Mini 653 - Family Guy Mafia - Game over
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LlamaFluff Jack of All Trades
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LlamaFluff Jack of All Trades
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vote goboragefor even thinking about character claiming
Of course given a restriction of mine I doubt that vote will be of much use.-
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LlamaFluff Jack of All Trades
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Again, a complete character claim isnt the best path to take D1, this will simply add speculation which is not needed. This is the type of time I wish my vote counted.goborage wrote:Vote: Kmd4390You're what the Spaniards call El Terrible.-
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LlamaFluff Jack of All Trades
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Fair enough, two quotes from a secondary character was unusual though. Im assuming you see my point in thinking character claim is bad though?goborage wrote: Not a character claim. I suppose the first quote didn't really make sense (it was something along the lines of "this is my house"). #2 being Cleveland was coincidence. I just felt that that needed to be said.
Well just wait for the votecount, my vote never gets counted. I got hit with a restriction, lucky me. If I didnt claim at VC people would start trying to figure out who was causing what to happen regarding why the votes were off, so I decided to put out my restriction early on. This saves time later.Anyways if anyone is making early claims it's you. What's the point of telling us that your vote doesn't count? Are you trying to pass this off as some kind of pro-town role handicap? Why would anyone other than scum do that?-
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LlamaFluff Jack of All Trades
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Correct, with me on a wagon it basically becomes 8 to lynch instead of 7. I do think goborage should be getting a few votes though, apart from the name claim thing, his willingness to put me under suspicion for just having a vote restiction is scummy to me.GhostWriter wrote: We've already had one of the players tell us of a restriction, that involves us not seeing their vote. This may have something to do with it. And since that person said the restriction caused their vote not to count, it may work both ways. Some won't show and will count, some won't show and won't count, some will show and won't count... That's what I'm seeing, anyway.-
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LlamaFluff Jack of All Trades
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Labling me scum for having a vote restiction is in itself scummy though, not a town action. Given rule 12 I doubt im the only one with this problem too. My attempts to end RV stage over this seem futalgoborage wrote: Anyways as a townie it is my duty to scrutinize your every move LF.-
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LlamaFluff Jack of All Trades
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First off, why does careless = scum? I am playing the way that I think is best to play with a detremental vote restriction, which is to put it out there right away.Xtoxm wrote: If you are town, you have just told the scum that you are a voteless townie, and that they don't want to touch you at night. The optimal strategy of a voteless townie is to keep trying and try to attract the NK.
So, if you are town, you have been careless.
Why did you claim?
I claimed so people know that something is wrong with my vote. There is nothing wrong with that to me, its like claiming miller. A headsup to the town that later on in the day my role might start causing problems for the town. I really dont see what is wrong with what I did, you only seem to criticize me because it leads to a lower chance of me getting NKed, which again will hurt the town because...?
One thing that we need to realize about role claiming is the mod will very very likely not make it so scum loses in a character claim. This would be a poor move on their side and I dont see farside doing this. I am sure if you think of every character and episode you can connect them as scum somehow. This is why character claiming and speculation is bad, it will simply lead to cases that are built on who the player is and not what they have been doing, which is easily exploited by scum.-
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LlamaFluff Jack of All Trades
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QFTKmd4390 wrote:So voteless roles get us closer to LYLO.
So does a mislynch.
It is not a good lynch unless you really think that llama is scum.
This is a very anti-town mindsetxotxm wrote:So even if you are telling the truth, you are still useful to get rid off, anf lyncing will be the only way, as you have such an anti-town role. And, we might get scum.
unvote
vote xtoxm-
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LlamaFluff Jack of All Trades
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Well my vote doesnt count remember that is a little fast though. I think that might change though when Crub who random voted him checks in next. Right now I am happy with my "vote" thoughbabygirl86 wrote:woa guys its still early in day 1 and xtoxm is already at l-2? I'm not sure bout that- we've barely had time to gather any info at all.
However, you just are commenting on the ammount of votes and not what you think of him. What are your thoughts on the happenings, not the ammount of votes people have.-
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LlamaFluff Jack of All Trades
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So who is scummier then xtoxm right now?Crub wrote:unvoteAre you guys serious?
Is this you saying you dont agree with the wagon? If not why?Inspector Godot wrote:Unvote, Vote Dalt
Seemed like a very sneaky attempt at trying to get more people on Xtoxm's bandwagon.-
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LlamaFluff Jack of All Trades
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So who is scummy then? You are just shooting down all different suspects without giving us any of your own here.Inspector Godot wrote:
No, I don't support the wagon. It's rolling too fast and I kind of agree with xtoxm's point. Not saying I think you're scummy or that you are best candidate for a lynch, but your claim is pretty bad in a LYLO situation.LlamaFluff wrote:Is this you saying you dont agree with the wagon? If not why?-
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LlamaFluff Jack of All Trades
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Well starting monday...farside22 wrote:LlamaFluff informed me he will be on V/LA for about 3 days. This is fine. I will not replace anyone who informs me of time off unless the time off is excessive. Also be aware of Rule 10 when it comes to not only prodding, but posting context. Thank you.
*facepalm* Ok, so because I have a vote restriction it makes me a policy lynch? Thats really all I am getting from you for why you are voting me. I know my role isnt the most powerful thing in the world, but you are saying that simply because its weak im the lynch. Why is the claim scummy too? Do you have information to suggest that scum have voting handicaps?xtoxm wrote:My point about LF is that he is either an anti-town role, or full blown scum. If he was 100% cleared then I wouldn't want him lynched, but he can be scum. So I think this makes him a very good day one lynch. I did not say I think LF is town, but I want him lynched anyway. I've found his claim to be quite scummy, actually.
Given this last post I still like a xotxm lynch.-
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LlamaFluff Jack of All Trades
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I did expect some questioning and a little suspicion but I never expected someone saying policy lynch.thinktank wrote:Did you really think it was a good idea to claim this early? Are you really surprised by people casting suspicion on you?
Well I misinterpreted my PM when I claimed believing my vote never showed or counted so made a quick claim to avoid confusion at the first VC. Now I know it shows but doesnt count so would of withheld claiming unless I was on a lynching wagon.You could have easily played around it without giving information that could be very vital to scum. I believe your claim although it was a terrible idea to claim. Just because careless does not equal scum doesn't give people liberty to do so.
Well xotxm is the scummiest in my book right now, earning him my "vote", and I look forward to hear some more from him on his policy lynch. The only other people who have pinged me a bit are goborage and IG.I will not support your lynch based on Xtoxm 's logic and I think he is being careless in that, or scummy. Take your pick.-
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LlamaFluff Jack of All Trades
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Well im probally not using the right words, but I really dont know what I can even say to you if you are going to vote me purely based on a role. Maybe its not a policy lynch of a player but of a role (again not sure if this is the right wording). Will you at least consider other suspects at this day drags on or should I just not even try to convince you to do anything else?Xtoxm wrote:
It is not a policy lynch, I never said that and you are putting words into my mouth now. Please don't.Well xotxm is the scummiest in my book right now, earning him my "vote", and I look forward to hear some more from him on his policy lynch.
Question to you though - If you had my role would you be asking for people to lynch you if it got outed?-
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LlamaFluff Jack of All Trades
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Does this mean if he added a QFT you wouldnt of cared about this vote?GhostWriter wrote: 2. Dalt's voting of Xtoxm: You simply jumped on the vote, after having said nothing about it, not even bothering to give it a QFT or anything of the such. What about Xtoxm got you, personally, to suspect him enough to vote?-
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LlamaFluff Jack of All Trades
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Wait, no you would care or no you wouldnt of cared?GhostWriter wrote:No, I was giving an example, like how the very post that he quoted contained such a phrase.-
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LlamaFluff Jack of All Trades
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His only point is my role isnt strong for town. I have yet to hear any points from him or anyone about my play being scummy. If you think there is anything except my role against me then please, enlighten me. I ask the same thing to you though as I did xtoxm. Would you be selfvoting if you were in my position?goborage wrote:I don't really get the wagon on xtoxm. He raises good points you know.
Im going to try and calm myself and reread. I dont like xtoxm's stance to much but can see it from paranoid town.-
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LlamaFluff Jack of All Trades
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Skimmed a bit, im having a hard time getting a observer standpoint given my involvement level. RF needs to post again, preferably a continuance of post 63 given how hesitant he was to act back then (for decent reasons though). I would like to hear more from thinktank and BG.
I still dont like gobo or xtoxm but am calming a little on those fronts.
GW now is confusing me. In 89 he brings up dalt for the xtoxm wagoning, without adding any reason for the vote and pressing for more reasoning. In 96 however he posts that with reasoning he still would of disliked the vote, which means that he is on dalt for placing xtoxm at a fourth vote instead of not supplying sufficent reasoning. I dont like how the reasoning for pressure changed from lack of reasoning to placement of vote here. So while pressuring dalt who is turning into a wagon GW seems conflicted on the reason for the pressure and is not voting for him.
unvote, vote GhostWriter-
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LlamaFluff Jack of All Trades
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Well I have this down as a question/response
LlamaFluff wrote:
Does this mean if he added a QFT you wouldnt of cared about this vote?GhostWriter wrote: 2. Dalt's voting of Xtoxm: You simply jumped on the vote, after having said nothing about it, not even bothering to give it a QFT or anything of the such. What about Xtoxm got you, personally, to suspect him enough to vote?
Your intial post against dalt sounded like a QFT was acceptable so that is what I acted on. So does this mean if dalt wrote out some reasoning (not QFT) then you would not of turned to him as suspicious? A yes or no here, no a most likely.GhostWriter wrote:No, I would have cared.
My point of you calling him suspect while his wagon is forming and you not voting him still stands though.-
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LlamaFluff Jack of All Trades
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Alright so the move against dalt was based on how the wagon was joined. Not based on what vote number he was or the wagoneeGhostWriter wrote:If he had written a reasoning with his vote, and actual reasoning, then no, he would not have seemed suspicious, because at least it would have looked like he was doing more than jumping on a bandwagon.
IG and xotxm are voting him now. With you and at least one other mentioning him its the closest thing we have to a second wagons so I am treating it as such.And what bandwagon on him are you seeing? He has ONE VOTE. That hardly seems like a bandwagon, unless the meaning of the word has changed, in which I will admit that I'm wrong.
Fair enough, I usually vote quite a bit during the first day untill I start getting a clear idea of what im actually doing, and react badly to people who dont like voting. At what point would you feel dalt should be voted though? Dalt does need to talk though.Why am I not voting him? Because that reason alone is not enough for me to warrant a vote. I prefer to use my votes like a doctor uses a scalpel, not swing them around like a sword. If I were going to vote him, it'd be to create pressure, but I'm not going to do that. One reason is that this can be done with words, as I was trying to do with the initial post involving the QFT statement. Another is because he still has not shown up after A) The first vote was placed upon him and B) My question to him was asked.
unvotefor now as I wait for a response from goborage.-
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LlamaFluff Jack of All Trades
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bump to above the lock happy MeMe as I still wait for goborage-
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LlamaFluff Jack of All Trades
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This is good. I dont like how gobo is pressuring me for a role but it is understandable. What doesnt make sense is that he has only a FoS on me, and is still random voting kmd. It seems like he is trying to get a wagon started but isnt willing to contribute a vote as xotxm has already backed off the case.RestFermata wrote:Goborage looks strange to me. He defends himself against allegations of character claiming...then proceeds to all but character claim in the very same post ("Being Cleveland is just a coincidence.") Since we've already been through how any character could potentially be a villain, especially in an essentially villain-free show such as Family Guy, it almost seems like scum excited to make a safe but of course uncontestable claim like Cleveland, a character that seems minimally suspicious.
I still want him to answer the last questions I asked him, and will go ahead andvote goborageuntill he explains his stances and responds to my question.-
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LlamaFluff Jack of All Trades
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Ergh, again lets map out some situations to show you how your argument stalls outXtoxm wrote:And my suggestion did (does) make copius sense, as his presence, if town, move the day we reach lylo forward by one. So lynching him is no loss AT ALL. Either that, or he is scum. But for some reason you guys don't like it.
D1 - I get lynched
N1 - town killed
D2 - Random town lynched
N2 - town killed
D3 - random town lynched
N3 - game over with town dead
This plan puts us at D2 with no information to go on whatsoever D1 and two town down. This also will lose the game if you are town since D2 you would need a miracle to talk your way out of lynching me, and basically leave us needing three straight scum lynches to win. All this with no vigs
Now lets look at it my way
D1 - random town lynched
N1 - town killed
D2 - random town lynched
N2 - town killed
D3 - my restiction no lynches us or town gets lynched
N3 - game over
This plan still leaves us with two mislynches to spare, and thats it. Unlike lynching me first, there is no backlash on town who votes me that would let scum drive at least one mislynch, and maybe win the game flat out.
The ONLY difference is if you want three town mislynches or two with a no lynch. With the second plan, town would know who scum was D3 with high likelyhood too, meaning that a no lynch opens doors for a vig picking off scum.
Plan two is much better by my planning, it provides us with much more to go on, and more information for the power roles. I still dont know if you are misguided town or not, but I dont like your defense of goborage. If you paid attention, my case on him was not completely dependant on him thinking im scum for my role. It has to do with how he is pushing the thought.-
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LlamaFluff Jack of All Trades
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gobo did it in a way where he implied who he was. RF called another player a character name (which is not claiming) and TT you would really need to be reaching to be calling that a claim. Gobo said two quotes from the same character in a way that he himself was saying them.elvis_knits wrote:Llama -- why didn't you have a problem with thinktank or restfermata for bringing up characters?
Im still a little busy but should be able to get fully caught up tonight with a bigger post.-
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LlamaFluff Jack of All Trades
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@GW you are missing the point of why a claim is bad. In this game, any character can arguably be any alignment and have any ability. If we open it up to a massclaim, or even if a few people claim, people will start speculation on what characters are what alignment, what their roles are, and other things of that nature. Hell BG is already starting to do that and we dont even know if we had an actuall claim.
I think that if we had a massclaim (I am NOT suggesting one) I could point you to an episode that each character could be considered scum from their actions. However some characters would be more considered to be town and others scum. When everyone is known scum can start manipulating cases into partial attacks on who the character is.
So yes I got aggressive when gobo made two refrences to the same character in the way he did. Having people start claiming, even jokingly is a horrible thing as it opens the doors to speculation. I was not attempting to instigate a role claim with my actions but to shut down anyone from following suit.-
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LlamaFluff Jack of All Trades
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I know I did. That was intentional for the reason of character claiming being bad. Was I 100% beyond a doubt sure that gobo had just fullclaimed? No of course not. The thing was he was being very careless with his role if he is Cleveland, and could of been trying to instigate a mass character claim. In this setup I view character claim as a bad thing, so I wanted to shut it down before it even started to begin. I dont understand why that is a bad thing to try and do.GhostWriter wrote: It was you who first started pointing at him about a claim, no one else did until after you set it up to look that way, and THAT is why I have a FoS on you.-
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LlamaFluff Jack of All Trades
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Again this is kind of my point for the flip out. There is no way to tell what someone is by their character name. I wanted to kill any chance of people claiming characters accidently, jokingly, or flat out day one. I honestly dont know how many times I can say that.reborn537 wrote: Ignoring the claim for the meantime, because it is a null tell (bastard moddery seems to be in effect in most theme games that I've been in).
I tend to vote a lot in the early game, seriously go meta. Its a fairly logical path too but that doesnt seem something you are concerned about pointing out here. Semi-random Gobo for possibly claiming, xtoxm for his stance on my role, GW for something that didnt seem to add up, unvoted since it was explained well (adding this did nothing to your cases strength but made me look worse, nice scum play), and then gobo who I had declared intention to vote in 104, and after 24 hours of him not posting voted.Llama's (non?)vote has been moving around like a weathervane, and as we all know wishy-washiness is a big scumtell.
1) Gob (for thinking of character claiming - this after ONE Cleveland quote I might add, and right before he full claims his role)yep, was semi-random then. I wanted to shut down any chance at him continuing it
2) Xtoxm (let's face it, this is pretty OMGUS, although I'm not sure I like Xtoxmm that much myself)voting someone pushing bad logic on you really isnt pure OMGUS. The reason xtoxm was giving to get me lynched was horrible and anti-town
3) Ghostwriter (post 100... trying to make sense of this... go and look back, I guarantee headache)Something wasnt adding up, I voted and prodded to figure out if it was worth persuing, it wasnt
4) unvotes a couple of posts later (post 104, but who's counting?)GW explained it well enough for me, I had no reason to keep voting
5) Back on goborage (basically because goborage was afk I think)Are you not reading my posts? I voted gobo partially on afk since he had not answered my questions. There also was the fact of how he was pushing me by simply agreeing with xtoxm while not even voting or continuing a case on me.
Given that you are gobo, and this case hinges on me flipping out at gobo for the claim thing which no one has explained how trying to stop a character claim is anti-town. And the second part is that I move my vote around a lot, which I do in every game, as my suspicions change. I am fine with my vote on you/gobo for now.
@RF - I posted a question to gobo in post 98. In 104 I brought it up again since it was unanswered (and again in 108). Finally in 112 I voted for gobo since 24 hours had passed since my 104. Unlike you though I dont like gobos replacement too much, since the case he is pushing against me is for something that no one has explained why its a scum-tell, and a voting pattern that when you look at my posting pattern is at worse a null-tell.
@BG - Am I correct that the only thing you have against me is the fact that I pushed gobo over the possible Cleveland claim? When you left the dalt wagon to vote me I guess that means EK wipes his slate clean and you decided to pressure me over calling an anti-town claim ?-
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I dont consider the way I vote scummy. I stated already that I had reasons and even spelled them all out for you again. What happens? You just ignore them, and say "oh thats scummy". A scummy vote is one that is opportunistic or has no backing. I feel each time I moved my vote it was for a legitimate reason and you havent shown me otherwise. You keep ignoring my defense of a poor attack and repete it, scum move.reborn537 wrote:
This basically amounts to "I always act scummy in early game, seriously, go meta."LlamaFluff wrote:I tend to vote a lot in the early game, seriously go meta. Its a fairly logical path too but that doesnt seem something you are concerned about pointing out here.
Damnit you arent going to listen to me are you? Tell me, show me, where my votes were bad. If you eliminate my first vote of the game I have cast three at this time. One for someone pushing poor logic, one for what I percieved as a vote for something different then stated, and once for pushing a case that wasnt being voted. That makes it ok and right to me, seriously, show me what votes I made are anti-town, tell me why, then we can have a discussion on whats going on.Wishy-washiness is a scum-tell. You can't get around it by saying that you always do it. That doesn't make it ok, or right.
*cough* crap argument *cough* I pushed the gobo character claim because it was a bad idea. Yes? Now I am defending doing that, if people would stop saying thats a reason im scum, then it will go away. I am not going to stop defending crap arguments though. You STILL are ignoring the rest of my case on gobo too.Everything you've done so far has led to distraction of the town, for many pages. The goborage thing wasted the town's time for so long and was made up out of thin air.
Also, what is this BS that I am OMGUSing you when my vote was on gobo before you even replaced into this game? Gobo is my top scum pick so I am voting gobo. You replace in and still look bad, if not worse to me given that the case you are pushing on me is weak as hell and you arent countering any of my points, but simply reitterating your inital case
Given that I am starting to doubt you are closely reading my posts, I will make my points into nice little questions for you
1) Which of my votes are "anti-town"?
2) Why is trying to stop a character claim anti-town?-
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I still like looking at reborn more then BG at this point, when he came in he made pretty much a BS case on me right off the bat and still hasnt answered my last questions I posed to him, instead commenting on BG.
I also am interested to see where EKs push on IG takes us.-
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Inspector Godot wrote:Good job spotting that BG/Xtoxm connection. It does seem very suspicious. When I have time to do a reread (probably tomorrow) I'll look into it some more.
Expansion on these two quotes would be nice.RestFermata wrote: I'd be OK with either an xtoxm or BG wagon, as well. If we lynch one and he/she turns out scum, it'll shed more light on the other.-
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........... wowbabygirl86 wrote:alright guys you know what? I don't know what else to sat because I'm just gonna end up repeating myself over and over if I attempt to defend myself and I'm sick of being attacked. I am bonny, one half of a lover pair. I won't tell who my lover is- if he wants to announce it he can but if you lynch either one of us, the other dies as well.
I honestly dont see why you just claimed this, you were at what L-5? With two people looking into your case and most others pushing other things? I dont see why you would of just pulled this type of thing. So - Do you know for sure your lovers alignment?-
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Well ive been thinking a bit about scum-town lover pairing, and im not sure the right path to take on it. For now though it seems lynching xtoxm/BG isnt the right move
@Lovers - Is it a instant or delayed suicide death?
That said I think that reborn and IG are the best paths to take. While I slightly prefer a reborn lynch today, lots of what IG says feel forced and scummy. Later on tonight I should have some more concrete stuff up on both of them.-
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this game hasnt been getting enough of my attention, I will should have a larger post up later today-
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LlamaFluff Jack of All Trades
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First off
It makes him look more scum then town, but is not something to lynch him on alone. I have described to death why I think character claim is bad, so anything that I percieve as someone either claiming or instigating a claim is scummy in my book. There are other reasons I had gobo as scum though which I outlined in my 21. From the way reborn has acted around my case doesnt help quell any suspicions though.Dragon reg. gobo-claim wrote:Do you think this makes him scum?
Also for my restriction, when I first announced it I interpreted it a different way then it actually was. I thought my vote never showed up, while in actuallity it does show, but just doesnt count. Basically my vote is an FoS, so if I was on a wagon that hit 7 votes, it wouldnt lynch.
On to bigger things - the lovers should find out if its a delayed suicide or not. I have seen instant suicide games and ones where its delayed by either a day or night (ie BG killed N1 xtoxm suicides end of D2). Either way both lovers should be kept off the chopping blocks today.
My main suspicions hover around reborn and IG.
For reborn, the case he is pushing on me seems to of burnt out a bit. After I explained my vote reasoning, the case just seems to of been stopped and he now is arguing with dragon about how scumtells are universal or not. The OMGUS basically of dragon who has a good post up on reborn in 293. I still would like answers from reborn about which of my votes are opportunistic or scummy and reasoning behind them. Once I asked for that information he has gone quiet and now seems to be basing my case more on the fact that he thinks dragon is defending me.
In post 295 my kmd-town vibe commited suicide. While in dragons inital vote there was no overwhelming case, 293 was strong and it seems to of been brushed aside as you pick apart the summary case. Reborn and IG still are much higher then you though.
IG seems be speculating and fishing quite a bit about my restriction and the cleveland issue. There are no solid conclusions though regarding these things, leaving them at "Im not sure" allowing movement to any side of the issue as needed later on. After the lover claim, in two consecutive posts he speculates about a scum lover.
In his aggressions IG right now has EK for previously mentioned reasons (which I have a hard time finding) and me for being overzealous? Can you explain each of those a little better, especially how you are attributing me being overzealous to me being scum. The EK vote bugs me when it was cast too as EK "made some good points". Making good points is something that I naturally attribute to a town tell, maybe this was just due to having no other suspects at the time though.
So I think reborn still is the best bet today, he seems to just be falling apart right now in his argument with dragon, still isnt backing up the reasons he is voting me too well and just general scumminess. IG also doesnt look too well as he spends most of his time speculating about roles and his suspicions are either hard to find or completely baseless.-
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LlamaFluff Jack of All Trades
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I think reborn and IG are better paths then trying to figure out if RF slipped or not, especially with a deadline approaching that I will have limited access around
With all replacement I have been pondering the possiblity of an extention. If enough people request an extention one will be given but it will most likely only be a 4 day extention at best.-
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LlamaFluff Jack of All Trades
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First, why are we voting TT? Seriously can anyone give me any reason for voting him that is better then, I dunno, almost everyone? Really, this just seems a random wagon and BG is still making me uncomfortable.
I still like reborn more then any other wagon right now. Even if I lay aside everything that gobo did (well there isn’t much to lay aside) he looks pretty scummy. When he entered he immediately went after me, arguably OMGUS style since my vote was on gobo for having voted four times within three people. I have explained all of my votes and why I placed them already, but he still has not answered with an explanation of why any of my votes were scummy, just says that voting that much is wishy-washy and a scum tell.
Later reborn decides to call my vote of him (which was present when he replaced in) OMGUS. This is using false evidence to try and further a lynch of me. Also he is discounting my entire push at gobo for the “claim” thing as made up. While it is obvious that in gobos first and second post he does put out Cleveland quotes.
Following up with my push to get why my votes are scummy, reborn decides it is best to ignore my explanation of votes, and just say that I am metaing myself. There was no attempt here to explain which of my votes made me scum.
The whole dragon conflict more pisses me off than anything else. You guys really need to just break it into quotes and respond that way, it really isn’t too hard to do and helps me read it accurately. Your religion to the wiki here kind of bugs me though. It seems you read that wishy-washy voting is something scum always does, you might of seen it in a game once, so you are taking it as a universal constant. This does not make me mafia though, and it seems to be the main thing you are voting me because of.
The rest of this seems to be you yelling at dragon for poking holes in your case against me. If your case holds that little water, chances are its really weak. That honestly is one of my reasons for thinking you are scum right now. You come in an post a case that hinges half on my votes which you STILL have yet to explain which are scummy and anti-town and half on the claim thing which is my views on the game and is pretty indefensible.
The unwillingness to explain what makes my votes scummy and your misrepresenting me is enough to keep my vote right where it is, and should be enough to be attracting other votes.-
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LlamaFluff Jack of All Trades
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No one has told me why TT is getting votes instead of reborn.-
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not gunna vote either are you?Kmd4390 wrote:I May not be able to post until Monday night.-
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I still would like a reborn lynch before an IG lynch, although this is a better path then TT. I think that IG should claim at about 72 hours to deadline though so we dont get stuck in a scramble for a target-
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LlamaFluff Jack of All Trades
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modplease prod IG
IG should claim now, that way we still have time to strike up another wagon if needed-
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LlamaFluff Jack of All Trades
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Fair enoughXtoxm wrote:Llama - If you are town, could you please stop using your "vote". It's just confusing. Could you instead use an FOS in place of your vote or something?unvote.
Im fine with the IG lynch, although I think a reborn lynch nets a better chance at catching scum.-
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reborn537 wrote:You still haven't made a case on me.
I think we still can get this wagon off in time peoplemy case in post 379 wrote:I still like reborn more then any other wagon right now. Even if I lay aside everything that gobo did (well there isn’t much to lay aside) he looks pretty scummy. When he entered he immediately went after me, arguably OMGUS style since my vote was on gobo for having voted four times within three people. I have explained all of my votes and why I placed them already, but he still has not answered with an explanation of why any of my votes were scummy, just says that voting that much is wishy-washy and a scum tell.
Later reborn decides to call my vote of him (which was present when he replaced in) OMGUS. This is using false evidence to try and further a lynch of me. Also he is discounting my entire push at gobo for the “claim” thing as made up. While it is obvious that in gobos first and second post he does put out Cleveland quotes.
Following up with my push to get why my votes are scummy, reborn decides it is best to ignore my explanation of votes, and just say that I am metaing myself. There was no attempt here to explain which of my votes made me scum.
The whole dragon conflict more pisses me off than anything else. You guys really need to just break it into quotes and respond that way, it really isn’t too hard to do and helps me read it accurately. Your religion to the wiki here kind of bugs me though. It seems you read that wishy-washy voting is something scum always does, you might of seen it in a game once, so you are taking it as a universal constant. This does not make me mafia though, and it seems to be the main thing you are voting me because of.
The rest of this seems to be you yelling at dragon for poking holes in your case against me. If your case holds that little water, chances are its really weak. That honestly is one of my reasons for thinking you are scum right now. You come in an post a case that hinges half on my votes which you STILL have yet to explain which are scummy and anti-town and half on the claim thing which is my views on the game and is pretty indefensible.
The unwillingness to explain what makes my votes scummy and your misrepresenting me is enough to keep my vote right where it is, and should be enough to be attracting other votes.-
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vote rebornjust incase my vote will break a tie. I will respond with a more indepth post probally tonight-
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A lot of it was the claim thing which has since been resolved (talk about conincidence). There also was the shooting down of the xtoxm wagon while agreeing with the points xtoxm was raising. These were widly unpopular points though and he only commented on them while keeping his random vote out.reborn537 wrote:"Everything gobo did". I want examples of what my predecessor did to earn your ire.
Its because I view it as a crap case. The votes you still havent done a great job explaining which votes were specifically anti-town and why. For the claim thing, I would of acted the exact same way if put in the position again, I dont see how its considered scummy.OMGUS? Utterly ridiculous saying that to me considering how hard you went after me when I dared to make a case on you.
Why was my vote on xtoxm anti-town? Why was my vote on GW anti-town? I still like how you are reacting to me voting to try and shut down character claim though. I know quotes, and gobos first two posts contained quotes from the same person, I viewed it as a softclaim and didnt want it to start and epidemic of character claims. I still dont know why thats anti-town.I HAVE explained why your wishy-washy votes are anti-town. Every time you vote you are distracting the town with your poorly considered arguments. I haven't seen one good wagon started by you yet. You went after Gob because of his "claim of Cleveland" which was a direct deception by you. I'm glad that's been put to bed now, by the way.
Well I still held the claim as a scumtell, and given that it was not a claim now, I still hold it as a very poor move on his part. Part of the reason I am voting you though is that I feel the case you have presented against me is really weak, and you have not done a good job explaining parts of it, and other parts really dont hold water. It also sounds like part of your case against me is given my actions to gobo which is you so is OMGUS there. This case is based on the fact that you are pushing craplogic on me.I did not use false evidence to call your vote on me OMGUS. Your vote was on goborage because of the so-called claim thing, and after that had been destroyed you had no reason to have your vote on me. Therefore, my only logical conclusion was that you were voting for me because I went for you. I was not going for you for that reason, I read through twice before I made my first posts and everything I did was carefully considered. I decided my top suspects were yourself and dalt.
And you still havent explained which of my votes were scummy and why, just that I vote too much.You were metaing yourself. And I explained about it. And people agreed.
Misinterpreting my post that much has to be deliberate. I said the way you were posting was hard to follow, not that bolding responses makes you scum. Also said anything, not anyone. Nice to see you are reading my posts closely. That paragraph which I think you read the first sentance and then stopped at, was the fact that you are basing your case off the wiki saying that any tell in there should be constantly applied.The whole dragon conflict pisses you off more than anything else... wow. Dude, you've just admitted that the main reason you're voting for me is that I didn't format my post in your preferred way. Well, I'm sorry, but I wasn't talking to you. I was talking to STD, and it's a tried and tested method of responding to large posts. This isn't even a point against me, it's something you don't like about the way I use the internet. Unless you think I used a deliberately poor format to confuse and distract the town?
I am not sure how this is pro-town either, just because I am pushing you doesnt mean that you get to ignore my points or tell me to stop talking. Also hazing the town? Seriously, how do you haze the town? I think you are scum, I make a case, you flame me. That isnt the way things work.I was not yelling at STD. I was answering his points with my own opinions. Just stop hazing the town, seriously, because people read what you write, and if you're town please stop as you're doing more harm than good.
Lets make this offical, answer like thisAnd, once again, I did explain. Just because you disagree that doesn't make me scum.
1)Llamas vote for gobo was scummy because -
2)Llamas vote for xtoxm was scummy because -
3)Llamas vote for GW was scummy because -
4)Llama unvoting was scummy because -
5)Llamas vote for gobo/you was scummy because --
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I have been starting to think this isnt true given that if we assume 3 scum and a vig out there, this is possibly a D1 lylo given my role and that we have lovers.Xtoxm wrote:On this particularly, well, I know i'm town obv, and from what i've seen of BG, i'm really thinking she's town too.
Think, D1 we lynch town
N1 - Scum kills town lovers
N1 - Vig kills random town
We enter D2 with 8 players, 3 scum and we cant lynch.
The town-scum lover possibility here is much higher then I think people are giving it credit for, and both of the lovers are scummy compared to most other players.-
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As a mod im partial to vigs so I always end up playing under the assumption one exists. What I did setup there though seems to be lylo caused by worst case luck and roles, it is highly unlikely, which makes me think either there is no vig or that we have scum-lover.-
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unvote vote xtoxm
You know, I really think that we have scum in this pairing. Especially after what reborn claimed. Town lovers + voteless + role that spawns NK seems like bastard modding that can end N1 if everything happens in the worse possible way.
I know this may seem out of left field but I really think there is scum in that pairing. I may of asked this before but - Are you confirmed town to eachother?-
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You know what I am going to get wagoned here so its probally time for me to claim as well. I amPeter: Mod-Bastardized JOAT.
Unlike the normal JOAT I have no controll over what ability I use, just my target. When I use a specific action instead, I lose my role but can vote. This night I can confirm IG with a specific action.-
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Ever think there was a reason I specifically avoided answering all the questions where people kept asking me if my restriction was ever able to be alleviated? I saw no good way to respond to those without giving away why my vote would suddenly count.reborn537 wrote:Lynch all Liars. You've already full-claimed.-
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Because I can confirm my role and his role at the same time. My role flavor also makes me think that he is just fakeclaiming an ability as scum. Reborns role fits the character well, my flavor fits my character well, IGs really doesnt line up with Cleveland though.Xtoxm wrote:And why the hell would you target IG?-
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I no longer have any night actions available to me if I use a specific action, but my vote will count in the day. Essentially it turns me into vanilla townie. It took a few PMs to the mod to explain it to me.elvis_knits wrote:I'm not sure I understand what you wrote about your ability though. "When I use a specific action instead, I lose my role but can vote." You lose your role??
I can confirm any action or lack of that he takes, if he targets someone, I will know. If he doesnt target I will know. His flavor doesnt fit to me like I have said, but being able to confirm a power role is the best thing that can happen.Also, you say you can confirm IG. Don't you mean you can confirm or convict? Are you expecting him to be innocent? Do youknowhe's innocent?-
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I have more then three random actions, which is why im a little concerned at using them since I have no clue what will come from them. Taking my known actions into account though, if we lynch scum today, I am going to random action someone in the grey area for the town. I might block a mafia sumbitting kill, vig off scum or something else beneficial.Xtoxm wrote:It can do...With a random JOAT I think it's to just target who you think is scum. 3 of the options you wanna use on scum. If I had the role I think i'd be trying to get the kill out...Probably not the best way to use a random JOAT lol.
I think withholding what I know I can do untill we are threatened with lylo is a good thing though, although now given two other claims I am trying to calculate the best way to go about confirming two roles without damaging a roled player as when reborn claimed my first plan got scrapped.-
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we have seen how well that worked... inventor, lover, lover, bodyguard(?)... I think this may just be the most off ive been in a game here.
@reborn - What do you think of flavor putting IG at bodyguard Cleveland? Given my roles PM flavor it just doesnt seem right to me.-
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@reborn - Town Drunk, at least I think thats what you are asking-
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Now how is getting someone you think is a powerrole nightkilled a good move?Inspector Godot wrote:
I'm hoping by now someone can at least see why I've been speculating and leading the scum towards Llama.RestFermata wrote:Yeah, I always kind of assumed that Llama might have some other role besides voteless vanilla town. I just didn't want to pull an IG and step right out and say it.
I still am not too comfortable with IGs claim.
@IG - Does "Dang it all" have to do with your role as BG?-
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Why not shift the bandwagon or just no lynch then? We have a lot of stuff to go on so far for D2, the claim looks believable, so we are going to just kill someone we seem to think is town?Xtoxm wrote:And I have no idea who to think scum is now...Pretty certain she's real cos that's not a clever thing to do if you're a scum that's about to die.
I guess we should lynch her anyway.-
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LlamaFluff Jack of All Trades
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Why not no lynch? Seriously. I normally am against it on principle as well but after IGs last post I think the flavor fits a little better so I am more inclined to believe it. Reborn fits pretty well. I dont see mafia claiming vanilla when there is as much as we have seen so far to base a claim off of. I know we cant lynch the lovers today.
I think no lynch is the best move.-
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You saying "lets lynch the vanilla" is scummy too. Do you think EK is scum or town?reborn537 wrote:
No lynch is a scummy suggestion! The scum get a free kill. And we are not going to shift the wagon because then another power role could be revealed and again and again until we've mass-claimed.LlamaFluff wrote:
Why not shift the bandwagon or just no lynch then? We have a lot of stuff to go on so far for D2, the claim looks believable, so we are going to just kill someone we seem to think is town?Xtoxm wrote:And I have no idea who to think scum is now...Pretty certain she's real cos that's not a clever thing to do if you're a scum that's about to die.
I guess we should lynch her anyway.
What EK is doing is null. It could be town giving up or scum not giving up. We have to lynch her before more power roles are revealed. Worst comes to worst we lynch a vanilla. Most games start that way.
unvoteto make a point
vote no lynch-
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I know that I am dabbling in WIFOM, but I really cant see scum at L-2 claiming VT one day untill deadline when so many wagons have been tapped out. With that claim EK looks more confirmed then most of the power roles to me.Xtoxm wrote:A VT claim should not be lynched if they are confirmed town. I know EK isn't, but that's what it sounds like you are saying.
My other reason for wanting a no lynch is I can use a random action on a player at night and not have to worry about it being lylo due to no vote from me, we cant lose four players in a night I think-
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Ok lets say we lynch EK - What do you expect her to flip?reborn537 wrote:I think EK might be scum! We are not going to no lynch! Stop voting for no lynch before I go back to voting for you LF!