Mini Theme 2182 - Legends of the Hidden Temple III - Over!

[VP Baltar]

i can't shake the feeling it's gamma

If lillith flips red, it is absolutely gamma.

walk me thru that

I think gamma sluffed off Agar pressure and on to lillith too easily when nothing had changed in the game state except me giving my feelings on all the players.

Given the overall general lack of activity right now, I suspect gamma may have given more weight to my arguments than is broadly popular. It was also a bit hand wavy to unvote and say "lillith better do something or else!"

He could have also just had second thoughts, of course, but we can talk about that after a flip.

[VP Baltar]

Bulge, I'm getting mixed signals on who you might prefer from this lim pool. Help me out here

[VP Baltar]

Waiting for an AGar case, day 38.

[VP Baltar]

Thanks for posting. I have thoughts, but I'll let Agar respond first.

[VP Baltar]

Reck and I had been discussing in our PT that AGar's interactions with us feel off.

Reck, you think lillith or agar is more scummy here?

Also, where is Pooky's moral outrage?

[VP Baltar]

Using PT to talk about the game = bad. Or did you forget that bullshit point already?

[VP Baltar]

Reck and I had been discussing in our PT that AGar's interactions with us feel off.

Reck, you think lillith or agar is more scummy here?

Also, where is Pooky's moral outrage?

lillith but that's mostly based on me having a drunken moment of clarity a week or so ago off an agar post and just writing him off as town in my head for sanity's sake

When did this happen? When were you and UT saying he was pinging you?

Actual dates would be good

[VP Baltar]

Wtf is lillith at the bottom of your pool UT? That's kind of bonkers.

[VP Baltar]

Have to say Baltar does not look great for repeatedly asking for a case and then deferring to Agar when it arrived

Well dang, no I do not.

[VP Baltar]

Sadly, I didn't agree with the case broadly. Maybe on some of the smaller points. I was just wrong.

[VP Baltar]

but vpb what the hell were you doing with reck/pooky/ut there?

With UT/Reck, I was just trying to understand their positions and how they came to them specifically because what UT was saying didn't feel like it was lining up with Reck since I got the sense Reck wanted lillith more.

With pooky, I was just making a petty jab because I stand by my original point that talking in the PTs isn't anti-town necessarily.

I'm pretty interested to hear from Starbuck today before the challenge as well.

[VP Baltar]

I'm willing to challenge the iguanas again to make it me and gamma.

[VP Baltar]

I'm going to assume Cakez is onboard given his previous post.

Green Monkeys challenge Orange

dragons

Iguanas

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: gamma

It accomplishes a resolution. I think a reasonable number of people suspect you gamma. It's also understandable that people would suspect me after i wasn't really into the Agar wagon. I'm not having that much fun in this game, tbh, so let's make it exciting, and if I die, at least people will know I was town.

[VP Baltar]

What does that accomplish? Why not let some other person step up and that way there’s a new set people are taking stances on?

dont be a coward fight him

Have you considered.....

[VP Baltar]

considered what

That your partner is scum

[VP Baltar]

What does that accomplish? Why not let some other person step up and that way there’s a new set people are taking stances on?

dont be a coward fight him

Oh I’ll fight for my life, but you’re not out of the equation either.

We aren't yeeting pooky today. Me or you son.

[VP Baltar]

I'm just talking about today. I think one of our yeets is the most informative/likely to reveal scum.

[VP Baltar]

what if i want to yeet all 3 of them?

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

You saucy mother...

[VP Baltar]

I think a both-scum theory actually fits pretty well with gamma (and also vp to an extent? don't remember exactly) insisting that the pool was all town

Lillith, still scum y'all.

[VP Baltar]

I think a both-scum theory actually fits pretty well with gamma (and also vp to an extent? don't remember exactly) insisting that the pool was all town

Lillith, still scum y'all.

this post would be hilarious if all 3 of them were scum

What if everyone is scum but you pooky! What then!

[VP Baltar]

what the fuck happened to this, though?

I changed my mind/got bored. This is more fun.

I can't believe you're calling Cakez scum when he was pretty key in Agar wagon.

[VP Baltar]

My mommy is going to be very upset

[VP Baltar]

Where is starbuck?

[VP Baltar]

I think a both-scum theory actually fits pretty well with gamma (and also vp to an extent? don't remember exactly) insisting that the pool was all town

welcome back. why does that implicate two scums instead of just one? you should try to remember your reasoning for vp and let's talk.

I thought I recalled both of them saying that the pool was all town, which feels like a pretty easy out to not sort each other. Just went back through VP’s posts and he was actually doing some light shading at gamma towards the beginning of the day that didn’t really seem to go anywhere, then only joined the noraa wagon after she had turned on him and was being wagoned (and his desire for a gamma elim disappeared around the same time).

Are you saying gamma is scum?

[VP Baltar]

Yes, you say we are both scum. That is about asinine as pooky logic.

I, as scum, actively challenged my buddy in a 1v1 following a scum flip.

[VP Baltar]

If someone who is not Gamma can convince me on Baltar scum I'd go there

Look how easy your wagon is

Now look at mine

Now look back at yours

Now yours could be mine but it’s not.

And that’s bc this isn’t the wagon scum wants to go through and is thus avoiding it like the plague

Seems like no one is willing to hammer gamma forever, so I'd say the opposite is actually the truth.

I initiated this challenge because I think Cakez made a good case on why gamma was scummy and there is literally no case on me to be made other than "hurr durr, he townread AGar."

I can admit when I'm wrong, so I have nothing to fear from this challenge. I'm willing to bet my life in this game on it. If there were a case made, I'm happy to answer any and all questions about my play. But I think I've been quite transparent all game, and that's why the bull that scum are spitting at me goes nowhere.

I personally go back and forth on gamma. Sometimes I feel like he is townspewing, but things like AGar feinting toward him without commitment and then his squeamishness about this challenge come across as scummy.

Meanwhile, players like notsci/lillith/pooky jab from the sidelines with no actual contribution. If there are scum sitting by happy with the gamestate, it's in that group...too scared to tangle for real, but happy to poke and slink into the background.

[VP Baltar]

there is literally no case on me to be made other than "hurr durr, he townread AGar."

oh you can bet your sweet bippies that's nowhere near all I have on you
that's not even a factor for me atm lol

This doesn't sound manufactured at all

[VP Baltar]

As I said before, I could very easily dominate the post count and be shoving harder

But I want everyone to be able to play and thus am not

You haven't said anything of note literally all game. I couldn't tell you a single thing you've said that I remember. That's how wall paper you've been all game.

Feel free to start playing for real at any point.

[VP Baltar]

Lol guess who are the two jokers in the bus slots on the AGar wagon.

[VP Baltar]

AGar (6) : SirCakez, lilith2013, PookyTheMagicalBear,

notscience, Gamma Emerald,

AGar

[VP Baltar]

You can look at notsci's iso. He has a scum read on Agar with no real articulated reasoning forever, yet only votes him late in the day so Agar can self hammer.

[VP Baltar]

So what motive exactly do I have to defend my “buddy” who’s likely dead today instead of standing aside or bussing

You just bussed. It'd be incredibly stupid play to bus two buddies back to back. You just weren't counting on me calling the challenge. What can you do when I put you in a bad spot? Talk shit is all it seems

[VP Baltar]

That wall makes me feel more comfortable with the AGar vote
A lot of my doubts on AGar scum come from trying to filter personal feelings and scummy vibes from real scum motivation. And while I know I’m not scum with AGar, I still feel like his interactions with me ARE scummy, and since it’s nightless Ithink the trade of me for AGar is fair.
VOTE: AGar

^and look at this shit vote!

That wall he is referring to that made him feel so good? Cakez posted that.

The same Cakez gamma is now trying to hype as Agar's scum buddy. It has zero logic to it.

Both these clowns are playing games of convenience and are the most obvious suspects for an AGar bus.

Meanwhile, VP posted thoughts on every player in the challenge yesterday and had good reason to want lillith over AGar. Like I said, sucks to be chained to a dead scum based on a bad read, but I'm not gonna cry about it. I've had bad reads before and I will in the future.

[VP Baltar]

What you know of me is I play off certain usual suspects and actively interact in conversations spanning tens of pages.

That person this game is bulge, who I suspected very early on and have recently come around on, but he doesn’t entertain that style. You know damn well I can top post counts without trying and I can literally go pull games YOU WERE IN where my posting is astronomical.

But flooding the thread does nothing in a geriatric game such as this.

This is a gigantic, excuse making false binary. You can play the game and produce content with thread spamming.

Why'd you hold your vote so long yesterday if you were so confident in Agar?

[VP Baltar]

Already pointed out EXACTLY why I had that turnaround.

Then I don't believe you because it still makes no sense. You don't have actual reads. Same as you now claim to have all kinds of BS on why I'm scum, when you were whining at the start of the day about how we should yeet pooky. It is about convenience

[VP Baltar]

Lol guess who are the two jokers in the bus slots on the AGar wagon.

this is rich coming from Agar's fucking defense attorney himself

Meanwhile, players like notsci/lillith/pooky jab from the sidelines with no actual contribution.

[VP Baltar]

Because how else am I supposed to sit back and judge the interactions?

Are you asking me how to play as town?

Ok...

[VP Baltar]

um we yeeted scumAgar who you were in love with buddy

Your personal vote was just in opposition to me, so it was a dumb luck vote on your part since that's the wrong reason.

I don't actually think you're scum pooky, that's why you acting dumb all game has been so annoying. But keep doing what you do.

[VP Baltar]

Oh my feelings

[VP Baltar]

um we yeeted scumAgar who you were in love with buddy

Your personal vote was just in opposition to me, so it was a dumb luck vote on your part since that's the wrong reason.

I don't actually think you're scum pooky, that's why you acting dumb all game has been so annoying. But keep doing what you do.

only scum are concerned about "right reasons"

townies are all about killing bad guys. reasons be damned.

Sure. I'm not saying you shouldn't have yeeted AGar. Good job.

I'm saying the jab was dumb because it's not like you're playing some stellar game. You've been tunnelling me all game, which is incorrect given my alignment. Anyhow, this is a dumb point to be arguing about.

[VP Baltar]

is it really tunnelling if you keep doing scummy things lol

Yes, blame others always for your own failings. The greatest quality.

[VP Baltar]

Lol, the one time I get high, a wild Koba appears.

[VP Baltar]

Lol, the one time I get high, a wild Koba appears.

I'm not real, im just a manifestation of your high.

I can't stop laughing.

[VP Baltar]

can we undo this challenge i dont like the limpool lmfao

Kill gamma. It will be fun

[VP Baltar]

Part of me wants to just get yeeted this game because I don't want to spend 100 pages defending a shitty AGar read I had.

Sometimes I really hate that I force myself to play to my wincon. It'd be very easy to just piss people off and eat the yeet today so I can move on.

There was absolutely way more momentum toward an AGar yeet yesterday than lillith. I was correct about that, and that's why he was the easier wagon. I had his alignment wrong, but what can you do. I can't really say I didn't have a bad read on AGar. Only defense I could possibly say is that I'm way more savvy than that play as scum -- which doesn't mean much to people who don't have experience with me.

[VP Baltar]

maybe baltar is right and hes actually town

and just like

really really really bad

i should be more open minded

but im kinda drunk now

ill be openminded next year

I'm the bad one.

Also slightly drunk.

<3 you dumb bastard

[VP Baltar]

Don't leave Cakez alive after I die for fuck's sake. His interaction with me and Noraa were AWFUL once you see we're both town.

hey deadthread Gamma

I super duper promise to reread Cakez in light of your flip and this post

[VP Baltar]

i cant believe baltar is still alive

Living my life over here.

[VP Baltar]

he wanted to push lilith in our PT, but wanted me to do it.

Tell us more about this.

[VP Baltar]

Koba, do you subscribe to this meta brought by gamma and Noraa that if Cakez is finding scum, he is suspicious?

[VP Baltar]

Koba, do you subscribe to this meta brought by gamma and Noraa that if Cakez is finding scum, he is suspicious?

neither of them brought that up wtf
I would have yelled at them if they did

Uh,yes they did. It was literally core to why they were both suspecting you. Noraa's was probably not phrased that exact way since she was dead before Agar, but I distinctly recall her saying something along the lines that you clearly scumhunting is scummy. I really don't have meta of you to make that argument. But when two dead townies have said it, it's at least worth considering.

If that were to be true, what Koba is saying about TMI isn't outlandish. It would explain why I found the AGar case a little thin, and yet you still ended up incredibly accurate.

[VP Baltar]

Koba claims my Agar case was TMI while choosing to ignore that the Gamma part of the case was completely wrong

That's a fair point

[VP Baltar]

If you told me the entire rest of this group was scum I’d believe you tbh

You're saying you think everyone in this challenge but you is scum?

[VP Baltar]

Pooky may actually be scum here. Kind of sat back a bit today on purpose, and it increasingly looks like he doesn't want to engage with anyone but me. He's using his "read" on me as an excuse to not actually scumhunt.

[VP Baltar]

oh yea you've been doing so much scum hunting my man.

I've asked questions of and presented opinions on literally everyone in the game. You haven't done that.

You cry and cry about me, even when I'm not in the lim pool. You did shit all to try to get me yeeted yesterday when I was in the lim pool.

Just admit you're coasting. I can at least respect being disengaged.

[VP Baltar]

I intend to purge the scum from this group before we deal with that melodrama

For sure. Just think it is worth marking this point of order. It hit me this morning that Pooky keeps sniping at me and not doing much else. I was townreading him, but maybe he is using me as an excuse to coast because that's an easy setup?

I wouldn't be surprised if several scum were clinging to me this game since I'm a guarantee misyeet at some point.

[VP Baltar]

I feel like if you were plagued this game and set up to be a miselim gamma wouldn’t be here right now.

How so? I don't want to get too off topic here, but why would scum not save me for the last possible second? I have zero credibility post Agar flip.

[VP Baltar]

Because he's scum

Kinda want to sheep the UT case on Noraa
I don't have anything else to add here

Cakez, I know this was a long time ago, but looking back at your iso, I find this shift a little weird.

These posts are around 24 hours apart. In the first you say Gamma is certainly scum, but then in the second you seem to waffle and say you want to sheep the noraa case. Can you explain for me what transpired during that time to shift your perspective there? You seemed to have gamma as scum for most of the game, but this was one of the moments D1 where the lim started shifting toward Noraa. Was your gamma read weakening then?

[VP Baltar]

this reminds me that lilith has felt weirdly absent this game? which would normally be a bad sign for me but I'm not how much of this is IRL stuff

Have you been able to figure out how much of lillith's play is IRL stuff?

[VP Baltar]

Post 2021! Let's do this right.

[VP Baltar]

he wanted to push lilith in our PT, but wanted me to do it.

Tell us more about this.

When i get off work. But it isnt much.

Still waiting for this koba.

[VP Baltar]

agar is my first choice from the pool, I still think his noraa read was very unnatural

That is your full reason for suspecting him?

you asked for a bullet point case, that was my one sentence TLDR. Do I think other things he’s said/done have also been scummy? yeah, but writing a full-blown thing would take more brain energy than I have. I can attempt it at some point but I ended up not being able to take vacation this week/worked over the weekend, so not a super priority for me since agar seems to be getting pushed plenty already.

Reading lillith (again), and I'm really trying to determine how genuine her gripes with Agar were. I still think it is kind of weird she scum read him extremely confidently because he said noraa looked townie for her flailing. I think several people felt noraa could have been town in that situation. At one point, lillith says it's because Agar town read norra for the flail fight, but not gamma. Which, ok, I could *maybe* see someone thinking that. But then again, that also presumes you read people perfectly symmetrically, which is rarely the case.

IDK, lillith just comes to a very strong conclusion on very scant evidence, imo. Doesn't mean she has to be scum there, but it bugged me then and it still bugs me more now as being possible TMI (which is what she accused Agar of, coincidentally).

I noticed on this reread that lillith hasn't hardly interacted with Cakez at all in thread. Lillith, what's your read on Cakez?

[VP Baltar]

Notsci, can you explain your lillith scum read to me? I thought maybe I missed it because I've been only following along like 60% over the holiday. Upon reread, I'm not seeing it clearly. Are you just hunting on the noraa wagon?

Overall, I think notsci has seemed more town recently. He is a little more in the mix, and his reads are dynamic in a town way. I like that he's taking votes and stances now instead of hanging out on the sidelines.


Bulge is a harder read for me. I don't have much impression of him this game, but I will say that I really liked him calling bullshit on the people saying he quick hammered gamma.

[VP Baltar]

Cake is scum and I firmly believe in this. It's my strongest SR in this game.

Gamma/Notsci both scummy asf

I get it my post was scummy. Fair enough and I don't know what to say cuz it was certainly scummy.

why have I been on Gamma all day then?

The more you try to convince me, the more im certain ur scum.

Town!cake does not react to a SR the way you are doing it rn. Town!Cake is the scummiest player on the surface of the planet(this is exaggerated to help push my point). Town!Cake doesn't talk logic. Doesn't talk anything except what he thinks.

This is not town!cake.

I wouldn't word it the same but I agree with the vibe of how Noraa is perceiving Cakez
I won't call myself good at reading Cakez but he has patterns of behavior I'm not sure he's entirely aware of and able to control yet.

Cakez, earlier you said I was wrong that noraa and gamma were claiming your behavior in this game didn't line up with your town game. These post are just some of what I'm thinking of. They were clearly pursuing a meta argument about you.

You said noraa's doesn't count because she only has a couple games. How many games do you have with gamma? Would you expect him to be able to read you well a good amount of the time?

[VP Baltar]

I didn't feel as strongly about Gamma until I did the Agar case because I saw all of the connections there

You do talk to and about gamma ALOT in your iso. He seemed to be at the front of your mind from the start of the game. I guess that's why I find the openness to noraa a bit strange there when gamma was one of the possibilities. (not that I can really say noraa wasn't getting on my nerves at that point either).

[VP Baltar]

Koba, can you answer my question

[VP Baltar]

it explains why agar just selfed.

How's that? I'm not following

[VP Baltar]

Pooky, who is scum inside this elim pool?

[VP Baltar]

Agar's reaction to the noraa/gamma argument just felt like he had assigned a townread and a scumread to whoever, when imo both noraa and gamma had very similar reactions. I mean, sure, people aren't going to read others perfectly symmetrically, but that post stuck out to me because I didn't really feel like he articulated why one was town and not the other based on their argument. Then later, I thought I caught something that felt contradictory - he said originally that he townread noraa for her reaction to arguing with gamma; then he said that he didn't townread her for it; and since the original post had stuck in my mind, when he said the second thing later I had kind of a lightbulb moment. I don't think it mattered as much whether he was townreading noraa or not for that, but that he directly contradicted himself about his read on her. I have no idea if it was actually AI in hindsight/whether I just happened to be on a correct wagon for the wrong reason or whether that was actually a scummy thing I caught him doing.

I gave cakes a pass early on, but I think it was because I felt guilty for not being in the pt/being a more active partner. He really doesn't seem to have made much attempt to sort me and then came out and instavoted me today and can't even give reasons for it/doesn't really seem to have put thought into that read. Also in retrospect, I think it's possible Agar was avoiding getting into a 1v1 with cakes because he didn't want two main wagons of the day being both on scum. With a gamma townflip, I think it's worth paying attention to gamma and noraa both scumreading him too.

Blerg. This feels fairly townie to me.

Do you think Cakez would have been trying to solve you if he were town? That's contradictory to you not solving him, no?

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: Cakez

Let's see if noraa and gamma were right.

[VP Baltar]

I'm town, but we can lim me. Problem is scum are running this game at this point. I'd suggest the people who feel the most comfortable are probably scum here. Looking at pooky and Koba in particular, but also possibly reck.

[VP Baltar]

sucked in by AtE

What is this referring to?

[VP Baltar]

how many times does he have to be wrong b4 we're just like

nah this is a red

^cant be wrong if you don't vote amirite?

[VP Baltar]

God everyone is scum.

@VPB it was right after the AGar flip where you were like "man I wish there was a way to avoid me needing to die" or something to that effect. The defeatism over being wrong about AGar resonated with me

Ah got you. I mean, I feel like I'm adding to the town loss at this point by staying alive.

Limming me is probably the right call here because I'm a huge liability at this point. Best to not have that dragged into a Xylo situation.

Once I'm gone though, town seriously needs to reconsider the trajectory we are on. There is almost guaranteed scum coasting this game.

[VP Baltar]

baltar do u claim pt cop

Lol naw

[VP Baltar]

Who is scum in this pool pooky?

[VP Baltar]

i'm becoming increasingly wary my partner is scum

Tell me more

[VP Baltar]

Yeah, I mean, my concern is that multiple town members aren't doing shit to solve the game and are just floating along with whatever bad idea gets put up next. I don't feel like the reads and analysis I've generated this he is getting any kind of real feed back or discussion started, which I can get to see degree given the AGar flip, but it's also a bit deflating to even try when it feels like I'm questioning a teenager about a night past curfew everytime.

"Where were you?"

"idunno"

"Alright"

[VP Baltar]

Notsci, can you take a firm position on bulge? You've kind of just said 'bulge and lillith should fight', which I don't love.

[VP Baltar]

I mean we should be blaming me for being completely fucking useless

Scummy

[VP Baltar]

its pretty hard to play mafia when like so many people r just not playing so its whatever

Scummy

[VP Baltar]

i have the rumblings of a theory as to why there's no wind in the sails this game but i need time to percolate a bit and/or not be doomscrolling twitter

I just assumed this theory is the coup. This is why I'm not here

[VP Baltar]

koba faked their PT logs?

Fwiw, Koba is smart enough to do this as scum. The PT logs are NAI, especially since Koba said there isn't much there.

That's why I asked about them. If there was a lot, it might have been easier to judge the truthfulness of that.

[VP Baltar]

My stance around day one was I thought it was all town. It changed day two in the weird vp defense of agar, and then day three I was sticking to my guns from day one.

Why didn't you really try to lim me after agar?

[VP Baltar]

You mean the next day when I was the first vote on you, got called scummy for it by Cakez while everyone and their mother piled on gamma for him to flip green?

I never felt any real pressure from you. Didn't feel like you were pushing me hard or convincing people I was the right play. Felt like you plunked a vote and chilled.

Pooky is the only person I can say who has actively tried to yeet me, but that's basically died since day 1.

Different question, do you think I'm scum now?

[VP Baltar]

So you think I was trying to bus lillith while Agar was getting run up?

[VP Baltar]

Yes.

So rather than bus my buddy and get town cred, I chose to try to bus my other buddy and eat shit for days, even when the agar yeet was inevitable?

[VP Baltar]

I hope you can see how bad that looks that this is your theory

[VP Baltar]

I was actually going to say I thought you were more town since day 1 and that Koba was out to lunch, but that's a big ass pothole in this road

[VP Baltar]

And I think you’re over exaggerating my confidence in said read and it’s why I’m not really doing anything with that

I asked you and that's what you said. I'm not exaggerating anything. A VP/Agar/lillith combo is illogical in that scenario

[VP Baltar]

Boils down to Koba saying notsci's play this game has been TMI basically.

[VP Baltar]

Lillith, you got anything to say now that you know what that fight is about?

Or anything in general?

[VP Baltar]

Koba, you seem confident pooky is town here. Is that independently of your notsci scum read, or completely dependent on that?

[VP Baltar]

UT is kind of a lurking turd burger this game. He might be scum.

[VP Baltar]

Voting for the lowest hanging fruit and then lurking is not town play.

[VP Baltar]

Voting for the lowest hanging fruit and then lurking is not town play.

I don't even know what you want me to discuss

nothing has happened.

if Bulge wants to make a case for killing someone he should do so.

This is a BS answer. Koba has been generating discussion. Reck has been. I have been.

Point is that if you and UT are town, you're helping scum this game by stalling.

[VP Baltar]

at this point i am going to convince UT to move as a unit with me to hit whoever gets within 2 votes of being dead to stop this game from stalling the fuck out any longer

Is that really the best play? Shouldn't you two be arguing for who is best?

[VP Baltar]

The playing two games at once is real for me too! I got way too ambitious during the Christmas week slow down

[VP Baltar]

Re: bulge, I'd be interested on him and notsci talking about their PT and the early read on AGar. Seems like a bold play if they are both scum, or if notsci is scum alone.

[VP Baltar]

*interested in your take, Reck,

[VP Baltar]

This is getting at the heart of what I was seeing then reck. Gamma was shading lillith for weak reasons, which felt like a bus attempt to me if lillith was red. (Obviously was not)

Which btw, it’s hilarious you suggest that VP when if Agar is town there’s little benefit to unvoting besides towncred

Your reasons for suspecting lillith are flimsy, which is why I was pressing you to explain the change of heart when very little had happened.

And didn't someone already say the optimal scum strategy in this setup is to bus early and cruise on town cred?

Anyhow, I'm just calling it like I see it!

[VP Baltar]

what were the reasons behind it and how is it affected now post-gamma flip?

As far as how it is affected...you mean my read on lillith I'm assuming.

I still think she is somewhat scummy, but she had a town glimmer I noted earlier and I'm obviously having a hard time figuring out who among the lurkers is town and who is scum when there are so many lurkers. Currently, I'd say lillith is probably in the null-scum range for me.

[VP Baltar]

Would you loook and describe any interactions your predecessors had wrt Lilith in your pt real fast?

This.

[VP Baltar]

Did he ask Starbuck to get involved?

[VP Baltar]

I think Titus is town. Agar petitioning his partner and then DK offering that in thread is all unlikely scum-scum interaction.

[VP Baltar]

Wow, this game is dead.

Yeah it is. Scum are lurking the fuck out of this game to their advantage.

I'm going to VOTE: bulge to move this along. If this flips town, we should kill UT and pooky.

[VP Baltar]

If Bulge flips scum, I don't ever see myself voting for lilith based on PT interactions and wagon composition.

If Bulge flips town, the resistance from the wagon most likely is scum driven which makes lilith more likely scum and the interaction a distancing ploy.

Lillith is hard for me. I was scum reading her pretty strongly during the agar wagon. I'll say DK hard townreading lillith and you obvtowning into the DK slot is influencing my preference for bulge right now.

It could be that lillith and AGar were just both scum getting run up together though.

[VP Baltar]

What wagon composition tells you it can’t be scum scum?

*Checks vote count*

This motherfucker

[VP Baltar]

I mean

I intentionally picked this pool to force bussing

So I don’t really agree?

My sense is you think bulge and lillith could both be scum right?

[VP Baltar]

If bulge is gonna play, let's yeet lillith. IDGAF, let's just flip someone.

[VP Baltar]

i don't even think scum are playing particularly well town just has zero momentum or energy and scucm are hiding in the doldrums

This is my take and why I want a flip. I've been trying to keep posting regularly and it generates 0.0 discussion.

I came into today preferring lillith, but it's not like bulge is being super impressive. I think notsci is probably town.

Basically, I wish I was scum this game because this would be the easiest shit ever to win.

[VP Baltar]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: lillith

Let's go. Get the blood flowing.

[VP Baltar]

crickets

[VP Baltar]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: lillith

Let's go. Get the blood flowing.

so to be clear your solution to solving the stagnant gamestate is to remove your vote from the leading wagon to throw it on someone with one vote

You gonna vote lilith or keep chatting?

[VP Baltar]

Pooky, vote lillith

[VP Baltar]

=====[ ]

[VP Baltar]

FUCCCCK YESSSS

[VP Baltar]

Pooky might be scum here. Also looking at UT

[VP Baltar]

You fucked up pooky. Should have yeeted me when you had the chance dawg

[VP Baltar]

Notsci and Titus are town. Reck I *think* is town.

[VP Baltar]

Just pick one. I favor Bulge but I'll hammer either.

Actually, walking back my Titus locktown read to just leantown

[VP Baltar]

Who are the scum now pooky?

[VP Baltar]

Sometime today

[VP Baltar]

Zzzzzzzz

[VP Baltar]

Pooky is scared.

[VP Baltar]

its probly just titus and bulge

How in the fuck is UT not in your PoE?

[VP Baltar]

Going to challenge pooky unless I hear objections

[VP Baltar]

I'm just glad I don't need to iso vp now

Me you and Titus. Let's win this shit

[VP Baltar]

Notsci is cool.

[VP Baltar]

So we make pooky, reck and ut challenge, right?

[VP Baltar]

I’m really curious as to why Titus slot tried to derail it onto me

This is a mark against Titus, but don't get OMGUS.

Do you think bulge is scum?

If yes, then it absolutely has to be bulge-titus. I don't think that's the case though. I'll do analysis later, but my gut says the other three. They've been saving me as a misyeet and I fucked their plan with the last minute script flip.

[VP Baltar]

Look how stun locked pooky was. Dude got caught flat footed

[VP Baltar]

Lillith didn't post before you bailed on the bulge wagon, right?

[VP Baltar]

And by before, I mean after. It is early

[VP Baltar]

Why wouldn't lilith cross the minute she knew notty wasn't going to happen if bulge was scum too? It's a move that makes no sense as either alignment unless she just gave up and accepted death.

I agree with this. Pooky/UT teaming up to push this theory is noted.

[VP Baltar]

Why wouldn't lilith cross the minute she knew notty wasn't going to happen if bulge was scum too? It's a move that makes no sense as either alignment unless she just gave up and accepted death.

I agree with this. Pooky/UT teaming up to push this theory is noted.

I was quoting notscience?

It was Pooky's point first. Notsci just agreed

[VP Baltar]

The pool of players eligible to be eliminated today consists of

SirCakez
lilith2013

Starbuck
AGar

AGar (6) : SirCakez, lilith2013, PookyTheMagicalBear, notscience, Gamma Emerald, AGar

lilith2013 (2) : VP Baltar, xRECKONERx
SirCakez (0) :
Starbuck (0) :

Not Voting: Everyone else

With 11 members of the expedition remaining, it will take 6 to eliminate. An elimination has been achieved. Hold tight for flip...

With two scum in the pool, and them being the preferred yeets for the day, the obvious play was to bus here.

Notsci is most likely town. So you either have to believe that all the scum not in the yeet pool stayed completely off this wagon, or that pooky, like lillith, is bussing scum hoping to get cred.

[VP Baltar]

The pool of players eligible to be eliminated today consists of

Gamma Emerald
PookyTheMagicalBear

VP Baltar
Noraa

Noraa (7) : Untrod Tripod, Starbuck, The Bulge, xRECKONERx, VP Baltar, Lilith2013, Noraa

PookyTheMagicalBear (2) : notscience, Gamma Emerald
Gamma Emerald (2) : SirCakez, AGar
VP Baltar (1) : PookyTheMagicalBear


Not Voting:

With 12 members of the expedition remaining, it will take 7 to eliminate. An elimination has been achieved. Hold tight for flip...

A lot unresolved on this wagon unfortunately.

Two towns on pooky, pooky pushing obvtown me.

[VP Baltar]

The pool of players eligible to be eliminated today consists of

VP Baltar

Gamma Emerald
PookyTheMagicalBear

Gamma Emerald (6) : VP Baltar, SirCakez, xRECKONERx, lilith2013, Untrod Tripod, The Bulge

VP Baltar (4) : notscience, PookyTheMagicalBear, Gamma Emerald, DkKoba
PookyTheMagicalBear (0) :

Not Voting:
With 10 players alive it takes 6 votes to eliminate. An elimination has been achieved. Hold tight for flip...

Wagon gets sketchy toward the back half. Worth looking at pooky/UT reasons for flopping onto this one.

[VP Baltar]

*Lillith/UT

[VP Baltar]

Notsci is most likely town. So you either have to believe that all the scum not in the yeet pool stayed completely off this wagon, or that pooky, like lillith, is bussing scum hoping to get cred.

riddle me this, why does AGar self-hammer rather than letting his scum buddy (me) get the cred for being the hammer on his wagon

Lol you think you would have gotten town cred for doing fuck all (you weren't voting) and then hammering scum out of the blue?

Scum team was bleeding after Cakez put them in the ring to face each other.

[VP Baltar]

See that does make sense

But starbuck was awol and bulge pretty much was deferring his read to me on agar bc (as he said himself) he wouldnt be sure how to position it as scum

So idk

I think big picture, we have to look at who has been fine with this game being adrift. I believe starbuck and Bulge had RL shit making them lurk. Pooky and UT on the other hand...

[VP Baltar]

We probably need to look at how lilliths wagon was derailed for Cakez.

I played a part, but I’m town.

This is a good point.

[VP Baltar]

Like it’s near guaranteed one scum in (baltar reck koba)

Ninja-

And neither of those two did ANYTHING to help save lillith so unless you think four town just royally screwed the pooch there’s scum in the pool I just listed

I'm not following what you're saying here.

[VP Baltar]

Lillith at biggest-

Cakez me bulge

Cakez at elim-
Koba reck me you lillith

We know lilliths flip. Do you think four town just all went and shit the bed? That’s what you’re proposing with that team of UT/Pooky

It's not impossible given the disarray at that point, but if there is scum there, it was Koba. I just find the PT stuff weird from scum Koba and Titus consecutively.

Alternate take is that Reck/pooky is he solve and ut is just lazy ass town I suppose.

[VP Baltar]

Even if you're right that there is a scum in that pool, seems like forcing a pooky/ut/reck pool is the play today.

[VP Baltar]

if you want to fight us

Scumtelling

[VP Baltar]

Reck, if you're town here, it is up to you to initiate this challenge

[VP Baltar]

lol

Baltar out here flailing

Imagine being town!UT, watching VP pull a hail mary badass play, and this being your takeaway.

[VP Baltar]

The pool of players eligible to be eliminated today consists of

SirCakez
lilith2013

Starbuck
AGar

AGar (6) : SirCakez, lilith2013, PookyTheMagicalBear, notscience, Gamma Emerald, AGar

lilith2013 (2) : VP Baltar, xRECKONERx
SirCakez (0) :
Starbuck (0) :

Not Voting: Everyone else

With 11 members of the expedition remaining, it will take 6 to eliminate. An elimination has been achieved. Hold tight for flip...

With two scum in the pool, and them being the preferred yeets for the day, the obvious play was to bus here.

Notsci is most likely town. So you either have to believe that all the scum not in the yeet pool stayed completely off this wagon, or that pooky, like lillith, is bussing scum hoping to get cred.

@reck & ut

[VP Baltar]

koba's rep out is v scum!indicative ngl

You're saying this is Koba scum meta?

[VP Baltar]

Yeah, I think it is hard to say where starbuck was because she obv had RL going on, on top of the scum potential.

I do think the way notsci and I pressed the PT point gave off town vibes unless Titus really saw where we were coming from and faked her way through that

[VP Baltar]

I also think it’s extremely sus about kobas defense of lillith

This would be an argument for Bulge town then I'd think

[VP Baltar]

There 100% has to be a scum in that squint pool from your perspective there reck. So, time to get squinting.

[VP Baltar]

If you think I'm scum after that play on lilith, you are beyond reachable

[VP Baltar]

i mean yes it was a good swap, but also, you were the opposite on agar? idk

I was trying to get lillith yeeted at the time, so I think my play around Agar is even further clearing of me in hindsight. There's no fucking way I would have played that way as scum.

[VP Baltar]

Who is scum bulge?

[VP Baltar]

Guess I didn't realize you were ISOing everyone. Carry on

[VP Baltar]

Agar's reaction to the noraa/gamma argument just felt like he had assigned a townread and a scumread to whoever, when imo both noraa and gamma had very similar reactions. I mean, sure, people aren't going to read others perfectly symmetrically, but that post stuck out to me because I didn't really feel like he articulated why one was town and not the other based on their argument. Then later, I thought I caught something that felt contradictory - he said originally that he townread noraa for her reaction to arguing with gamma; then he said that he didn't townread her for it; and since the original post had stuck in my mind, when he said the second thing later I had kind of a lightbulb moment. I don't think it mattered as much whether he was townreading noraa or not for that, but that he directly contradicted himself about his read on her. I have no idea if it was actually AI in hindsight/whether I just happened to be on a correct wagon for the wrong reason or whether that was actually a scummy thing I caught him doing.

I gave cakes a pass early on, but I think it was because I felt guilty for not being in the pt/being a more active partner. He really doesn't seem to have made much attempt to sort me and then came out and instavoted me today and can't even give reasons for it/doesn't really seem to have put thought into that read. Also in retrospect, I think it's possible Agar was avoiding getting into a 1v1 with cakes because he didn't want two main wagons of the day being both on scum. With a gamma townflip, I think it's worth paying attention to gamma and noraa both scumreading him too.

Blerg. This feels fairly townie to me.

Do you think Cakez would have been trying to solve you if he were town? That's contradictory to you not solving him, no?

VOTE: Cakez

Let's see if noraa and gamma were right.

This was my vote. I waffled and was second guessing myself on lillith at the time, plus gamma and Noraa were both saying they meta read Cakez as scum.

[VP Baltar]

i voted cakez over lillith bc i was honestly tired of koba being fucking obnoxious tbh

What did voting Cakez prove about Koba?

[VP Baltar]

So it proved nothing then about their alignment

[VP Baltar]

@VPB did you use your PT at all with noraa before she got yeeted?

I don't know what you mean. I thought we talked pretty extensively about the PT use. I think you might be asking something more specifically, but I need you to clarify.

Re: setup - weren't scum random drawn this time around?


On pooky/reck/it --- if not sci doesn't come around and put some pressure to force this challenge, I'll just challenge pooky and get him limmed.

[VP Baltar]

Forcing all the scum into the pool is obviously optimal. You'll definitely be dead if we go again, but I'd rather see you and your buddy ratfuck each other and laugh.

[VP Baltar]

LOLOLOL COME AT ME THEN

Scum mentality given I'm very obvtown at this point

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: agar

La da la da.

i still think you're scum

you're pushing lilith so I am going for Agar.

honestly 1250 just smells so bad :3

This is Pooky's entire reason for hopping on AGar. He was opposed to me running lillith up. Says my case "smells so bad".

So what we have, in my view, is a scum who saw things going sour and was trying to smear me as his two buddies were getting run up together.

Facts are, pooky has caught zero scum this game, consistently pushed town and has tried to ride some fake ego spat with me as a way to avoid scumhunting.

[VP Baltar]

It’s my long day. I’m off tomorrow.

Give me until tomorrow please.

We can wait. If town can ban together here, we can force the scum challenge.

@reck - why are you townreading pooky exactly?

[VP Baltar]

Forcing all the scum into the pool is obviously optimal. You'll definitely be dead if we go again, but I'd rather see you and your buddy ratfuck each other and laugh.

This is precisely why I am holding off challenging. If the town in UT/Reck challenges Pooky we just win.

I basically see three options here.

1) force the consensus read scums to challenge if we can reach a consensus. Refusal to do so will be seen as a scum claim.

2) an obvtown person like myself or notsci challenge our strongest scum read and we quickly lim that person.

3) if no consensus can be reached, we force the two scummiest people from opposite solve theories into the challenge and duke it out as we have been for this game. The outcome of that yeet would likely determine which theory of the game is correct.


I have a strong preference for No. 1, but we will see what notsci thinks

[VP Baltar]

like if im actually wrong on lilith ill fucking delete my account

koba might've actually scumclaimed here

I don't follow

[VP Baltar]

I'm so surprised pooky and UT are playing off each other again.

[VP Baltar]

i feel like koba is the type of person who would only make that kind of metagame wager/promise if they were scum to cover their ass from having to actually do it, esp with what we know now about lillith

I mean, it didn't seem serious to me but idk. Koba, like many people on this site, plays very egotistically and says dumb shit sometimes.

[VP Baltar]

Also worth noting that UT was one of Pooky's earliest defenders over the insta-challenge

[VP Baltar]

hey remember that time that AGar threw down a lazy vote/case on lillith and I said "holy moly that's a bad and lazy thing to do" and it was one of the reasons why we yeeted him that day instead of lillith

explain that as a SvSvS interaction

I'll wait

Agar was the chosen bus with two scum getting run up. Wow, that took a lot of creative thinking on my part.

[VP Baltar]

oh man I sure hope Starbuck didn't have a really bad-in-retrospect response to both AGar and lillith getting pressure

Quick catch up before I start deep diving ISOs.

agar is my first choice from the pool, I still think his noraa read was very unnatural

What was unnatural about it?

this is a Bad Take, an Easy Yeet for Scum to Push and also Very Lazy

Same could be said about those pushing AGar.

You’re talking about UT questioning Agars easy push are you not?

That was not my interpretation of what he said, but if that is true, it is an incredibly lame point to make. Not do I think it is even true necessarily.

Cakez has been working on his case, we’ll get it about the time the vaccine is available to the general public

Lol


Anyhow, if you can't remember anything lillith has done, isn't that more scum indicative than anything? That's my entire problem with her.

I don’t like vp’s response to this conversation with notsci. not sure exactly what about it feels off but I almost feel like his intention was never to actually engage on whether agar pushing me was easy (which it is, because I think I have the lowest number of posts out of the remaining 3) but rather just to make UT look bad

That's quite a misrep of what happened.

uh oh

Lol, she was pushing on lillith. Imagine being so dumb as scum you think that's incriminating.

Being wrong on a scum to push another scum isn't scum indicative. Lolol.

You may as well claim.

Reck, you never answered my question why pooky is town.

[VP Baltar]

Uh oh

[VP Baltar]

I think if you reread his iso, you will see he isn't scum hunting. Defending gamma was probably just TMI.

He has spent more time this game talking about me when I'm not even in the lim pool than anything else.

[VP Baltar]

If Pooky flips scum, will you reconsider UT? What if Titus or Bulge flip town?

[VP Baltar]

You've said yourself you've been way off this game.

I'm asking you to look at the facts being laid out, as well as the reaction to me pushing UT and pooky.

Based on play in the game, Pooky is the scummiest person alive. I think I've shown that pretty clearly with evidence. The fact UT has no doubts about him is hugely concerning.

The path to easily winning this game is separating the scummy people from the townie people based upon actions. Lillith's flip fits with my theory that scum have been coasting and letting town go down the wrong path.

I'm not 100% certain on Titus and Bulge, but I think if you look at the play in this game, Pooky is far worse. My suggestion is we start there and build from that flip.

[VP Baltar]

What's my shitty attitude? Because I called you scum? Because I showed reasons why you and pooky make sense?

Spare me the gaslighting, daddy.

It's hilarious you think I'm going to go before you.

[VP Baltar]

Alright, let's do it

[VP Baltar]

What's my shitty attitude? Because I called you scum?

This wasn't a rhetorical question btw, UT.

Would like to know specifically what you're talking about.

[VP Baltar]

Titus and pooky, where you at?

[VP Baltar]

I'll give both a full review this afternoon as much as I just want to immediately vote pooky.

[VP Baltar]

I iso'ed Starbuck/Koba again.

I go back and forth on this slot. Starbuck was soft defending AGar, and Koba chainsaws like hell for lilith. It's a bit weird that scum!Koba would offer up the PT stuff if they knew lilith was scum.

That being said, it's also slightly weird that AGar would be telling town!Starbuck to attack his scum buddy knowing that if lilith were to flip at that time, it would have given Starbuck town cred. Of course, it would have also given AGar town cred I suppose.

I'm trying to determine if I as scum would be defending my buddy as hard as Koba did at that point. Scum were sitting pretty comfortable in the game at that point, so it's possible. It's always a very risky play though given you end up building a house of cards.

Titus, I'm curious why you think the vote counts make you obv town?

[VP Baltar]

I don't think pooky looks like the shining beacon of town here, fwiw. I can rehash that case in a bit, but he is quite bad in the big picture.

[VP Baltar]

@titus- But you should be able to say why you think from an outside perspective people should see you as town, yes?

[VP Baltar]

What Starbuck move are you referring to?

[VP Baltar]

vla for a few days my girlfriends sick and I’m coming down with whatever she has

COVID test came back negative but the guy told her it could still just be developing soooo

Anti-rona vibes. Hope you both feel better soon

[VP Baltar]

he hard defended agar and the random decision to flip the wagon onto lillith could've been a bus attempt to try and ride towncred into endgame

Do you think is a more legit theory of the game than simply pooky-ut or Titus-bulge? Or are you just tinfoiling?

[VP Baltar]

Interesting. Wasn't expecting that.

[VP Baltar]

well i can't vote bulge today but you're probably right about titus actually

VOTE: titus

i guess you're both making the same AtE to me and UT so idgaf

I can't tell if you're just not paying attention to this game or might be scum.

I really don't get the reasoning behind either of your last two votes ... and that's everyone possible!

[VP Baltar]

Titus, you did promise VCA, and I'm not opposed to yeeting you if that proves to all just be handwaving.

[VP Baltar]

Push town bus elsewhere is a thing. Here you're out of options though.

lololol ive never bussed in 18 years of playing on this site good joke

That can't be true. Really?

[VP Baltar]

when i used to play it wasn't really a thing people did

Is this like one of your first games back? Didn't know you had a hiatus

[VP Baltar]

i literally don't care who goes first, what are YOU waiting for

I'm figuring out how the scum are and then voting. Don't see the need to rush, especially with notsci sidelined a bit.

[VP Baltar]

that's because meta is garbage, don't you know?

That wasn't meta...

[VP Baltar]

my flip on titus really comes down to that "i'll delete my account" line from koba. it's like too ballsy not to come from scum who knows they're in the clear bc they're not town.

Serious question: have you played with Koba before?

[VP Baltar]

I mean, this is like saying, "I can't believe ABR is capslocking"

[VP Baltar]

A person's personality isn't meta. That's just silly to say.

[VP Baltar]

Are bulge and UT just not in this game anymore?