Mini Theme 2164: Betrayal Mafia I (Game over!)

[Fun and Games]

This is a very exciting setup

I have many thoughts about mech-speculation.

Would you guys like to hear them or should we just begin executing people?

[Fun and Games]

The status of available permanent Rooms/LABS will be publicly announced at the beginning of the Day phase. The availability of permanent Rooms to interact with is publicly announced again at the end of the Day phase.

I do not believe this has been announced yet?

[Fun and Games]

I see I have somehow completely missed the existence of the dawn phase - I am quite bad at reading rules.

Should we mass-claim what we did last night and our motivations behind our actions?

[Fun and Games]

I have townpings on Penguin and Gamma, and the barest hint of a scumping on SirCakez

~ Games

[Fun and Games]

if it's for 35 i'm piggybacking off of this and pretending i posted it first

It

was

for 35!
(To be fair I'm pretty sure he only made the one post, but still)

~ Games

[Fun and Games]

I think everyone should claim what they chose to do last night, or at the very least if they chose to explore or not

VOTE: SirCakez

~ Games

[Fun and Games]

I have no problem saying it too - we explored
(This is a hydra btw)

It would be kinda silly to just start off by claiming only for it to devolve into it *just* being us claiming, no?

I kinda dont see why we *wouldnt* claim that. As far as I can tell there's no drawbacks (and nobody has shared any reasons why it would be a bad idea, either), so I'm not sure why we should be secretive about it. It's gonna be a mess of night actions anyways and setting a precedent of being open wrt what went on at night will help piece everything together later. I basically think the more info and knowledge we have the easier it will be to figure out what's going on

Also it's fallacious to say I'm asking for massclaim imo.

~ Games

[Fun and Games]

I'm with Gamma here tbh.

Also this is pinging me. ^

~ Games

[Fun and Games]

Wouldnt we want to try to coordinate that so we dont have 7 people trying to do that at the same time?

It's very very possible I missed something in the rules but i'm not sure why we'd want/need to hide that info?

Or like now there's 2 labs. What if 6 people pile on the first one and nobody goes to the second one?

Like I just dont fully understand what the benefit is to deliberately be secretive about everything

Also stats are public so wouldnt we just want to send the people with like the two highest knowledge scores to lab 1 and then the next two people to lab 2 (or some slight variation on this)?

(I'm saying like 2 people because if we just send one they can be scum and just not go and lie about it, but if two people are sent we'd need them both to be scum for that to happen)

~ Games

[Fun and Games]

My thing is like what if scum can mess with the people trying to destroy the labs?

Well if they're doing that they arent going yo be activating labs, no? Seems like an indirect way to try to utilize their night actions imo and would be a suboptimal way to spend the night.

Wouldnt we want to try to coordinate that so we dont have 7 people trying to do that at the same time?

I feel like you're reaching.

That's honestly kinda likely to happen if we dont coordinate. Maybe not 7, but for sure more people than we need

And i feel like you're trying to not understand my point and are pushing us for spurious reasons

Do u have a reason why we shouldnt just send the ~2 most knowledgeable people to each room?

Also penguin is like obviously town

~ Games

[Fun and Games]

For someone who chose to explore: were you given a specific room you found?

Yes, we were told which room

Wrt your question about the library, i had the same thought, and tried to ask lilith about that, and as best as I can tell, you do not get the benefit just from discovering the room, but i may have misworded the question/misinterpreted her answer

~ Games

[Fun and Games]

I'd like everyone to talk about whether they would have been the voice or not and why. Note: this is not a list of towniness, but rather an "If they were scum 100%, would they have chosen to be the neverlynch scum."

(Just gonna out this cuz i can tell i'm gonna get frustrated: this is skitter, *waves*)

In many permutations of the pl it's probably me
If there's some combination of like you, abr, pine and me being scum it might be up for debate, but i would also imagine that there would be elaborate distancing shenanigans

I think you're ranking pine too low, bu agree with your assessment of abr. Not sure what you mean by 103 tho

~ games

[Fun and Games]

I have been thinking about the setup and below are some of my thoughts so far.



I've played similar games where there are rooms etc and one way to find the bad guys is to have a running tally of actions etc.

It seems one way the scum could kill people is by attacking them at night as one of their actions - as room exploration, lab deactivation attacks are not public actions.

In lieu of a standard nightkill, the scum have an anonymous attack - they also could attack somebody directly if they believe they have a good chance of killing them as a dead person is unable to say anything.

They can also use their nightactions to attack a person directly,

For example the entire scum team could attack Bingle and if they succeed in dealing him enough damage - he would not be able to tell us who his attackers were as he is dead.

One way I thought of to deal with this is if we coordinate our night actions on rooms that provide verification.

For example if all of us were to use the gym - all of us would get a speed increase of 1 - scum who would try to do something evil would not get this speed increase and be exposed.


Also @Nosferatu - what happened to your knowledge? Did the scum use their factional ability to reduce it? This would put you very close to dying if I am reading the rules correctly and you should go to the library to fix this.


Also as for mech-speculation - I do not believe it is a priority to destroy the labs currently as our player count is quite high - it would make sense imo to have higher knowledge players destroy labs.

A player with a knowledge score of 3 has only a 10/27 chance of de-activating a lab successfully - and failure would be a wasted action on the part of the town. Also the lower the probability of success is, the easier it is for scum to do something evil and pretend like his night-action was to de-activate a lab when it really was not.


~Fun

[Fun and Games]

It also seems to me to be a priority to have a player with a very high knowledge stat that can reliably destroy labs now and later when they become activated - an activated lab has only a 1/27 chance of being de-activated by someone with knowledge 3 - but it is much better odds at knowledge 5-6.

This game is unique in that the scum do not have the ability to outright nightkill a player if I am reading the rules correctly - hence if we were to stack a universal town-read with knowledge items, that player could have a very high knowledge stat and do the job of destroying any labs we find. - In fact if I'm reading the rules correctly this would not even require a universal town-read - if for example a player has some innate profession that gives bonus to knowledge - we could stack them with knowledge items and use them to destroy any labs we find.

[Fun and Games]

however, i don't know how to feel about stacking a single player? like, say that the doctors decide to attack the stacked person one night; they use the factional attack, and then (presuming all are alive here) all attack the same person. if they're worried that they can't kill that night, they can just use their one-shot to make themselves anonymous and do the same thing tomorrow to kill them off, since at that point i think the odds would lean much more towards the doctors being able to kill whoever was stacked? also, whoever we try to stack up will most likely end up the target of the -1 knowledge loss each night.

This is a great point and I love the way you think about this from a risk-perspective. I will discuss with my better half about whether to town-slot you as she is much better at this game than I am.

The way I thought about the risk is - the mafia do not really have the freedom to use all their attacks on someone as long as there is a public room with stat modification and speed is low.

What I mean by this is - if say all players only had one action and we decided to have 11 players go to the library to study and 1 super knowledge item stacked player go disarm a lab. The mafia cannot deviate and attack the stacked player instead of going to study because then their stats will not increase the next day. Also the stack played would presumably have some kind of item that boosts his defense so that it would be riskier for the mafia to risk unveiling themselves just to attack them.

As far as I understand the rules - even if we were to stack a player - the items would not be "lost" per se if the player were to die - we can loot their corpse and stack another player so the risk is not that great.

The primary reason I like stacking is because it's much more effective to have 1 player with knowledge 5 or 6 attacking a lab rather than 5 players with knowledge 3 - the odds are just much much better. Also having multiple players attacking a lab gives mafia room to do bad things and lie about it as the probability of failure is reasonably high. Whereas if a stacked player with knowledge 5 failed to blow up a lab - it is much less likely.

[Fun and Games]

i feel a little better about stacking someone because... i was acting as if the items just vanished on death. but can't the doctors just try to steal them anyways? it might be obvious for some, but surely not all of them offer stat perks and won't be obvious who has them.

well I thought stacking items would make sense for the stat enhancing ones that we can see as we can enforce some kind of accountability for the action taken.

[Fun and Games]

Also @Nosferatu - what happened to your knowledge?

u calling me stupid?

I'm trying to figure out if the scum-team used their -1 knowledge ability on you or if you had some kind of game event involving knowledge reduction from the moderator.

Since you know what happened to you last night, I was hoping you would clear things up.

~Fun

[Fun and Games]

126 is a gross LAMISTY pile on to a gross LAMISTY sentiment. Yes, Nosferatu should try not to die. That's obvious, and there's no point to pointing out to Nosferatu except to try to look town, and Ydrasse was the second one to do it. 128 is seeking permission from the thread to do the obviously correct play tonight, which comes across as not wanting to be held accountable for her actions.

I disagree.

The rules section for this game is very long and I can definitely see someone missing the part about doctors being able to reduce knowledge by 1 each night or the part that if any stat is reduced to 0 it will result in death.

It's not at all helpful to attack people for pointing things out because the rules for this game are so long that I do not think any "interaction" is very obvious.

I've asked Nosferatu twice now about why his knowledge decreased and he still has not answered me so I can see him being oblivious or un-aware enough to not know he needs to increase his knowledge stat quickly to avoid death.

[Fun and Games]

i'm hard scumclaiming

I hope you feel better. I liked happy Ydrasse more.

[Fun and Games]

Fun and Games

Why are we so high?

~ games

[Fun and Games]

You've done things I think might be town.

Me or my other head?

Also sircakez is doing scummy things but i'm not sure it makes him scum? I'm kinda vacillating on this one back and forth

~ games

[Fun and Games]

I find it way way more likely that he's scum trying to fake a townslip than that he didn't look at any of the rules posts after having not remembered them but had read them in the first place WHILE ATTEMPTING TO ENGAGE IN SETUP SPEC.

I actually think the latter is much more likely than the former for him, and i dont really agree with ur reason for pushing him here

I'm aware that i'm currently voting him

~ games

[Fun and Games]

I'm on your wagon lol

Why is beeboy the leading wagon and i dont get why bingle is voting ydrasse and not on sircakez

~ games

[Fun and Games]

Because I think combination of the jump on to telling Nos to get knowledge after you'd already done so and the functional "Hey guys, is it okay if I do the thing that benefits me as town" is comparitively more scummy than the likelihood that Cakez is lying about the memory thing, the lack of scumhunting, and the dichotomy of jumping into setup spec and then backing down from setup spec without shifting gears. I'm tempted to vote cake because of the beeboy wagon, but I think it's fairly clear that I'm in support of either wagon and my vote on Ydrasse means more at the moment.

i'm feeling distinctly anti-mindmeld-y with you rn
i don't get scummy vibes from ydrasse much at all tbh

~ games

[Fun and Games]

can u actually switch to ydrasse im like 70% sure she's scum already

Can you elaborate please?

Thanks

[Fun and Games]

My impression of past games where we were both town is that we tend to clash on our views of the thread quite a bit.

And my wagon on Ydrasse is way more valuable if there are in fact dissenting viewpoints, so...

Who do you think is worth poking with pitchforks and why?

first sentence: i don't remember that being the case, but i could well be wrong!

last sentence: idk yet. it's a p slow game and i don't have enough info/data yet to be able to answer this satisfactorily; i don't have reads on a vast majority of the game yet

~ games

[Fun and Games]

Wagons are good.

Make another.

VOTE: Fun and Games
Okay

FOS: Gamma

y are you fos'ing gamma here?

~ games

[Fun and Games]

I think Bingle's scum tier list is a pretty townie thought process, it's a super weird angle to just open the game up thinking "I want to fake this".
I think comments on whether or not the list is accurate like CM1 and ABRs are totally null. Once the thought is on the table it's not a very hard one to add onto or go against.
So I guess it's not that what Bingle did was hard to fake or even risks there position as scum in some way long term. It's just abstract in such a way it's not something I think scum would care to fake.

i dont' have such great vibes from beeboy

~ games

[Fun and Games]

Y aren’t u?

didn't see ur vote a reason to fos you

~ games

[Fun and Games]

Okay, don’t think I can really contest that

this is not the kind of post that scum makes ^

~ games

[Fun and Games]

strongly disagree

[Fun and Games]

UNVOTE: ydrasse
ive actually changed my mind, i have no doubt in my mind that ydrasse is town after this post

i believe there is no way as scum at E-3 scum!ydrasse decides to make a post this bad

VOTE: Ydrasse

I think this has scum equity with Ydrasse. What should a scum post at E-3 even look like? This sounds like a really weird reason to get off the wagon.

Happy scumday GBailey.

Can you explain why you would continue this line if Nosf revotes her after this?

Also do you not like Ydra's posting or do you not like Nosf getting off her wagon?

[Fun and Games]

nos and cmod are both probably town
they're basically never scum together after the stuff on this page, as an aside

abr still feels weird

gonna move our vote here tho:

VOTE: georgebailey

~ games

[Fun and Games]

Time to commit to a vote.

This feels like a scummy post to me.

~Fun

[Fun and Games]

gonna move our vote here tho:

VOTE: georgebailey

Tell me more, tell me more.

Read on us is icky
Vote on ydrasse is super icky

~ games

[Fun and Games]

Cmod feels townie

~ games

[Fun and Games]

Wishy washy or hydra not all on same page? How many players are you, two? What does each believe, can you separate your reads individually for us to examine? Thanks

... all the posts u quoted there are mine

But we're two heads

I'm roughly at:
Good vibes: penguin, nos, cmod, ydrasse, provisionally jingle

Bad vibes: you, beeboy, georgebailey, sircakez

If i didnt mention someone i dont have an opinion

Idk exactly what my other head's reads are, but i think are biggest point of contention is that he scumreads nos (and i tr him).

But i think otherwise he either largely agrees with my reads or is null on someone i have a read on.

~ games

[Fun and Games]

This is largely due to my lack of desire to help any of the leading wagons and I feel like the hydra is fence sitting in such a way that just feels scummy to me.

Um ... ?
I strongly disagree with this assessment

~ games

Also i think i like gamma but i forgot why

[Fun and Games]

Read on us is icky
Vote on ydrasse is super icky

Pfft. But you two (Bingle) are the only few who have come up with good strategies for town. I dont really see why scum would give Town an advantage for the secondary win condition (The Labs).

Feels like the kind of townread scum slaps on me?
Do u think i cant do what i've done here as scum ?

~ games

[Fun and Games]

Does penguin always play like this?

i feel p good saying that this looks like his town-game

~ games

[Fun and Games]

GBailey can you please explain your thought process in 264 ?

What scum equity are you talking about? - if you think Nosferatu's reason for getting of Ydra-wagon is weird, why would you vote Nos instead of Ydra?

~Fun

[Fun and Games]

zzzzzzz this ydrasse wagon is boring can we vote like georgebailey or something?

~ games

[Fun and Games]

Why so? Most of what you've been doing seems townie. Like, yeah scum can fake mech talk, its expected in a mech heavy setup. But yours seemed pro-town in a way that would be more difficult for scum, or would be something they hide in the PT.

i really don't think it would be hard for scum to do this sort of mech talk in this sort of game

~ games

[Fun and Games]

why have we had like 5 claims already

~ games

[Fun and Games]

I could vote beeboy btw

~ games

[Fun and Games]

VOTE: pine
Let's shake this tree

Y not georgebailey ?

~ games

[Fun and Games]

I'm not really feeling the cakez thing anymore

~ games

[Fun and Games]

Each player's life story and background provides them with a unique special ability called a Career, which is not linked to their alignment.

I don't understand why people are reading anything into careers as it is stated by mod to be unrelated to our actual alignments

[Fun and Games]

I also find GeorgeBailey's reluctance to clarify his vote on Ydra very intriguing - feels very much like deer in the spotlights.

[Fun and Games]

You shouldn't vote me, I'm town.

This post feels almost like lazy-scum-ABR

[Fun and Games]

yay for wagoning georgebailey!

if he's scum it's the sort of game where scum is largely in the quiet people imo

~ games

[Fun and Games]

i've decided that i'm just outsourcing all mechanical analyses to like bingle or somebody similar and i'm not gonna worry about it too much

[Fun and Games]

those are intersting takes
u wanna elaborate?

~ games

[Fun and Games]

i kinda translated the result we got from lilith as us being roleblocked but it's a bit ambiguous so maybe it meant something else

~ games

[Fun and Games]

Ya

[Fun and Games]

I visited the Gym and was blocked.

I guess that makes sense because the game would be quite broken if they did not have a way to stop coordinated room visits to clear night actions

[Fun and Games]

if a town player did the blocking of the gym they should fess up now though - because it's important for us to know that scum is responsible for blocking a room imo as it would verify one of the scum abilities.

[Fun and Games]

did anybody not go to the gym? >.>

[Fun and Games]

i mean this is kinda why i like the notion of trying to coordinate actions, so that we don't all stack the same thing ...

~ games

(all signed posts are me)

[Fun and Games]

this is why you should do the nightaction decisions >.>

I'm dumb like that >.>

[Fun and Games]

VOTE: abr

[Fun and Games]

So Far:



not sure if beeboy was saying he was also going to gym

we are missing a few people - is everyone else still alive out there?

[Fun and Games]

I shall join u

VOTE: bingle

I also could vote abr, pine, and beeboy

~ games

[Fun and Games]

I confused George with Beeboy. Similar posting styles...

I'm still not sure that post made sense ...

[Fun and Games]

VOTE: abr

Again

[Fun and Games]

On the flip side if Pine is innocent and was framed we're going to lose one of the people with extra knowledge who could've disarmed a lab.

Also the idea of mafia deciding to pump up their own knowledge and then go flip open some labs feels kind of too straightforward to me - I'd feel they'd at least try to be sneaky about it.

I also find his explanation

No.

I also visited the gym. The prospect of bumping to 4 speed and having my action essentially refunded was too tempting

to be convincing - it feels like a real thought process that somebody blocked from getting the speed up would think of and not something a mafia would make up after the fact or pre-planned out.

My better half is currently VLA for the weekend so I have not had a chance to discuss this with her yet but I feel the speed with which this wagon has moved based on fairly flimsy evidence is concerning.

[Fun and Games]

Didn't Pine have 4 knowledge yesterday?

[Fun and Games]

VOTE: abr, for emphasis

i don't particularly agree with my other head on town!pine

~skitter

[Fun and Games]

Did you not know that activating/destroying labs with Knowledge was a key mechanic? Hell, if I were scum I'd either sabotage the shit out of someone (like Nos) or use a +1 Knowledge to frame someone.

I read this :

TEST SUBJECTS do not know what is required for the DOCTORS to activate a LAB.

And did not think it was obvious - I think the mod changed that post #4 because I don't remember reading it that way the first time I read through the rules.

[Fun and Games]

VOTE: abr, for emphasis

i don't particularly agree with my other head on town!pine

~skitter

Emphasis on what? You've been voting me all day.

a) i feel like you could be (significantly) townier
b) you're asking silly questions and saying silly things (you really have no townreads ?)
c) i've been trying to get a reaction out of you

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

@mod: unanticipated vla. Back Tuesday.

also i hope everything is ok

[Fun and Games]

worked out the probability of de-activating a lab with various knowledge statistics:



It's rather unlikely we are able to destroy activated labs without boosting someone to at least five-knowledge.

[Fun and Games]

also knowing what we now know about the scum having a room-blocking ability - I think it is likely that the first lab remained inactivated after N1 because scum used their roomblocker to keep out anyone who may have tried to destroy the lab - if this is true and nobody reported it, that kind of implies nobody tried to destroy the lab? which is kind of funny in some ways.

[Fun and Games]

a) i feel like you could be (significantly) townier
b) you're asking silly questions and saying silly things (you really have no townreads ?)
c) i've been trying to get a reaction out of you

~ skitter

@abr

[Fun and Games]

VOTE: johnny

[Fun and Games]

Oh did you vote and leave? Boring.

little things like 'my job' and 'work' got in the way

i'm around for a bit now tho

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

BR does seem a bit sus but in a towny way rn.

how is he sus in a ~townie~ way?

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

abr i've been trying to engage with you for a while now but i feel like you're not responding to me ...

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

isn't being abrasive just like ... part of his personality? i'm not sure that's ai for him

he's also, like, not really pushing anything, saying things that is kinda silly for this stage of the game (just like .... reread his iso, how much of it actually makes sense? i can pull quotes if necessary). he apparently is bemoaning the fact that he has no townreads when i think he should have at least a couple, but is doing nothing to get any, and is just floating and saying silly things

whereas pine's being like absent isn't super ai for him as far as i know

[Fun and Games]

Keep in mind this is my first game back after a hiatus, so what you're interpreting as scummy may just be me taking it easy.

Do you really not have any townreads ...?
i'm kinda having a hard time believing that a lot of what you're saying is coming from someone playing from a town mindsent

You made several posts while I wasn't here and then complained I wasn't getting back to you.

What's your top 3 scumreads?

a) several of my posts were in response to you posting ...
b) i literally listed my top three scumreads like a few pages ago and nothing has really changed since then, but ok. you, pine, beeboy's slot.

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

i was voting beeboy earlier at some point i'm p sure
at the very least i indicated i wanted to

and voting the slot when it's empty is kinda useless, no?

also when did you figure out the setup?
also why is pine scum?

[Fun and Games]

Say my name you coward. Why did you only vote me after i joined.?

Kind of hard to vote for Johnny before Johnny joins the game.

Would need to be some kind of time traveler for that.

[Fun and Games]

I'm still a little fuzzy on certain stuff (like where did you guys see the gym as a place you could go? I still don't know what rooms are available) But I read the opening post and am hip to most of the conjecture in thread.

Pine isn't trying. They've been caught and have decided not to defend themselves. The extra knowledge out of nowhere seals it. That came from scum, no question.

It's in Lilith's ISO.

If there's no question the bonus knowledge came from scum - what makes you think they would send it to their own team when it's public knowledge?

[Fun and Games]

i was voting beeboy earlier at some point i'm p sure
at the very least i indicated i wanted to

and voting the slot when it's empty is kinda useless, no?

also when did you figure out the setup?
also why is pine scum?

To clarify this is a hydra, i wrote this post and the 'beeboy's' slot post, and my other head wrote the two you're quoting

Beeboy was kinda absent all game, even when he had the slot, and i wasnt super convinced that voting him would do anything

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

I'm still a little fuzzy on certain stuff (like where did you guys see the gym as a place you could go? I still don't know what rooms are available) But I read the opening post and am hip to most of the conjecture in thread.

Pine isn't trying. They've been caught and have decided not to defend themselves. The extra knowledge out of nowhere seals it. That came from scum, no question.

Gym was in lilith's opening day1 (or dawn1?) post

I feel like you caught up on the mechanics p fast and i think that's more likely to come from scum than town

I'm kinda confused why you think pine not trying is ai for him, and also what you think he's been caught on

I dont think he really had any extra info

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

So what whaaaaat has changed? What made beeber scummy? And now that I'm here and talkative what do you hope your vote will accomplish?


P: I dunno what ai means, that lingo is either new to me or I've forgotten in the years since my last game

The vote was to indicate i didnt like your entrance, and to make you talkative so that i could sort you. Which seems to have worked, yay!

I feel like you're a bit caught up on the vote?

And hydra means there's more than one person posting on this account. The other dude wrote the posts you quoted above, i shall endeavor to be consistent in signing so that everyone can diffrentiate

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

I thought it looked fast on first blush, but I checked the timestamps and there was a 1 hour gap between JF asking about the info available and the next post where he'd gathered some. I personally think if JF were scum his buddies would have provided a more thorough explanation of what mechanical knowledge was available, and if that wasn't done initially he very well could have asked his questions in the scum thread.

To clarify - do u think the hour was too long to get help from the scum thread, or too short?

I kinda feel like someone may have posted a tldr there and he could have caught up, he caught up mechanically a little too fast on his own imo

Also i think clearing people for this sort of reasoning is kinda bad, i can point to an example i was in where scum repped in, got a super super quick tldr from the scum tjread, and everyone cleared him for this sort of reasoning ^

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

I mean votes are important, and yours hasn't gotten much use today.

I know what a Hydra is, "ai" is what I'm confused about. Alignment indicative? Did I just figure it out?

P: y'all are making me blush.

I'm p sure we've been voting all day?

Ai = alignment indicative - i dont think you've answered the questions about pine?

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

I think whether it was enough time to get it from the scum thread isn't the question, but if it was enough to get it from the main thread. Which I would say yes based on the level of comprehension shown.

Ok fair i see ur point but i thini it's more likely he got it from the scum pt

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

I'm more willing to believe that scum would set themselves up to succeed rather than give town extra ammo and hope they kill themselves with it

Also your vote was on Albert before fyi

Was this at me?

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

Yeah, i said we were voting for at least most of the day

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

No but he's finally responding to me so we're making progress ...

Didnt uou say he gives you the skeeves? Why is it a waste of a vote?

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

... are you talking about abr? If it creeps you out why is it problematic that i'm voting him ... ?

Probably give it to gamma

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

He started responding to me ...

You realize you're functionally voting pine for doing thr same thing that you're saying i voted abr for, right?

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

is Pine benefiting from scum action the primary reason you decided to put him at E-1 in your third post?

~not-skitter

[Fun and Games]

How would you know it was scum action if you didn't even read the setup?

[Fun and Games]

I'm very confused

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

I'm not sure how you make the leap from "I have a +1 knowledge ability" to "the scum have a +1 knowledge ability" without reading the setup.

It seems like a stretch to me. Your response time also felt like you were thinking hard about a plausible excuse for knowing about the scum factional ability despite claiming not to have read the setup.

Btw I do believe you when you say you didn't read the setup - I think you got the information from the scum-PT which would include their discussion on framing Pine by giving him +1 knowledge?

~not-skitter

[Fun and Games]

Actually fuck it, no reason to wait.

So I started this game as a pickpocket. Explored n0 and hit an event. The event threw my pickpocket career away and gave me the choice of two more, the teacher and the curator. These are all unique. Beb chose the Teacher, which i can use once to boost someone's knowledge.

This makes your explanation of why you assumed the scum would have this ability even worse.

[Fun and Games]

Because it shows you knew the ability could be acquired in the process of the game - which means it's not tied to alignment but rather to a random draw from the event deck. Hence making your assumption that it is tied to a scum role implausible given your knowledge at the time.

[Fun and Games]

Not following. I asked if it was unique to me and Lili said yeah.

If it's unique to you, why would you assume the scum have it?

[Fun and Games]

Aaaaaaaabbbbbbbrrrrrrrrr i feel ignored

Also hi that post is gross ^^^

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

I'm not reading everything. What do you want to know?

In general i'm trying to sort you.

We can start with the specifics of why you think we should be lynching pine rn, that would help.

Also i really, really, dislike you saying that we can just lynch pine cuz there's nearly enough votes for him when a) i have no idea why you're scumreading him and b) you're ignoring iks's reasoning that since he has a high knowledge score, that might be a bad reason to vote him out rn

Would you vote johnny?

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

My vague meta headcase on pine is that he can be useless for multiple days

[Fun and Games]

we're still sus of johnny but on balance feel worse about abr

VOTE: abr

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

we're still sus of johnny but on balance feel worse about abr

VOTE: abr

~ skitter

i meant the phrase in the sense of 'holistically' and not in the sense of 'wrt the setup'

why does balance implicate ABR?

I will probably attack Fun and Games tonight.

go on

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

i feel p good townbinning cakez tbh

[Fun and Games]

I think it's quite suspicious that ABR followed us onto Johnny - which would imply that he thinks our case on Johnny going after Pine had merit - this would imply that Pine is town by extension.

Now that we've changed our mind after some debate, ABR has switched back from Johnny to voting Pine instead - a complete 180 and putting Pine back at E-1.


~Not Skitter

[Fun and Games]

Let's get a hammer going. I'm ready.

So many posts of mine that you're ignoring

I'm still kinda baffled why the pine wagon is a thing, or why you're treating it as inevitable

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

Read the damn game to know why Pine wagon is a thing

Both of us have read the game multiple times.

We understand the reasoning behind the Pine push. We just think it's really bad.

Like you think scum purposefully put +1 Knowledge on their OWN player on N0 so that he could more easily activate labs right?

The simplest counterpoint to this theory is that stats are public knowledge and it doesn't make sense to sacrifice a scum-player just to activate a lab.

More importantly -

labs do not matter this early in the game

There are currently at least 8-9 town players (3-4 scum) and only TWO labs activated - which means the bad guys are nowhere close to fulfilling their lab activation victory condition.

This means we have plenty of time to de-activate these activated labs - at least a few night-phases- though ideally we would just kill the bad guys and win the game that way. The best chance the town has to de-activate these labs is to have high knowledge players try to deactivate labs - so shouldn't we at least give Pine a chance to de-activate these labs instead of just yeeting him? If he fails like multiple times then your case for yeeting him gets much better.

[Fun and Games]

All my games are updated in my wiki.

Voting me is counter-productive to me solving you. My power is my night time attack. If I find a weapon it becomes even more powerful. I could probably 1-shot some of you with good dice rolls. I plan on solving this game alone and doing what's necessary to win. You're either with me or against me.

Can you be more specific about your power? It would really help us solve your slot.

[Fun and Games]

I'm a vig, better than even chances to one-shot a 3-3-3 player, if I get a weapon it becomes almost certain to one-shot them unless they roll perfectly.

Do you get a bonus to your attack role or a bonus to damage dealt? I'm curious to the mechanism.

[Fun and Games]

There is nothing alignment indicative in me describing the mechanic of my attack.

The reason I wanted to know is because the scum have a factional attack that any of them could use.

Spoiler:

DOCTORS do not have a factional nightkill. Instead, DOCTORS have an additional factional attack they can use once per Night (in addition to their personal actions) by nominating one of the DOCTORS to perform the attack. The attack counts as an additional action for that DOCTOR and the nominated DOCTOR can use any stat modifications, abilities, etc. in their possession on this attack in addition to any personal attacks made.

If you are a powered attacker or w/e - it would make sense for you to be the one using the cloaked scum factional attack and it would not make sense for you to reveal it.

Furthermore because we know the scum factional attacker did damage to Gamma and it was only 1 point of damage - it would rule you out as the attacker if your special ability is some kind of damage multiplier.

Secondly Gamma knows the roll info of the scum attacker - so if you have some kind of +dice or +roll advantage built into your attack, Gamma's knowledge might also rule you out as the attacker in question if the scum roll was low etc.

[Fun and Games]

Wait why is everyone afraid of us?

I'll do one too!

Town: penguin, gamma, cmod
Slightly lesser town: iks, nos, bingle, sircakez
Idk: ydrasse, pine
Scummy: abr, johnny

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

Maybe, but when he was posting it was transparently town, and he had some vla in between

[Fun and Games]

Wait why is everyone afraid of us?

I very much want an answer to this ^

[Fun and Games]

Wait why is everyone afraid of us?

I very much want an answer to this ^

Sigh

@ abr

[Fun and Games]

It's probably nothing and F&G is town. But I'm more 50-50 on him.

To clarify you mean that we're too hard to wagon?

[Fun and Games]

At least for me it's not fear, it's just that skitts has a wide scumrange and she hasn't approached stepping out of it. Unless you're wondering about a lack of interaction in which case I just haven't seen/had time to interact much with you.

like i know that ^
and you know that ^

but as far as i know, abr has no particular reason to think that of me, so was wondering where he got that imprssion from

i also haven't, like, played as hard as i could here either


~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

Or really hard at all

perhaps

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

Tomorrow is going to be ~ridiculous if Pine still lives but VOTE: Fun and Games

Are you going to bother posting something for me to respond to?

[Fun and Games]

Fun and Games, Bingle, PenguinPower, SirCakez, Ydrasse, Pine, Nosferatu

the bad ones were ydrasse, pine, and nos's, in that order
(i'm kinda on the fence about nos's )

i think i was townreading ydrasse yesterday, but i am no longer

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

VOTE: gb

i would be lying if i said i had been keeping up terribly with this game.

uh, i think that again trying to stack all of our night actions/items/etc isn't the best idea because 1) i think that town and scum probably have better reasons to deviate or even inabilities to attack, at least on townside? it's a possibility though this is speculation based on what i can do. 2) scum will... very obviously see us planning this publicly and i assume will be able to like. do something about it, lmao. i think that it's better to target the labs since they're not able to take actions to defend themselves in the same way that scum are.

this is roughly where i stopped townreading her ^

she's basically stopped paying attention to the game and is basically very much going with the flow and just joining the largest wagon ... because ?
if there's scum on the wagon this is kinda a proto-typical vote from scum who's just trying to slide on cuz it's the ~currrent cool wagon~ and they wanna help it along

she's had basically no improved content since

why are you townreading her?

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

i've been vla a lot over the past couple of weeks, sorry
this weekend will be the last

also i've been realizing that i'm not super great with mechancis as town and it's just easier to outsource it tbh; basically all the mechancis posts from this account other than the very, very early ones have been my other head

also @jf i thought i asked this but the post didn't post apparently: why are you scumreading us again?

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

i think penguin's day1 is out of his scumrange tbh

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

Penguin vote F&G while I go find the posts to tell you why

can you give me the key highlights on why we're scummy in like 2-3 sentences?

(also, aside, i think you've pegged us as a lot easier to wagon than we actually are ...)

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

i think penguin's day1 is out of his scumrange tbh

~ skitter

That's also not true tbh.

You trying to pull a Bingle on me?

well, so far as i know how to read you you are?
idk you look a lot more like your towngames than your scumgames to me imo

your scumgames are a lot more stilted, less opinionated, less speaking-about-reads in-real-time, and you have more of a fluffy presence
(i mean you have a fluffy presence here too but there's also actually content, and it doesn't need to be pulled out of you, that's the difference)

~ Skitter

[Fun and Games]

i miss irrelephant

[Fun and Games]

johnny can u explain why you're scumreading me before you iso me and write up a case off of what you find there?
otherwise i'm gonna think you've decided that it was convenient to scumread me and that you're using the casing to come up with evidence to support the position you've decided to take

you're voting me, and trying to get others to vote me, you must have some reason why you're scumreading me, no?

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

i don't!

[Fun and Games]

Filing all of these prods at ABR (there are lots) under uselessposting

kinda hard to sort someone who's ignoring me
overall feeling kinda unimpressed with your thoughts on our iso

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

We suspected you initially because of your entrance into the game.

About 1 hour after you replaced in you placed pine at E-1 - which seems to not be enough time to us for you to adequately read a 25 page game especially with tricky mechanics.

E-1 is also a pretty significant vote - we thought it was strange you'd make that move so soon after replacing into the game.

Also according to you - you thought that Pine was worth being yeeted based just off the fact that he had extra knowledge - however you also said you did not read the setup so it was strange you would know that the scum have the ability to give extra knowledge.

When pressed about how you would know that scum have the ability to give extra knowledge - you claim it is because you had the ability to give knowledge hence no other town role could have it, hence scum have it, hence scum gave it to Pine, hence Pine is scum. This requires a long stretch of assumptions that we find implausible and stretchy.

When you voted us, we expected you to have a reason off the top of your head - but when asked you had to dive through our ISO to look for reasons - making us think you did not have good reasons for pushing us and are just looking for excuses after the fact.

Furthermore your reasons given after the fact are quite weak and do not really make much sense.

~Not Skitter

[Fun and Games]

Sorry for being awol.

Feeling a bit lost without Skitter - she will be back tonight though.

Welcome to the new guests.

@ABR

I respect the effort, but your slot will need to flip for info.

What information will you get from Chara's flip?

[Fun and Games]

not good

Not good = mistakes

OR

Not good = they're partners

P:Edit: I like this VOTE: Bingle with one eye still on the Hydra

I don't think we ever changed our vote back

VOTE: johnny

your case on us was poor, and you basically have no reason to scumread us as far as i can tell
you read through our iso in an attempt to make up reasons to push us, and you're basically joining any old wagon as they form

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

In saying that, if Pine/Bingle/F&G flip scum then I'm happy for them to attack in that trio

oh do go on

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

i haven't experienced whiplash like the kind i got from that post in a while.

chara !!!!

hi !!!

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

hello Gamma and Bingle and whoever else i know who's on this list, it's lovely to see you.
1126 is interesting. do you townread this slot?

yes, and i do not want to wagon iks

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

Has your read on Penguin evolved at all since a week and half ago?

is this @me?

if it is, no.
him being boring for like a week doesn't change the fact that he was obviously town day1

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

He's scum. Let's get this wagon on IKSF rolling.

You say you want a chara flip but once chara starts racking up votes, you immediately try to start a new wagon. what's up with that?

^

[Fun and Games]

We can lynch IKSF or Penguin. Make your choices.

i'm gonna be stubborn and say no, those are awful choices, and i decline them

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

yes, and i do not want to wagon iks

Why not?

he's been lowkey townie and the sudden push on him is p classic deadline push on a lowhanging fruit that nobody is explaining how or why the slot is scummy

i will not support it and will protest the whole way down

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

Spoiler:

some people would infer from my behaviour that i obviously don't feel like im in danger of dying

I have to defend cmod here.
I think cmod should use the ability on himself/ his strongest townread to raise speed or on Gamma to raise strength (if I interpret that speed drop correctly).

How likely is it that Gamma-scum put a +1 knowledge on Pine n0 to set him up, and when no one else mentioned it, brought it up himself on d2?

Based on the fact that he lost speed, visited library and 2 labs were activated - not very likely.

Pine is scum because he has 4 knowledge, knowledge makes it easier to activate labs, 2 labs were activated and only scum can activate labs. Also, people don't townread him and since our friends ended day 1 quickly, we are still in late RVS. At least where it comes to non-mechanical stuff.

Scum don't have night kill. Actually, town have more night actions than scum, so night phase is somewhat as good for town as scum. Which means that there are 3-4 scum. My theory is 3 scum + traitor/ 3p or 4 scum.

Note: this game had nightstart
Gamma recieved knowledge today. Scum decreased knowledge of Nosferatu (he claimed), so if Nos is town, Gamma had to visit library. If Nos is town, he will die soon, so it is self resolving. Cmod went exploring and recieved item -> didn't activate lab. Also, he claimed ability to be able to raise 1 stat. I scum could make a better use of that ability that to claim.

@cmod

what did you do n0?

Gamma, nor cmod aren't conf town, but they are mechanically townleans and should be lynched with lowered priority.

Premise: multiple people are considering attacking someone at night.

Because there are no idle labs and Pine is one of the few people who can actually destroy already activated ones, it could be a good idea to attack Pine at night and lynch someone else. Considering someone has a scumlean who isn't Gamma/ Nos.

Premise: multiple people are considering attacking someone at night.

Because there are no idle labs and Pine is one of the few people who can actually destroy already activated ones, it could be a good idea to attack Pine at night and lynch someone else. Considering someone has a scumlean who isn't Gamma/ Nos.

We almost have enough votes for Pine. We can just lynch him. Who would you attack if you were me?

My point was, that if there are two scummy people and we have people who want to attack at night, we should lynch the other person and kill Pine at night, to give him chance to destroy labs. There are no idle labs, so we aren't risking

that

much.

It is still early for me to have reads, but if I had to attack, I would attack Cakez.
2 Strength, voted George, was counterwagon to George, no solving in his ISO, wasn't attacked by maf tonight even though he had 2 strength.

he's been very quietly saying the right things at the right tiem and overall is just full of good sense

also 796 in particular was very good

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

Thanks

anytime!

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

Weak? Yes. Dark motivations? No. I've been pretty up front about not voting penguin, Albert, etc. People keep wagoning those i suspect

dude you made a whole thing about finding us scummy, couldn't say why, and when you read our iso to try to justify your read couldn't really come up with anything

you understand why that looks bad, no? and why that looks to me like you were trying to justify your push on us

also weren't you scumreading albert earlier? and indicated you were willing to push/vote him?

also you keep flipping your vote, and seem to lack conviction over anything ...

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

I'm also made nervous by, and thereby not joining this iks wagon tyvm

that doesn't really match your progression on him ... you keep making a point of calling him scummy / putting him in your pool

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

Thoughts on Bingle while you’re here?

me?
i'd put him on the +town side, i guess, but not with super high confidence
woudln't vote him today tho

my other head thinks he's scummy but we discussed it at length and we ultimately agreed that the things he's scumreading him for are nai

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

Yeah and I also said I might be feeling omgus (thats the term right) and asked others to look into our interaction. And no one did, so I lost wind

P-edit : Iiii know! I'm really geostationary by this whole iks situation

where did this even happen ???!

we ultimately agreed that the things he's scumreading him for are nai

What are those things?

primarily my other head thought his setup spec/knowledge was scummy in a tmi way
but he's enver played with him i think and we talked about how i thought it was p par for the course for him, and not really unusual, and we settled on that bit not being scummy for him

that was the main driving factor of his scumread on him

Geostationary = frustrated idk WHAT my phone is on

lol i agree

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

Agree, and I’ve said as much that setup spec is nai for Bingle. What about his voting pattern versus statements?

not sure i know what you're getting at with this?

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

Also @everyone else I think I might be falling into "how dare this person suspect me" territory in regards to the questions they asked me while trying to sus me out or whatever, could someone less biased take a look?

so you just dropped the whole thing cuz nobody answered you ... ?

[Fun and Games]

lemme reskim bingle
agree he should not get townpoints solely for mechanics

[Fun and Games]

Wind, sails, gone, etc.

:/

[Fun and Games]

wrt bingle, i can see your point, but i'm not sure i find it as compelling as you do
i think his push on gamma is more cause for concern

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

yeah but johnny is like significantly more scummy and i wanna be stubborn and still be voting there

pedit because gamma is kinda obviously town and bingle's case is based on a whole lotta assumptions that i'm not sure hold

[Fun and Games]

penguin do u feel very strongly that bingle is scum?

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

Mainly F&G/Pine slots, but I feel like there's something up with these that makes me feel super sus of them as being scum partners, just they seem to be working together

I'm not sure how we could be working with Pine when his presence in thread is close to non-existent.

[Fun and Games]

DEADLINE IS IN 8 HOURS PEOPLE, WAKE UP AND VOTE

VOTE: Penguin

Yes, placing the second vote on a wagon when you think there's 8 hours left makes a lot of sense

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

pedit because gamma is kinda obviously town and bingle's case is based on a whole lotta assumptions that i'm not sure hold

I don't see this

Which part

[Fun and Games]

ok now that we have a day and a bit left, can we work on coalescing on a non-awful wagon?

pedit i would compromise on chara if necessary, but i think we should be voting johnny

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

Ok fair

But from my pov yhe fact that i cant get more than like two votes on johnny is incredibly weird, especially since when i was pushing a mislynch yesterday, scum were clearly more than happy to help it along ...

Like why isnt it happening today?

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

Ya that's kinda what i'm thinking

[Fun and Games]

The *abr approved wagons* are on people i think are town too

[Fun and Games]

Remember how last time you asked me to vote Johnny, I did it, and then you voted me?

No wonder nobody is joining you now.

You're scummy tho, and i kinda doubt that's why nobody is joining me

[Fun and Games]

Can we plz wagon him now ... ^
I really dont think he's this bad

[Fun and Games]

...

[Fun and Games]

So we're doing Bingle then?

... how is that the conclusion of the past several posts ...

[Fun and Games]

without even trying

You definitely aren't trying very hard.

[Fun and Games]

You know what would be twisted? If Johnny was your buddy and you asked me to vote him only to then chainsaw defend him by voting me and ruining the momentum on the bandwagon you said you wanted originally. Either way I'm good with all 3 of you with preference being penguin.

So we started a wagon on johnny and started interrogating him in order to lure you into voting Johnny so that we could turn on you instead? Why didn't we just keep our vote on you in the first place?

This is a very big brain play you've laid out.

[Fun and Games]

Bingle, do u know how to read abr ????

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

Bingle that is a remarkably scummy string of posts

[Fun and Games]

Penguin i may be convinced
Hmmm

[Fun and Games]

Remind me what noraa does again ?

[Fun and Games]

Maybe we should flashwagon noraaa

Why are all of u so scummy ....

[Fun and Games]

Hmmmmmm

[Fun and Games]

Everyonr except like you, gamma, and cmod

[Fun and Games]

Bingle you're voting noraa

link to next VC (post 1375)

[Fun and Games]

oh right
i think abr was alluding to more of a ~damage/attack multiplier~
i don't think it's exactly the same as noraa

i do think that this genre of 'multiple/more powerful' attacks is more likely to be for scum tho

[Fun and Games]

bingle you fighting me on this is scummy too and isn't really helping your case

[Fun and Games]

maybe tbh i don't fully understand the mechanics and it's possible i'm not parsing that properly

[Fun and Games]

bingle who do you even townread then ...

[Fun and Games]

bingle who do you even townread then ...

Nos. Vaguely I think iks is probably town, but that's not a hill I'd die on.

i'm kinda disappointed

[Fun and Games]

tbf i literally read the abr thing and noraa thing and have no idea how they overlap or how they're related

[Fun and Games]

bingle can we talk about why you have literally no townreads?
this is alot more interesting to me than the mechanics thing

[Fun and Games]

Oh right sircakez can be town too

Now what should i do with the rest of you ...

[Fun and Games]

i'm kinda disappointed

You're kinda disappointed because you think I should have more townreads? Who should I be townreading here? You? ABR? Pineslot?

Like... I don't have reads because I haven't seen things that really strike me as indicative. This entire PL has been a big ball of null, myself included. The fact that we haven't been able to get a wagon past two or three players other than the wagon on the guy who posted like three times total and then lurk replaced kinda proves my point.

... we've had two gamedays and you're telling me you have 1.5 townreads
yeah like more than half the game has been a big ball of lurk but:

- you basically don't have any reasons for voting penguin outside of omgus
- i believe that town!you can do better than literally having 1.5 townreads at this stage

[Fun and Games]

Spoiler:

We can lynch IKSF or Penguin. Make your choices.

i'm gonna be stubborn and say no, those are awful choices, and i decline them

~ skitter

yes, and i do not want to wagon iks

Why not?

he's been lowkey townie and the sudden push on him is p classic deadline push on a lowhanging fruit that nobody is explaining how or why the slot is scummy

i will not support it and will protest the whole way down

~ skitter

Spoiler:

some people would infer from my behaviour that i obviously don't feel like im in danger of dying

I have to defend cmod here.
I think cmod should use the ability on himself/ his strongest townread to raise speed or on Gamma to raise strength (if I interpret that speed drop correctly).

How likely is it that Gamma-scum put a +1 knowledge on Pine n0 to set him up, and when no one else mentioned it, brought it up himself on d2?

Based on the fact that he lost speed, visited library and 2 labs were activated - not very likely.

Pine is scum because he has 4 knowledge, knowledge makes it easier to activate labs, 2 labs were activated and only scum can activate labs. Also, people don't townread him and since our friends ended day 1 quickly, we are still in late RVS. At least where it comes to non-mechanical stuff.

Scum don't have night kill. Actually, town have more night actions than scum, so night phase is somewhat as good for town as scum. Which means that there are 3-4 scum. My theory is 3 scum + traitor/ 3p or 4 scum.

Note: this game had nightstart
Gamma recieved knowledge today. Scum decreased knowledge of Nosferatu (he claimed), so if Nos is town, Gamma had to visit library. If Nos is town, he will die soon, so it is self resolving. Cmod went exploring and recieved item -> didn't activate lab. Also, he claimed ability to be able to raise 1 stat. I scum could make a better use of that ability that to claim.

@cmod

what did you do n0?

Gamma, nor cmod aren't conf town, but they are mechanically townleans and should be lynched with lowered priority.

Premise: multiple people are considering attacking someone at night.

Because there are no idle labs and Pine is one of the few people who can actually destroy already activated ones, it could be a good idea to attack Pine at night and lynch someone else. Considering someone has a scumlean who isn't Gamma/ Nos.

Premise: multiple people are considering attacking someone at night.

Because there are no idle labs and Pine is one of the few people who can actually destroy already activated ones, it could be a good idea to attack Pine at night and lynch someone else. Considering someone has a scumlean who isn't Gamma/ Nos.

We almost have enough votes for Pine. We can just lynch him. Who would you attack if you were me?

My point was, that if there are two scummy people and we have people who want to attack at night, we should lynch the other person and kill Pine at night, to give him chance to destroy labs. There are no idle labs, so we aren't risking

that

much.

It is still early for me to have reads, but if I had to attack, I would attack Cakez.
2 Strength, voted George, was counterwagon to George, no solving in his ISO, wasn't attacked by maf tonight even though he had 2 strength.

he's been very quietly saying the right things at the right tiem and overall is just full of good sense

also 796 in particular was very good

~ skitter

^^^

[Fun and Games]

whoops i broke the spoiler

[Fun and Games]

see broken spoiler

[Fun and Games]

Weak? Yes. Dark motivations? No. I've been pretty up front about not voting penguin, Albert, etc. People keep wagoning those i suspect

dude you made a whole thing about finding us scummy, couldn't say why, and when you read our iso to try to justify your read couldn't really come up with anything

you understand why that looks bad, no? and why that looks to me like you were trying to justify your push on us

also weren't you scumreading albert earlier? and indicated you were willing to push/vote him?

also you keep flipping your vote, and seem to lack conviction over anything ...

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

what about i keep siteflaking? nobody townreads him

Seriously skitter? You're telling me you townread this?

...
i'd have preferred a response wherein you explained the bad penguin vote or you explain how you only have 1.5 townreads at this stage

(aside i do think i am kinda close-ish to being out of my scumrange)

[Fun and Games]

also i really want chara and noraa to, like, say things before day's end

[Fun and Games]

There was also this whole thing where skitter thought that Johnny was faking being behind on the mechanics and slipped about knowing that scum had an ability to give knowledge.

The counter argument, of course, is "why would Johnny who wants to clear himself based on role redundancy outright say that his role came from a random room event?"

i don't understand the counter argument

[Fun and Games]

what do you mean by "right things at the right time"? I'm not really seeing it. and your argument that he's a LHF last minute push doesn't really hold water because there's no wagon there

- idk how else to explain it other than that ... he's just very quietly saying commonsense +town things that at the time/in context are very good. 796, at the time it was written, was just that sort of post
- multiple people out of nowhere last night/yesterday were suddenly into the iks thing

[Fun and Games]

bingle unfortunatley i think i need to vote you at this time

[Fun and Games]

he's been very quietly saying the right things at the right tiem and overall is just full of good sense

shouldnt this be the average level of play

theoretically, but that doesn't mean you actually get that level of posting out of most players ...

[Fun and Games]

i'd have preferred a response wherein you explained the bad penguin vote or you explain how you only have 1.5 townreads at this stage

I only have 1.5 townreads because I can see literally all of the people as scum. It's not a difficult concept. I voted Penguin because of all the people who I think are legitimate options for today, he's the one that I think is the best elimination for the ability to win the game. (

since when is this an accurate description of penguin

) He's not likely to do much of anything while I'm around. (

why? since when is this a thing?

) I'm not likely to do much of anything while he's around. He, just like just about everyone, could very well be scum.

no, he's p clearly out of his scumrange and i think i talked about this at least three times already. handwaving the towniness away as 'well he might just be scum' without having any concrete examples is bad and omgus-y

He's done absolutely nothing town indicative (

wrong

), and dealing with his perpetual tunnels on me is just getting exhausting, tbh. It's not even really his fault, I just don't have enough motivation to deal with it even though I usually enjoy our banter.

[Fun and Games]

VOTE: bingle

obviously if bingle is scum, penguin is not

[Fun and Games]

Eh. It's a C9++ situation.

in what way?

[Fun and Games]

but if ur not scum i don't want to vote you
there's too many scummy people to waste on elim on someone who isn't actually scum :/

[Fun and Games]

a) there's a distinct lack of tunneling you in that game
b) there's a lot more fluff/flippancy in relation to the amount of content he put out there, and a lack of conviction, and i would say that this is game is just the opposite. incidentally, i think behaving in the former way is strongly indicative of scum!him, and behaving in the latter is strongly indicative of town!him

[Fun and Games]

There's a chance it's bias. But that's kind of also my point.

?

sigh