppl like Serg/Mor/Lycan and TC depending on how I feel.

I think as soon as a few people start asking any questions the game naturally moves out of RVS so the last votes where people revert back and go because rAnDoM could be the ones to note. Also I suppose you could say the first people to ask questions and move it along are helping

This is all very reachy stuff

[profii]

full disclosure here but I'm pretty tunneled visioned by this point but I cannot help but look at this and see scum theatre

Can I be a claimed golden frieza?

then we might have to lynch you if you claim golden frieza, actually as a claimed goku, i would let you stay but its up to everyone else though

But everyone listens to Goku and goku would insist they give Frieza a chance. #caughtup

very true, alright lets not lynch golden frieza here

(if ur actually scum omfg xD)

Do you understand the anime(?) references and are saying they’re scummy or are we looking at 2 posters talking gibberrish and calling it scummy here?

I’m a bit lost with what they are saying so kinda ignored it first time round

[profii]

Who is light oragami or whatever

Well, perhaps if I...

VOTE: Morality

He might fold under pressure!


But really, I don’t like 44

[profii]

I literally made like two actual posts prior to this page, so anyone pushing that as scum is scummy as hell and really stretching. I don’t like early games.

@Unah - you made a comment that i don’t think any of them will understand due to everyone e else but you is unaware, I believe. I don’t care if it’s aware, but yeah. Nobody is, I believe.

everyone will naturally stretch on day 1, it's not scummy

[profii]

I think he meant 2 non-joke posts but if we are looking for hyperbole I'd say calling the progress of this thread chainsawing Chumba would fit.

[profii]

i meant the fact morality is calling the buddying process chainsawing, that would be an example of him being hyperbolic, rather than agreeing with morality about it haha

[profii]

Quickly checking in I’ll pick up on some specific observations later when I have more time.

My first impression of day 2 is that everyone seems to have focussed on the boon-drama, this is a fairly natural thing to do I think but he was VT so although he appears to be a well regarded player on this site, I’m wary about considering he’s reads super locked on and wonder if the scum have used the natural drama focus to cast shade early

It concerns me that no one has mentioned Nero so far.

I agree some slots need to engage, so just to that effect for now
VOTE: eth0s

[profii]

Quickly checking in I’ll pick up on some specific observations later when I have more time.

My first impression of day 2 is that everyone seems to have focussed on the boon-drama, this is a fairly natural thing to do I think but he was VT so although he appears to be a well regarded player on this site, I’m wary about considering he’s reads super locked on and wonder if the scum have used the natural drama focus to cast shade early

It concerns me that no one has mentioned Nero so far.

I agree some slots need to engage, so just to that effect for now
VOTE: eth0s

boon spewed nero town so i'm not surprised he died tbh

i mean i don't know why scum didn't kill me but im not complaining
speaking of which ^
i have reasons to think lycan isn't scum so he is one of my top townreads.

well no you miss my point. Scum already know who is on their team so they don’t care what Boon said

They could have killed one of the slots like Eth0s or midget who had 5 posts between them on day 1 and we would have woke and been like omg guys we know nothing now

They _choose_ Nero, Obviously it was day 1 so despite his PR, he knew nothing yet so his reads were as random as anyone, however I wonder if the scum looked at his posts and went

“If we kill Nero, town will think he was on to us as he had a bit of a boner for Tacos, they’ll probably lynch Tacos next”

Go read Nero’s ISO

[profii]

I'm concerned that Havo is getting a bit of a pass. Yeah he did what he said he would, but at best that makes the action move from scum read to null, not scum to town read...

[profii]

activity:

- You are expected to post at least once every 48 hours. If you haven't posted for 48 hours, I shall prod you. If you do not respond to the prod within 48 hours (either in thread if it's Day, or via PM during the Night) then I will replace you.
- As well, if you require more than three prods, I will force-replace you.

I just looked and apparently randommidget hasn't posted. No idea if you want to try a prod or just go seek a replace but just to highlight.

[profii]

If we kill Nero, town will think he was on to us as he had a bit of a boner for Tacos, they’ll probably lynch Tacos next”

Or maybe taco is actually scum and they killed Nero hoping nobody looks into it.

Taco hasn’t done anything that resembles town play yet.

I don't think "Let's hope town don't look into how the game went" is a likely or viable strategy for scum.

Interesting that you get a scum read from that.

[profii]

So I've noted. I believe the logic I highlighted is flawed, but you appear to disagree and I am unsure why

[profii]

Well this is WIFOM I think.

Nero was highlighting Taco as scum somewhat (to paraphrase). I think if I was scum, it would be brazen to lynch the guy I was scum-reading the previous day as the link is so obvious - I would anticipate the town spotting it and applying pressure, hence I am leaning the other way to you.

Whereas I believe you are saying, nero = threat to scum!taco, therefore must die.

The second part of my argument is that because mafia chose Nero, it creates a scenario where Taco appears scummy, but that does not prove he is scum. Therefore the real scum can manipulate us into a mislynch, personally I think that is easier for them, than trying to talk out of the obvious nero/taco link from day 1. This is also coupled with a number of stating that Taco's normal play appears scummy without their help.

What no one knows yet is which one of us has been duped. Obviously Taco is likely to be either scum or town so only one of us is right here which is the fun bit of this game

I don't think either of us will convince the other one that our theory is more compelling than our own, but that's ok. I think both theories are quite clear and it means that we should hopefully see other players pick one side or the other - this should be useful for the town later. Of course, everyone could just ignore us and move on. It would be really helpful if everyone chips in though of course.

In terms of your last sentence, It was not my intention to steer you anywhere, I am just theorising and presenting an alternative line of thought. You gave me the advice of "you be you" which someone gave me in my last game (now complete so I can reference that!) which I think is advice we are both heeding, despite the inevitable disagreements, it's not personal and we can be glad we only need a majority to lynch


Overall I think it was a cunning play by scum to target Taco but I think I have caught it. I hope I'm right!

[profii]

because...

[profii]

because...

No need to point it out yet.

U can stew for awhile.

Not at all, that is enough of an answer for me

[profii]

Let’s see

randommidget - ?
Fykus - concern at that rush to lynch today, but had promised further analysis
Dunker - seems to be posting in a towny manner
Tchill - you seem to have ceased your concerning efforts to buddy me
Sergtacos - town lean on the basis I think he is getting stitched up today for a mislynch
UnaBombah - town lean
Lycan - town lean
Havo - set themselves up for a free pass today, null read but concerned.
eth0s - need more content, null.
Chumba - potential involvement in stitching up of Taco so scum lean

That’s where I’m at. Feel free to query

[profii]

In my experience scum do not set up lynches with NKs, and prefer to audaciously kill the people that suspect them, especially when they have numbers to influence the town. Rarely do I say things aren't worth talking about pre-flip, but without a flip of Tacos/ someone in this conversation, this topic and speculation gained from it all lead no where.

Don't see why Dunker, Havo and profii like me. Day 1 was shit, and just about everyone was shit. I may have made 1½ good posts, but Tchill's response is about par for the course. I don't like being pushed around by him, but this is reminding me of day 1 which makes me feel like this is a much better decision.

VOTE: Dunker

Race between Dunker/Tacos/Fykus/Havo/Profii to obvtown.

Lycanfire - agree with post 306 in theory however, I think it is naive to assume the scum have no agenda and just blindly kill anyone who is a threat.
If this was the definitive mafia playbook we would have already insta-lynch Tacos.

I think the legitimate reason to put the 2 theories out there is when we do get the flip, we can see who was pushing for the mislynch or pushing to save a scammer depending on which way it goes so it still holds some value. Now we have got into the mechanics of it, people are more likely to sit on the fence so that’s a shame. There were tells to be had imo!

I also agree with post 307 there - although I say town lean, I didn’t think I needed to spell out that it is Day 1 and to make things super clear let’s say I had a scale where -10 was scum insta lynch, 0 was obviously null read and 10 was confirmed role by PR... given these early stages any town read isn’t going beyond 2 out of 10 or something like that.


In response to the havo queries - I caveat this by saying I’ve completed 1 game on this site and there seems to be some fairly accepted etiquette that we do a bit of RVS, then we get to L-1, followed by intent to hammer, closing arguments etc and then we do the deed if we think it’s the way to go etc.

The reason I caveat that with “I’m new here” is because I’m not sure how strict that etiquette is- particularly around day 1. On the one hand I don’t like day 1 as much as anyone and it was certainly one way to transparently move the game along.
On the other hand if you read it with a scum narrative the post says to me, there is a low likelyhood that the scum will reach L-1 so I’m going to declare I’ll insta-hammer and excuse myself later with “well it was day-1!” And scum know they can lay down a safe hammer

I’m sure Lycan will file this under speculation and I would agree - the reason I went for null/concern was I think the scum scenario is plausible but I was waiting to see if you guys accepted his plan was an acceptable way to play Day 1 in which case, less concern, or if everyone was outraged at the quick hammmer then the above scenario becomes more feasible.


Chumba - stitch up - apologies that’s a bit colloquial, it basically means setting up someone else to take the fall, I.e as per my scenario where scum lynched Nero to incriminate Taco. Obviously we don’t need to go through that debate again as i understand your position but if you and Lyc think mafia just kill threats we kill Taco today right?

[profii]

#292

Scum!taco had to go into the night chat and either say or read his mate say “Nero’s on to me, let’s kill him” “surely town will read his ISO and look for clues as to why he died” “no no no”

Scum-team!no-Taco might have said “right who is looking scummy” “a couple of people have said Taco looks scummy” “ok guys find someone who was really gunning for Taco and town will think Taco nk’d him because of the threat” “kill Nero”

Click on Nero’s iso and it’s very clear he had a strong focus on Taco.

For me the scum have to manipulate town so the latter scenario seems way more effective for them than your plan so I’m happy to stand by it

[profii]

I’ll point out that there is also a logic that power roles should aim to play scummy enough that the scum think town will lynch them and ignore them at night

Obviously that has to be balanced with not getting yourself Day lynched but the point of the above is it absolutely contravenes your logic, Chumba

Thoughts?

[profii]

If this was the definitive mafia playbook we would have already insta-lynch Tacos.

I don't see why.

I think the legitimate reason to put the 2 theories out there is when we do get the flip, we can see who was pushing for the mislynch or pushing to save a scammer depending on which way it goes so it still holds some value. Now we have got into the mechanics of it, people are more likely to sit on the fence so that’s a shame. There were tells to be had imo!

"DAE think tacos is town because I think tacos is town due to NKA" uhm, yeah, I suppose you encouraged people to in push tacos in reverse? Forgive me if your conclusion here (the rather expressive "there were tells to be had!") doesn't ring the sincerity bell.

Thoughts?

You care too much about the scum pt, get a better read on this thread instead.

1. You said it not me. Either Taco is lynching his biggest threat and you and Chumba should push that as a lynch. Or he is not, then you can go as far to agree with me or say I’ve found a coincidence that’s a bit unfortunate for Tacos. None of us know the answer... BUT if you believe the scenario that he killed PerceivedThreat!Nero you need to explain why no lynch imo.

2. DAE? Sorry. I dont intend to encourage or push anything - I am merely presenting a sequence of events that logically could happen based on posts ITT. My playstyle is a lot of speculation. It is good when we have 2 scenarios like mine and Chumbas because people tend to pick a side. This can then make it difficult for them to explain if they slip - it works because when they post now they believe they are getting away with whatever they want to push. However, as I mentioned we’ve given that game away so we’ve lost some potential information. (Heaven forbid I used an exclamation mark!!)
If I just posted “not answering you, pick the scenario you feel is most probable” i don’t think it goes down well.


3. As per 2. The scenarios are based on events ITT, to get ahead of scum we have to speculate on their plan. Although we are literally a lynch mob I think it is beneficial to town to anticipate their plans.

[profii]

For me the scum have to manipulate town so the latter scenario seems way more effective for them than your plan so I’m happy to stand by it

I don’t have any plan. All I did was say your plan was what scum are least likely to do based on experience and the opposite is more often the case.

Somebody else (can’t rememeb who) also supported that by saying mafia killing to frame rarely happens.

I was scum reading taco day 1 for him playing scummy. I voted him day two for the same reasons plus he still is playing scummy. My vote has absolutely nothing to do with Nero being killed but you just suggested not once but twice it has and all because I disagreed with using logic and experience

And while we are talking about theories. I’ve literally never seen anyone come into a day 2 (or any day that matter) with multiple theories of what scum would do. You came in with 2 different theories.

Just rubs me the wrong way.

perhaps scenarios is a more apt description than plans.

I think if you read Nero’s ISO he clearly has some issue with Taco. This creates your scenario that scum killed based on threat. If you think that’s why Nero died you need to push Taco hard, you found scum

However

There were more than 1 players who said Taco had a naturally scummy play style even when town, therefore scum know it could be easy to lead us to Taco lynch. Then they can pick any player who took exception to Taco and lead us there. .

I think if everyone was saying your scenario is likely, there would be something in it and I’m over analysing the scum play - this isn’t happening so I’m confident my scenario is feasible and by highlighting it I’ve made it hard for scum to lead us to a potential mislynch target they’ve lined up... if he does flip scum I need to eat humble pie in the dead thread after I get lynched but It was you that told me “you be you” and I believe in giving the scum credit to come up with a play here

[profii]

And while we are talking about theories. I’ve literally never seen anyone come into a day 2 (or any day that matter) with multiple theories of what scum would do. You came in with 2 different theories.

Just rubs me the wrong way.

We literally just played a game together where I did this so I should use your policy of Lynch all Liars right here

Further to that you I used the phrase occams razor in the above mentioned game (1976 post 313) when I was theorising that something was off in that game (which at the end I said, I knew your vig claim was BS)

I’m phone posting so will catch up proper shortly but i need to work out if you’re lying because you are trying to direct a mislynch and if so vote will follow

[profii]

Going to start working my way backwards through the thread:
eth0s,

1.randommidget - presumably. Chumba = a derpy alt.
2. agree, although I am going to spend a bit of time on the boon reads and how people have reacted to them, ultimately he was a VT and it was day 1, they don't hold significant weight with me. I'll be more interested in people reacting/using them, as given their lack of weight, to utilise them in any significant way seems a stretch but that's without having seen the arguments.


4. On the one hand, I don't want to create a dramasphere for day 2 that becomes me vs Derpy. However, he appears to me as the sort of player who get's his way by shouting the loudest and people just end up following it which I take exception to, the game becomes derpy and his gang vs scum, whereas we are all a team and should have equal roles and it should be town vs scum. The game works better if we listen to everyone because they will propose stretched theories and it leads to scum. I'd much prefer if Derpy said 'I can see how your theory works, but I disagree with it and feel it's more likely to be xyz' whereas trying to dismiss it as not possible, becomes sketchy behaviour, however, I know this is his tact through past experience. I don't have to like it though.

[profii]

My first impression of day 2 is that everyone seems to have focussed on the boon-drama, this is a fairly natural thing to do I think but he was VT so although he appears to be a well regarded player on this site, I’m wary about considering he’s reads super locked on and wonder if the scum have used the natural drama focus to cast shade early

Let’s talk about this theory now.

Fykus and dunkers are basically sheeping boon.

Fykus did so incorrectly, was informed he did so, yet still kept his vote.

Wouldn’t these 2 people be people trying to take advantage of the boon drama?

Dunkers as far as I can tell is just straight up sheeping boon. I don’t really see him adding anything new for tchill and tchill and I share a brain about mafia and yet again we seem to agreed with each other and he didn’t even know it was me. So tchill I’m willing to say is lock town.

my read of these events is the same as yours.
I did not like where Fykus cherry picked certain boon posts and you pointed it out.

Dunkers needs to think for himself urgently, otherwise he is just using boon to say 'well he was VT and I'm sheeping therefore I'm making town posts and you shouldn't scum read me'

[profii]

And while we are talking about theories. I’ve literally never seen anyone come into a day 2 (or any day that matter) with multiple theories of what scum would do. You came in with 2 different theories.

Just rubs me the wrong way.

We literally just played a game together where I did this so I should use your policy of Lynch all Liars right here

Further to that you I used the phrase occams razor in the above mentioned game (1976 post 313) when I was theorising that something was off in that game (which at the end I said, I knew your vig claim was BS)

I’m phone posting so will catch up proper shortly but i need to work out if you’re lying because you are trying to direct a mislynch and if so vote will follow

I don’t remember you coming into the day with multiple theories. I’ll have to verify that later.

might not have been at the start of the day,but the whole idea of lynching your PR claim or Mulchs PR claim or no lynching were theories on how do we make more effective use of our PRs and get longevity out of them which is a bonus for town.

I know you play scum hunt or be scum hunted and disagree with that, so let's not let that take over this game, but the point is, I find scum hunting tricky, but I think I am good at helping the town in a non-standard way.

[profii]

just shoot me then

[profii]

Scum hunting is how you win though? That's the point. Scum can't scum hunt and town can. So a lack of scum hunting is a red flag. Forcing yourself to help town in other ways is only gonna hurt town in the long run imo.

The only significant slip for me so far is Fykus cherry picking which posts he quoted. Obviously, that is an undeniable fact.

I could push the Chumba stuff all day long I'm sure, but the day will just get taken over which is negative for everyone. Given Chumba's point that he is the only one pushing Taco today, I'll take satisfaction that I've put enough doubt in the group that it _could_ be a taco frame job and therefore people are reluctant to vote or even get involved (especially as we now know it's derpy)

I could also look at Dunkers sheeping a town flip, but it becomes speculation.

I'm not sure what else there is to pick on so far.

[profii]

ironic but ok

[profii]

So profii why talk about tacos could be framed instead of building and pushing a case on fykus?

Basically I’m hoping for what you posted in 402

He made an error but I don’t see a ‘case’ - I see something that needs explaining, so I’ll push for one if he posts without giving one.

[profii]

Oh, Eth0s posted and it was sound. UNVOTE: eth0s

[profii]

Pretty much. Your post was good and so im not voting you. Gonna get my tablet where I can look through the thread more easily and decide what to do in a bit

[profii]

ok so here are some of my issues

UnA - i dont like this post 281
Sure, una was RVS on morality, but i would agree with Tchill and expect at least 1 scum to be in the morality vote pile, so for the town among us, that knocks out 2 players which narrows it down. Una seemed eager to defend himself against a fairly rational statement then twice for some reason says he likes the boon reads. 281 384



dunkers - to go as far as saying there would be 2 scum in the morality lynch, seems like casting shade on a whole bunch of people at once. I know that includes me but i did not like 272
I also dont like 274 - less logical and more gut feeling, but not knowing why the scum didnt kill you? I skipped past most of your posts up to now (reading ISOs) because they were mostly irrelevant or uninteresting, so given the odds are 1 in all townies except morality it never seemed likely. Plus a "i have reasons" potential softclaim for later/good measure.

Fykus - cherry pick analysis, 245 then in 257 (& 258) promises to re-evaluate his boon sheeping and come back to us. he has some work to do. His low activity is a general concern.

I'm going to put UnaBombah on the board

VOTE: UnaBombah

[profii]

To bring something more to the table: I can now see profi+chill being an attempt to get todays lynchfocus on me.
Profis reasoning for voting me feels forced, and chill is acting very opportunistic.
Yet again, I'd say theres at least one scum there too.
So either Chill has been pocketed by the scummys (profi/Chuumba), or he is the scum in both interactions.
I'd say a Chill-lynch is a very good one today.

I'm also very suspicious about everyone who felt the need to heavily discredit Boons D1 reads.
To solely lean on those might not be healthy for the scumhunt, but to disregard them completely makes the value of an already short D1 even less..I got what people were asking for, and Boon helped his wagon speed down the hill himself, but to me D1's have been very valuable for gamesolving time and time again.

i can admit that a bit... although I stand by what I said, I also said I am sturuggling to pin anything down last sentence of 395 so I am kinda waiting for something to happen.

I think most of the day so far has been me vs Chumba so I’m waiting for it to move on a bit - I know that doesn’t help myself given you just said there is a link, despite my Taco theory, turns out no one jumped on him and otherwise there is nothing scummy about Chumba really- he says he is scum reading Taco but even he said Day 1 reads hold little weight


I am not sure heavily discrediting the boom reads is the appropriate context. I know you posted that you like to return to D1 but it’s still early in day 2 (in terms of events and discussions rather than literal time imo) so for Fykus and Dunk to really go hard on those reads is too much right now for me because it creates a hiding place

I also noted Dunks was on 2 votes and I was on 3 so I thought me voting there would make people think more about me trying to self preserve rather than look at my Scum reads so I thought that was not town-useful - where as drawing out a series of posts from you, has been.

[profii]

I am saying to myself through this game tchill is going to be hard for me to read. The only thing I really note is a low percentage of posts are assertions that someone is scum because of something he has gone back and read, whereas a lot of posts are “what you said there is scummy”

It seems to be more discredit the player rather than provide analysis- the confusion for me is I’m agreeing with who he is discrediting. But that just gives me self-WIFOM... am I being led?

[profii]

There is no point speculating on what ifs

[profii]

Ebwop everyone is going to point my whole theory is what if

In context, you either think he is scum or not. By saying what if, you don’t, so no point answering

[profii]

Lol fine

There was a suggestion on day 1 that Taco has a scummy playstyle,

Firstly, do you agree?
Secondly, can you share what he did to cause your vote and explain why?

Last one- I’ll assume you are not on board with my theory if you are voting but do you acknowledge it as a possible option or do you say 0% chance

[profii]

VOTE: sergtacos
only voting to put some pressure

....you should be above saying this.

What’s the issue?

[profii]

Lol fine

There was a suggestion on day 1 that Taco has a scummy playstyle,

Firstly, do you agree?
Secondly, can you share what he did to cause your vote and explain why?

Last one- I’ll assume you are not on board with my theory if you are voting but do you acknowledge it as a possible option or do you say 0% chance

i agree. he's just sitting back not doing anything which is probably what scum would do but i voted him instead of... lets say havo because havo actually did something day 1 where tacos didnt. your theory is possible. its also possible your getting ahead of yourself and nero died simply because he was pushing tacos.

I acknowledge my theory is essentially a coin toss and I could be wrong, scum can only be pro or anti town (just played a game with a serial killer hence that phrase) but given this game is progressing fairly slowly, It’s a fair bet to me

[profii]

Do you mean your havo question in 308? The answer is in my post 311 but admittedly it was long winded

Succinct version:

I think what he did on D1 was a scum move that can be talked out of by just saying RVS is poop and most people will say yea true. He gave himself a ticket to hammer so if he is scum as soon as a town is L-1 ... bang.

When I said he is getting a pass, I meant I was surprised the group didn’t come down on him hard for doing it. I know he said he would but could have just measured reactions.

The other point I made was this is my 3rd game on my site - because he disregarded etiquette but stated he would - if that’s acceptable to everyone else, I’ll move him down the scum scale but I wasn’t giving him a pass. I was expecting people to grill him a bit more

[profii]

When was that conversation ?

[profii]

I’ve no idea. I guess some people will say my theory. Some people will agree Day 1 is poop. Later a scum will hopefully flip and be defending one of those sides and it could be questionable which I think is where I liked Unas idea of going back to earlier days after we’ve had this discussion... right now, not as useful. But let’s say we got people saying that AND if they thought Taco was town framed or not. Then it really adds up after flips

[profii]

I just went to look at boon, but more the votes than the reads.

Summary of events:
-Vote count= Morality 4/7 ( Una, tchill, me, lyc)
-Morality self votes (5/7)
-tchill goes to Nero Cain 4/7 after making about 8 posts, he doesn’t even acknowledge the self vote until Morality reveals he is boon.
-Chumba votes Morality (5/7) no reason
-Morality OMGUS votes Chumba (4/7)
-tchill back on Morality and finally asks about the self vote (5/7)
-Morality self votes 6/7
-Havo Hammers


For me 3.5 things happened

1. I put the original voters into shit day 1 reads or RVS. They were pre-self vote so I’m less concerned with them. By all means call me scum for justifying me being there... idc
1.5 - Chumba gets in on the Morality action after the self vote. For me, I’m only giving it .5 in the things that happened scale because Chumba saw weird stuff relating to a player he already scum read and voted. I’d say totally natural reaction here.
2.5 - tchill Ignore’s the self vote for a while, didn’t really get into the subject even when boon revealed his alt, gets off the wagon and then gets back on without really giving a reason
3.5 - havo hammers a whole 2 mins later


1. = NAI to all for me
1.5 = town points to Chumba
2.5 = scum points to tchill
3.5 = scum points to havo, but less so than tchill I suppose


VOTE: tchill13

[profii]

Just realised I NAI and scum read tchill which looks silly

Obviously his actions moved him up the scale so w/e

[profii]

Not my call, that’s on you

[profii]

gets off the wagon and then gets back on without really giving a reason

Well that's the reason I can see, you've just said "thats why I did it" so I'm a bit lost. I don't care if that's all you want to say but doesn't seem helpful to town to leave it at that.

[profii]

Full re read coming.

You had actually passed prod threshold when you posted this so just to make sure you do commit to some form of follow up

VOTE: Havo

I think some content from you will let us ascertain some context over what you did on day 1.

As it stands without another contribution from yourself that post is merely a prod dodge and in this game where the pace has slowed down significantly this puts you at risk of being one of the scum players hiding

I look forward to your analysis

[profii]

I just want him to post more

[profii]

I don’t think he can avoid the point regardless

[profii]

It's just a thought I want people to take a side on... Profii is playing super weird imo. The activity of this game dropped like a rock and I'm not sure why... I still wouldn't mind lynching tacos.

Interesting you noted that because I purposely shown some restraint for 2 reasons

-I think Chumba is town, so by continuing to argue with him, i know he won’t give up, so I thought I’ll probably annoy the town and they will lock their sights on either of us which is perfect for Scum. Better to be the bigger man.
-It really irritated me when you jumped in to answer on behalf of Una, I know what a pressure vote is - I purposely asked a very open ended question directed at Una because the way I read the posts 452 & 453 was they almost contradicted each other, so rather than put words in Unas mouth, if I pushed it a bit, maybe he’d clear it up or incriminate himself. So at this point I was online and could have responded to some stuff and choose not to. However you jumped in and Una dodged the whole thing.



I am not sure what to make of tchill, he doesn’t really assert anything, he infrequently provides analysis and generally doesn’t make any decisive statements with conviction, yet has one of the highest post counts. It could almost be that this is a way to appear active without really doing anything - and he hasn’t appeared in Lycan’s post so it’s worked

Could be wrong but I’m not sure what’s wrong there

[profii]

do you think it might be t/t/s or t/s/s who or which would you eliminate

[profii]

I’d like to see tchill try and sell anyone on anyone

[profii]

I’ve put in enough to this game to be able to criticise your contribution. If my playstyle doesn’t follow the MafiaScum manual, I apolgise for not being pet of the hive mind but perhaps try and use that to your advantage

[profii]

Haha more deflection, because you haven’t made any contributions to this game you can’t simply go and point them out so instead you have to cast shade on everything else that’s going on.

My next step is to look at everyone on the Morality vote again - obviously Havo said he was just going to lynch. You have said you are just moving the day on. 2 easy ways of lynching whoever you like tbh

I know I linked to a post I found scummy when I voted and I know Una was still RVS - I’ll be checking the others but if they all found scummy reasons to vote, I’d say you or havo (or maybe even both) are our scum on the Morality wagon

About to go out so that’ll buy you some time to work out what that’s called because I don’t scum hunt

[profii]

The remaining 2 were Lyc and Chumba
Lyc was still pretty early and before any real reasons had surfaced.
Chumba, interestingly jumped on after the Morality self vote and claimed town don’t self vote. Obviously wrong. Boom claimed by self voting he would catch a scum jumping on, maybe. The reads might be questionable but voting for the person who follows a elf vote isn’t a read...

I’m getting ok reads from Chumba so although I’m wary of the above I’m more inclined to lynch Tchill or Havo today as it stands

[profii]

I literally made like two actual posts prior to this page, so anyone pushing that as scum is scummy as hell and really stretching. I don’t like early games.

@Unah - you made a comment that i don’t think any of them will understand due to everyone e else but you is unaware, I believe. I don’t care if it’s aware, but yeah. Nobody is, I believe.

everyone will naturally stretch on day 1, it's not scummy

instead of profii commenting on the lack of tacos votes profii moves to discredit morality here.

This is a terrible post

[profii]

I literally made like two actual posts prior to this page, so anyone pushing that as scum is scummy as hell and really stretching. I don’t like early games.

@Unah - you made a comment that i don’t think any of them will understand due to everyone e else but you is unaware, I believe. I don’t care if it’s aware, but yeah. Nobody is, I believe.

everyone will naturally stretch on day 1, it's not scummy

instead of profii commenting on the lack of tacos votes profii moves to discredit morality here.

This is a terrible post

last thought: this is actually a great post. It shows that before Scum could have "framed" tacos profii showed a passiveness to discuss or vote tacos.

this is why even though you aren't too terribly scummy and have a mindset about the situation i can agree with....

you could still be his partner.

no, the bit you quoted is out of context

You’ve missed about 10 pages and gone to final thought and all you’ve really tried to do is push me, either you are misguided town or scum

[profii]

profii i have no issue with your theory except that it's all you provide. very easy to get ahead of yourself with that line of thinking. You "assume" the scum team is good enough to account for that "blatant" mistake. Giving people too much credit is more dangerous than not giving people enough credit. you become your worst enemy at that point.

I accept that and I could easily be wrong - Ill answer your question about alternatives when you’ve apparently finished working your way through the thread

I looked at Tacos ISO just now and he’s a little bit scummy, I guess I probably looked at a defence for him on the basis of the people pushing for him are quite assured which seems disproportionate to the amount of scum tingles I get from him

Combined with a couple of people saying his scummy posts are his meta, I think I’ve made the right call.

Also to make a point - if we lynch Taco now and he flips scum- I would guess a lot of people will lynch me the day after which is fair because I defended him. To prove a point though, I think I’ve made a couple of assertions later in the thread. Let’s pretend I got a scum player bang to rights - I’d be fairly confident they still wouldn’t NK me tonight on the basis that I’m an easy mislynch. Even when I flip Town, if I did have someone bang to rights the scum could talk my read away as “he had Taco so wrong, he’s a bad town”

The point of all that, is I can see enough scenarios to believe the scum put some planning into their kills, so to say they lynched Nero on the basis he was a threat to Taco is highly simplistic bordering on the verge of misleading

[profii]

I want to ask eth0s about his scum read on me

You’ve stuck by it and never really explained where it came from

My guess is that I was massively town-read by everyone in our last game because I was trying to come up with solutions to the game which seemed logical. I’d point out I’m basically doing the same thing here by pointing out the possibility as Town!Taco/Mulch as I was when I came up with the possible Not_Maf/UCV link in the other game

Obviously, although I was town in the last game, I was wrong. Ive said in this game I could be wrong about Mulch but for now I believe my theory so I’ll stand by it

I’m just concerned Eth0s, you are sheeting the scum reads on me based on the fact that’s different from last game, when I’d point out my playstyle is actually quite similar - I am guessing that is why tchill came round to town reading me, mulch linked my ISO & I cant remember not mafs read of me but hopefully he echos this thought

Obviously if you have another reason I’m curious to hear

[profii]

Also tchill is town!

As time goes on, the low posters concern me more and more

[profii]

in fact we can ignore what boon said because he was wrong about me. Since i know that i also know he was probably wrong about the other stuff. I would imagine Scum is gonna take advantage of this and push boons beliefs so they dont have to take credit for it.

see i don't think you're playing in a towny mindset. as town you need to use all the information available to try and find scum which is what im trying to do.

if you're town, show me you're town and work with me ok?

Dunker this is so scummy for you

if Boon is misreading you I'm going to flip a table

And absolve myself of responsbility

cause Boon claimed a 100% read on you

ah great, another one of Boons disciples in the game. Can someone explain to me how Boon gets 100% town reads on day 1 as a confirmed VT please?

It’s a miracle!

[profii]

Ok. Say there is a world in which you are town. do you blame me for scumreading you when you are drastically different than your scum game and you are "trying a new style?"

How am I supposed to know you just aren't scum and not "trying a new style"

1. I am town
2. In some alternative universe, if you were town this game yes I would blame you for scum reading me because you have nothing to scum read me for THIS game that doesn’t involve me and meta. You clearly don’t know me or my meta enough anyway because anyone who knows me knows I try to mirror my town game when I’m scum.
3.

If you were town I’d expect you to ignore meta completely and judge me based on my play. You were town reading me based on my play and did a 180 after learning I was Derpy.

And please stop posting so much or I’ll just have to ignore your posts which I don’t want to do.

Lol, if you read the iso, that is very apparent

This games fun factor just got turned up a notch

[profii]

I'm surprised NotMaf has voted me but he's only made about half a dozen posts so keen to hear more there too

[profii]

Yea UNVOTE: havo

I’m going to re-read Fykus. I think I could be down for that but I did like he didn’t dodge the misquote thing earlier

[profii]

As if Mulch doesn’t know what that references given that he quoted nearly every post in he game and the conclusion of the interaction was Fykus removing a vote from Chumba.

Despite that tunneling knucklehead, it doesn’t make Fykus less scummy

I’m just going to check VC before voting

[profii]

I can’t be bothered to go through 10 pages of Mulch quoting individual posts and responding to them to count the votes on my phone just to work out if I need to declare L-1 or intent to hammer etc

It would be better if you could keep your posts to key points...

Funny that you post the ???? When I reference an interaction that concluded in someone removing their vote from Chumba by the way - especially since I mention you have quoted nearly every post in the game, I’m sure you were actually aware. Oh dear

[profii]

If I get time at work I’ll read Mulch’s verbal diarrhoea

I was about to put down a Fykus lynch then just refreshed and saw the last half dozen posts and wish to re-read

[profii]

If I get time at work I’ll read Mulch’s verbal diarrhoea

I was about to put down a Fykus lynch then just refreshed and saw the last half dozen posts and wish to re-read

Cause your partners

You realise most people probably think I’m partnered with your slot ha

[profii]

I'm a bit confused why Mulch looked at my ISO, decided I was town for a bit then randomly went back to calling me scum.

Apart from that, with Mulch not presenting anything scummy, I can still see my Taco Frame Job at least being possible

VOTE: Fykus

[profii]

My bad, I scrolled passed Dunker but you are absolutely right.

[profii]

Really? Wow!

Usually, a change of mind has a reason!!

[profii]

Really? Wow!

Usually, a change of mind has a reason!!

Aren’t you a smart guy? Why are you accusing me of not having a reason when I questioned you about it last page and you responded? Is your memory that bad that you would go far to shade me about not giving a reason when we literally talked about it last page?

Are you on drugs

[profii]

In my newbie game, someone imploded and confessed to being scum along with another player (who in the end was scum) but implosion dude flipped VT haha

Moral of the story- I am waiting for the flip before I get excited haha

[profii]

Prediction : today’s lynch will end up on one of

Me / Havo / Tchill

[profii]

Lol

VOTE: dunkerdoodles

That was easy

[profii]

I thought it was a player fairly universally town read to confuse us

[profii]

I thought it was a player fairly universally town read to confuse us

And what about that would “confuse” us?

Prediction : today’s lynch will end up on one of

Me / Havo / Tchill

Why would you post this?

I’m pushing my theory that the Mulch/Taco slot was framed by the Nero kill to see if it stands up.

Assumption: it’s on the money.

Conclusion: mafia would have to avoid trying something like that, so by picking a low post count/ mostly town read player it doesn’t give anything away really. It’s just a plain old logical kill for scum to whittle the town down - it’s not too clever to try and send us at a mislynch today because their attempt on Taco/Mulch got rumbled

So following on from that, I considered process of elimination over the 2 lynches and looked at players who voted for both Morality and Fykus

Logically - a scum might be on Morality because it was a town rush and logically someone might have bussed fykus for cred - the result was the 3 players I mentioned so I thought I’d post in an effort to stifle the logical path to a mafia quick wagon as I believe we are all town..

The other way of thinking about it, is there are 3 scum given we’ve not had 2 kills ina night yet, so the same scummer on the 2 lynches might be ambitious - maybe they rotated meaning a scummer is someone who was on Morality but not Fykus (or vice versus)

This would be Lycan or Dunker... (and I voted for.... )


I know that’s ambitious thinking but I believe in my Taco frame theory so I wanted to reconsider it based on D2 flip and I think the above series of events fits

I wondered if Lycan might go today as he was another highly town read player...

[profii]

I’m pushing my theory that the Mulch/Taco slot was framed by the Nero kill to see if it stands up.

it's ambitious but not impossible so face palm all you like... I'll give you a town card as you didn't kill me last night anyway

[profii]

Good to see you are coming round, we've moved from disproven to least likely.

[profii]

I would say no one was going to push a taco wagon when I was strongly suggesting that would be a big scum tell in a well presented and thoroughly thought out scenario, so I think your post about saying you were the only one on taco means my theory is disproven does not hold water.

I agree with your occams razor point though - I did say this is all ambitious, however it lead me to Dunkers and I was happy to push that one.

[profii]

actually, thinking about it, you make a good point. I have to admit Mulchs style annoys the poop out of me so I tend to ignore him throwing votes around like they are going out of fashion but...

I did make a list of everyone's names and work backwards through each ISO and listed what each persons last read was on each other player... In the instance of Mulch, he had made a scum suggestion for every player except UnaBomah (admittedly some of this was down to my interpretation, I was looking at anything that might have even been scum lean on player x etc)

Now it's a stretch to say that Mulch pre-planned to lynch the only player he town read that day, but the mind does do subconscious things.

[profii]

Not_Mafia, your sum contribution is 13 words and 2 votes. Interesting.

[profii]

Tchill did you know you are the most town read player?

[profii]

Tchill did you know you are the most town read player?

Is there a reason for this post?

Because it’s eye catchingly out of place.

It came out of my little analysis of who is reading whom which way. Tchill had the most town reads. Wasn’t expecting it so thought I’d highlight

[profii]

That’s the secret. Mulch knows.

based on every game I have read or personally played with him, as either alignment he is a detriment to his factions win condition so I don't think he does.

My winrate is probably 20% higher than yours

Anyway it’s not my fault you were scummy as a serial killer so you fear killed me

My win rate is currently 100%

My penis is probably bigger than yours too

Ergo, that comment was silly.

[profii]

this is probably tvs

Agree

[profii]

That’s the secret. Mulch knows.

based on every game I have read or personally played with him, as either alignment he is a detriment to his factions win condition so I don't think he does.

This post slightly concerns me. You are casting shade over scum!mulch or town!mulch

It says to me you don’t know his alignment and want his dead anyway

Great, town slip, but tunneling

[profii]

Tchill did you know you are the most town read player?

I’ll just bring this back if we are looking at tchill. To come to this conclusion I literally went over every ISO and made a note of how each player read every other player - I.e readlist or vote etc.

Obviously, I did it in reverse so latest read applied - I probably should keep it up to date but it’s on my work computer as I don’t have excel at home

I did it during the night period so at the point scum were picking their kill TChill was the most town rated player, the subtle message in the quote was “this guy should have died or at least been an option on their hit list last night does anyone think this is odd”

Obviously the scum team probably didn’t pick a target *that* methodically and Unas lack of posts made him a fairly sensible target as he was I think 3rd highest town rated after Lycan off the top of my head


I need to read my ISO - there was something tchill did that made me locktown him and I didn’t point it out but this might be the time I need to bring it to the discussion

[profii]

Ok, I don’t know why I locked town tchill so let’s unlock that
One thing I’ll bring to the tchill discussion is my D1 vote analysis 469 - tchill did make a weird move off and back on the wagon

However - earlier 400 earlier, I’d talked about the misquote slip Chumba brought to our attention and Tchill encourages me to vote for him

I think I could be down for that but I did like he didn’t dodge the misquote thing earlier

You "like" that he "didn't dodge" something???








without even knowing what the fuck you are talking about this already sounds like scum reasoning

moving on a bit as I was looking at the point that Tchill raised where he said Mulch had ignored all the red flags against Fykus. I think it’s my naivety in this game that I didn’t just straight up vote the aforementioned misquote. In hindsight, great spot by Chumba, easy to say post-flip...

Anyway, this was the first Fykus related post by mulch, as tchill says about 100 odd posts into the ISO
Mulch did make the point he had around 27 pages to catch up on so I can forgive him that, however this post alarms me.

At this stage, Mulch has addressed me when I was addressing the Fykus slip. I still stand by my post above that Fykus did make a reasonable unconcerning effort to respond to pressure but Chumba saw through that.

I am concerned if Mulch is as great as he seems to think he is, he claims to not know what’s going on but at this point I think he knows he should be lynching Fykus, it’s easy enough to click on post links or ISOs to find out and drive your point home


So by looking into tchill I actually want to

VOTE: Mulch

[profii]

Ok, I don’t know why I locked town tchill so let’s unlock that
One thing I’ll bring to the tchill discussion is my D1 vote analysis 469 - tchill did make a weird move off and back on the wagon

However - earlier 400 earlier, I’d talked about the misquote slip Chumba brought to our attention and Tchill encourages me to vote for him

I think I could be down for that but I did like he didn’t dodge the misquote thing earlier

You "like" that he "didn't dodge" something???








without even knowing what the fuck you are talking about this already sounds like scum reasoning

moving on a bit as I was looking at the point that Tchill raised where he said Mulch had ignored all the red flags against Fykus. I think it’s my naivety in this game that I didn’t just straight up vote the aforementioned misquote. In hindsight, great spot by Chumba, easy to say post-flip...

Anyway, this was the first Fykus related post by mulch, as tchill says about 100 odd posts into the ISO
Mulch did make the point he had around 27 pages to catch up on so I can forgive him that, however this post alarms me.

At this stage, Mulch has addressed me when I was addressing the Fykus slip. I still stand by my post above that Fykus did make a reasonable unconcerning effort to respond to pressure but Chumba saw through that.

I am concerned if Mulch is as great as he seems to think he is, he claims to not know what’s going on but at this point I think he knows he should be lynching Fykus, it’s easy enough to click on post links or ISOs to find out and drive your point home


So by looking into tchill I actually want to

VOTE: Mulch

[profii]

Sorry somehow double posted.

[profii]

I don't really get the crossvote between Mulch and Tchill. I feel like a few of us have a silent consensus about something this game?

I’m not sure what you mean by cross vote but hopefully my last posts go some way to show you where I’m going

[profii]

I did not expect the quick hammer again.

Also I agree with Chumba re: Mulch being some kind of troll. I was pretty confident in my theory his slot got setup by scum and he talks me into voting him, which in turn makes me look like I’m going against my own thought process so he is super damaging to me at least

Another vote where scum picked off a fairly pro town player. I need to re-read this thread, it’s been a while ha

[profii]

D1 Final vote count

Morality

(7):

UnaBombaH

,

Lycanfire,

profii, Chumba, Tchill13,

Morality

, Havo

Dunkerdoodles (2):

eth0s,

Fykus

Sergtacos

(1):

Nero Cain

Fykus

(1):

Dunkerdoodles

Nero Cain (1):

Sergtacos

not voting (1):

randomidget

with 13 alive, it took 7 to lynch.

Day 2 final vote count

Fykus

(6):

Havo, Tchill13,

Mulch,

Dunkerdoodles, profii,

Fykus

Mulch (

2):

Chumba, eth0s

profii (1):

Not_Mafi

Dunkerdoodles (1):

Lycanfire

not voting (1):

UnaBombaH

with 11 alive, it took 6 to lynch

D3 final vote count

Mulch

(5):

Chumba, Dunkerdoodles, Tchill13, profii, Havo

Chumba (1):

Not_Mafia

Tchill13 (2):

Mulch

, eth0s

not voting (1):

Lycanfire

with 9 alive, it took 5 to lynch.

[profii]

Things that immediately strike me there:

the randommidget/not_maf slot is the only non-voter to survive.
eth0s is never on the lynch
me and tchill are always on the lynch
chumba is on all the town lynches but avoided the scum one
havo speed hammered the non-scum lynches
dunkerdoodles went hard for fykus

[profii]

chumba is on all the town lynches but avoided the scum one

why the blatant misrep here?

Apologies if you debated being on the Fykus one on day 2, I wasn't being careful with my language. I haven't gone back to look

[profii]

chumba is on all the town lynches but avoided the scum one

why the blatant misrep here?

how is that a misrep?

to be fair chumba is absolutely right, he picked up the Fykus misquote clue really early on and missed the wagon. apologies again.

I am fairly happy Chumba is not in my lynch pool today after a quick flick through the ISO

[profii]

i think our lynch pool is (eth0s, havo, nm,

chumba

)

oh ok

yeah but basically we're lynching someone that isn't

us 3

im probably like 90% positive the remaining scum are in the

other 4

did you just sub someone in lol

[profii]

oh btw chumba!! my taco theory i think has moved from unproven, to unlikely and now quite probable :p we just have to work out who sent us there

[profii]

Tchill is more familiar with my meta on this site than havo is. But havo claims to be town reading me off some meta thing.

I honestly have no clue who is scum

pocketing?

[profii]

if you give someone a town read then they might just assume you are on the same wavelength and reciprocate. enemy of my enemy is my friend and all that.

[profii]

whats your read on dunkers chumba

[profii]

@eth0s - you're an alt right?

[profii]

can i just point out taco was town and the lack of credit coming in my direction for genius insight into the scum psyche please

[profii]

btw eth0s i have an answer prepped and ready to go as soon as you tell me if youre an alt or not

[profii]

yeah profii good job on the tacos theory.

aw schucks, i could be wrong to be fair

[profii]

btw eth0s i have an answer prepped and ready to go as soon as you tell me if youre an alt or not

This is my main and only account as of right now.

Just to be clear, because this formulates a key part of my theory to lock town you are you saying you had an alt but dont bother with it any more and stick to eth0s these days? Or are you saying you may alt in the future? or are you saying you are just plain old eth0s and this will be it.

Please dont be vague like that again, it makes baby jesus cry

[profii]

@eth0s

I retract my theory. You said when i replaced in, I thought you are new, so i checked the replace queue for your name and didnt get any results but looking at your history you've replaced in some games. I was going to call you a fibber but never mind. I just wanted you to admit no alts so i could pin you right down, but never mind. (I also said it was a lock town theory so you didnt get worried about what i was up to and answer honestly sorry )


anyway, I did say I was going to answer you query, so despite planning to destroy you for lying, I feel like I at least owe you one

Just to be clear, you had scum read the Taco/Mulch slot (not sure during the taco/mulch era) then at some point based on Mulchs contributions you decided to town read him. Chumba is apparently pushing you because he scum read the slot and wasn't sure what made you change your mind?

The rest of this post is based on that premise, so if I've misunderstood, ignore anything from here on in...


So personally, I noted that Mulch had put a scum read on pretty much every player bar Una at some point in his spam fest. I really dont see his play as scum hunting I see it as spray and pray to see what sticks, he is more interested in leading a lynch and getting the glory if it's scum, than actually focusing on getting scum. So as far as I am concerned I dont find his playstyle a credible scum hunting method and i tend to ignore him. Obviously he flipped town but I can forgive anyone for lynching him because he brought it upon himself. Frustratingly, it is likely a scum player will be on the wagon because it's easy to just quote me and say 'well you said he brought it on himself, of course we lynched him" which is really annoying because we essentially get no info about the players on the lynch majority.

in summary - 688 is right and you are right to agree with it. A succinct way of saying the paragraph above if you will.

i assume when you reference the later tchill posts 1042 etc you went back to town reading mulch on the basis that you didnt want to be in the same boat as tchill. This doesn't actually tell us that you think mulch is town, it says you still think he is scum but you think tchill is scummier. (imo)

You then said tchill wanted a mulch mislynch, so you now do think mulch is town, otherwise it wouldnt be a mislynch.


So personally, I dont think you have answered Chumba's question clearly. He specifically asked what scum hunting you saw Mulch do, but you didnt really highlight anything, other than you dont trust Tchill.

The other part of your question was that you are scum reading him and do i think you should? Well, I think he tunnelled taco wrongly, but I have seen him tunnel so it's in his meta. He says he is on full reset and re-evaluate so I'd say give him the benefit of the doubt and see how he reads everyone from here on it - that's what I'll be doing.

[profii]

tl;dr I think chumba has a legit reason to query your position on Mulch and you dont seem to have an answer, therefore, I'm seeing eye to eye with Chumba right now

[profii]

right eth0s, i need to go right through your ISO now, because this is getting weird.

385 a vote on me with a readlist saying my theories were a bit out there. Fine, the point of the game is people will get it wrong, you are in a reasonable position here.

481 you said you thought the scum were leading us to a mislynch on Taco. This was the theory you voted me for!

506 you seem to have decided Taco's lack of defense for himself incriminates both himself and myself.

783 I queried your vote on me and you came off quite easily. Surprisingly so tbh. You are now on the Taco spot. Again, I have no issue with people choosing chumbas theory over mine, given the info at the time, both legit thoughts.


880 new day after the Fykus lynch, you go straight back to Mulch, so far only reason is 'scummy/annoying' as per 783


885 this post is where you get accused of scum slipping about the reasons for Una's death. The only reason I highlight it is that it was the only player Mulch didn't put a scum read on. Then Mulch got mislynched. Coincidentally!


1014 Lycan gave me a town card, you then consider my theory could be plausible and get yourself off of the mulch slot.

1033 & 1042 your target is now on tchill

1039 you are town reading me and mulch at this point.



You clearly go from scum to town on that slot.

[profii]

Chumba, am I on the right lines there?

[profii]

i'll claim after everyone as i've made it clear im a pr

do you have a plan to verify your claim? I've never been involved in an organised mass claim, so i dont know how this goes

[profii]

Hang on, you don’t bottle a claim if you’re scum, you just go VT but clearly he is worried.

Why don’t we L-1 / intent him ? No need to risk any further claims yet

[profii]

Good point. Too many players to go 3v2 tomorrow. I’m in

[profii]

We are assuming this is LyLo?

I’ll go - I’m VT

[profii]

D1 Final vote count

Morality

(7):

UnaBombaH

,

Lycanfire,

profii,

Chumba

, Tchill13,

Morality

, Havo

Dunkerdoodles (2):

eth0s,

Fykus

Sergtacos

(1):

Nero Cain

Fykus

(1):

Dunkerdoodles

Nero Cain (1):

Sergtacos

not voting (1):

randomidget

with 13 alive, it took 7 to lynch.

Day 2 final vote count

Fykus

(6):

Havo, Tchill13,

Mulch,

Dunkerdoodles, profii,

Fykus

Mulch (

2):

Chumba

, eth0s

profii (1):

Not_Mafia

Dunkerdoodles (1):

Lycanfire

not voting (1):

UnaBombaH

with 11 alive, it took 6 to lynch

D3 final vote count

Mulch

(5):

Chumba

, Dunkerdoodles, Tchill13, profii, Havo

Chumba

(1):

Not_Mafia

Tchill13 (2):

Mulch

, eth0s

not voting (1):

Lycanfire

with 9 alive, it took 5 to lynch.

D4 final vote count

Not_Mafia

(4):

Chumba

, Tchill13, Dunkerdoodles, Havo

Tchill13 (1):

eth0s

Chumba

(1):

Not_Mafia

not voting (1):

profii

with 7 alive, it took 4 to lynch.

I hope I didn't mess that up

[profii]

scum = dunker & Tchill for me.

I want a mass claim though complete with actions before anyone places any votes.

[profii]

scum = dunker & Tchill for me.

I want a mass claim though complete with actions before anyone places any votes.

Why am I not scum?

gut feeling for now. You could be but would a scum take the chance on 3 quick hammers? Don't think so.

[profii]

Thinking about it.

eth0s was very nervous about claiming. Either, he has some good info to share

and now is the time please do it asap

or, given that his reluctance to claim was quite obvious, combined with the fact he wasn't night killed, leads me to believe he should be considered as a nobber.


I did read this paragraph:

Of course there is more to look at than votes, I already know tensions will be high when everyone starts posting heavily. So please understand that this is the probably the best place to look for a pattern right now. In all honesty, I have never played in a game where a scum made it this far and was never voting on the people that got lynched. If this sounds like I am trying to conftown myself, I'm not. I just want people to think about why I would not be on any of these wagons. Was the town bad enough that I could be scum and just coast without voting the main wagons? Those are the kind of questions you need to ask yourselves in order to read me, I think.

I get his point that the scum are probably on the majority lynches. However, I am guessing there might be 2 scum, so only 1 needs to do that. eth0s could be the other quite easily. Point disproved, try again.

[profii]

sorry, nobber = scum - where I used to play we called them that for some reason haha

[profii]

I'm a believer. I really want to hear from eth0s

[profii]

If profii and chumba are town this game.... I just found some new friends.

Due to opinions on day 1.

Hey fykus am I town or scum due to your alignment?

I mean, its entirely possible that Serg is just shitposting like Dunk (and maybe others) said he does and I'm just reading bad play as scum play but come on. Though him not scumreading Mor over roleplaying but also being worried that he's incorrectly reading him seems a little fishy.

VOTE: nero cain

i could lynch this.

not voting profii or chumba day 1. curios to see how their play progresses.

D1 Final vote count

Morality (7):

UnaBombaH, Lycanfire, profii, Chumba, Tchill13, Morality, Havo

Dunkerdoodles (2):

eth0s, Fykus

Sergtacos (1):

Nero Cain

Fykus (1):

Dunkerdoodles

Nero Cain (1):

Sergtacos

not voting (1):

randomidget

with 13 alive, it took 7 to lynch.

lets say 1 scum was for sure on because morality self voted... id bet in order from most to least likely scum....

Lycan, una, profii, chumba, havo, tchill.

Looking forward to when fykus comes in and contributes. Please don't wait for a wagon to be on your before you do that

Also like eth0s breakdown of the game. Didn't see much information he came up with on his own though so I'm still a bit weary but off to a good start.... Now back to waiting.

Ok finally caught up, i apologise for not posting sooner. It seems the general consensus is that using boons reading is a no-no (for now at least, maybe tomorrow or something when we have a bit more info to reminisce on itll come in handy).

UNVOTE: chumba

I think the chumba v profii stuff might be tvt aswell as dunk v teech.

i liked ethos's catchup so town points to him, still unsure of everyone else although its pretty sketchy that midget hasnt posted at all. I've gotta head off for a bit but when i come back i'll do a more substantive post.

Since boon reads are off the table what about nero reads?

umm that part in parenthesis... if youre scum youre gonna push a lynch you know boon had correct to justify a mislynch later... so... whos your scumread fykus?

I think my next task is to look at the morality reads. See if any were right/wrong then see if anyone was promoting or dismissing them accordingly.
But I'm about to leave work so it will be in a couple of hours.

[profii]

ebwop - oops I was working through the tchill iso and didn't realise it would do that haha

[profii]

Yea

Me / tchil / havo = Vt
Dunker = watcher
Eth0s =?

[profii]

^thats dedication to the waiting eh

[profii]

Remember our first game together? My first game on the site. Everyone called me scummy for asking for claims. Then people said that etiquette was to claim on L-1 or after intent to hammer was stated. Why is this game saying the opposite? Why would I claim just because my top scumread and my sketchy nullread are telling me to? I'm not claiming because why would we just give scum this info?? I hate playing with Not_Mafia but at least there is something we can agree on. This mass claim is sketchy and I don't trust anyone that is supporting it.

this is sketchy as fuck

Role fishing is scummy early in the game but yesterday when PRs had 3 bits of potential info was the time to share. It reaches a point where 3x number of PRs bits of info is more useful in trying to kill scum than hanging on for another day where we are sat in LyLo - even if we kill a scum tonight we go through LyLo again tomorrow so yesterday was the time

[profii]

I still think Dunk, Chumba & Tchill are town.

That leaves profii, ethos & Not Mafia.

I could easily see Ethos & NM.

I had a gut feeling on havo, surely the multiple hammers couldnt be scummy, it’s risky as, but

We have dunk who’s PR is uncontested and probably legit given the number of claims for Vt we have

We have chumba who we know is town and Tchill is questionable

We also know not mafia was town


I know I’m town to here this PoEs is down to tchill and Eth0s and havo 2 if 3 are scum



If eth0s is genuinely confused about how mass claims work at the end of a game and he is just a noob, it’s havo and tchill

If eth0s appears scum then either could be his mate

Obviously, there is a difference between eth0s and not_mafia in terms of their contribution levels throughout the game - however it is worth pointing out that as much as not_maf got lynched for refusal to claim, eth0s is also in the same boat thus far- and to be fair to Not_maf, he could have blocked a scum kill and had no info so I can see why he didn’t want to claim.


Now, also looking at the day yesterday, Eth0s and chumba went at it, chumba died. This directs the town towards Eth0s as today’s lynch because the real scum can suggest scum killed their biggest threat - ie chumba being on eth0s- obviously the scum want us to mislynxh so it makes more sense the scum team is havo and tchil


Given when I did a read analysis that tchil had universally the most town reads and didn’t die on the nights when Una and Lycan did which were apparently just killing very towny players it adds up

I haven’t read back to see if tchil or havo had any interactions with the guys who were NKd which i will do in a bit

Bit for now I am declaring

intent to lynch tchill

I won’t lay a vote down without discussion because if I’m wrong and scum bus we lose so no one actually vote please

[profii]

Further notes

Havo said good work to a post of mine before the mulch lynch
Even I read it back and thought that wasn’t particularly good work - I was sheeping a point chumba made which I felt was relevant

Havo was surprised I came out and town read him

Havo happened to remember a dunk reference to Lycan from post 200 and something: no one else did but those things tend to stick when you know the alignments (ie are scum) and are just waiting for a read list


Preferably tchill but havo is also a fine choice today guys

[profii]

you need to role claim now!

[profii]

so you have some kind of protection element that you don't want to admit because if you think if you protect the right person or roleblock the scum you can extend the game by a day.

you are highly unlikely to be a dr after not_maf so you probably can roleblock. you need to tell us who you roleblocks on the other nights so we can correlate the goings on and see if it leads us to victory.

if you do not provide your actions I will lynch you.

[profii]

So this adjusts my theory.

eth0s isn't a n00b who doesn't know why we should mass claim, he is a soft claiming PR that can potentially extend the game. This has become all too obvious so he should reveal everything on the basis he is going to die tonight as scum have to target that as their biggest threat.

That leaves the rest of us as a lynch - me / havo / tchill / dunks.
Let's discard Dunks as the claim seems legit/uncontested etc. It's going to be pretty tough to find a definite scum out of the remaining 3 so there is high chance we mislynch.

This means the 2 remaining scum kill and win, doesn't matter if it was eth0s or not.

But with any further info, we can probably whittle down the 4 players. (I'm lock lock lock towning dunk tbh) and have half a chance - if we lynch 1 scum now, it's 1 scum vs 2 town tomorrow.

Therefore, no hardclaim + action list = eth0s lynch for me.

[profii]

so you have some kind of protection element that you don't want to admit because if you think if you protect the right person or roleblock the scum you can extend the game by a day.

you are highly unlikely to be a dr after not_maf so you probably can roleblock. you need to tell us who you roleblocks on the other nights so we can correlate the goings on and see if it leads us to victory.

if you do not provide your actions I will lynch you.

Quit trying to figure out my role as I have intentionally not claimed for good reason. I have no actions to provide. Like I said, lynch me if you must. But for your own sake use this game as a learning experience to never do/follow this stupid massclaim shit again. How anyone thinks it has helped us more than scum so far, is way beyond me.

lol a 1 shot doctor/role block / jail keeper?

[profii]

if you are any of the above, you action would be resolved before the kill shot so you might as well say what you can do, but don't say who you intend to use it on obviously.

you need to say something...

[profii]

Told you this would work.
I have a confession to make - I am the Jail keeper.

my actions were Una / Lycan / Chumba / havo

I'm trusting your claim as it adds up to your reluctance to claim, in the same spirit as Not_Mafia's reluctance.

That makes tchil and havo scum

I made excessive use of the word lock but then discovered people use the expression locktown regularly which diluted it a bit.
I used stitch up which is a UK Jail term (I work in a prison IRL lol but chumba missed the reference) and I'm sure I made another soft reference so I'l see if I can find it to try and prove my claim as I am going to guess Havo and TChill will push me today given that I'm the last PR to come out and I tried to lie for a bit.

I didn't want to claim until everyone else because if you were VT I could block the mafia kill so I was going to just see if I could ride it out but now I think we know everything.

Also, they are not going to kill you because they cant
the logical move is to kill me because I can stop their kill
they might go for dunks because he can watch me and prove the claim.

even though I made a big case for Havo and said go for Tchill first, is because I blocked Havo last night and the kill still went through - so Tchill is likely the ninja. I suggest we lynch him now and I'll block Havo.


winner winner chicken dinner.

[profii]

Some soft claims, these were the easy ones to ctrl + f, I'm sure there is one more I'll see if I can find it

Spoiler: use of word lock and stitch up

Quickly checking in I’ll pick up on some specific observations later when I have more time.

My first impression of day 2 is that everyone seems to have focussed on the boon-drama, this is a fairly natural thing to do I think but he was VT so although he appears to be a well regarded player on this site, I’m wary about considering he’s reads super locked on and wonder if the scum have used the natural drama focus to cast shade early

It concerns me that no one has mentioned Nero so far.

I agree some slots need to engage, so just to that effect for now
VOTE: eth0s

Ok, I don’t know why I locked town tchill so let’s unlock that
One thing I’ll bring to the tchill discussion is my D1 vote analysis 469 - tchill did make a weird move off and back on the wagon

However - earlier 400 earlier, I’d talked about the misquote slip Chumba brought to our attention and Tchill encourages me to vote for him

I think I could be down for that but I did like he didn’t dodge the misquote thing earlier

You "like" that he "didn't dodge" something???








without even knowing what the fuck you are talking about this already sounds like scum reasoning

moving on a bit as I was looking at the point that Tchill raised where he said Mulch had ignored all the red flags against Fykus. I think it’s my naivety in this game that I didn’t just straight up vote the aforementioned misquote. In hindsight, great spot by Chumba, easy to say post-flip...

Anyway, this was the first Fykus related post by mulch, as tchill says about 100 odd posts into the ISO
Mulch did make the point he had around 27 pages to catch up on so I can forgive him that, however this post alarms me.

At this stage, Mulch has addressed me when I was addressing the Fykus slip. I still stand by my post above that Fykus did make a reasonable unconcerning effort to respond to pressure but Chumba saw through that.

I am concerned if Mulch is as great as he seems to think he is, he claims to not know what’s going on but at this point I think he knows he should be lynching Fykus, it’s easy enough to click on post links or ISOs to find out and drive your point home


So by looking into tchill I actually want to

VOTE: Mulch

btw eth0s i have an answer prepped and ready to go as soon as you tell me if youre an alt or not

This is my main and only account as of right now.

Just to be clear, because this formulates a key part of my theory to lock town you are you saying you had an alt but dont bother with it any more and stick to eth0s these days? Or are you saying you may alt in the future? or are you saying you are just plain old eth0s and this will be it.

Please dont be vague like that again, it makes baby jesus cry

@eth0s

I retract my theory. You said when i replaced in, I thought you are new, so i checked the replace queue for your name and didnt get any results but looking at your history you've replaced in some games. I was going to call you a fibber but never mind. I just wanted you to admit no alts so i could pin you right down, but never mind. (I also said it was a lock town theory so you didnt get worried about what i was up to and answer honestly sorry )


anyway, I did say I was going to answer you query, so despite planning to destroy you for lying, I feel like I at least owe you one

Just to be clear, you had scum read the Taco/Mulch slot (not sure during the taco/mulch era) then at some point based on Mulchs contributions you decided to town read him. Chumba is apparently pushing you because he scum read the slot and wasn't sure what made you change your mind?

The rest of this post is based on that premise, so if I've misunderstood, ignore anything from here on in...


So personally, I noted that Mulch had put a scum read on pretty much every player bar Una at some point in his spam fest. I really dont see his play as scum hunting I see it as spray and pray to see what sticks, he is more interested in leading a lynch and getting the glory if it's scum, than actually focusing on getting scum. So as far as I am concerned I dont find his playstyle a credible scum hunting method and i tend to ignore him. Obviously he flipped town but I can forgive anyone for lynching him because he brought it upon himself. Frustratingly, it is likely a scum player will be on the wagon because it's easy to just quote me and say 'well you said he brought it on himself, of course we lynched him" which is really annoying because we essentially get no info about the players on the lynch majority.

in summary - 688 is right and you are right to agree with it. A succinct way of saying the paragraph above if you will.

i assume when you reference the later tchill posts 1042 etc you went back to town reading mulch on the basis that you didnt want to be in the same boat as tchill. This doesn't actually tell us that you think mulch is town, it says you still think he is scum but you think tchill is scummier. (imo)

You then said tchill wanted a mulch mislynch, so you now do think mulch is town, otherwise it wouldnt be a mislynch.


So personally, I dont think you have answered Chumba's question clearly. He specifically asked what scum hunting you saw Mulch do, but you didnt really highlight anything, other than you dont trust Tchill.

The other part of your question was that you are scum reading him and do i think you should? Well, I think he tunnelled taco wrongly, but I have seen him tunnel so it's in his meta. He says he is on full reset and re-evaluate so I'd say give him the benefit of the doubt and see how he reads everyone from here on it - that's what I'll be doing.

So this adjusts my theory.

eth0s isn't a n00b who doesn't know why we should mass claim, he is a soft claiming PR that can potentially extend the game. This has become all too obvious so he should reveal everything on the basis he is going to die tonight as scum have to target that as their biggest threat.

That leaves the rest of us as a lynch - me / havo / tchill / dunks.
Let's discard Dunks as the claim seems legit/uncontested etc. It's going to be pretty tough to find a definite scum out of the remaining 3 so there is high chance we mislynch.

This means the 2 remaining scum kill and win, doesn't matter if it was eth0s or not.

But with any further info, we can probably whittle down the 4 players. (I'm lock lock lock towning dunk tbh) and have half a chance - if we lynch 1 scum now, it's 1 scum vs 2 town tomorrow.

Therefore, no hardclaim + action list = eth0s lynch for me.

Let’s see

randommidget - ?
Fykus - concern at that rush to lynch today, but had promised further analysis
Dunker - seems to be posting in a towny manner
Tchill - you seem to have ceased your concerning efforts to buddy me
Sergtacos - town lean on the basis I think he is getting stitched up today for a mislynch
UnaBombah - town lean
Lycan - town lean
Havo - set themselves up for a free pass today, null read but concerned.
eth0s - need more content, null.
Chumba - potential involvement in stitching up of Taco so scum lean

That’s where I’m at. Feel free to query

[profii]

Let's sense check the setup

Not_Mafia 2-shot doctor!
•Nero Cain, ascetic motion detector!
Profii - Jailkeeper
eth0s - 1SBP
Dunkers - watcher


Morality, vanilla townie!
•UnaBombaH, vanilla townie!
•Mulch vanilla townie!
•Lycanfire, vanilla townie!
Chumba, vanilla townie!
•
•

•Fykus, mafia goon!
tchill - ninja?
havo mafia ?



anyone say that looks suspect?

[profii]

That actually casts a minor bit of doubt on Dunkers, because we have a watcher and a motion detector. But I've only seen 1 normal setup on this site so far so IDK.

In the negative column, he had a weird read on lycan that got pointed out.
In the plus column he looked at Tchill twice which seems logical as I said he was town read heavily and should have been a likely NK if he wasn't scum

On the whole I'm a believer of Dunkers and eth0s which completes the game for me, obviously you both need to believe me as well.

Either way, if there was any doubt over Dunkers, I am absolutely certain on eth0s, therefore 1 of Tchill and Havo MUST be scum.

I jailkept Havo and the kill still happened, so that means the ninja could be Tchill or minor possibility of it actually being dunkers.

I suggest we go for Tchill as I think it's most likely.

I will probably die, but I can roleblock Havo in the mean time, which will either save me, or point the last scum as Dunkers, which havo and eth0s can lynch.


eth0s, I know you had doubts on dunkers, but what are you thoughts now?

[profii]

if we NK tchill
I jail keep havos
no point watching eth0s or havo, so dunkers has to watch me
should see nothing, but if someone dies, then dunker scum. Havo and Eth0s to win game.

but if eth0s is lying. wp to you sir, doubt it though.

[profii]

how did you get a result on Chumba when I had him in Jail? haha die scum

[profii]

you are right I mis read it.

glad you pointed that out because I was about to lynch in confidence that you are scum I'll be re-reading

[profii]

For clarity :

Night	1	2	3	4
Dunker watched:	Havo	tchill	Lycan	tchill
Profii Jailed	Una	Lycan	Chumba	Havo
TChill checked	None	Eth0s (not VT)	Not_Maf (not VT)	Chumba (town)

[profii]

Hang on.

There are enough bread crumbs that your role claim is legit, even if you were scum you would not have known that Eth0s and Not_Maf were non-vanilla so I believe you are Neapolitan

That doesn't clear you as town just yet.


Personally I think eth0s claim is the most legit. So if I'm saying eth0s is town, I believe the scum killed Chumba to point us towards eth0s, as they were at it in the previous day.
This, along with the Taco/Nero theory demonstrates signs of planning from the scum. One theory could be the Chumba action from Tchill could be manufactured so TChill can jump in and say 'well I wouldn't read the person we are killing would I'

So that means, that Tchill is unlikely to be a Neapolitan ninja - if he commited the kill, the scum would of had to have said 'let's not use our ninja kill power, so that TChill can manufacture a PR claim but the risk is someone spots it' I don't think that would happen, therefore with Havo in jail, I don't think TChill commited the kill. Town cleared.


That points me at Dunkers. Given the early sus read and we already had a motion detector, I think his claim could be sus.


thoughts?


And yes, genuine mistake, if we lose the game because I got excited because I thought I caught you out, it would be terrible. Please accept that otherwise we lose the game!!!!

[profii]

Also, the double check of Tchill irk'd me and I'm suggesting scum #2 is Havo

[profii]

argh wait. If I am doubting dunkers claim, there is nothing to say they actually have a ninja

[profii]

Profii. Why do you believe eth0s claim so hastily? What's the point of him not claiming day 4?

I'll re-read his ISO properly but he was pretty desperate to not reveal which would absolutely nerf his power, it matches where Not_mafia was coming from for the same reasons, however eth0s played it better by actually contributing.

He does play with a bit of a weird logic but I think he is playing for town win.

I was going to criticise your push on Not_Maf but if you are town knowing he is non-vanilla plus lack of content is pretty bad. Chumba pretty much went there for the same reasons without knowing the non-vanilla bit so it's legit logic.

[profii]

agree on the dunker thing and him not dying + the random Lycan town shout.

What tactic would you play with eth0s in that situation?

I was considering a claim 1 but last to Dunkers but given I can block a kill I really really wanted to wait to last minute with Jail Keeper so I am basically employing the same strategy - the not maf lynch happened when I was asleep so I kinda avoided the issue.

I went for Havo because he has had no pressure for his quick hammers, I wondered if scum were taking a massive chance that due to no pressure he was doing the kills as well. the first 2 were my best efforts to protect town and I picked Chumba because I'd failed twice and struggled to read him - when nothing happened I assume he was probably VT and quickly buddied him a bit on D3 compared to previous interactions.

[profii]

I can't work it out, my best conclusion is that it makes the story a bit more believable and maybe that is filed under AtE.

I am working on the premise that I know havo didn't commit the N4 kill, so if the other scum is Dunker then he could believe as the motion detector is dead, he might be able to chance a ninja claim. Or he is the ninja and can chance a watcher claim, knowing no one saw it which is the AtE bit.

[profii]

I just town cleared you, did you see that?

[profii]

ok so the eth0s ISO:


#385 - Voted me because the Taco theory was out there - but I say this was proved right, so this is an alarm bell.


#783 - I pointed out I come up with theories and i was town in my last game, although I can be wrong, it's what I do. eth0s went Mulch

That reminds me of the whole eth0s vs Mulch vs Chumba episode, and I think I made quite clear analysis on how I think that went in #1173

As I was making the point in post #1165 - eth0s claimed he was doing the opposite of what I was evidencing in #1173 - so this is a concern too.

He then moves on to #1215 and tries to dismiss the whole debate, which again, a concern because I think he's been caught out or can't explain his action.


the only other main point is that there is a general theme of eth0s scum reading Tchill which he does not relax in his post today #1320

throughout the ISO you could read it as conf bias s/s distancing but given he hasn't relaxed this today and scum only need to lynch 1 town to win, I am guessing they are not s/s.

[profii]

ok so the eth0s ISO:


385 - Voted me because the Taco theory was out there - but I say this was proved right, so this is an alarm bell.


783 - I pointed out I come up with theories and i was town in my last game, although I can be wrong, it's what I do. eth0s went Mulch

That reminds me of the whole eth0s vs Mulch vs Chumba episode, and I think I made quite clear analysis on how I think that went in [post]1173

As I was making the point in post 1165 - eth0s claimed he was doing the opposite of what I was evidencing in 1173 - so this is a concern too.

He then moves on to 1215 and tries to dismiss the whole debate, which again, a concern because I think he's been caught out or can't explain his action.


the only other main point is that there is a general theme of eth0s scum reading Tchill which he does not relax in his post today 1320

throughout the ISO you could read it as conf bias s/s distancing but given he hasn't relaxed this today and scum only need to lynch 1 town to win, I am guessing they are not s/s.

fixed post links

[profii]

Tchill did you know you are the most town read player?

Is there a reason for this post?

Because it’s eye catchingly out of place.

It came out of my little analysis of who is reading whom which way. Tchill had the most town reads. Wasn’t expecting it so thought I’d highlight

Still an odd remark. Definitely wanted to put the spotlight on me with that comment.

ok so the eth0s ISO:


#385 - Voted me because the Taco theory was out there - but I say this was proved right, so this is an alarm bell.


#783 - I pointed out I come up with theories and i was town in my last game, although I can be wrong, it's what I do. eth0s went Mulch

That reminds me of the whole eth0s vs Mulch vs Chumba episode, and I think I made quite clear analysis on how I think that went in #1173

As I was making the point in post #1165 - eth0s claimed he was doing the opposite of what I was evidencing in #1173 - so this is a concern too.

He then moves on to #1215 and tries to dismiss the whole debate, which again, a concern because I think he's been caught out or can't explain his action.


the only other main point is that there is a general theme of eth0s scum reading Tchill which he does not relax in his post today #1320

throughout the ISO you could read it as conf bias s/s distancing but given he hasn't relaxed this today and scum only need to lynch 1 town to win, I am guessing they are not s/s.

You didn't notice weird list pattern or the awareness of how posts came off as towny or scummy? That's odd.

Was rushing through the ISO before I left work. I’m phone posting now

I thought on reflection of Eth0s history, there is enough in my post to cast doubt over his alignment - particularly the flip on Mulch that Chumba caught.

When you say patterns do you mean the bits where you’ve highlighted who is scum/in LyLo ? I guess I’ve not been in enough LyLo a to know to look for that.

I think the only way to convince you I’m a jail keeper is to lynch who you theorize is the other scum and jail keep you tonight but please go with this because I’d you lynch me then we lose but I can save someone tonight

[profii]

What about this?

Wouldn’t Dunk get the same No result if he was roleblocked?

Would make sense why he’s still alive. Scum simply role blocked him

And kept him alive to create doubt.

This seems like scum who has spotted that tchill will vote for me and appealing to Dunkers to make it 3

[profii]

Hang on.

There are enough bread crumbs that your role claim is legit, even if you were scum you would not have known that Eth0s and Not_Maf were non-vanilla so I believe you are Neapolitan

That doesn't clear you as town just yet.


Personally I think eth0s claim is the most legit. So if I'm saying eth0s is town, I believe the scum killed Chumba to point us towards eth0s, as they were at it in the previous day.
This, along with the Taco/Nero theory demonstrates signs of planning from the scum. One theory could be the Chumba action from Tchill could be manufactured so TChill can jump in and say 'well I wouldn't read the person we are killing would I'

So that means, that Tchill is unlikely to be a Neapolitan ninja - if he commited the kill, the scum would of had to have said 'let's not use our ninja kill power, so that TChill can manufacture a PR claim but the risk is someone spots it' I don't think that would happen, therefore with Havo in jail, I don't think TChill commited the kill. Town cleared.


That points me at Dunkers. Given the early sus read and we already had a motion detector, I think his claim could be sus.


thoughts?


And yes, genuine mistake, if we lose the game because I got excited because I thought I caught you out, it would be terrible. Please accept that otherwise we lose the game!!!!

reviewing my theory because you are clearly pushing for me to get lynched which will be a scum win.

scum!tchill could be Neo and have the info he quoted - except chumba as that’s pointless, but is a nice manufacture.

I _know_ havo was in Jail night 4 so I don’t think ANY scum team sacrifices use of 2 powers so given Tchill probably used his action _somewhere_ on night4 lets town Havo.

This means we are looking at Dunkers, the PR who who double read tchill - low risk if you know no one is calling him out, Lycan who is dead and Havo who didn’t get any pressure for repeated pressure - so no one has probably visited here

Or we have eth0s who has a legit reason not to claim 1sbp but flipped on Mulch.

If it’s Dunker then the ninja claim is just rubbish we can ignore, if it’s eth0s then obviously he is a ninja

Either way it doesn’t matter they both fit as tchill plus 1 as the scum



Sooooo if we lynch Scum!tchill we get to Jail keep one of Dunkers and eth0s- given there is doubt over the 1sbp claim we go into LyLo again with probably me dead because I can’t protect myself and Havo has to make the decision



Given that Tchilll is pretty set on pushing me and that creates a loss I feel no responsibilities in doing this

VOTE: TChill13

[profii]

I suppose if I role block eth0s - Dunker can either watch or kill me

Then Dunker can verify & win with Havo or Eth0s and Havo can win

[profii]

Tchill is wrong and will cause a town loss so I need to provide a trust tell to try and convince you. I know I made a mistake but lynch me and game over.

The only other thing I can do is offer to do is Jail keep Tchill so he can verify his fail tomorrow - I think by flushing my theory out putting you (havo) as VT works and the fake claim is Eth0s/ Dunks - I believe Tchill!Neo I just think Scum aligned

[profii]

Your vote should be on ETHOS.

What if eth0s is 1sbp and dunks is scum

Then dunks + the other kill and win


Eth0s came in and town read me. Surely the scum tactic is to provide no reads and wait for someone else to read someone who they can encourage until both scum are online...


My theory works because tchill is pushing you at me and my jailkeeper power puts us at checkmate when we remove scum!tchill

[profii]

Tchill is wrong and will cause a town loss so I need to provide a trust tell to try and convince you. I know I made a mistake but lynch me and game over.

The only other thing I can do is offer to do is Jail keep Tchill so he can verify his fail tomorrow - I think by flushing my theory out putting you (havo) as VT works and the fake claim is Eth0s/ Dunks - I believe Tchill!Neo I just think Scum aligned

A trust tell implies that you know I won't be hammered by scum.

not really, if havo trusts me and scum hammers. I Jail keep Eth0s and we get another day - the only move scum!dunks has is no kill on purpose so we lynch him then we lynch him and I can jail keep Eth0s again if we didn’t win with havo

You said the low posters worried you and you weren't even know the notmafia lynch.

What? I was asleep when NotMaf got lynched

[profii]

I can die and we can win no problem.

we lynch scum!Tchill.
I Jailkeep eth0s.

So the 2 scenarios are scum!eth0s or scum!dunks


No NK = either scum!eth0s or crafty frame job by scum!dunks.
either way, me / have / dunks will lynch eth0s, it's the only way. Even eth0s should self vote if he is town. (if it's scum!eth0s town win)

I then jail keep scum!dunks again and there is no NK again. Me and Havo lynch Dunks, town win.


Or if scum!dunks kills me, town!eth0s and town!havo kill dunks, town win.


job done, even if I die, plus my role would be confirmed.

[profii]

So town has no investigative?

And once again town has a watcher and a role detector but mafia have a ninja?

you're right, scum neo is much more feasible

[profii]

Wait if you're willing to risk the game on this then you must know the scum team? Who's my supposed partner profii?

no idea, but i dont need to know because i can use my jailkeeper power to keep the game going long enough to help everyone else work it out.

at this point obviously I've made the mistake of mixing up the nights but I can see the long game path to town victory - obviously i can clearly see you are trying to push me in front of any town player who will go for it so i am just hopefully havo and the other town player see that too... there's nothing else i can do

[profii]

I can die and we can win no problem.

we lynch scum!Tchill.
I Jailkeep eth0s.

So the 2 scenarios are scum!eth0s or scum!dunks


No NK = either scum!eth0s or crafty frame job by scum!dunks.
either way, me / have / dunks will lynch eth0s, it's the only way. Even eth0s should self vote if he is town. (if it's scum!eth0s town win)

I then jail keep scum!dunks again and there is no NK again. Me and Havo lynch Dunks, town win.


Or if scum!dunks kills me, town!eth0s and town!havo kill dunks, town win.


job done, even if I die, plus my role would be confirmed.

Why would you jail keep eth0s he's 1 shot BP?

based on my original theory where you are scum and you used your power to look at someone other than chumba N4 and you just lied, that means your scum partner made the kill on chumba. That means havo is conf-town as he was in Jail.

Therefore you partner is eth0s or dunks. 1 is lying clearly. If I jailkeep dunks and no one dies, we wifom over the 1sbp claim. If I take that out of the game I use my jailkeeper power to win the game. I KNOW this works which is why I'm laying my vote down

[profii]

That's the trust tell. If Havo + the other town person trust me, we win. If havo + your scum mate hammers, we win. If you can convince 1 town you are not pushing mislynch on me based on my mix up with the nights, scum win with you + that townie + the other scummer.

Those are the 2 paths this game takes from here.


I highly doubt a scum team of eth0s and dunker make 2 fake claims. Now we've talked it through. I'm conf-town'ing havo

[profii]

I can die and we can win no problem.

we lynch scum!Tchill.
I Jailkeep eth0s.

So the 2 scenarios are scum!eth0s or scum!dunks


No NK = either scum!eth0s or crafty frame job by scum!dunks.
either way, me / have / dunks will lynch eth0s, it's the only way. Even eth0s should self vote if he is town. (if it's scum!eth0s town win)

I then jail keep scum!dunks again and there is no NK again. Me and Havo lynch Dunks, town win.


Or if scum!dunks kills me, town!eth0s and town!havo kill dunks, town win.


job done, even if I die, plus my role would be confirmed.

Why would you jail keep eth0s he's 1 shot BP?

based on my original theory where you are scum and you used your power to look at someone other than chumba N4 and you just lied, that means your scum partner made the kill on chumba. That means havo is conf-town as he was in Jail.


Therefore you partner is eth0s or dunks. 1 is lying clearly. If I jailkeep dunks and no one dies, we wifom over the 1sbp claim. If I take that out of the game I use my jailkeeper power to win the game. I KNOW this works which is why I'm laying my vote down

Once again. You're post show you don't even think about the fact YOU could be the NK. Consistently ignoring that thought.

If I'm NK then I get revealed as a Jail Keeper and everyone trusts me. havo + the other town kill the last scum because my jailkeep stops a kill

[profii]

Problem with your theory is when scum decide to no kill when you jail keep a towny.

if I jail keep eth0s, lets say dunk is scum, he kills havo. me and eth0s kill dunk.

if i jail keep eth0s, lets say dunk is scum, he kills me, i flip jail keeper - my honesty is proven. Havo/eth0s lynch dunker.

if i jail keep eth0s, lets say dunk does nothing for lulz, we lynch eth0s anyway because of the wifom (As i said, even town!eth0s should self vote here!) . I jail keep dunker, no kill, me and havo lynch to win.


it only goes wrong if havo is scum, but you are likely a neo due to the breadcrumbs you gave us, which means havo didnt kill based on him being in jail which means your scum partner is eth0s/dunkers


i mean at that point, I'd expect dunker to conceed defeat along the way,but we can drag it out if you want

[profii]

If you die next night phase how does your jk stop a kill?

You're 110 percent certain I'm scum and must convince dunk of that certainty also because when I flip town from dunks perspective if you don't JK scum then scum win.

You're scum bro. So is eth0s.

it doesnt have to, see above.

[profii]

oh i forgot.

i jail keep eth0s - no kill happens because scum!eth0s, dunks would hammer with me and havo as the plan is we kill eth0s either way.

[profii]

Problem with your theory is when scum decide to no kill when you jail keep a towny.

if I jail keep eth0s, lets say dunk is scum, he kills havo. me and eth0s kill dunk.

if i jail keep eth0s, lets say dunk is scum, he kills me, i flip jail keeper - my honesty is proven. Havo/eth0s lynch dunker.

if i jail keep eth0s, lets say dunk does nothing for lulz, we lynch eth0s anyway because of the wifom (As i said, even town!eth0s should self vote here!) . I jail keep dunker, no kill, me and havo lynch to win.


it only goes wrong if havo is scum, but you are likely a neo due to the breadcrumbs you gave us, which means havo didnt kill based on him being in jail which means your scum partner is eth0s/dunkers


i mean at that point, I'd expect dunker to conceed defeat along the way,but we can drag it out if you want

That's given I'm scum lol. That's the problem.

well havo has either gone offline or he can see my plan has some sense.... i admire you for not giving up

[profii]

Given this has come down to me vs you. it's clear one of us is scum and I have a clear plan to earn a town win. All town need to do is trust that I am a JK.

I can't really say any more than that

[profii]

If profii and chumba are town this game.... I just found some new friends.

Due to opinions on day 1.

Even though you're scum here I'll keep an eye out for you in sign up lists.

I accept this as confirmation that you accept this has come down to me vs you therefore one of us is town and one of us is scum (so i know I'm right)

I say good game to you sir and let's see how the town decide who the victor may be.


I will be gutted if town go with you because I got confused which night I jailed chumba, i just thought i caught you out

[profii]

im not sure how i double post whilst still writing my post

[profii]

Given this has come down to me vs you. it's clear one of us is scum and I have a clear plan to earn a town win. All town need to do is trust that I am a JK.

I can't really say any more than that

Is trust that you're a JK and I'm 200 percent scum.

I'll believe when you self vote

[profii]

ugh, fine.

77 - you denied it, but buddying the players you didnt know.

400 - now why would you query my Taco theory, which turned out right (i really want to see if this is in the scum PT btw!)

441 - i highlighted your lack of scum assertions, essentially, by not insulting anyone, more buddying. as i said you earned a lot of town reads. clever style, i give you that.

458 - you further contest the taco theory.

469 - the scummy way you move around on morality is explained here

497 & 510 - i further make the point you are essentially highly inoffensive, buddying style as per 441

933 - this is lols because you are there and it fits perfectly

1050 - further making my point you are buddying left right and centre





that's just reading my own iso and picking out bits which still stand to reason.

[profii]

If profii and chumba are town this game.... I just found some new friends.

Due to opinions on day 1.

Even though you're scum here I'll keep an eye out for you in sign up lists.

I accept this as confirmation that you accept this has come down to me vs you therefore one of us is town and one of us is scum (so i know I'm right)

I say good game to you sir and let's see how the town decide who the victor may be.


I will be gutted if town go with you because I got confused which night I jailed chumba, i just thought i caught you out

Nice misrep of the worst reason also. I've listed plenty reasons other than this.

nothing i havent/cant debunk(ed), i think anyone who sides with you will be focusing on that mistake, which is why you are parading me all over the place to try and get a mislynch. That would be a shame

[profii]

easily, you just gave away your scum partner as dunkers.

[profii]

but i'd still stick to my plan to ensure town victory as it's a royal flush of a hand

[profii]

you mean you created a question with an obvious answer to try and discredit me? Well as I've explained it doesn't matter who your partner is at this stage because my JK power wins us the game from here

[profii]

Profii. Why do you believe eth0s claim so hastily? What's the point of him not claiming day 4?

Why are you asking profii questions that you should be asking me? Why ignore my answer that is already posted?

Tchill did you know you are the most town read player?

Is there a reason for this post?

Because it’s eye catchingly out of place.

It came out of my little analysis of who is reading whom which way. Tchill had the most town reads. Wasn’t expecting it so thought I’d highlight

Still an odd remark. Definitely wanted to put the spotlight on me with that comment.

ok so the eth0s ISO:


#385 - Voted me because the Taco theory was out there - but I say this was proved right, so this is an alarm bell.


#783 - I pointed out I come up with theories and i was town in my last game, although I can be wrong, it's what I do. eth0s went Mulch

That reminds me of the whole eth0s vs Mulch vs Chumba episode, and I think I made quite clear analysis on how I think that went in #1173

As I was making the point in post #1165 - eth0s claimed he was doing the opposite of what I was evidencing in #1173 - so this is a concern too.

He then moves on to #1215 and tries to dismiss the whole debate, which again, a concern because I think he's been caught out or can't explain his action.


the only other main point is that there is a general theme of eth0s scum reading Tchill which he does not relax in his post today #1320

throughout the ISO you could read it as conf bias s/s distancing but given he hasn't relaxed this today and scum only need to lynch 1 town to win, I am guessing they are not s/s.

You didn't notice weird list pattern or the awareness of how posts came off as towny or scummy? That's odd.

Was rushing through the ISO before I left work. I’m phone posting now

I thought on reflection of Eth0s history, there is enough in my post to cast doubt over his alignment - particularly the flip on Mulch that Chumba caught.

When you say patterns do you mean the bits where you’ve highlighted who is scum/in LyLo ? I guess I’ve not been in enough LyLo a to know to look for that.

I think the only way to convince you I’m a jail keeper is to lynch who you theorize is the other scum and jail keep you tonight but please go with this because I’d you lynch me then we lose but I can save someone tonight

I really don't understand how my conversation with chumba could have been incriminating at all but okay. Also you're definitely not a JK, so I'm not sure what that's all about, but I still scumread you less than the other 3.

how do you come to the conclusion im not JK????

[profii]

nope - jailkeeper - read my scenarios carefully and it all explains how we cant lose

[profii]

nope - jailkeeper - read my scenarios carefully and it all explains how we cant lose

I did read it but I'm pretty sure you're overlooking something. I will re-read it more thoroughly after I finish this assignment.

wouldnt have laid down the vote if it could be beaten.

[profii]

havo

[profii]

Need to note this so I dont forget. Me and profii voting tchill and havo being online but not hammering could be the key to winning this assuming tchill flips red.

havo is a VT he is being cautious but probably isnt siding with me, this means dunker havo and tchill will lynch me game lost.

[profii]

havo is town !!!!

[profii]

eth0s

looks carefully at this.

TChill left some legit breadcrumbs, he is almost certainly a NEO.

NEO is can be any alignment.

He likely lied about the Chumba check, as he waited last to reveal his actions and it can't be disproved.

Assuming Chumba is scum with an investigation power, another player must have killed chumba.

Havo was in Jail therefore he is conf town.

That leaves you or dunker - given Tchills leading question about Dunker, I assume it's not you, because TChill can't bus his mate and risk another day where he might lose.

TChill is trying to goad me into some definitive case of proof, but this is a game where scum lie, it wont exist. This is enough.

Read my scenarios that mean we can eliminate the scum with my JK power which lead me to lynching TChill, it gives town 100% win.

My vote will be parked, as much as I suspect Dunker to be scum #2. I know my scenarios lead us to victory so I say to town, if you agree with me, vote with me, otherwise lynch me.

There is no more info to be had in this game and this is the most obvious solution

[profii]

ebwop
Assuming

Chumba

is scum with an investigation power,

Assuming TChill is scum with an investigation power,

[profii]

Where's your legit bread crumbs profii?

you mean the ones you left that prove you are neo? which you posted?? really???

[profii]

I mean the ones that are supposed to make people believe you're jail keeper. That way we're not just going off your word.

1369

also i got an unlock in on purpose in 1052 - this is inline with me saying i work in a prison IRL - locking and unlocking is obviously fairly key to life but not obvious enough to set anyone off which i thought made it a good breadcrumb.

yours is better, i do like that you are resorting to 'people should vote profii over me because my breadcrumbs are better than his' that made me chuckle

I will point out I'm pretty sure I forced the word lock into the first post i made after day 1 because i got excited i survived with a PR and felt i needed to leave something behind early on.

[profii]

ugh, fine.

77 - you denied it, but buddying the players you didnt know.

400 - now why would you query my Taco theory, which turned out right (i really want to see if this is in the scum PT btw!)

441 - i highlighted your lack of scum assertions, essentially, by not insulting anyone, more buddying. as i said you earned a lot of town reads. clever style, i give you that.

458 - you further contest the taco theory.

469 - the scummy way you move around on morality is explained here

497 & 510 - i further make the point you are essentially highly inoffensive, buddying style as per 441

933 - this is lols because you are there and it fits perfectly

1050 - further making my point you are buddying left right and centre





that's just reading my own iso and picking out bits which still stand to reason.

feel free to

[profii]

I bring up one thing and it's resorting lol. Touchy touchy.

I'm perfectly calm. I think this comes down to havo's vote but we will see.

Whichever way it goes, I've enjoyed this and it's been a hard fought end, May the best man win

[profii]

eth0s - Havo was in Jail night 4 when Chumba died.
Tchil (who you are voting for) is highly likely to be a Neo, given the evidence he has posted. This can be scum aligned so that is ok.
This means Havo was unable to kill, TChill was busy Neo'ing someone and a different scum player killed chumba.

Havo is conf town!!

[profii]

in theory go on...

[profii]

Doesn't matter. The fact that Eth0s didn't check the scum thread before he started posting should win us the game.

I honestly don't even know what you mean by this?

Can't believe someone laid down a vote in lylo without reading someone's iso lol. That's good stuff.

Keep echoing everything your scum mate says, LMAO. And keep ignoring my responses to everything the boulder says. You really need a new scum strat, dude.

eth0s - Havo was in Jail night 4 when Chumba died.
Tchil (who you are voting for) is highly likely to be a Neo, given the evidence he has posted. This can be scum aligned so that is ok.
This means Havo was unable to kill, TChill was busy Neo'ing someone and a different scum player killed chumba.

Havo is conf town!!

You serious profii??? Tchill could EASILY be a mafia goon/any other mafia role. He waited until EVERYONE claimed for himself to claim neo (giving him an action list that can't be easily disputed)... Think harder man. Havo is in no way conftown. Just because you apparently jailed him does NOT mean that tchill didn't kill chumba.

how do you explain his breadcrumbs, they were very accurate in line with his claim.

[profii]

If you've got something, give me the scenario, otherwise you are trying to make me come out and say dont know eth0s could be scum along with dunker.

the reason you are doing this is you fear Havo will see I'm right, so you need to get the eth0s vote away from you. You can't bus your mate today because I've shown my plan is 100% town win and you know it so you have have have to gun for me today and get rid of me.

so feel free to theorise on the basis i said yes it was dunker, but I am not moving from my lynch you and town win solution.

[profii]

I'm saying from your perspective as soon as eth0s voted me. That means you could have been voting in lylo WITH SCUM. Since you didn't want to say if dunk or eth0s made the kill.

You're hesitation to answer the question is pretty funny

You're too worried about what your answers will look like. You're scum.

lol this is so funny you are trying every trick in the book, trying to discredit more for that. Now you are just casting shade.

I'm saying it doesn't matter I have a game winning solution that I dont need to stray from.

I would say it's 75% dunker is scum, 25% eth0s.

If eth0s is scum, neither of you are the encryptor so you cant give him a nudge, and eth0s hasn't read or understood that I have the game won and he is trying to bus his mate for town cred. Hence I think it is significantly more likely that Dunker is scum.



The fact that you are alluding to something and wont share it, means it is nothing because if you can prove someone is scum that includes my claim as legit. I'll go with it if it seems more likely than where I'm going. I am pretty certain I have this sewn up though, but go on I dare you

[profii]

Tchill will You vote Dunker with me