DBZ: Cell Games [Over]

[mastina]

Hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii, I am a bit of a geeky nerd and am glad to be here. <3

[mastina]

(I feel like I'll probably not regret using one of my posts as an introduction since I usually post in walls anyway. I just need to remember the geriatric mechanic, and then I'll do fine in the fight. I feel like this particular mechanic has infinite potential for me to unlock. <3)

VOTE: bell
obvscum

VOTE: Firebringer

Town.

VOTE: Battle Mage

Town?

VOTE: Firebringer

VOTE: firebringer

Woah this started early.

Scum?

VOTE: Dunnstral

Scum. </3

bring me some fire

Obligatory scumread-even-though-he's-probably-actually town.

Tune in next week for our dramatic conclusion!

Town-but-I-admit-bias-to-loving-Flea's-personality-and-playstyle-in-saying-this-so-strongly. <3

[mastina]

Actually, I feel like revising that into a readslist which is different from the above.

Dunnstral
Gamma Emerald
Flea The Magician

Battle Mage
Firebringer

kookiemonster (JohnnyFarrar and Noraa)
Titus
Sugar Cain (Momrangal and Nero Cain)
Guillotina

Oil Tycoons (Syryana and Nachomamma8)

Bell
Superbowl9

Town, town-but-with-the-caveat-that-I-can't-read-these-players, guessing-town, poe-scum, actual-scumread.
(I don't actually have the read strength to locktown anyone yet or lockscum anyone yet, give me time to read the rest of the pages, this is almost exclusively from page 1.)

[mastina]

So it sounds like we have voting phase where we select the two scummiest players and then they duke it out in the arena and with the power of friendship one wins while the other loses?

Oh my god, Fire taking the spirit of Mr. Satan and running with it is just the best. FB is obv town. Even if their role pm is red. <3 <3 <3.

Okay, nevermind, Bell's town. (I suppose this is one reason to not tag me in too soon. As good as a backup to the town I can be, I can make conclusions too rapidly. But I trust I'll have the guidance of my tutors on the future pages. <3)

I've played with 6 players here before so this is gonna be a monumental game!
VOTE: Superbowl i wanted you to be scum last time but you crashed my dream. Are you scum in this one?

Fortunately, I have a substitute for Bell on the readslist since my initial guess on Guillotina was, in my current opinion, wrong.

And I already think kookiemonster is town, too.

VOTE: Guillotina
I was gonna say "I'm waiting for a votecount before casting a vote", but then I realized I was being a moron.

[mastina]

i also have the strong feeling Noraa is town here. meat reasons

Yup, Noraa is already locktown levels of town to me.

Bell is

almost

there, too. I'm PRETTY sure that this is Bell well out of his scumrange, but I'm not absolutely sure.

But I am pretty damn sure that this isn't Noraa as scum, soooooo.

kookiemonster (JohnnyFarrar and Noraa)

Bell
Dunnstral
Gamma Emerald
Flea The Magician

Battle Mage
Firebringer

Titus
Sugar Cain (Momrangal and Nero Cain)

Oil Tycoons (Syryana and Nachomamma8)

Guillotina
Superbowl9

Locktown, town, town-but-with-the-caveat-that-I-can't-read-them-worth-shit, guessing-town, guessing-poe-scum, scumread.

Butyeah, I realize it does take me quite a lot of time to power up and get to the levels needed to eliminate the scum. You can place a lot of faith in me eventually tho. <3

[mastina]

Don't have any real reasons here, he's just not tickling me the way I expected him to.

Funnily enough, this is exactly my thoughts on you; your posts aren't, so to speak, tickling me the way I expected them to.

And it is a heartbreaking betrayal. </3

For the record; I'm pretty willing to locktown Dunn here from what I've seen, so he joins kookiemonster in the promotion.

And, for "meh, why the fuck not?" reasons, I'll risk that same promotion on Bell.

Also, for the record: Nero's posting (can tell it's him not Momrangal), while not out of his scumrange, does look town, sooooo...

kookiemonster (JohnnyFarrar and Noraa)
Dunnstral
Bell

Gamma Emerald
Flea The Magician

Sugar Cain (Momrangal and Nero Cain)

Battle Mage
Firebringer

Titus

Oil Tycoons (Syryana and Nachomamma8)

Guillotina
Superbowl9

Locktown, town, townlean, town-but-with-the-caveat-that-I-can't-read-them-worth-shit, guessing-town, guessing-poe-scum, scumread.

[mastina]

Dunnstral - Can be town
Battle Mage - Town
Oil Tycoons (Syryana and Nachomamma8) - Bad Vibes but it's RVS practically, so I want to see if it's just my breakfast leading to my gut here.
Gamma Emerald - No memory of his posts
Bell - Town
Superbowl9 - Waited with baited breath
Firebringer - Weak town, needs to scumclaim
kookiemonster (JohnnyFarrar and Noraa) - Need more posts to sort
Titus - Dead and Alive town
Flea The Magician - Reluctant to call a read here yet
Sugar Cain (Momrangal and Nero Cain) - Weak town
Guillotina - Conflicted about their Bell push. Confident town or scum desperate for content

Hiii Titus, glad to see I guessed right on you. <3
(Titus is town.)

I promise you that, in spite of my predecessor, that I will UNIVERSALLY be obvtown eventually. (Not conftown, presumably, but obvtown with time. I promise I've got your back here and quite like most of your reads; let's eliminate the scum. <3

kookiemonster (JohnnyFarrar and Noraa)
Dunnstral
Bell
Titus

Gamma Emerald
Flea The Magician

Sugar Cain (Momrangal and Nero Cain)

Battle Mage
Firebringer

Oil Tycoons (Syryana and Nachomamma8)

Guillotina
Superbowl9

Locktown, town, townlean, town-but-with-the-caveat-that-I-can't-read-them-worth-shit, guessing-poe-scum, scumread.

[mastina]

Look people like to follow my life. I'm an exciting fellow

We're a goddamned superhero, never let anyone tell you differently, brass.

anime is dumb

VOTE: Sugar Cain This needs to be TURBO LIMMED

Bad take which makes me feel better about my superbowl suspicion.

I think Nero can be helpful as town if he's active, and easier to find as scum. Basically the earlier Nero is active the better for us so giving him an early push is positive

While this is true enough that active Nero is town Nero, pushing him doesn't really spur activity, and this game's mechanics are a slight nerf to Nero's natural style, yet Nero's content here does look to be heading in the right direction.

Btw as I was writing this, Among Us Mafia was declared over, so I expect people'll probably be going over that game.

[mastina]

VOTE: Battle Mage
I'll battle today, on condition Flea is up too.

I'd prefer not since I think you're both town.

there's only 2 spaces in the fighting arena, so if oil is in, i cant be

I'd be down for Oil v superbowl, Oil v Guillotina, or superbowl v Guillotina honestly.

VOTE: Oil

I think BM v Flea is TvT, please don't fight each other. We should only be fighting those that are evil, not fighting our friends. <3

[mastina]

Its official. I hate that reads list.

Then you should be more than happy to sheep me as I am voting to eliminate both Oil and Guillotina.

For the record, I do think that this is Nero's towngame. He looks like town doing his best in spite of the posting restriction, rather than scum using the posting restriction to be lackluster.

So:

kookiemonster (JohnnyFarrar and Noraa)
Dunnstral
Bell
Titus
Sugar Cain (Momrangal and Nero Cain)

Gamma Emerald
Flea The Magician

Battle Mage
Firebringer

Oil Tycoons (Syryana and Nachomamma8)

Guillotina
Superbowl9

Locktown, town, town-but-with-the-caveat-that-I-can't-read-them-worth-shit, guessing-poe-scum, scumread.

[mastina]

the old folks here can't keep up with you (myself)

Meanwhile I am a youngster here, at least in this arc.

im dat obvtown?!

As a matter of fact: yes.

Its official. I hate that reads list.

Then you should be more than happy to sheep me as I am voting to eliminate both Oil and Guillotina.

For the record, I do think that this is Nero's towngame. He looks like town doing his best in spite of the posting restriction, rather than scum using the posting restriction to be lackluster.

So:

kookiemonster (JohnnyFarrar and Noraa)
Dunnstral
Bell
Titus
Sugar Cain (Momrangal and Nero Cain)

Gamma Emerald
Flea The Magician

Battle Mage
Firebringer

Oil Tycoons (Syryana and Nachomamma8)

Guillotina
Superbowl9

Locktown, town, town-but-with-the-caveat-that-I-can't-read-them-worth-shit, guessing-poe-scum, scumread.

Am now caught up, so I'd like to say:
This is very obviously Noraa as town--painfully obviously so.
This looks like both Dunnstral's and Bell's towngames. Dunnstral is giving off identical energy to PookyVFL, whereas Bell's doing the polar opposite of what he did in both that game and Among Us. Both of them are pretty damn solidly in their town metas.

Titus's reads here aligning with my own is an INCREDIBLY good sign. Her entrance is rather strong and, overall, seems to be precisely what she should be giving if she is town here; there's nothing that looks scum at all.

While I'm worried about Momrangal's lack of content, Nero's posting looks like his normal town self slightly nerfed by the posting mechanic, rather than scum using it as an excuse to avoid being his normal self.

Gamma is a weaker townread off of Gut.
Flea is also a townread off of gut, and me thinking that Flea v BM is townVtown, and Flea feeling different to me than fae were in Among Us.

Battle Mage and Firebringer both look town to me, but I admit that I can't read either of them worth a damn.

Oil Tycoons, I'd expect to have a townread on Nacho, but I just...don't. I can maybe maybe maybe see them as town genuinely suspicious of BM, but it doesn't feel sincere. It feels like scum making content to look town rather than content that actually comes from town.

Guillotina radiates obvscum to me but I admit a lack of familiarity.
superbowl9's pushes have been bad and sb9 normally radiates town--but that town energy is utterly absent from this game where he feels stunted, stilted, forced, and fake. It doesn't feel like even remotely the same sb9 as MBOS10.

[mastina]

because all your reads so far have been based off meta, so tell me why do you scum read me?

Because I use meta to augment the evidence in the thread. Meta is a tool, not the end all be all of scumhunting.

And your posts look like scum, even without meta;

superbowl's posts look like scum, especially given meta.

I disagree with your Bell and Gamma placements, see my read list to see why.

Oh I read your piece of shit readslist but I was at the time too polite to call it a piece of shit readslist, but if you insist on bringing it up...

Null

Dunnstral

: Strikes me for the kind of player that has a defined blueprint of how an alignment should act. I didn't like it that he tried to discredit me and paint me as scum for asking players why they townread me as if pocketing didn't exist.

Scum

Gamma

: Based on past games, Gamma is the kind of player that is very vocal about his thoughts and reads. In essence, Gamma is like Flea minus the satirical side when he is town. When he's randed scum he tends to shy down and avoid me as much as possible. In this game he is doing that and he also added an early game townread as a bonus.

Bell

: He seemed like he was looking for a reason to buddy up/pocket kookiemonster. When I question him about it and I asked him why he townread Noraa (which he didn't, it was a trap), he didn't deny the townread and confirmed he was townreading the hydra based on a hunch, a hunch caused by something that can be easily fabricated such as exasperation "with how much they rolled scum and that they didn't roll scum here". Maybe he knows their alignment.

Superbowl

: I think I already explained it in previous posts. This SB feels like he's been trying to be appeasing to me. Maybe he learnt the lesson and he is trying a different approach but there is something that tell me he is scum.

Sugar Cain

: Nero Cain is a scum hunter by nature, I haven't seen that here. I've yet to see his scum game but I have seen his town game and so far that town!Nero is not here.

ManWithNoName slot

: He used DK videos in Xenoblade to look carefree and meme-ing. I still remember "oh hell yah, I get to use my DK vids and not get sus for using them" in our discord scum chat from that game.

While your townreads are fine and most of your null reads are okay and the superbowl scumread is fine,
1: You had three townreads. This game has ten town.
2: You have five scumreads and four null reads. This game has three scum.
3: Your read on Dunnstral being null is terrible because this is Dunnstral's towngame rather obviously.
4: I have seen Bell TWICE in TWO recent scumgames, and can tell that this isn't the Bell of either of them, and that this is the same Bell I first saw in MBOS 10.
5: Your thoughts on Gamma do not actually match his total play this game; he is overall doing exactly what you'd say he'd do if he was town, which I agree with as being town from him.
6: You were scumreading my slot when I know it to be a town one.
7: Nero Cain absolutely has been scumhunting here and I have seen it. Speaking of which...

And Nero, let's talk about Nero, granted I've only played one game with him

You're saying this to the player who has probably played more games with Nero Cain than literally any other scummer onsite. I genuinely think that I've been in ~60% of his games, and I've played with him in literally dozens of games, upwards of 30-50 games with him.

I am seeing the exact markers I look for when Nero is town, in this game.
Are they present in the amount I would like? No. But are they present and growing stronger with time? Yes.

You townread her, why?

Because I literally just saw the best scumgame Noraa's had in her career and she wasn't as town there as she is here; here she radiates townness through to the very core, whereas in that game she was struggling hard. Having seen Noraa as scum playing her best, I can tell that this is outside of her scumrange altogether.

[mastina]

You scum read me because...

While all of the reasons you list contribute to the scumread, due to them all originating from the readslist that I think comes from scum, I don't recall saying any of the reasons I mentioned there were why I was scumreading you. You asked me to point out why your readslist was bad--I did so. I didn't say that the readslist was why I am scumreading you.

I've been scumreading you since 29--29 may be an rvs post, but it looked like scum-rvs rather than town-rvs.

33 felt forced.

47 felt too forced and tryhardy.

VOTE: Guillotina

Yah i can see that you are really looking to work with them. I second the hydra, how exactly you townread them this early?
VOTE: Bell

This is also doubly wrong because both Bell and Noraa were both at that point already transparently town. Bell less so, sure, but on his way up. It's forced and a read that is the polar opposite of what should've been a read on those slots.

For someone allegedly specializing in earlygame interactions, you seem to have run afoul of them yourself: I am also someone who specializes in earlygame reactions and yours look like scum failing to blend into the town rather than town acting naturally.

55 gave me gut-scum vibes as well.

While asking why someone is townreading you is valid, the way it was done in 72 looks like scum faking the towntell rather than genuinely being town doing the towntell.

76/82/first half of 140 felt scum-scum.

On a side-note I agree with Titus's assessment of you being scum desperate for content, and 170 felt like a poor handling of that point, because...you...didn't handle the point, you brushed it off and pretended it wasn't there pretty much.

179 was a poor response to Titus's pressure.

213 has a mild scumtell in it, but is far more egregious from a slot that 'tries not to use meta much', apparently (per your earlier stated stance).

451 felt forced and fake. 453 as well.

That, aside from the problematic readslist which I broke down the issues I had with it.

Suffice to say: I do have fairly good reason to suspect you.
Is this reasoning actually accurate? I don't have meta on you so I don't know. But lacking meta to tell if it's just-you things or if it's genuinely suspicious, I am going to assume that what I see as suspicious is actually genuinely suspicious.

[mastina]

Mastina why did u join this game with me in it?

Because of what amounts to poor bookkeeping from MariaR:

/in DBZ if there's room (I feel obligated to since I was in the original Mortal Kombat game)
/in Draft if there's room

Because MariaR's latest mod post at the time listed it incorrectly as not full. I didn't notice your name in the playerlist, I just saw that it was apparently in signups and posted an /in to it...except the game had already begun and was in need of replacement. The mod told me that the game had already started and asked me if I'd like to replace in and I said yes, not even knowing there was a slot open at the time and not having actually checked the playerlist.

The game interested me because it's not often a relatively obscure large theme that I was a part of has its game mechanic used and it uses a geriatric-inspired game mechanic when my playstyle is fairly geriatric-friendly. It had not one, but two, things that made me want to sign up for it, but I didn't notice you were a player in it already--not until I was already posting. That was genuinely the first time I noticed you were in the game.

Hi Mastina!

Hi Bell! Fun fact; in spite of us being in four games together, this is, technically, probably the first one we're actually aligned in!

Mastina, can you give me one game Day for old times' sake?

I owe you that much, yes.
UNVOTE: Oil Tycoons

Mastina why am I obvtown?

Because you're enjoying this game, plain and simple--you hate, you loathe, scum, especially having high-efforted in multiple consecutive scumgames (and losing them, to boot). But here, you're not hating the game even remotely. And that's not you masking your hate, that's not you pretending that you're having fun when you're actually not. You are radiating an aura of having fun, your happiness is on full display with you clearly having a blast in a way that I genuinely don't think you can fake. I

saw

the Noraa as scum trying to powertown. In that game you may have looked town but you didn't look like you were having fun, because you weren't due to being scum. But here, you ARE having fun.

Did you intent to piss me off by calling my readlist piece of shit? This is a legit question.

Oh, nah, I was actually saying that in a fairly tongue in cheek sort of way. I could use a bunch of other words there. Crappy readslist, readslist is crap, shitty readslist, readslist is trash, trashy readslist, readslist is a piece of junk, junky readslist, readslist was bad, readslist was poor, and a dozen more. In the moment tho, it felt most apt/tongue-in-cheek to just go with piece of shit, because it just felt like the delivery that'd be most humorous while conveying my point.

I do apologize for that, tho--piece of shit is, as far as ways to call readslists bad, kinda the 'nuclear' option of sort and while in the moment it felt the most apt word to use to convey my humor, in hindsight I realize it was something that was too harsh/drastic a tone shift. (The tone shift was part of what the humor was meant to be, but it was, in hindsight, too extreme.) My bad on that wording.

Sentiment of the readslist being incredibly poor remains tho.

No excuse, this is my first time playing with you and I already looked you up for meta.

[mastina]

Firebringer is basically what I would consider scum by poe if all my SRs start flipping town(unlikely but I also can't sort for shit so idk)

Speaking of which: I am having a crisis of confidence.

I still think Dunnstral is town; I still think Noraa is town; I still think, to a lesser extent, Bell is town; I am having, overwhelming, paranoia on my other townreads, in part due to doubts about their play and also in part due to having sudden overwhelming doubt on two of the scumreads, on Oil Tycoons and Guillotina.

I'll do this tho:
VOTE: superbowl9
As one of the few reads I'm not doubting right now.

I'll probably do a breakdown of all the players in the game I'm having a reads doubt on when I have the energy for it--right now, I don't have the energy for it, but I feel like doing so will help me better place people in terms of figuring out reads.

[mastina]

7 pages aint gettin read anyone got a summary?

This is a slot y'all are refusing to eliminate for some reason.

(I do promise that, circa tomorrow, when I'm in a better headspace, I'll be typing up my thoughts on each slot--I'm just not in the headspace to make it tonight.)

[mastina]

b) we're way off base

This is more or less my fear, plan on explaining it once I'm caught up.

[mastina]

Are you actually calling for a lim on me for not reading on V/LA?

Sort-of, yes.

[mastina]

Mastina help me case Guillo. You are far better at casing and convincing people than me. Plsssssssssss *puppy eyes*

There's a problem with that:
Casing people requires me to actually be sure they're scum, and while I know people tend to think that when I latch onto a scumread, I don't let it go...I actually DO end up sometimes actually getting such strong doubts that I can't make the strong push on them anymore.

In this game particularly, I'm struggling to get a reasonable solve or even a consistent townbloc.

To wit,

Spoiler: compare these reads I have zero-to-minimal doubt on...

kookiemonster (JohnnyFarrar and Noraa)
^This is Noraa's towngame through and through. Their everything is town. This is well beyond Noraa's scumrange because she can't perform this well and even Johnny is looking town in the few posts he makes. Noraa is actively scumhunting here rather than just blanket-OMGUSing and she's actively trying to reach out to others and convince them that she's right and is actually sorting people with good reasoning and actual basis behind her pushes and her reads. It is a level beyond what she's ever shown as scum and as I said previously, she radiates a town aura of being happy, when she loathes scum and is thoroughly burned out from multiple repeated scum PMs in a short duration.

Dunnstral
^While Dunnstral is slightly less active than my preference, I still think that this is solidly Dunn as town. He is one of the only slots I have no doubt on. This is a, reasonably active, Dunnstral who is pretty solvey in his posts and pushes and is being his normal reasonable town self.

Bell
^While I am not as intimately familiar with Bell as I'd prefer to be, this is a fairly active Bell who seems to have full confidence in his townness (a la MBOS10 (contrast superbowl9 who does not give that same energy from that game at all). He is being reasonably active and his contributions are reasonably good. Having seen him as scum twice, I can say this looks like neither of his scumgames.

...To those I DO have doubt on:

Battle Mage
^While my thought is that Battle Mage's fights are town, even TvT, I know I can't read him, and there is paranoia that his pushes come from scum. I can see the conviction behind them being from him as town, but I also know he will make posts that have conviction as scum. And, someone needs to be scum, so it could be him. But, my instinct does say town because the pushes he is making, though not all good, all seem to be sincere which makes me think more town than scum.

Oil Tycoons (Syryana and Nachomamma8)
^While I am far from alone in thinking the content of the hydra sucks ass, there are a couple of things making me doubt that they're scum. Notably,
1: I believe that I'm basically the closest thing the slot has to an ally? Is literally everyone suspicious of them? It certainly seems that way; I may be remembering incorrectly, but I don't remember so much as a single slot defending them and a ton of slots attacking them. Meaning, either they're town or scum are willing to bus them.
2: the push with their intervention in BM v Flea felt incredibly out of place if they're scum--it doesn't make sense with any combination of Flea/BM's alignments with Oil Tycoons. Not scum-BM, not scum-Flea, not town-both, and certainly not scum-both. That intervention does nothing for Oil Tycoons in any of those combinations.
3: The reachouts made to slots like me. I realize it's not impossible for scum to make reachouts like that, but the reachouts instantly made me doubt my scumread there and think town.

Gamma Emerald
^While I liked Gamma's early content and to some extent still like it now, he's far from locktown and my defense of him from Guillotina was exaggerated. Tho I genuinely did see the things in him I said I did, I'm not as sure about them as I appeared; there was doubt in my mind, and

someone

needs to be scum. So he's a candidate for that.

Firebringer
^I can say that I've liked everything Firebringer has done content-wise, but I can't read him worth shit. I'll say that I do like his chosen gimmick for this game tho; it does put a smile on my face and is genuinely entertaining and amusing. (The abrasiveness towards others, less so, but I cannot blame him for it.)

Titus
^I really, really liked Titus's content, but while everything she's said has resonated with me, one thing is keeping her from being in the town group: by gut, something tonally feels 'off' about Titus. The things she's said are good! Her reads are solid, her reasoning is great, and her stances are good. She's being fairly reasonable and doing things that do look town. But gut-wise, something tonally seems off about her, and I can't place it beyond a feeling of something there being artificial.

Flea The Magician
^Flea is a slot that I townread because faer content does look town to me. I've liked faer tone, I've liked faer reasoning, I've liked faer pushes, I'm liking everything fae is putting forward. But I admit there is a lack of familiarity, and yes, I do see the similarities between this game and Among Us that Battle Mage is pushing fae for. However, it also seems subtly different. Are the differences just due to being a different scumgame? Possible, but overall I do lean towards the slight differences being due to Flea being town. It's not a locktown read tho.

Sugar Cain (Momrangal and Nero Cain)
^When Nero posted, I mentally noted in my list of Nero-tells that this looked like Nero as town. But every time I reviewed prior Nero games, I came to doubt it. Yet when reading his iso here, I came to see it again. Overall, Nero's less active here than he should be; Nero's content seems to be slightly lacking in some things that could indicate scum; Momrangal while present now was largely absent, in a way similar to the previous Sugar Cain scumgame where Mom was largely absent and Nero did most of the posting.

However, while some aspects of Nero's posting seems flat in the way typical of his scumgame, other aspects of his play still resonate with me as town. The indignance I'd expect from Nero as town, though more subdued, is still present. So while I am slightly conflicted, I still think that, overall, this is Sugar Cain as town, because I still think that I am seeing the right things for Nero being town.

Guillotina
^Guillotina's a slot I was strongly scumreading, by both gut and also through their lackluster content on multiple levels. Their posting felt forced and faked, and I hated how their readslist had inverse proportion to reads as it should--it had three town when it should've had three scum, and five scum when it should've had five town. I disliked the reads and the reasoning within at the time and Guillotina's response to pressure is terrible.

Furthermore, Guillotina's shown multiple inconsistencies, such as "I try not to use meta" when using a bunch of meta, and saying that their game is constantly being changed up, while resembling a past game of theirs. There's numerous such inconsistencies throughout their iso and I can see exactly why they look like scum from these trends.

So why the doubt?

For a start--while Guillotina's hyper-aggro towards me when pointing this out wasn't town, Guillotina did raise a good point: Guillotina did in fact risk getting mod-replaced/modkilled in that one area with the, what's the best term to use? Loophole abuse? Angleshooting? Guillotina genuinely went out of their way to get mod clarification on the rules, in a way that scum did have no reason to do and I can see town having reason to.

More than that, the way Guillotina handled my slot seemed genuine as well, where Guillotina by the end was reaching out to me, and the way Guillotina was handling things seemed hugely town. Guillotina's content since then has also had huge shades of townness, from the general handling of the game and stances taken that feel sincere, genuine, and based at least a little in fact.

Plus, in hindsight: I don't actually disagree with Guillotina's readslist as much as I thought,

and

, I am, currently, ironically: in a state where my own reads due to being in disarray, are actually similar to the very thing I attacked Guillotina for, in not having enough town, being too incoherent, being too uncohesive, etc. So I can not hold that against Guillotina.

(Not included: Superbowl9, as a read that I see as unambiguously scum)

I'll try to put these thoughts into a readslist next post.

[mastina]

Spoiler: spoiled for readability

kookiemonster (JohnnyFarrar and Noraa)
^This is Noraa's towngame through and through. Their everything is town. This is well beyond Noraa's scumrange because she can't perform this well and even Johnny is looking town in the few posts he makes. Noraa is actively scumhunting here rather than just blanket-OMGUSing and she's actively trying to reach out to others and convince them that she's right and is actually sorting people with good reasoning and actual basis behind her pushes and her reads. It is a level beyond what she's ever shown as scum and as I said previously, she radiates a town aura of being happy, when she loathes scum and is thoroughly burned out from multiple repeated scum PMs in a short duration.

Dunnstral
^While Dunnstral is slightly less active than my preference, I still think that this is solidly Dunn as town. He is one of the only slots I have no doubt on. This is a, reasonably active, Dunnstral who is pretty solvey in his posts and pushes and is being his normal reasonable town self.

Bell
^While I am not as intimately familiar with Bell as I'd prefer to be, this is a fairly active Bell who seems to have full confidence in his townness (a la MBOS10 (contrast superbowl9 who does not give that same energy from that game at all). He is being reasonably active and his contributions are reasonably good. Having seen him as scum twice, I can say this looks like neither of his scumgames.

Battle Mage
^While my thought is that Battle Mage's fights are town, even TvT, I know I can't read him, and there is paranoia that his pushes come from scum. I can see the conviction behind them being from him as town, but I also know he will make posts that have conviction as scum. And, someone needs to be scum, so it could be him. But, my instinct does say town because the pushes he is making, though not all good, all seem to be sincere which makes me think more town than scum.

Oil Tycoons (Syryana and Nachomamma8)
^While I am far from alone in thinking the content of the hydra sucks ass, there are a couple of things making me doubt that they're scum. Notably,
1: I believe that I'm basically the closest thing the slot has to an ally? Is literally everyone suspicious of them? It certainly seems that way; I may be remembering incorrectly, but I don't remember so much as a single slot defending them and a ton of slots attacking them. Meaning, either they're town or scum are willing to bus them.
2: the push with their intervention in BM v Flea felt incredibly out of place if they're scum--it doesn't make sense with any combination of Flea/BM's alignments with Oil Tycoons. Not scum-BM, not scum-Flea, not town-both, and certainly not scum-both. That intervention does nothing for Oil Tycoons in any of those combinations.
3: The reachouts made to slots like me. I realize it's not impossible for scum to make reachouts like that, but the reachouts instantly made me doubt my scumread there and think town.

Gamma Emerald
^While I liked Gamma's early content and to some extent still like it now, he's far from locktown and my defense of him from Guillotina was exaggerated. Tho I genuinely did see the things in him I said I did, I'm not as sure about them as I appeared; there was doubt in my mind, and

someone

needs to be scum. So he's a candidate for that.

Firebringer
^I can say that I've liked everything Firebringer has done content-wise, but I can't read him worth shit. I'll say that I do like his chosen gimmick for this game tho; it does put a smile on my face and is genuinely entertaining and amusing. (The abrasiveness towards others, less so, but I cannot blame him for it.)

Titus
^I really, really liked Titus's content, but while everything she's said has resonated with me, one thing is keeping her from being in the town group: by gut, something tonally feels 'off' about Titus. The things she's said are good! Her reads are solid, her reasoning is great, and her stances are good. She's being fairly reasonable and doing things that do look town. But gut-wise, something tonally seems off about her, and I can't place it beyond a feeling of something there being artificial.

Flea The Magician
^Flea is a slot that I townread because faer content does look town to me. I've liked faer tone, I've liked faer reasoning, I've liked faer pushes, I'm liking everything fae is putting forward. But I admit there is a lack of familiarity, and yes, I do see the similarities between this game and Among Us that Battle Mage is pushing fae for. However, it also seems subtly different. Are the differences just due to being a different scumgame? Possible, but overall I do lean towards the slight differences being due to Flea being town. It's not a locktown read tho.

Sugar Cain (Momrangal and Nero Cain)
^When Nero posted, I mentally noted in my list of Nero-tells that this looked like Nero as town. But every time I reviewed prior Nero games, I came to doubt it. Yet when reading his iso here, I came to see it again. Overall, Nero's less active here than he should be; Nero's content seems to be slightly lacking in some things that could indicate scum; Momrangal while present now was largely absent, in a way similar to the previous Sugar Cain scumgame where Mom was largely absent and Nero did most of the posting.

However, while some aspects of Nero's posting seems flat in the way typical of his scumgame, other aspects of his play still resonate with me as town. The indignance I'd expect from Nero as town, though more subdued, is still present. So while I am slightly conflicted, I still think that, overall, this is Sugar Cain as town, because I still think that I am seeing the right things for Nero being town.

Guillotina
^Guillotina's a slot I was strongly scumreading, by both gut and also through their lackluster content on multiple levels. Their posting felt forced and faked, and I hated how their readslist had inverse proportion to reads as it should--it had three town when it should've had three scum, and five scum when it should've had five town. I disliked the reads and the reasoning within at the time and Guillotina's response to pressure is terrible.

Furthermore, Guillotina's shown multiple inconsistencies, such as "I try not to use meta" when using a bunch of meta, and saying that their game is constantly being changed up, while resembling a past game of theirs. There's numerous such inconsistencies throughout their iso and I can see exactly why they look like scum from these trends.

So why the doubt?

For a start--while Guillotina's hyper-aggro towards me when pointing this out wasn't town, Guillotina did raise a good point: Guillotina did in fact risk getting mod-replaced/modkilled in that one area with the, what's the best term to use? Loophole abuse? Angleshooting? Guillotina genuinely went out of their way to get mod clarification on the rules, in a way that scum did have no reason to do and I can see town having reason to.

More than that, the way Guillotina handled my slot seemed genuine as well, where Guillotina by the end was reaching out to me, and the way Guillotina was handling things seemed hugely town. Guillotina's content since then has also had huge shades of townness, from the general handling of the game and stances taken that feel sincere, genuine, and based at least a little in fact.

Plus, in hindsight: I don't actually disagree with Guillotina's readslist as much as I thought,

and

, I am, currently, ironically: in a state where my own reads due to being in disarray, are actually similar to the very thing I attacked Guillotina for, in not having enough town, being too incoherent, being too uncohesive, etc. So I can not hold that against Guillotina.

(Not included: Superbowl9, as a read that I see as unambiguously scum)

Loosely:
kookiemonster
Dunnstral
Bell

Sugar Cain
Battle Mage
Flea the Magician
Oil Tycoons

Firebringer (no clue where to place him honestly)
Guillotina
Titus
Gamma Emerald

(huge gap)

superbowl9

Loosely:
locktown, town-with-reservations, look-town-but-SOMEONE-needs-to-be-scum-and-this-pool-is-best-guess, scum.

I realize it's not good enough, so want people to engage with my reasons here.

[mastina]

okay looking at mastina's reads more, there's a LOT of waffling/hedging on her reads

Yes and I've been quite explicit about that and saying why it's not good enough. I

want

better, more solidified, reads.

I've been very very forward about how I'm struggling to get them.

There's only four reads I've gotten solid: three townreads, one scumread (suberbowl).
I very much am unhappy about how unsolidified the rest are and the whole point of typing out the reasons for the reads above was to try and sort them and to get others to engage me on them so that I could get better ones.

[mastina]

But gut-wise, something tonally seems off about her, and I can't place it beyond a feeling of something there being artificial.

Because I am hiding something. I'm either confirmed town or "dead" in one of four ways by day 3. One of which is highly unlikely.

Okay, I'll buy that.

And while I'd prefer more engagement with others like me, I do like your reachout to Battle Mage.

So, welcome back to the townbloc, Titus!

kookiemonster
Titus
Dunnstral
Bell

Sugar Cain
Battle Mage
Flea the Magician
Oil Tycoons

Firebringer (no clue where to place him honestly)
Guillotina
Gamma Emerald

(huge gap)

superbowl9

[mastina]

VOTE: Oil
I dunno why people SR this but practically everyone has so I'm okay sheeping

(This looks an awful lot like a scum vote, just saying.)

[mastina]

what if mastina is one of the evil people.

Oh believe me I do understand that, without the usual conviction I have, I am lacking the mastina fire which makes me quickly and immediately obviously town. The confidence people have in me that I'll obvtown myself isn't entirely misplaced, tho.

Right now, in this particular game, getting a rudimentary solve is difficult at this moment.

But, 1: difficult does not equal impossible, and 2: even were it, that will not remain the case the entire game. We're going to get a better direction sooner rather than later and once we do, you better believe it that the fire will be there.

In the mean time, I'm kinda debating whether I want to case superbowl right now--I genuinely do think he's scum, but the debate is whether I'm more likely to force him to nightkill me if I case him or if I'm more likely to force him to nightkill me if I don't case him but threaten with the possibility of doing so.

(I don't think that I can get enough support for a superbowl9 elimination today given how many slots are giving him a write-off, most loudly/notably/strongly, Nancy. I genuinely think that a superbowl9 case can and will sway some people into suspecting him whereas before they were writing him off, but I genuinely don't think that even with the case there will be enough support. Which is why my debate is more towards which will make superbowl9 sweat more; is it more threatening to make the case and continue to push it, or to threaten to make the case yet not make it today?)

[mastina]

So far i feel nothing. I think thats just cause im not engaging with her much.

To be fair: I'm also trying quite hard to NOT piss you off--I don't want you to replace out because I replaced in, and I don't want you to be miserable staying in this game specifically due to me.

So not annoying you is a success on my part.

[mastina]

This fight so looks like a personality conflict. Not an alignment conflict

I do agree for what it's worth, Flea v BM does seem TvT.

Gamma sniping @ me from a safe distance is pretty bad.

how am I sniping from a safe distance

I'm not Nero but I agree with his sentiments so I can explain:
You're in zero danger of being eliminated.
Sugar Cain is in some danger, which your sniping contributes to, but even if Sugar Cain is safe today due to the likes of Flea/Oil/BM/etc. going in instead of them, your potshots at Nero make it much easier to spread the seed of doubt allowing them to be nominated for elimination on D2.

You also made similar potshots at me, too.

Do these things make you lockscum? No, but I definitely see where Nero's coming from and you are a legit scum candidate through the principle of "while everyone looks town,

someone

needs to be scum" of the player who looks the least town of the players who look town.

[mastina]

Hi im back and still not reading

I think im gonna pull a titus and play from like a few pages back each day

And people think this is town and not scum getting away with literally fuckall while the active/loud/noisy players who're either entirely town or mostly town, actively eat and devour each other live.

I'll never get why y'all don't get that this is just superbowl9 as scum letting the town fight town.

[mastina]

Why do i never get what i want

You mean being town?

[mastina]

Is oil really that scummy? Like whats the case

This is scum defending the probable town mislynch for the cheap towncred rather than town who actively believes the town is on the wrong track, by the way.

[mastina]

Is oil really that scummy? Like whats the case

When Oil eats scum, prepare to eat lead. I am not fighting Noraa to lim you.

<3

[mastina]

Lets talk about Oil a little bit. The reaching out bit confuses me a touch. Like it seems a bit :/

I've played with both Nacho and Syryana extensively, Nacho in particular (who I'm fairly sure was the one making said reachout posts). I really should explain that, but I honestly don't know how to explain it as something that makes me think town. It's just...years and years of experience knowing Nacho and what he does, which I realize he can fake as scum but which usually comes from town. The request to give some time is just...something that speaks to being town.

What about Dunn is town for you? My experience tells me lurker dunn is a scummy dunn.

Sure, but Dunn this game isn't lurker-Dunn. Dunn is less active than like 10 players this game but he's not lurking. Do an iso of him and that's apparent enough.

What about superbowl is scummy?

Well to keep it short and with the disclaimer that this is not my case (since I still kinda sorta wanna hold the threat of a case as an incentive to kill me), in short:
superbowl9 as town radiates town, does lots of town things, acts as a reasonable player who unites the town, is what I call a medium in being a player who bridges gaps in the town, who even when fluffposting is still contributing, and when giving reasons they tend to be fairly on the nose with them and produces good reads.

superbowl9 in this game is none of that, with the inactivity not being adequately explained by a V/LA. (V/LA was never an issue towards the above traits previously, yet in this game the V/LA is acting as an excuse.)

Which, again. Is not the case but at least alludes to it.

[mastina]

Mastina imagine im on a beach sipping a pina colada

Sounds like a supervillain move, to be honest.

[mastina]

mastina, I left you some presents.

I saw. I can't promise I'm 100% interpreting them correctly, but I saw them and am hopefully right in my interpretation.

[mastina]

Anything in particular you want me to read nora or mastina?

The game.

[mastina]

Oil Dunn Superbowl9 Gamma...who is with me?

Half.

I think this is still Dunn as town. Oil I have reservations on.

The other two, tho, yes.

[mastina]

commenting from the bleachers is still sitting on the sidelines imo

For what it's worth:
I

want

to come in, hard-defend BM, Flea, and even Oil, try to dismantle the wagons/pressure on them and hard-push superbowl and maybe Gamma as the elimination candidates right now.

But right now I can't manage it, so yes, I am explicitly sitting on the sidelines. I normally have an unabashed lack of fear, a confidence oozing conviction which masks any uncertainty--but right now, the uncertainty is on full display and I hate it. I just, for whatever reason...can't get the confidence going. While there is some fear of being wrong contributing to that lack of strong push...there's also something holding me back beyond fear and I genuinely don't know what. Fear isn't the cause, it's just the icing on top of the cake of my insecurities being on display.

Hilariously enough.

I feel like, in a sense. I am actually basically doing a perfect roleplay of my character, whose debilitating lack of confidence was one of their largest issues throughout the entire story of dbz honestly. To put it in perspective, normally in mafia games I'd very much be a Goku kind of girl--fearless, confident in my abilities, absolutely sure that I can win, etc. But right now I have the timidness of my character and it fucking sucks. I like being Gokuesque, I hate it when I'm this weak.

My

hope

is that, come D2, if I am still alive, that the fire will be lit in me, that I'll ignite, that I'll power up and have my full potential unlocked and unleashed. (Also appropriate for my character, mind you.) Because for D1, I don't know how to solve it. I'm too passive and I don't know why, and without knowing why I don't know how to fix it.

[mastina]

Explain Dunn please.

People seem to forget that this game has been open for only five days--Dunnstral has posted 13 times, a rate of almost 3 posts per rl day. Does that sound like Dunnstral is lurking to you?

It doesn't to me. Dunnstral looks inactive only by the scope of this game in spite of its geriatric-inspired nature having a bunch of hyper-posters: BM, Flea, you, me, FB, Noraa, and to lesser extents, Nero and Bell.

There's at least 8 players who are the type of players that in a game will usually out-post Dunnstral by a landslide. (You can maybe add people like Nero there, too.)

They're doing so.

That doesn't mean that Dunnstral's lurking, just due to others being more active.

If you look at his posts in-context rather than in iso (tho honestly even in iso they're not bad), his posts are not bad and seem to be standard Dunnstral-town procedure. He's got reasonably good takes, stances, and established reads, given the game is only 5 days old.

I would prefer more posts from him; I would prefer more stances from him.

But I am not dissatisfied with the amount he has posted, given the time the game has been open and the number of hyperposters in this game thread. His activity is fundamentally one which will be dwarfed by the others. So him having a fraction of the posts of others does not make me think he's scum. It makes me think others are just posting more than he has. Which...is par for the course. Because Dunnstral is almost never a top poster in a game.

[mastina]

(For the record Dunn's posting frequency here is similar to this game. He was town there. Yes, I pushed him as scum for good reason, but I believe him to be town here, right now at least.)

[mastina]

VOTE: Gamma Emerald
To secure Gamma over Flea as I prefer Gamma over Flea.

[mastina]

Noraa, whose flip would have the most equity (meaning they'd solve the greatest number of slots)?

Honestly, probably one of {Oil, Flea, Battle Mage}.

Problem is, I don't want to flip any of those three.

[mastina]

What would their flips sort?

Well, that depends.
If there were a scumflip in that trio, it'd be pretty compelling evidence that the other two are locktown.
But if my theory is correct that all three are town? Far less--
It'd tell us that the fight which I believe is all-town has at least one town and would force those suspecting the slot flipped to be held accountable, to look at them and see if they reevaluate honestly and use the flip to solve or if their push was scum-incentivized.

Which is to say: if I am wrong and there's a scumflip in there, we get a boatload of clears and a ton of places to look for suspects;
If I am right and it's all-town, we get almost nothing, other than evidence of this possibly being the case.

So why did I say those three give the most info?

Because a townflip or a scumflip on anyone else gives us virtually nothing--even if Gamma/superbowl flipped scum, we don't get any townclears/scumspects from it, and we get even less from townflips from them.

So from an information point of view, Oil/Flea/BM give more info.

But I'd rather flip scum than flip for info.
If my options were to flip town that gave info versus flip town that didn't give info, I'd take the former over the latter, but I'd rather flip a scum which gives no info than a town that gives info.

[mastina]

Mastina, when was the last time nacho pulled wool over your eye?

Depends. A

hydra

with Nacho in it? (Where it was, explicitly, the other head that I incorrectly townread.) I honestly legit think the last time was tales of you, where I incorrectly read bork as town but when Nacho took over I identified him as scum.

Misread Nacho himself when he was scum and I was town, with me convinced incorrectly that he was town?

...Have I ever?

I legit can't find a game of it, searching through Nacho's game history. Across micros, minis, normals, mini themes, and large themes. I genuinely don't think I have? I've spent the last 30 minutes searching Nacho's game history looking for games that I was in which he was in. In all of them, either:
-We were scum together,
-I was scum with him as town,
-We were both town,
-Or I correctly read him as scum when I was town.

I genuinely don't think I've ever misread Nacho before when he was scum, thinking he was town.

That having been said.
It's been literal years since I last played with Nacho. I think it was like 2018 when we last played? In that range, if not older. I am very much not familiar with him in his current form, especially not on a hydra. So who knows, this could be the first game where I misread his scum self as being town. He's a damn good scum player, and I am incredibly rusty at reading him to the point where I place zero faith in my ability to read him correctly. I genuinely think the last time I saw him as scum was circa 2015--literally 5, going on 6, years ago. To say my meta on him is outdated would be an understatement, so I wouldn't trust me to soulread Nacho here.

But I will say that, yes, I do genuinely think he's town here. He's a good player, he's probably not out of his scumrange, but I still townread him regardless.

[mastina]

Also:
VOTE: superbowl9

As memey as it'd be to send Firebringer into the arena, I'd prefer scum candidate vs scum candidate in the arena, when Firebringer isn't one to me.

[mastina]

I think her most recent post is strange, off or mildly difficult to be believable. Spending 30 minutes to check if they really ever have misread Nacho seems like a tremendous waste of time.

And yet this is the search I went through. I skipped Undertale C as I did not play it. I checked This Undertale Open to see if it was the one I played; it was not. I checked to see what Nacho's alignment was in this game where I was town; he was town. I skipped Baton Pass and Destiny III as I was pretty sure I didn't play them. I spent quite a bit of time searching this game since Nacho posted in it and I was a player in it but I didn't remember him being in it (he wasn't, he posted in postgame). I checked this game to confirm I was a reviewer, not a player, for it. I needed to reconfirm he was town in this game. I skipped UPickinFreezer as I was pretty sure that was the Democracy hydra game. I checked out this game, not sure if I was a player or not (I was not). I needed to check this game as well. I skipped Gay Mafia 3 as I knew I was not a player there. I skipped Mystery at King's Landing as I knew that was the game I was a mafia traitor in. I may or may not have checked out DBZ abridged and double day, or I may have skipped them, don't remember. I checked out Sakura Wars. I skipped Star Wars Rogue One as I was scum in it, but spent a lot of time looking at laundry to see if I was a player there (I wasn't). I skipped real folk blues (wasn't in it) and camn's revenge (I knew we were both town). I probably skipped Mystic Mafia thinking I wasn't in it. I checked out this game, to see if I was a player in it. And this game. And this game. And this game. And this game. Then needed to check this one to confirm I reviewed rather than played it. And then I checked this game. I also checked this game. And this one. And this one. And while I knew I played, I needed to confirm Nacho was town in this game. I checked out this one. And this one. And this one. I checked to see if I was a player here, too.
Pretty sure I skipped Shaman, Original Mafia, and Wedding Invitational as I'm fairly sure I was in none of them. I checked out this game, and this game. This one, too. I skipped Blitz 9 as I knew I wasn't in it, but had to check Tarot UPick II to confirm that Oil Tycoons was town that game. I skipped Twilight Zone, knowing I wasn't in it, and Butterfly Mafia (same), but needed to confirm I wasn't in Mega Popcorn Mafia. I also needed to check out this game. And make sure I wasn't a player in this one. While the game was multiball, I wasted a lot of time in FFVII looking for who Nacho could be in that game. I skipped Inorganic, knowing I was scum there; I then took a little time to confirm Nacho was town here. I also needed to see if I was in Space Dandy. And Zodiac II. And Genesis. And Matriarchy. And Choose Your Side. I skipped Disney villain as I knew I was scum there. I skipped Nightingdale as I knew I didn't play that. I needed to confirm I wasn't a player in this game. And to confirm Nacho was town in this game. I skipped Over the Garden and Grey Flag as I was pretty sure I didn't play in them, but needed to check on Anarchy in San Francisco. Then I needed to confirm he was town in Wing Commander. And check out Russian Roulette. I also needed to confirm he was town in Signs and Void. I skipped Uncouth and Curse of the Werewolves, fairly certain I wasn't in them, but wasn't sure here and needed to check. Ditto here, here, and here, all of which I needed to check to make sure I wasn't in them. Then I had to spend a significant amount of time searching for his alignment in Sabotage Mafia as it isn't listed in the OP and isoing AP didn't give me the answer and it took time to locate the backup mod and from there track down the alignment of his slot.
I briefly had a derp moment when looking at this game, confused as to, "wait I know I didn't play in this game, why is it in the search history?" before I remembered I was searching Nacho's game history, not my own game history. So that took more time than it should have. I had to check his alignment in Ikaruga. I skipped notscience get the girl as I was fairly sure I didn't play it; ditto, Rock Operafia. But I did check out Zodiac. I skipped Robin Williams, but I had to spent extensive time on MoSfair invitational because Nacho was scum there and I was town, so I needed to see if I ever had him as anything other than scum. I had to read the entirety of my iso there to be sure the answer was in fact that I always read him as scum without ever townreading him. I don't remember which was which, but I skipped one of these two games and checked out the other. I skipped Event Card, but needed to check to make sure I wasn't a player here. I skipped the rest of the games on the first page, except for too many heads (which took me a long time to remember I was scum in) and Pick Your Poison, where I needed to track down Nacho's alignment as it wasn't listed in the OP.

And having searched the entire first page of his game history, with me having passed Tales of You, I called it quits there on the search.

Which, yes, took me 30 minutes.

And typing this? Took me an hour. I woke up at 5 pm, logged in here, and have been typing this since then, with it now being 6 pm.

Still doubt I wasted that half hour on it?

Because this is pretty damn good proof that I did not.

I mean, I am lurking, but the notion that me lurking means I'm scum is incorrect

...And why are you lurking?

[mastina]

I'm getting a sense of FB wanting to be in the ring as indicative as something beyond alignment reasons

I mean if Firebringer actually had a role where he got benefit from being in the arena and winning the duel (which is a role I can see in the game), I feel like he'd just outright have said so, since the town would be willing to play along and believe him.

Iirc she has a complete inability to play that was as scum

I feel obligated to point out that I can play this way as scum, and that playing this way as scum is easier than my full-aggro mode, too--but I will add the caveat that 'easier' does not mean easy, because faking wishy-washiness in reads and being convincingly fencesitty on reads, is almost just as hard as faking a strong scumread in a slot I know the alignment of. Because faking wishy-washiness on a slot I know the alignment of requires me to fake nonexistent doubts. So it's difficult to pull off as scum, but it's not impossible for scumastina to do. (Whereas hyper-aggro is, arguably, impossible for scumastina to maintain.)

Town!Mastina can’t legitimately be hesitant about her reads?

I can be but it's usually after they are conclusively proven wrong--i.e. provably-conftown claiming when I suspected them, and/or a slot flipping during the day/night.

Hesitance in my reads prior to that is a rarity because I fucking hate it and actively try to not be hesitant in them. Even right now I am trying to not hesitate on things like my Dunn-town callout, because my overwhelming urge to not be hesitant is stronger than my doubts in my confidence on that slot. I'd rather be sure and wrong than doubt and be right. But this is shaping up to be a game where I call everyone town at some point and am right on all of the town and wrong on the scum, while at different points calling everyone scum at some point in the game and am wrong on all of the town and right on the scum. And that sort of attack/defend everyone game is the type of game that I fucking loathe because I really fucking hate being wishy-washy. So I am trying to force the confidence now even tho it is somewhat lacking.

What scum-team is willing to bus Nacho, especially this early on?

Technically? Firebringer would; Battle Mage might; Titus

could

; you possibly would; it's possible Noraa might, too.

The thing is, I don't think any of those names are scum and even were they, I don't think they'd be bussing.

[mastina]

Still doubt I wasted that half hour on it?

Are you challenging doubt on how much time you spent, or the idea you wasted your time?

Doubt on time spent.

When I say I spent that much time on it, I damn well spent that much time on it. Bell doubted that I spent half an hour doing what I claimed I did.

So I spent literally an hour retracing my steps and briefly showing my homework to prove how I did indeed spend that half hour doing exactly what I said I did.

I was searching through Nacho's game history looking for any instance of me having misread him, and that took half an hour for me to eventually, on page 1/4, give up on the effort. (Notably, I also left out Newbies as I'm pretty sure the only newbie with both me and Nacho in it was the game we met in where we were both scum.) Having gone back to the Tales of You period, and then some even further behind that game, I thought I had done a thorough enough job at confirming my suspicion of not having misread him when he was scum and I was town.

Anyone with an ADHD brain like mine can pretty much confirm that this sort of hyper-fixation on a task once the idea enters your mind to check, is something that happens all the time.

[mastina]

kookiemonster
Titus
Dunnstral
Bell

Sugar Cain
Battle Mage
Flea the Magician
Oil Tycoons

Firebringer (no clue where to place him honestly)
Guillotina
Gamma Emerald

(huge gap)

superbowl9

While not much has changed since here, I feel like this is probably more apt:
kookiemonster
Titus
Bell
Sugar Cain

Oil Tycoons

Dunnstral
Flea the Magician
Battle Mage

Firebringer (no clue where to place him honestly)
Guillotina
Gamma Emerald

(huge gap)

superbowl9

Locktown, strongly leaning town, weakly leaning town, no-clue, scum.

[mastina]

superbowl9

Not really seeing this tbh. Convince me?

Okay so I went to do an iso of superbowl9 convinced I could do precisely that.

Except as it turned out, his iso is actually better than I thought.

Instead of me having a real case like I thought I did.

It actually turns out I don't really have a case, beyond, "this game probably has three scum in it and

someone

needs to be scum, and he's among the least town in the game".

[mastina]

The one game I need to be superconfident about my scumread and nope...

Mood.

This is literally a game where everyone has reason to be town. I can towncase every slot here.

But someone, probably three someones, needs to be scum so three of the players I can townread would, by necessity, not be town.

So when it comes down to it, it's the players that I am least-townreading that I want to nominate, because I don't really have scumreads here.

[mastina]

kookiemonster
Titus
Bell
Sugar Cain

Oil Tycoons

Dunnstral
Flea the Magician
Battle Mage

Firebringer (no clue where to place him honestly)
Guillotina
Gamma Emerald
superbowl9

This is where I'm at right now. I realize I only have four locktown, half as much as ideal, but in a game where everyone has reasons to be town, you by necessity need to have doubts on the reasons for those players to be town since there's, presumably, three who are not.

And I only have four players who I am confident are not, beyond any shadow of a doubt.

This is beyond that I think Noraa is capable of doing as scum.
I believe I know what Titus is doing and it is highly town--furthermore, she and I have a lot of read synergy, reasons overlap, and even mood overlap, with her and I both being in pretty similar mindsets here. All good signs pointing to her being town. I don't think it'd be possible for me to townread her more.
Bell is towning it up here in a way I fundamentally don't think he's capable of doing as scum. He's showing an active investment in solving, in reasoning, in logic, his pushes are from good spots, he's not doing nothing, he's radiating town energy.
Sugar Cain the more I see, the more sure I am that this is them as town.

Oil Tycoons I am not as sure as being town, but I am still liking what I am seeing more and more. The takes aren't impossible to come from scum, but the take just...looks like town. Not locktown town, but still town.

Yet that's only 5 town; I should have at least 8, ideally 10.

Dunnstral I quite liked as town, his thoughts were good, his content was good, but the drop in content is incredibly worrying.
Flea I love as town, but, 1: I admit bias here in liking Flea naturally, and 2: I'm not too familiar with Flea, having only seen faer scumgame once, so I can't tell what's faer scumplay and what's faer personality.

Battle Mage's pushes have felt like normal Battle Mage to me, with him raising surprisingly good points and I can see him genuinely thinking the things he does, and his Flea case does look TvT, but I know I can't read BM and if I were forced to choose between Flea/Oil/BM as having a scum in the three, I'd say BM was the most likely just because as much as he looks town, he doesn't look

as

town.

Firebringer's entertaining, but I don't know how to read him. He looks town, but I have no clue if he is or not.
Guillotina, the more I see, the more I like, but I have an utter unfamiliarity with the slot and I have no true frame of reference. I'm thinking Guillotina probably deserves to be higher, because I do see where Guillotina is coming from by and large and think it looks like coming from a town place more and more.

Gamma looked town, but doesn't radiate town in the way other slots do.
superbowl9, I was convinced was scum, but when doing an iso his iso was better than I thought...but while looking more town, his iso doesn't radiate town in the same way as other slots do.

So Gamma and superbowl9 are my best guesses for two of the scum in this game, and I'm hoping that on future days we can better hone in and refine on which of the townie-looking slots are actually town.

[mastina]

Firebringer's entertaining, but I don't know how to read him. He looks town, but I have no clue if he is or not.

i feel like the first part of this sentence should spook me.

I've made it well-known that I've long-since outgrown any distaste for you that I had. I'm aware it isn't mutual tho.

Dunnstral I quite liked as town, his thoughts were good, his content was good, but the drop in content is incredibly worrying.

Noraa has hydra slipped as much as Dunnstral has posted. What makes you think town?

Less and less with time honestly.

What makes you think town?

To be more clear, what content and thoughts specifically felt good to you?

Oh, that's easier. I liked his meme entrance; I liked the timing of the vote on Guillotina; the elaboration in 104 resonated with me; I liked the progression of 421 through 423 (evaluating the Flea v BM fight, siding with one initially then the other, with the elaboration on Guillotina); 946 is a post that I also largely agree with.

[mastina]

FB is town

So's Flea.

I legit am thinking Gamma-Dunn-superbowl might be the scumteam here.

superbowl > Gamma > Dunn most scum to least scum tho.

[mastina]

Dunnstral I quite liked as town, his thoughts were good, his content was good, but the drop in content is incredibly worrying.

This read feels pretty fake
VOTE: Mastina

That said, this does look like a scum vote.

[mastina]

Actually you know what that splits the vote 2v2 for mastina and BM and we have like 11 hours left.
VOTE: mastina
Flea, you get one person to vote BM and I'm with ya

This is also a vote that Nacho should never have made tho.

[mastina]

Oh i guess it reset after the first one got in?
VOTE: mastina you haven’t read this post yet so you’re scum until you do

But this?

Yeah this is definitely lockscum levels of scum voting.

[mastina]

Also, I would be extremely happy with a Conf town Mastina *hints at titus*

Conftowning me is a mistake given I've told you that my role will make me obvtown, possibly conftown, without me being conftowned. (I'm surprised people haven't realized my role, I've been incredibly unsubtle about it.)

[mastina]

Mastina says she's had a hard time emulating her town game lately as scum (or maybe I'm misrepresenting that position). Maybe this game is an example of that self trend.

Oh I absolutely do have difficulty emulating my towngame lately as scum, but this game aint that because this is still a version of my towngame. It's a version that I loathe and despise because I fucking hate not being confident, but especially with my role I knew it'd be a temporary thing and come D2 I was expecting to be back to my normal self.

[mastina]

mastina (5): Bell, Dunnstral, Oil Tycoons, superbowl9, Battle Mage

The only votes on here which aren't scummy-as-fuck are Bell and Battle Mage by the way.

I realize that in {Dunnstral, Oil Tycoons, superbowl9} there's probably at least one town since those three are not the scumteam.
Heck, it's possible--albeit not probable--that 2/3 of the names are town there.
But not a chance in hell all three names there are town.

And as I've said.

superbowl9 > Gamma Emerald > Dunnstral > Oil Tycoons in chances for being scum here.

[mastina]

why are people voting mastina

It should really send fucking red flags to y'all just how atrociously bad the mastina wagon is when

Firebringer

, of all people, FIREBRINGER, the dude who would love any excuse to get me out of the game, is the one asking why there's a wagon on me.

[mastina]

I am a desperado. I dayvig someone. If they're scum, they die. If they're town, I die and the day ends. Since I TR both targets, I am just going to shoot mastina because I feel she has the higher town equity and we agree on a lot of reads.

Titus you should've read my role breadcrumbs (I was not subtle) to realize why conftowning me is a waste.

[mastina]

As we are in twilight it would be unwise for me to point them out now but I will do so on D2, regardless of whether it's in this thread or the dead thread.
Suffice to say: they were very much there and y'all are pretty blind.

[mastina]

9/3/1 used to be very common, I don't understand why people thought there should only be two scum?

Because there's good reason it's "used to be" rather than "still is".

12p setups with 3 scum used to be common; they're not anymore for good reason, to give an example.
Godfathers used to be common, they're so much not anymore that they're not allowed in Normals, to give another.