Mini 1698: MDCXCVIII [C'est fini!]

[Sméagol]

Actions:

Night 1

-

Boonskiies

kills

FA_Q2

-

pisskop

protects

Boonskiies

-

spicer1209

investigates

Dragonspawn

// Dragonspawn does not possess a gun

-

TheDominator37

kills

Shazam

-

FA_Q2

investigates

Dragonspawn

// FA_Q2 is dead (but Dragonspawn's role is vanilla)

Night 2

-

spicer1209

investigates

Boonskiies

// Boonskiies possesses a gun

-

TheDominator37

kills

GrayFoxxxx

-

pisskop

protects

Boonskiies

-

Boonskiies

kills

Annarchy

Night 3

-

spicer1209

investigates

Titus

// He's dead (but Titus doesn't possess a gun)

-

Boonskiies

kills

spicer1209

[Annarchy]

btw Boon/piss, this isn't a pony avatar.

[pisskop]

what is it?

[Sméagol]

I had to do some research as well (as I did intend to draw something eventually, it never happened, but anyway), it's Stocking, from the anime Panty & Stocking. I've never seen it myself. Didn't know exactly what to draw for it.

[dragonspawn]

First of all, Dragonspawn, what was with that IP ban?

I'll open up the dead thread, I'll also open up the mafia thread, even though Bulb hasn't gotten back to me about that yet, but I don't think he'll mind. I'll also invite everyone involved in the game, players, replaced players, and reviewers, to share your comments.

I hope you had fun in any case, I had fun modding.

Ask me everything! Comment about everything that's on your mind, balance, my modding, the game, whatever.

Oh and sorry about neglecting the flavour in the end, I was lazy . I still want to do them actually, and I was secretly hoping Boon would last one other day, so I had some more time haha.

No idea what was up with the ip ban. All I know is it wouldn't let me Post for an unknown reason. But it's working alright now. Go figure

[dragonspawn]

Btw boon I could have believed you were a town with a gun but the role you picked to fake claim was bad and then when you started "speculating" that we had a mafia doc and lo.and behold we do it was just too much

[pisskop]

hunh.

I watched a minute of wahtever youtube spat at me and its like a congloberation of all the kids cartoon memes.

I mean it even had little bootleg grrr

[pisskop]

I was kicking myself inside when boons mentioned a doc

[Annarchy]

P&S is basically the South Park of anime. enough said

balance-wise, I'd say this was probably spot-on. I get the feeling players during D3 were assuming there would be a little more town power, but I think it had enough.

[implosion]

I am curious about one thing with regards to the setup - were you going for anything in particular with the way the watcher role worked?

[Sméagol]

Balance:

First of all, the set-up started out differently. I insist on having my one allowed non-normal role.. But the first one was

too

non-normal, and wasn't allowed. The 2nd one.. Well the reviewers weren't too enthousiastic, but didn't object either, then it got vetoed by N. The watcher variant was the 3 role. The rest of the set-up changed a bit, though most of the roles were there from the start. It didn't have a gunsmith though.. The reviewers thought it initially was scumsided, so the gunsmith got added. You can view all the drama in the review thread once its public, the link is in the OP.

The role cop could "clear" the doctor, but the watcher would have been an interesting find. As he would have to explain what the variance was.

The vigilante was straight forward. Although next time I should perhaps count it as a mafia power role for balance purposes .

The gunsmith could find 2 out of 3 scumnags, and 2 false positives.

The watcher was a little extra power I wanted to give the mafia. I didn't think it would be too strong, as the most optimal kill is not the most optimal target for watching. Reviewers agreed.

The doctor was there to weaken the vig, but more importantly it was there to function as an actual safeclaim. The role cop could clear him, the gunsmith could clear him, and a mafia doctor is not a common thing. It didn't work out that way in the game though. With the set-up speculation going on, and especially with Boon "speculating" a mafia doctor, it lost its function as a safe claim. Like I said in the dead thread, I personally though Piss had to bus Boon late-game, if he had the chance, but he didn't. He would have had to claim vanilla townie, and get investigated by Spicer, who could "clear" him.

I thought the balance was fine, although it's a little bit hard to tell, with most of them dying early. I also find it funny that 2 power roles replaced out.

For those curious, the first set-up that got rejected had a town "magnet", someone who would redirect to himself. The 2nd rejected set-up had an anonymous voter for the mafia. Common roles for all set-ups were the town role cop and vig, and a mafia doctor.

[pisskop]

I mean, because pisskop was obviously the doctor, so i wanted to get rid of the power role

You can say you pegged me, but I dont see any evidence for you knowing my role

[Sméagol]

I am curious about one thing with regards to the setup - were you going for anything in particular with the way the watcher role worked?

I was already typing the post above but:
I wanted some extra power for the mafia that wasn't too strong.
This was a role with basically 2 powers in one ability, like a jailkeeper. The advantage was that it came at no extra cost, it was "built-in". But it was weaker than a dedicated watcher. In my mind, the player you'd want to kill, is generally not the player you'd want to watch, so I thought that would balance it out. It was a bit luck based, you needed some town players with incorrect reads.
Again, this was after a town non-normal role and another mafia non-normal role got rejected, so I had to come up with something else, and this came out. A shame Bulb didn't get to use it, but as you can see from the actions, it wouldn't have mattered.

I hope you liked the set-up and the non-normal role. I can guarantee there will be one in every normal game I'll mod.

[GrayFoxxxx]

Fun game smeag. Great modding too

[implosion]

The role cop could "clear" the doctor, but the watcher would have been an interesting find. As he would have to explaing what the variance was.

Role cops in normal games are supposed to get the entire role whoever they target, not just the name, if it's the non-explicitly-normal role.

Any new roles without a wiki page must flip with their Role PM (redactions permitted). A Rolecop investigation of the same role should be similar, without alignment.

I also enjoyed this game - modding was good, and the setup was interesting.

[pisskop]

hey, somebody should replace into my NY 187!

We are going to be stuck in N2 without you . . .

[GrayFoxxxx]

Going to check it out

[GrayFoxxxx]

Oh god I'm already in a couple larges.

[Annarchy]

I'll do it

[pisskop]

\o/

[Sméagol]

Fun game smeag. Great modding too

Thanks!

The role cop could "clear" the doctor, but the watcher would have been an interesting find. As he would have to explaing what the variance was.

Role cops in normal games are supposed to get the entire role whoever they target, not just the name, if it's the non-explicitly-normal role.

Any new roles without a wiki page must flip with their Role PM (redactions permitted). A Rolecop investigation of the same role should be similar, without alignment.

I also enjoyed this game - modding was good, and the setup was interesting.

Funny you bring this up.. I forgot to mention. But no, role cops.. originally only got the roles, just like you're used to. The normal guidelines you quoted are new, and I was exempt from those. But guess who caused those rule changes? Again, if you want the drama, you should check out the review thread once its public.

In short: the role cop would simply get the report "watcher (variant)", when targeting the watcher. As that was simply the name I've given him, I didn't have a fancy name for it. Ether wanted it to be a more incriminating name or just give the role cop the full role PM, but I really didn't want to, because, in this case, this would all but confirm the watcher as mafia, which is not something I'd want for a role cop. So I protested heavily at that ability interaction. I was perfectly fine with revealing the role PM at the flip, and I do not mind role cops getting full role PMs in general.. It just didn't work out for this particular role. It's not a problem for the other roles I have in my potential future set-ups, none of those have anything inherently alignment indicative.

Oh and thanks!

[Sméagol]

I'd also like to thank my replacements.. I got lucky with 5 out of 6 of them. I was aware of replacements being a common factor in games here.. But I didn't realise it would be the single most difficult thing to deal with as a mod.
It's also too bad the replacements screwed the mafia a little, but I don't know what else to do about it as a mod. Apart from simply hoping players don't replace out.

I'd also like to say I thought Boon and Piss were doing great despite the circumstances.. A day 1 mafia lynch is not common as far as I know. If Bulb had survived, their chances of winning would have been significant I believe. They should've been able to deal with a guilty gunsmith report, and Boon in fact

did

deal with it. They also contemplated killing spicer night 2, which would have been great for them, but alas. Boon's day play was great, until the end, but Piss had almost impeccable night play. Together day had figured out most of the set-up day 1, and on day 2 I believe they also figured out most of the role distribution. They consciously kept Dom alive. I did feel sorry for Spicer though, poor guy. You get an incriminating report, and nobody follows you..

I originally intended to keep more quotes archived for post-game reference, but then neglected it. I didn't read the game as intensely as I would as a player. One of the things I can finally comment on though:

Also this is a Normal game so there arent any two faction scum. I could be wrong but I think that isnt allowed in normals but Kahn being a site mod I believe should be able to confirm or deny that. Which means we have a vig because I think serial killers are out on normals as well. Again this is also along the "meta" way of thinking but usually the first flip announced is the scum kill and the second one announced is the vig kill. Which means FA was a scum kill and Shazam was the vig kill.

Normal games are allowed to have multiple scum factions and/or serial killers. We don't need Khan to confirm that. It's pretty rare, though, ime. Further, good moderators will randomize the order of flips and trying to game that is really, really bad. Shazam is a nonsenical vig kill and FA is a nonsensical scum kill. I'd be astonished if Shazam was vigged and FA was scumkilled.

They were ordered in the same way they are ordered in the playerslist.

[implosion]

Funny you bring this up.. I forgot to mention. But no, role cops.. originally only got the roles, just like you're used to. The normal guidelines you quoted are new, and I was exempt from those. But guess who caused those rule changes? Again, if you want the drama, you should check out the review thread once its public.

Ha. That's pretty funny. Well good job pushing the boundaries . I always think trying to shake up the meta and do things that are unexpected within the bounds of normalcy is a good thing.

That line from the wiki was also why I was asking for a full flip on Bulb's role, because based on that line we should have gotten a full flip. Amusing that the reason that it's there is the very role that I wanted a full flip on.

They were ordered in the same way they are ordered in the playerslist.

This is also a good method.

[GrayFoxxxx]

Link to scum chat?

[Sméagol]

Ha. That's pretty funny. Well good job pushing the boundaries . I always think trying to shake up the meta and do things that are unexpected within the bounds of normalcy is a good thing.

That line from the wiki was also why I was asking for a full flip on Bulb's role, because based on that line we should have gotten a full flip. Amusing that the reason that it's there is the very role that I wanted a full flip on.

Haha, I'm glad someone appreciates my effort . I love going against meta. I'm in a fine position to do so, as an "outsider". The meta from my original site is very different, and I have my own ideas as well. Plus I'm stubborn .

Since I was exempt from the latest normal guidelines changes, I didn't reveal the full role PM in the flip, although that wasn't something I'd mind doing. But then you asked about it, and I hesitated.. I wasn't sure if revealing the role PM at that point would influence set-up speculation. But I just posted it shortly after, thinking "the longer I wait, the more suspicious it's going to be".

Link to scum chat?

Dead thread
Mafia thread
I don't think I'll open up the mod thread, I'll have to clean that up first (comments about private conversations)

Plus it's in the OP, although I forgot to edit the correct link now I think of it.