Mini Theme 2182 - Legends of the Hidden Temple III - Over!

[Gamma Emerald]

Do you want my response on the original question or do you have a new one
If the former, I think Pooky and VP should 100% be looked at more, since me + Noraa got a lot of focus the first time this matchup was run

[The Bulge]

I think you've answered enough tbh. I guess I'm asking for your thoughts on the utility of a you vs vp challenge, and I'm gathering that your main issue with it is that it puts too much attention on your slot correct?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I think I want to kill baltar regardless of what gamma flips at this point lol

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

like this weak ass response from gamma is very ++scum if he's scum with baltar

[The Bulge]

I think I want to kill baltar regardless of what gamma flips at this point lol

did you see 1442? what do you think of exhibit a? I could see the weird reluctance to defend oneself coming from a multiple-scum pool, but their pairing doesn't make sense to me.

[The Bulge]

Gamma why haven't you voted?

[lilith2013]

I think a both-scum theory actually fits pretty well with gamma (and also vp to an extent? don't remember exactly) insisting that the pool was all town

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma why haven't you voted?

Because I’m writing a bigger post up and my vote will be in there

[The Bulge]

I think a both-scum theory actually fits pretty well with gamma (and also vp to an extent? don't remember exactly) insisting that the pool was all town

welcome back. why does that implicate two scums instead of just one? you should try to remember your reasoning for vp and let's talk.

[VP Baltar]

I think a both-scum theory actually fits pretty well with gamma (and also vp to an extent? don't remember exactly) insisting that the pool was all town

Lillith, still scum y'all.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I think I want to kill baltar regardless of what gamma flips at this point lol

did you see 1442? what do you think of exhibit a? I could see the weird reluctance to defend oneself coming from a multiple-scum pool, but their pairing doesn't make sense to me.

im not sure whats supposed to make me think this cant be S/S

I want to murderize baltar.

his interactions with agar r pretty shady.

im disappointed by gammas weak response to getting challenged. id think hed have more steel in his spine if he was actually town here.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I think a both-scum theory actually fits pretty well with gamma (and also vp to an extent? don't remember exactly) insisting that the pool was all town

Lillith, still scum y'all.

this post would be hilarious if all 3 of them were scum

[Gamma Emerald]

I still don’t think my death would be too tragic but I think there’s no thought going into this challenge. I was given a golden opportunity to self-hammer and deprive town of some interactions. On top of the fact I didn’t hammer there being a town sign for me imo, it also shows the people voting me aren’t thinking this through at all if they’re town.
So that’s what’s feeding my mindset rn

[VP Baltar]

I think a both-scum theory actually fits pretty well with gamma (and also vp to an extent? don't remember exactly) insisting that the pool was all town

Lillith, still scum y'all.

this post would be hilarious if all 3 of them were scum

What if everyone is scum but you pooky! What then!

[Gamma Emerald]

Then it wouldn’t be mafia, it would be conspiracy

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i wouldnt put it past haschel

[Gamma Emerald]

Since you freaks all decided to run me up in <three hours I think it’s imperative I actually bat back some of this stupidity. So I’ll start with calling out AGar’s posting and how it doesn’t really handle me like a partner to him.

Ok, one, jesus fuck there's 17 pages.

Two, lol@page4 challenge

Three, christ half of this shit is useless nonsense.

But yeah this play is a huge gambit if he is scum and I'm not sure scum!pooky willingly puts himself on the chopping block just like that.

Why not? It's not actually as big of a gambit as people are making it out to be.

@Pooky

How much playing experience do you have with Noraa and Gamma, specifically?

Just take the fucking townread goddamn it!!!!!!

You bitch and moan about how I read you wrong and yet when I townread you you attack me. And I find it ridiculous you think I can’t find you obvtown when you yourself boast about your towniness at every turn. You’re not genuinely interacting with me, you’re being contrarian!!!!!!!!

These posts are weird. Gamma's entire reaction to Noraa pushing back on a townread is very weird.

Self-vote in 280. Tech. When the fuck did AtE self-votes become meta? God dammit.

@VPB

what's with the insistence on trying to get Reck/UT to parse each other in particular?

AGar calls my posts weird, without actually defining them as scummy. I think that seem anti-partnery if you consider scum would have a better handle on why their partners might look suspicious. I 100% subscribe to the belief that scum are able to scumread their partners easier because they can see the scum motivation more plainly. I have other thoughts but they fit the next post better imo.

What didn’t you like about gammas reaction agar

The whole insistence that Noraa accept his Day 1 Page, like, 5? townread on her, like if she pushed back it invalidated that he felt she was town or something, and then getting very personal when it was pushed back on and it wasn't centered on the fact that she was scumreading him. It was a lot of words about someone not trusting a townread, which felt very off. At this point I lean a decent bit town on Noraa based on the whole exchange, and Gamma's insistence on the townread to the point of a self-vote feels very fucking weird.

One thing AGar never established was a legitimate reason me being

weird

equals me being

scum

. AGar came up with other points, fine. But this point never had that line of logic established. Given it’s the base of his scumread on me, I think it’s a pretty crap read overall.

SirCakez
lilith2013
Starbuck
AGar
xRECKONERx
notscience
The Bulge

^ this list of people

what are your reads on the players on the table right now? how about the 8 of us talk about this. we don't need to talk about anyone who you can't vote for today. that will clutter this up and distract. just the people on the table.

Townlean Noraa. (posts like 147, 232). I don't love the reasoning for townPooky she gives in 236 and still want a follow up on why, but I don't find that scummy.

Scumlean GE. I really really hate his insistence that the 4 up for yeeting shut up because it creates a situation where 8 of us talk to each other about 4 people who are interacting in a limited way and then with PTs and daytalk allows for a lot of lurking and coordination. I still find his whole thing about Noraa pushing back on a townread from him very very awkward and just there's a thing about it that doesn't sit right with me - it's setting off gut pangs.

Null on VPB and Pooky for two different reasons.

VPB's early posting was kinda fluffy but the game was generally trash so it didn't feel like there was anything he was particularly dodging. Lately he's been mostly :goodposting:. I don't love the deal made, but that's just me in general and tbf I'm not a party to that so whatever. If we come to a point where it's suddenly obvious Noraa or VPB is scum and we can't get the other to vote to yeet because of a dumb deal, we'll burn that bridge then.

Pooky's early challenge set off a few gambit bells with me but then his follow up has been... the opposite of what I would call smart scum posting if he was gambitting.

How about this: how many people who are not in the challenge are using their PTs to talk about the game?

Not really right now. I will likely spew some shit in there later because I find the PT useful in spots generally.

2) Ok then propose a logical reason for why anyone would hide something in the PT that they are not sharing with the rest of us.

The same reason any neighborhood is worthwhile - you can discuss stuff in a limited one on one environment to bounce shit off of someone, a second set of eyes - you don't have to trust them 100% but it can help shit out. You can ask your partner their direct opinion on a topic to get a read on them. You can just work through thoughts. Plenty of people keep notes PTs. It's at worst a notes PT with another voice in there. Besides, if your partner is keeping secrets in the PT you feel should be shared with the town... you can just fucking share that info and put that badge on your partner.

A few things:

1. Here AGar pushes me for my insistence on staying quiet to let others have a chance to talk. I really find it absurd he has such a problem with it, when the move was pretty plainly benign especially in context. I would also like to mention I was having concerns over the narrative being spun by VP and Noraa while I was staying quiet. Does that seem like something scum with 3 buddies would have to agonize over? No, because they can just have one or more buddies counter that in their stead. In addition, where’s the actual scum motivation in what I did? Once again AGar fails to front any meaningful evidence against me, just passing off bad feelings as a reason for a scumread. I think should re-read the game with a more critical eye to this type of read, since I recalled s lot of this poor play around this time.
   
2. The level of depth AGar’s defense of using neighborhoods reached seems excessive if Pooky is scum. They very likely could have conferred on that in the scum private thread, in which case any talk on that would be shorter since the full degree isn’t needed. So I consider that an anti-partner tell for Pooky.
   
3. AGar’s reads on VP and Pooky here, but especially VP, have an issue when compared to a later post.

Of the four, I find Gamma's sustained behavior most likely to come from scum

okay but I don't think it's gonna happen

What convinces you Gamma *shouldn't* eat the yeet?

@VPB

The shift in 953 & 955 is throwing me a bit of a loop - care to help me out here? 953 seems to insinuate you would like a Gamma yeet but the vote 2 posts later obviously strays in a different direction.

959 seems to miss the entire point of what UT brought up in 946 wrt reading other players. I'm unsurprised.

979

Narrator: He did, in fact, misremember.

@Reck

re: 981 - Pooky's challenge was anti-town but do you see anything in the followup to indicate scum? Or are you just finding the pool largely homogenous and that's enough to sort out among the four?

If you're not sharing, this picture means nothing to me.

For just a short drive down to St. Yeet, you too could have some of these delicious cookies.

And in 1016, we can see the wild scum circle back to the very thing that was brought up in 946, oblivious to the fact itself.

1024 bad, 1033 ignores basic common sense.

re:1038

1. Gamma
2. Pooky
3. Noraa
4. VPB

My first concern is how AGar’s immediate reaction to UT calling my lim unlikely was to falsely read that as UT saying he wasn’t interested in it. AGar also nudges a few people towards me here. re: 1016 I may have had a similar topic to UT but we were literally saying opposite things, in essence. UT was saying that forming reads on the 8 outside the first challenge would depend on flips, when I was saying it didn’t. It helps, perhaps, but you don’t wait for a flip to form reads on ~67% of the playerlist in any other game.
Now to steer from defense into offense. I called out the fact AGar had Pooky and VP as nulls before as an issue, and this is why. Why is VP below Noraa here? If it was because of Noraa being a less worthwhile player to keep in the game, why not have Pooky below her too? And honestly looking back at AGar’s Noraa mentions specifically, there’s no vibe of wanting her out ever, besides 943 I guess where AGar says he “loathes Noraa’s post”. In that same post, however, he says VP “has been the most logically consistent”. I don’t see why that deserves being put above your actual townread in the challenge. Because of this I think AGar was trying to avoid putting himself in a position where he’d be called to bus VP.

Just checking in to remind everyone that Noraa is town and we should vote out the guy who put us in a four town lolchallenge thanks

Feels like you could've pushed harder on this than "oh let's just yeet any of these four IDGAF"

---
Bye noraa.
---

his read on what was going on yesterday was better than mine so I think he probably has a better handle on what's going on than I do

the high degree of confidence he had in his read(s) could be because he's scum, but I'm choosing to believe that it's because he has better reads than I do at this time

This feels like an odd turn from yesterday where you felt fairly confident and willing to take a driver's seat. You had one wrong read and you're willing to do a complete 180?

I don't think I'd want to see the iguanas in another challenge. definitely not any time soon.

Por que no?

For example, Agar called noraa towny for her argument with gamma when they were getting equally emotional and imo the argument should have been NAI for both sides, and as a result of that basically crossed her off his elimination list. What difference were you seeing there that made you think noraa was town but not gamma? (@agar)

I townread noraa based off of tone/motivation. I said nothing about her side of the argument being towny, and I also already told you exactly what I did find town about her early in the game, none of which had to do with her argument. I thought the argument was dumb and toxic, but I thought the thing that sparked it - GE's whinging over her reaction to a

townread

- was drawing at straws to try and just be saying something about the four up for the yeet. Everything after the initial volley of posts was pretty unindicative of anything, with a slight undertone of "GE is still protesting this way too much," and didn't really color my reads at all.

---

GE is still scum y'all.
One of UT or Reck has it over on the other. Book it.
Notty's nibbling a lot and picking on post counts and justifying it with "gut". Fucking lol.

I think all of the accusations at the bottom of this post are on town. Nothing about how UT and Reck are playing reads as scum snowing town in either direction, they have some level of synchronization but not a full degree of it, and I think, similar to how I read hydras, that level of de-sync is a towntell. Notsci has also seemed pretty legit all game. I’ll let you folks view this however you want but that little closer reads like bad news to me.
And let’s note AGar is back to having never wanted Noraa eliminated here despite having plainly ranked VP below her in desire to yeet. I think that solidifies how I perceive it in terms of what it means for VP.

It’s a scummy way to play tho. How does “he’s floating shit across and seeing what sticks” not sound like a scum tactic? That’s a great way to avoid taking hard stances that might backfire Id think.

There's merit to that but it's also not something I'm wanting to yeet over. Again - he'd need something else to happen to help him along in this setup. I also think he's been pretty consistence wrt the challenge and his follow up so I don't think he's doing it as scum rn.

Ok Boomer Take #1: Providing observations on a set of players when asked is not "sussing" or "shading" all of those players just because it does not feature a fucking glowing "this person is town omg!" review. Jesus fucking christ, I literally said that one of the players is "a player". The other I provided a candid observation with no fucking indication of a lean. I literally said I wanted to yeet one player in that post. One. Not two, not three.... I swear to christ reading comprehension cannot be this difficult.

You made the fencesittiest post of all time that would allow you to pivot to literally anyone in the pool and with like 0 evidence of attempts to sort the people you were fencesitting on. Then you made up a reason to pick me as your favored elim.

I wasn't aware calling someone a "player" was giving me the ability to pivot to that person.

I didn't make up a reason - hell, I specifically mentioned in a previous post I was trying to get a grasp on your intentions - you have been background and mostly riding the currents to this point. I was wrong on one item (even though I said your ISO was "mostly" globbing on, not "only" globbing on) but all the same, you made zero attempt to engage anyone else in the pool, immediately voted me with nary a thought to anyone else and did whatever survival instinct said to do and pushed the other wagon forward in order to avoid engaging with Cakez so he can't rip you apart.

My point was and still is that it’s an easy push for agar to make. You’re saying she’s done stuff and I’m wrong- cool, whatever, I don’t remember it and am not really pushing the issue my main point is it’s a weak push from agar

Yes, the infamous "easy push" that has gotten all of *checks notes* 1 other vote and it would need 6 total. Marvelous play. I think y'all are confusing "easy push" with "push I don't like". Which, if y'all don't like it fine but say so and don't just hid behind "oh it's an easy push."

out of the remaining three, yeah I think I would have been the easiest to push if scum!you is just trying to survive, which I think is what UT was saying.

I really think you don't know what an easy push is.

re:

1245 See Boomer Take #1. Also your one point about questioning the townread is correct, and I misremembered exchanges with Notty post-Noraa/GE, but that's literally... *checks notes* your only contribution? Questioning a townread?

I really don’t feel the need to restate things that everyone else has already said when I’m catching up, and there’s only so many things to talk about that haven’t already been talked about

please provide examples of where you’ve contributed unique and new thoughts to this game

The origination of calling out GE's reaction to Noraa - not the argument, but the initial reaction that set off the argument. Followed up in 426 with further elaboration.
Arguiang the efficacy of actually utilizing the PTs we were given as more than just scum hiding their thoughts.
Giving what D1 reads I had on the four that were up to be yeeted
Pushing on VPB a bit for what I read as not entirely consistent reasoning

You can contribute in other ways. You can engage with - wild thought - multiple people. I started this day off questioning posts I found curious from notscience and UT. I spent parts of yesterday imploring that the four who were up to be yeeted not go dark because their interactions would help to build further connections and it was essential they actually participate.

In that vein I think this quote in hindsight seems like projection, because scum!agar has to push me in order to not have to get in a 1v1 with cakes:

Newsflash: I am still the leading candidate to be yeeted and Cakez is still on my ass about things so I don't really think your perception is reality.

Spent 11.5 hours and so far almost every waking minute staring at 600 acres worth of utility maps today. Going to go for a run to reset my brain/create a divide in the day for my own sanity, then I'll deal with some of the garbage in here, but boy do I have some fucking takes.

were you in prodrange before you made this post?

I think it's 72 hours to prod, so no? Not sure why that's relevant at all.

I think AGar’s reasons for not seeing Cakez as scummy here are pretty dodgy. Maybe Cakez needs something more to get him past the finish line, but that doesn’t mean his current course of action is any better. And honestly I don’t even see why Cakez needs something more to get by. I also think Lilith had a good point about AGar not wanting to get into a 1v1 with Cakez.
Another thing is that when I first saw Cakez’s read wall on AGar that also expressed that I was scum with AGar, the points made by Cakez seemed like he was reading things that could go either way on me (scum!AGar interacting with a scumbuddy or a townie), which kinda checked out as fair. Having done my own homework at this point, my mind changes and I feel like Cakez tried to cherry-pick points to make me look worse. I also still hold that Cakez’s interactions with me and Noraa weren’t good. When I add AGar’s dodgy Cakez defense to that I think Cakez is likely scum.

VOTE: VP Baltar
I don’t feel like my early reasons for finding him the scummiest out of the first challenge have been disrupted, and with AGar’s interactions making more sense as partnered with VP than with Pooky I think VP is decidedly the better vote here.
One last thing, no matter who gets voted out we should 100% let Starbuck come back and post content again before this challenge ends. I wasn’t satisfied with her contributions during the first challenge so a runback would solve a lot of my issues with her potentially.

[SirCakez]

I think AGar’s reasons for not seeing Cakez as scummy here are pretty dodgy. Maybe Cakez needs something more to get him past the finish line, but that doesn’t mean his current course of action is any better. And honestly I don’t even see why Cakez needs something more to get by. I also think Lilith had a good point about AGar not wanting to get into a 1v1 with Cakez.
Another thing is that when I first saw Cakez’s read wall on AGar that also expressed that I was scum with AGar, the points made by Cakez seemed like he was reading things that could go either way on me (scum!AGar interacting with a scumbuddy or a townie), which kinda checked out as fair. Having done my own homework at this point, my mind changes and I feel like Cakez tried to cherry-pick points to make me look worse. I also still hold that Cakez’s interactions with me and Noraa weren’t good. When I add AGar’s dodgy Cakez defense to that I think Cakez is likely scum.

this is just not true tho
it's impossible to cherry pick an ISO of 35 posts

[Gamma Emerald]

I feel like if you genuinely cared to sort me there you should have been able to tell AGar was trying to mis-exe me vs. trying to bus me
didn't you also assert AGar was calling Noraa scummy, something which was

absolutely factually untrue

?

[Gamma Emerald]

And with this pool who cares about easy pushes
Sometimes scummy people are just scum

while trying to confirm/bust that last question I came across this, which with AGar's scum flip I feel like seems pretty sus
I said before I'd be keeping a watchful eye for this sort of mindset, and I don't think Cakez's has good reason for this
While Cakez's case on AGar ended up solid, I think this mindset allows scum to get away with correct reads that have little reasoning rather than sticking their necks out to justify their reads.

[Gamma Emerald]

okay so it doesn't seem like Cakez was in support of that "scum called Noraa scummy but didn't vote her" theory, but I do want to actually comb the thread for who

was

pushing that concept, because it's blatantly wrong in AGar's case.

[Gamma Emerald]

that makes me feel a lot better about my "scum was sitting around calling noraa scummy but not actually voting her" take

I can't find any sign of anyone else pushing this logic. While I'd like to see how UT responds I'm not immediately inclined to distrust him for this, I think he may be in a position where it's less problematic to think this.

I'm pretty interested to hear from Starbuck today before the challenge as well.

what the fuck happened to this, though?

[VP Baltar]

what the fuck happened to this, though?

I changed my mind/got bored. This is more fun.

I can't believe you're calling Cakez scum when he was pretty key in Agar wagon.

[SirCakez]

I feel like if you genuinely cared to sort me there you should have been able to tell AGar was trying to mis-exe me vs. trying to bus me
didn't you also assert AGar was calling Noraa scummy, something which was

absolutely factually untrue

?

It didn't seem like he actually wanted you elimmed at all day one
Noraa was scummy...

[Gamma Emerald]

@VP It's also very advantageous to bus in this setup, and I have issues with the case that make me not like it. A lot of his AGar scumread seemed predicated on me being scum with AGar, which makes it a very problematic read ime when I don't think he should have been so confident about that. When I take out the bad reason of being associated with me, I don't see any real reason for Cakez to have SRed AGar. With the promise of a big case on AGar earlier, that seems pretty sketchy. If he thought AGar was scum merely because of the association with me, I think a) that would have shone through earlier and b) he wouldn't have projected as much confidence in that read.