Mini 639 - Sci-Fi/Fantasy Movie Mafia(Over!)

[Knight of Cydonia]

Me.
DUNDUNDUNNNN!
Just waiting for my role, etcetera.

[Knight of Cydonia]

...I just widdled meself laughing.
Anyway - in the fifth Hitchhiker's book, Mostly Harmless, the Guide is a kinda-evil multi-dimensional thing that can appear as pretty much anything, as far as I can remember. Gorrad, are you a multi-dimensional book of eeeevill?

[Knight of Cydonia]

Gorrad - fair enough.

You want a claim? Fine. I'm Samwise Gamgee, and I'm basically an NK resistant pro-town Vig. Which is nice.
Panzerjager - umm... maybe because farside thinks you're scum?

[Knight of Cydonia]

Doh. Someone could have mentioned we were just claiming movies. DX
Anyway, I'm reading back - I don't like the fact that Gorrad just said "I don't believe the claim" when in a game like this, I'd be willing to bet we have at least one investigator. SUrely it would have made more sense to scan ZS and then lynch him tomorrow(that is, today), if needs be?
Panzerjager - you seem to only really be popping your head over the trench to fire back at anyone who accuses you. J'accuse!
fuzzylightning - while it's perfectly valid to pressure someone into responding, xtoxm did say quite clearly he wouldn't be around. In my experience, stalling a day and winding it out longer is generally a scum-tell, as is attempting to push a wagon on someone who isn't around to defend themselves. You're doing both. Asplain.
More thought later, but for now, I need some taters.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Pressure voting on someone who is away = stalling.
You only retracted that vote after people pointed it out, which makes me think scum trying to create a quick wagon and lynch without anyway for the accuse to defend.

[Knight of Cydonia]

The difference being, everyone else didn't deliberately vote a V/LA player, and no-one was putting pressure on Gorrad. Also - not everyone can be scum.
I'm sorry, I don't buy this "Oh, I didn't see it" crap. You're also, rather than giving a decent defence, trying to call the entire town scum for stalling - which you've just done.

Vote fuzzylightning

[Knight of Cydonia]

farside22 - scum-hunting away, fits in with what I've seen of her town meta. Perhaps a little too aggressive, but could just be zeal.
Gorrad - Claim makes me more comfortable with him being town, although the fact he investigated zoraster doesn't make a huge amount of sense. Yeah you suspected him most, but I can't see a huge amount that looks like anything worse than a null tell, IMHO.
zoraster - null-tells ahoy! But seriously, I'm undecided here, maybe leaning slightly scum because of the sheer volume of nullness - it almsot looks like he's trying to be as *meh* as possible.
Grimmy - Hmmm. Jumped on fuzzylightning pretty quickly about the Xtoxm thing... I could see a triple-distance here: xtoxm goes V/LA, fuzzy jumps on him, then off as soon as Grimmy mentions teh fact Xtoxm can't defend himself. Hmmm. One to watch.
Panzerjager - "how is voting me scumhunting?" Overtly defensive, I haven't seen a huge amount of reasoning other than additions to existing cases. Worrisome.
Xtoxm - third place in my suspect list right now, V/LA at the moment but hasn't done anything to convince me of him being town.
DarlaBlueEyes(rp.Muerrto) - looking forward to a return tonight, would like to hear more - one of the less vocal players in the game. Bit of a null-tell at the moment.
Knight of Cydonia(rp.ashmite84) - All-round nice guy and furry-footed ninja.
fuzzylightning - "Tell us what you think of other people" - a scum-tell, IMHO - instead of defending yourself adequately with anything but "I didn't see him say he was V/LA!" you're trying to distract with other opinions. Are you hoping a family member will OMGUS me for this, or something?
Korts - Is he still here? Away until Sunday? Alright then. Another null, leaning town. Expect a decent post on return.

[Knight of Cydonia]

...He's very recently said that he's V/LA for a while. So therefore asking for content is pointless for now.
And for those who missed it, I claim Samwise Gamgee (Movie - Lord of the Rings), pro-town NK resistant Vig.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Other people were doing it early on, or to question possible scum. You're doing it in order to get people looking at my thoughts rather than you.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Damn. I thought he was back and we could get some proper questioning done.

[Knight of Cydonia]

NK immume vig?

Sounds like an SK to me.

Okay, WHAT?
On the basis of nothing but a role claim, you're trying to get me lynched as an SK, with no proof whatsoever? Christ, boyo. You'd better have a damn good explanation for that.

Rule 4
-Cow

[Knight of Cydonia]

Sorry cow. Got a bit excited there.

Gorrad - watch the Cirith Ungol section in Return of the King - he takes out three Orcs on his own, four if you count the one he backstabs on the ladder into Frodo's cell at the top of the Tower.
That enough killing for you?

[Knight of Cydonia]

I didn't shoot last night, I'm sure my predecessor had his reasons for this. Any further fishing as to my intentions tonight will be looked upon unfavourably as kill-fishing - Cow's interpretation of the movie is his decision, not evidence. He saw Sam ninja 3 Orcs solo in Cirith Ungol, and kill two in Moria with a frying pan - so it's not necessarily epic megadeath a la Aragorn, so what?

[Knight of Cydonia]

Whatever, Gorrad. Now can we get back to teh actual game in hand, or do you want to waste more time nitpicking over Cow's role-choices?

[Knight of Cydonia]

...Really? On what evidence? Is there anything to suggest that I'm an SK? No.
You're really grasping at straws here, Xtoxm, and it seems the closer we get to the deadline block each day, the more so you become.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Whatever. this is all nitpicking about Cow's role-picks, and nothing to do with the game.

unvote; Vote Xtoxm

for trying to use my claim, with no evidence whatsoever, to call me an SK.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Panzerjager and zoraster, when you pick up your prods, please each give me:
- top 3 suspects and why
- a vote, or a damn good reason why you're not voting.

Grimmy, Korts, Glork, same for you. Xtoxm, I know your feelings - although you haven't backed 'em up with a vote yet.

[Knight of Cydonia]

...What? Yes it did. Voting for xtoxm when he was away served only to stall the game, and I can't see how a day that's been slowed to near stop benefits the town.
It was the right vote, IMHO, but for the wrong reasons, at the wrong time.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Yeah, um, funnily enough, farside, I can only vote once at a time, so I can only apply pressure to stallers one at a time. fuzzy happened to be the most recent, and the most illogical - waiting for claims, fair enough, but voting someone who might not have come back for several days?

[Knight of Cydonia]

And the game stalls again. More xtoxm votes plz.

[Knight of Cydonia]

*sharpens Sting*
Eat... Moi... Taters.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Seconded. Full claim, or GTFO.

[Knight of Cydonia]

You have to be kidding me. I'm NK-immune, so lynch me, with no evidence whatsoever other than something which confirms my claim?
Here's a novel idea, fuzzy - wait and see who was RB'd and protected last night first.

[Knight of Cydonia]

...Wow. backtracking, much? Your entire evidence for lynching me is that your kill didn't succeed. I've already claimed that I'm NK resistant vig, but equally, you could well have been roleblocked - which might explain why no scum-kills were made last night.
I suggest you unvote until everyone claims night actions, if they wish to.
I'm sure once the results are out, we can progress from there.

[Knight of Cydonia]

You went from "I couldn't kill him! SCUM!" to "I just wanted to put a vote out there."
Like I say, I intend to wait for results of RBs and protection before I do anything.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Yes, I am one-shot. After that, I become a simple NK-resist townie, with a good, but not definite, chance of survival. I decided not to use my shot last night, because there were too many people I was unsure of, and no-one I would have been able to definitively say "Scum" against. I don't plan to shoot until I get a damn good idea of who I should.

Umm, I would like to call BS on KoC-Farside ness. I think KoC is godfaja/goon with Farside being a Scum Goon or Scum RB.

This could well be scripted.

Wow, that was a damn quick jump on, you two. Have you been doing some backroom editing for this rather dramatic scene?
I suggest that, seeing as all you have right now is my claim, you wait till tonight, and whoever can do so, scans me. I solemnly swear not to use my power until you verify me as Samwise, or at least as being from Lord of the Rings. Until then, I suggest we consider looking at cold, hard facts, rather than WIFOM interpretations of night activity.

[Knight of Cydonia]

I actually don't think Fuzzy is scum. His reasoning behind targeting me is good enough - he wanted to test my NK-resistance claim, I presume. Fair enough - it's a tactic that crap scum often use to dissuade night-killers, and it was a perfectly logical move for town. I think that a Doc - if we have one - may have blocked the scum kill, in which case that would be helpful. Otherwise - the scum may well have targetted me as well - again, to test my NK-resistance, since it would also make sense for protective pro-town roles to claim something like that, in some situations.
I will re-iterate though: I don't think Fuzzy is scum. I believe him, simply because his reasoning was good, even if he jumped to conclusions remarkably quickly.

[Knight of Cydonia]

So he got a little hasty. I t happens to the best of us. I'm not entirely dismissing him, I'm just saying, I'd be very reluctant to lynch him based on that. I prefer that he stuck to his guns than that he instantly jumped onto someone else from D2. That's what makes me lean town.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Like I said, discussing hte minutae of my role isn't grounds for a lynch. Just because something is typically so, doesn't make it always so - Cow can do what he likes with the roles.
Right now, the only evidence against me is that fuzzy tried to kill me, and failed doubly because of my resistance and farside's RB, and the fact that "Usually, NK-resist is SK". Emphasis on the "usually".
I suggest we all re-read, and go from there. That's what I'm doing.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Not only am I one-shot, I've not really formed solid scum/not scum opinions of anyone at the moment - a common problem I get when replacing. I'm getting leanings - I still think fuzzy is slightly town lean at the moment, I'm beginning to think Korts and DBE are town... the rest are all null at the moment. THere isn't a huge amount that stands out for me. I'm re-reading again to try and get a solid target for today.

[Knight of Cydonia]

How about you? ;D
No, I'm sorry, but I won't be pressured into wasting my shot.

[Knight of Cydonia]

I'll make a random kill tonight, on the condition that, if we have a Cop who can divine more than just Movie (i.e. actual character), they scan me to prove my innocence. I won't ask you to come forwards now, but I merely ask that you do so, if you're out there.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Because nobody asked about it until today.

[Knight of Cydonia]

fuzzy - why would farside lie about blocking you? And why would my NK-resist ability not waste your shot? Did you get some kind of flavour intimating this?
Gorrad - I think I know what you mean by "that extra bit" but I won't say anything.

[Knight of Cydonia]

I know I'm pro-town, and am willing to be investigated to prove so, if possible beyond movie.
I believe farside and fuzzy, simply because I can't see reasons for either of them to make this up (that would benefit as scum, at least - why would fuzzy claim failed kill on a no-kill night? Why would farside admit RBing him?)
I'm getting vibes about Panj still - a proper post tomorrow, after the Swiss make cheese of us.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Korts, I'm not claiming anything extra. I just think I know what Gorrad talks about when he says "extra bit". But I think I'd like a full-claim from you at some point today - I wouldn't mind if you don't want to, since I get a generally null-to-town vibe on you - but it would be handy.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Vote: Panzerjager

LAL, and if he is replaced, I really want to hear this birdie sing. Hasn't done much other than buddy up to others and slide under the radar, which really irritates me, since only scum should feel the need to avoid posting or garnering attention, out of fear they make a scum-slip.

[Knight of Cydonia]

PBPA of Panzerjager - Part 1:

Unvote: Vote Fuzzy Lightning

Pretty much says Hi guys you guys are dumb for arguing and we haven't gotten anywhere from it then says he needs to re-read the 3 pages tonight to find something interesting.

Why is there nothing to learn from the Korts/Rishi exchange? That is the thread right now. And there is definently plenty to learn from it and worth noting.

2 days RL after his random vote, puts a vote on Fuzzylightning for... what, exactly? Saying he needs to read the last few pages?
Also tries to put some eyes on Korts and Rishi, saying that is the entire thread at that point (not necessarily true) and that's what should be looked at.

I learned that Korts is a very aggressive player. I've seen some differences in Rishi's play and some of his explanation i don't really by because it conflicts with my past experiances with the guy. I also noticed that people didn't get the humor behind Rishi's statement, and along with Korts overreacting, Muerrto also overreacted. I have seen a distinct difference in playstyle from Farside as well, I actually like this style. And there is a few more little things I noticed that don't really matter.

I'm not gonna go into this more because I'm still building my thoughts, but I have definently garnered suspicions and it would not of happened without that conversation, so saying it wasn't important is just silly and scummy. And not having time to reread 3 pages is just a cop out in my opinion.

Uses meta to slight Rishi: "from my past experiences with this guy, it doesn't really fit in" (and let me say it unequivocally here - i despise using meta as solid evidence - consider it, yes, but it's not a case). Calls out Korts for being aggressive, and Korts and Muerrto for over-reacting... but wait!
He finally explains his fuzzy vote: "not having time to read three pages is just a cop out in my opinion" - so what, you've never jumped on at work to post a quick one so that you know where you're going when you get on at home? It's basically calling fuzzy a lurker, without saying "lurker".
Also: "I've garnered suspicions from this argument, and saying it's not important is scummy." Um... what? You finding something suspicious and others not finding it so isn't scummy. It's a difference of opinion.

@Farside, I did notice his join date and his townsperson status, My vote was a starter point and was really being used as a stern warning to say "find the deeper meanings, look harder". Also getting upset is not a scumtell. Also, his reaction seems to be a tad overdefensive so I'm keeping my vote there for now.

@Fuzzy, I wasn't implying that you were stupid, I was implying you were using the excuse of I need to reread as a way to buy more time, letting you mull over an answer while more information is given in thread. 3-4 pages in the game it seems very weird one would need to reread, and I understand life gets in the way occasionally, but just because the conversation is annoying is not a reason to skim. And it seems that it is more that you skimmed that you needed to reread then life getting in the way, like if you just read it through you wouldn't have needed to reread. Again, the conversation went plenty of places, you just have to read deeper.

Explains his vote to Farside, saying "his reaction is a tad over-defensive so I'm keeping it there for now".
So, what did you expect from him? You're voting him because he wanted to re-read - there's not a huge amount you can say to that other than "WTF?"
You then use a huge tangled paragraph to explain your position to fuzzy, which can be boiled down to: "I thought you were buying more time to put an answer together, and waiting for more info, and I think (with no evidence pointing to this whatsoever)you just skimmed and wanted more time.
He then says "the conversation went plenty of places, you just have to read deeper" - but again, I have never seen any explanation of what these "deeper" parts of the conversation were, or what you apparently gained from them, Panz.

***Insert useless off-topic conversational post to Gorrad about Comic-Con here***

Unvote, Vote:Muerrto

No content because your no contributing. To complain about content you must provide content. I'm convinced you are scum between your goading in the Rishi-Korts argument and this whole crap about no content. Only way to get content is to make content.

Umm... what? So by your logic, as soon as anyone starts lurking, their views become irrelevant? You misrep his over-reaction into "goading" of Rishi and Korts, and base your vote on the fact that someone who had provided more content than you was asking for people like you to post a bit more. Way to be.

But you said it twice Rishi. Korts voted me because my name means dead and I'm not dead, hence the LAL. Xtomx voted me because he tried to kill my invincible guy in the last game and bounced off, natch. You voted me supposedly 'random' and then stated twice a reason for it. If it's a joke, why reinforce it so much?

You poke your head in the argument to say boo Rishi, without actually commited yourself to the cause.

So people aren't allowed to have an opinion on something that directly involves them?

I think that was the point of the move on you, you didn't HAVE a reason but you stated one, twice.

I'm not calling for your lynch or anything but you surely understand we don't your PM so why would you do something that's obv gonna make us distrust you?

Another poke not exactly trying to get rishi lynched and you say the obvious "we don't know your role PM so why would you do something to purposly make us distrust you?" Mafia is a game of lies, dude. Everyone is lying. Town - Scum don't matter. Cop is trying to lie and make us perceive him as scummy but not too scummy or just an vanilla or whatever. Scum is trying to be town. Vanillas are trying to scum hunt and not be viewed as scummy.

Okay, this, this here, stinks. "Everyone is lying". Nope. I'm not lying. I'm pretty sure fuzzy ain't lying. Korts probably isn't lying.
"Cop is trying to lie and make us percieve him as scummy but not too scummy" No, he isn't. Cop generally wants to look as town as possible, IME.
"Vanilla's are trying to scum hunt and not be too scummy" - so they're not lying then? You've just contradicted yourself IN THE SAME POST. And only scum usually need to lie.

My bad, you said it twice cause you EBWOP.

Personally, I don't think it's a big deal and I think Korts and you both are making too big a deal out of it. Let's hear from some of the quiet ones.

"Oh, my bad I didn't get the info right cause I was trying to pin you as scum. How about we just drop this because we are loosing steam"

Wow. What post were you reading? And this is where your argument about Muerrto "goading" Korts and Rishi falls down - here he is, actually trying to stop the argument, whilst being a lot more civil than you were about the whole thing.

Um...so there's the quote where he said over-reacted without actually quoting where I over-reacted. Reading truly is fundamental and somewhat necessary in a forum game.

So Panzer voting me after he himself said it is bad, Korts following up without any reason and without obviously even reading the thread is worse.

Also, Panzer, you seem to be voting me because of my lack of content. Can you tell me what's the difference between myself and the multiple other people not contributing? I've actually contributed more than several other people so far so an explanation of your 'I'm convinced he's scum' would be great. On page 5 no less...

Overreacting was the wrong word. You were being low key and was making little attempts at pinning Rishi then jumped off as soon as the wagon started to dissipate. You also Ad-Hom me in this post saying reading is essential in forum games, and Sir, I have been reading and noting a lot more then just about anyone in this game. What did I say was bad, please use quotes. And the difference between you and the lurkers is you have been have been making little worthless half attacks on rishi then disappeared after the wagon was down and then came back and complained about content.

It seems that you are lurking in plain sight.

That bolded section? That's what I politely like to think of as the "pot calling kettle: you're black." section.
Pulls out of his "overreacting" argument, trying to redress it up as something else entirely. Claims to have been reading and noting more than anyone else in this game - so where is all this wonderful info you've been taking note of, Panz? It's certainly never popped up in your posts.
Oh, and no attack is ever worthless, and you yourself admitted Rishi was over-reacting, so Muerrto was perfectly right to take a look at him.

Also in case anyone's interested Panzer currently has 6 posts with multiple vote changes while I have 8 with only 1 vote, for Rishi.

So I've contributed more content than the person he's trying to call out for lack thereof.

Unvote

Vote for Panzer pending his explanation that way I can use quotes(something he doesn't do apparently) so he can see my vote is not OMGUS.

So what you have 2 more post, that were added after I made that comment btw, and who cares if I have a joke vote and a pressure vote to my name right now? Does the number of votes really matter? And before you start going there, you should really meta me and see if vote hopping is abnormal. But since farside isn't wanting meta reasoning I'll give some more concrete reasoning; you haven't contributed more then have. My post have been much bigger and contained much more actual content then your posts have, which leads back to who the hell cares about post count. And I use quotes when they are necessary, not just because.

Also I love how you unvote, but don't actually vote me then say it's because you don't want to OMGUS, which really means, "I don't want to vote without anyone else's helped and I hope he talks himself into a hole here"

And before I end this post, I would like to say you overreacted and got defensive quite quickly about me saying you overreacted.

"Does the number of votes I've made really matter?" Um, YEAH. You've flip-flopped onto whoever you thought you could pull a tiny case together on. Pre-emptively calls Muerrto OMGUS for waiting for a response before voting him - which would technically be the absolute opposite of OMGUS, since he's waiting for you to post something before he puts his vote down - as opposed to just voting you straight away.

I'll go through the rest later.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Claim please, Panzer.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Panzer, if you don't claim a role, even one no-one will ever believe, we can't ridicule it. Claim please.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Panzer, if you can prove your innocence with a claim and evidence, we'll let you off. Just freaking claim already.

[Knight of Cydonia]

I randomised my kill, and aimed at Korts.
SensFan - I have no idea why it failed.
I can tell you my shot *is* now expended, and I am merely a townie with a good,
but not perfect, chance of survival.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Yup. I'm actually kind of glad someone blocked or docced, since you're probably the only person I would say is almsot certainly town.

[Knight of Cydonia]

I didn't want to interfere with the randomness of the kill - I felt that if I started playing around with it, based on my opinions, it would just ruin the point of the thing.
SensFan - I did what you asked me to, and you are presumably voting for me for that reason. Why?
Gorrad - saying doing what the town asked (a random kill) is scummy is like saying voting for someone a proven pro-town RB has outed is scummy. I did what the town asked, and that is no good reason for a vote.
Neither is "I get an off read on him" without some evidence.

[Knight of Cydonia]

We have at least 1 RB, possibly also a jailkeep or doc.
Just because one player has been blocked, doesn't mean the mafia haven't just expected this and with-held their kill, or that the mafia target was docced.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Accusing me of being scum simply because I was one of the people whose night actions were affected is pointless, because scum could have with-held their kill, or targeted someone else who was protected, or been blocked separately.
Farside - who did you RB last night? If it was me, I figure I'm screwed. If it was someone else, we should at least look at it, because that means we also have a doc or JK.

FoS Grimmy for taking me to L-1 on a coincidence.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Posting this in all my games - I will be away from the 22nd to the 26th, on a field trip. The hotel may have WiFi access - we don't know yet. I'd like to stay, but I'll understand if you want to replace.

[Knight of Cydonia]

So, basically, I'm being lynched because of no NKs (which could be doc blocking mafia and RB blocking me, and therefore arguing I'm scum because of that is pointless), and because apparently Samwise Gamgee was a fakeclaim once, therefore will always be a fakeclaim, forever and ever.
Any other piles of crap you want to shovel onto me?

[Knight of Cydonia]

I've grasped it... and it's not much of a case. Simply blocking my kill, when we can be fairly sure of a Doc or another RB out there, is no real proof of scum.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Unless they're the scum RB, and have a good reason to keep quiet - namely, lynching someone they can't NK.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Bah.

[Knight of Cydonia]

That damn jailer really threw a spanner in the works.
Me and farside would have probably tied this up a night earlier if it wasn't for him.
Well played to keep it going, though, farside.
And sorry for basically sacrificing your like that, Xtoxm, but yeah... you were sucking pretty hard.
In retrospect, I should have claimed Samwise as a bodyguard rather than vig... but hey, scum still won.