Mini 1972 - Friendship is Magic - Game over

[Jodaxq]

Good Grief. Can we just Lynch scum Screen already?

Someone is a little eager. You really want a night phase don't you?

This kind of looks like you're trying too hard.

[Jodaxq]

Yeah havo is definitely newb scum. I'm glad we've got a game full of Sherlocks here. One of beef, odd or screen needs to be lynched. Could Lynch the guy that refuses to use vote tags but I was down for a Lynch on anyone other than me on page 2.

This feels pretty genuine to me. Tchill has been weird this game for sure, but I am leaning town.

[Jodaxq]

*gasp* a pressure vote. I'm

sooo

scared. Good luck with that.

The fact you responded to it at all means that it worked. I also don't like your response very much.

[Jodaxq]

First of all, I don't like how you just reversed the question, as it shows unwillingness to reason. Scum tell? Not on its own, but given your other responses...

I will answer you anyway because I'm nice.

Page 2 hammers are bad because information is good to have: the more of it the better. Longer day == more time for scum to slip up. Shorter day == less time for scum to slip up, sooner night, day 2 becomes a game of catching up. There is a point where it becomes stalling, but that point is not on page 2.

Of course there are some tradeoffs: power roles have more time to be outed which paints nice targets on their backs with longer days, whereas shorter days give cops/trackers/whatever an earlier investigation (meanwhile, doctors/roleblockers/similar stand to benefit from longer days). I believe that the tradeoffs on long early days are worth it and I don't think it's wise to bank on there being roles we aren't even sure exist in the setup.

No, because what we have to gain from the day is the interactions throughout the day, not the end result. Sure, it sucks we lynched a townie, but in the process of reaching even a false conclusion, we'll have more information to go on than if we lynched quickly.

Fast fail does not apply to this scenario.

I would like to see your point of view and reasoning, not just additional questions. Don't think my responses absolve you of the responsibility to answer my questions.

These posts feel towny. Although it is slightly concerning that your most towny feeling posts have to do with theory

[Jodaxq]

I'm a little concerned about how reluctant Davesaz seems to be about contributing. Most of his posts are just asking everyone else what they think. Maki Harukawa also seems to be a little guarded.

[I Am Innocent]

While you're here, what is ur read on Dave? Beef, UCV? I'll let you pass on Dunn since he hasn't posted past page 1.

Dave nada
Uc I’m don’t want to be quick to judge but I’m feeling a tiny bit off about them. They have things going on irl so give them a pass for now.
Beef I feel might be playing up the@ I have played in a long time”.
Nothing definitive yet.


On the part about Odd.
It wasn’t about me it’s about you.
Saying you don’t scum read someone but you don’t care if them get offed is a little to indifferent.

What you call indifferent I call null

I don't think I like this post very much. So you don't care if your null reads get lynched? Doesn't that... not make them null?

Do I think all the scum (likely 3 in a game this size) are in my list of 4 scum reads by page 6. I’m good but not usually not that good.

No my comment was made to accomplish a few things
1) comment on the larger wagons
2) show who my null reads are (and by POE who I’m leaning town on)

So to directly answer your question, no they are still null reads and no I only defend town reads D1. Get me to LyLo and I’ll be more concerned with a null read on the chopping block over my scum read. Make sense?

[I Am Innocent]

First of all, I don't like how you just reversed the question, as it shows unwillingness to reason. Scum tell? Not on its own, but given your other responses...

I will answer you anyway because I'm nice.

Page 2 hammers are bad because information is good to have: the more of it the better. Longer day == more time for scum to slip up. Shorter day == less time for scum to slip up, sooner night, day 2 becomes a game of catching up. There is a point where it becomes stalling, but that point is not on page 2.

Of course there are some tradeoffs: power roles have more time to be outed which paints nice targets on their backs with longer days, whereas shorter days give cops/trackers/whatever an earlier investigation (meanwhile, doctors/roleblockers/similar stand to benefit from longer days). I believe that the tradeoffs on long early days are worth it and I don't think it's wise to bank on there being roles we aren't even sure exist in the setup.

No, because what we have to gain from the day is the interactions throughout the day, not the end result. Sure, it sucks we lynched a townie, but in the process of reaching even a false conclusion, we'll have more information to go on than if we lynched quickly.

Fast fail does not apply to this scenario.

I would like to see your point of view and reasoning, not just additional questions. Don't think my responses absolve you of the responsibility to answer my questions.

These posts feel towny. Although it is slightly concerning that your most towny feeling posts have to do with theory

Be careful giving town reads for Information Instead Of Analysis type posts. I think your instincts are right on with most of your reads. One of my stronger town reads.

[HeWhoSwims]

Between Tchill and Beef I'm moreso leaning towards Beef being scum. Sure some of Tchill's behavior is a bit eh and could be seen as not pro-town. Iso-ing him there are a lot of posts with little content where it gets to the point that if Tchill were actually scum, he would've made it way obvious. Yes, WIFOM is a thing, but I'd personally think that if scum would act like this it would be way too big a risk. And, while some may see Tchill's actions as weird/scum it is exactly that that enables discussion --> more content --> more reads.

Beef on the other hand also has some shady stuff, but it seems to me that in a few posts he'd rather focus on who's getting lynched than on extracting reads which... sort of contradicts his point about not quickhammering. As Jodaxq said in 175 the whole Havo thing is sort of coming across as tryhard. Shady at points, but I'm unsure on Beef for now. We have a lot of time left though.

[HeWhoSwims]

I'm a little concerned about how reluctant Davesaz seems to be about contributing. Most of his posts are just asking everyone else what they think. Maki Harukawa also seems to be a little guarded.

I can definitely see this, their content is empty content if you get what I'm saying. One thing that separates Dave from Maki is that I feel Dave's post at the very least allow for a bit discussion, albeit it is others discussing while he watches on from the sideline (why?). It's a small thing but it's something I'm not seeing as much in Maki's posts.

[davesaz]

Is it better to ask people questions aimed at finding out the reason behind their posting, or assume what their reason was?

[davesaz]

Wavemode asked Maki how long she's been playing forum mafia, apparently having failed to notice a post saying she's an alt of a pretty experienced player, and tried to brush off questions about that.
I don't see casting shade on someone based on lack of experience to be a very townie thing to do.

[davesaz]

I'm a little concerned about how reluctant Davesaz seems to be about contributing. Most of his posts are just asking everyone else what they think. Maki Harukawa also seems to be a little guarded.

Thanks for the reply in 122. Was the point you made about oddmusic sufficient for a read? What do you think about his other posts? (I haven't looked but probably will so I can compare what I get from it to your answer). And see my post a couple back.

[Beefster]

davesaz, Dunnstral, and Innocent have been awfully quiet... Just sayin'.

I noticed you left off wavemode. Probably just an oversight?

No. He posted a couple times recently from that point. I mean more than just the chainsaw he posted on the first page.

Wavemode's only post before the chainsaw was a vote on Srceenplay with no other words. So... what did you mean by this?

The posts after were a little better. Though in retrospect, he could have done better to explain his list and why he thought each player belonged there. I'm probably subconciously biased due to him putting me in the green.

[Beefster]

Do I think all the scum (likely 3 in a game this size) are in my list of 4 scum reads by page 6. I’m good but not usually not that good.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but statistically speaking, any 4 player random sample from a 13 player game is likely to contain at least one scum.

My reads so far:
Jodaxq: likely town. Her reasoning that has gotten to the wagon on me makes plenty of sense, even if it doesn't favor me.
Tchill: likely scum. His responses, unwillingness to answer questions directly, and generally substanceless posts do not add up to pro-town behavior.
Havo: possible scum. He hasn't said much, but what he has said indicates he just wants a night phase. Yes, this might be reaching and could potentially indicate some other PR.
Maki: leaning scum. Her posts and reasoning are a bit sparse.
oddmusic: leaning town. First post with analysis was reaching, but no more than would be expected early game.
wavemode: null tell. I really have no idea what to make of him. Chainsaws and lists don't seem quite right, but nothing really screams anti-town to me.
davesaz: null tell. I see Jodaxq's point about him not really having his own opinion. Not sure where to go with that.
HeWhoSwims: leaning town. On the quiet side, but does seem to have pro-town intentions.
Innocent: very slightly leaning scum. Emphasis on very. Really more of a null tell.
srceenplay: leaning town. Responded to pressure and RVS in a town way. Not a whole lot else to go on.
UC Voyager: null. Nothing to go on really.
Dunnstral: null. haven't seen him post in a while.
Beef: I'm biased. I won't read myself. I can see why I look scummy though.

Crap. I gotta go to work.

[davesaz]

^ I don’t like this reaction to being wagonned early. If screenplay were town I would expect more confusion than...annoyance I guess.

And no screen we don’t have enough to lynch you. But for an early wagon out of the random stages making 2 entirely contentless posts is a good start

Not really a fan of this post. His reaction didn't seem out of the ordinary at all.

VOTE: Havo
Ducked both my questions, as far as I can tell.

[Jodaxq]

While you're here, what is ur read on Dave? Beef, UCV? I'll let you pass on Dunn since he hasn't posted past page 1.

Dave nada
Uc I’m don’t want to be quick to judge but I’m feeling a tiny bit off about them. They have things going on irl so give them a pass for now.
Beef I feel might be playing up the@ I have played in a long time”.
Nothing definitive yet.


On the part about Odd.
It wasn’t about me it’s about you.
Saying you don’t scum read someone but you don’t care if them get offed is a little to indifferent.

What you call indifferent I call null

I don't think I like this post very much. So you don't care if your null reads get lynched? Doesn't that... not make them null?

Do I think all the scum (likely 3 in a game this size) are in my list of 4 scum reads by page 6. I’m good but not usually not that good.

No my comment was made to accomplish a few things
1) comment on the larger wagons
2) show who my null reads are (and by POE who I’m leaning town on)

So to directly answer your question, no they are still null reads and no I only defend town reads D1. Get me to LyLo and I’ll be more concerned with a null read on the chopping block over my scum read. Make sense?

Yes that actually does make sense.

[Jodaxq]

Is it better to ask people questions aimed at finding out the reason behind their posting, or assume what their reason was?

No this is true, but I feel like you could have done this while also being more proactive in your reads.

[Jodaxq]

I'm a little concerned about how reluctant Davesaz seems to be about contributing. Most of his posts are just asking everyone else what they think. Maki Harukawa also seems to be a little guarded.

Thanks for the reply in 122. Was the point you made about oddmusic sufficient for a read? What do you think about his other posts? (I haven't looked but probably will so I can compare what I get from it to your answer). And see my post a couple back.

I'd like to see more from oddmusic. His post about Beef and I looking "very town" sticks out like others have noticed. I don't like his initial reaction to Srceenplay's reaction either. I'd probably say lean scum, but it's hard to tell with his lack of content.

[Jodaxq]

davesaz, Dunnstral, and Innocent have been awfully quiet... Just sayin'.

I noticed you left off wavemode. Probably just an oversight?

No. He posted a couple times recently from that point. I mean more than just the chainsaw he posted on the first page.

Wavemode's only post before the chainsaw was a vote on Srceenplay with no other words. So... what did you mean by this?

The posts after were a little better. Though in retrospect, he could have done better to explain his list and why he thought each player belonged there. I'm probably subconciously biased due to him putting me in the green.

Interesting that you've said multiple times now that you might be biased towards people who town read you.

[Jodaxq]

^ I don’t like this reaction to being wagonned early. If screenplay were town I would expect more confusion than...annoyance I guess.

And no screen we don’t have enough to lynch you. But for an early wagon out of the random stages making 2 entirely contentless posts is a good start

Not really a fan of this post. His reaction didn't seem out of the ordinary at all.

VOTE: Havo
Ducked both my questions, as far as I can tell.

Did you quote the wrong post?

[davesaz]

The one time I think I don't need to preview.
Checked it for multiquote anticipating there being another to quote it with, and then changed my mind.

[Maki Harukawa]

I don't think scum would so blatantly dodge questions but I don't see why town! wave would try to discredit my read by looking at my player experience that was clearly what he was looking for that's not trying to figure out a slot it's shade

[Srceenplay]

Maki, thoughts on Havo?

[Maki Harukawa]

Has made a few decent posts and a few I dislike waiting for more from him before I give a solid read.

[davesaz]

Please pick a good one and explain why it's good.