Mini 2167: Illicit Substances Mafia (Game Over!)

[Something_Smart]

In another dimension maybe.
@S_S get out of your scum Pt and say hello.

Make me :c

[Something_Smart]

I'd much prefer to gripe about touhou and make hydra jokes, myself.

[Something_Smart]

Any thoughts about the game?

Yes. Really spicy ones. I'll uh... let you know when I think of them.

[Something_Smart]

I want to believe that notsci is more likely to hydra with a Not_Mafia impersonator than with Not_Mafia himself.

Though I guess hydraing with Not_Mafia isn't really bad, it's just like playing normal but being a compulsive hammerer.

[Something_Smart]

I have my reasons to believe plus joyed had read the thread in its entirety before making those two posts.

Is it really surprising that a newer player read the six-page thread full of experienced players who are familiar with each other and couldn't come up with anything?

[Something_Smart]

Doubtful.

[Something_Smart]

Yep.

Well, noteworthy is that I'm far more experienced than +J, and I actually read the thread a second time on your request, and I still didn't come up with anything. So I'm really not about to hold that against him.

However, I do agree with you that what he did choose to say felt a bit off. Can you elaborate on that?

[Something_Smart]

I mean, I didn't mention it before because I didn't find it significant, but there is a nonzero chance that 156 was an awkward scum attempt to avoid saying "Nothing."

[Something_Smart]

Because the probability that he would make that post as scum but not as town is very low?

[Something_Smart]

That is the sense in which I was using the word, yes.

[Something_Smart]

If that's the case, then he needs to quote his alt slips on the correct account.

[Something_Smart]

I’m guessing that’s a rule? I wonder why.

It's not a hard-and-fast rule. But it just seems like common sense to me; it's unacceptable to have a game-related post made in the game where the players don't know from which slot it came.

In this case it may have been obvious, but it isn't always obvious, and there shouldn't be any room for confusion.

[Something_Smart]

I must admit, this game is not doing a good job of making hydras look easy to play with.

[Something_Smart]

I'll thank you kindly to stay out of my line of inquiry.

What are you inquiring about?

[Something_Smart]

My join date on this account should say a lot

Heh, nice. I didn't notice that.

[Something_Smart]

Instant town read because of the pressure on him when I showed up because it’s exactly what happened when I played a game with him with older players earlier in the year.

For the record, I don't really feel like there's pressure on me per se. It's more just that I haven't contributed anything yet, and people see that as a less-than-ideal state of affairs.

[Something_Smart]

I'd like to see your thoughts about the gamestate.

Do you mean the gamestate as in the overall trends and major activities of the game? Because it's a pretty unremarkable early game right now.

If you just wanted to hear my thoughts on the game, I don't have any yet that I haven't shared, but I can reread and look for some if you would like.

[Something_Smart]

We also played in Board Game uPick: Expansion, where you faked a guilty on RC. I was town and not in a hydra then; I believe it was a little after the all-hydra scum game. I don't remember what my playstyle was like in that game, I think it was at least a bit different because I remember having multiple confident scumreads and that doesn't sound like modern me

[Something_Smart]

Re: the hydra comment, it wasn't dislike per se, just that there was a decent amount of confusion with regards to who said what (and with IV, who was even part of the hydra/playing in the game), and it was hard for me to follow (and probably even harder for +J to follow).

[Something_Smart]

I'll take anything that helps me see how you're processing this game.

And re: this... well, like I said, nothing stuck out to me yet. I can go back and read, but I feel like there's been a lot of noise and it would be hard to find something. Better would be if you could select a specific issue you either have an opinion on, or think I might have an opinion on, and we can discuss that issue relatively in-depth.

[Something_Smart]

my initial impression of april is negative. They are lamisting here without solve effort

This is very much typical Flavor Leaf.

[Something_Smart]

How about Prism? What do you think of their play so far?

Have you played much with them? My experience with them is as a mod in two towngames.

Prism's comment about having no thoughts on the game is a towntell that I like to use. But, this seems like the kind of game where that would be an easy thing to do as scum who's not part of the meta circle, so I'm hesitant to assign townpoints to it. (And I'm not really sure how much of a towntell it actually is, though I have seen it be right in the past.)

Other than that Prism seems pretty unwilling to do anything at all to avoid pressure. I would suspect that that's just a Prism MO, but it's possibly a towntell.

I haven't played with Prism, discounting a game that was abandoned immediately after I replaced into it. I modded a game where they had a deadbeat scumteam and pulled off an extremely impressive scum win (in what was probably a somewhat townsided setup). I don't recall exactly why they got so townread but I think it had to do with faking really genuine-looking actions such as a self-vote. So that's probably a good sign since they seem the polar opposite of that here, but it was a long time ago.

[Something_Smart]

I also resent that LAMIST comment.

If anything I’m just LAM.

Okay, that's pretty fair

[Something_Smart]

And S_S version three is here.
Neat.

I what now?

[Something_Smart]

same with remilla but in that case substitute me being a touhou fan over me likeing their playstyle

You’ve got to be kidding me...

lol

[Something_Smart]

Can you elaborate on why this game appeared to be polar opposite? This seems to suggest that either I wasn't looking very genuine, that the type of actions were fundamentally different, or that there's just something tonally/stylistically that's different. Selfvoting in three way ExLo with a player openly scumreading me is a lot more bold than just saying "Yeah I don't have reads vote me" knowing the chance of it going through is small.

Specifically, the part that's opposite is that your play this game has been very reserved. Of course it's a small sample size, but I'm just working with what I've got. In that game, from a mod's eye view I could see that you were going to great lengths to appear genuine, whereas at the time of my post in this game you had posted tersely and sarcastically and hadn't really made any effort to look like you were doing something.

[Something_Smart]

Don't really like this post. It feels like putting in a lot more reasoning than really is needed for something that was so minor.

That feels pretty normal from what I know of Bell.

[Something_Smart]

let's put it this way, i don't believe any answer that was given to that question was going to really tell them anything about something_smart and i don't think they actually thought it would so it just looks like they felt compelled to question something without even thinking about why it matters

I... don't follow this in the slightest. I would assume that they asked that question because my answer was vague and they wanted to know what I meant. Without knowing what the answer is, how can they know if it will tell them anything about me?

[Something_Smart]

your problem is you're assuming morph!town in a scenario where muffin is clearly angling morph!scum

It doesn't even assume morph-town, it just assumes that there is a town motivation that morph is playing to-- either actually being town, or just trying to build a narrative that looks town. Muffin is arguing that their scum method for appearing town is "ask random questions without thinking about whether those questions actually relate to anything" but my argument is that even if they are scum, they were probably playing to a deeper reason than that, and thus his argument isn't compelling.

[Something_Smart]

but let's run with this and assume they thought it would: do you think they learned anything about you from your answer? or do you think they expected a different answer that would tell them something about you?

I would imagine that it gave them a better idea of how I view the game. Because I can understand them being confused about why I thought I saw something but didn't say it, if that's not in line with how they would play.

[Something_Smart]

(it's the joindate, complaining about hydrae is more distracting to a game than over-active hydrae themselves)

Nobody is complaining about hydras being over-active

[Something_Smart]

It definitely seems to be the implication. What was the point of that line, then?

[Something_Smart]

the second part was a general statement supporting the first part. the line as a whole means I think it is somewhat scummy to lament about hydrae in-thread instead of just playing the game and sorting them, but perhaps not so scummy coming from someone who has never played with a hydra before.

You think it's scummy because it's distracting? Or, why did it matter that it was distracting?

[Something_Smart]

italicized are the bits, lets call them euphemisms for demonstrative purposes, that I read as fluff dressing this post up as something other than a simple "hydra bad" post, like +j's 309.

I see. It was a little more nuanced than "hydra bad"-- "look" was the key word there, because I was referring to the confusion that the hydras had caused thus far (as I referenced later). In my opinion, it's a legitimate grievance, and it's still causing confusion. So what makes it scummy?

[Something_Smart]

I don't know how much of my opinion here hinges on the buddying theory tbh. it's a backburner read for now but in general, complaints like that are an easy way for scum to appear to be producing game-related content, when in reality they are actively stalling useful discussion.

All right, I understand where you're at now. You see it as filler that's posted in lieu of content.

I don't usually agree with this type of read, because literally making game-related posts is not that hard as scum, and because it's not as though I chose to complain about hydras rather than saying something game-related; I chose to complain about hydras rather than posting nothing at that particular moment. But we don't have to keep going down this rabbit hole if you don't want to.

[Something_Smart]

There was literally no point to do the exercise and it felt quite unnatural/artificial to me.

There's no point to... sharing your reads in a clear and concise format?

That's a new one.

[Something_Smart]

Why are people townreading Bell

726.

[Something_Smart]

Or meant for you as a part of a lager plan.

I can hardly beer the excitement of hearing what you're brewing up.

[Something_Smart]

That's not really what I was thinking, but now you have one read.

What were you thinking, then?

[Something_Smart]

Bell's post came from scum, so I'm not going to indulge it. If you want my reads right now, I still have Bulge as town with Prism. Scum is bell and plus atm.

Sorry, I guess what I was talking about wasn't very clear.

I want to hear why Bell's exercise was artificial and why it was pointless, because it doesn't feel like either to me.

[Something_Smart]

The whole post is just yucky towncred grab.

I'm struggling to imagine Bell thinking that telling everyone to stop what they're doing and explain their reads to him like he's 5 is going to get him towncred.

[Something_Smart]

Also @midway, I don't really agree that people complying would have radically changed the flow of the game to the point where people's reads or focus would be altered. It's not as if he told people to go on a big tangent that would require them to forget whatever they were talking about; people were already discussing their reads, so if anything, them having to condense them down to top town/town pings/top scum would reinforce their strongest reads. Suggesting that Bell did it as a distraction tactic from +J is pretty damn tinfoily; I doubt that Bell would expect that to actually work.

[Something_Smart]

I disagree with you about the towncred. I can totally see it.

Have you ever done something similar as scum for towncred?

[Something_Smart]

If you feel like I'm assisting you, that's incidental; I disagreed with something he said, and I wanted to understand where he was coming from.

[Something_Smart]

my brain says that could just be a playstyle difference between us and you prefer to not discuss what'a been talked about but my gut says that's scum play.

This... doesn't sound like something that they would lie about.

[Something_Smart]

Dang, I asked if I could get a PT earlier when I was posting a lot, so I posted about 7 times in it, and didn’t realize until just now that they were already made.

That’s interesting.

Haha.

[Something_Smart]

You see, I have this secret tell that has pretty decent amount of accuracy even without me reading all those pages.
I'm going to use this secret tell and call morph and Bell town for until at least Day 3.

SECRET TELL
SECRET TELL
FOR THE TOWNREADS
SECRET, SECRET, SECRET, SECRET TELL!

[Something_Smart]

If morph has an even number of posts they are town, if an odd number they are scum

Nailed it

[Something_Smart]

I’m curious what S_S thinks about alisae since if you remove the length of alisae’s post it’s basically his scum entrance.

Eh?

[Something_Smart]

midwaybear I really liked your posts in WW&V. I wasn't faking that.

I hate them here

[Something_Smart]

The gamestart PM seems to have been borked. I received a PM that was only sent to 3 people. Looks like Bulge received a different one?

[Something_Smart]

the issue is why would scum-alisae be here at game start if alisae had no knowledge of the game starting

I assume because e'd be active in the scum PT and eir partners would point it out?

[Something_Smart]

Gamestart PM was sent to....

To: innocentvillager borkjerfkin fferyllt GuyInFreezer notscience Remilia Scarlet morph the cat The Bulge Prism MariaR Bell PlusJOYED Secret Tunnel

My PM was sent to me, midway, and April, the last three people on the playerlist. It looks like they split up the PM because of the max recipient limit and Alisae (fourth from the end) got lost.

[Something_Smart]

why...

Well, this is what prompted me to post that:

Assuming good faith, I feel like many of your posts (like this one) serve no real purpose other than fluff and fit in the category of: short comment that scum make.

Because it's silly. By and large people only make short comments as scum if they would also make them as town, and just because you don't immediately see the purpose behind a post doesn't mean it has none, and it especially doesn't mean that Bell couldn't THINK it had one.

[Something_Smart]

Pet town reads. I’m trusting this person’s read’s but i’m not going to town read them etc.

I mean, that was my scum entrance because it's also a thing I do as town... because it's a good thing to do and people ought to do it more.

[Something_Smart]

However,I do think that leans towards PlusTown for thinking that.

I’m not sure I think PlusScum talks like that.

Agree

[Something_Smart]

But why is it a good thing to trust the reads of somebody who you aren’t sure is scum or not. About a player you aren’t sure is scum or not either?

Because the integrity of the read is only compromised if both parties are scum and the one is actually fabricating a townread on the other. This is a thing that doesn't happen too often, and it also has a low prior to begin with. So mostly what I'm doing when I'm trusting someone's townread is to decrease the likelihood in your head that the first person is town and wrong about the second, which ends up making the second person a lot townier overall.

[Something_Smart]

Pattern recognition. I think your opening post tries to look town.

How do you think town-Alisae would express confusion about the game starting without em noticing?

[Something_Smart]

955 just looks like the kind of post id make as scum if i wasnt really thinking about it properly but i thought people might think "oh yeah that makes sense"

it also looks like the kind of post I'd make as town if I wasn't really thinking about it properly and I thought "oh yeah that makes sense"

[Something_Smart]

955 just looks like the kind of post id make as scum if i wasnt really thinking about it properly but i thought people might think "oh yeah that makes sense"

it also looks like the kind of post I'd make as town if I wasn't really thinking about it properly and I thought "oh yeah that makes sense"

Like, if you think it's something a townie might believe without really thinking about it, then town-Alisae might believe it without really thinking about it, no?

[Something_Smart]

okay but I would though

There are several possible reasons why, but I do want to know, what exactly would be different if you were scum that would have caused you to know?

[Something_Smart]

Specifically, what, you would be visiting the game thread more often to see if it was open?

[Something_Smart]

let
Source = SharePoint.Files("https://qlercom.sharepoint.com/sites/QLERVUEbackend", [ApiVersion = 15]),
#"Primary Data xlsx_https://qlercom sharepoint com/sites/QLERVUEbackend/Shared Documents/" = Source{[Name="Primary Data.xlsx",#"Folder Path"="https://qlercom.sharepoint.com/sites/QL ... end/Shared Documents/"]}[Content],
#"Imported Excel" = Excel.Workbook(#"Primary Data xlsx_https://qlercom sharepoint com/sites/QLERVUEbackend/Shared Documents/"),
#"PARTNER CONTACTS_Sheet" = #"Imported Excel"{[Item="PARTNER CONTACTS",Kind="Sheet"]}[Data],
#"Changed Type" = Table.TransformColumnTypes(#"PARTNER CONTACTS_Sheet",{{"Column1", type text}, {"Column2", type text}, {"Column3", type text}, {"Column4", type text}, {"Column5", type text}, {"Column6", type text}, {"Column7", type text}}),
#"Promoted Headers" = Table.PromoteHeaders(#"Changed Type", [PromoteAllScalars=true]),
#"Changed Type1" = Table.TransformColumnTypes(#"Promoted Headers",{{"PF ID", type text}, {"CONTACT NAME", type text}, {"TITLE", type text}, {"PHONE", type text}, {"FUNCTION", type text}, {"EMAIL", type text}, {"CONTACT TYPE", type text}}),
#"Added Conditional Column" = Table.AddColumn(#"Changed Type1", "Coloring", each if [CONTACT TYPE] = "IT" then 1 else if [CONTACT TYPE] = "CLINICAL" then 2 else if [CONTACT TYPE] = "ADMINISTRATION" then 3 else if [CONTACT TYPE] = "GENERAL" then 4 else 5),
#"Changed Type2" = Table.TransformColumnTypes(#"Added Conditional Column",{{"Coloring", type number}}),
#"Renamed Columns" = Table.RenameColumns(#"Changed Type2",{{"CONTACT TYPE", "Color Guide"}})
in
#"Renamed Columns"

Scumpost

[Something_Smart]

Scum, how do you think about that?

It's gross. I love it.

[Something_Smart]

oh no

[Something_Smart]

Like they're setting up plans for the future based on flips they already know.

What flips?

[Something_Smart]

S_S seems more like debugging software than a player this game.

I love this simile.

[Something_Smart]

I was absolutely loving +J's readlist until I got to the Alisae read.

Oh well, I'll read the rest of it now. It's probably still fine.

[Something_Smart]

Update: it turns out the top two reads in that list are the only ones I really liked.

My theory is that +J's reads are not as pronounced as he's making them out to be and a lot of the people in the middle tiers were somewhat arbitrarily ordered.

[Something_Smart]

please elaborate.

I mean most of your middle reads are just "they've done towny things and scummy things and the towny things do/don't/kinda do outweigh the scummy things." But you just mention that things are or aren't towny without really explaining why? So it seems like it would have been very easy for you to, say, swap your townlean and weak townlean reads and change a few words, and they would still make sense. Except for the morph and Bell reads because those seem to be solid and based in real reasoning rather than handwaving-- probably because they're your strongest reads and you don't have to hedge or balance anything.

[Something_Smart]

What’s the point of nitpicking that? Is there a read given all of that analysis SS?

Does there have to be for it to have been worthwhile?

[Something_Smart]

Because I think it could be town forced and arbitrary, and I explained as much. There's no incongruity there.

[Something_Smart]

Actually, I think +J confirming my theory makes perfect sense and it bumps him up a bit in my reads. As it's less likely a scum reaction to admit that you are not really confident in the readlist you just spent a while on.

[Something_Smart]

morph
Bell, Bulge, +J
Maria, Tunnel
April, Muffin, Remilia, 420, Alisae
midwaybear

this is without rereading any posts

[Something_Smart]

I mean it very well could be not wrong. But midwaybear has... two completed scumgames? He's not exactly set in his ways.

[Something_Smart]

Is the ish Hectic's troll game, because I'm not counting that.

[Something_Smart]

O...kay.

I'll take your word for it and bump midway up two tiers, I guess. But I'm still skeptical.

[Something_Smart]

This is very sad. What's wrong with me this game?

I touched on this before, but I didn't elaborate, and I don't remember if you asked me to (sorry if you did and I neglected to).

But like... I really vibed with your analytical attitude in WW&V, to the point where I was quite curious to find out who you were because I really liked how you played. You had in general what felt like solid points, sound reasoning, not jumping to conclusions, looking at things logically, etc. All that good shit.

And here... you just seem to be playing more or less like an average player. Throwing out reads, asking questions and poking people, pushing your reads and trying to reconcile them with others. It feels like night and day. And I might be being hasty here, but you are playing what would be a fairly typical scumgame. And I know you are capable of an extremely atypical and interesting towngame. So... hence the placement. (Which was really only in a null-scum zone. Even having anyone that far down on D1 is somewhat unusual for me.)

[Something_Smart]

what is going on

I must be tired or something because I came to the end of a line and managed to jump to the wrong next one like four times in a row while reading that

this is why I only post short easy to digest one-liners

[Something_Smart]

We don’t care about these semantics this argument is dumb

But also amazing.

[Something_Smart]

What's the difference between null and ???

[Something_Smart]

So Bulge is the only person whose posts you haven't read?

That is surprising to me, I thought Bulge was one of the people with the easiest posts to follow.

[Something_Smart]

why is tunnel where they are here

I could go back and dig through their ISO to try to remember what made me feel that way but uh not tonight. As it stands I just... yeah I won't pretend to remember. I guess I just haven't really seen anything agenda-y?

[Something_Smart]

In the event that bulge flips red that's really sus.

Explain?

[Something_Smart]

i did in that post?

you kinda hedged against it though:

It might've been buying time to give a read on their scum bulge partner, but that's pretty overt and idk if aliase would do that when they could easily just not mention bulge too.

this is not convincing at all, it doesn't even look like you believe it. and given that e put two other people as ???, e could have just stuck bulge there as well.

[Something_Smart]

Scum are the most hesistant to express reads on their scumbuddies.

also this sounds like unsubstantiated nonsense to me. where have you observed this?

Even if it applies, it probably only applies to new/inexperienced scum.

[Something_Smart]

The Bulge - Null
Secret Tunnels - I liked their earlier posts
Morph the Cat - Town
Remilia Scarlet - I'm trusting morph who has more experience with the slot
zmuffin man -
Bell - Something seems off but I can't put my finger on it but its probably just me overthinking things

Prism/420 Blaze it - ???

PlusJOYED - Town but something seems off with those reads but I'm probably just overthinking it
MariaR - Most likely town but too early to be sure
April Ludgate - Proceed with caution

Something_Smart - ???

midwaybear - Probably town

Also e just left the Muffin spot completely blank.

[Something_Smart]

he specifically said he wasn't reading bulges posts and that stuck out to me.

Yes exactly, it sticks out. How does that square with it being an inconspicuous attempt to avoid giving a read on a scumbuddy?

[Something_Smart]

I hope the three of you can spot the difference in this game. ScumMe runs the shadows, townMe gets ridiculed and laughed at in public.

You have been ridiculed and laughed at in public as scum before, but you are feeling like town so far.

[Something_Smart]

No fighting. This is the war room.

quality reference

[Something_Smart]

@SS - Am I crazy with this push?

I mean you're just crazy in general.

The level of thinking that you're working on is not one that I have ever been able or willing to think on. It's plausible that you could nail the gamestate read, but I think you put way too much stock in the idea that certain townies can know for sure who the scum is and still get Cassandra'd into a loss. It happens, sure, but does it happen D1? I'm skeptical.

Are you crazy? No. Is your reasoning sound? Well, doubtful, but I'm not ruling it out.

[Something_Smart]

I was referring to you painting yourself as the townie who knows the truth but who can't get anyone to believe him (and yes you admitted you could be wrong but you're still pushing this archetype).

One thing you're not doing is trying to come to an understanding of why everyone else thinks morph is town-- do you already think you know that perfectly?

[Something_Smart]

Really dont like this actual push on morph now, it seems like its here as a distraction in that it seems self evidently not viable

Just because it's not viable doesn't mean that it's no more than a distraction.

(whee triple negatives)

[Something_Smart]

Go on

(I'll accept that maybe I just don't see the world the same way April sees the world)

Beyond a doubt, this is true.

My point was just that the wagon can produce useful information in the form of reactions, and I'm sure that April knew that when he made the vote because he's already mentioned multiple times that he doesn't want to try to execute morph today.

[Something_Smart]

I have to revisit but I feel like S_S, Alisae, Maria and April are the other circle.

That sounds about right, at least from my point of view (those are the players here I'm most familiar with). But everyone in this circle (except me lol) is a very strong scum player and it's not at all impossible for these four players to all townread each other and not all be town. I don't even know if we all do; if anything it's more like a {me, April} meta circle (line?) and a {Maria, Alisae} meta circle. I have mild townreads on all three but recognize that they are all better sorted later in the game with more information.

[Something_Smart]

Trying to meta plusjoyed has been like trying to build a 1:1 replica of the Sears tower on quicksand that is also on fire.

Probably that means that even if you keep it up long enough to get something out of it, that thing is going to be unreliable.

[Something_Smart]

Does everyone really think that their scum!familiars won’t do their damndest in this plist to subvert their scum meta, knowing that there are tight meta circles here with certain players having a good record of reading them?

With April, actually, I do think this, because in almost every game I've played with scum-him, I've caught him and he's gone on to win anyway. That's how he rolls.

But it's also a silly argument, because the whole point of meta is to use tells that you believe the person can't willingly manipulate.

[Something_Smart]

Like I said, he's got a good scumgame and it will probably be a few days before I have a confident read on him.

But yeah... if I say he's scum, and everyone else is saying he's town, you might want to listen to me

More likely though, he'll just kill me.

[Something_Smart]

Dancegame Anon II, was as simple as sorting by post count and eliminating from the bottom.

I still object to this, my postcount was only low because I went on V/LA and then came back to a wagon and went into antispew mode :X

[Something_Smart]

And my partner's slot was vacant for a while

[Something_Smart]

Bell, I have a question for you. How would you describe s_s's scum game?

I have thoughts but I want to hear this.

[Something_Smart]

I think he realizes that he might get elimmed soon, so is claiming something like this in fear.

Nah he does it a lot

Sometimes it's true, too

[Something_Smart]

I mentioned my conf town aspect a while back, and then as soon as I mention investigation, I get turned on.

Phrasing

[Something_Smart]

April is up a few at this point as well, I'm skeptical of him being this self-destructive as scum.

[Something_Smart]

And honestly just take 420 out of the list because that slot needs to be replaced before I will actually do anything with it.

[Something_Smart]

What town role does that?

VT?

[Something_Smart]

And what if they're more than that?

This does not strike me as the type of game to have a hidden code in the OP.

[Something_Smart]

Reread the unique flavor section of your role PM.

Did. Did not clarify.

[Something_Smart]

beeboy!

[Something_Smart]

indeed

[Something_Smart]

Where did he say it had to come from scum?

[Something_Smart]

@S_S why aren’t you scum this game? What have you not done/ done in this game that you would/wouldn’t do as scum?

First thing that comes to mind is the midway meta case.

Second thing that comes to mind is uhh probably acting natural around April instead of paranoid af that he's gonna bury me.

Third thing is idk there's no obvious third thing. If I've done real time interaction and not sounded like a robot, that's a point in my favor.

I've been trying to stay out of the S_S meta discussion (though I am very much enjoying reading it) but I am happy to answer anything that people trying to meta me want me to answer.

[Something_Smart]

Probably not that far off of my last stated readlist.

You and Mariaboy have probably dropped a bit? It seems like both of your slots have gotten quieter as more attention has been turned on you which is definitely > rand scum. The beeboy Ellitell also might be a thing.

[Something_Smart]

ah yes, confusion-inducing pagetops.

I forgot to mention that April rose. Perhaps like so?

morph
Bell, Bulge, +J, April
Tunnel, midwaybear
Muffin, Remilia, 420
Alisae, Maid Cafe

[Something_Smart]

I've been getting quieter? I feel like I've been posting more often as more attention has been turned onto me

But you haven't been doing more? idk it's nebulous and my memory could be flawed here. I believe that I'll see town-Alisae eventually if e's there, and I'll probably see scum-Alisae eventually if e's there but probably not for a while. So given that I don't really recall you doing anything I liked, despite posting more, that's probably grounds for a drop into nullscum.

[Something_Smart]

like how is this my scum game

I don't really know what your scum game is like? Have you ever been scum against me?

I know I've gotten a confident and correct townread on you multiple times in the past, and I didn't here.

[Something_Smart]

I'll probably see scum-Alisae eventually if e's there

I don't really know what your scum game is like?

before anyone says anything about this, I expect that if Alisae is scum there will come a time when I will realize it, even though I haven't experienced eir scum game (to my memory). I think I've more than once just clicked on a random game in lylo and read several Alisae posts and correctly called em scum. I know this doesn't count for much, but these statements are not in contradiction.

[Something_Smart]

What do you do in your scumgame?

[Something_Smart]

I have to admit us being at the top of your list is.... consistent with your prior list but I sort of expected more nuance or explanation.

I mean, you are really blatantly investigating things and pushing the game forward. If you're capable of that as scum, I'm certainly going to have to rely on people who know you better to figure that out. The way you're playing is pretty much exactly in line with what I remember from our previous games together; dated though that experience is, I joined this game partly to play with you guys because I was so impressed by you before.

[Something_Smart]

Alisae defending emself as scum:

A. I’ve been trying to find scum all game

Alisae defending emself here:

In my scum game I don't do nothing

Food for thought.

[Something_Smart]

I definitely like Alisae's indignance here. That is pretty much exactly what I would expect from town-Alisae.

[Something_Smart]

I can't speak for the others, Alisae, but you being self-aware of your own town/scum effort meta means that applying that template is useless here.

It's not entirely useless. Playing in a way that is more likely to get you wagoned is towny, even if you are aware of that, because if you're scum and you act weird and get wagoned people might just not buy the meta argument and kill you.

This incidentally is why I think April is townier. As scum he tries not to burn bridges too early and as town he'll just show up at the Golden Gate with a can of gasoline and a matchbook.

[Something_Smart]

Guess I didn't think we were on your radar all that much in past games.

I mean you were neighbors with us in the all-hydra game and I felt like I could barely give you anything because you would annihilate me with it if I did

And then there was the RC fake guilty in the board game one and risky though that was it definitely put you on my radar. Though I might be misunderstanding what you meant by this.

[Something_Smart]

What's not good about it? Do you disbelieve it?

[Something_Smart]

I'm curious if you think Plus and Alisae voting each other means anything.

It probably means that they scumread each other.

[Something_Smart]

If you were town, you probably could defend yourself with non meta things or you might not even be on the table at all. I guess it's not scummy, but it doesn't really do anything for me.

That's a lot more reasonable. The meta defense was specifically aimed at me because I've played with em before, so it makes sense that it wouldn't really have any effect on you.

[Something_Smart]

If you don't know Alisae's scumgame how do you know that being indignant is a unique property of Alisae's towngame in particular?

Well, I think it's how e would react as town because it's a pretty sensible way for town to react, meta notwithstanding, and knowing Alisae's personality me dropping em down for a bad reason seems like something that would annoy them.

If you're asking why it's not a property of eir scumgame, I never said it wasn't, because I don't know if e's capable of faking that.

[Something_Smart]

Have you played with scum-Alisae before?

[Something_Smart]

I don't feel like you're describing anything that's alignment indicative in that I think it's just "the thing you have to do when playing mafia" to an extent

I mean, there are definitely differences in the way someone will respond to a correct accusation versus a false one. There's a nonzero chance that Alisae would object more vehemently to my read change as town than as scum, even if the gist of the objection was the same.

[Something_Smart]

SS, protect me tonight.

Nani?

[Something_Smart]

I will be back in 30ish minutes after I make dinner

f o o d t e l l ?

[Something_Smart]

I don't detect even an inkling of paranoia from anyone besides midway who has interacted w/ this claim

Paranoia of what?

[Something_Smart]

Midway's point and 3133

Midway's point being that Alisae has received constant pressure since showing up? Why would that make people paranoid?

[Something_Smart]

I don't really think it's likely that Alisae claiming a PR would drive someone to counterclaim, unless maybe if e nailed the role exactly (but even then, people might be suspicious enough of Alisae that the PR wouldn't have to out).

[Something_Smart]

lol

[Something_Smart]

I feel he's extremely aware of the gamestate of the game, and is using Plus and Maria, in a team effort kind of way, to help boost momentum to certain areas of the game, IE, me, they boosted my momentum to go into their favor, and SS is exactly the type of person to be able to pull this off, especially with Maria who also knows who I am, and Plus the one in my town block.

I don't understand at all what you're accusing me of tbh

[Something_Smart]

And you should know that I coast as town too :3

[Something_Smart]

man, Something Smart's playstyle is just Azelf. Floating around, perfect partner. If pokemon were real, Azelf is definitely a top 3 partner pokemon.

Ish.

I have zero sway though when it comes to actually advancing my wincon as scum.

[Something_Smart]

Pick your side, Something_Smart.

Probably Maid? But I'm not really against either and there's still time.

[Something_Smart]

What's the benefit to doing that, though?

[Something_Smart]

The way it’s looking, you’re seeming to be a Day 3 level misfade, possibly even Day 2 based on the lack of action, and general POE’s. If you are town, why not take this chance to make a solidly town decision. Yes, you can be town and make the wrong decision, but that’s okay too.

And voting here is somehow going to change that?

It's not like voting is hard for scum to do.

[Something_Smart]

towncred if you make the right decision

I'm not looking for towncred. I'm not worried about being mis-exed.

[Something_Smart]

I'd have to imagine any benefit gained from me voting scum would be in equal measure a drawback if I vote town.

[Something_Smart]

I think you making an action can help many people’s read on you

I've heard this a lot, but I've rarely actually seen it. It turns out that when you know the action doesn't mean anything to me, it doesn't end up counting for a lot.

[Something_Smart]

@Alisae @S_S @Midway can you provide me with support on this?

eh probably. I'd rather the slot just be replaced but it doesn't seem like it's gonna allow that. just feels like a waste of a perfectly good game to spend a day policying a troll alt.

[Something_Smart]

Happy birthday Alisae

[Something_Smart]

This post spews Maid as scum probably.

Surely we owe them at least one day to confirm themselves?

[Something_Smart]

What's that?

[Something_Smart]

Isn’t this essentially a Normal game with flavor?

No?

[Something_Smart]

Maria asks me to replace into a game to play an alignment I hate that doubles as an alignment I literally suck at.

Idk why this one didn't occur to me to be honest.

I guess I wasn't quite aware of you sucking as scum.

[Something_Smart]

The roles are normal there are no bastard roles

Where does it say that? The Normal guidelines designate a special set of roles that are allowed in Normal games; the term Normal is not simply a catch-all for "not bastard".

[Something_Smart]

I just think suicide bomber does not make sense with a town flavor

Depends if the game flavors death as literal death or not.

But regardless it's certainly worth giving them a day.

[Something_Smart]

If they’re town it probably isn’t a good idea to shoot for a consensus shot given that the scum team get a say.

The scum team get a say in the execution too. So even if it lands on town it's likely someone we would have executed anyway.

[Something_Smart]

Thank you Something Smart

I didn't say the same thing as you.

[Something_Smart]

while we're talking about how bad it is to kill players everyone agrees on, when was the last time we all had a serious discussion about wagonning someone who is not mariab/alisae/420?

You mean wagoning someone who is not LHF? Blasphemy, that is not the mafia way

[Something_Smart]

i take it you think mariaboy is town now something_smart?

yes and even if I didn't the potential upside to giving them a day to prove would outweigh the potential downside.

[Something_Smart]

what do your scum reads look like now?

I don't know, I don't really have any. I wouldn't oppose killing 420.

[Something_Smart]

The thing is, I'm not sure i WANT that slot to be able to act, regardless. So if they're town, we saved ourselves from two players who couldn't be bothered to catch up OR even ask for the entire role PM, but somehow should be trusted to get a vig shot with even higher than average negative utility.

what

[Something_Smart]

Do you REALLY want a slot of those two being trusted with an elim entirely of their own choosing.... when they themselves have claimed apathy/lack of effort?

yes if they agree to be leashed and shoot a consensus scumread

[Something_Smart]

Even if they pick the very person scum was going to NK that night, it's still no worse than if we executed them.

[Something_Smart]

Maid cafe (not counting a single maria-solo post) has the same number of posts as 420 and prism combined. They intend to prod dodge their way to lategame, don't they?

I would think they intend to die D2...?

[Something_Smart]

I'm calling 420 slot a lurksack.

Understood. It was very much not clear from the post.

[Something_Smart]

I don't know that they intend to prodge until lategame.

But they do intend to ruin the game, and that's a pretty good way of accomplishing that.

[Something_Smart]

i would have preferred mariaboy be forced to flavour claim today rather than be given a night phase to come up with a convincing fake flavour claim

fake flavor claims exist...

[Something_Smart]

like, mod provided ones

[Something_Smart]

but not ones that fit made up claims

well I would imagine the made-up claim was already made up with the fake flavor in mind

[Something_Smart]

i mean, ok, if you believe that then there's literally no reason not to flavour claim right?

yes

[Something_Smart]

I'm gonna check out +Joyed overnight, and see if I can't get anything a little more clear-cut than I currently have on him (which is not much).

[Something_Smart]

and don't let them claim who they 'primed' because that just lets people go "oh no, don't do that!!!"

just make them do it with zero discussion

????? ? ? ? ? ?

what if the target is an investigative with results or something? or an IC?