Mini 1972 - Friendship is Magic - Game over

HeWhoSwims · Post Post #17 (isolation #0) » Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:04 am

Hello every

pony

one

Second game on here, first normal one as my first one is a noobie.

VOTE: Maki Harukawa

Good luck everyone!

HeWhoSwims · Post Post #100 (isolation #1) » Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:30 pm

In post 57, Jodaxq wrote:
In post 31, Tchill13 wrote:VOTE: screen play L-1
Not sure what to think about this. It seems so scummy that I can't see scum doing it.

I agree with this. I feel like it would be too obvious an action for scum and especially for experienced scum.

I'm on my phone only until like 5 pm cet so no long reads from me now but I do feel like odd's reaction to Screenplay's reaction was somewhat iffy and he townreading 2 players for reasons I don't quite understand. It's early in the game and I'm not changing my vote. Will re-read the entire thread this afternoon

HeWhoSwims · Post Post #113 (isolation #2) » Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:42 am

In post 105, davesaz wrote:
In post 100, HeWhoSwims wrote:
In post 57, Jodaxq wrote:
In post 31, Tchill13 wrote:VOTE: screen play L-1
Not sure what to think about this. It seems so scummy that I can't see scum doing it.
I agree with this. I feel like it would be too obvious an action for scum and especially for experienced scum.
Scum might do it for exactly that reason. There is usually far more pressure on the hammer vote, especially if quick. And if it's a bus they get to use it as an argument against being a partner for the rest of the game.

I can see what you (and others) are saying. I'd personally think scum doing something like that would take a risk as it could lead to more discussion which might hurt scum... then again I don't have too much experience around here and nothing else about Tchill seems suspicious to me.

Tchill13 wrote:how in the world are beef and odd getting thrown around as town reads?

For now I'm asking myself too, not because they look scummy to me but because I just haven't seen them do anything really pro-town... unsure what exactly to make of odd, on one hand his "screenplay's reaction is out of place" is a bit weird to me but after that he seems to dive into the wagon on screen. Calling beef and jodaxq "very town" again this early is eh.

Beef, I'm not sure what to make of him so far. It's way too early to throw out definitive leads. Something that does spring out to me is that he initially votes for oddmusic, then Tchill, then seems to believe in Tchill's "1 of these is scum" idea and votes back on oddmusic. As I said I'm not sure what exactly to make of it but it just sprung out to me. You could probably argue it's pro-town because he's keeping an open view and is not tunneling, you could also say it's being confusing, or that it's contributing to discussion... for now I tend to lean towards this being pro-town as it might lead to more discussion and content, which means more reads which means better chances for Town.

HeWhoSwims · Post Post #182 (isolation #3) » Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:58 pm

Between Tchill and Beef I'm moreso leaning towards Beef being scum. Sure some of Tchill's behavior is a bit eh and could be seen as not pro-town. Iso-ing him there are a lot of posts with little content where it gets to the point that if Tchill were actually scum, he would've made it way obvious. Yes, WIFOM is a thing, but I'd personally think that if scum would act like this it would be way too big a risk. And, while some may see Tchill's actions as weird/scum it is exactly that that enables discussion --> more content --> more reads.

Beef on the other hand also has some shady stuff, but it seems to me that in a few posts he'd rather focus on who's getting lynched than on extracting reads which... sort of contradicts his point about not quickhammering. As Jodaxq said in 175 the whole Havo thing is sort of coming across as tryhard. Shady at points, but I'm unsure on Beef for now. We have a lot of time left though.

HeWhoSwims · Post Post #183 (isolation #4) » Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:01 pm

In post 179, Jodaxq wrote:I'm a little concerned about how reluctant Davesaz seems to be about contributing. Most of his posts are just asking everyone else what they think. Maki Harukawa also seems to be a little guarded.

I can definitely see this, their content is empty content if you get what I'm saying. One thing that separates Dave from Maki is that I feel Dave's post at the very least allow for a bit discussion, albeit it is others discussing while he watches on from the sideline (why?). It's a small thing but it's something I'm not seeing as much in Maki's posts.

HeWhoSwims · Post Post #218 (isolation #5) » Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:36 am

In post 184, davesaz wrote:Is it better to ask people questions aimed at finding out the reason behind their posting, or assume what their reason was?

It is certainly better to ask them for their thoughts, it's a great way to enable discussion and as I mentioned I think that's the good part about your posts, but I see what Jodaxq (I think?) was getting at as there's not that much new content from your side. I'm not sure if that's worth a scumread for now however since as I said you're enabling discussion and I doubt that's what scum would want to do.

HeWhoSwims · Post Post #220 (isolation #6) » Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:53 am

In post 206, Tchill13 wrote:2 scum in (Dave, beef, screen, odd)

Let's look into these.

Dave - Just talked about him, I don't think his actions warrant a scumread from me for now as the game is young.

Beef - Hard to read. I talked about him flipping votes between Tchill and oddmusic early on and I'm honestly not too sure what to make of that but I lean towards keeping an open mind which is pro town. However there is stuff like his reaction to Havo in 154. But afterwards questions others, argues for a longer day which I would find logical (more intel and I honestly doubt PRs suffer under it? Unexperienced though). And he posts his reads which is good I think. My mind says nulltown but my heart says null somehow because some stuff seems weird and I don't know with which of those two to go for now.

Screen - For now my top suspect out of these four. Looking at his iso I feel like most of his posts aren't contributing that much (although he has okay content like 52). Samples in 40 47 75 129, and I'm also not sure what to think of him suggesting giving Havo a free pass since I'm not getting big town vibes from him either for similar reasons.

Odd - On second thought still a tad suspicious for having few posts and that whole reaction-to-srceen post. However his train of thought in 66 seems towny for me. Needs to contribute more.

HeWhoSwims · Post Post #226 (isolation #7) » Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:00 am

We don't get info from day one but, we can lynch screen since he apparently is scum. Ah. Got it.

HeWhoSwims · Post Post #250 (isolation #8) » Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:34 am

In post 222, davesaz wrote:
In post 220, HeWhoSwims wrote:My mind says nulltown but my heart says null somehow because some stuff seems weird and I don't know with which of those two to go for now.
This hits me as a place where you wanted to say something else but then couldn't figure out how to say it. What you ended up with was mind and heart thinking roughly the same thing which seems odd to state them both. Trying to hide something?

What I'm meaning here is that I'm mostly reading Beef as scum but some stuff ticks me off. Mainly his sudden jump on Havo although I am leaning nullscum on Havo for the time being.

HeWhoSwims · Post Post #296 (isolation #9) » Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:30 am

Yeah no at the Tchill votes. I'm still townleaning on him. Not sure what to make of some of his posts but his recent posts are pro town to me, seeing as for example offers (multiple) lynch pools in 206 and 285 although the suspicion on Maki is a bit eh.

Speaking of which, I still have my vote on her but she's not among my top suspects for now. So yeah UNVOTE: Maki

If you ask me for townreads I'd say Joda (good content) and Dunn (good content + reads given) as my top 2.

On the other hand as for suspicious I'd say Havo whose ratio of content to actual contribution is... on the low side. Obviously it's day one and it's probably too early to jump to definite conclusions yada yada, but we have to lynch someone nevertheless and for now his posting behaviour seem iffy to me; barely any discussion, even about the things others are discussing (aside from D1 pros/cons) and being really convinced that Srceen is scum and steering for a lynch without really discussing it.

UCV hasn't contributed much either, lot of empty content there too. However his V/LA ended yesterday so I'm curious what he will show us from here on out. The same goes for wave although he did post reads.

So for now: VOTE: Havo

HeWhoSwims · Post Post #297 (isolation #10) » Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:30 am

Yeah no at the Tchill votes. I'm still townleaning on him. Not sure what to make of some of his posts but his recent posts are pro town to me, seeing as for example offers (multiple) lynch pools in 206 and 285 although the suspicion on Maki is a bit eh.

Speaking of which, I still have my vote on her but she's not among my top suspects for now. So yeah UNVOTE: Maki

If you ask me for townreads I'd say Joda (good content) and Dunn (good content + reads given) as my top 2.

On the other hand as for suspicious I'd say Havo whose ratio of content to actual contribution is... on the low side. Obviously it's day one and it's probably too early to jump to definite conclusions yada yada, but we have to lynch someone nevertheless and for now his posting behaviour seem iffy to me; barely any discussion, even about the things others are discussing (aside from D1 pros/cons) and being really convinced that Srceen is scum and steering for a lynch without really discussing it.

UCV hasn't contributed much either, lot of empty content there too. However his V/LA ended yesterday so I'm curious what he will show us from here on out. The same goes for wave although he did post reads.

So for now: VOTE: Havo

HeWhoSwims · Post Post #688 (isolation #11) » Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:39 pm

So uh hey, I was busy yesterday and went to sleep early, hoping I wouldn't miss much overnight but I missed like 10 pages. Sorry for being absent, will be catching up and posting now .

HeWhoSwims · Post Post #689 (isolation #12) » Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:05 pm

Spoiler: Page 13

Spoiler: Page 14

Spoiler: Page 15

HeWhoSwims · Post Post #690 (isolation #13) » Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:30 pm

Spoiler: Page 16

Spoiler: Page 17

Spoiler: Page 18

HeWhoSwims · Post Post #691 (isolation #14) » Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:49 pm

Spoiler: Page 19

Spoiler: Page 20

Spoiler: Page 21

HeWhoSwims · Post Post #692 (isolation #15) » Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:01 am

Spoiler: Page 22

Spoiler: Page 23

Spoiler: Page 24

Spoiler: Page 25

HeWhoSwims · Post Post #693 (isolation #16) » Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:07 am

I've got next to nothing to say about page 26. Can see the scumread on Tora but not tagging along on it for now.

Page 27 I see mention of "an oddmusic post" and if it's the one I think it is, 66 then yeah that's a town argument for Tora's slot. Short (shit)posts resume.

VOTE: Srceenplay for now since he's not contributing shit imo. Most recent posts are shitposting.

HeWhoSwims · Post Post #700 (isolation #17) » Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:28 am

Not a big fan of scumteam hunting before a flip because uuuh, finding a single scummy is already hard enough.

Not voting wave until the guy shows up.

HeWhoSwims · Post Post #702 (isolation #18) » Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:50 am

In post 701, Beefster wrote:^ I'm not sure what you mean here. Something seems a little off and sheepy about this.

You mean the wave vote? That's because I want to see the guy post and then see what he contributes (which hasn't been that much at all so far). Surely inactivity is a big scumtell but he's on V/LA and I guess we can assume he has his reasons for it.

HeWhoSwims · Post Post #710 (isolation #19) » Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:01 am

Scuse you but Lauren Rimmer is life.

And honestly wall posting is my way to go especially now that this game is active and I usually miss more than a page between two sittings at my pc. It seems it's annoying y'all however?

HeWhoSwims · Post Post #712 (isolation #20) » Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:38 am

Ah okay! Yeah I'd get it if people found it annoying if I only post walls.

The person in my avatar is Lauren Rimmer from the tv show Survivor. And well basically everyone who makes it far (as she did) has to lie at some point so uh yeah. She did get away with a lie as she instigated a major blindside though. She just happens to be my avatar because she's my favourite player this season.

HeWhoSwims · Post Post #729 (isolation #21) » Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:00 pm

@Tora that sentence from #100 was me saying I saw the reason Odd was being suspected but that it wasn't enough for me to change votes or suspect him that much yet.

HeWhoSwims · Post Post #764 (isolation #22) » Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:45 pm

I'm gonna say I'm townreading Tora for now. 737 has clear and explained reads and 745 just checks out. He's right in that scum would never claim mason. Could be town claiming mason but I doubt it, it seems it was agreed on beforehand and they could still be called out by possible actual masons.

HeWhoSwims · Post Post #765 (isolation #23) » Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:45 pm

(copy paste because mobile won't let me post all at the same time)

I was unsure about vote hopping when I read Beef before in some post about Tchill's pool and I still am not sure what exactly to make of it but combined with Tora's recent posting I think it's pretty townie as it shows the player is overthinking multiple options instead of one or two.
The only iffy stuff about Tora.. is his slot. As someone else said this might be exactly how odd's replacement would play if they were scum. However your recent game solving / townie posts outweigh this for me now.

HeWhoSwims · Post Post #776 (isolation #24) » Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:41 pm

I agree with the fact he has quite some meh posts but like Dave he's also asking questions and promoting discussion in some of his contributions. More activity would of course not hurt especially since he's not on a V LA

HeWhoSwims · Post Post #831 (isolation #25) » Sun Dec 17, 2017 10:10 am

I don't see how you can't at least consider Tora to be town right now. Fakeclaiming mason would be near suicide for the scumteam.

Tchill my townread on you is dropping. Not really seeing the contributions in your recent posts. I think Tora's vote flipping is a testimony of him re-reading the game and keeping an open mind and not tunnelling.

HeWhoSwims · Post Post #1039 (isolation #26) » Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:04 pm

6 pages again overnight

I'm quite sure that the mason claim isn't fake. It's been argued many times before but it would be way too big a risk for 2 actual scum to do it. That would out 2 scum out of a team of 3 (no experience but others are saying 3 scum). Plus Tora's recent posts are genuine scumhunting. Especially 1032.

I can see why Dunn/Havo/UCV are a very much a potential scumteam. I'm not a fan of Dunn being in there as he doesn't seem scum to me, I'd rather replace him with Srceenplay. I stepped off my vote for Havo a while ago but now I'm not a big fan of the contra tora posts. UCV just hasn't contributed much.

HeWhoSwims · Post Post #1086 (isolation #27) » Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:23 am

That was my surest non-mason townread as well :/

Before the vote there was talk of a UCV/Dune/Havo scumteam. UCV is obviously not scum, Havo has had some good early posts since the daybreak and I was never quite on the scum!Dunn train. At the same time, the pitcher of that scumteam itself is giving off scumlike vibes but we are really early into D2 so I'm not putting my vote anywhere for now.

Beef's early vote is eh but he was already (sort of) tunneling towards Tchill and the other way around. If either or both is/are town it isn't really helping.

Re:Srceen that hammer was definitely weird. I'm not sure what to say of just the hammer without context, because is it scum or is it way to obvious to be scum? That would be a WIFOM loop. However combined with the rest of his posts... still scumleaning.

HeWhoSwims · Post Post #1137 (isolation #28) » Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:24 am

Yeah mason silence is worrying.

Havo in the above posts checks out... if Screen is mafia then that almost confirms the fact the "masons" would be too. And I do still suspect Screen.

The masons-are-alive scenario is tricky. It seems a bit over the top for me for two of a scumteam to claim mason with the possibility of counterclaims, and then survive night one and go silent. It is a huge risk and although it could happen I'm doubting it for now.

HeWhoSwims · Post Post #1143 (isolation #29) » Thu Dec 21, 2017 8:07 am

In post 1138, Beefster wrote:
In post 1137, HeWhoSwims wrote:Yeah mason silence is worrying.

Havo in the above posts checks out... if Screen is mafia then that almost confirms the fact the "masons" would be too. And I do still suspect Screen.

The masons-are-alive scenario is tricky. It seems a bit over the top for me for two of a scumteam to claim mason with the possibility of counterclaims, and then survive night one and go silent. It is a huge risk and although it could happen I'm doubting it for now.

VOTE: HWS

Uh, sorry but what else am I supposed to say?

That the masons have been silent since the day started is a fact, I can't deny that. I didn't see anyone point out Havo's posts as contributions and the final part is contributing to resolving the biggest situation/issue we have now. I don't quite see where a sheeping accusation is coming form exactly.

HeWhoSwims · Post Post #1216 (isolation #30) » Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:08 am

In post 1157, Maki Harukawa wrote:We've lynching in Dunn/Havo/Sreen
today btw

Out of these I'm honestly only fine with putting a vote on Screen for now. Dunn isn't that much of a frequent poster but 1205 is scumhunting and IaI has indeed slipped under the radar. Havo, imo, has had good posts since the day change (although short, it still puts attention to the mason stuff).

Srceen is supposedly affiliated with the masons, I haven't noticed that as much as others have but his behaviour remains scummy to me.

So for now: VOTE: Srceenplay

HeWhoSwims · Post Post #1218 (isolation #31) » Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:24 am

What I'm extracting from Jodaxq iso in chronological order, mostly after RVS:

Spoiler: Joda iso

First of all I think the majority of us townread Joda which is probably the biggest reason she was killed by scum. If however scum noticed she was scumreading one member of the team then IaI and Wave are the ones we should mostly look at. IaI is as has been said eerily silent so far which could be scum trying to stay out of the mason discussion and all that... and hadn't had a ton of amazing content before the night either. However I'm keeping this to a FoS for now.

As for wave, he hasn't been a star contributor either and didn't really start contributing until 916 (aside from unexplained reads early on). However 1178 and 1180 seem townie to me.

And finally of course Joda's reads might have nothing to do with her being killed, but the possibility is real.

Keeping my vote on Srceen who I find more suspicious than these 2.

HeWhoSwims · Post Post #1219 (isolation #32) » Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:32 am

In post 1217, Srceenplay wrote:Since you are talking about today.
Show Havo great posts.
Show my scumy posts.

Havo, day 2:
1074 does call out masons.
1083 is showing him scumhunting, but also keeping an open mind ("These are still D1 reads")
1132 sort-of, but as I said I'm not seeing as much of you being with masons as has been said by others. Tchill could make a good info flip.
1150 could be worded better but I'm not a fan of Maki's post seeing she's the mason that didn't get nightkilled.
1151 again calling out and motivating masons to do stuff.
1176 shows willingness to keep an open mind (again) and scumhunting.

You... well let's start out with hammering UCV without ever leaving space for a claim or anything. That's just weird. My further problems with you (well, your slot) are that while your post counter is 110 atm, there are more posts with "empty content" that's not helping at all, than there are helpful posts although you've been better on D2 so far.

HeWhoSwims · Post Post #1222 (isolation #33) » Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:43 am

Your D2 content is pretty good, it's just that your D1 content left a sour taste in my mouth and that we are still pretty early in D2.

HeWhoSwims · Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:59 pm

In post 1223, Srceenplay wrote:Was Havo d1 good to you then or are you just basing you read on that slot based on d2?

My Havo read on D1 went from scumlean (before that huge night where I missed like 15 pages of mostly shitposting) to nulltown to null(ish) at the end while I was more consistently scumleaning on you for your posts on D1. Both of you have proven yourself on this day so far though as opposed to some others.

In post 1214, Maki Harukawa wrote:VOTE: havo
I think this should be lynched now that I think about it
Havo pr softed and with a doctor flip I doubt town has anymore prs

If someone is crumbing a PR then 1) why would we want it "outed" like this when it's not necessary, as opposed to in a situation where Havo is potentially lynched? And 2) it strikes me as ironic to not believe a PR claim while your own PR claim is being discussed heavily. Combined with quite some other posts on D2 you're not being very pro-town for a townie.

In post 1261, I Am Innocent wrote:Prododge until tomorrow. See the vote count, not that three of the scummier guys in the game voting me bothers me, but reasons when I catch up?

Why exactly do you think Beef and Dunn are being scum right now? I can see some arguments maybe but... they're not really my top suspects so to say.

HeWhoSwims · Post Post #1302 (isolation #35) » Sun Dec 24, 2017 5:04 am

In post 1286, Maki Harukawa wrote:so by your logic of I'm a pr i can't doubt other prs? I see

No, but it is a bit eh that you refer to the "town has no more prs" stuff when your own pr is being heavily discussed if you get what I'm saying.

Also, merry Christmas!

HeWhoSwims · Post Post #1442 (isolation #36) » Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:56 am

Can we have it cleared up why Srceen is going to be an info lynch and automatically connected to the mason pair? I'm not quite seeing it. Tchill I honestly think that you are descending into tunneling at some points. You did with Beef earlier and now with the masons. They are not playing that great at all no, not for what has to conftown. But that doesn't mean we can't keep an open mind. Such as for IAI whose posts aren't that amazing to me personally. I'd like to think that if there was another PR left in the game, they would've claimed by now to expose a possible lie by the "masons" and the fact they survived the night might just be scum trying to cause chaos, possibly.

Trying to go re read the pages since the december 24th and formulating a reads list tomorrow or maybe tonight.

HeWhoSwims · Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:03 am

How do you jump from 23 66 to pinpointing the scumteam in 940?

Odd jumping off the srceenwagon could be because uh, maybe he is town that doesn't want someone to be lolhammered just for fun without any discussion? Only thing that bugs me is that his srceenplay vote isn't an RVS vote which he says in 22.

I think the reasons you listed are not enough to warrant a gamewide accepted scumteam of Srceen/Maki/Tora. You are tunnelling way too much for me.

HeWhoSwims · Post Post #1496 (isolation #38) » Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:41 pm

Well that confirms Tora as town yada yada

I'm inclined to believe the Dunn claim for now. It makes sense to have more PRs because masons can't do fun stuff and doc would be more useful if like... They had someone to protect.

I see Havo, IaI, Dave, Wave, Tchill thrown around. If you put a gun to my head and told me to pick 3 it would be Innocent, Wave and Tchill but I'd need to reread these guys' isos soon.

HeWhoSwims · Post Post #1509 (isolation #39) » Sat Dec 30, 2017 1:25 am

Before we take it as fact, I do think town can have PRs left, be it Dunn or someone else. Masons don't have special powers and a doc would be more useful if it had an investigator role to protect if you catch my train of thought here. Yes there are problems with Dunn's play as a potential gunsmith. But he did slightly steer away from lynching Srceenplay. Although 1501 also makes sense and it's sorta stupid to check out masons... I'm not trying to say that Dunn is scum or town confirmed, just that we should consider all possibilities. Between Beef and Dunn being PR I am honestly in the dark on which one not to believe since I'm not scumleaning on either of them.

HeWhoSwims · Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:04 am

In post 1511, I Am Innocent wrote:Think about it people that is 6 clears in a 13 player game essentially:

Town gunsmith
2 masons
Town doc
2 clears from gunsmith

Give me scum roles that could counter this amount of power in a 13 player game. This would be a ridiculous amount of power in an 18 player game, it is impossible in a game this size.

Off to get my car serviced pretty much all I have to say anyway.

I mean, the only investigative role is gunsmith. And gunsmith could have been killed early on like Doctor was is in this universe, and with that it was apparently a 2-shot. Masons have each other confirmed as town but other than this they can't do shit and when they're out, one of them is bound to be killed. So whether or not Dunn's claim is real (and a meh play) or scum faking it (not likely for me at this point). If it's true however I would wonder what Beef's apparent role is? I'd say it's an X-shot thing anyway.

As for the PRs scum might have... Ninja? It could be. Strongman only if it's some X-shot thing because otherwise the doctor is useless. Encryptor doesn't help scum so much in fighting PRs, nor does Traitor. Perhaps a cop. I think someone suggested a scum doc earlier in the thread, could be possible to throw a wrench in the gunsmith's plans. Roleblocker would be likely to be present. Tracker/watcher, wouldn't know?

In post 1513, Toranaga wrote:it would have to be multiball at this point

Why? There has been 1 kill last night, after Doc has died. Wouldn't multiball have 2 kills last night without a doctor present?

In post 1531, Havo wrote: From just a quick skim through. I find it funny we have so many PRs but not any kind of a guilty on someone from any of them.

I don't find this too weird... PR wouldn't want to claim themselves unless it's really necessary, right? Which means a PR with a guilty can only crumb. And besides we know 3 people were a PR that's not investigating.

HeWhoSwims · Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:43 am

...which shows that being on both wagons doesn't make you scum, as seen with the masons. Could easily be wrong scumhunting on people who were suspicious (mostly UCV)

HeWhoSwims · Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:51 am

Didn't think he contributed much. Wasn't my ideal lynch either (I was highkey suspecting screen on Day 1) but I get it.

HeWhoSwims · Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:52 pm

I'm vanilla town.

HeWhoSwims · Sun Dec 31, 2017 11:02 am

So okay lemme try and break this down.

It seems that the top suspects are wave, dave, IAI and Tchill with Havo being thrown around. I shall try to ISO. Guess most of the D1 stuff isn't that useful without a scumflip right? Bussing and genuine accusations would be indistinguishable I think, as would be the case with scum defending each other and people actually trying to disprove accusations they don't believe. If there's anything really tipping me off then it will be included.

Spoiler: Wavemode

Spoiler: Dave

Spoiler: I Am Innocent

Spoiler: Tchill

Spoiler: Havo

In order from most likely scum to town, I'd say

Tchill > IaI > Wave/Dave > Havo.

HeWhoSwims · Sun Dec 31, 2017 11:03 am

So yeah I can live with IAI/Dave/Wave but Tchill would be my biggest worry there tbh.

HeWhoSwims · Sun Dec 31, 2017 11:27 am

Since I'm celebrating it in 30 mins; happy new year in advance

HeWhoSwims · Post Post #1656 (isolation #47) » Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:37 am

Regardless of who we lynch, Tora should get everything he has to say into the thread just in case he's the nightkill, which is very possible (no one else is 100% conftown as he is)

I think dunn's claim is -fine- actually because he did it at start of the day and there wasn't much of a reason for him to do so as scum. it's not like dunn would have been lynched this gameday anyway and it's not a safe claim if you're doing ahead of others, for the odd chance another investigative might counterclaim you.

This is very true and big part of my own reason to believe the claim. Why the hell would scum do it? It only gets a target on their back if anything. I still think it is possible to have this PR, because masons aren't that valuable unless a) they claim and b) one of them flips, and neighbours honestly don't mean shit for the game, right? Doesn't confirm anyone as town or scum. Plus doctor would need someone worth protecting, I guess. Re:Pro-town balance, Scum could have a doctor and/or traitor since I think they show as "no gun"? Assuming we have a 3-person scum team with one of those two roles, 2shot-gunsmith

could

catch two scum, but they'd need to have the luck to pick exactly the two scum with a gun + not be killed.

Re:VCA in 1628, I don't think the wave wagon is so incriminating because prior to that VC in 853 wave contributed absolutely

nothing

.

I can see the argument for dave/Havo being on the UCV lynch since it would be an easy way out. Srceen was on there too and even quickhammered and in addition to this being the D1 lynch I personally have trouble basing reads on this VC. I see the argument but that alone doesn't convince me, if you get that.

Agree that if Dave is scum, Tchill might not be since their recent interaction didn't feel like bussing to me. No necessary bussing at that.

HeWhoSwims · Post Post #1657 (isolation #48) » Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:38 am

In terms of lynching

Tchill/IAI > Dave/Wave > Havo > Dunn (> Beef)

HeWhoSwims · Post Post #1658 (isolation #49) » Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:32 am

Actually let's make that a numbered list. In order of when I would lynch them if you'd ask me right now.

1. Tchill - Has tunneled on 4 people, 3 of which are conftown and the other seems to be heavily townread. Like him this gameday as he's putting forward lynchpools but this could be saving his own ass, although that part will always be speculation

2. IAI - Been tunneling on the fact that Dunn's claim is fake which I don't really think, not now at least, and I don't feel it's really helping out that much.

3. Wave - Not many contributions and is inactive. (I mean I see why people won't sub in for a D3 game with 67 pages... lol)

4. Dave - Recent contributions haven't exactly been stellar. Apart from that, decent.

5. Havo - I'm liking him this gameday, but out of the ones below my top 4 he's the one I'd first see as scum

6. Dunn - Because I believe the claim for now. There is an off possbility of a fakeclaim but it would not really make sense to me.

7. Beef - Feel like he has an open mind and I see his posts as gamesolving where he can. And if any of the neighbours are scum, then it's wave over him. Beef, if you're scum you earn an award.

8. Toranaga - because lol

HeWhoSwims · Post Post #1666 (isolation #50) » Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:58 am

3 and 7*

The fact they're neighbours doesn't confirm anything. Well, it's likely they're not both scum, but if I had to clear one of them that is Beef.

HeWhoSwims · Post Post #1670 (isolation #51) » Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:04 am

In post 1665, Tchill13 wrote:From my understanding if you think beef is town then wave should pretty much be lock scum.

If this was directed to me; that's not what I mean. I'm not scumreading Wave because of him being neighbours with who is for me the top townie after Tora. All I think we can get from the neighbour pair is that at least one is town (2 scum being neighbours is pointless) which would be Beef. Some might think "oh wave is scum by default" in that case because "why else would there be neighbours?". Neighbours could just as easily be two townies no? My scum!wave read comes from his inactivity (which Beef says carries over to the neighbourhood), not from being paired with Beef.

@IAI No I haven't, this is my second game. Does that mean it's not possible? I don't think it does. I said it earlier; masons only helps the masons at the start, and only helps town after they flip, or that's at least what's happened in this game. Masons+Doc is powerful yes, since if they both survive they can keep a conftown in the game, but then you'd have to have the luck of neither being nightkilled (Doc isn't protected, or if both masons are alive she might protect the wrong mason). Plus Dunn is claiming a 2-shot role which I guess is reasonable for an additional PR.

HeWhoSwims · Post Post #1673 (isolation #52) » Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:19 am

I just think Beef's posts show he's keeping his mind open, he's pointing out potential misleading situations/WIFOM where others miss it, relativates the claim in 1576. That's some of the stuff I like(d) about Beef.

@Tchill, it didn't quite before, but I see what you're getting at. Scum however probably believes the mason claim so would they really want to keep both masons alive for too long? It would cause them to be stuck with 2 slots most people would believe to be conftown. And, when flipping srceen (or maybe moreso Maki) that could be incriminating you.

If you're town, then scum would want one of them to flip, I think
If you're scum, you wouldn't want one of them to flip because it would make you suspicious.

So seeing that you were actually pushing for one of them to flip... I might just have to turn around on you. If you're scum, it would make little sense for you to want to kill srceenplay. If you're scum that would be taking a big risk. Which is possible seeing the L-1 on day 1, but thinking about it your D3 has been hella solid.

Leaves the question why you would be tunneling hard on a Srceen/Tora/Maki scumteam, even if reading them as such is an honest mistake. The tunneling was a big reason of my suspicion.

HeWhoSwims · Post Post #1678 (isolation #53) » Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:16 am

In post 1675, Tchill13 wrote:I tunneled because I was convinced tora wouldn't play that way if he was town based on the things I had heard and seen from him I expected better but I forgot everyone is capable of a bad game. I also haven't played the best. Then I created a reasonable possible scenario that confirmed that bias.

Okay, that makes sense. This is my 2nd game here so I can't use meta stuff on anyone and I'm not aware of anyone else's meta. I think I saw Havo post a similar thing ("This is not the townie Tora I know" or something, iirc). While I still think you were way OTT with that tunnel, your D3 has been great, so perhaps it

was

a genuine mistake. I'm hesitant to let you free of all blame immediately, but that is something I just feel most of the time in games, but I'm keeping my vote off of you.

HeWhoSwims · Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:43 am

Welcome

Poor soul reading through all pages

HeWhoSwims · Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:18 am

In post 1686, Toranaga wrote:neighbours are literally NAI and mods in MS have done absolutely everything to fuck with the kind of assumption you're making

QFT

What exactly do you like so much about IAI...? I mean I think some of his recent posts are (on the edge of) tunnelling on Dunn which I don't consider that amazing.

HeWhoSwims · Post Post #1722 (isolation #56) » Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:28 am

In post 1708, Toranaga wrote:
In post 250, HeWhoSwims wrote:
In post 222, davesaz wrote:
In post 220, HeWhoSwims wrote:My mind says nulltown but my heart says null somehow because some stuff seems weird and I don't know with which of those two to go for now.
This hits me as a place where you wanted to say something else but then couldn't figure out how to say it. What you ended up with was mind and heart thinking roughly the same thing which seems odd to state them both. Trying to hide something?
What I'm meaning here is that I'm mostly reading Beef as scum but some stuff ticks me off. Mainly his sudden jump on Havo although I am leaning nullscum on Havo for the time being.
scumreading, but nulltown reading and also null? I'm failing to grasp HWS's thought on beef...

This must be a typo that I never noticed because I was null town on beef with my gut feeling conflicted. I was mostly reading beef as town, not scum (hence the "some stuff ticks me off" one sentence later).

HeWhoSwims · Post Post #1729 (isolation #57) » Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:09 am

Is 700 icky to you because Dave said the same thing earlier?

@Tora if IAI is town then why would he be so fixed on the Dunn claim being fake when multiple other players (seem to) believe it?

pedit: Seeing Tora is voting. More than fine with wave or dave but I'm holding off voting until we get some sound from Psyche.

HeWhoSwims · Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:43 pm

Wow, sorry IAI but I can't

smell

that you're an actuary. Yes, I know it's unlikely but I've said before why it could be true and aside from that fakeclaiming GS would be a dumb move for scum!Dunn. However his seemingly naked vote on dave is a bit of a worry although that would be really obvious if it's scum trying to get someone else lynched.

One thing that's sure is that if Dunn flips scum it clears you, and if you flip scum I'd say it clears Dunn because if this is bussing it's quite OTT.

Dunn's posts haven't been quite big contributions lately upon reading his ISO. It could be Dunn. But I'm not fully convinced. Curious for Psyche's posting.

HeWhoSwims · Post Post #1754 (isolation #59) » Thu Jan 04, 2018 7:30 am

Would scum want to me that obvious and quickhammer when it only gets them to a 5-2 split?

HeWhoSwims · Post Post #1820 (isolation #60) » Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:13 am

Having said that... I've voted for like 3 different people (Maki, Havo, Srceen D1, Srceen D2). I've not voted for 7 of the 8 other people here.

As for the flips you named some stuff, let me try and recap if I see anything else.

- IAI scum flip clears Dunn
- IAI town flip incriminates Dunn... I guess? Could be town being wrong but a town flip would make sure IAI's tunnel/suspicion are genuine if you get what I'm saying.
- Dunn scum flip clears IAI
- Dunn town flip incriminates IAI
- Dave scum flip would "mildly" clear Tchill and the other way around (judging from page 64-65 interaction)
- Psyche scum flip would clear Beef but he's mostly townread anyway.

@Beef where exactly do you get the Havo flip-consequences from? I can't quite see them. Also sharing the graph can never hurt I guess?

HeWhoSwims · Post Post #1822 (isolation #61) » Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:30 am

FWIW, looking through some recent posts in ISOs... Dunn's isn't exactly stellar. Last 10-15 posts are mostly one liners. Something slightly ticking me off is his response to Dave. His actual reaction which he quotes is 1 line again and when Dave asks him about not reacting on Day 1 he answers with a question followed by a vote for dave without a real stated ground right after Dave has a big post on suspecting Dunn. It doesn't help his townclaim credibility to me

HeWhoSwims · Post Post #1824 (isolation #62) » Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:01 am

By clearing himself do you mean Dunn claiming gunsmith?

I've turned around on my stance on you after talking about the D2 tunneling situation.

If you're town, then scum would want one of them to flip, I think
If you're scum, you wouldn't want one of them to flip because it would make you suspicious.

(you = Tchill)

If Tchill were scum it would make little to no sense to throw out those accusations because when one of Maki/Tora/Screen inevitably flips town it would cast a lot of suspicion upon you. I hadn't thought about the situation like that earlier. It could be you taking a risk but I'd lean towards you being town. But then Scum would want one of the 3 to flip while you said you thought scum would want it unresolved. What would everyone say is what scum would likely do here and so is there anything we can get out of the D2 votes?

HeWhoSwims · Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:01 am

Godfather would still show a gun right? Then it'd have to be traitor or doc.

HeWhoSwims · Post Post #1845 (isolation #64) » Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:26 pm

A serial killer... It could be possible but I wouldn't think so right now. I've never played with one, what would they want to do? My guess is scum is always going to be after obvtown - why would the SK do the same twice in a row if neither town not scum can win with SK alive?

Anyhow... It is possible scum role blocked them. And that a kill overlapped although I'm not 100% convinced. Today's flip or the night will probably clear it up.

I'd there is a SK I wouldn't know who it is though. Would a typical SK play similar to scum? I guess so?

HeWhoSwims · Post Post #1848 (isolation #65) » Sun Jan 07, 2018 2:39 am

Okay, thank you.

I'm guessing that it would be better for SK to try and get scum out (does scum win if they equal town+SK?) and then after whittling the scum down they'd focus on town? Not sure if that helps hunt a SK if there even is one to start with but it's just the train of thought I'm having.

Anyway as I said... I think if tonight's kill is a single one then there's no SK, wouldn't they have successfully made their own kill after 3 opportunities?

HeWhoSwims · Post Post #1852 (isolation #66) » Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:16 am

That's true but there's always the possibility he popped up quickly to turn in a kill... but that will always be speculation I guess. What do you think about the scenario in which we get a single kill coming night? Does that exclude SK or not yet?

HeWhoSwims · Post Post #1861 (isolation #67) » Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:26 am

Yea I see what you're saying Beef. If there is a SK it would not be good to enter Lylo with them. Even in the case where maf kills the SK (you say this ends in a town win), they could just not do it especially if Wave/Psyche is pointed to as the SK.

Not going through all the scenarios right now, but I'll believe you on that. And as Dave says above me, even if that slot isn't a SK it's still high on my (and others') suspicion lists. I'd be okay with lynching/hammering Psyche at this point. the only issue I see is that it doesn't provide that much info but if Psyche is SK or scum, that wouldn't be dramatic.

HeWhoSwims · Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:16 am

If IAI wants that answer desperately I don't see why we don't wait. Like give Psyche 24 or 36 hours. If he hasn't answered by then I don't see why we should even wait anymore.

HeWhoSwims · Post Post #1884 (isolation #69) » Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:08 am

It's been 30 hours... :/

HeWhoSwims · Post Post #1886 (isolation #70) » Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:24 am

If tomorrow morning he hasn't answered I will.

Tora, in case you die tonight which is likely I guess, is there anything you need to get off your chest or nah? (Another thing that we might want to wait a bit for)

HeWhoSwims · Post Post #1909 (isolation #71) » Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:04 am

Yeah town!Dunn is way more believable now.

Long story short this gets me to IAI/Dave being likely scum. For the last I'm doubting Tchill or Havo... mostly towards Havo, as I described my reasons for town!Tchill yesterday. I hold it for possible that Tchill is playing a risky game, see the entire D2 thing, but once again I just find myself thinking that scum!Tchill would be taking way too much a risk incriminating himself by tunneling and then making Srceen flip town.

thing is I can't find that much incriminating stuff for Havo except a seemingly firm scumread on Dunn. And lately I feel his posts are a mix between NAI/IIoA at times. But I'm just not fully convinced you know.

pedit: I don't consider Beef's post bad tbh. Still townreading there.

HeWhoSwims · Post Post #1935 (isolation #72) » Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:21 pm

Jesus wow, this all really is way too convenient. Both dunn's and dave's claims. Both haven't been exactly the most towny players either...

I'm really, really torn between those 2 since yes it's obviously one of those. I mean the only reason I had Dunn as town on my post earlier is because of the claim... but this changes it.

Dave's timing is reaaaally convenient but if he's town it also checks out (I think scum would rather kill the watcher than a mason, plus if they didn't then watcher would know they were to kill Tora). Dunn claimed when it wasn't that necessary but how the fuck do we differentiate between a genuine claim or a ballsy gambit (in both cases)?

HeWhoSwims · Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:39 pm

Confusing game is confusing.

Setup talk... if it's 3 scum then it could have been easy for scum to win. If one of the SK kills goes through scum would've won already (3-3). But there's also lots of possibilities for a 3 scumteam to lose (see: doc, SK killing scum). I'm no expert around here so I should probably let y'all sort it out.

However if scum is 2 people then Dave would probably be town. In this case we have a 5-2 split right now, scum!Dave fakeclaims, then gets a nightkill getting scum to 3-2 only to be lynched there as the person he framed would flip town.

That vote for Tchill. It's way too hard to assess properly. I think scum would love to frame town!Tchill by flipping a mason or Srceen. Ergo that vote could be scum!Dave putting the "let's frame Tchill" plan into motion. But it could just as easily be Dave trying to be scum to survive to Day 4. Urgh.

Re:Beef neighbourhood is NAI tbh and while bringing up the SK is eh, it's always possible it's present.

I'm headed out to work for now, hope I come back with a clearer head and perhaps having figured out what way to go :/

I should prob try and iso both dunn and dave later and try to assess what is scumplay and what is town-trying-to-be-scum.

HeWhoSwims · Post Post #1955 (isolation #74) » Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:40 am

Ugh Dave's claim makes sense though if it's true. Including the fact that he claimed VT yesterday. But how do we differentiate his earlier play between scum trying to get Dunn lynched or town trying to avoid the NK until night 3?

If we were to somehow know there are 2 scum then we should 100% lynch Dunn I feel, because either he flips scum or he flips town and we bathe in Dave's blood the next day. And again lately I consider Dunn's behaviour scumish or at least far from as conftown as someone claiming to be town should be. I lean a bit towards Dave's claim as of now.

Like would anyone have believed town had a 1 shot N3 watcher + 2 shot GS + 2 masons + doc....nope.

Yeah the point here is that there is a N3 Watcher OR a 2shot GS. So which one do you believe - Dunn, based on only the fact Dunn claimed earlier?

HeWhoSwims · Post Post #1959 (isolation #75) » Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:27 am

1+2 I can get behind.

As for 3 if Dave is in fact the watcher he could have been acting along to not have to reveal himself + survive the night.

HeWhoSwims · Post Post #1961 (isolation #76) » Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:39 am

Oh, sorry. I can see how it's weird but then again I too found Dunn's claim way more believable until Dave pretty much CC'd.

I'm still not quite free of the lingering suspicion I had of Dunn yesterday after Dave did a case on him followed by a naked vote from Dunn-->Dave. But I need to remind myself to look behind that.

HeWhoSwims · Post Post #2004 (isolation #77) » Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:02 am

I will. I'm mad busy tonight (for real, no weak excuse). I will try to make time in around an hour.

HeWhoSwims · Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:37 am

I don't need to change your opinion Havo, if you're the scum between us.

So first of all; I made a big mistake in doubting and siding with dave in the Dave v Dunn claim "war". I found Dunn's play before this to be way more scummy, and Dave's play to me fit in with a town PR trying to find the space between not being lynched and not being nightkilled. I was wrong, but being wrong doesn't make me scum. I'm sure whoever was scum at this lylo would've loved to try and lock in a Dave-Beef-HWS scumteam. It'd essentially win them the game.

And I've been blinded by first Srceenplay, then Dunn as possible scum. I'll acknowledge that, it sucks but town makes mistakes. And while I was always a bit suspicous of Dave, which I also have acknowledged, I was drawn away by other stuff. Such as Dunn's post that I mentioned in 1822.

Now, both me and Havo didn't vote Dave prior to the claim. But if we look at Havo, I find 10 votes prior to his Dave vote after the claim. He gets called out "unvote if you're town", he unvotes, and then puts it back again after the wagon gains traction plus after I give my thoughts which are sided with Dave. I have cast 4 votes on the other hand. And when he finally gets around to voting dave, he barely talks about anything, just about how the claim sucks; not something that a scum!dave flip would reveal or why Dunn is explicitly town here.

Now, if I look at the interactions between Beef, an under the radar scum player, and Havo. First, Havo replies weakly to some quotes including beef, then does some early distancing vote I think in 253 without even really stating a clear reason. Then there's also the town lean without any reason stated neither in his read list 1790 or ever before. Aside from this, barely any interaction is Havo's ISO. Going through Beef's iso, 154 seems it could be distancing. Then he reads Havo as "possible scum" but says it could also be PR crumbing in the same sentence. I get it but it's a little eh. Then again 763 lists Havo as a scumread immediately followed by "I need stronger scumreads". And some more times Havo is mentioned, the post also includes stronger arguments for others. Could this be scum saying "Hey, I suspected this guy earlier?"

Before you come at me - yes, I too have posted the same about Dave sometimes, but so has Havo.

About Beefs post once Dave was lynched, we can argue endlessly about it; but it is scum trying to cast suspicion on me, in such an obvious way that it's untrueness will be doubted and that the lynch will therefore be directed to me.

Another thing about Beef is that he made a pretty solid case for scum!me with the votes and all. This was the Psyche lynch day ergo a 6-3 or 5-3-1 split from scum!Beef's perspective. Beef himself also pointed out that getting to lylo with a SK was risky business. If Beef was reasoning from the 6-3 split, why would he make such a case and bring his team to 5-2 without real benefit? If he's reasoning from the 5-3-1 split, why would he try to bus or even lynch a partner when lynching a townie or perhaps even the SK is crucial to his game and potentially winning?

And I think I've put a lot of effort into either scumhunting or trying to contribute as much as time allows me to. Why would scum me put literal hours into 689 and the posts following it? Why would he read Joda's iso intensively which both incriminates Dave and Beef, albeit slightly? Why would he in 1673 make a total 180 on Tchill who has just been incriminated because of the mason flip, while a 180 wouldn't exactly be unsuspicious?

then finally, Havo was a scumread/scumlean on Dunn seemingly but then jumped to vote dave all of a sudden. Good move, seeing my doubt in the lylo situation. I can also see him buddying up to Tora at points.

HeWhoSwims · Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:37 am

Oh oops.

In case it wasn't clear: VOTE: Havo

HeWhoSwims · Post Post #2022 (isolation #80) » Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:38 am

First of all Havo - is a typo or simple mistake like the one you highlighted really AI? The scenario in which you're the scum between us is hypothetical, and if it's the case which it is, then I don't need to change your opinion. The fact that this is an argument against me is telling.

Yes, I have cast like 4 votes throughout the game. I'll admit it might be a flaw of mine. But it's my playstyle, I don't like to put votes anywhere unless I'm at least 90% sure of something. Maybe it's a bad thing and I'm not open enough to voting. And I've even defended flipping votes as a sign of keeping an open mind at times, high chances it was in this thread. And, feel free to take a look at Newbie 1839: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=74166 . I was a VT there also. I've cast

one vote

throughout the game

in RVS

, yet I was town and pretty much caught the scum in Lylo if not for my fellow townie mislynching me through a great scummie. So, is my voting behaviour AI? I don't think I need to give my answer.

As for the Beef vote. I live near Amsterdam, or in the EST +6 timezone. Derpy started the day at 02.13 my time and you hammered at 4.43. For one, I couldn't have been present, I value my sleep! And second - even if I were scum, would I really vote for anyone other than Beef? Seriously? You're just using this to further expand the move at Dave's lynch in which you locked me in as part of a scumteam. Similarly, I was present during the day of Dave's lynch. I've talked about it enough; I was torn between the two wagons, since both claims were equally believable/unbelievable, and Dunn's naked vote on Dave the day before right after Dave did a case on Dunn was bugging me. Which, by the way, is an issue it seems no one has brought up. At all.

Havo, where am I bending over backwards to save Dave? I'm literally torn between wagons. Giving my thoughts, trying to figure out the game for myself, or get opinions from others to help me figure the situation out.

I realise I've been too positive on Dave. I realise I've been a huge advocate of town!Beef. But they were genuine. They were honest mistakes. I barely remember anyone honestly suspecting Beef before he started talking about a possible SK. And that SK was something I couldn't quite figure out; I was semi-convinced it wasn't there since we had one nightkill both nights. Does being wrong about this make me scum? I wouldn't say it makes anyone scum. In fact, if scum is suspecting (or knows) that there is a SK, why wouldn't they want to lynch the SK since the SK would probably want to scumhunt during the daytime?

IAI, as for your questions. The first one about the SK; I think you misunderstood me. I was talking to someone about how the game could've easily gone quicker if the SK and scum had both caused multiple nightkills. There was only one nightkill for both nights. I was assuming both of the night kills were scum, because Joda and Maki were obvtown and SK would probably be better off trying to end the scum.

As for your innocence. For one I like the fact you question stuff. That is something I see as protown especially if the discussion is aimed towards multiple participants. Your question towards Psyche stands out while others wanted the hammer to happen asap. 1731 stands out as well. I don't see any reason for scum!IAI to do stuff like this. If Dunn were scum, why would scum!IAI go out of their way this much, literally scream through the thread that their partner is lying while it gets scum to a 5-2 (if scum kills the SK) or 4-2-1 (VT night kill/assuming no SK kill) split in case Dunn is lynched? And why would they leave the serial killer alive if SK would be better off killing scum? And if Dunn were town, why would scum!IAI make this big a point of their claim, only to have Dunn flip town inevitably? And why would scum!IAI be doubtful and holding back at the thought of a Serial Killer if once again, the Serial Killer probably wants to lynch/kill scum to achieve their WC?

HeWhoSwims · Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:21 am

I only mentioned you as possible scum in 1909. This was after PoE'ing Dunn (still believed the claim there), Tchill, Beef. And obviously Beef was scum, but he had me completely. That's why you were included in my scum team there. After Dave's flip, Dunn was the NK, and I realised I had to re-evaluate my reads, and came back to your scream post. Which was a big part in reading you town. And this got me to read your (and Havo's) iso more this day which led me to the rest of my townreads.

HeWhoSwims · Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:25 am

I found the two to be interchangable. As I said it was partly PoE, the other part was retaining the scumlean I had earlier, as I hadn't focused on your accusation to Dunn as more than "if one flips town/scum then the other is of the other alignment, probably".

HeWhoSwims · Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:41 am

Because as I've mentioned I'm really hesitant in voting and there was a lot of talk about Psyche also, who was on the same level of suspicion as Dave for me.

HeWhoSwims · Post Post #2030 (isolation #84) » Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:36 am

Yes.

Regardless of the outcome, great game everyone. It's been a pleasure! See y'all in another one

HeWhoSwims · Post Post #2032 (isolation #85) » Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:30 am

Bad move!

HeWhoSwims · Post Post #2033 (isolation #86) » Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:31 am

For my game, that is.

Congrats town! Well done everyone!

HeWhoSwims · Post Post #2034 (isolation #87) » Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:31 am

Can't wait for the dead thread.

Also IAI... Dave and me spent nearly the entire game thinking you were our traitor

HeWhoSwims · Post Post #2037 (isolation #88) » Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:34 am

In post 1979, Beefster wrote:Damn. I was hoping that might work. I don't think there is any recovering from this. Well played everyone.

I mean for me personally this was the moment I found out. I literally thought we had it in the bag when Beef voted Dunn because you, the traitor would hop onto the wagon. Then you went against Dave all of a sudden... And even then I wasn't sure of who the traitor was since all of my townreads on Beef were genuine.

HeWhoSwims · Post Post #2040 (isolation #89) » Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:35 am

Before I forget, Derpy: Thanks for the game! It's been great!

HeWhoSwims · Post Post #2041 (isolation #90) » Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:35 am

Also no, we couldn't recruit.

HeWhoSwims · Post Post #2048 (isolation #91) » Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:40 am

I must say loved playing with you too Tora!

Although your posts I had to read through for my huge catch-up D1 were hell lol. I was semi-sad I (we) had to NK you because you were really into the game it seemed.

HeWhoSwims · Post Post #2051 (isolation #92) » Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:45 am

You and tchill were just so in the game, highest post counts without competition... y'all must have 1/3rd of the posts here between you