Mini Theme 2007: Police Academy 1 - Game Over
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Ankamius Survivor
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You're like 2/3 to the game solve that Pun/Jingle/myself hitIn post 2965, OnTheMark wrote:Ank is most likely town using Punreader VCA here
No reason to drive a bus on Almost50 in that gamestate
So then continuing that line of thought then if Titus is town the jjh/Gork slot is the one off the wagon and therefore is pun.-
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Idk if I should be insulted by this or notIn post 2968, Titus wrote:The VCA says my scumpool. Common sense says my scumpool. Yet Mark has Ank doing three cartwheels to suggest Gork.-
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In post 2834, Ankamius wrote:And yes, town is dysfunctional
That's what I've been trying to fix all day-
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Ankamius Survivor
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I'm just going to add to the sentiment that I think like 3 people have stated already
OTM is the only one that thinks you're scum
You're the only one that thinks OTM is scum
I think we've reached the point where you two just need to accept that you can't read each other,which OTM is already starting to realize.And the moment he did, guess what he's trending towards? The same scumpool that everyone else is.-
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Ankamius Survivor
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In post 2965, OnTheMark wrote:Ank is most likely town using Punreader VCA here
No reason to drive a bus on Almost50 in that gamestate
So then continuing that line of thought then if Titus is town the jjh/Gork slot is the one off the wagon and therefore is pun.
LikeIn post 2966, OnTheMark wrote:Also take a look at how much care Almost50 has for saying Titus is town. It’s almost like it’s preprogrammed and he stays away from the Titus wagon and on Nos.
Someone who (Nos I love you as a person) posts very little and isn’t influential. How did Nos get to that point over Titus?
If I use Punreader VCA style it says Titus/jjh which seems really odd to me in my gut.
Punreader thinks it's eddie/jjh
I think it's eddie/jjh
Jingle thinks it's eddie/jjh
OTM IS LITERALLY 1-2 STEPS AWAY FROM THIS
WE CAN'T ALL BE SCUM-
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Ankamius Survivor
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In post 2706, Ankamius wrote:
Considering the main difference between my townreads and myself is the Pun-scumread (and I'm willing to submit to copping Pun if I have to, I just think lynching them is objectively bad for the game), I don't think that's very likely unless literally all of us is off-base.In post 2642, OnTheMark wrote:
And if your townreads are leading you astray?In post 2639, Ankamius wrote:I'd rather decide with my townreads, thanks.
You say you are confident it is Eddie and Pun.
I am telling you put your money where your mouth is.
If it’s a town flip we cop Titus lynch Jingle.
If it isn’t a townflip we go with majority plan.
It’s the best of both worlds.
But in that case, it'll be obvious before too long, so.
We have time to sort all this out.
I've gone into it multiple times why I think Punreader being lynched is bad.In post 2711, Ankamius wrote:
You have a way out in the form of a Punreader-lynch. Then you kill me tonight and the eddie/jjh scumteam theory holds a lot less water in the collective minds because it's both untested and less likely to be pushed because both the slots pushing it are dead. This has changed since then with Jingle also syncing with us, but this mindset and approach is consistent with how you've played the day out regarding both your tunnel on Pun and how you've went about addressing the cases on you.In post 2672, eddie wrote:And I don't have a "caught scum" play. Mini normal 1950 (?) hosted by Mastina. I was guiltied d2, fought for 30 pages and it ended in a scum win with all the associations I forged. One of those above games I linked I was guiltied d2, and it was not arguable, so I just bascially resigned. But I didn't play like "caught scum", I resigned because I'm good enough to know when to throw in my hand and not waste time or energy. I don't care how you play as scum, I have a damn high scum winrate and it isn't from "making the type of cases you do when you're caught scum".
I'll stop typing in bold to you when you actually treat me like a human being and engage with me.
THAT'Swhat I'm referring to. In this type of situation, I'd do whatever I damn well can do in order to weaken the foundation of the scumreads on me even without a foundation for the cases being wrong. It's probably the simplest way of catching scum; scum will do what theyhaveto do to win.
And in order for an eddie/jjh team to win,Punreader must be lynched today.With an eddie scumflip or a jjh scumflip, the other loses significant amounts of influence, town still has two mislynches, and suddenly the townblock becomes even stronger. That's even without OTM being proven wrong about his reads, which would remove another avenue of play you can rely on. The game would effectively be over because lynching the other becomes a non-issue. Even without my townread on Punreader, I would still be firmly against lynching them forexactlythis reason. I'm confident in my ability to gamesolve in situations where I can read how the game flows, and I firmly believe that you two have good odds of flipping scum when layered against this.
So no, my statement was just a simplification. I read through your entire rebuttal to Jingle's case, and what I'm seeing is poking at the vagueness of it and outright misconstruing others. I don't think Jingle's case is especially convincing personally, but your response to it is just scum-indicative and survivalistic.-
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In post 2983, Titus wrote:That's why when you pissed on my solution, I dug my heels in. As conftown, I can try to stop the trainwreck.
...You didn't pop in and try to push your compromise until we had literally already reached one.In post 2985, Titus wrote:solution = compromise-
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Like, Titus I would understand your viewpoint more if you had a presence in the thread, but you haven't.
I've gone into my reads and why I think the way I do at least half a dozen times. I literally just now quoted ONE of them.
You've barely had a presence in the thread up until 2 days ago; that's literally the reason I was actually hesitant on lynching you yesterday, because I don't understand how scum-Titus would have that little of an impact in the game while still being active enough to be posting consistently.
And yet I had to fight my ass off to get the compromise I did get despite not being what I would find most optimal from lynch + cop actions today and tonight, so I'm not exactly in the best mindset to be accommodatingyet anotherdiametrically opposed viewpoint when it only started becoming an issue just now.-
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Ankamius Survivor
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Where the hell were you when we were hashing this out? I literally forged that compromise because nothing was happening for multiple days at a time and it was the best way I could see to both get the lynch I wanted and get town to be more synced up in the future.In post 2992, Titus wrote:
This nonsense again. We had a pun lynch. We had everything planned. Mark comes in. Spams Jingle Titus, you accomodate him even though we have matmatical near proof of him being anti-town.In post 2989, Ankamius wrote:In post 2983, Titus wrote:That's why when you pissed on my solution, I dug my heels in. As conftown, I can try to stop the trainwreck.
...You didn't pop in and try to push your compromise until we had literally already reached one.In post 2985, Titus wrote:solution = compromise
Let's stop rehashing the timeline. You aren't convincing me Mark didn't just go along with wrecking the townblock bc that's what he did and does everyday.
Just give me some help on actually sorting him when jjh flips town. If you can't do that, I have zero hope of you ever lynching scum because you'll dismiss whatever I say bc spam or excuse of the moment.
Nobody gave a shit, so I took the lead and MADE people give a shit.-
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Ankamius Survivor
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btw I'm sorry about this outburst; it was caused by out of game stuff.In post 2762, Ankamius wrote:UNVOTE: jjh
VOTE: punreader
I'm done, let's get the only town cohesion out of here so we can lose. This town is too dysfunctional by this point and I'm not going to bother trying to get everyone to sync up anymore.-
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Ankamius Survivor
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In post 1968, Ankamius wrote:Ankamius
EspeciallyTheLies
Nosferatu
Titus
OnTheMark
Punreader
Jingle
eddie
GorkingtonIn post 1969, Ankamius wrote:
That post looksIn post 1946, OnTheMark wrote:
Also what do you make of Jingle’s soft defense of A50 while attacking Ank?In post 1930, Jingle wrote:Spoiler: This interaction is incredibly awkward.
These are the Ank side, and it's worth looking at the Eddie side too, but basically Eddie freaked out about being a scumreadbeforehe had even replaced into the game, on page 20. (his replacement, for reference, comes on page 23) Ank's reaction however, is WAY more interesting. Instead of pointing out that she was still catching up and that this was a reads list from before eddie himself was in the game, she immediately points out that another player (pun) is becoming more scummy and that Eddie shouldn't expect her to be able to read him because she wasn't even hardscumreading him in a recent game.
:thorface:
This is fairly representative of Ank's reads lists while catching up. There's not a lot of substance, when you look at them. Consistently, she's naming the people in my PoE pool as scummy, but the names are usually EVERYONE in my PoE pool (other than Nos) or different every time. For the record, this is NAI, not scummy, but I disagree entirely with a townread based on this level of content.In post 1514, Ankamius wrote:Bottom of 36:
Now I'm thinking {Almost50 + Gorkington + Eddie} with Nos substituting if there's a town there.
This is the definition of low hanging fruit. Look, all of the universal townreads (and Nos) are scumreading this player and no one else is. This is not a reason A50 is scummy. This is a reason A50 is a good target for scum. Rereading A50 to check if derptown or obvscum is now a high priority, as is my reset on Nos.In post 1606, Ankamius wrote:
First of all, since when do dead slots have a vote?In post 1531, mhsmith0 wrote:
Second, look at this:
ETL, Jingle, Stop Getting Banned Again, and Nosferatu are all scumreading Almost50.
Punreader, as far as I can tell, has been townreading Almost50 ever since early on in their replacement, only detailing that Titus-scum would increase the chances of Almost50-scum.
Draynth, besides not being here how, hasn't mentioned any read on Almost50 in two weeks (which was lean-scum anyways).
Gorkington hasn't stated any read on Almost50 since page 32, which was in itself vague.
eddie has never stated a read on Almost50 except for a recent... null read I assume?
Titus thinks the scumteam is Eddie/SGBA/Punreader, assuming a townread on Almost50 either to create that PoE or because of that team scumread.
This means that all my strong townreads are scumreading Almost50, yet nobody else is.
I don't think this is a coincidence at all.
Also, notably, Ank has expounded on the A50 read as A50 is scum because he's not town, which is pretty :thorface: in context.
This, frankly, doesn't make any sense. Ank is hardtownreading 4 people. 3 of those people are universal townreads. It is day 2. The only way we're in a bad position here is if town is incompetent or scum has infiltrated the universal townreads. Ank clearly doesn't believe the latter, and I don't think from context that Ank believes either me or ETL to be incompetent, so the former doesn't make sense either. From my PoV this looks like a great place to be as town. This looks way more like what scum should be thinking at this point in the game.In post 1650, Ankamius wrote:Like
If we don't get a scumflip today
I honestly don't know if town can win if my read on the gamestate is at least reasonably accurate barring a huge cop guilty chain or other mechanics, which I try to not rely on whenever possible.
:thorface:
If Ank scum, Titus town.In post 1658, Ankamius wrote:tbh
If I end up dead tonight, then your reads probably have a lot of merit.
Until then, I don't really agree outside of eddie.
tl;dr, Pun, I'm gonna need that Ank towncase after all.reallybad with an Almost50 scumflip.-
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Ankamius Survivor
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In post 3085, Titus wrote:It's not how I deal with scum. Talking to scum just spams the thread. People call it T v T.
So I don't talk to scum. Town doesn't want to talk to me.
Can we just hammer already?In post 3081, Punreader wrote:In post 3069, Titus wrote:I don't engage scum.Then you should have engaged Ankamius's reasons for me being town (when Ankamius is the player with the second-best understanding of my meta), and you should have engaged JINGLE YOUR STRONGEST TOWNREAD'S reasoning for me being town WHEN HE IS THE PLAYER WITH THE BEST UNDERSTANDING OF MY META.-
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Ankamius Survivor
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anyways
1. Punreader has a history of seeing me as a threat for my reads strength; this CAN be confirmed, though I won't do it here for hopefully obvious reasons. This drastically increases my odds of being nightkilled in a Pun-scum world
2. Day 2 ended with a scum lynch on a wagon that I pushed for. Evidence that my reads don't suck extreme assandI have the influence to push them through. This is grounds for being seen as a threat
3. Put those two together and it actually makes very little sense for me to be alive coming into day three; me dying wouldn't have been weird whether Pun was scum or not since... well, #2
There's also this:
4. Punreader has been engaging me for most of the game
5. Punreader has openly admitted several times that my reads helped shape their own
6. Punreader has always had their reads in a very similar lynch pool to mine
Punreader KNOWS HOW TO COUNTER ME. ^^^THIS IS NOT HOW TO COUNTER ME.
There's also the point that Punreader is aHUGEplanner as scum. Everything has a purpose, every action is designed to dosomething. Punreader effectively cut out half of the potential scumpool day two,doubled downon that scumpool, and again... didn't kill the player (myself) that was basically snaring them to that scumpool. Either Punreader is already planning on lynching within a pool of like 4 players all the way to the end of the game, then Pun outright isn't scum. They're not dumb, they know how to push town into a state where they're bound to lose in LyLo. They'd have a plan already set and in motion towards that goal. I told you this before and asked you what their plan was. I sure as hell don't see it.-
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Ankamius Survivor
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hey are you scumIn post 3097, jjh927 wrote:Joke's on you I never actually read Gork's iso before replacing in-
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Ankamius Survivor
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Ankamius Survivor
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Ankamius Survivor
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Ankamius Survivor
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Ankamius Survivor
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Ankamius Survivor
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Ankamius Survivor
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was anyone else strongly townreading gork around this point?In post 1459, Nosferatu wrote:{Jingle, Gorkington}
{Titus, Ank, eddie, ETL, SGBA}
{Draynth, punreader}
{}
{Almost50}
I have way too many town reads lmfaooo
because that read is really really really weird, especially from nos
Pun wouldn't have played d3 the way they did as scum I don't thinkeddie wrote:
so are you still sure Pun's town?In post 3123, Ankamius wrote:The kills and the way you've been playing don't match up-
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Actually I'll go into that a bit more
Punreader kills ETL to avoid the obvtown tunnel on their slot
Use me to lynch eddie D4
Kill me N4
Titus and OTM would have bad reads and no synergy with the rest of town
Jingle... idk
Nosferatu hasn't been a presence
That would be a pretty simple endgame to win for Pun-
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Ankamius Survivor
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In post 1578, Ankamius wrote:What do you mean what tells? I literally just said that I've only ever seen him as town.
I've also just stated (with proof unless you want to go through my entire game history too) that I've always been able to townread Gork early on and keep it at a townread for the whole game every time I've seen him.
And what's happening this game?
His entrance was scummy
His interactions with Titus was scummy
His interactions with Nosferatu was scummy
I'd have to check my notes again, but I don't think there's much that gave me townvibes on him.In post 1611, Ankamius wrote:Also to ETL:
I'll go into this in more detail when I go into my Gorkington scumread in the future, but this is literally the point where you're 100% locktowned for me.In post 1227, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:Gork because he had a persistent scumread there, I suppose, though the read was never explained, and in 631 he says he can't even remember why he was voting him.
but then the next mention of porkens isn't for nearly another hundred posts, in 788 where he votes Nos, and saysporkens is an enigma and i dont really remember why i felt they were scummy anymore.
When I told him I strongly felt that Porkens was town and asked him to convince why I was wrong, he said simply that it was because Porkens just wasn't a townread... and then asked me to convince why I thought Porkens was town (which I did). He then appeals to Porkens to use his vote and be more productive. And asks people to give a hard stance on porkens, titus, and punreader with reasons, and votes porkens again, becauseporkens and a50 are also okay alternatives on this front!dont feel like theyre honestly trying to get eddie lynched at all right now, which feels especially awful given how little time is left in the day.
<snip>
as of right now im willing to vote titus for deadline if porkens towns it up.
Based on the previous posts and notes here, this was not obvious to me at all...i think it should be obvious that i like porkens lynch more than a titus lynch.
He also asks for input on Porkens from tn, and eddie. and me. and jingle. and Nos. And argues that Porkens is scummier than Titus... I think. 1073
I completely missed this progression, but this is exactly the type of behavior I've been noticing from him that's causing me to scumread him as much as I am.
His posts around the time where he started pushing Porkens has felt forged.
His back and forth with Nosferatu is very sketchy; Nosferatu was (apparently less obviously than I thought) giving off intimidated-town tells at Gork's counterpush despite Gork having no basis behind his attack.
There's also his lack of attention towards sorting Almost50 the entire game.
Gorkington, despite having no stated read on Titus up to that point, heavily defends against the wagon on her. This is scummy by itself, but it's even more damning if they're scum together.
That's just with your two non-me scumreads. It should be entirely believable that Gorkington is scum this game because you've already seen the type of play that's indicating it independently, and he also makes sense being scum with both Almost50 and Titus.
I personally don't believe Titus is scum and I don't believe this Titus/Nosferatu dichotomy is going to be good for town no matter which slot is lynched. It's too late for a Titus lynch to be the best scum-flip we can get now because I have a very bad feeling that one of us is going to be the nightkill tonight and that'll be all that's needed for him to run free for the rest of the game.In post 1847, Ankamius wrote:Btw
I also follow the philosophy that this stream of consciousness thing is very difficult to fake since it's actually really difficult to have an agenda yet manage to hide it while posting in that style. It's not overly difficult to have a consistent internal logic to spew from, but you have to be more careful when you're scum faking it since either you aren't careful enough and scum-intent shines through, or you're too careful and the stream of consciousness shows as fake.
I've never gotten that impression from Nos' posts this game. You can probably make an argument for the routes of discussion that you two have gone down indicating a scummy mindset, but... I just don't see it myself.In post 1849, Ankamius wrote:(ftr if it wasn't obvious already)
(this type of reasoning is why I'm scumreading gork too)
(pssssst)-
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There's other reasons I think you're scum too Nos
1. Timing of your lurking, it was mainly a thing after gork subbed out
2. I can see you killing Titus in general
3. The general strategy of the night kills benefits a mostly-go-with-the-flow-try-not-to-antagonize-people-too-much approach
4. Too many townreads tell
5. I kinda remember your tone feeling disheartened or defeated over time
6. I think your type of stream of consciousness posting is easier to fake than gork's was; it's plausible to think I hit a blind spot with you specifically when I really look back and go through how you've felt over time-
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Ankamius Survivor
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I can go into why the kills thatIn post 3137, eddie wrote:
wifom trapping yourself, but in general fair enoughIn post 3129, Ankamius wrote:Actually I'll go into that a bit more
Punreader kills ETL to avoid the obvtown tunnel on their slot
Use me to lynch eddie D4
Kill me N4
Titus and OTM would have bad reads and no synergy with the rest of town
Jingle... idk
Nosferatu hasn't been a presence
That would be a pretty simple endgame to win for Pun
nos is probs the lynch today depending on Jingle results
where we go if he is town is my concern rndidhappen don't fit with Pun's general scum playstyle too if you want!
I don't think I really care enough to go into detail on though, I just don't think Pun deviates from the above or at least finds some way to efficiently manage the suspicion on them. Titus dying doesn't achieve that-
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Ankamius Survivor
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Ankamius Survivor
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- Location: Target Locked. Initiating Combat.
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Ankamius Survivor
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- Posts: 21802
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- Location: Target Locked. Initiating Combat.
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Ankamius Survivor
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- Location: Target Locked. Initiating Combat.
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Ankamius Survivor
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- Posts: 21802
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Ankamius Survivor
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- Posts: 21802
- Joined: May 9, 2011
- Location: Target Locked. Initiating Combat.