Mini Normal 1988 (Endgame)

[Roy Tagliaferro]

VOTE: Luca Blight

There is only room for one person with a space in their username, and Nero won the coin flip.

[Roy Tagliaferro]

Well, yes.

[Roy Tagliaferro]

Oh I was trying to say that between Luca and Nero, Nero won the coin flip earning Luca my vote

Now as for Nero... we can keep him for now no? You don't win the battle I'm fighting in just one day.

[Roy Tagliaferro]

Either way here's to hoping we can start soon because deadline is shorter than usually (7 days y'all!)

And good luck to all, yada yada.

[Roy Tagliaferro]

Pretty much sometimes. Wouldn't know where to start though.

[Roy Tagliaferro]

Okay, tbh I'm not sure of my stance on lurker lynches. They're not giving you info but the question is whether this is more harmful on D1 or at a later time if you see what I'm saying

[Roy Tagliaferro]

Yeah but stuff needs to get going since the deadline feels like it's gonna be in 2 hours.

VOTE: Bujaber let's see what happens.

[Roy Tagliaferro]

I'll elaborate on my perceived eagerness. It had a goal, especially my vote but I'll elaborate once I had more time.

(as for the deadline I'm used to 14 days and others might be, too)

[Roy Tagliaferro]

Oh and what we I got with my plan now is not quite yet what I was hoping to see but it's sufficient, yaknow

[Roy Tagliaferro]

Lol mozamis the point was I should be the only one left with a space

Lalendra and Nero seem good so far but it's perhaps too early to give that a solid town read. Shouldn't even be that rare for scum to start out real helpful and all that.

Luca has 2 posts only towards Lalendra which I don't quite like, moz vote didn't seem to be RVS.

Yea I'm looking at something, sort of an assumption but I feel like it's beneficial to watch that for some more time. Plus if I call it out then scum won't dirty their hands in that area for the rest of the game.

[Roy Tagliaferro]

Woops. Looked at 74 which seemed like light suspicion but I'm tired and reading is hard.

[Roy Tagliaferro]

Yeah I'm an alt. It should say in my signature but I forget turning it on.

Bujaber what is there to over simplify. I went into the game wanting to do this little investigation before any accusations or townread came my way. And I told it because I was called eager which is because I wanted everyone to talk so I could get what I was hoping for.

Also Nero about the reads: I'm just really careful with giving out strong reads like 48h into the game.

Seph, Nero, moz Lalendra townlean. Prism has a solid post catching up but I don't agree with scum!seph

[Roy Tagliaferro]

Bujaber what exactly is your suspicion on Lalendra based on? Reads based on a strong scum assumption this early are crap and honestly not worth anything before a flip. Let's keep the teamhunting for when we have a flip (pref. scum)

123 could be lamist but it could also be not so yeah let's not have this be too big of an argument tbh. Even town says stupid crap sometimes.

Reading back moz has one of the bigger postcounts but it's not quite rich in contributions.

VOTE: Moz

[Roy Tagliaferro]

Wasn't trying to sweep it under the rug as much, but sliphunting is crappy. I don't feel it is a valid argument for a lynch alone. What separates a scumslip from a townie failing to grasp the right words to say something?

[Roy Tagliaferro]

:facepalm:

I noted it because I wasn't liking the fact that it was called LAMIST without any further talk.

More important stuff would be just progressing in the game and all that and not having to resort to slips.

[Roy Tagliaferro]

I can reveal my stuff now; I was trying to watch some early wagon dynamics and my vote on Moz was to try and see if anyone would bite and vote moz (negative result) so Moz, nothing to do with our previous game and it's great you're in here

Trying to come up with some time to talk but not for a lil while tonight.

[Roy Tagliaferro]

I voted Bu as a literal sheeping vote, and Leeoon did the same. I can't see why the same couldn't have happened for Moz, I even gave an (admittedly weak) argument.

Having said so;

Preposition: The middle votes on an early wagon are scum-like

This is something I saw float around and wanted to try out. Surely, couldn't mean anything, but it's what I wanted to try out this game. The early votes are people trying to start a wagon for one reason or another, ergo, they take the spotlight. Hammer doesn't happen this early, but even if, scum hammering the D1 mislynch would bring a lot of attention. So, if any scum want to be on an early wagon possibly headed for mislynch, then why not in the middle?

I wanted to keep this, because now that I'm talking about it, arguments around this are WIFOM.

Let's take a look at some of the third/fourth votes on wagons.

First case: Leeoon, 46. Really empty vote on Bu. "Going to agree with this" is a bit eh. Scum could want to hop onto such a wagon if it's there without valid reason anyway.

Case two: Seph, 54 on Leeoon. Also an empty vote, sorta kinda following Nero I guess.

Case 3: TIAM, 102 on TGP. Lurker vote transforming into a small wagon.

Case 4: Luca on Leeoon, 183 but this one is actually "re-igniting" an older wagon.

So, let me know what you think. Could be shit reasoning in y'all's opinion, if so feel free to ignore but hey, I tried, right?

Out of these 4 I think Leeoon is the most suspicious right now for the vote and for lack of great content, followed by Luca/TIAM then Sephiroth.

[Roy Tagliaferro]

I've made it clear that I was doing some sort of gambit, fully aware it might not work and that talking about wagons now would be WIFOM. But, I wanted to try it out, and it might just help, no?

"Also anybody who's townreading lalendra is wrong imo" is very rich coming from someone jumping on others because of weak cases. A quick ctrl+F of your iso shows you voted for her in 55 without any real reason, although it's implied it is because of 51. After this you push LALENDRA IS SCUM!!! without there ever being a real argument in your posts. Explain! I'll sit and listen.

@Luca your Lalendra vote was the start of a wagon. I was looking at middle votes (votes 3-5)

UNVOTE:

[Roy Tagliaferro]

214 is a good post imo.

All my reasoning etc was from that assumption that middle votes are bad, something I wanted to try out. I didn't include early votes in this wagon as starting a wagon either gets you heat in case of a mislynch, or contributes to the game advancing, which scum could certainly do without. Of course, that's guessing work always, but I thought it was a fair assumption to make, even if only to generate more discussion.

TIAM is silent and UTR indeed; not sure I'm yet so sold on scum!TIAM however.

Yeah, believing the gambit was my intention or not will always be up to the rest of you; mentioning it might be seen as weird or useless but I then felt it was no harm throwing it out there, explaining my sheep vote on Bu as well.

Luca this page feels town. Good points.

Bujaber in 229 is a hot mess and I can see the selfvote gambit come from nervous scum before upset town. What's the town motivation, honestly?

And I'm a wildcard? I literally mentioned Luca in my gambit post and I think earlier I called at him for lack of content.

And if you're really not convinced then I'll happily VOTE: Bujaber for the above reasons; if you're town, why are you tunneling and taking false credit for reads? (Lal scum without reasons / taking over LB's reads)

[Roy Tagliaferro]

...bad post imo. Enough to comment on for you.

Anywho UNVOTE:

The thing is, Bujaber is out in the open now regarding his position in the game. Leeoon isn't (and has not had a good post so far) nor is TIAM. What about those? Let's assume all 3 are scum / are so heavily scumread they're the next three lynches regardless, would it be better (generally) to lynch the open one or the low-info ones first? I can't quite wrap my mind around it. I'd lean towards keeping the low info lynch and try to get info out of them but what if they just slam shut? If you leave the open player around then they won't be able to really do an 180 on their reads without being noticed but you're not gaining anything from a lynch.

Also, Bu is supposed to be at L-2 now!

[Roy Tagliaferro]

if you're town, why are you tunneling

Did you seriously ask this?
Town tunnel all the time. Hell on my other accounts I famous for it

Evidently, I did. I mean, what's the town value of tunneling, as opposed to keeping an open mind and weighing out options?

Yeah, my "announcement" might've been a bit weird but I was just wanting to try something out and throw it out here. Discussion, y'all! Yay! Gamesolving!

Lynch pool for now would be Leeoon, Bu, TIAM, TGP. Townleans Seph, Luca, Chumba, Lalendra. Rest is MOTR.

[Roy Tagliaferro]

@Chumba I can see that argument but there's always the possibility of having a tunnel on a townie. And in that case if you stay in the tunnel it's not helpful to the town I'd guess (sure you might get info but a scum lynch would be better, no?).

Re:alt, HWS is my main and this is the only alt... so my join date is early December. About the thing I put aside as rather irrelevant... I'm still firm in my assumption that slips alone do not warrant a lynch. Even town is stupid and might choose the wrong words and if that results in a lynch then you 1) lose a townie and 2) possibly get through the day with barely any developments (if everyone jumps on a slip).

Luca, why so set on TIAM when Leeoon is doing the same? Also can we prod Leeooon?

Chumba v Luca seems like TvT because those two are pretty much my top two townreads at the moment or at least they're close to being so. I'm seeing Luca's argument though that Chumba is not mentioning TIAM who is inactive right now. His LAMIST argument can go either way honestly.

Bujaber still hasn't explained his Lalendra scumlean.

The thing is, Bujaber is out in the open now regarding his position in the game. Leeoon isn't (and has not had a good post so far) nor is TIAM. What about those? Let's assume all 3 are scum / are so heavily scumread they're the next three lynches regardless, would it be better (generally) to lynch the open one or the low-info ones first? I can't quite wrap my mind around it. I'd lean towards keeping the low info lynch and try to get info out of them but what if they just slam shut? If you leave the open player around then they won't be able to really do an 180 on their reads without being noticed but you're not gaining anything from a lynch.

(post 240)

Can we discuss the above? My lynch pool would be Bu, TIAM, Leeoon and maybe Archwing (low content lately but has barely been mentioned).

[Roy Tagliaferro]

Truly a great post. Why are you not sharing thoughts on everything that has happened since your last post?

[Roy Tagliaferro]

Aside from maybe 120 I really don't seem to grasp your explanation. Care to quote it?

[Roy Tagliaferro]

Still not a big fan of Bu or Leeoon. Bu, thanks for your post - I do think you could do with stronger reasons, but okay, it explains stuff. I don't think her comment about being a good lynch is necessarily a contra town claim - perhaps if she's being a liability to the town, lynching her clears that up, maybe even uncovers some connections and all the like.

I'll settle for TIAM who's still also in my lynch pool. Lurking isn't helping and not helping town = bad. We need to get the votes in though before we have a no lynch. VOTE: TIAM

[Roy Tagliaferro]

This post has been removed by the game moderator.

[Roy Tagliaferro]

Yay catch upping

also iirc luca was 1v1-ing chumba pretty hard while pushing the tiam lynch. think maybe theres something to go on there.

I seriously doubt scum Chumba would want to make that kill. But that'll forever be WIFOM. Also, reasons aside from "pinging"?

Prism seems good coming right off night 1. Although I'm not really seeing the Chumba scum reasoning. Luca was just as much a townlean for like the entire game.

Man you have to be scum with the bullshit you are shoveling.

That is not a good argument, it borders on OMGUS and it's not contributing. Town can be wrong in their reads.

379/380 had absolutely nothing to do with what I’d do if Tiam flipped town

Of course they aren't, but scum!Chumba certainly wouldn't mind using those exact posts to gain towncred or push Prism...

So earlier you said you didn't want to lynch TIAM. Then you declare intent. Pinged me.

That's a nice catch. Vague.

354 makes sense to me though. I don't like those people going "Yeah you're scum anyways, I said so". Because scum isn't gonna admit it, and if said player is town and defends themselves then in most cases I feel the attacker will just go "yeah you're still scum" because they are tunneling. Attackers in this case barely give their target a chance to do anything. Plus the reactions to the VT claim are crap. If we get a VT claim the claimer is scum, if they claim PR then people might be upset about a PR landing themselves at L1...

The following quoted posts by Archwing do kind of seem like they could be building towncred.

Learn what 1v1 is and come back scum boy.

Can you like not do this and make sure every post contributes?

Archwing, elaborate on deleting the part of Luca's quote that actually pleads for Chuba? I mean, deleting that and pushing Chumba hard is very scummy and if you're not scum why the actual fuck would you do it?

Not a big fan of the Seph case. Townread there. Arguments aren't too strong, imo.

Chumba, why don't you throw out some arguments against me if you're so sure I'm scum? Only stuff I can find is either based on the "I have a plan" stint (k, valid) and the Bu vote. I think multiple people were suspicious of Bujaber yesterday and I think up until the wagon started to be a thing he was being scumfuck with his reads-without-reasons and the self vote.

Arch and Chumba both being suspicious at this point. Arch moreso combined with the previous day.

If you think it is {me, Prism, Roy} does it make sense for any one of us to kill Luca..?

It would make sense for any scum to kill Luca, one of the most townie players. Doubt there's real info there.

How is saying you're scummy an ad hom argument...? It's a statement, a read...

490 is a good train of thought.

Moz... what are your arguments for Archwing town? What do you think of the stuff I talked about in this post so far?

Not liking the Seph push without at least addressing some of the arguments for it.

530 reeks of OMGUS to the point where it's probably too much. I am townleaning Moz for now though. Every post has content, be it right or wrong.

he just settles for tiam. Settling imo implies he was pushing somebody else first and that wasn't happening.

The only person I was -remotely- pushing was Bu, and he had a good post prior to my vote, and lurking isn't helping town at all imo, which I think I'd been clear on. If we gotta lynch someone, I'd rather have it be a silent, lurky person over someone who's gonna post in the morning.

Also lol oops sorry mod for that other-game-talk

VOTE: Archwing

Reasons later

You tried.

Well that's it for now. See ya.

Gonna place my vote on VOTE: Archwing for now.

[Roy Tagliaferro]

Lmfao that's probably as far as my playing around with alts is going. Not really seeing the point of it if I keep with my playstyle and slip it lol.

No, I don't. I was trying my "middle votes" thingy as a way to get the game rolling, it's something I wanted to try out, and wanted to see if anyone was biting my bait before talking about those middle votes.

[Roy Tagliaferro]

Thanks for the reply Archwing. I too obviously leave out irrelevant parts of quotes while addressing someone specifically but I just felt this bit was too important to leave out, it was relevant content about the person you were addressing; seemed a bit manipulation-ish to leave it out.

Welcome Mulch

Mulch can you elaborate on your townlean on Bu? Esp. the events surrounding 229 because that self vote was unnecessary and it seemed some too defensive.

He who swims tends to be a mislynch often yes? Has he been up for a lynch yet?

I've only completed one game as town in which I did get mislynched yes.

Don't see why moz-->TIAM vote is bad but I can endorse the sentiment that moz' reads could be some more explained at times.

[Roy Tagliaferro]

Not quite seeing prism scum, feel free to elaborate. Don't see anything really painting him scum.

game is demonstrably different from my scumgame he's seen and noticeably similar to my towngame.

No fan of this however as I don't think meta arguments are any good. At least not enough to cause a lynch.

Yes let's see if arch busses him back lol.

VOTE: Roy

Encouraged by Moz but bad sheeping vote. Bu has been good for the rest of the day. Lal vote on me later could do with explanation as well.

By the way:
VOTE: Sephiroth

there is nearly zero original content in that ISO and there are 42 posts. I checked it, because I knew that Sephiroth was in the game but don't remember much that he posted. He voted TIAM, leeoon, thegoldenparadox, TIAM today moz, nearly always following a safe waggon, seemingly active in the game but not doing much.

Preedit: BuJaber in a extrapost.

No me gusta. Aside from the 3 day silence now I think Seph has decent enough posts.

Because people that I trust to be town are voting him and in the absence of any strong reads of my own, I will sheep people I believe to be town.

What? Being town != having correct reads. At all.

and yet i've caught a lot of scum, so maybe stfu?

Sure, but that's in other games, and those games are entirely apart from this one, as you may be scum here, we don't know. Weak argument. Results from the past don't guarantee successes.

I want to lynch in Arch, Leeoon, Maybe moz very maybe Lalendra.

[Roy Tagliaferro]

Yeah can we like not wagon Seph until he gets back or is replaced?

It'd be pretty neat if people were to respond to my last post and discuss it.

Mulch vote above me seems kinda sorta opportunistic and naked. CTRL+F says no solid arguments for Sephscum aside from a feeling.

[Roy Tagliaferro]

The thing with the claim is that it's an incredibly convenient claim, like hey, I only have one shot which somehow wasn't used yet, and after this I'm just a VT. Personally I'd think to use it asap, because waiting increases the odds of being killed, and alignments aren't changing depending on the wait. I'd be fine lynching Mulch I guess. Not in my lynch pool so much but he's not a townread either. Apart from this I'd bite for Arch/Moz still. Lalendra can stay. Leeoon's slot is good-ish so far.

[Roy Tagliaferro]

I'm down for a moz lynch; not too sure that spot is town, at least Mulch seems sorta townier at this point. Agree that what NC brings up might be a little safety net though. But, Moz would need to flip scum for that first.

[Roy Tagliaferro]

I am okay but I am okayer with a Moz lynch. I guess. There's not that much of a difference really

[Roy Tagliaferro]

VOTE: Moz

Lol forgot to place that one indeed. As I said I'm fine with either.

[Roy Tagliaferro]

Hello it's me your friendly 2 shot Neapolitan

I used my shots. Crumbed it, first letter of my first few paragraphs should spell TWONEAPO or something

What do you say of a VT/not VT claim?

[Roy Tagliaferro]

Both investigations are alive.

[Roy Tagliaferro]

It does if scum lies and hopes I didn't investigate them.

[Roy Tagliaferro]

Wanna talk about claiming or not first?

[Roy Tagliaferro]

Well mulch effectively claimed non VT no?

[Roy Tagliaferro]

If I'm gonna out 2 VT/non VT results then you can too I guess. Both of us are gonna get a bullet probably so yeah. Perhaps wait until my results are out.

[Roy Tagliaferro]

VOTE: Luca Blight

There is only room for one person with a space in their username, and Nero won the coin flip.

Well, yes.

Oh I was trying to say that between Luca and Nero, Nero won the coin flip earning Luca my vote

Now as for Nero... we can keep him for now no? You don't win the battle I'm fighting in just one day.

Either way here's to hoping we can start soon because deadline is shorter than usually (7 days y'all!)

And good luck to all, yada yada.

Pretty much sometimes. Wouldn't know where to start though.

Okay, tbh I'm not sure of my stance on lurker lynches. They're not giving you info but the question is whether this is more harmful on D1 or at a later time if you see what I'm saying

Excluding the vote, the first letter of every paragraph spells TWONEAPO which was the crumb

[Roy Tagliaferro]

I had 2 shots which I used up so why would I not claim?

I want a claiming round to see how scum handles it.

[Roy Tagliaferro]

You shouldn't assume he investigated bujaber? If he got an incrimination on bujaber he'd vote there but he didn't get a guilty.

Also we need to work out the course of the day and claiming or not claiming together y'all.

[Roy Tagliaferro]

I misunderstood earlier.

From what I deduct Mulch is a flavor cop not a role cop. Hence he says he got vanilla yet thinks Bu is a goon. Goons are vanilla, just not vanilla town.

[Roy Tagliaferro]

VOTE: bujaber


I checked someone last night and got no incriminating result so not gonna out it

Fine I’m just gonna claim bc I’m confused


I investigated bujaber and got vanilla

I think he’s probably a goon

So why shouldn’t I vote him exactly?

I forgot about the rolecop claim earlier. But, the above statements are contradictory, no? If Mulch is a rolecop, he would not have gotten a "Vanilla" result, it would have been "Vanilla Town" at most. Plus the "Vanilla result --> possible goon" points towards a flavour cop not a role cop. Right? Or am I being an idiot here.

[Roy Tagliaferro]

Ah, stupidity on my part then. I don't think I ever played with a rolecop or at least I can't recall so. In this case yeah Mulch' claim is Valid most likely.

[Roy Tagliaferro]

Do y'all just want me to out at this point or

[Roy Tagliaferro]

1T + 1S RC

You had that in your archive, is that referring to 1 Town Neapo + 1shot Rolecop? If not can you clarify what T is?

[Roy Tagliaferro]

At this point I have one VT and one non VT which is very likely a guilty.

[Roy Tagliaferro]

Probably for the best.

Sephiroth is a VT.

Bujaber is not. Combine this with Mulch' result and do the math yourself. If this somehow flips town we're gonna set the record for fastest lynch tomorrow.

VOTE: Bujaber

[Roy Tagliaferro]

Cmon we need 3 more

[Roy Tagliaferro]

This does require us to trust Mulch yes. IF Bu flips town then Mulch lied.

[Roy Tagliaferro]

Mulch who did you investigate n1.

Roy who did you investigate n1?

Seph.

[Roy Tagliaferro]

Well if we are suddenly not believing Mulch claim then Bu might not be scum.

[Roy Tagliaferro]

Literally if we had your way we would have wagoned Mulch day1.

He replaced in Day 2.

[Roy Tagliaferro]

Well no if Mulch is a rolecop then Bujaber is scum.

But currently you're just a VT you say, Bu?

[Roy Tagliaferro]

Well, it's a PR, if you're not a PR, you're scum.

Thanks Stefan - I was hoping he would forget the death of Moz

[Roy Tagliaferro]

Says on wiki any role that isn't vanilla. I'm day 5 innocent child then.

Revisionist history is the correct term here no?

"I wasn't a D5IC 5 minutes ago but since you pointed it out, I now am!"

[Roy Tagliaferro]

No worries Stefan, I came across more rude than I wanted to

So yeah unless the mod fucked up;

VOTE: Bujaber
VOTE: Bujaber
VOTE: Bujaber
VOTE: Bujaber

[Roy Tagliaferro]

Mulch stay in here because if you get modkilled or anything we lose a near conftown

[Roy Tagliaferro]

>play scummy to avoid nightkill
>help town catch scum and clear a VT
>be the worst town player

what?

[Roy Tagliaferro]

I mean why the fuck did you all think I threw that wacky third vote gambit out there...? It was to get attention. Got a little too much heat for my liking but yeah, same effect.

The thing about investigations is partially getting lucky and partially investigating people who might be scum. I chose you and Seph because you were hard to sort, be it for me or for the game in general.

Bu is at L-2 I think because Mulch and I voted twice both and he himself is 3rd on the wagon (ha, the coincidence)

[Roy Tagliaferro]

Oh I didnt see that. We're L-1 yes. Wanna wait for like Lalendra, Chris, who am I missing to pop in before delivering the hammer?

[Roy Tagliaferro]

@Fitz; yes, that was N1. Seph VT.

Bu... I'd rather have a wobbly but true claim than being dead N2 without at least confirming a "difficult" player as town. (I had the impression people had trouble reading or placing Seph D1)

Plus why wouldn't I claim if I ran out of shots?

Lmao replacing having effect? If anything we got more active.

[Roy Tagliaferro]

Woo! We did it! Was shocked to find 2 scum.