Mini 2049: The Townsquare Game Over

[skitter30]

hello all!

@mod

: regular v/la on fridays and saturdays

==

Hello everyone,

Vote Lady Angel

Till you post

i mean she'd posted already before this

i'm not entirely following what the point of this vote is. it's rvs - did you think she was less likely to post if you hadn't voted her here?

==

Lynch everyone. VOTE: Lady Angel Not personal angel, you just happen to be in the category of everyone.

out of everyone, why did you pick lady angel to vote here?

==

cheeky might be town

[skitter30]

Almost50 replaces Sickofit1138.

hi!!!!

==

But I think with you that’s 100% of that game’s playerlist I’ve played with

oh wow, i think i've played with like ... 5 of you lol

==

Thinking Darklight and LA are scum based on first impressions.

why darklight?

==

VOTE: CheekyTeeky
lmao you're looking at three posts chill out scum

i think it's entirely possible to begin forming reads at this stage; i like that she picked up on what was bothering me about roberts' lady angel vote

i don't understand why you think she's scummy for attempting to form reads here; i think it's +town to try to do so in rvs in an attempt to move the game out of it

i can understand why you might think rvs reads are *reachy* but i don't get *scummy* here

==

I did say I'd unvote once she posted again. lol.

so what was the point of voting her in the first place?

==

Seems weak, isk if it's just style but this sounds half hearted. My gut says scum, but it could just be play idk. I think a50 is a better probe

i kinda liked bujaber's post actually; don't have enough from tw to read him yet; why do you think your gut says scum?

i have some thoughts on a50 but i'm going to hold off a bit

[skitter30]

No, I meant robert

oh i thought you were giving your opinion on the ducks lol

yeah their reason for voting/unvoting lady angel is kinda dubious imo

also i don't like that they're characterizing the ducks as a 'comedy skit' - it's kinda shade-y and i think it's fairly apparent that if a50 *is* scum here he's not going to literally claim scum just because buj asked him so treating that as a serious question and then writing off the slot for it feels kinda wrong to me.

meh

VOTE: robert

[skitter30]

v/la for a couple of days

[skitter30]

sorry, i'm dealing with some irl stuff

==

why darklight?

Original ping was probably just because the "first" type comments are a pet peeve of mine, but the scummy part was the cheeky vote and unvote.

It doesn't seem like an RVS vote because of the timing, so why unvote just becuase cheeky said she's innocent.

And if it was in fact an RVS vote, the unvote makes less sense... did he suddenly get scared?

-BuJ

yeah at first glance his initial vote does'nt seem rvs given that it's on the heels of a cheeky post, but i kinda thought the unovte felt a little townie to me? it was very ... carefree i guess is the right word? like i didn't really get the vibe that he was thinking that much about his vote, but rather that he was just going with the flow and was just being kinda like spontaneous.

like i guess the unvote for simple/vague reasons right after the vote lacks a self-consciousness on some level that i kinda townread if that makes sense

Lies

Vote Count 0.0

(...)

Important Notes:
-

The Game is currently in the Confirmation Stage.

VOTE: DDJ

i kinda got the same vibe from with the posts around here ^^^^

==

Going that deep feels fake. If you're seriously developing a scumread off of people's RVS posts you're fooling yourself, if you're not you're scum. That's what you get out of rvs, people's indirect reactions to it that gets the game going, you don't analyse the content of the rvs posts themselves.

it's entirely possible to start forming reads based on rvs posts imo. yeah the reasoning can be weak and probably isn't push-to-a-lynch worthy, but if people don't start that process we'll kinda like be stuck in rvs forever and never really get anywhere. i think it's +town of cheeky to start that process and try to get the ball rolling

have you played many mafia games?

(also i would argue that analyzing contents of rvs posts forms those reactions that gets the game going)

==

Why did he actually say there was no nk. I mean, hes not going to come right out and say it, but theres no way this isn't scum

not entirely following why you think saying there's no night kill makes him scum?
like i don't see a connection between one thing and the other

@ddj how did he get this info as town? I cant find it in the role message nor the info? How is this soft townslip? Calling the stabbyduck as partner.

you're like accusing him of having some sort of extra info because he said htere aren't nks?

i mean ... it's possible that we're in a game without nks but if he's scum with that information why does he repeatedly call attention to that or highlight it?

also, suppose ddj *is* scum with a50 who *did* slip somehow *and* you caught on - do you really think ddj defends him for it here?

==

I sure need to stop playing too many games and with too many accounts.

What are your current active accounts?

VOTE: Almost50

why are you voting him here? i'm not really follwoing the point of questioning him about his active accounts?

==

Why did he actually say there was no nk. I mean, hes not going to come right out and say it, but theres no way this isn't scum

I forgot there are people who play me for the first time.

OK, I'll explain. I may have a global Doctor shot or two. Happy now?

ngl i low-key think you're trying to get yourself n1'd again

==

Why are you sheeping DDJ?

Wagons are a good form of pressure.

I feel like you might be town from your reaction though.

VOTE: Thor

why?

==

@tw how are you reading cheeky?

==

He's low hanging fruit because he seems like an easy vote to park on. Why do you think I think he's town?

i mean if you look at cheeky's voting patterns for this game thus far she hasn't exactly been voteparking; this seems like a strange thing to call her out in particular for imo. (especially since you don't seem to be taking exception to ddj's or milk's votes)

and i guess i can understand that a newer player might feel intimidated by rvs but i feel like popping in to defend his rvs without really doing anything else is kinda scummy

also sometimes lhf might actually be scum

If I have to pick to pressure between either Robert and Cheeky, I want to pick the more vocal one.

i'm not sure this dichotomy actually, like, exists? why do you feel like you have to pick between the two of them?

==

I'm in the mood for it

~ tw

i'm not really feeling town!you yet; you feel kinda weird for you

==

I'm just confused why you seem excited by the idea that someone defending themselves, when you clearly understand defense is a valid and important play as either alignment, is a tell.

yeah but cheeky i think is like actively playing the game and responded to a push someone made on her while continuing to interact with other people

robert had a meh rvs post; showed up again several pages later to defend it withotu really talking about anything else

her iso has scumhunting content, and his is basically about his rvs psot

i don't think the two things are much the same at all

[skitter30]

yes on this, but I'm a sucker for big ISO posts. I still do not like A50's post at all. I have a crackpot theory that my first serious vote is always scum and it hasn't been wrong in the three whole games I've played!

eh, i like to imagine i can fake posts like that as scum

==

Why do you think i should have dropped it cold turkey simply because Cheeky is active and thus has more posts about other things?

i don't believe i said or implied that you should have dropped it cold turkey, but rather i was saying that i disagreed with you that it was hypocritical because i dont' think the situations were much the same

i mean, yes, she called out robert for being defensive and then defended herself, but i don't view that as being hypocritical - robert popped in to defend himself and isn't like actively doing anything else. cheeky defended herself, explained why she thought the push on her was weak and kinda scummy - while she was defending on soviet's push, she was using it to try to look at other slots. robert's response, in contrast, was oriented on explaining why we shouldn't pay too much attention to his rvs post ... and that's it.

==

Prodding Lady Angel.

Not again!

you're doing the 'make weird posts wrt prs and then pop in to say inane things without having real content' thing again that makes me want to scumread you

p-edit why is this scum!thor indicative?

[skitter30]

@Skitter - I fail to see that as an argument convincing enough to not warrant poking at Cheeky to get reads. if you do, then continue to do nothing with such tells, I'm much more active and aggressive and consider it superior play.

i mean, again, i didn't say that you shouldn't poke her over it; you're free to get reads however you like; i'm saying that i disagree with your opinion there

==

p-edit why is this scum!thor indicative?

Check the games I linked. I could go dig up more, but these two were recent enough. NEVER underestimate Thor's scum game.

ok, let's assume that i don't have the time or patience rn to metadive him - explain what about those games makes you think he's scum here

is it just that you think his reasoning is shallow?

==

In previous equivalent games he's actually efforted with sensible output, but on the other hand he's had a 3 year break from the site (and he has like 150 posts total) so there's only so much to be dug from there.

have you played with him prior to his break from the site?

...which is on page 1-2. This doesn't even need commenting. If DDJ is this good at creating things out of nothing he should consider taking up a career as a magician. And then on top of that he uses a pet peeve to justify a scum case?

i thought your vote/unvote there in rvs were kinda townie, as i explained previously.

i disagree with ddj's (buj's) reasoning for it being a reason to scumread you, but i do think that it's entirely possible to find things to read in rvs to get the game moving.

so, while yes it's reachy, i liked how buj approached it and started forming reads; i don't really mind reachy reads in rvs; that was the main post i liked from ddj

==

Cheeky seem too...go with the flow. Course she may normally be like this.

Vote Cheeky

i mean why do you think it's scum-indicative for her to go with the flow?

i don't really like that you use it as a reason to vote her but then kinda handwave how much validity the point has by saying she just may normally be like this

==

Mainly my reason for saying it. but before somebody takes it out of context, I just didn't like the posts.

i'm not entirely following what you odn't like here

==

{Gamma Emerald, joges}
{Trivium, Thor, Milk}
{Skitter, A50, Lady, Robert}
{}
{DLA or DDJ, Soviet}

i feel pretty decent about town!dla for this stage of the game actually; why is he on your bottom tier?

can you talk about how you're reading gamma? i'm awful at reading him and i don't feel like he's done much ai yet

==

i'm not really feeling town!you yet; you feel kinda weird for you

we have time, I'm not feeling normal in this game for some reason

fair enough, fair enough; i can give it some more time; more kinda just like noting it for myself now

[skitter30]

eh, let's go here for now

VOTE: robert

[skitter30]

hey joges, how much mafia experience do you have?

==

POSTS, NOT HER. read....

i'm not following the distinction you're drawing; can you explain again please?

==

Scum!Thor is good at fabricating a case from scratch and making it look like a good case to someone skimming the thread

i don't think ti's correct to wave away this entire thing by saying he's building something out of nothing and calling him scum for it - he's right, you are being kinda hedgy as to giving info that could help sort this out

however, because of the ongoing game rule, i'm not sure if it's *scummy* of you to have not given that information in this context; i'm not sure where exactly the line is. i think it's fine for thor to go check other games, but i'm more iffy about ongoing games obviously informing pushes in this game (ie if you gave your alts and he continued pushing you .... it could kinda indicate that he found something incriminatory, and if he drops it, it could kinda indicate that he found something expulcatory; i feel like actually giving the alts removes some of the ambiguity as to whether or not thor's push stems from information from other games)

i don't know if this line of questioning should like actually be explored in thread because it does get into a bit of a grey area imo, but i don't thinkn it's an inherently unreasonable or baseless push and, if ongoing games weren't a thing, should be probed in greater detail

what i find more concerning is that you're calling thor scum for this push - it kinda feels like you're trying to discredit pushes form him in this direction by calling him scum for it, and by saying his pushes are not based on anything

==

A50 why on earth would you soft so early?

i've played probably like ~10 games with him? and he softs ridiculously often super early on (i offhand can think of like three different exampels?); sometimes for roles he doesn't even have.

i just finished modding a game he was in and in his first post he gunsmith crumbed about 87 times; he was actually a gunsmith and scum!gamma picked up on it immediatley and tried to nk him for it

his logic wrt mechanics baffles me in a general sense

==

Also, are we lynching Robert because he is the original Bond or because his wife loves Austin Powers? What exactly is the case there because I can't see anything AI in his ISO.

overly defensive + bad cheeky vote + very little content

==

Town and I'd bet the game on it.

do tell

==

@skitter:

I can see your point regarding the unvote when you add it to the other posts he made with the apparent carefree attitude. It read differently to me on its own. As for the carefree thing it may not be a town thing depending on meta/personality. I'll need more time to learn about him. Are you saying it out of experience or is it your first game with him also?

Also this isn't AI for you but I've always wanted to ask why you say things like "you don't seem like town you" without elaborating to people. Don't you think it might give scum!them a chance to change it up?

no, first game with him; you're right, it could be a personality thing but i'd need to metadive to check that and i'm not sure if that will be happening any time in the nearish future so i'm kinda sticking with what i see/feel in thread

i also like that he had compared trivium's posting style here to that of his games before his three year break (200) - dla didn't answer me if he had played with him previously, but if he hadn't, i feel like scum doesn't usually go through the effort to metadive this sort of thing at this stage of the game? not to defend a player with a lynchbait-y like playstyle at least, unless they're like literally partners (it looked like he had looked at prior games but i couldn't tell for sure)

and idk? i guess that's my way of indicating that i'm a little suspicious but not enough to lay down a vote and to then maybe start a discussion with the person in question; i don't always know how to articulate what's bothering me exactly and idk just because scum are *aware* that they're pinging someone or acting scummy doesn't mean they can correct for that behavior

==

Mm, I just don't like that you seemingly used the "first" thing to actually justify a serious vote. It just smells.

i've seen him push for things that i consider kinda nai/personality-based (calling 'first', calling pagetops)
but then he was scum there so eh (but it hink he does it as town too and was trying to mimic his towngame)

i'm not sure why you're focusing on the 'first' thing; that wasn't the justification of his vote and he said that was more of a pet peeve than anything else; it feels a little misreppy to me to push him for voting you because you 'firsted' when that isn't really why he voted you

[skitter30]

@Everyone:

If the choice is between me outing an alt or losing a game I will choose the latter. It's not even a guaranteed loss as the town could still win without me (a little but harder, but still very much possible), so the choice is actually for me to out a secret alt or to get lynched, and I certainly will pick the latter.

This is the end of the discussion here. Thank you very much.

i mean i literally just said i wasn't asking you to out an alt; my problem is that you're calling thor scum for 'building a case out of nothing' when i think his line of thought has some merit and is something that i think ought to be pursued in the universe where the ongoing game rule is a thing.

you're creating a dichotomy that doesn't actually, like, exist (ie you're claiming that your only two options here are to out alts or to get lynched when that's not imminently happening) in order to avoid responding to me pointing out that your push on thor seems to be an attempt to discredit him and undermine pushes in that direction

(and this post also seems to be an attempt to shut down this very discussion)

VOTE: almost50

==

{Gamma Emerald, joges, Skitter, DDJ}
{Trivium, Milk, DLA}
{Robert, Thor}
{A50}
{Lady A, Soviet}

can you talk about your milk and lady angel reads please?

==

I've indicated scum on Robert, and town on Darklight and Crocolisk.

Thor why Crocolisk?

The reasoning for and attack on you doesn't seem like particularly brilliant scum play to me and

Crocolisk doesn't strike me as a bad player.

have you played with him before?

==

Let's change it up.. is anyone NOT okay with a robert lynch? Why?

i'm actually getting a little nervous because it's rather quiet and nobody is really objecting to or complaining to this rn

==

I'm not actually down for a lynch yet because a.) I dont see anyone scummy with him and b.) Everyone seems okay with his lynch, like no resistance at all.

i kinda agree with b) but not really with a) - i don't see anyone in particular as being a likely partner, but at the same time, i don't see anyone as being an *unlikely* partner. and i don't like using pre-flip associatives day1 anyways; it seems a little silly to me to defend/push someone based on who their likely partners are when we don't know either ways whether or not they're actually scum in the first place; on day1 i like to push people based on their own merits and once we have a scumflip work on figuring out who the partners may be

also why are you sitting on him if you don't want to lynch him?

[skitter30]

@skitter: I am done talking to you too. I offered my case and provided links, and I can't be arsed babysitting you or spoon feeding you. You go read those games or don't. Up to you.

VOTE: a50

==

Lady A is lurky af and did a wolfy popin when I posted my readslist with her at the bottom. I'd appreciate more votes on the slot.

that wallpost you mean?
huh, i hadn't actually noticed she posted it right after you posted a readslist with her on the bottom

it actually felt pretty good to me gut-wise when i read it at the time. i don't know why tho, and rereading it again now to try to figure it out i'm not getting those good vibes again

i need her to post more before i try to form a read on her i think

==

I like milkcarton's analysis, I don't like crocolisk's focus on low hanging fruit. Just like robert, I don't buy it, and I don't feel it's a genuine idea as much as an argument croc is trying to push.

Also angel/croc lurking but who am I to talk.

this bit feels townie to me

[skitter30]

This felt like a very weird read to me, especially with milk now happy to park his vote on robert.

It feels like TMI. Add in the inconsistency of him voting who he called new town. So I'm a little concerned by the milk townreads as they seem premature and misguided to me.

yeah this was bothering me too; i'm not sure why he's still voting robert if he classifies him as new town

==

What makes you think the pop-in was intentional?

you popping in a few hours after cheeky said that and starting your post with this kinda reinforces the sentiment that you're popping in when people talk about you

when you say 'dda and gamma's posts are bugging you', who is dda? why do the posts of these players bug you? why aren't you voting rn?

==

unvote

Vote A50

I have to agree. Previous games can be used as experience, but seems like your trying to off Thor early here while not provided much content to begin with. Your proving you want to be just a distraction.

this feels kinda bandwagon-y and like you're looking for a place to put your vote after your cheeky vote was scrutinized and since you're one of the leading wagons.

like all of your votes are bad and voting with you is low-key making me uncomfortable

==

I kinda think scum's got this by the nuts. T

here are several slots that never got questioned and never been put in the spotlight, and some that have been brought to light and their wagons were resisted strongly.

UNVOTE:

Just so as I don't get blamed for it post-game.

give specifics please. this is incredibly vague and talking about things in broad strokes like this makes it seem like you're saying something useful but when you think about it, you're not actually saying anything in particular

the self-vote actually felt a little townie to me; it feels ate-y in a way that i've seen town!a50 do when he gets frustrated with people for not understanding his setup theorizing/crumbing/whatever

i also don't like voting with robert rn

i also think that the fact that he's provided little content but has overly focused on the nk thing is +scum for him, as is his thor push and his refusal to talk about it

@a50 i'm pretty good at soritng you when you like engage with the game and actually talk to me, so if you could like tell me where you're at and what you're thinking about the game and who your scumreads are that would be kinda helpful.

i feel like i'm trying to reach out here and understand where you're going with the thor thing but you shut me down. like when you're town and post in a way that i can read i can read you super well super easily but you aren't really doing that here rn, so like, if you're town be townie in a way i can read

[skitter30]

ok, i think it'll take me more than one post to catchup; sorry, was busy this weekend

@Skitter

DDA is apparently a fusion of DDJ and DLA, I specifically meant DLA there. DLA's iso consists of mostly bandwagon votes and seemingly just trying to float by. The Almost vote was especially bad considering they admitted not knowing why Almost was being voted in the first place. Gamma's a gut read.

Also, I'm voting Robert.

i disagree; i think scum would be more self-conscious about not knowing why they're voting someone

==

hey

hey

we should probably hang out in real-time sometime on d2... you're not doing those things town you does..

sure; it's still early and you have a pretty good track record of reading me as the game progresses so i'm sure you'll figure it out in due time

==

A50 should have been lynched for this post. This is in no way a refutation to Thor’s argument.

It serves to
1) Dodge the question
2) Throw suspicion on someone who suspects him and
3) Equate any insightful play on Thor’s part with his scum meta

It’s playing on town paranoia, avoiding discussing the actual substance of the argument, and confounding the issue.

pretty much
and when i pointed this out to him did an ate-y thing to avoid answering me

==

I think I can lynch Almost50 but for the record I would like my distaste towards a slot to be noted

I have cleared my use of size 300 voting with BuJ and though it is in bad taste he has given me permission

VOTE: Trivium

big vote from a big duck

these posts feel really wrong from you tonally

i dont' know why

but they don't feel like town!you; they feel i don't even know the right word - kinda bravado-y and like not-caring-y and over-dramatic-y. which i know you do as town as well but it reads as kinda insincere and just feels kinda wrong

bujaber is townie af imo tho

i'm going to stick you lot in the town pile for now i think because bujaber is a pretty strong read and the things that are bothering me rn about you you do as town too

==

Solid Town: DDJ + CT
Likely Town: LA + skitter + Trivium
Null: milky + joges + Robert + DLA
Scummy: Gamma + Thor + Lol

why are you townreading me?

also why are you townreading trivium?

also can you like explain the bottom tier? also all three of them are voting you ....

==

How? Its day 1. How am I cautious? A50 been getting on my nerves since he gotten here, and would of voted him if he had 0 votes on him at that time.

what's the difference between having 0 votes on him and having (i think) 4 votes on him when you voted him?

==

Did you not see DDJ's post or did you ignore it?

i saw it, and was explaining that that i have seen him do this sort of thing before

==

Scum:
soviet
gamma

talk about these? what don't you like about gamma?

also reading on to your next post i don't entirely understand why you're townreading a50 in spite of all of his bad posts

also did you make this readslist before or after you repped in?

i think its kinda NAI since i kinda read all of this before i knew who i was replacing into and i just copied the list straight over from notepad and forgot

yeah ok this is hwere i was going with that ^^^ if you made the readslist before you repped in i odn't think that forgetting your own slot is really ai; i think you just forgot which slot in particular you replaced

==

It happens if you copy paste, but I see what you are saying. I dont think it's obvious and considering trivium is who they replaced, I dont like the trust in that read.
Before I forget UNVOTE: (sorry jingle)

why are you unvoting robert here?

==

i dont want to use meta because that seems disingenuous if i can use meta on people i played with on my other accounts but those same people cant use it on me because this is an alt.

this feels kinda townie to me

==

skitter is always this stupid regarding me. EVERYTIME you don't understand, and EVERYTIME you understand after the fact, yet YOU NEVER LEARN. STOP FUCKING MESSING WITH MY D1 PLANS.

i mean, ok

i said i wasn't reading too much into the no nk thing because it was prob you either crumbing in some strange way (and if you're town here, hey look - i was right), which is why i wasn't really worrying/caring about it too much at that point

my problem is more how you tried to discredit thor's push on you, and when pressured, proceeded to call thor scum and are attempting to shut down or divert discussion into that read; i've repeatedly tried to reach out to you to try to understand what you're thinking and you keep refusing to respond or to engage with me or to explain your reads - i find this *much* more problematic than the nk thing

i don't entirely understand how trying to understand your thor read is 'fucking messing with your day1 plans', and i think it's disingenuous to portray my attempt to sort you this way

normally i'd let the nks sort through a day1 pr claim like this but like .... you've claimed something that isn't going to be resolved that way any time soon unless you're like shot-limited; i'm not sure i trust nks to resolve you here

i'm stopping this post here since this is getting kinda long + i gotta do some things irl; i'll continue later tonight

[skitter30]

Oh okay so you did crumb.

Still don’t think you’re town here. Drawing this much attention and controversy to yourself makes no sense.

Why not just play a strong town game and draw the night kill?

i've seen him crumb using *bizarre* logic multiple times as town; the crumbing itsel fi don't find scummy *for him* even if it's not something i would do

(like, for example, he was a town gunsmith in the game i just finsihed modding and for reasons beyond me gunsmith-crumbed about 87 times in his first post, which was immediately noticable to anyone who'd played with him a few times before, including scum!gamma, who tried to nk him for it)

==

You weren't in the game. Had I known you would replace in I would have taken measure to ensure even someone with 30 IQ would understand and I would probably have planned it a different way. Sorry for not foreseeing YOU would join the game.

again, i kinda guessed where you were going with the crumb and i don't inherently have a problem with how you chose to do it, but rather how you responded to pressure after the fact, and how you tried to shut down discussion of your reads - even now you're insulting people who are trying to understand why you did what you did instead of trying to help them understand your thought process

==

They don’t constantly, blatantly softclaim a role to intimidate people out of voting then.

i *think* the logic is that he was trying to soft a pr to try to eat an nk

==

I'm not okay with hammer. Credible or not, lynching a pr claim day is scum beneficial. Pls no

i kinda don't like lynching pr claims day1 in games this size, because they tend to be sorted via nks, but like, he claimed something that prob won't be resolved that way so ...

This is just wrong. VOTE: lolwagon

this is very surface level - you're saying that lolwagons is scummy for pushing a pr-claim day1 - but you're ignoring the broader context that a50 is not really townie in a holistic sense

you went from pushing a50 to hard-defending him when he got intent and voting someone pushing him. i think that such a the 180 either comes from town or scum who is partners with a50 (which imo should not be ruled out); i don't think scum switches reads like that so abruptly unless i'ts on a partner; there's no reason to defend someone so strongly imo as scum just as they're given intent; i don't think he can expect to get towncred here for an a50 town!flip based on how he was pushing him at daystart

==

It's not reasonable to expect him to vote for anyone while he's ACTIVELY BEING LYNCHED

uh if he's town and is about to be lynched he should be pointing out where he thinks scum is before that happens

==

this is incredibly townie imo

==

I feel the A50 lynch wagon has gain so much momentem so quickly, makes me nervous. While he's annoying I'm not sure he's for sure scum.

Unvote

How come all your votes only seem to follow along with what the last several votes have been?

popping in without really talking about anything that has happened wrt a50 is kinda meh

==

I'll be in transit for like 24hrs so y'know, activity will be hit and miss and I'll be tired and angery

i hope you had a good trip home

==

With two people questioning this stance I have to counter ask though - are either of you reading him as having poor play/have played with him before and expect poor play?

(i think you meant to direct this towards me)

i've not played with him before, and i haven't seen him around on-site before either i'm pretty sure, so i was wondering if you'd had some prior experience with him

also his push on cheeky was kinda bad and just like ... very out of tune with the gamestate (ie his vote on her was bad and pushing her for 'voteparking on lynchbait' when she had switched her vote fairly frequently up until that point seemed kinda oblivious and like didn't really 'match' with what happened in the game thus far).

not having seen him around before + him making that sort of push made me think he might not particularly experienced player

==

So you plan to scumhunt by intentionally ignoring information you possess and hamstringing town's scumhunting efforts?

i don't really like this

i mean, yes, by not outing his alt he's preventing people from like meta-diving him, but i don't think he's doing it with like the intent to deliberately make things harder for other players. or, more accurately, he *is* making it harder for other players to metadive him, but i don't think he has nefarious intent in doing so, but rather that he wants to try out a new playstyle and doesn't want other games to be associated with this one; i've seen lots and lots of players do this and since the decision to play on an alt is usually made before receiving a role pm i don't think it's much ai

like i don't really get the vibe that he was thinking: 'i'm going to use my alt to prevent people from meta-diving me and then use that as an excuse not to meta-dive other people'
but more like: 'i don't really think it's right/fair for me to use a tool on other players that i'm not allowing other players to use on me', which feels pretty townie to me; this feels like a weird thought process for scum to have imo

and i feel like by characterizing this as 'hamstringing town's scumhunting efforts' you're framing this thought-process in a more negative light than i think it deserves

So...again, to be clear, you are claiming that you're intentionally playing like you're dumb to avoid using knowledge you absolutely possess?
Or, are you using your meta knowledge and then lying about it if you present a case?

Neither situation sounds particularly helpful to town, so it annoys me if either is what you're doing.

ok reading this i think i may not have understood you correctly above, and that you may have more meant - by not utilizing meta-info he may have he's playing suboptimally?

i mean i guess? but even if it's suboptimal i feel like the sentiment comes from town

(i read 'hamstringing town's scumhunting efforts' more like you were saying that he was making things difficult for town by not letting people metadive him)

==

coming back to give a more detailed answer than just ok and uhh

And then another 1-2 scum in {thor/gamma/omochao, trivium}

i am trivium btw
dw i forgot too

Why did you switch accounts
The fact you did that honestly grosses me the fuck out. Like I can think of a couple reasons why, all of them are shitty and not pro-town.
VOTE: Omochao

he's saying that he's the new trivium (ie he replaced that slot), and that he keeps forgetting who he replaced, not that he *is* trivium-who-decided-to-change-accounts

i think gamma misreading things like this is weakly +town for him

[skitter30]

yay i'm caught up
i'm happy with my a50 vote

[skitter30]

as soon as soviet got in he started pressuring cheeky for really dumb reasons and then backed down really quickly in a way that made me feel like he wasnt actually pressuring cheeky to get a read, but instead just wanted to pressure for the sake of it.

yeah it kinda felt to me like he was trying to push her to like see what he could get to stick; much of what he was saying was kinda baseless and it kinda felt like he picked a fight that he backed away from pretty fast when people disagreed or pressured him for it

i kinda like lolwagons tho

and i was asking about gamma because i'm awful at reading him so when other people have strong reads on him i like to try to understand what's prompting the read

Please now describe how your above answers translate into helping town find scum.
Is that kind and gentle enough for you to not dodge?

yeah ok i think i misread what you said the first time

but again, i think that while it may be suboptimal on some theoretical level not to utilize every tool he has, i think it's kinda not right to frame this as him being anti-town - he's trying to change his playstyle; i don't think he's like purposefully trying to obfuscate or make things complicated for other people beyond not outing his main

like i guess i'm thinking about past games and like the closest example of scum using this as a tactic in a game is in a game i was in about a year ago - alisae repped in on a roleplaying alt and used 'roleplaying' as an excuse to avoid doing like ... anything, and to make their posts purposefully abstruse and obtuse and hard to understand in the name of roleplaying, and when someone pointed out that they were purposefully making their posts hard to read they omgus-lynched them

but omachao isn't really doing that - i think he's actively trying to sort people, and although he isn't necessarily using every tool at his disposal, i think he's doing it to try to expand his towngame in a holistic sense

i don't really view this as being anti-town tbh; like i feel like you're making a point in an abstract/rhetoric-y sense that doesn't really match up with the fact that in practice sometimes people just change their playstyle for whatever reason

[skitter30]

i didn't really get the vibe that it was pre-mediated, but more like he dropped it when she pushed back

[skitter30]

Changing your playstyle is fine.
Ignoring meta knowledge that you claim provides good reads is odd - he should be trying to change his ability to describe cases, not give up on a technique that he claims works. That is strange logic, and unhelpful to our scumhunting efforts today. If he wants to play around with a universe sans meta there's a thing called the Newbie queue if he's really convinced that's the only way to develop this new style.

i think that this argument is low-key absurd and mostly rhetorical and is pushing him for something that's not inherently ai (ie playing on an alt to change his playsytle is presumably something he chose to do before he repped in given that he presumably had to ask to rep-in on this account)

i mean, sure, it's suboptimal. it might even be anti-town. but i don't think it's scummy; anti-town and scummy are not at all th same thing. and suggesting that he ought to be sent to the newbie queue because he wants to play without meta is ridiculous imo.

i think that you're pushing him for something that's like suboptimal/bad/anti-town in like a theoretical/rhetorical sense ('he's playing suboptimally and being anti-town!!!!1!!') but not in an actual/practical sense. ie the scummiest way you can spin this rn is: he isn't using all the information at his disposal - and that's not an inherently scummy thing to do? and if he's scum here, like why even bring this up in the first place; it's easier to just like ignore meta and not even bring it up if he's playing on an alt and people don't know that he such meta in the first place.

like i feel ike you're trying to spin this to make him look bad and to frame him negatively when nothing he's done is actually scummy (ie you can't even explain why it's scummy outside of the abstract notion of 'not using all of the information at his disposal and is harming town's collective scumhunting efforts' which like *sounds* bad in a rhetorical sense but like isn't actually scummy)

I'm trying to develop a read on you, having you admit to an excuse to ignore info you have reads as scummy to me.

and like i don't get why this reads as scummy and not 'suboptimal/anti-town' like you were pushing before?

==

The commuter claim is probably the scummiest thing in his ISO. That's not what makes him town. His reactions do. I think after he explained everything to all of us, it should be pretty obvious in hindsight that his play fits with him trying a gambit, that failed miserably, that then frustrated him because gambits are a huge factor in his enjoyment (I think) and he realized it was actually going to get him lynched, and he didn't want to get lynched without at least trying to protect himself.

The only thing that might make sense is if his slip was actually an unintended scumslip. But I can't imagine how anyone could make a mistake like that. How do you go into a game find out it's SECRETLY a nightless game and on the first post you make you announce it to everyone? And then his response to being 'caught' is to mention being overgamed and his alt is playing a nightless game, instead of coming up with pretty much any better explanation?

i was kinda annoyed with a50 for *reasons* last week; his playstyle has been kinda frustrating me and annoying me a lot more recently. i was losing patience with his gambits and i think that colored how i viewed the whole situation and why i looked at it so negatively; i was especially annoyed that i tried to reach out to him a few times to try to understand what he was doing and he kinda like rebuffed me

but going back and looking at it in hindsight, yeah, if the game was actually like nightless and he's scum here and *knows* that, lolslipping that in his first post in the game is like incredibly dumb and not something i think he would do; nor would he like awkwardly call attention to it in an attempt to try to cover it up; i think he's smarter than that.

UNVOTE:

==

I just realized 'Everything is the game' would be a bad ass title from the Fairy.

Posts like this: ones less focused on playing the game and more focused on having a good time. I guess I should temper my read strength because until I get a good sample this method is partly word-of-mouth but I feel good about it still

i think this is +town for gamma, specifically going back to a post from much earlier in the game that kinda stuck with him to explain his read in the now; when he was scum in the game i modded that ended a few weeks ago, he was much more in-the-present and reactionary to things as they happened; he didn't really have any deep-held beliefs from days/weeks past that colored his reads in the present like he does with his thor read here

Bro

I replaced Soviet

He had 8 posts
I have 51 posts

Are you reading the game or

i think he's doing this thing recently where he's changing his playstyle and reading people more like in depth in order to form more comprehensive opinions (see: shadd's coalition in the micro queue; midway through day1 he read went back to the beginning of the game and read like four pages at a time and assigned 'scumminess/towniness' points to each post and his final read was the net value of the points); it's annoying and time-consuming but i think he'll eventually catch up with opinions on everyone

(and iirc he forgot htat people had repped out there too while he was doing the point-value)

also he isn't scum with you imo

also the emotional reaction is +town for gamma imo too

p-edit: lolwagons look at this and the ensuing convo from that game:

Spoiler:

Ok so I’m trying something based on a past re-reading method I did, where I scanned every post and formed an opinion on each one. Before I just did it for suspects because the game was farther along, but here I’m doing it for everyone.
My current thoughts as of reading page 1:
Yuriko kinda towny
TDW towny
Skitter back and forth
NSG kinda scummy
Null on all others

yuriko had flaked out already at that point and wasn't like an active player in the game

As for my reads, I posted what I thought of page 1 so you can go there to see where I’m about at rn

^^^ posted on like p14; he was town

[skitter30]

1. If it's suboptimal and might be anti-town (it is) then what should I suggest? That he not be sub-optimal and anti-town? Oooh, or maybe that by going to the newbie queue he could freely reinvent his playstyle away from people that he would have to ignore meta on (thus removing the anti-town stank from his play) if that was his goal. Strange, it's almost like if you read it in Morgan Freeman's voice my suggestion is helpful and thoughtful as opposed to an insult.

2. Setting up an excuse to not use info is scummy. If you don't think that's true then...well, I disagree with you, but I hardly find it a shocking enough statement to question me on. He openly claimed that what he was doing when I forced him to clarify.

3. I shifted from anti-town to scummy after I got him to clarify what he was doing.

4. I'm not actually pushing him, I'm trying to push A50.

Anything I miss?

VOTE: thor

you can't really describe why what he's doing as scummy outside of an abstract/theoretical 'not using all of his information so he's being anti-town' and i believe that you're decent enough at this game to recognize that there's a distinction between anti-town and scummy and that just because someone is not playign optimally (even intentionally so!) doesn't make them scum. and this has already been pointed out but wrt point 2: like the easy way to avoid using this info if he's scum and it's like inconvenient ... is just not to mention he has this meta? like if the motivation you're ascribing to him is setting up an excuse to avoid using it, he could have just sidestepped this entire problem by not acknowledging that the meta exists, since it is an alt.

like you can't even come up with a scummy motivation for why he might do that beyond 'not utilizing all of his information and hampering town's collective scumhunting efforts' and that's like - so what? why is that scummy?

and if you're not pushing him for this like why are we having this conversation even?

also like you said something along the lines of that you're doing this to collect info in case you ever decide to push him in the future:

So the point is, I'll use this to develop a case on you if I decide you need to get lynched.

like i've said this already but you're scoring rhetorical points against him that dont' actually translate to scummy actions (i know you're saying that you disagree and that you think 'withholding information and not utilizing every tool at his disposal' is scummy', but no, it isn't, and i don't really believe that you believe this in anything other than an abstract/rhetorical sense) that you might later use to try to get him lynched.

==

Here's a game for you skitter;

Quote the last thing A50 posted that looks like sorting/scumhunting to you.
Then ask yourself why the wagon on him is not legit.

oh yeah i def agree that he isn't scumhunting; i pointed this out a few times earlier in the game.

and when he *does* scumhunt i can usually identify it as being from town!him pretty fast (like within a couple of posts even)

but i'm starting to learn that even when he's town, he might just decide not to, especially if he's doing a gambit or frustrated with the game for whatever reason; he usually gets over it at some point. if he like never starts scumhunting, than yeah, he's just scum here, but it could take him a bit to get into that groove as town.

idk we can give him a bit imo, like a day or two. he absolutely must be resolved before lylo tho.

==

In schadd’s game I was aware of replacement and didn’t care

oh sorry, i thought you hadn't noticed them yet

==

lady angel is still kinda bad

==

I agree with gamma, but would add with my experience with him, he's been usually very aggressive. His post seem almost like a differen't person this game then the other game.....The problem is I don't fully know his alignment in the other game, so I can't really make a call on that. But It bothers me and will probably bother me till I know his role in both games tbh.

uh don't talk about ongoing games

==

Omo keeps going back to thor, which makes me think he might like the lack of scumhunting? I think that's more speculative than the solid antitown pushes that he can claim weren't actual pushes that thors done.

what do you mean by this?

(i'm a she btw)

Omochao, replacing Trivium (7)

or i guess just like explain this read again because i'm not following the above quote
if thor flips scum do you think omachao is town?

[skitter30]

@Skitter - why are we discussing this? Because you and him keep asking me why I don't like what he's doing, to then advance that to calling me scummy for calling that scummy when I'm not actually basing a case on it is just so boneheaded as to leave me dead inside. If that bothers you why aren't you rasing hell about Creature's case on me, or Milk's "case" on me? Like, if I'm worth voting over this shouldn't they be? What's with the double standard?

creature isn't in this game
i'm aware that you said you aren't pushing him at present for this. you did, however, say that you were having this convo in the event you ever decided you wanted to lynch him so that you could build your case -> you're preparing for a potential push in the future

he hasn't done anything scummy. i don't believe you think he's done anything scummy; you can't describe how it's anti-town in anything but a theoretical sense. i think your'e using rhetoric to make him look bad to justify a push on him later if you ever decide to do so; your whole convo with him reeks of an agenda you've already admitted to.

we've had a similar convo before, in a different game. you're not actually bad enough at this game to seriously believe that using an alt to try out a playstyle that doesn't incorporate meta into reads is scum-indicative, no matter how much you'd like to label 'ignoring information' as being anti-town. we've gone in circles a few times already but like you literally can't give it scum-motivation beyond 'hampering town's collective ability to scumhunt,' and each time i've challenged you on this point you've ignored me. and i believe you know just as well as i do that this isn't actually scum-indicative, even if it's convenient for you to call it so.

that's why i'm not dropping this - i think your argument is absurd and i don't think you actually believe it, but rather that you're using it to get in those rhetorical points if you ever decide to lynch omachao

==

I'm pretty behind sorry. I'll try and be here d2 if I'm still alive.
Skitter is a wolf

~ tw

do tell

==

dont really like this thor wave considering when i voted thor earlier this kind of wagon didnt happen, and nothing

really

new happened since then

in other words a sudden counter-wagon to milk came up 3 days before deadline for ostensibly no reason

i initially thought i might understand where he's going with this if i continued talking to him, but eventually i realized that it was futile and that i was going around in circles and that he wasn't actually addressing anything i said, and the more i talked to him the more ridiculous his commitment to this became - i don't think he actually believes most of what he's been espousing in this convo

==

So many replacements....its odd.

in what sense?

==

Hi all

I will catch up later today

hello!

==

I could vote Lady or Thor.

yeah i'd switch to lady too if necessary

[skitter30]

yeah i agree but we're getting close to deadline so i'm just saying where i would vote if necessary
would much prefer thor tho

[skitter30]

i think dla's hammer was god-awful given robert's flip, and i think i want to start there for now

VOTE: darklighta

scum on wagon are something like darklighta > milk >> omochao = flubber > a50
offwagon something like joges >> lady angel > gamma >>> cheeky = ddj

i skimmed robert's iso; there isn't much content there but i think that he is probably not scum with cheeky or a50

cheeky because of his 'voting her for going with the flow' push; kinda felt more to me like he was voting an active player because she was kinda there, but he didn't have any real reason for it. it didn't feel like the sort of vote you'd lay on a partner imo

a50 because he initially wrote off his posts as being 'jester-y' or a 'distraction' and as not being worth pushing him over, but when the wagon heated up he decided to jump on for rather flimsy reasons, at least in part because a50's posts were annoying him. Not sure he'd sit on a partner as his wagon was building just because he found his posts annoying really, feels more like a convenient place for him to push.

i think i'm at town!a50 now

==

idk what happened to the nk but the first thing that comes to mind is that scum may have tried to shoot a50? not sure why they'd have tried that tho unless they thought he was bluffing wrt the commuting thing.

(I didn't commute, but how would anyone else know that I didn't and wasn't shot?)

nm then

==

That’s a very good flip. Anyone have reason to

not

lynch off Thor’s wagon today?

I don't like limiting ourselves to

options when there's no way yet to know 100% it had any scum on it.

But I would be interested in maybe seeing thoughts from people about who they feel on that wagon is most likely to be scum. But I do not like trying to limit ourselves to only the votes on Thor's wagon.

i mean, really. if scum are all offwagon where do you think there are exactly?
offwagon is: you, lady angel, cheeky, ddj, gmma, and thor. thor's dead. from your pov you're town, so you're looking at two scum in {lady angel/cheeky/ddj/gamma} if no scum were on wagon, and i think it's fairly unlikely that there's two scum in that group; i'm fairly strongly townreading cheeky/ddj and a scumteam of gamma/lady angel does not feel particularly likely to me.

also given that robert was the cw i think it's a fairly safe assumption that one, if not both, scum were on the thor wagon.

==

As for why DLA specifically, he popped in to bandwagon Milk, then the next gameplay-related post was Thor voting Milk, his counterwagon. DLA instantly hops on the Thor wagon for Thor's post sounding "fake", and gets Thor lynched. The reasoning there was awful (what made Thor's post sound fake?), and the low time between DLA's two votes makes it seem like he never intended to seriously lynch Milk and just wanted Thor to post and then lynch that.

@A50 I mean the end of day 1, which went something like this:

The hop-on hop-off vote of Milk into a hammer for bad reasoning feels suspect.

i think this is mildly +town for lady angel, for confusing milk with robert and thinking that milk was thor's cw at eod yesterday; scum don't usually forget the names of their partners that got shot overnight after being a cw.

==

@skitter when are you free to jam for a bit?
I need to catch up & also want to make sure i get my read on you right; would appreciate a catchup buddy

~ tw

i'm around (i know you aren't rn) but i'm going to be honest and say my motivation for mafia is waxing and waning quite a lot rn and idk if i'll have motivation for this even later today or tomorrow; idk how much of a help i'll be wrt you catching up but i can try

i'm aware that i've not really towntold for me yet; i'm having a really hard time getting into this game and feel very out-of-sync-y

==

lynching between {milk, skitter} seems good for today. lady angel is good pick for scum off wagon for staying on Robert for so long, but she's also lurking so it's hard to make that argument.

VOTE: milkcarton

hi let's talk about this

==

Trivium's slot

remind me what you don't like about this slot again?

[skitter30]

Can I get a why behind these votes for me? I dont like that ddj, cheeky. And imo are voting as a block with identical scumreads. Also, my theory was wrong

i mean, are you really insinuating that cheeky and ddj are scum together because they have identical scumreads? (i'm not even sure i agree with that assumption in the first place, but whatever) How often do you see scum actually pushing an identical agenda?

I'm for a lucky scum right now though tbh so VOTE: dla

UNVOTE:

==

@skitter: the timing of your vote felt weird. we can dig deeper when I'm not on a phone. I can be convinced on dla.

ok hmu when you're off of mobile; i hate phone-posting too
also you started off the day saying that you wanted to push in {me/milk} but at the time of this post we were both voting dla so it feels a little weird to me that you're telling me you can be convinced to vote there.

==

remind me what you don't like about this slot again?

I actually twisted Buj's arm on this slot a bit when trivium was in it and just after this new person rep'd in -- we should probably have a decent jam about it & get back to you about what was SCUMTELLING and why I'm turning around on it.

also I'm really sorry to hear your WIM is low. lmk if there's any way I can help you get more into this game. I think yiu know it's mostly out of of fear of your scumgame thwt I see infrequently posting wallpostibg skitter asking lots of questions with few conclusions and go like "asdfghjkl;'scum" but you're also like in the top tier of people I don't want to mislynch

/shameless AtE

i didn't like trivium much or how he pushed people for 'trying too hard' to get the game out of rvs, or how he brushed off the thor/a50 argument as tvt.

omochao yesterday i was tending town on him because i agreed with most of what he was saying during the thor-alt-argument thing but i'm not loving his lynchpool today.

idk. to use your colloquialism, my wim is not super high rn and i'm having a bit of an off game, if that wasn't apparent. i can understand why you're concerned rn because i don't think i've really cleared that bar of towniness that you're looking for yet but i'm kinda having trouble figuring out how to hit my groove here.

i think this most likely comes from town!you; scum!you just throws out a townread on me pretty much always i think and tries to pocket me and gets 'paranoid' for a few minutes to add realism and then drops it; you've been kinda consistent about this for a while now

i kinda wish we could have a game where we could be on the same page for once tho

{CT, GE}

also where's your gamma read stemming from? there was some bits i liked day1 (the effort-posting was reminicent of coaltion 2.0) but mostly when i look at his posts i just have like no ai thoughts; idk how to read him really.

==

I like heavily scumread Joges d1 but I'm getting really lukewarm on this read and I think the only real... concern right now is that the gamestate is consistent with lurking scum imo.

why does he not fit the criteria for lurking scum?

==

I mirror a lot of her thoughts in handling the thor wagon.

In addition, she is incredibly transparent and to my knowledge has a meta where she struggles with that as scum.

I think the fact that nobody has really tried casing her is also telling.

uh what does 'transparent' mean in this context? unless i'm forgetting something i don't think i've played with you in like a year (and i was town in both of those) and i don't know what meta you're basing this on?

==

VOTE: DLA

I was hoping he'd have posted by now before I voted, maybe he needs more pressure?

i hate like almost every vote on this wagon except for maybe like cheeky's.

==

Is that the most of what bothers you about my comment on skitter? My big issue wasn't whether or not skitter was town, but that omochao seems to be picking random people off the thor wagon to consider for lynch.

yeah i was kinda getting that vibe too; he started off with {me/milk} but said he could consider dla as that wagon heated up; it feels a bit like he wants to push on the thor wagon but he doens't particularly care *who* on that wagon is getting pushed.

[skitter30]

i mean i didn't entirely get the vibe that he was the sort of player who really thought of the game in terms of optics tbh

[skitter30]

hello i know i've been awful these last two days, sorry

i've finally finally finally gotten my wim and motivation back after some irl stuff and i'm ready to start efforting this

tbqh most of my thoughts wrt this game are kinda a blur so i feel like i'm kinda starting from scratch; i still think ddj is prob town. maybe cheeky too. milk is kinda scummy. lady angel too.

in my last post i noted that the dla lynch was quite awful; the game stalled there for a while and it felt like scum were kinda waiting for that lynch to happen, if that makes sense?

things i want to do:
1. look at how the dla wagon formed, and check the overlap between that lynch and the thor lynch
2. look at associatives with joges and robert

also whoever the vig is they're killing it (no pun intended )
the lack of an nk these past two nights is ... rather odd to say the least.

[skitter30]

DarkLightA: (6) joges (871), themilkcartonkid (877), CheekyTeeky (906), Lady Angel (909), Flubbernugget (984), DuckDuckJab (986),

ok so joges sat on this like forever, pretty much the whole dayphase it looked like

I'm for a lucky scum right now though tbh so VOTE: dla

this is an awful vote, especially since the reasoning used was 'lurky scum' and dla appeared later and was not really lurking at that point, but didnt' reconsider his vote at all.

VOTE: DLA

Let's get the day done so I can take a Closer look tomorrow. Still think Flubber's eod was awful.

cheeky, did you primarily vote dla as policy? why'd you move off of flubber here? what did you think about flubber joining the wagon?

VOTE: DLA

I was hoping he'd have posted by now before I voted, maybe he needs more pressure?

bad for the same reasons milk's was bad - it's basically a pressure vote to get him to post and she didn't have much af a reaction wrt dla's posting or his explanation for the hammer once he did post, but instead just kinda sat on the vote.

VOTE: DarkLightA

flubber did you just vote him to end the day here? you never really mentioned dla before this post and your main objections to the lynch seemed to be that you didn't want the day to end before you had time to like catch-up and interact with people; were you scumreading him otherwise?

I don't care at the moment.
I said I will hammer if it got to L-1 again for a reason, and I'll share my analysis when the time is right. (Factoring in the flip snd NK)

do tell. i'm assuming that bujaber is the one who hammered here? bujaber how are you reading flubber?

OK.. so we didn't end the day when we should have. What exactly did we gain from it? Seriously. What happened between then and now that advanced the game, improved its status and we couldn't have done without?

@DDJ: You think Scum!
Flubber doesn't know the vote count? I'd say it's the other way around.. i.e. Flubber is likely scum who is faking a hammer on his p. If DLA somehow flips Town I'd say Flubber is most likely Town too.

a50 was pushing it too, but i'm not sure scum!him notes that he'd townread flubber in twiglihgt upon a greenflip; feels like prematurely limiting his lynchpool if he knows that dla would flip town, especially on the heels of ddj saying they'd push flubber today if dla flips town; i could see scum!a50 saying this if he's partners with flubber but otherwise not really

==

other assorted thoughts while rereading through yesterday:
-> i think dla was right and that scum were kinda setting him up for the lynch based on the day1 hammer; last scum is imo prob in the people supporting the dla lynch; gamma is +town for protesting the lynch in order to question joges

-> cheeky, what's your thoughts on gamma after the joges flip?

-> joges being willing to sheep lady angel is kinda ??? bad.

[skitter30]

So I have some info. I am jailkeeper and I've protected cheeky for the last two nights. The first night I thought "did I seriously save the nk?" But I blocked her last night to check. Since there was no kill, one of two things happened: she was the target of an nk twice in a row after failing the first time, or she is scum. I dont think I'm that lucky.

i guess this explanation for the missing nks doesn't sit that well with me - if cheeky is scum and tried to do the nk n1, why would scum choose her to do it again n2 given the fact that it got blocked somehow n1? joges was still alive at this point. and if cheeky is town who got saved n1, why would scum try to nk her again n2 given that it got blocked somehow n1?

i'm also not entirely following why you think she's scum-who-failed-to-kill-twice (ie as opposed to town-who-didn't-get-killed twice)

i can't help but wonder if this is the last scum trying to squeak by another day. but if you're last scum here, you're either going to have to:
a) not nk in order to substantiate your claim (ie and push off endgame while avoiding getting lynched)
b) nk and explain why scum didn't nk you

and it's kinda boxing yourself in

given that, i guess i'm fine leaving this in the absence of another explanation for what happened to the nks but i'm a little skeptical

and ngl in this gamestate i'm a little surprised that scum would have tried to nk cheeky twice, and not tried to kill like ddj or something

==

@a50 - how much experience does cheeky have with you?
also why are you townreading flubber?

==

Would a massclaim today be bad?

we should prob let the vig do their thing; they seem to be doing pretty well thus far
also i guess jk + vig make some amount of sense together - they're both fairly strong prs individually that like anti-sync with each other because jk can protect the vig but also neutralizes them at the same time; so it's like giving town power but like not enough to become follow-the-cop or anything

==

My vote is still on you until I hear from ducky and skitter, as much as I hate it bc they have sred me, they are my trs atm. Although +town for not 1v1ing me(?) @DDJ could you explain 1013 for me? Maybe elaborate more?

idk i'm still a little skeptical of you and your part in both of the past lynches. i guess i'm a little nervous that you're using the claim as a get-out-of-jail free card given that you were under a fair amount of pressure but like i don't think it particularly makes much sense coming from last scum and there isn't another explanation for the lack of nks at this point so; also not much reason to fake a guilty on cheeky here really

==

Oh you can lynch me just let me get my reads out first.

i think that being chill with being lynched + actually going through and sharing the reads is pretty townie; i think last scum would be a lot more survivalistic here after being mechanically soft-guiltied

i don't really like the flubber vote on cheeky tbh.
or the followup that he'd vote ddj next if she greens

==

These reads tell me it's not Lady A or Flubber. Or Skitter.

why not lady angel? i thought joges sheeping her was kinda meh, and i didn't like how robert didn't really have much to say about her vote-parking him besides 'could be inactive, could be scum, who knows'

also i think the day2 gamestate kinda makes sense with lurking scum kinda just waiting for a lynch to happen

==

I'm not gonna be stubborn, but I really would rather a No Lynch today. You can lynch whomever you like tomorrow if I'm dead tonight.

uh if we no-lynch and milk is town he's dead unless he stops the nk again

[skitter30]

Question: does vig stop nk? That could explain one (or maybe both) lacks of nks. Also, ddj, talk with me
here bc I'm apparently nevertown to skitter

you've had like one or two townie posts today that i kinda liked but on balance i felt that your pushes on thor and dla and vote-parkign were pretty bad; you also never really responded to me when i called you out on your illogic a few times over the past couple of phases.

like i said tho i'm fine leaving this for now given the absence of another explanation for the lack of nks and the fact that if you're scum you've kinda boxed yourself in mechanically wrt making nks and i don't think you could expect to survive to endgame on it, and if you're town you're going to be dead pretty soon most likely unless you're like a miracle jk, so yeah

==

@skitter: Cheeky knows me well enough. Flubber is a gut read. I think No Lynch is our best bet regardless of whether we have 1 or 2 remaining scums. Trust me.

is she good at reading you?

The fuck even. Omo explain how you didn't vote joges here?

idk

I probably felt that one post wasn't enough to warrant a vote? who knows

meh

==

As for flubber I think scum would have bussed him if he were scum with them.

He doesn't sound like he's following any particular agenda or working with a particular team, if that makes sense to anyone. Him not being pushed much until now makes me think he's town honestly. Though I wish he would suspect people that could actually flip scum instead of me and CT.

Really? In a Joges/Robert/{Soviet Crocolisk/LolWagons/Flubber} team you think that slot would have been bussed? Honestly, I don't see that scum team having an extensive long-term plan really tbh; i see them more as kinda muddling by and taking advantage of major conflicts and lolhammers and stagnant gamestates to get the past two mislynches. like I guess I can see them trying to bus maybe Crocolisk early on when they have the numbers but the three of them have all been under enough suspicion and have been in the poe like all game that i'm not sure it would have helped them really to bus and make endgame that much harder with fewer numbers.

==

I'm wondering if it's worth going tinfoil hat on this setup, I'm trying to rationalize how two scum died in two nights

i mean the vig is obvs doing a pretty good job
i'm a little disturbed that you've been popping in to make comments like 'i'm so confused' and 'i'm trying to udnerstand how scum died these two nights' without doing much else
you're basically making vague comments on set-up spec without, like, scumhunting, and i think in a game with weird night flips htat might be an easier way for scum to try to interact with the thread.

==

bujaber is still hilariously obvtown

==

I still have no clue why scum tries so hard to kill cheeky over a different player high in people's reads lists.

yeah this bit is confusing to me.
i'm not entirely sure why scum would try to nk town!cheeky twice in this gamestate, especially if it didn't work the first time. i can see like ddj maybe but cheeky being the target twice is quite odd.

not entirely sure who'd be threatened enough by her here really to try to nk her twice. at the end of day1 she was onto robert, but so was like everyone else after that hammer. she has been fairly consistently scumreading your slot actually, now that i think about it

Well when you're on the cusp of losing what's left?

i find scum tend to get survivalistic/defeated-y when they're the last scum in a shaky position (like, say, getting jk-guiltied). i haven't really gotten that vibe for her, and i think accepting her lynch is here is townie - it's not just her immediate reaction, but also that she's been repeatedly matter-of-factly saying things like 'yeah if the no-lynch doesn't work we'll just lynch me' etc

==

not really vibing no-lynch honestly
VOTE: omochao
i think this is where i want to go; i disliked how he was positioning to push like half of the thor wagon at the start of day2, and his repeated posts calling joges 'yikes' when joges was under suspicion without really doing anything about it feels distance-y; his post above in response to cheeky calling him out is underwhelming and he can't really explain why he didn't really vote him ever

i guess i wouldn't really object to a no-lynch if it came down to it given that we do have a vig, so we most likely will gain information overnight, but i think lynching is a lot better because it forces people to take articulable positions in the event of a mislynch/misvig tonight and the game is ongoing tomorrow.

[skitter30]

@skitter - maybe I don't know.. I don't have a solid case on it with tangible evidence, just the way I felt about flubber. What about the second part of that quote? Do you feel that any of his posts are indicative of someone having a team with him?


I sadly obvtowned way earlier than this.. at this stage I might as well just post whatever I want until scum NK me or we win.

But yes I didn't want to say it because I didn't trust my pov on the issue but now that some of you have mentioned it I likely got targetted at least once which is another reason why I'm skeptical of the whole cheeky being JK'd twice thing. Not to mention A50 also being alive.

VOTE: Omochao seems like there's more support for Omo than lady A.

i don't really see much associatives with him either way really.

And yeah you were obvtown super early on; the posts you've made over the past couple of days have just reaffirmed it. And yeah that's why I'm a little sketpical about milk, I'm not sure why he chooses to protect cheeky twice and not you? Or why scum would try to nk her twice? Like it all just belies a signifcant lack of understanding about the gamestate that points to either like lurking scum or people making incredibly suboptimal night action choices.

==

My role is bizarre. I simply submit a list of 3 living players each night. If one (and exactly one) of them is Scum, they die and the scum kill is blocked. If none, 2 or all 3 are scum my action fails and the scum NK goes through.

i mean ok?
ngl this role is low-key bizarre and a little bit OP given the sheer number of innos you could generate each night. i guess i believe it tho; if you're lying that would imply that there's some other individual with the ability to kill scum at night and presumably they'll murderize you for taking credit for their scumkills. it also does explain why there haven't been nks

not entirely sure why you claimed this rn tho? you weren't in danger of getting lynched or anything and i don't think claiming this particularly affects today's lynch really. like i can understand why you don't want to lynch milk today if you ahve this ability, but i still don't get why you think a no-lynch is useful here; we can use this + lynch today to resolve two poeple instead of one; and now if you don't choose a scum they will be able to nk and also know *who* to nk

i did think that the no nk thing was prob some sort of crumb for a pr, so that adds up, and you have also been very supportive of the vig

jk + this (what's this even called anyways?) i don't think jive super well tho? you're effectively claiming a strange combo of vig/cop that's incredibly swingy by virtue of the number of investigative results it will yield, and if you fuck up n1 and get yourself nk'd the rest of the game we'd be depending on a jk. like it goes from town having a ridiculous amount of power to town having very little; i think it's unlikely that town would have that much other power in conjunction with this role, but if you go down early, town is understrength imo

and even though two scum have already flipped, jk is kinda useless rn at generating guilties - the lack of the nk could be attributed to your action, and not because the last scum was jk'd and prevented from doing the nk.

==

ok, so a50 + cheeky + ddj
a50's going to check milk tonight

if milks town, presumably a50 dies tonight, so we have 3 innos in 7 people with a jk
if milk's scum, he's dead, and the game is just over. in case there really are 4 scum, we have 3 innos tomorrow in 8 people with a50 still alive

that leaves 5 people {me, flubber, omochao, lady angel, gamma}
the game isn't quite on auto, but fairly close i think? like one mislynch off from being on auto i think if i'm looking at this right, with the ability of generating further results later on

i think my preffered order is: omochao > lady angel > flubber > gamma

[skitter30]

is there, like, a reason we're not really doing anything, beyond a50 wanting to go for a hat trick?
it's like halfway through the dayphase and more than half of the players aren't even voting rn
no lynch is still kinda pointless imo; we should be using both lynches + night actions to sort through the poe; the game should be on auto if we utilize both properly i think, if i counted right.

==

You don't really get a say sorry. You tried to guilty me and now there's evidence for another scum member so you follow whatever A50 and DDJ want to do for tonight. We have to leash you or waste A50s check on you. He's going to die so Id rather we take down all my scum reads in one go. Flubber lynch, LA blocked, omo checked.

i think a50 should check milk; i still think that a50's role in conjunction with a jk doesn't make super much sense together honestly

(a50's role is also quite op tbh, but idk how else scum died so yeah)

if a50 dies it implies that the person he checked is town and scum were able to nk and htat the person milk jk'd is did not perform the nk; in this scenario we'd actually get a useful result from milk; a50 and milk need to check different people tonight

also just pointing out that if a50 survives tonight a jk guilty doesn't mean anything - the lack of an nk could well be attributed to a50 blocking scum, and not the jk, so a jk guilty isn't actually a guilty, if i'm understanding the interaction between the roles correctly.

==

repeated posts calling him yikes? I don't remember anything like that. Also saying that I said that while joges was under suspicion seems like revisionism here, I don't think that joges was under suspicion at all when I said that he had a yikes/10 post. About it being underwhelming, same as above, how does not having reason to not vote equate to having a reason to? I think it would have been weird to vote joges at the post. Also seems strange to distance by calling one post bad and not including him in my lynch pool? idk I just don't like this take.

Spoiler: yikes

#381: this post is actually so yikes/10 that i might have to go to a hospital for any chance of recovery

That’s a very good flip. Anyone have reason to

not

lynch off Thor’s wagon today?

I don't like limiting ourselves to options when there's no way yet to know 100% it had any scum on it. But I would be interested in maybe seeing thoughts from people about who they feel on that wagon is most likely to be scum. But I do not like trying to limit ourselves to only the votes on Thor's wagon.

yikes/10 post here

i thought i remembered there being more than just two, but looking back it looks like i was mistaken, apologies. my point is that more than once you called his posts bad but didn't really do much else about the read or interact with him at all really other than that. also i'm pretty sure gamma and cheeky were pushing him then too.

it's not so much that you didn't vote there specifically but more that you highlight posts you don't like but dont' really follow up in any real way; you don't vote him, you don't put him in your lynch pool, you don't encourage other people to push him, you barely mention him even outside of those posts. that's why it feels distance-y - you call his posts bad but don't really do anything else about it

also it's not just your joges associatives, it's also how you started day2 after the thor wagon; i still don't like how you were fine with {me/milk} but were telling me you'd support dla while both {me/milk} were voting there; i get that you didn't have your laptop and may not have realized where people were voting, but telling one of the people pushing dla that you'd be willing to join her just after you say she's one of your top two suspects is kinda dubious and feels kinda bandwagon-y to me and like it didn't really matter to you *which* person on the thor wagon got pushed; like the reads you're giving don't entirely match up with where you're willing to push.

==

Didnt read and i dont really wanna

ok, how are you planning on contributing to solving this game then?

[skitter30]

ngl i think a50's claim kinda strains credulity. it's kinda op and incredibly swingy, especially since the jk did not, in fact, exist and there does not seem to be much power otherwise. like we seem to be in 9:4 and if a50 had died early game, like day1 or n1, then what?

like while he's alive, the role is op in that effectively combines a vig/cop/doc, and it has the capacity to generate an absurd amount of investigative results; all the flipped scum thus far are goons so, like, what did they have to countermand this? and once he's dead, the game becomes scumsided by scum's sheer numbers.

the role as described basically means the game's swing and balance depends on how well one player plays and if they manage to live long enough to utilize their role. if he does, it's townsided, and if he doesn't, it's scumsided.

like from what i see in this setup rn, it's incredibly hard for me to see how a role like this, like, makes sense from like a balance/swing pov. it just doesn't really makes sense as like a real role tbh

==

also i think today should be mass-claim day

==

MY DAY OF REDEMPTION
IS UPON US

though like I was thinking 3:10

and kinda townread tmck

my bad

not entirely certain where the milk townreads stemmed from; i thought his voteparking on the day1 and day2 wagons was quite awful, especially coupled with his, like, lack of any sort of discernible sorting. i kinda said this yesterday, but i thought there was a fairly decent chance that he claimed to fend off the pushes he probably would have gotten yesterday otherwise, especially since his claimed night actions didn't make that much sense.

==

So like, can we lynch flubber now?

Yes, Flubber greens

Tonight A50 targets {us, Lady, skitter} in case there's another red flip

sorry, maybe i'm not reading this right? you want to lynch flubber today even though you think he greens?

[skitter30]

Uh if there's no jk a50 shouldn't be alive

Maybe there's just no nk for scum and there's like 5 of them?

well, the way he claimed his role is that if he finds exactly one scum out of his 3 targets the scum nk is blocked and the one scum dies, which is what appears to have happened; he claimed to have checked ddj, cheeky, and milk, and milk died, and there was no nk

i'm kinda thinking that scum may choose to suicide instead of nk'ing; it would explain milk's lolhammer yesterday if he knew he didn't need to face the consequences today

[skitter30]

I'm kind if out of sync today, so I'll both ride my luck AND sheep my confirmed townies.

VOTE: Flubber

Then will go for the proposed DDJ/Cheeky/skitter if this greens.

yes, let's just ignore me pointing out why your role doesn't make much sense

==

@tw do u have an order you want it to happen in?

[skitter30]

also @doubting thomas, have you read anything since you repped in?
do you have thoughts on life, the unvierse, and everything?

[skitter30]

Hi my entire neighborhood has not had power at all today and i dont know when i'm getting it back; vla until i get power back

[skitter30]

i got power back this morning, but don't have much time rn before weekend vla so i'll be quick

i flat-out don't believe a50's claim tbh
it makes the game ridiculously swingy and balance seems to depend on one particular player not dying early which is a really really dumb way to balance a setup imo; there doesn't seem to be much power otherwise and the only reason why we seem to be doing as well as we are rn is because of him getting scum each night. like if he dies day1/n1, how does the rest of the game play out exactly?

i also think that his level of accuracy is scum-indicative - he's managed to find exactly one scum each night 3 nights in a row? robert makes sense for being thor's cw. but why did he pick joges again? he never gave a reason for that. he checked milk despite believing his claim and thinking it jived with his?

he's also walking back the responsibility of his checks these past two nights - he's quite happy that he's gotten scum the first two nights on his own volition and all gung-ho about it and then today and yesterday he's been doing whatever ddj/cheeky want and making sure they approve his decisions. honestly, i think that town!him wouldn't let other people tell him what to do at night.

he also knows i can read him and has repeatedly just ignored me when i've pointed out the problems of his play and his role, and has basically been coasting early game on the commuter claim and yesterday/today on the new claim; he's not scumhunting, and he's happy to let other people make his decisions for him while supporting wagons that have ended on a townflip each day

i think that there's some mechanism for scum flipping at night that a50 knows about (remember the slip from like early day1 where he said there aren't nk's?) and is taking credit for. also iirc i'm also pretty sure he's the reason we started speculating about more than 3 scum yesterday (ie before the third scumflip) - i think he needed to explain why the game didn't end last night despite finding three scum.

i don't believe his claim; i don't think it makes sense as a real role; and i think the way he's played it is scum-indicative and in a theoretical universe i think he should just be lynched and i'm pretty sure that just ends the game.

i recognize that if he's actually is town lynching him would be dumb af tho, and that it isn't happening today. since if he's town there's enough lynches/nights with his role to put the game basically on auto, i think bujaber's plan is a workable alternative that covers all the possible cases; i'm fine with lynching flubber today and targeting the rest of us; on the off chance that a50's town that should end the game, and if he's scum he's going to have to explain what happened over night, which will make tomorrow easy

like i'm not sure what the setup is or why the game is still going, but even though a50 is taking credit for the scumflips, his behavior just isn't townie. he just doesn't feel like town!him, and i don't think this is how town!him plays this role.

[skitter30]

no, i think you're just annoyed that i caught you, and it's an egregious misrep to say that i do this every game irregardless of your/mine alignmenets given that i think every single town game i've played with you in the last like half year besides like starcraft i correctly read town!you off of like two posts; it only takes me this long to figure out your alignment when you're scum

if you're actually town here and have a problem with how i sort you or playing with me we can talk about it in post or pm after teh game is over if you like, and i sincerely apologize for upsetting you, although i'm not entirely sure what's upset you here; otherwise i think you just have to say this to get me off your back without actually addressing any of the points that i've raised.

and lol at me being scared of you.

flubber's claimed vt already. if you're town this should end the game overnight, and if you're scum i get to say i told you so tomorrow.
VOTE: flubber

[skitter30]

Can anyone claim the A50 kill?

i assume that the real vig just didn't bother ccing a50 given that he/she could shoot him

would like to know who's locktown first before advancing

fuck it
hi this is me

i thought the game would end once i shot a50 but that ... apparently isn't a thing
ngl i'm more than kinda annoyed that the game is still ongoing after four nights of this

[skitter30]

I want to NL and see what happens
I feel like that’s the most likely twist: we win by NL

no this isn't a thing
i don't know why you thought it was a thing now and i don't know why a50 thought it was a thing two days ago

[skitter30]

anyone object to skitter => DT/GE => NSG => us?

yes, me
i know why you're reading me the way you are, but i am not getting mislynched here for the first time since like last may in a game where i've had four freaking correct vig shots, thank you

you're just town and i think nsg is too based on cheeky's play and how milk tried to guilty her day3; i'm pretty sure lynching and shooting in {dt/ge} just ends the game.

i'm a little nervous because if i'm wrong a townflip today and another tonight coupled with me dying tonight means that the game just ends overnight but i think that *probably* isn't a thing? given a50's slip from early day1 and how the game has played out i think he really did just fuck up and slipped something he wasn't supposed to, and that he spent a lot of the rest of the day trying to sort of play around it; i think that means that there will probably be another day tomorrow and a mess of a lylo to sort through if the game doesn't just end with {dt/ge}

[skitter30]

show me your crumbing or softer?

i don't really crumb or soft; i don't think i have as a pr like ever tbh

@skitter sorry to be insistent. last time I singlehandedly nailed the scumteam I was a serial killer. I face value do not trust highly accurate vig claims in games with >4 scum

i mean sure, and i can understand why you're skeptical but like if i'm an sk i played .... really strangely? like, i honestly have no idea why sk!me would have shot a50 last night instead of shooting for town given that it was pretty apparent that he would have gotten lynched today?

like i'm kinda trying to wrap my head around how sk!me would have played this and i'm kinda drawing a blank because i pretty strongly thought milk was scum and i don't think that i ever shoot someone i thought was scum after two scum flips in a mini on n3 as an sk

==

oh, so skitter is scum huh

Nah, I'm VT.

I believe I have this setup worked out. Writing up a case atm.

do tell

[skitter30]

i thought you were likening me this game to your sk game

[skitter30]

no
was trying to not eat an nk and i think i overcorrected a bit

[skitter30]

i thought you were likening me this game to your sk game

I said I would not be taking it at face value

fair enough, fair enough; i misread what you meant then

[skitter30]

ok i kinda just stared at that, thought about it for a few minutes, and i think i concede
i don't think i have a chance in hell at talking my way out of this today

[skitter30]

i thought you nailed me/a50
i didn't think you nailed the setup

some paranoid part of my mind thoguth you might be baiting me but i guess my sleep-addled mind decided it was a good idea anyways

[skitter30]

very very well played skitter

it took me entirely by surprise to see you scumclaim vig there, i was fully townreading you from what i had read

oh just fuck this game then

[skitter30]

i was fully expecting you + tw to want to powerlynch me today

[skitter30]

very very well played skitter

it took me entirely by surprise to see you scumclaim vig there, i was fully townreading you from what i had read

really tho i thought i played atrociously

and really sorry @scum i kinda fucked up :/

[skitter30]

reading back you certainly set yourself up for the vig claim very nicely

i kinda kept it in the back of my mind but never really on purpose

i kinda felt reckless this afternoon and decided to just wing it, that was apparently not the best idea

i noted in the scum pt that it might have been bait; not sure why i did it anyways

[skitter30]

no she was literally never vig here, not with how cheeky interacted with a50; i didn't believe it

i thought it like ~80% she actually believed it and like ~%20 percent that it was bait

i kinda had a running commentary going in the scum pt for like the duration of the afternoon, you can read it

[skitter30]

yeah idk this game just like .... really exactly the antithesis of how i play scum and it was quite difficult imo:

-> no nks (ddj would have been dead forever ago; i just nk the people i can't pocket)
-> no bussing (i spent forever trying to figure out how to distance without literally bussing my partners and i froze for quite a lot of the game because of it because a50 really did slip day1 and a bunch of them were kinda scummy)

it's basically: lynch 5 in 8 people, there are no nks, and if any of 5 people die at any point you just lose

and altogether i kinda froze for a lot fo the game and couldn't figure out now to interact with my partners in the short term without making myself look bad in the long-term when they inevitably flipped, especially since i knew i would have to deepwolf here to win most likely

[skitter30]

I mean I agree and I think she vtslipped sod anyway but it was still a crazy high pressure situation

yeah maybe i should have just kept going but when nsg kinda laid the setup out i was just like: yeah idk i literally have nothing to say to that

the main reason why this game was playable was because it was closed and she kinda took away that advantage

but @nsg that was pretty impressive, good job!

[skitter30]

i was actually really mad when i saw that A50 was the one to escape because he was the only real scumread i had

my thing with saying the vig would be locktown was something of a longshot that i didn't expect to actually work out

yeah i'm a *little* bit frustrated that i fell for it given that i recognized the possibility that it was bait :/

[skitter30]

i had A50 down completely but did not think it was you

i did really dislike your hammering flubber yesterday but it was moreso in the context of "ah why won't you let me replace in before the day is over and lynch a50!". if i took a moment to stop and think about it i think i might have been able to recognize it as a scum move, but i'm not sure.

reading back you certainly set yourself up for the vig claim very nicely

yeah i spent quite a while trying to figure out how to distance without, like, actually bussing any one of 4 different partners, it was a little bit tricky

[skitter30]

anyway gg town!

sorry @scum that i couldn't/didn't pull it off!

[skitter30]

[skitter30]

eh i did learn a bunch of things tho:
1. being wrong as scum is fine and i can fake being stubborn sometimes
2. apparently i shouldn't worry about being read on bop?
3. being reckless is not a good idea for my playstyle
4. apparently i can fool nsg? this is kinda surprising to learn ngl
5. i do not enjoy nightless or lover setups as scum and i'm going to stay very far away from them

[skitter30]

you're not allowed to roll scum against me anymore skitter
it's the law

i mean i've only had 3 scumgames in the past like year and a half

and yes, you were in two of them lol

if this hadn't been effectively nightless you would have been very very very dead a very very very long time ago, town!you kinda scares me

[skitter30]

fair enough!

[skitter30]

yeah i pointed out in the scumpt a while ago that a very significant reason why i wasn't under more pressure was cuz you weren't really posting; when you actually started playing my chances of pulling it off went way down and i kinda predicted and anticipated that but i wasn't very good at adapting to it

[skitter30]

Did scum have daychat?

nope

[skitter30]

eh i maybe did before i took nsg's bait, after i didn't really; i kinda misplayed that, whoops :/

but thanks jingle for modding!

[skitter30]

^^^^^^^^^^^^

[skitter30]

And suck it up skitter You almost got there against a stacked town despite a really awkward start D1. If I'd given you daychat I'd never have had the pleasure of watching you freak out about how you were gonna lose for five days straight

eh no, you would have gotten a literal running commentary about my thoughts on like every other post in the game

and people who don't enjoy playing scum (like skitter) could pull the ripcord and disappear relatively early (unlike skitter) without hurting their team.

i overall felt like we had a better chance of getting farther if i stayed in than if i left; even though i hate playing scum with a passion i do recognize that i'm competent enough at it that i thought my absence on an early night would be more detrimental to the team as a whole than my staying given that i was *probably* the deepwolf most of the time in this scumteam

i kinda have a whole thing about the setup, not sure if i'll post it or not but yeah

[skitter30]

and don't worry about it, it was in the flavor in the op so like it wasn't exactly hard to find