Mini 2231: Radio Buzz | Game Over!

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Sup nerds and Gamma

Shiki is Rousseau's? Rousseau's signal brought us down in the first place imo

VOTE: Rousseau

[ssbm_Kyouko]

P sure Locke already scumslipped. I'm town and my pm doesnt mention the word malefactors at all. Assuming that's scum's flavor name at least.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I know what malefactor means, but it seems implied that the players wrote those messages

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Maybe we'll be able to tell once the NPCs call in tonight

Pedit: I think they were given a prompt, like "introduce yourselves as though you're trying to get in touch with a plane that just crashed"

The "static" messages look mod-designed, but the first 5 don't I think

[ssbm_Kyouko]

P sure Locke already scumslipped. I'm town and my pm doesnt mention the word malefactors at all. Assuming that's scum's flavor name at least.

Uh i actually think this post comes from scum more often than not, esp. if malefactors are actually scum's flavor

You think that I with a red PM know that the word malefactors is not in the green PMs?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I know what malefactor means, but it seems implied that the players wrote those messages

i think they are simply templated the way future messages from those players will be; they seem far too narrative there to have been written by the players

also do you think it is important for us to sort the callers?

For some reason in pedit I thought the also was addressed at Gamma. Yes I think it's important to sort them as one of them knows who scum are.

Pedit: Oh didnt see the sample, should've checked for one

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I mean its certainly not in my role pm and the word didnt stand out to eme when i read the flavor

I think its significantly more likey that scum (who know that's their name) would notice that in the flavor

good point

VOTE: Kyouko

Do either of you think it's likely scum would point it out?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

^last one for Cephrir as well since he's voting now too

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: skitter

@Pooky, they might not be. If they are, and the callers wrote those posts, I think Locke is the scum caller

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Oh, *please* explain that

You didn't answer my question, ceph and pooky did

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Also getting townpings from gamma, forgot to say that

Same

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Oh, *please* explain that

You didn't answer my question, ceph and pooky did

Oh i misswd it was at me, thought it was at pooky and ceph

- dont think its particularly likely for scum to point it out, the key thing is that i think its significantly more likely for scum to even notice that in the first place
- why is it vote-worthy for me to have not responded

Vote-worthy because scum would look to pounce on me for this if they actually are malefactors. At first I was thinking this pointed to Pooky, as he was the second one to it (it will look scummy to have started this push if I ever flip), so sheeping it is something scum would want to do I think. I also think though that it's scummy as the person that started the push to not respond to the question, and I didnt want my vote on Rousseau anymore, as I'm TRing her a bit now.

I just think it's weird to read that one of the callers is scum and then not go back and analyze the callers' posts. I came into the game expecting from the description there would be anonymous messages that were sometimes pro-scum, sometimes pro-town. This is different so after I caught up I went back and read the caller messages again, to see if there was any hidden message for scum because immediately the scum caller reminds me of a traitor. I was expecting them to try to signal scum in some way, so I was specifically rereading for crumbs when I noticed it.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

the scum know who the scum caller is tho lol

They do? I thought only the other way around

Pedit: gonna go back and reread the setup, I thought that scum team didnt know the scum caller

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Possibilites for the 5th caller include "no alignment" (controlled by mod), a scum caller similar to a traitor that is unknown to the scumteam and scum caller, or town. Imo the verbiage, which seems carefully selected, rules them out as a scum that is known to the scumteam

[ssbm_Kyouko]

i mean malefactor is just a word, why would you think that's the scum role from reading that?

i have a town role pm and i didnt get that thought at all when i read the dialogue in the beginning

I thought the scum team didnt know the scum caller and wanted to check for traitor crumbs in the radio messages

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Vote-worthy because scum would look to pounce on me for this if they actually are malefactors. At first I was thinking this pointed to Pooky, as he was the second one to it (it will look scummy to have started this push if I ever flip), so sheeping it is something scum would want to do I think. I also think though that it's scummy as the person that started the push to not respond to the question, and I didnt want my vote on Rousseau anymore, as I'm TRing her a bit now.

I just think it's weird to read that one of the callers is scum and then not go back and analyze the callers' posts. I came into the game expecting from the description there would be anonymous messages that were sometimes pro-scum, sometimes pro-town. This is different so after I caught up I went back and read the caller messages again, to see if there was any hidden message for scum because immediately the scum caller reminds me of a traitor. I was expecting them to try to signal scum in some way, so I was specifically rereading for crumbs when I noticed it.

- i dont know if scum would call out your post there - i dont know id they *want* to call attention to the fact that they know scum flavor
- i dont understand the poooky bit: does scum sheep my push or not?
- if it will look scummy to make this push if you flip, why do I start it as scum?
- i missed the question, like i said. I dislike that you seen to be implying that i skipped answering on purpose
- i think the callers (esp. What they've posted thus far) are basically distraction, i dont think they're important to analyze much at all tbh. Even if we figure out which of them is scum just now, there's no player-relevant info in the messages yet, so there's not much we can actually do with it at this time
- ig reading it looking for a traitor could make sense but i'm still rather suspicious that you keyed in on the word 'malefactor', as i think it would stand out to scum more.

- Scum dont have to push me "because she knows the scum are malefactors", that would give away that they know the flavor when I have only speculated at it. All they have to do is push me for talking about it, or faking a townslip
- I thought, when I saw your push, that scum would sheep it. That's why I asked all 3 of you about why scum would post that, because town will sheep too. I wanted to coax a little bit out of you 3, especially Pooky, because he was just like "good point"
- If you start it but dont end it, and arent too involved, it could easily be forgotten that you started it later on. That could explain why you didnt vote with your push, or why you didnt answer my question in your next post, if that was intentional.
- if you're scum, I do think you skipped answering on purpose, but there's no way to prove it so I'm not really bringing it up anymore
- I think the discussion around the callers has been worthwhile. Whether the current caller messages themselves are significant, I dont know. But I do think the thread's kicked off regardless of how important the messages are at this point.
- I spotted it the second time through when I was actively looking for something. Up to you whether you believe that.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

i mean malefactor is just a word, why would you think that's the scum role from reading that?

i have a town role pm and i didnt get that thought at all when i read the dialogue in the beginning

I thought the scum team didnt know the scum caller and wanted to check for traitor crumbs in the radio messages

Also why would your first instinct in the game be to look for traitors in the messages as town? That also sounds like its coming from a scum mindset to me

Because I didnt read the setup correctly and thought the 1 caller that knows the identity of scum was not known by scum, like a traitor. I feel like in that situation the caller would want to signal scum so I wanted to look for that signal.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

@Mod is the conversation here an actual conversation between our newbstumps or some flavor you wrote up for fun?

That conversation was written by me for flavour before the game began.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

If Tetrina was invited to this game by MT from an irl playgroup, the radio callers may also be members of that group, btw.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Pooky, why is Gamma scum?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Because I didnt read the setup correctly and thought the 1 caller that knows the identity of scum was not known by scum, like a traitor. I feel like in that situation the caller would want to signal scum so I wanted to look for that signal.

eh ok, i guess that could make some amount of sense and is semi-plausible. and that's what you were thinking the first time you read the messages?

I was surprised they were actual people rather than mod-controlled anonymous messages. I just sort of read them and didnt think that much of them except that it was interesting that one was named Locke when we have Rousseau in the game. I thought the font thing tweetie did to show the static was cool, and after I saw the pronouns listed I scrolled back up to try to commit the pronouns to the avatars/usernames.

That's all I can remember thinking when reading it the first time

[ssbm_Kyouko]

If Tetrina was invited to this game by MT from an irl playgroup, the radio callers may also be members of that group, btw.

Does it matter?

I think it could be helpful either way Tetrina is aligned.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: skitter30

Does a scum!Skitter spend this much effort trying to build a case on town on day 1 of a phase when it's likely any wagon there is likely to break up?

I think skitter is probably town and this (and DGB's vote on skitter) are giving me alarm bells.

Feels like TMI, but if it is TMI, it seems like the intent is to make light of the wagon on skitter indirectly ("it's likely any wagon there is likely to break up"). I say it seems like TMI because Galron has been talking to me as though I'm null or scummy to this point, most of his posting is about how the callers are a distraction iirc. That makes me think he would see me as scummy for bringing the focus there. But he asks his hypothetical as though he knows I'm town. This doesn't align.

VOTE: Galron

It remains to be seen if this is WKing or just defending a buddy but I think Skitter has behaved well since voting me and since I voted her.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Because I didnt read the setup correctly and thought the 1 caller that knows the identity of scum was not known by scum, like a traitor. I feel like in that situation the caller would want to signal scum so I wanted to look for that signal.

eh ok, i guess that could make some amount of sense and is semi-plausible. and that's what you were thinking the first time you read the messages?

I was surprised they were actual people rather than mod-controlled anonymous messages. I just sort of read them and didnt think that much of them except that it was interesting that one was named Locke when we have Rousseau in the game. I thought the font thing tweetie did to show the static was cool, and after I saw the pronouns listed I scrolled back up to try to commit the pronouns to the avatars/usernames.

That's all I can remember thinking when reading it the first time

ok
so upon learning that there were scum in the messages you went back to see if you can identify one, is that right?
what was your thoguht process the second tiem around, if you don't mind?

Well I thought it was a scum caller that knew the scumteam, but was unknown to them, like a traitor, so I looked for anything to indicate that one of the callers was somehow informed or was trying to signal the scumteam. "3 malefactors" stood out because there are 3 scum, and I thought "hmm, I dont think I saw the name of the Mafia in my PM. The mafia would know the name of their faction though and maybe this is the signal. I also thought the helicopter could be scummy just because it indicated an action that may be coming up soon, but I thought malefactors was more plausibly the scummy message

[ssbm_Kyouko]

it kiiiiinda feels like you're digging in your heels and i don't get it

Do you think scumFinity does that here?

I've had the same inkling and it grows stronger the longer the skitter-infinty discussion goes on. It seems white-knighty, I'm kinda thinking a Galron, DGB, Infinity team rn. Possible theater between them and they're all sort of distanced by positioning differently around skitter and I.

Pedit: not sure if launch was a typo but if it was that word is recently banned, and if it wasn't you should probably use a word less similar like yeet

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Without warning, the radio buzzes alive..

                           

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~Ṃὅɲᾂṙƈḫ                    

I don't necessarily think this is scum indicative, but I have no idea how this is supposed to be helpful to town. It's even worse than fluff since we can't even attempt to try to read this.

was thinking that might be a mechanic or something caused by a scum ability

I was also thinking it had been obscured by another caller. It's also possible Monarch didn't have any comment to make, as the rules said

up to

5 NPCs would contact us daily. I think if we get a communication from less than 5 people in the future that doesn't have static (like a completely missing person), then it's safe to say the static didn't come from Monarch having nothing to say, rather, it was obscured, probably by a targeted ability, which is probably controlled by scum.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Werent we promised 5 callers? Moncarch's is the sixth so i assumed it was flavor

shutterbug had 2 messages, so we got 5 "calls" from 4 callers, and 1 static message from the 5th caller

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I like most of ydrasse's list, feels pretty close to my thoughts so far, at the very least it reinforces for me that she's town even if we're both wrong.

Mine goes:
Townread: Rousseau, Ydrasse
Townlean: Skitter, Cephrir,
Nulltown: Tetrina
Null: Gamma, Pooky, House
Nullscum: Roden, DGB
Scumlean: Galron
Scumread: Infinity

House truly null, Gamma and Pooky in null because they've both done things that are lightly towny and lightly scummy, and to me they feel balanced out.

Roden I expect to have heard more from by now, but it hasn't been long so this could fluctuate quickly.

Galron's reaction to being voted feels like unconcerned town to me, but this is easy to fake as scum. This lifts him out of the scumread tier to a scumlean for me.

In Infinity's discussion with skitter, I really felt like I was being white knighted at first. I didnt say anything because I wanted to see how long it would go on, and it seemed to me that any push on skitter there was heavily tied to defending me. I'm going to reread this and see what I think today though.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

House truly null, Gamma and Pooky in null because they've both done things that are lightly towny and lightly scummy, and to me they feel balanced out.

tbh I think Pooky is slightly towny rn

What do you think of this part of 308 re: Infinity's push on Skitter?

In Infinity's discussion with skitter, I really felt like I was being white knighted at first. I didnt say anything because I wanted to see how long it would go on, and it seemed to me that any push on skitter there was heavily tied to defending me. I'm going to reread this and see what I think today though.

I'm also curious though, as to why Pooky seems townie to you

[ssbm_Kyouko]

how do you distinguish between a white knight and just me townreading you

@ssbm

White knighting is used to counterattack skitter here. Essentially the same words could be used to TR me in a different context, where I'm not being pushed by skitter, and that's the distinction. It's because it's tied into your push on skitter who was pushing me at the time. You were using a defense of me in your push on skitter, rather than just explaining a TR on me. It's the context of the words that distinguishes the wk from the tr

VOTE: infinity I want to do this or DGB right now in the interest of consolidating a bit

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Stolen

[ssbm_Kyouko]

.

Mod is trying to get a pagetop, dont make it easy on her

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Ack my stolen pagetop has been deleted

[ssbm_Kyouko]

It has skitter, I want to consolidate with skitter or ydrasse, and both the players they're voting are my bottom 3 with Galron

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Okay why are DGB and galron in your bottom 3 reads?

It's already explained in my readslist.

Galron I think should have a different view of me based on his stance around the communications from the callers. He said they're a distraction and town should not abide a distraction taking hold of the thread

DGB's skitter vote bugged me as potentially opportunistic and there's also something that looks like theater going on between it and Galron

Infinity is white knighting me and also has what feel like forced interactions with galron.

The three of them are sort of positioned "around" skitter vs me, which could be distancing between Galron and DGB/Infinity on opposite sides.

Gamma what's your read on infinity now then if you're not

necessarily

going to reread her and skitter?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

DGB's skitter vote bugged me as potentially opportunistic and there's also something that looks like theater going on between it and Galron

this definitely a +partner equity vote for drippinggoofball/skitter

like drippinggoofball definitely knows that sort of early unexplained e-2 makes those on the wagon wary and diverts attention

I buy the +equity reasoning, but I TR skitter so if anything I think it's more likely muddying the waters than taking down a partner wagon.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Tetrina elevated to TR

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Gamma what's your read on infinity now then if you're not necessarily going to reread her and skitter?

@Gamma

[ssbm_Kyouko]

So what about her current play seems to be coming from town, but may actually be scummy play that you're not sure of yet?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Galron I think should have a different view of me based on his stance around the communications from the callers. He said they're a distraction and town should not abide a distraction taking hold of the thread

What is my view of you? I'm not even sure I've got a read on you yet, but I do have a view. I'll tell you about it after you tell me what you think it is.

I believe the initial communications were a distraction, yes, put there for color. Whether the subsequent ones are relevant, no idea yet.

I think you, as town, should be annoyed by me posting about the callers if you really think they are a distraction. I would expect that to color your read on me.

Pedit: nice job Galron, you've stopped tweetie

[ssbm_Kyouko]

The question is, will tweetie redelete the original "stolen" post to shift her post to pagetop?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

So what about her current play seems to be coming from town, but may actually be scummy play that you're not sure of yet?

This was for Gamma but got ninjad

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Also Galron, in 490, who are you about to sheep? What is "the call on cephrir" and who made it? It seems from context it's meant to be me but I'm leaning town on him

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Galron I think should have a different view of me based on his stance around the communications from the callers. He said they're a distraction and town should not abide a distraction taking hold of the thread

What is my view of you? I'm not even sure I've got a read on you yet, but I do have a view. I'll tell you about it after you tell me what you think it is.

I believe the initial communications were a distraction, yes, put there for color. Whether the subsequent ones are relevant, no idea yet.

I think you, as town, should be annoyed by me posting about the callers if you really think they are a distraction. I would expect that to color your read on me.

Pedit: nice job Galron, you've stopped tweetie

I'm not really concerned with you posting stuff that I think is a distraction. You don't think it is. It's a difference in viewpoint. If you were posting fluff, I'd take issue with that, but you're not.

*Should say posting about stuff that I think is a distraction.

Anyway, my view of you is that you're just being aggressive and maybe personalizing things a bit too much, but that's not AI, and I can't tell where you are on the spectrum yet.

Oh interesting to hear, I'm actually pretty tame in this game

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Skitter
Rousseau, Tetrina

Pooky, Cephrir

Gamma
Roden, DGB
Galron, Kyouko, House
Infinity

I like most of ydrasse's list, feels pretty close to my thoughts so far, at the very least it reinforces for me that she's town even if we're both wrong.

Mine goes:
Townread: Rousseau, Ydrasse

Townlean: Skitter, Cephrir,

Nulltown: Tetrina
Null: Gamma, Pooky, House
Nullscum: Roden, DGB
Scumlean: Galron
Scumread: Infinity

Care ti defend the Cephrir town reads? Maybe I'm wrong. Convince me.

I thought that the way ceph got on my wagon as the third voter looked towny and I haven't noticed anything scummy from them to discolor that feeling before or since then. It felt like town that was genuinely getting onto a wagon to apply pressure, whereas scum might feel more like they're getting on the wagon because it's easy.

That's why he's only at nulltown for me though, it's weak.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

hello. VOTE: gamma emerald

i think this is gonna be fun.

I mean its certainly not in my role pm and the word didnt stand out to eme when i read the flavor

I think its significantly more likey that scum (who know that's their name) would notice that in the flavor

good point

VOTE: Kyouko

also do you think it is important for us to sort the callers?

i think it's not super important unless they have roles. but it could provide something for us to talk about to generate content & might be useful for that reason

i can't tell if this is anything or not, but let's VOTE: kyouko

VOTE: ssbm

I got mixed up and thought he was the 3rd voter but I forgot that skitter didnt vote me.in 62. Here is cephrir's RVS, 62 is skitter's case on me, 64 is referring to 62, then Cephrir votes me (second) and then skitter votes me third, but I kinda consider her my first voter in memory/in spirit because she started it with 62.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

This is going to feed into paranoia that I'm buddies with Galron but I do town read him.

why?

DGB's skitter vote bugged me as potentially opportunistic and there's also something that looks like theater going on between it and Galron

Infinity is white knighting me and also has what feel like forced interactions with galron.

The three of them are sort of positioned "around" skitter vs me, which could be distancing between Galron and DGB/Infinity on opposite sides.

It seems like you're answering "why does this feed into paranoia that you are partners with Galron", but I think ydrasse is asking "why do you tr Galron" - maybe I'm wrong in that, but if she wasn't asking that, I'll ask it, because I'd like to know.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Been almost 5 minutes and nobody has taken this? Smh

[ssbm_Kyouko]

"why do you tr Galron"

His giddiness jumps right off the page, maybe he has a big fat PR

I don't know if I recognize the giddiness in rereading his ISO. maybe in recent posting it's not as flat as it started, but I wouldn't say giddy. Where does it jump out for you, in what posts?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Gamma's phone auto corrected "you two partners" to "you town partners"

[ssbm_Kyouko]

So what about her current play seems to be coming from town, but may actually be scummy play that you're not sure of yet?

This was for Gamma but got ninjad

@Gamma

For context, since we're further in the thread: "her" is Infinity

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Hmm

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I’m not sold on Cephrir!town but I don’t like the way you or Galron entered the thread after kyouko called you town partners with Infinity

I missed this. Where?

Okay why are DGB and galron in your bottom 3 reads?

It's already explained in my readslist.

Galron I think should have a different view of me based on his stance around the communications from the callers. He said they're a distraction and town should not abide a distraction taking hold of the thread

DGB's skitter vote bugged me as potentially opportunistic and there's also something that looks like theater going on between it and Galron

Infinity is white knighting me and also has what feel like forced interactions with galron.

The three of them are sort of positioned "around" skitter vs me, which could be distancing between Galron and DGB/Infinity on opposite sides.

For some reason I read Gamma's post as Kyouko calling Infinity and me town partners, and that threw me off. Thanks for pointing that out.

I wonder if this threw Galron off because Galron is partnered with Infinity, and he didnt understand why he was being called a town partner with her, rather than a scum partner

VOTE: Galron

[ssbm_Kyouko]

That might be like e-2 or something idk the vc

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Yes that is.e2, ydrasse, Gamma, tetrina, pooky, and me voting Galron

Pedit: o thx

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Roden, what do you think of DGB and Galron as individuals? Separate from which wagon has more resistance

[ssbm_Kyouko]

also do you think it is important for us to sort the callers?

i think it's not super important unless they have roles. but it could provide something for us to talk about to generate content & might be useful for that reason

i can't tell if this is anything or not, but let's VOTE: kyouko

Cephrir hasn't changed his vote since his RVS vote in gamepost #69.

I already showed you earlier that cephrir's RVS vote is before that, and that 69 is not an RVS vote.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

also do you think it is important for us to sort the callers?

i think it's not super important unless they have roles. but it could provide something for us to talk about to generate content & might be useful for that reason

i can't tell if this is anything or not, but let's VOTE: kyouko

It's literally an RVS vote.

hello. VOTE: gamma emerald

i think this is gonna be fun.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

hello. VOTE: gamma emerald

i think this is gonna be fun.

I mean its certainly not in my role pm and the word didnt stand out to eme when i read the flavor

I think its significantly more likey that scum (who know that's their name) would notice that in the flavor

good point

VOTE: Kyouko

also do you think it is important for us to sort the callers?

i think it's not super important unless they have roles. but it could provide something for us to talk about to generate content & might be useful for that reason

i can't tell if this is anything or not, but let's VOTE: kyouko

VOTE: ssbm

I got mixed up and thought he was the 3rd voter but I forgot that skitter didnt vote me.in 62. Here is cephrir's RVS, 62 is skitter's case on me, 64 is referring to 62, then Cephrir votes me (second) and then skitter votes me third, but I kinda consider her my first voter in memory/in spirit because she started it with 62.

Also I already pointed this out to you back here

[ssbm_Kyouko]

just like a few assorted thoughts:
- rousseau i feel like you're inordinately focused on the callers, like more focused on them than the players of the 'main' game. why are is so much of your focus on them?
- infinity feels somewhat hollow. and a lot of her conversation seems pedantic/shallow/nitpicky. not sure what the right words are exactly
- dont' really get the ceph scumreads (from dgb, gamma, galron)
- @ssbm why are you townreading me?

i felt like her townread on skitt was good and especially that she expected me to put weight into it. that's a towny bias

i thought you didn't like the townread last night?

- i'm not really sure i get the galron wagon? like i'm not sure they're a shining beacon of towniness but i also don't really scumread them

The way you insisted when pushing me reminded me of myself when I get tunneled as town. I could feel the determination in your posts, and I recognized that when I answered your questions, you would feel begrudgingly satisfied with the answer, but then you would find something else and push me on that (because you're tunneled town). Eventually you seemed satisfied with everything, but I get the feeling you're not going to TR me fully at all this game, or if you do, it will be volatile because you'll be hanging on to a nagging suspicion about me.

If you're not sure of the Galron wagon and don't like the cephrir one, are you SRing anyone besides Infinity atm?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I wonder if this threw Galron off because Galron is partnered with Infinity, and he didnt understand why he was being called a town partner with her, rather than a scum partner

VOTE: Galron

a) dislike this reasoning, i also thought gamma had written 'town partners'
b) don't want galron to be on e2

I’m not sold on Cephrir!town but I don’t like the way you or Galron entered the thread after kyouko called you town partners with Infinity

Here's Gamma's post. Without the context of the typo, it is ambiguous whether he is using the plural or the singular you, and since the first use of you in the post is singular ( and is addressed at Galron) it is easily read that way from his point of view.

Gamma did write town partners, but it's not wrong to interpret it the way I think he might have.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Betelgeuse

[ssbm_Kyouko]

The pbpa pinged me as well but it didnt feel necessary to comment on it as it was obviously off. Felt like something everyone would just notice without it needing to be pointed out.

I don't understand the point of it though

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Cephrir is wasting a lot of his game posts on IIoA and idle mechtalk,

shrug

not really that into the game yet, it's a little boring

btw leaning town on gamma

What? It's hopping like bunnies on a trampoline!

What's hopping? Gamma or the game?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Pooky,

What's your vibe on this post?

it kiiiiinda feels like you're digging in your heels and i don't get it

Do you think scumFinity does that here?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Wait lmao the pbpa was a serious response to Rousseau's joke about the triangle wtf

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Okay not literally a joke, but the implication was that because tetrina pointed to you and you to Galron, that he should point to tetrina. Obviously that's not a serious train of thought, like you were just memeing out, but he responded as though it were serious

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I've thought Gamma was scum since 321 and have been trying to entrap him since. I think I have enough now.

VOTE: Gamma

Gamma has said in the past that as scum he makes this kind of post about a buddy in order to gauge whether there is any interest in eliminating them. It let's him know if a bus will be necessary, and if nobody bites, it indirectly can have the effect of taking his partner off the table for the day. I think what is happening in the rest of these posts here is not WKing, but is scum!Gamma defending his buddy

it kiiiiinda feels like you're digging in your heels and i don't get it

Do you think scumFinity does that here?

This is the "testing the waters" post. I think he is preparing to bus infinity if things go south for her, but the wagon never takes off enough.

House truly null, Gamma and Pooky in null because they've both done things that are lightly towny and lightly scummy, and to me they feel balanced out.

tbh I think Pooky is slightly towny rn

What do you think of this part of 308 re: Infinity's push on Skitter?

In Infinity's discussion with skitter, I really felt like I was being white knighted at first. I didnt say anything because I wanted to see how long it would go on, and it seemed to me that any push on skitter there was heavily tied to defending me. I'm going to reread this and see what I think today though.

I'm also curious though, as to why Pooky seems townie to you

I didn’t get that sense initially but I might see it on reread (this is not saying I’m necessarily gonna

do

a reread of it)

Here I noticed that Gamma didnt address my read on Infinity. I put her so low on my list in part to troll for a response from Gamma. I felt like he intentionally avoided it when responding to that post, so I followed up specifically asking him what he thought of Infinity, trying to get him to commit to a stance, because I felt like he was sitting fence. And he continues to ride the fence in his response.

how do you distinguish between a white knight and just me townreading you

@ssbm

White knighting is used to counterattack skitter here. Essentially the same words could be used to TR me in a different context, where I'm not being pushed by skitter, and that's the distinction. It's because it's tied into your push on skitter who was pushing me at the time. You were using a defense of me in your push on skitter, rather than just explaining a TR on me. It's the context of the words that distinguishes the wk from the tr

VOTE: infinity I want to do this or DGB right now in the interest of consolidating a bit

Why would you vote DGB to consolidate, doesn’t it have like no votes?

Doesnt address my infinity vote but steers the conversation towards DGB.

Okay why are DGB and galron in your bottom 3 reads?

Doesnt mention the third of my bottom 3, which was infinity at the time.

Infinity what’s your thought on Yrdasse atp?

probably town

That’s pretty much what I expected
Can you elaborate why though?

i felt like her townread on skitt was good and especially that she expected me to put weight into it. that's a towny bias

I still think it's unlikely scum!ydrasse is like, i need to show i'm excited to be town in my first post

cool cool

This whole interaction is theatre

Hmm okay Gamma do you think you and Infinity as 2 scums makes sense?

Not really
I feel like our combined trajectory would be different given this would be the second time we rolled scum together to my knowledge and the first one was a tragedy, so I’d definitely want to avoid the same pitfall we fell into before

I think this reveals that Gamma has been thinking about the last time he was scum with infinity, probably because he's rolled scum with her this time.

Gamma what's your read on infinity now then if you're not necessarily going to reread her and skitter?

A light TR, though cautious because although I don’t really remember it well I think last time she was scum against me I wasn’t very good at reading that
And just generally I’m not certain her play isn’t coming from scum yet

Here he is still holding fast to a "light TR" which is the same verbiage she uses to describe her read of him, but at the same time he is still poised to flip on her at any moment by hedging on "I'm not certain her play isn't coming from scum yet". Infinity also says something similar about Gamma, that she light TRs him, but isn't sure yet. Eerily similar imo - it feels rehearsed.

It's been my experience that infinity is an "easy scumread" - a weakness that scum would definitely exploit.

Infinity, have you had a disproportionate number of scum on your final wagons? Including scum that suspects you but may be voting elsewhere for cover?

*strokes beard thoughtfully*

The only purpose of this post is to draw attention to 487, which if DGB is town, can be used in defense of Infinity at a later date after DGB flips. DGB is not exactly highly regarded, but Gamma is. If he draws attention to it, people might pay more attention.

DGB and Galron’s current posting is making me feel like kyouko may have a point

Using my case for cover, and moves to Galron to begin with. I do think these 3 are the team and that Gamma is bussing Galron here.

VOTE: Galron

So what about her current play seems to be coming from town, but may actually be scummy play that you're not sure of yet?

This was for Gamma but got ninjad

@Gamma

For context, since we're further in the thread: "her" is Infinity

Her push on skitter felt genuine to me, as did her approach to reading me, though I think the skitter push is a stronger point

I had to ask a few times to get him to respond, I think he thought I might drop it because i was preoccupied with other posting. I was staying busy elsewhere as a facade though because I wanted him to keep his guard down as much as I could because I just caught him recently in mini 2217 owners market blitz

Not quite
I could potentially see that being the case but think Infinity is towny atm
So it’s DGB/Galron/? for me
To be clear I don’t think DGB and Galron coming in like they did is an indicator Infinity is scum, moreso that they seemed to feel pressured

I think putting DGB with Galron here is more of a ploy to prepare to move his vote off of Galron when it becomes possible.

I think Blade Dancer is Titus. If not, I dunno.

Okay this might be town :/
I feel like this wouldn’t happen if Galron had a scum PT
VOTE: DGB

This I feel like is a weak ass reason to swap the votes and that feels orchestrated to me.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I’m starting to think the bulk of the active posters are town

Who might be scum then, of the inactives?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

*ebwop

                 

Skitter, didn't your mother ever teach you not to shout fire in a crowded room?
#83, #392, #94
~Monarch                  

i wish i had a better idea of exactly when to place this

kinda feels like potentially stoking flames

Probably was written between the previous broadcast and the broadcast Maple posted it in... unless the static was from an ability that simply delays the message for a day

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Geez, 30 pages already and I won't have time for this game until tomorrow evening after work.

UNVOTE:

Since I'm completely unaware of what's going on at the moment.

This is what the current vote leader has to say about the game state.

Can we launch him into orbit?

The votes against House

VOTE: House House could be scared of all the town speaking over him, he hasn't come back ever since he called me salty

VOTE: House

VOTE: House

I guess I'll vote my other mason.

VOTE: House

I included 655 even though it isn't the current vote because it actually has a reason.

Why should we yeet house?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: Galron

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: Galron

third times the charm?

can you explain to me the issue with

'do you think scum!player (where player is not the one speaking or being spoken to) would do this:'

as that seems to be the basis for your galron read as well as for your gamma emerald case

It's not the basis for my Galron read, I don't know if that's even a point I've made against Galron. Maybe you mean my comment on the way that Gamma moved from Galron to DGB? That is equity with scum!Gamma that comes from Gamma's side and isn't AI for Galron unless Gamma flips red. It makes me feel better that there is equity between my scumreads, but I'm not scumreading Galron

because

of Gamma.

I wouldn't call it the

basis

for my Gamma case, but that's possibly a matter of perception. It is the

reason

I tried to trap him around an infinity partner read. I think his behavior around her, and hers around him, are suspicious, but I don't think there is interest in eliminating him today.

The reason it pinged me in the first place is this - it is a tell specific to Gamma:
"Will ask the general playerbase how they feel about his partner to either a) remove them from people's minds to eliminate or b) know the time is right to bus them
Source: viewtopic.php?p=12881030#p12881030 (Large 233)"
(from Gamma's scumtells in a notes file I keep on my PC)

[ssbm_Kyouko]

It's not the basis for my Galron read, I don't know if that's even a point I've made against Galron.

this was the first time you voted for galron:

VOTE: skitter30

Does a scum!Skitter spend this much effort trying to build a case on town on day 1 of a phase when it's likely any wagon there is likely to break up?

I think skitter is probably town and this (and DGB's vote on skitter) are giving me alarm bells.

Feels like TMI, but if it is TMI, it seems like the intent is to make light of the wagon on skitter indirectly ("it's likely any wagon there is likely to break up"). I say it seems like TMI because Galron has been talking to me as though I'm null or scummy to this point, most of his posting is about how the callers are a distraction iirc. That makes me think he would see me as scummy for bringing the focus there. But he asks his hypothetical as though he knows I'm town. This doesn't align.

VOTE: Galron

It remains to be seen if this is WKing or just defending a buddy but I think Skitter has behaved well since voting me and since I voted her.

The first halves of the sentences are the same but you're comparing apples to oranges. It's right in that post that I think Galron is TMIing me as town. In Gamma's 321 I suspected that scum!Gamma was testing the waters to see if he would need to bus scum!Infinity

[ssbm_Kyouko]

...

Nooooooooo

[ssbm_Kyouko]

The first halves of the sentences are the same but you're comparing apples to oranges. It's right in that post that I think Galron is TMIing me as town. In Gamma's 321 I suspected that scum!Gamma was testing the waters to see if he would need to bus scum!Infinity

right but the tmiing you as town would be on account of asking you if scum!skitter would do x and that doesn't seem to be implied to me so i am asking the issue with this general type of question as it also stood out to you elsewhere

unless you think simply assuming that scum!skitter wouldn't be pushing scum!you in that situation is tmi? because that feels ??? to me

I think you might need to reread the posts more closely as there are a couple of problems with what you're describing.

Galron is addressing DGB in response to it voting Skitter.
Galron says, to DGB, does scum!Skitter push town [Kyouko] like this?
I identify this (Galron referring to me as town) feels TMI to me because so far I have felt that Galron viewed me as null or scummy, and that if anything, he should have a negative view of me because he sees the discussion about the callers as distracting.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Galron is addressing DGB in response to it voting Skitter.
Galron says, to DGB, does scum!Skitter push town [Kyouko] like this?
I identify this (Galron referring to me as town) feels TMI to me because so far I have felt that Galron viewed me as null or scummy, and that if anything, he should have a negative view of me because he sees the discussion about the callers as distracting.

1.

yeah first you meant not to be there

but asking

2.

do you think scum!skitter does pushes you like this as town?

3.

does not imply that you are town? like you are answering the question for drippinggoofball as 'yes' in order to conclude that

4.

galron was tmiing you as town?

5.

whereas asking 'do you think scum!skitter pushes a wagon likely to fall apart like this?'

6.

to me implies that galron thinks it is not super likely but is asking drippinggoofball for their opinion

7.

and thus if not likely that galron thinks scum!skitter would do this, that implies galron thinks more likely town!skitter, thus not inconsistent with earlier interactions with you

8.

so i am asking why this sort of question means that to you

1. I'm thinking this is a reference to a typo, not sure. If it's important lmk.
2. This is the exact question that was asked, with the green inserted by me for clarity, because the wording in your post is unclear:

VOTE: skitter30

Does a scum!Skitter spend this much effort trying to build a case on town

[Kyouko]

on day 1 of a phase when it's likely any wagon there is likely to break up?

3. I am the player that Skitter was spending effort in trying to build a case on, so yes, it does imply that I am town. If DGB had answered yes, it would follow that DGB also concedes that I am town for the purposes of answering the question. I have drawn no conclusions about anyone, including DGB, from a made-up answer to this question. I

have

drawn conlcusions about Galron based on the wording he used in his own question. He chose those words.

4. Galron

is

slipping that he thinks I am town here. If he were not, he would have worded the question differently.
5. <nothing to respond to>
6. I don't disagree with your conclusion here. This, however, has nothing to do with Galron TMIing me as town. If he was posing the question as though I were town, he would have said "town!Kyouko", instead of "town", because he did use "scum!Skitter" as a hypothetical.
7. Galron's read on skitter is not what is inconsistent. What is inconsistent is that he sees the discussions about the callers as a distraction, but even though I have been very focused on the callers, he slips that I am town, when he hasn't mentioned anything of the sort before. In fact, later on, when I further clarify that the inconsistency on me is related to my focus on the callers, he claims he has no read on me yet, but he does have a view on me:

Galron I think should have a different view of me based on his stance around the communications from the callers. He said they're a distraction and town should not abide a distraction taking hold of the thread

What is my view of you? I'm not even sure I've got a read on you yet, but I do have a view. I'll tell you about it after you tell me what you think it is.

I believe the initial communications were a distraction, yes, put there for color. Whether the subsequent ones are relevant, no idea yet.

8. Apples and oranges. My read on Galron is not related to "this sort of question" in the sense you seem to think it is. The only relation it has to that question is that in the wording of that question, Galron TMIs that I am town.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

That took a while to write because Rousseau is obfuscating the issue with the formatting and misquoting the actual content of the quotes because it's coming from memory^

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I've seen it^

[ssbm_Kyouko]

That took a while to write because Rousseau is obfuscating the issue with the formatting and misquoting the actual content of the quotes because it's coming from memory^

now it just looks to me like your point is,

is tmi because 'town' instead of 'town!kyouko'

which, uh, shrug

what's the rest of the reasoning as to why galron is a scums?

shortly thereafter he says he doesn't have a read on me yet, which is in contradiction with him calling me town in his question to DGB. I think this further indicates that calling me town was a slip and he's backtracking to cover it up.
I also haven't seen anything since then to convince me he's townie or solving.
Furthermore, the way he says he "leaned in" to your meme question about the triangle of being annoyed between Tetrina, you, and him, makes me think he's having trouble engaging in general and is "leaning in" to try to force some involvement. Describing it as leaning in reveals that he is aware he is detached, and it feels like something scum would do: Open up about what they're actually feeling in a game to appear genuine and therefore townie.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Actually 573 is solvey.

@infinity I'll go back and look at that, I didn't get that impression from the original Galron-DGB interaction

pedit: and yes, he was leaning in to the joke. In Large 233, I was completely lost for what to do early on. Town was talking too fast and too deep for me to get a breath. town!Anya started the game by trolling, claiming she was in a masonry with no other players. Later she changed it to say she was in a neighborhood with me. I was scum, and there was no neighborhood. I used that as scum and leaned in to it and started trolling her back and pretended I was in the hood with her. That got me revitalized in the game and took a lot of scrutiny off of me. The way he says he "leaned in" reminds me of how I "leaned in" to Anya's joke/trolling and used that to distract town.

I lost that game, but I made it pretty far.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

shortly thereafter he says he doesn't have a read on me yet, which is in contradiction with him calling me town in his question to DGB. I think this further indicates that calling me town was a slip and he's backtracking to cover it up.
I also haven't seen anything since then to convince me he's townie or solving.
Furthermore, the way he says he "leaned in" to your meme question about the triangle of being annoyed between Tetrina, you, and him, makes me think he's having trouble engaging in general and is "leaning in" to try to force some involvement. Describing it as leaning in reveals that he is aware he is detached, and it feels like something scum would do: Open up about what they're actually feeling in a game to appear genuine and therefore townie.

but had he said town!kyouko you wouldn't feel as though he was calling you town, so again, shrug

hm, and this is the strongest you feel about any player in the game right now?

yes, if he had said town!Kyouko, it would imply he is only saying I am town for the purpose of the question. He didn't say that though, so, no shrug.

This is the strongest scumread I have.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: Galron

Does Galron still fit into the equation if both Infinity and Gamma are town? I'm back and forth on Gamma but I think Infinity backed up everything she said about her TR on Gamma with some pretty detailed receipts.

Oh I didnt see this earlier,

It's not an equation for me, so yes, he can still be scum if they are both town

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Hmmmmmm

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: DGB

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Ok

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I will give you my corn cob pipe in exchange for your japanese fan

No deal

[ssbm_Kyouko]

galron is an ok wagon

VOTE: ceph

galron's takes are pretty ok, skitt isn't really going anywhere but i agreed with galron? i think? when he said that ceph's posts towards tetrina felt a bit forced, to me if felt like he was trying to twist her newbie-indicative posts into something scummy. could be a playstyle thing

Something is not right I feel - for as many people there are that are TRing each other there doesn't seem to be any consensus besides on House who is being replaced. I feel like there are scum in the townreads (not necessarily in my townreads, just in our collective ones).

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Oh I was Q+ing in Infinity's ISO, trying to figure out if she's actually placed a SR on anyone but skitter this game

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Hmm...

Roden, what's your opinion on Galron? Do you think he could be scum? You seemed to be talking like he could be earlier, but then this...

VOTE: Galron

Does Galron still fit into the equation if both Infinity and Gamma are town? I'm back and forth on Gamma but I think Infinity backed up everything she said about her TR on Gamma with some pretty detailed receipts.

This kind of made me think otherwise.
UNVOTE:

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Hmm...

Roden, what's your opinion on Galron? Do you think he could be scum? You seemed to be talking like he could be earlier, but then this...

VOTE: Galron

Does Galron still fit into the equation if both Infinity and Gamma are town? I'm back and forth on Gamma but I think Infinity backed up everything she said about her TR on Gamma with some pretty detailed receipts.

This kind of made me think otherwise.
UNVOTE:

I don't get the associatives with Infinity, Gamma and me and how that affects Roden's read on me. I guess I'm not thinking that deeply or something. But this unvote is DGB, no? Does the unvote have anything to do with the post? I feel like you're setting up some sort of trajectory here and it feels produced for lack of a better word.

This was an unvote from DGB yeah. I'm leaning towards Roden, so yes there is a trajectory and yes the unvote has to do with the rest of the post, but I want to hear what he says first

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Imagine shitposting 55 pages. I am not reading this.

Can you give brief explaination what is now?

Haven't read what comes after this yet.

There are no claims.

Infinity and Skitter have been 1v1ing most of the day
The largest wagon was on your slot and it popped up out of nowhere about 5-10 pages ago because House has been missing and it seems like scum are inactive (to me and Gamma at least, possibly others)

There was a time where there were 3 wagons of 3 players each and one of those 3 wagons contained the other 2 players that had wagons. So interesting composition to look at if you iso the mod.

Read the setup if you haven't already, there are 3 town callers and 1 scum caller, and the 5th caller could be either alignment. The 1 scum caller we know of knows and is known to the scum team.

Imo there are ISOs that are worth reading, like Skitter and Imaginality together might be worthwhile, and you can probably skim over the shitposts and be able read the whole game in a few hours

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Imaginality

who? that person isn't in this game

Yes, supposed to be infinity, I think that was autocorrect as I just played a game with Imaginality not long ago

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Actually I dont think Roden's answer is going to change my mind

VOTE: Roden

I'm feeling inspired

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Pls sheep me

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'll take responsibility

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Game is starting to feel, like Gamma was saying, like the active posters are all town. I went back to reread RVS because that's where I tend to be best at catching scum and think Roden could be scum from the first 10ish pages

[ssbm_Kyouko]

ok well my readrate on skitt is 100% besides perpetual melo so there

VOTE: ceph

That's a funny way to spell Roden

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Hmm hmm hmm

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Whenever Infinity hasn't been pushing skitter she's fallen back to Ceph. Once in the beginning, and now again. Mostly she's just voting skitter and mediating other discussions though. Recently she said she's ready to basically just defend townreads and jump on the biggest wagon that isn't on her townreads. In the same post she says she'd like to sort Roden or cephrir if they're around. Ceph

has

been around though, and she's had the time to sort him since early today when she made the effort to get away from the skitter push. So it doesnt track to me that she's still looking to vote him over Roden right now. Especially when she seemed receptive to voting Roden until he became an actual wagon.

Highly suspicious

Fwiw I think if you read cephrir's iso that infinity's point falls apart rather easily. Maybe I'm being too easy in TRing ceph though.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

yo is this a chainsaw? ive never noticed one in real time before

Bless your little townie heart

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: Pooky

That readlist of the communicaters comes from scum I think. Scum know who the scum NPC is. This is Pooky leading Town into deception.

???

[ssbm_Kyouko]

@callers,

Think it was asked already, but do you know if there is any material benefit if we or you can identify the scum caller?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

So you think pooky is scum and telling us to listen to the scum caller, who is...?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Is it just me or is shutterbug blatantly crumbing traitor?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I imagine they've been shown the wiki because Tetrina seems to be aware of acronyms specific to forum mafia, and they seem to all know each other irl

[ssbm_Kyouko]

And if they're reading they would get the context from the discussion earlier today.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Well that was a thing
My gut wants to believe one of the people doing the pearl clutching thing is scum, because I feel like it would be an oversight to not tell the callers “hey there’s also someone among you that isn’t operating with the same intentions”

Also I’m starting to read Shutterbug’s posts in a Mahiru voice

What was a thing? And what is pearl clutching?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

So pearl clutching is exaggerated surprise?
Shutterbug has said they can only talk when the radio is on. I dont know how long the radio is on for though, if they're IMing or forum posting... in one of the comms, shutterbug asks a question, and the rest of them answer it. Asking about who should lead town

@Callers, if you're able to, can you describe in more detail how your conversation works? If you're unable to answer, blink twice Also, for those of you that are "good", do you know the name of the faction you're aligned with already? I find the way Locke described theirself to be odd, saying good, rather than a faction name, but not being a forum player maybe they are not used to "claiming" in that sense.

Pedit: yes. Only 4 callers' alignments are guaranteed. There are explicitly 2 alignments of caller unless the usage of "both" just refers to the 2 revealed alignments, in which case a 3p is possible. I think most likely the 5th caller is either town or "traitor" - aligned with scum, knows the identity of the scum (or doesnt - this isn't a normal so an uninformed scum is possible).

Possible 3p wincon could be to identify the scum caller without getting IDed by scum or something. In that case they'd be helping the town.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I gotta sleep but if you iso me and rousseau early we both talk about the verbiage of the rules post - it's possible the 5th caller could be anything depending on how you interpret them imo

[ssbm_Kyouko]

hi! the rescuers (morning tweet iso) if you'd be so kind

Okay, I read them. Was there any information given about who's controlling them?

Presumably it's not MT, since this wasn't listed as a bastard game.

Tetrina told us she was invited to this game by MT and that she plays irl. I believe based on the description of the players that are controlling the callers it is possible that the 5 callers also know MT irl and possibly are from the same player group as Tetrina.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

in my experience when there's 2 leading wagons and neither of the 2 have any solid/real read on the other wagon its probly just S/S

They both just repped in, though generally I'd agree. Enchant should at least be able to read S_S via Roden though

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: enchant

E-1 I think

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Keep in mind this is plurality and if nobody reaches majority by deadline the first player to the tied VC will die

[ssbm_Kyouko]

intent

enchant please claim

can wait for skitter responses

one more transmission

?

Since others have been unvoting both wagons, just going to state ftr that I'm not going to unvote to prevent a hammer, though I dont mind waiting for skitter and 1 more transmission.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Also enchant is in a different timezone I think, I think in Eurasia somewhere, so the claim may not come until after the transmission

[ssbm_Kyouko]

s_s replaces into scum slots without fail its s_s

Is this actually statistically accurate?

In my experience he replaces into scum slots 100% of the time

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Maybe he didnt read the setup post closely because theres a summary of mechanics in the scum pt

Ninja

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Unless enchant is a scum PR that cant disguise actions as a town PR, then they might want Enchant to claim VT to try to.avoid the lim. With S_S preferring not to claim early he's either PR, scum, or baiting the NK. One of these 2 has to.die today or as it has been said, they will get rehashed later. They cant

both

come to ELO. I think once skitter catches up we eliminate enchant. If S_S can't prove himself town within a couple of days we can revisit before ELO if we need to.

Pedit:Rousseau you're not talking siege of aurelia are you?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Whatever happens, S_S should not be asked to claim toDay now that Enchant has claimed

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Who are your buddies and why haven't you self hammered yet?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

[ssbm_Kyouko]

also uh skitter caught up? and made other people do the thing?

I thought skitter hadn't actually done posting to reply to everything she had put off during VLA. I saw she responded to Infinity but there was more I thought

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Is SS normally this like, chill about his potential elim as either alignment? I think I'm interpreting it in a positive way currently

He is in 2 scumgames I've played with him (I was town), but I never played with town!S_S unless it was a long time ago and I forgot

[ssbm_Kyouko]

@_@

enchant posting like that makes my heart say “town” but i am trying to ignore it

^ agree with the town vibes tbh. Feels like he never got into the game and tbh doesnt care abt getting flipped, and isnt going to put in effort for this anymore

@ssbm o tried to respond to the most pressing/immediate things, but if there's something i owe you please requote it so i can address it

you dont owe me anything no, I just remember when I put Enchant on E-1 there were a few things to wait on: a claim, a transmission, and for you to finish responding to anything you had to sidebar during VLA. I just wanted to make sure you were done before Enchant is hammered because I'm not keeping tabs on everything that everyone wants to know from you specifically.

Also I dont think scum!S_S says "heh" here. Its weak af but he's really stiff as scum I think. Not gonna hang my hat on this but for toDay I much prefer Enchant over S_S.

@rousseau I'll take a look

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Enchant has given up, but I'm not convinced it's a townie kind of given up :/

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Rousseau, basically what I'm getting from ydrasse, ceph, pooky, skitter posting is: I mostly agree with posts I'm seeing from ceph and skitter. Ydrasse I feel like she has dropped off in activity and if these wagons are T/T she could be scum skirting the edges. I dont know really, I felt very good about her early toDay so I'm going to stick to that at least for toDay. I have pings from a ydrasse/pooky team vibing their way to the end but I doubt this is allowed if town goes wrong long enough.

I think Enchant is going to flip scum here though. Probably none of that matters.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

UNVOTE:

[ssbm_Kyouko]

yes

i reread rodens iso :>

What does this mean

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I literally just removed my suspicions of you/pooky from 2086 in case they were accurate, I didnt want to get killed tonight

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Oh okay I thought you got Roden confused with House and were voting the wrong slot

Pooky can I have the hammer?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I never get to hammer

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Ok

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Super pagetop hammmmmer

VOTE: enchant

[ssbm_Kyouko]

it also makes sense of why she was focusing on the comms

Yeah, she softed it to one of Cephrir or Galron iirc, could be scum also noticed.

Comms expert could also just be a flavored PT cop/Traffic Analyst though, unfortunately we dont get detailed flips

[ssbm_Kyouko]

galron

After House shows up and contributes, I'd be willing to vote there then.

I could also vote Gamma.

Scum is Gamma/House/Tetrina

VOTE: Something_Smart

Let's make it an exciting race!

Cephrir scumming up the page.

Enchant isn't scum.

this is my reasons for dgb vote

Good morning.

I don't hate the above but want to actually go over stuff a bit before I jump anywhere today.

I think I agree with this. Not a bad reason to vote DGB but doesnt convince me on it's own and I want to take some time for now. I dont think theres any reason to.vote specifically on or off the wagon though, as those 2 seemed inevitable, and scum easily could have bussed or split between wagons.

have you thought about why they might be important to me?

at the time i saw this as an obvious crumb about having a role that involves the callers & backed off. i assume most of you saw it too? if so, maybe the mafia actually care about them for some reason

yeah this is what I was talking about, the soft she made was at you rather than Galron it seems

VOTE: enchant

reminder to self to see whether infinity ever adds any performance to this

galron's enchant vote is fine to me

ill refrain from quoting one million rousseau posts but she's got the seemingly right wagon read feeling uneasy about the SS wagon and is sussing galron which i think makes her the only widely townread player to do so

I also sussed Galron D1, I still do I think. I didnt do any rereading, usually i would but I'm a little sick rn

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I dont think I disagreed with anything Ceph just said

I do disagree with 2179 though, I kinda feel like DGB is leaning into the "too scummy to be scum" thing on purpose at this point
VOTE: DGB

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I do disagree with 2179 though

Really? I think Ceph would respond to that exactly the same as either alignment.

I dont know Ceph - safe to say it's something that may be said as both alignments by any player, but that doesn't contradict my point. I don't think it's "exactly what scum would say."

If it would be said as both alignments, then quoting it and saying "this is exactly what scum would say" and accompanying that with a vote makes for a suspicious vote.

I feel like DGB is just being brazenly scummy at this point to avoid suspicion.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Scum is Cephrir and Something_Smart. I'm not sure about the third.

UNVOTE:

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I thought I saw something that it seems I didn't wrt DGB, so I'm feeling a bit lost right now. I just finished looking at VCs from D1 which lead me to see that Cephrir/Gamma/Tetrina as a unit bounced around between Enchant and S_S. Imo this indicates they're uninformed after reviewing the combined ISOs. I don't see a bus in there, I feel like they all have natural looking opinions of one another when their reads on each other do come up. At most there is 1 scum here if I'm blind but I am fairly certain this is our townblock.

The one place I noticed anything unusual about these 3 is in 711, 760, and 762 Gamma is defending Galron from Cephrir. If Galron flips scum at some point and we have Gamma/Cephrir in (M)ELO, this may be worth looking back to.

Something feels off about Skitter/Ydra dropping their TRs on me - moreso Ydra feels off. Maybe I'm remembering wrong but I don't remember her being chummy with Skitter at all yday and it's possible Ydra is buddying Skitter here.

i'm not really sure why you think i ought to be viewing ssbm as flipbait? that's not how i view her and i'm not sure why that's relevant to the situation

to me, it doesn't seem like you considered whether ssbm could be limbait, or really anything about her mindset. if you did, i think you were uncharacteristically quick to jump to a conclusion based on shallow reasoning. i sort of understand where you're getting the idea that it's likely that ssbm approaches the "malefactors" thing this way as scum, but i have no idea where you get the idea that it's unlikely for her to approach it this way as scum. i felt her explanation was pretty robust and would've at least taken some doing to replicate and scum, and i actually feel like you recognized that too, but you brushed it aside because it didn't fit with your narrative.

ok, i still don't get why you think i should be viewing her as limbait? can you spell out how/why you think i should have been having that thought in this context?

i do think i was considering her mindset - i feel like the way she approached it comes from scum much more often than it does come from town. i'm not really getting what conclusiosn you think i ought to have been drawing here instead?
like my whole point is that i don't think town has the thoughts she had about the caller messages. i don't think town particularly notices the word malefactor (and i'm basing this off the fact that i know i didn't until she pointed it out). but scum, who are flavored this way, would.

i don't really get why you think her approach was townie tbh

and wrt the traitor thing - i'm double-checking the timeline because i'm not sure if that's what she thought the first time she read the messages or the second (i.e. after i called her out on it), because that's relevant to how i

view understand

the situation

Rereading skitter and infinity right now, and going to take another look at Galron. I did get a bit of a feeling in the beginning of this game with Skitter that she was intentionally arguing point-by-point with me to replicate a recent towngame, so I was cautious of TRing her, but I did end up doing that. Looking at this bold though, I feel like this could be a scum correction. If you're saying "view the situation" in a way that means "understand the situation", you don't think twice about it really. The connotation is the same. I feel like this could be skitter editing her post, seeing that the word "view" looks like she doesn't have an opinion on it but is instead just looking at it, and changing it to "understand" because it's a more townie word.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

how am i buddying skitter when i said she fell in my townreads :< that’s not very buddylike i just agreed with the sentiment and was kind of relieved that it was said out loud because i didn’t feel as strongly about why you were town today

Just feels sudden to me but ofc I'm biased as I'm the object of it. Helps to hear how you're feeling though

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm confused by skitter and infinity suddenly losing interest in each other. I had thought one could be scum since both seem to waste their vote on each other for most of yesterDay, but assuming they were TvT it doesn't leave much in the POE. It starts to look like Enchant was bussed, which fmpov means one or both of Pooky/Ydra, and from an outside POV would be 1-2 of me, Pooky, and Ydra.

This conclusion doesn't feel right to me so I think the initial premise that they're TvT isn't likely. I didn't have time before work to keep reading but going to continue now. I feel like there's a lot of reevaluating to do today. If everyone that seemed town yesterday still seems town on a reread then scum!S_S seems more probable. I've only played with scum!S_S before though and he feels somehow different to me. I wasn't too sold on town!Roden though.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

You feel less measured here, and I feel like as scum you like to bring attention to your playstyle. It could be you bring attention to your town and scum playstyles matching as either alignment since I haven't played with town!S_S.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

btw who else noticed Rousseau's soft? Curious as to how likely it is that it went unnoticed. Cephrir would of course have seen because it was addressed at him, and I know I saw it on my first read, so it was probably noticeable, but idk how noticeable it really was.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

i'll be honest I'm not reading your behavior at all

I mean, I guess I can't blame you for that. I'll see what I can do to make myself easier to read, but no guarantees.

the only thing that would change my mind is like a really good scum case on somebody

I'll make you a long one you can sheep without reading

[ssbm_Kyouko]

You feel less measured here

, and I feel like as scum you like to bring attention to your playstyle. It could be you bring attention to your town and scum playstyles matching as either alignment since I haven't played with town!S_S.

A lot of his posts are about him though. so how is he different this game?

bolded

[ssbm_Kyouko]

btw who else noticed Rousseau's soft? Curious as to how likely it is that it went unnoticed. Cephrir would of course have seen because it was addressed at him, and I know I saw it on my first read, so it was probably noticeable, but idk how noticeable it really was.

I didn't and am kind of confused as to that comment about how it was directed more at cephrir than to me.

I just couldn't remember if rousseau directed the comment at you or Cephrir off the top of my head, and didnt want to go back to check. She was directing at Cephrir.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I doubt it mattered if they thought we were correct on the callers, they probably just saw the soft, and that combined with her status as a TR, and/or her reads got her killed. There were other softs that would have been eligible for the kill as well imo, assuming they didnt come from scum.

It seems like scum would have seen her soft so the soft is probably the leading cause. I do think she prevented a couple of wagons on from going too hard too fast and was a voice of reason generally. Critical of things others didnt notice.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

whatcha think of the SS readlist?

Lacking but he's a replacemtnt and i'm not sure we're gonna get super much more out of him given what he read thus far, i'm hoping that as he gets more involved he'll havr more

Honestly i think he pushes me here as scum but isnt so i'm kinda rethinking this read

~
@ssbm what do u think of my vote on you?

I mean you gave away it was for pressure already but before you did that I was suspicious of it, because I couldn't figure out why you would vote me here. I though you'd have to think I was bussing Enchant and for that I'd expect some kind of analysis indicating I was, but nothing came. But letting it stew a bit I understand the feeling you're getting wrt a dwindling tr, as I'm getting there slowly myself.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm really feeling like ydrasse could be a) scum that took advantage stage of town!skitter vs town!infinity, b) responsible in part for dismantling House's first wagon - she goes quiet again after it dies, and c) bussing Enchant, as her reasoning was that Roden's last post vibed with her. Before that she was making a display of being indecisive on which one to vote, and I feel like if someone did bus it was her (or S_S, if we had S/S wagons).

Yesterday on the first couple days of D1 I had a very strong TR on her by by the end of the day she felt more like "outside the poe" to me than she felt "definitely town", and then today I felt like she started pushing DGB and left me high and dry when I followed.

And she does seem like she's buddying you a little bit though I kinda believe the emotion she presented. I can't tell if I'm being AtEd or not, and I feel bad thinking she could be AtEing as it did seem like she was actually having a hard time irl earlier in this game. But that felt a bit manipulative to me when I read it. It definitely affected Infinity, possibly some.else (Cephrir?), but idk if it was intentional or not

[ssbm_Kyouko]

What are spoons?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Well I'm dwindling on ydra because I had a strong read the first couple days of the game but she slowed down a lot and the end of D1 start of toDay has me questioning that early vibe.

Feels like I have a blind spot somewhere

[ssbm_Kyouko]

the snip you have there is about me understanding why your tr on me is dwindling. I'm saying my tr on ydra is also dwindling.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

>> Enchant [6] : Gamma Emerald, Infinity 324, Galron, rousseau, PookyTheMagicalBear, Tetrina
>> Something_Smart [4] : ssbm_Kyouko, Cephrir, DrippingGoofbal, Enchant
>> Infinity 324 [1] : Something_Smart
>> Galron [1] : Ydrasse

>> Not Voting [1] : skitter30

i think that this wagon formation is quite curious tbh, and i think that there's probably scum on ss + 1 scum on enchant

VOTE: enchant

E-1 I think

enchant how did you come to place this vote?

i cntrl+f'd your whole iso for 'enchant', you have exactly one instance of 'enchant' in your iso prior to this vote: 1373, where your giving him a rundown on the game, and you blamed his wagon on house being inactive.

other than that, it doesn't look like you have a scumread on enchant, nor does it look like you interacted with him at all, nor does it look like you *tried* to interact with him at all, unless i'm missing something obvious

and wrt house, your iso is similarly puzzling:
- true null read on him 398: i think at that point you could have had some sort of read on him given his entrance pushing tetrina, but i could still understand a null read at that time
- questioning the house wagon 968

and uh not much else

so unless i'm missing something obvious: where did the e1 vote on enchant even come from?

I guess you missed 1728? I didn't feel a need to ask Enchant anything though. I was reading what he was posting and others were asking him the questions.

I was more focused on S_S because I was SRing Roden when he replaced out, and I felt like the wagon on House was garbage. There wasn't any evidence to it and it felt kind of out of the blue, so initially I held off on voting enchant because of my bias against the previous House wagon. After seeing what Enchant claimed and what S_S said about preferring not to claim though, combined with the town vibes I was getting from S_S, and seeing what others were posting about Enchant and his responses, it was clear he'd given up. I wasn't sure if it was given up town or scum, but he seemed like a solid elimination regardless of his alignment. Not the town you want in ELO, as he could be easily mislimmed.

There wasnt anything to read on House really, his iso was like 2-3 posts maybe?, and I was probably more focused on Gamma or another active player at the time he was a hot topic. After I started to come around on Gamma though I'd gone through a lot of players and had a lot of people as either town or out of the poe, and it became increasingly likely to me that scum was in the lurkers, House and Roden.

You could probably say the same thing about me and House to half the playerlist wrt there being not much there. Nobody else defended the wagon I dont think, except maybe lightly, but to me it looked like some lazy votes on House that were there to distract from someone else. And nobody else was speaking up about how bad the wagon was. Pooky and Gamma will recall how hard I defended scum (KittyTacky) on D1 of owners market blitz. Sometimes I'm just wrong.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

It was D1 so yeah I guess you weren't around. I hard defended Kitty saying I thought scum were abusing plurality and that her lim was too easy, that she seemed like the "default" elim being pushed at deadline. I tried to flip the wagon onto town!VFP, even appealed directly to Gamma, who was hard bussing Kitty for towncred, asking him to switch to VFP, but he didn't. I got shit for it off and on for a lot of the game, a lot of it from Nancy

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm much more willing to stick my neck out as town than scum, that's the point I'm trying to make. S_S was in this game as well but he rapped in early D2 after this happened. He was scum with Gamma and Kitty

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm much more willing to stick my neck out as town than scum, that's the point I'm trying to make.

S_S was in this game as well but he rapped in early D2 after this happened. He was scum with Gamma and Kitty

EBWOP. First sentence was an addon to my reply to Pooky, second was for everyone

[ssbm_Kyouko]

my reading of you mostly consists of using a word counter on your ISO

I'll go point for point with anyone as either alignment, but more often as town. I got long-winded in OMB because Nancy was writing a lot for me to respond to

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: ssbm_kyouko

Skitter's making sense.

Is that the only reason you're voting me?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: ssbm_kyouko

Skitter's making sense.

Is that the only reason you're voting me?

Actually no. I'm considering the argument you kept making on me yesterday, which was the same thing over and over, and you laid out a long argument on Gamma but never followed up or got back to it. It's just sus. And skitter does make good points here.

Spoiler: My D1 on Galron

VOTE: skitter30

Does a scum!Skitter spend this much effort trying to build a case on town on day 1 of a phase when it's likely any wagon there is likely to break up?

I think skitter is probably town and this (and DGB's vote on skitter) are giving me alarm bells.

Feels like TMI, but if it is TMI, it seems like the intent is to make light of the wagon on skitter indirectly ("it's likely any wagon there is likely to break up"). I say it seems like TMI because Galron has been talking to me as though I'm null or scummy to this point, most of his posting is about how the callers are a distraction iirc. That makes me think he would see me as scummy for bringing the focus there. But he asks his hypothetical as though he knows I'm town. This doesn't align.

VOTE: Galron

It remains to be seen if this is WKing or just defending a buddy but I think Skitter has behaved well since voting me and since I voted her.

it kiiiiinda feels like you're digging in your heels and i don't get it

Do you think scumFinity does that here?

I've had the same inkling and it grows stronger the longer the skitter-infinty discussion goes on. It seems white-knighty, I'm kinda thinking a Galron, DGB, Infinity team rn. Possible theater between them and they're all sort of distanced by positioning differently around skitter and I.

Pedit: not sure if launch was a typo but if it was that word is recently banned, and if it wasn't you should probably use a word less similar like yeet

I like most of ydrasse's list, feels pretty close to my thoughts so far, at the very least it reinforces for me that she's town even if we're both wrong.

Mine goes:
Townread: Rousseau, Ydrasse
Townlean: Skitter, Cephrir,
Nulltown: Tetrina
Null: Gamma, Pooky, House
Nullscum: Roden, DGB
Scumlean: Galron
Scumread: Infinity

House truly null, Gamma and Pooky in null because they've both done things that are lightly towny and lightly scummy, and to me they feel balanced out.

Roden I expect to have heard more from by now, but it hasn't been long so this could fluctuate quickly.

Galron's reaction to being voted feels like unconcerned town to me, but this is easy to fake as scum. This lifts him out of the scumread tier to a scumlean for me.

In Infinity's discussion with skitter, I really felt like I was being white knighted at first. I didnt say anything because I wanted to see how long it would go on, and it seemed to me that any push on skitter there was heavily tied to defending me. I'm going to reread this and see what I think today though.

It has skitter, I want to consolidate with skitter or ydrasse, and both the players they're voting are my bottom 3 with Galron

Okay why are DGB and galron in your bottom 3 reads?

It's already explained in my readslist.

Galron I think should have a different view of me based on his stance around the communications from the callers. He said they're a distraction and town should not abide a distraction taking hold of the thread

DGB's skitter vote bugged me as potentially opportunistic and there's also something that looks like theater going on between it and Galron

Infinity is white knighting me and also has what feel like forced interactions with galron.

The three of them are sort of positioned "around" skitter vs me, which could be distancing between Galron and DGB/Infinity on opposite sides.

Gamma what's your read on infinity now then if you're not

necessarily

going to reread her and skitter?

Galron I think should have a different view of me based on his stance around the communications from the callers. He said they're a distraction and town should not abide a distraction taking hold of the thread

What is my view of you? I'm not even sure I've got a read on you yet, but I do have a view. I'll tell you about it after you tell me what you think it is.

I believe the initial communications were a distraction, yes, put there for color. Whether the subsequent ones are relevant, no idea yet.

I think you, as town, should be annoyed by me posting about the callers if you really think they are a distraction. I would expect that to color your read on me.

Pedit: nice job Galron, you've stopped tweetie

Also Galron, in 490, who are you about to sheep? What is "the call on cephrir" and who made it? It seems from context it's meant to be me but I'm leaning town on him

This is going to feed into paranoia that I'm buddies with Galron but I do town read him.

why?

DGB's skitter vote bugged me as potentially opportunistic and there's also something that looks like theater going on between it and Galron

Infinity is white knighting me and also has what feel like forced interactions with galron.

The three of them are sort of positioned "around" skitter vs me, which could be distancing between Galron and DGB/Infinity on opposite sides.

It seems like you're answering "why does this feed into paranoia that you are partners with Galron", but I think ydrasse is asking "why do you tr Galron" - maybe I'm wrong in that, but if she wasn't asking that, I'll ask it, because I'd like to know.

"why do you tr Galron"

His giddiness jumps right off the page, maybe he has a big fat PR

I don't know if I recognize the giddiness in rereading his ISO. maybe in recent posting it's not as flat as it started, but I wouldn't say giddy. Where does it jump out for you, in what posts?

I’m not sold on Cephrir!town but I don’t like the way you or Galron entered the thread after kyouko called you town partners with Infinity

I missed this. Where?

Okay why are DGB and galron in your bottom 3 reads?

It's already explained in my readslist.

Galron I think should have a different view of me based on his stance around the communications from the callers. He said they're a distraction and town should not abide a distraction taking hold of the thread

DGB's skitter vote bugged me as potentially opportunistic and there's also something that looks like theater going on between it and Galron

Infinity is white knighting me and also has what feel like forced interactions with galron.

The three of them are sort of positioned "around" skitter vs me, which could be distancing between Galron and DGB/Infinity on opposite sides.

For some reason I read Gamma's post as Kyouko calling Infinity and me town partners, and that threw me off. Thanks for pointing that out.

I wonder if this threw Galron off because Galron is partnered with Infinity, and he didnt understand why he was being called a town partner with her, rather than a scum partner

VOTE: Galron

Roden, what do you think of DGB and Galron as individuals? Separate from which wagon has more resistance

I wonder if this threw Galron off because Galron is partnered with Infinity, and he didnt understand why he was being called a town partner with her, rather than a scum partner

VOTE: Galron

a) dislike this reasoning, i also thought gamma had written 'town partners'
b) don't want galron to be on e2

I’m not sold on Cephrir!town but I don’t like the way you or Galron entered the thread after kyouko called you town partners with Infinity

Here's Gamma's post. Without the context of the typo, it is ambiguous whether he is using the plural or the singular you, and since the first use of you in the post is singular ( and is addressed at Galron) it is easily read that way from his point of view.

Gamma did write town partners, but it's not wrong to interpret it the way I think he might have.

Okay not literally a joke, but the implication was that because tetrina pointed to you and you to Galron, that he should point to tetrina. Obviously that's not a serious train of thought, like you were just memeing out, but he responded as though it were serious

VOTE: Galron

third times the charm?

can you explain to me the issue with

'do you think scum!player (where player is not the one speaking or being spoken to) would do this:'

as that seems to be the basis for your galron read as well as for your gamma emerald case

It's not the basis for my Galron read, I don't know if that's even a point I've made against Galron. Maybe you mean my comment on the way that Gamma moved from Galron to DGB? That is equity with scum!Gamma that comes from Gamma's side and isn't AI for Galron unless Gamma flips red. It makes me feel better that there is equity between my scumreads, but I'm not scumreading Galron

because

of Gamma.

I wouldn't call it the

basis

for my Gamma case, but that's possibly a matter of perception. It is the

reason

I tried to trap him around an infinity partner read. I think his behavior around her, and hers around him, are suspicious, but I don't think there is interest in eliminating him today.

The reason it pinged me in the first place is this - it is a tell specific to Gamma:
"Will ask the general playerbase how they feel about his partner to either a) remove them from people's minds to eliminate or b) know the time is right to bus them
Source: viewtopic.php?p=12881030#p12881030 (Large 233)"
(from Gamma's scumtells in a notes file I keep on my PC)

It's not the basis for my Galron read, I don't know if that's even a point I've made against Galron.

this was the first time you voted for galron:

VOTE: skitter30

Does a scum!Skitter spend this much effort trying to build a case on town on day 1 of a phase when it's likely any wagon there is likely to break up?

I think skitter is probably town and this (and DGB's vote on skitter) are giving me alarm bells.

Feels like TMI, but if it is TMI, it seems like the intent is to make light of the wagon on skitter indirectly ("it's likely any wagon there is likely to break up"). I say it seems like TMI because Galron has been talking to me as though I'm null or scummy to this point, most of his posting is about how the callers are a distraction iirc. That makes me think he would see me as scummy for bringing the focus there. But he asks his hypothetical as though he knows I'm town. This doesn't align.

VOTE: Galron

It remains to be seen if this is WKing or just defending a buddy but I think Skitter has behaved well since voting me and since I voted her.

The first halves of the sentences are the same but you're comparing apples to oranges. It's right in that post that I think Galron is TMIing me as town. In Gamma's 321 I suspected that scum!Gamma was testing the waters to see if he would need to bus scum!Infinity

The first halves of the sentences are the same but you're comparing apples to oranges. It's right in that post that I think Galron is TMIing me as town. In Gamma's 321 I suspected that scum!Gamma was testing the waters to see if he would need to bus scum!Infinity

right but the tmiing you as town would be on account of asking you if scum!skitter would do x and that doesn't seem to be implied to me so i am asking the issue with this general type of question as it also stood out to you elsewhere

unless you think simply assuming that scum!skitter wouldn't be pushing scum!you in that situation is tmi? because that feels ??? to me

I think you might need to reread the posts more closely as there are a couple of problems with what you're describing.

Galron is addressing DGB in response to it voting Skitter.
Galron says, to DGB, does scum!Skitter push town [Kyouko] like this?
I identify this (Galron referring to me as town) feels TMI to me because so far I have felt that Galron viewed me as null or scummy, and that if anything, he should have a negative view of me because he sees the discussion about the callers as distracting.

Galron is addressing DGB in response to it voting Skitter.
Galron says, to DGB, does scum!Skitter push town [Kyouko] like this?
I identify this (Galron referring to me as town) feels TMI to me because so far I have felt that Galron viewed me as null or scummy, and that if anything, he should have a negative view of me because he sees the discussion about the callers as distracting.

1.

yeah first you meant not to be there

but asking

2.

do you think scum!skitter does pushes you like this as town?

3.

does not imply that you are town? like you are answering the question for drippinggoofball as 'yes' in order to conclude that

4.

galron was tmiing you as town?

5.

whereas asking 'do you think scum!skitter pushes a wagon likely to fall apart like this?'

6.

to me implies that galron thinks it is not super likely but is asking drippinggoofball for their opinion

7.

and thus if not likely that galron thinks scum!skitter would do this, that implies galron thinks more likely town!skitter, thus not inconsistent with earlier interactions with you

8.

so i am asking why this sort of question means that to you

1. I'm thinking this is a reference to a typo, not sure. If it's important lmk.
2. This is the exact question that was asked, with the green inserted by me for clarity, because the wording in your post is unclear:

VOTE: skitter30

Does a scum!Skitter spend this much effort trying to build a case on town

[Kyouko]

on day 1 of a phase when it's likely any wagon there is likely to break up?

3. I am the player that Skitter was spending effort in trying to build a case on, so yes, it does imply that I am town. If DGB had answered yes, it would follow that DGB also concedes that I am town for the purposes of answering the question. I have drawn no conclusions about anyone, including DGB, from a made-up answer to this question. I

have

drawn conlcusions about Galron based on the wording he used in his own question. He chose those words.

4. Galron

is

slipping that he thinks I am town here. If he were not, he would have worded the question differently.
5. <nothing to respond to>
6. I don't disagree with your conclusion here. This, however, has nothing to do with Galron TMIing me as town. If he was posing the question as though I were town, he would have said "town!Kyouko", instead of "town", because he did use "scum!Skitter" as a hypothetical.
7. Galron's read on skitter is not what is inconsistent. What is inconsistent is that he sees the discussions about the callers as a distraction, but even though I have been very focused on the callers, he slips that I am town, when he hasn't mentioned anything of the sort before. In fact, later on, when I further clarify that the inconsistency on me is related to my focus on the callers, he claims he has no read on me yet, but he does have a view on me:

Galron I think should have a different view of me based on his stance around the communications from the callers. He said they're a distraction and town should not abide a distraction taking hold of the thread

What is my view of you? I'm not even sure I've got a read on you yet, but I do have a view. I'll tell you about it after you tell me what you think it is.

I believe the initial communications were a distraction, yes, put there for color. Whether the subsequent ones are relevant, no idea yet.

8. Apples and oranges. My read on Galron is not related to "this sort of question" in the sense you seem to think it is. The only relation it has to that question is that in the wording of that question, Galron TMIs that I am town.

That took a while to write because Rousseau is obfuscating the issue with the formatting and misquoting the actual content of the quotes because it's coming from memory^

now it just looks to me like your point is,

is tmi because 'town' instead of 'town!kyouko'

which, uh, shrug

what's the rest of the reasoning as to why galron is a scums?

shortly thereafter he says he doesn't have a read on me yet, which is in contradiction with him calling me town in his question to DGB. I think this further indicates that calling me town was a slip and he's backtracking to cover it up.
I also haven't seen anything since then to convince me he's townie or solving.
Furthermore, the way he says he "leaned in" to your meme question about the triangle of being annoyed between Tetrina, you, and him, makes me think he's having trouble engaging in general and is "leaning in" to try to force some involvement. Describing it as leaning in reveals that he is aware he is detached, and it feels like something scum would do: Open up about what they're actually feeling in a game to appear genuine and therefore townie.

Hmm...

Roden, what's your opinion on Galron? Do you think he could be scum? You seemed to be talking like he could be earlier, but then this...

VOTE: Galron

Does Galron still fit into the equation if both Infinity and Gamma are town? I'm back and forth on Gamma but I think Infinity backed up everything she said about her TR on Gamma with some pretty detailed receipts.

This kind of made me think otherwise.
UNVOTE:

VOTE: Pooky

That readlist of the communicaters comes from scum I think. Scum know who the scum NPC is. This is Pooky leading Town into deception.

???

@callers,

Think it was asked already, but do you know if there is any material benefit if we or you can identify the scum caller?

So you think pooky is scum and telling us to listen to the scum caller, who is...?

My argument on you was not the same thing over and over yesterday. I've included my takes on you and my interactions with you in that spoiler^. I spent several IRL days prodding at Gamma re:Infinity to build that case, and in the end I was satisfied with his responses, so I didn't go back to the case, no, instead I formed a TR on him. This should all be clear if you were paying attention to me on D1, and if you weren't paying attention, I would expect town to do some homework before their vote, unless they were just sheeping, and you said that wasn't the case.

VOTE: Galron

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Yeah, it's pretty much the same argument you keep gong back to intertwined with what seems to be confbiasing. I was trying hard to townread you but it was like you just kept coming back to it for some reason. I'm glad you put all those posts in one place because it helps me kind of see what was going on, and you can see it yourself, everything pretty much has it roots in that tmi argument except for the pooky thing, but I owned that. And skitter has a really good point about that enchant vote that I hadn't noticed. You quoted that post by Roden. So I assume you did that because you think that slot is a scum slot? You had me, DGB and Infinity as a team positioned around you and I guess now you have me, S_S and House/Enchant?

And wrt your case on Gamma, the way you kept coming back to me, it doesn't seem like you're the type of player to make a big case on someone and just drop it so easily. You're carrying around these seeds of doubt about me, but Gamma, eh... he's alright. It's just doesn't feel right.

Sorry I don't have a tl;dr Pooky.

Do you think because you tried hard to TR me that I should have dropped my SR on you? I dont think I kept going back to it. As I recall, people kept asking me why I was SRing you or asking me to clarify my SR on you and I had to explain it and repeat it because others wanted to understand. I didnt sit there repeating the same point on you unprompted.

You didnt read everything or are intentionally ignoring some of it if you think "everything" except the Pooky thing is tied to the TMI.

What point of skitters? Which post of Roden's did I quote? I did think Roden was scummy before S_S replaced in and I got town vibes from S_S. I've gone over this. You're clearly not actually reading what I'm posting, so yes, wagons on us would be good right now

I think Gamma is town. I felt like his reaction to my case was good and that his view on the gamestate (all the active.posters are town) was coming from a town POV because I was reaching the same conclusion. He lead us toward the scum elim with that and I dont think it was a bus.

On the other hand, as was stated in the spoiler containing my D1 on you, you did not convince me you were town after I suspected and started to push you.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Really enjoying how Skitter30 kinda stays out of things, it could easily be seen as scum but I see it as town.
Not many mishaps from them, though I would like to ask, no disrespect to you,
but could you dumb down a bit on why you're going for ssbm?
~Fleet

Heya fleet
My issue is that ssbm basically had no read on enchant's slot, seemed to be scumreading ss, but then randomlu switched to enchant and i dont know why

It somewhat looks like she wanted to get on the scum wagon so just switched

It's nit like she was scumreading enchant or anything

But you do see now that I SRed Roden and began to TR S_S on replace-in? And that before then I was thinking scum were in the inactive posters (Roden/House), so it's not really random either.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I was more focused on S_S because I was SRing Roden when he replaced out, and I felt like the wagon on House was garbage. There wasn't any evidence to it and it felt kind of out of the blue, so initially I held off on voting enchant because of my bias against the previous House wagon. After seeing what Enchant claimed and what S_S said about preferring not to claim though, combined with the town vibes I was getting from S_S, and seeing what others were posting about Enchant and his responses, it was clear he'd given up. I wasn't sure if it was given up town or scum, but he seemed like a solid elimination regardless of his alignment. Not the town you want in ELO, as he could be easily mislimmed.

There wasnt anything to read on House really, his iso was like 2-3 posts maybe?, and I was probably more focused on Gamma or another active player at the time he was a hot topic. After I started to come around on Gamma though I'd gone through a lot of players and had a lot of people as either town or out of the poe, and it became increasingly likely to me that scum was in the lurkers, House and Roden.

You could probably say the same thing about me and House to half the playerlist wrt there being not much there. Nobody else defended the wagon I dont think, except maybe lightly, but to me it looked like some lazy votes on House that were there to distract from someone else. And nobody else was speaking up about how bad the wagon was. Pooky and Gamma will recall how hard I defended scum (KittyTacky) on D1 of owners market blitz. Sometimes I'm just wrong.

So you're basically saying that you didnt want to flip ss and felt enchant was an ok compromise?
Can you elaborate on what townie things you were seeing from ss post replacement?

Like i guess my problem here is that you sort of switched how you were reading each slot at a *convenient* time
Like i said in my last post it somewhat looks like you switched fo make sure you were on the scumwagon

Also flipping people day1 because you dont want them in elo seems dubious to me

Also i think its possible to have gotten a read on House feom his 3 posts (i did), so i'm kindaa curious how you have such a steadfastedly strong null read (and defended his nullness a few times) when other people have had reads on him and have talked abt him. Like yeah he only had a handful of posts but you cant just handwave away the ai-ness of them because his iso was short

Also given how *null* you're reading him you seem to remember a lot abt him/his wagon/what was going on at the time of his wagon, which is a bit weird to me. Like idk i dont remember anything abt gamma being a hot topic while house was, but i feel like a partner probably would

Also the wagon wasnt really bad, his handful of posts was sketchy and he was scum

No, I was working between those 2 slots and started leaning more towards town on S_S. I would have hammered S_S before deadline if my vote was needed to resolve a deadlock (it wouldnt be because of plurality, but assuming we didnt have plurality, I would have) and

that

would have been a compromise for me. I cant elaborate on vibes, no. I have posted what little reasoning there was behind my vibes. Search my iso for 'measured' and for 'heh' to find relevant posts. Or just read it instead of ctrl-F'ing for names, because you've already missed a lot that way.

I didn't ever ISO house until well after he replaced out. He posted something game-related once and then made 1-2 posts about how he couldn't keep up and then replaced out. I think it was a waste of time to focus on him when he was so absent from the game, and I was preoccupied with other avenues. I had scumreads I was sorting the whole game until I got to the point where I realized "hey, everyone that's posting seems pretty towny, maybe it's time to lim a lurker" and started by ISOing Roden because I recalled him having content. I scumread him from that and started pushing.

I remember because I'm the one that was pushing Gamma, and I have a decent memory for the content of posts but not always for the relative timeline. I think actually Gamma came after Galron, who came after House? Possibly before? I was looking at VCs the other day and remember House and Galron wagons were back to back, just not sure which was first.

I explained why the wagon was bad back around 968(not sure if that was the exact post number). Nobody posted reasoning, except Tetrina, and hers was pretty weak. She was right, but it was weak. The fact he flipped scum doesnt make that wagon any less bad.

Spoiler:

Actually I dont think Roden's answer is going to change my mind

VOTE: Roden

I'm feeling inspired

Game is starting to feel, like Gamma was saying, like the active posters are all town. I went back to reread RVS because that's where I tend to be best at catching scum and think Roden could be scum from the first 10ish pages

ok well my readrate on skitt is 100% besides perpetual melo so there

VOTE: ceph

That's a funny way to spell Roden

Whenever Infinity hasn't been pushing skitter she's fallen back to Ceph. Once in the beginning, and now again. Mostly she's just voting skitter and mediating other discussions though. Recently she said she's ready to basically just defend townreads and jump on the biggest wagon that isn't on her townreads. In the same post she says she'd like to sort Roden or cephrir if they're around. Ceph

has

been around though, and she's had the time to sort him since early today when she made the effort to get away from the skitter push. So it doesnt track to me that she's still looking to vote him over Roden right now. Especially when she seemed receptive to voting Roden until he became an actual wagon.

Highly suspicious

Fwiw I think if you read cephrir's iso that infinity's point falls apart rather easily. Maybe I'm being too easy in TRing ceph though.

hi! the rescuers (morning tweet iso) if you'd be so kind

Okay, I read them. Was there any information given about who's controlling them?

Presumably it's not MT, since this wasn't listed as a bastard game.

Tetrina told us she was invited to this game by MT and that she plays irl. I believe based on the description of the players that are controlling the callers it is possible that the 5 callers also know MT irl and possibly are from the same player group as Tetrina.

in my experience when there's 2 leading wagons and neither of the 2 have any solid/real read on the other wagon its probly just S/S

They both just repped in, though generally I'd agree. Enchant should at least be able to read S_S via Roden though

VOTE: enchant

E-1 I think

These are all the times you mention the ss/roden sloy and/or interact with it between the roden vote and the enchant vote, unless i missed something

So, uh, where did the townvibes even happen

Like you're explaining your votes with a lot of trajectory that there's no evidende for itt

I was gonna grab you quotes but just search me for 'heh' and 'measured', and maybe read the part of my iso around the dueling wagons and combine it with S_S so you can see where I'm responding to him

[ssbm_Kyouko]

S_S can you explain reads on any of those 4 players?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Cuz that whole poe looks town to me, maybe an outside chance of Infinity scum

[ssbm_Kyouko]

in my experience when there's 2 leading wagons and neither of the 2 have any solid/real read on the other wagon its probly just S/S

They both just repped in, though generally I'd agree.

Enchant should at least be able to read S_S via Roden though

Here it is, literally in the post immediately before I voted Enchant.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

oh there are a lot more posts. 2542 is a response to Skitter:

Heh, the only game I remember from way back I was also scum (and you were town). Maybe though.

@_@

enchant posting like that makes my heart say “town” but i am trying to ignore it

^ agree with the town vibes tbh. Feels like he never got into the game and tbh doesnt care abt getting flipped, and isnt going to put in effort for this anymore

@ssbm o tried to respond to the most pressing/immediate things, but if there's something i owe you please requote it so i can address it

you dont owe me anything no, I just remember when I put Enchant on E-1 there were a few things to wait on: a claim, a transmission, and for you to finish responding to anything you had to sidebar during VLA. I just wanted to make sure you were done before Enchant is hammered because I'm not keeping tabs on everything that everyone wants to know from you specifically.

Also I dont think scum!S_S says "heh" here. Its weak af but he's really stiff as scum I think. Not gonna hang my hat on this but for toDay I much prefer Enchant over S_S.

@rousseau I'll take a look

@ssbm this + ss's 'heh' post was well after you switched to enchant, like 300 posts later, so i'm not sure why it's relevant for that part of the game. were you already getting townvibes from ss when you switched to voting enchant

like i want to know why you wanted enchant more than ss *at the time you voted for enchant*

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I think Galron is just scum here?

are we sure skitter isn't scum

her case on ssbm is pretty bad

I guess I disagree on this. We're three days deep into this phase, and no one's come up with a good argument, and of those that we have hers makes the most sense. What are your issues with it?

Also, what about kyouko? You indicated that she and I are t/t, but what am I missing wrt her positioning back to me and not gamma? I know my deal on kyouko is kinda weak,

but she asked if I was just sheeping skitter, and I was just spewing what I had been thinking about the past few days about her argument wrt me

. So I'm not going to exactly just let it go without some sort of vetting.

VOTE: ssbm_kyouko
So the bold, imo, is just a lie. Yes I asked if he was just sheeping skitter, but no, he was not spewing about my argument wrt him, unless I didn't go back far enough?

Skitter's making sense.

Is that the only reason you're voting me?

VOTE: ssbm_kyouko

Skitter's making sense.

Is that the only reason you're voting me?

Actually no. I'm considering the argument you kept making on me yesterday, which was the same thing over and over, and you laid out a long argument on Gamma but never followed up or got back to it. It's just sus. And skitter does make good points here.

I asked in 2356 if his vote was a sheep on skitter, because "skitter makes a good point" sure sounds like it's just sheeping. In response to me asking that question (after, not before), he provides the following bold response

VOTE: ssbm_kyouko

Skitter's making sense.

Is that the only reason you're voting me?

Actually no. I'm considering the argument you kept making on me yesterday, which was the same thing over and over, and you laid out a long argument on Gamma but never followed up or got back to it.

It's just sus. And skitter does make good points here.

Spoiler: My D1 on Galron

VOTE: skitter30

Does a scum!Skitter spend this much effort trying to build a case on town on day 1 of a phase when it's likely any wagon there is likely to break up?

I think skitter is probably town and this (and DGB's vote on skitter) are giving me alarm bells.

Feels like TMI, but if it is TMI, it seems like the intent is to make light of the wagon on skitter indirectly ("it's likely any wagon there is likely to break up"). I say it seems like TMI because Galron has been talking to me as though I'm null or scummy to this point, most of his posting is about how the callers are a distraction iirc. That makes me think he would see me as scummy for bringing the focus there. But he asks his hypothetical as though he knows I'm town. This doesn't align.

VOTE: Galron

It remains to be seen if this is WKing or just defending a buddy but I think Skitter has behaved well since voting me and since I voted her.

it kiiiiinda feels like you're digging in your heels and i don't get it

Do you think scumFinity does that here?

I've had the same inkling and it grows stronger the longer the skitter-infinty discussion goes on. It seems white-knighty, I'm kinda thinking a Galron, DGB, Infinity team rn. Possible theater between them and they're all sort of distanced by positioning differently around skitter and I.

Pedit: not sure if launch was a typo but if it was that word is recently banned, and if it wasn't you should probably use a word less similar like yeet

I like most of ydrasse's list, feels pretty close to my thoughts so far, at the very least it reinforces for me that she's town even if we're both wrong.

Mine goes:
Townread: Rousseau, Ydrasse
Townlean: Skitter, Cephrir,
Nulltown: Tetrina
Null: Gamma, Pooky, House
Nullscum: Roden, DGB
Scumlean: Galron
Scumread: Infinity

House truly null, Gamma and Pooky in null because they've both done things that are lightly towny and lightly scummy, and to me they feel balanced out.

Roden I expect to have heard more from by now, but it hasn't been long so this could fluctuate quickly.

Galron's reaction to being voted feels like unconcerned town to me, but this is easy to fake as scum. This lifts him out of the scumread tier to a scumlean for me.

In Infinity's discussion with skitter, I really felt like I was being white knighted at first. I didnt say anything because I wanted to see how long it would go on, and it seemed to me that any push on skitter there was heavily tied to defending me. I'm going to reread this and see what I think today though.

It has skitter, I want to consolidate with skitter or ydrasse, and both the players they're voting are my bottom 3 with Galron

Okay why are DGB and galron in your bottom 3 reads?

It's already explained in my readslist.

Galron I think should have a different view of me based on his stance around the communications from the callers. He said they're a distraction and town should not abide a distraction taking hold of the thread

DGB's skitter vote bugged me as potentially opportunistic and there's also something that looks like theater going on between it and Galron

Infinity is white knighting me and also has what feel like forced interactions with galron.

The three of them are sort of positioned "around" skitter vs me, which could be distancing between Galron and DGB/Infinity on opposite sides.

Gamma what's your read on infinity now then if you're not

necessarily

going to reread her and skitter?

Galron I think should have a different view of me based on his stance around the communications from the callers. He said they're a distraction and town should not abide a distraction taking hold of the thread

What is my view of you? I'm not even sure I've got a read on you yet, but I do have a view. I'll tell you about it after you tell me what you think it is.

I believe the initial communications were a distraction, yes, put there for color. Whether the subsequent ones are relevant, no idea yet.

I think you, as town, should be annoyed by me posting about the callers if you really think they are a distraction. I would expect that to color your read on me.

Pedit: nice job Galron, you've stopped tweetie

Also Galron, in 490, who are you about to sheep? What is "the call on cephrir" and who made it? It seems from context it's meant to be me but I'm leaning town on him

This is going to feed into paranoia that I'm buddies with Galron but I do town read him.

why?

DGB's skitter vote bugged me as potentially opportunistic and there's also something that looks like theater going on between it and Galron

Infinity is white knighting me and also has what feel like forced interactions with galron.

The three of them are sort of positioned "around" skitter vs me, which could be distancing between Galron and DGB/Infinity on opposite sides.

It seems like you're answering "why does this feed into paranoia that you are partners with Galron", but I think ydrasse is asking "why do you tr Galron" - maybe I'm wrong in that, but if she wasn't asking that, I'll ask it, because I'd like to know.

"why do you tr Galron"

His giddiness jumps right off the page, maybe he has a big fat PR

I don't know if I recognize the giddiness in rereading his ISO. maybe in recent posting it's not as flat as it started, but I wouldn't say giddy. Where does it jump out for you, in what posts?

I’m not sold on Cephrir!town but I don’t like the way you or Galron entered the thread after kyouko called you town partners with Infinity

I missed this. Where?

Okay why are DGB and galron in your bottom 3 reads?

It's already explained in my readslist.

Galron I think should have a different view of me based on his stance around the communications from the callers. He said they're a distraction and town should not abide a distraction taking hold of the thread

DGB's skitter vote bugged me as potentially opportunistic and there's also something that looks like theater going on between it and Galron

Infinity is white knighting me and also has what feel like forced interactions with galron.

The three of them are sort of positioned "around" skitter vs me, which could be distancing between Galron and DGB/Infinity on opposite sides.

For some reason I read Gamma's post as Kyouko calling Infinity and me town partners, and that threw me off. Thanks for pointing that out.

I wonder if this threw Galron off because Galron is partnered with Infinity, and he didnt understand why he was being called a town partner with her, rather than a scum partner

VOTE: Galron

Roden, what do you think of DGB and Galron as individuals? Separate from which wagon has more resistance

I wonder if this threw Galron off because Galron is partnered with Infinity, and he didnt understand why he was being called a town partner with her, rather than a scum partner

VOTE: Galron

a) dislike this reasoning, i also thought gamma had written 'town partners'
b) don't want galron to be on e2

I’m not sold on Cephrir!town but I don’t like the way you or Galron entered the thread after kyouko called you town partners with Infinity

Here's Gamma's post. Without the context of the typo, it is ambiguous whether he is using the plural or the singular you, and since the first use of you in the post is singular ( and is addressed at Galron) it is easily read that way from his point of view.

Gamma did write town partners, but it's not wrong to interpret it the way I think he might have.

Okay not literally a joke, but the implication was that because tetrina pointed to you and you to Galron, that he should point to tetrina. Obviously that's not a serious train of thought, like you were just memeing out, but he responded as though it were serious

VOTE: Galron

third times the charm?

can you explain to me the issue with

'do you think scum!player (where player is not the one speaking or being spoken to) would do this:'

as that seems to be the basis for your galron read as well as for your gamma emerald case

It's not the basis for my Galron read, I don't know if that's even a point I've made against Galron. Maybe you mean my comment on the way that Gamma moved from Galron to DGB? That is equity with scum!Gamma that comes from Gamma's side and isn't AI for Galron unless Gamma flips red. It makes me feel better that there is equity between my scumreads, but I'm not scumreading Galron

because

of Gamma.

I wouldn't call it the

basis

for my Gamma case, but that's possibly a matter of perception. It is the

reason

I tried to trap him around an infinity partner read. I think his behavior around her, and hers around him, are suspicious, but I don't think there is interest in eliminating him today.

The reason it pinged me in the first place is this - it is a tell specific to Gamma:
"Will ask the general playerbase how they feel about his partner to either a) remove them from people's minds to eliminate or b) know the time is right to bus them
Source: viewtopic.php?p=12881030#p12881030 (Large 233)"
(from Gamma's scumtells in a notes file I keep on my PC)

It's not the basis for my Galron read, I don't know if that's even a point I've made against Galron.

this was the first time you voted for galron:

VOTE: skitter30

Does a scum!Skitter spend this much effort trying to build a case on town on day 1 of a phase when it's likely any wagon there is likely to break up?

I think skitter is probably town and this (and DGB's vote on skitter) are giving me alarm bells.

Feels like TMI, but if it is TMI, it seems like the intent is to make light of the wagon on skitter indirectly ("it's likely any wagon there is likely to break up"). I say it seems like TMI because Galron has been talking to me as though I'm null or scummy to this point, most of his posting is about how the callers are a distraction iirc. That makes me think he would see me as scummy for bringing the focus there. But he asks his hypothetical as though he knows I'm town. This doesn't align.

VOTE: Galron

It remains to be seen if this is WKing or just defending a buddy but I think Skitter has behaved well since voting me and since I voted her.

The first halves of the sentences are the same but you're comparing apples to oranges. It's right in that post that I think Galron is TMIing me as town. In Gamma's 321 I suspected that scum!Gamma was testing the waters to see if he would need to bus scum!Infinity

The first halves of the sentences are the same but you're comparing apples to oranges. It's right in that post that I think Galron is TMIing me as town. In Gamma's 321 I suspected that scum!Gamma was testing the waters to see if he would need to bus scum!Infinity

right but the tmiing you as town would be on account of asking you if scum!skitter would do x and that doesn't seem to be implied to me so i am asking the issue with this general type of question as it also stood out to you elsewhere

unless you think simply assuming that scum!skitter wouldn't be pushing scum!you in that situation is tmi? because that feels ??? to me

I think you might need to reread the posts more closely as there are a couple of problems with what you're describing.

Galron is addressing DGB in response to it voting Skitter.
Galron says, to DGB, does scum!Skitter push town [Kyouko] like this?
I identify this (Galron referring to me as town) feels TMI to me because so far I have felt that Galron viewed me as null or scummy, and that if anything, he should have a negative view of me because he sees the discussion about the callers as distracting.

Galron is addressing DGB in response to it voting Skitter.
Galron says, to DGB, does scum!Skitter push town [Kyouko] like this?
I identify this (Galron referring to me as town) feels TMI to me because so far I have felt that Galron viewed me as null or scummy, and that if anything, he should have a negative view of me because he sees the discussion about the callers as distracting.

1.

yeah first you meant not to be there

but asking

2.

do you think scum!skitter does pushes you like this as town?

3.

does not imply that you are town? like you are answering the question for drippinggoofball as 'yes' in order to conclude that

4.

galron was tmiing you as town?

5.

whereas asking 'do you think scum!skitter pushes a wagon likely to fall apart like this?'

6.

to me implies that galron thinks it is not super likely but is asking drippinggoofball for their opinion

7.

and thus if not likely that galron thinks scum!skitter would do this, that implies galron thinks more likely town!skitter, thus not inconsistent with earlier interactions with you

8.

so i am asking why this sort of question means that to you

1. I'm thinking this is a reference to a typo, not sure. If it's important lmk.
2. This is the exact question that was asked, with the green inserted by me for clarity, because the wording in your post is unclear:

VOTE: skitter30

Does a scum!Skitter spend this much effort trying to build a case on town

[Kyouko]

on day 1 of a phase when it's likely any wagon there is likely to break up?

3. I am the player that Skitter was spending effort in trying to build a case on, so yes, it does imply that I am town. If DGB had answered yes, it would follow that DGB also concedes that I am town for the purposes of answering the question. I have drawn no conclusions about anyone, including DGB, from a made-up answer to this question. I

have

drawn conlcusions about Galron based on the wording he used in his own question. He chose those words.

4. Galron

is

slipping that he thinks I am town here. If he were not, he would have worded the question differently.
5. <nothing to respond to>
6. I don't disagree with your conclusion here. This, however, has nothing to do with Galron TMIing me as town. If he was posing the question as though I were town, he would have said "town!Kyouko", instead of "town", because he did use "scum!Skitter" as a hypothetical.
7. Galron's read on skitter is not what is inconsistent. What is inconsistent is that he sees the discussions about the callers as a distraction, but even though I have been very focused on the callers, he slips that I am town, when he hasn't mentioned anything of the sort before. In fact, later on, when I further clarify that the inconsistency on me is related to my focus on the callers, he claims he has no read on me yet, but he does have a view on me:

Galron I think should have a different view of me based on his stance around the communications from the callers. He said they're a distraction and town should not abide a distraction taking hold of the thread

What is my view of you? I'm not even sure I've got a read on you yet, but I do have a view. I'll tell you about it after you tell me what you think it is.

I believe the initial communications were a distraction, yes, put there for color. Whether the subsequent ones are relevant, no idea yet.

8. Apples and oranges. My read on Galron is not related to "this sort of question" in the sense you seem to think it is. The only relation it has to that question is that in the wording of that question, Galron TMIs that I am town.

That took a while to write because Rousseau is obfuscating the issue with the formatting and misquoting the actual content of the quotes because it's coming from memory^

now it just looks to me like your point is,

is tmi because 'town' instead of 'town!kyouko'

which, uh, shrug

what's the rest of the reasoning as to why galron is a scums?

shortly thereafter he says he doesn't have a read on me yet, which is in contradiction with him calling me town in his question to DGB. I think this further indicates that calling me town was a slip and he's backtracking to cover it up.
I also haven't seen anything since then to convince me he's townie or solving.
Furthermore, the way he says he "leaned in" to your meme question about the triangle of being annoyed between Tetrina, you, and him, makes me think he's having trouble engaging in general and is "leaning in" to try to force some involvement. Describing it as leaning in reveals that he is aware he is detached, and it feels like something scum would do: Open up about what they're actually feeling in a game to appear genuine and therefore townie.

Hmm...

Roden, what's your opinion on Galron? Do you think he could be scum? You seemed to be talking like he could be earlier, but then this...

VOTE: Galron

Does Galron still fit into the equation if both Infinity and Gamma are town? I'm back and forth on Gamma but I think Infinity backed up everything she said about her TR on Gamma with some pretty detailed receipts.

This kind of made me think otherwise.
UNVOTE:

VOTE: Pooky

That readlist of the communicaters comes from scum I think. Scum know who the scum NPC is. This is Pooky leading Town into deception.

???

@callers,

Think it was asked already, but do you know if there is any material benefit if we or you can identify the scum caller?

So you think pooky is scum and telling us to listen to the scum caller, who is...?

My argument on you was not the same thing over and over yesterday. I've included my takes on you and my interactions with you in that spoiler^. I spent several IRL days prodding at Gamma re:Infinity to build that case, and in the end I was satisfied with his responses, so I didn't go back to the case, no, instead I formed a TR on him. This should all be clear if you were paying attention to me on D1, and if you weren't paying attention, I would expect town to do some homework before their vote, unless they were just sheeping, and you said that wasn't the case.

VOTE: Galron

I go on to show that I was not just repeating the case on him over and over yesterDay and explain why Gamma's case I dropped, but his I did not. Then I imply he is scum because he did not do his homework for a vote that he has claimed is not a sheep vote.

Below, we have the interactions between Galron and I, and his thoughts on me, from the start of D1:

You feel less measured here, and I feel like as scum you like to bring attention to your playstyle. It could be you bring attention to your town and scum playstyles matching as either alignment since I haven't played with town!S_S.

A lot of his posts are about him though. so how is he different this game?

btw who else noticed Rousseau's soft? Curious as to how likely it is that it went unnoticed. Cephrir would of course have seen because it was addressed at him, and I know I saw it on my first read, so it was probably noticeable, but idk how noticeable it really was.

I didn't and am kind of confused as to that comment about how it was directed more at cephrir than to me.

Galron responds to 2 of my posts, and I think it's fair to assume from his tone he is not SRing me at this point, but maybe this is incorrect. Certainly if he has 2 strong scumreads, Gamaa and I, at the end of D1, I would expect it to be evident in his posting towards me that he scumreads me. If he does scumread me here, he is hiding it well.

You feel less measured here

, and I feel like as scum you like to bring attention to your playstyle. It could be you bring attention to your town and scum playstyles matching as either alignment since I haven't played with town!S_S.

A lot of his posts are about him though. so how is he different this game?

bolded

So this response, imo, was already out there for him. I feel like it's not difficult to understand 2287. I say in that post that it could be that the second point is NAI (in more words). That means the first point is what tells me he's town.

btw who else noticed Rousseau's soft? Curious as to how likely it is that it went unnoticed. Cephrir would of course have seen because it was addressed at him, and I know I saw it on my first read, so it was probably noticeable, but idk how noticeable it really was.

I didn't and am kind of confused as to that comment about how it was directed more at cephrir than to me.

I just couldn't remember if rousseau directed the comment at you or Cephrir off the top of my head, and didnt want to go back to check. She was directing at Cephrir.

This is just my response to his other interaction with me. not indicative of Galron's alignment or his read on me I don't think.

Skitter- pushed me and defended Enchant in a way that would probably draw more attention than she would like
Pooky- was calling me scum and could have hammered me but didn't
Ceph- switched off of me to Enchant and admitted seeing rousseau's crumb
DGB- weird contrary reads and self-destructive play
Ydrasse- switched off of me to Enchant
Galron- 1823

What don't you think is townie about Tetrina or kyouko?

2305 is S_S's readslist which was originally in

Spoiler: this post.

Uh, something like

Skitter, Pooky, Ceph, DGB
Ydrasse, Galron
Everyone else

I think from this post it is clear that at this point Galron has a problem with S_S not saying that Tetrina and I are town, which heavily implies he thinks we both are town, unless he thinks we are both scum, in which case I think it would be unnatural to phrase the question in the way he did, and instead he would have said "Do you think Tetrina and Kyouko are scum?" or "What do you think of Tetrina and Kyouko?", if Galron had one or both of us in null and wondered if S_S might also.

That last post is the most convincing evidence that Galron was lying about scumreading me at the end of D1/start of D2. It is also evident that he was not, in his exact words,

"just spewing what I had been thinking about the past few days about her argument wrt me"

, when I asked him if he was sheeping skitter. He didn't start doing any of that until after I asked him if he was sheeping. Skitter is probably town here because it would just be bad to double up and hardpush me if skitter/Galron were teamed, so I think Galron is taking advantage of Skitter's tunnel, gets caught sheeping, and when pressured about his vote on me, lies about the reason he is voting me because he doesn't want to look bad for just sheeping.

Nothing would have been wrong with just sheeping skitter, but Galron didn't own that and tried to say he was voting me for actual reasons, and it's clear they were made up after the fact.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I think Galron is just scum here?

are we sure skitter isn't scum

her case on ssbm is pretty bad

I guess I disagree on this. We're three days deep into this phase, and no one's come up with a good argument, and of those that we have hers makes the most sense. What are your issues with it?

Also, what about kyouko? You indicated that she and I are t/t, but what am I missing wrt her positioning back to me and not gamma? I know my deal on kyouko is kinda weak,

but she asked if I was just sheeping skitter, and I was just spewing what I had been thinking about the past few days about her argument wrt me

. So I'm not going to exactly just let it go without some sort of vetting.

EBWOP: The rest of this post is going to demonstrate that the bolded statement is a lie. This green text is all that was edited.

VOTE: ssbm_kyouko
So the bold, imo, is just a lie. Yes I asked if he was just sheeping skitter, but no, he was not spewing about my argument wrt him, unless I didn't go back far enough?

Skitter's making sense.

Is that the only reason you're voting me?

VOTE: ssbm_kyouko

Skitter's making sense.

Is that the only reason you're voting me?

Actually no. I'm considering the argument you kept making on me yesterday, which was the same thing over and over, and you laid out a long argument on Gamma but never followed up or got back to it. It's just sus. And skitter does make good points here.

I asked in 2356 if his vote was a sheep on skitter, because "skitter makes a good point" sure sounds like it's just sheeping. In response to me asking that question (after, not before), he provides the following bold response

VOTE: ssbm_kyouko

Skitter's making sense.

Is that the only reason you're voting me?

Actually no. I'm considering the argument you kept making on me yesterday, which was the same thing over and over, and you laid out a long argument on Gamma but never followed up or got back to it.

It's just sus. And skitter does make good points here.

Spoiler: My D1 on Galron

VOTE: skitter30

Does a scum!Skitter spend this much effort trying to build a case on town on day 1 of a phase when it's likely any wagon there is likely to break up?

I think skitter is probably town and this (and DGB's vote on skitter) are giving me alarm bells.

Feels like TMI, but if it is TMI, it seems like the intent is to make light of the wagon on skitter indirectly ("it's likely any wagon there is likely to break up"). I say it seems like TMI because Galron has been talking to me as though I'm null or scummy to this point, most of his posting is about how the callers are a distraction iirc. That makes me think he would see me as scummy for bringing the focus there. But he asks his hypothetical as though he knows I'm town. This doesn't align.

VOTE: Galron

It remains to be seen if this is WKing or just defending a buddy but I think Skitter has behaved well since voting me and since I voted her.

it kiiiiinda feels like you're digging in your heels and i don't get it

Do you think scumFinity does that here?

I've had the same inkling and it grows stronger the longer the skitter-infinty discussion goes on. It seems white-knighty, I'm kinda thinking a Galron, DGB, Infinity team rn. Possible theater between them and they're all sort of distanced by positioning differently around skitter and I.

Pedit: not sure if launch was a typo but if it was that word is recently banned, and if it wasn't you should probably use a word less similar like yeet

I like most of ydrasse's list, feels pretty close to my thoughts so far, at the very least it reinforces for me that she's town even if we're both wrong.

Mine goes:
Townread: Rousseau, Ydrasse
Townlean: Skitter, Cephrir,
Nulltown: Tetrina
Null: Gamma, Pooky, House
Nullscum: Roden, DGB
Scumlean: Galron
Scumread: Infinity

House truly null, Gamma and Pooky in null because they've both done things that are lightly towny and lightly scummy, and to me they feel balanced out.

Roden I expect to have heard more from by now, but it hasn't been long so this could fluctuate quickly.

Galron's reaction to being voted feels like unconcerned town to me, but this is easy to fake as scum. This lifts him out of the scumread tier to a scumlean for me.

In Infinity's discussion with skitter, I really felt like I was being white knighted at first. I didnt say anything because I wanted to see how long it would go on, and it seemed to me that any push on skitter there was heavily tied to defending me. I'm going to reread this and see what I think today though.

It has skitter, I want to consolidate with skitter or ydrasse, and both the players they're voting are my bottom 3 with Galron

Okay why are DGB and galron in your bottom 3 reads?

It's already explained in my readslist.

Galron I think should have a different view of me based on his stance around the communications from the callers. He said they're a distraction and town should not abide a distraction taking hold of the thread

DGB's skitter vote bugged me as potentially opportunistic and there's also something that looks like theater going on between it and Galron

Infinity is white knighting me and also has what feel like forced interactions with galron.

The three of them are sort of positioned "around" skitter vs me, which could be distancing between Galron and DGB/Infinity on opposite sides.

Gamma what's your read on infinity now then if you're not

necessarily

going to reread her and skitter?

Galron I think should have a different view of me based on his stance around the communications from the callers. He said they're a distraction and town should not abide a distraction taking hold of the thread

What is my view of you? I'm not even sure I've got a read on you yet, but I do have a view. I'll tell you about it after you tell me what you think it is.

I believe the initial communications were a distraction, yes, put there for color. Whether the subsequent ones are relevant, no idea yet.

I think you, as town, should be annoyed by me posting about the callers if you really think they are a distraction. I would expect that to color your read on me.

Pedit: nice job Galron, you've stopped tweetie

Also Galron, in 490, who are you about to sheep? What is "the call on cephrir" and who made it? It seems from context it's meant to be me but I'm leaning town on him

This is going to feed into paranoia that I'm buddies with Galron but I do town read him.

why?

DGB's skitter vote bugged me as potentially opportunistic and there's also something that looks like theater going on between it and Galron

Infinity is white knighting me and also has what feel like forced interactions with galron.

The three of them are sort of positioned "around" skitter vs me, which could be distancing between Galron and DGB/Infinity on opposite sides.

It seems like you're answering "why does this feed into paranoia that you are partners with Galron", but I think ydrasse is asking "why do you tr Galron" - maybe I'm wrong in that, but if she wasn't asking that, I'll ask it, because I'd like to know.

"why do you tr Galron"

His giddiness jumps right off the page, maybe he has a big fat PR

I don't know if I recognize the giddiness in rereading his ISO. maybe in recent posting it's not as flat as it started, but I wouldn't say giddy. Where does it jump out for you, in what posts?

I’m not sold on Cephrir!town but I don’t like the way you or Galron entered the thread after kyouko called you town partners with Infinity

I missed this. Where?

Okay why are DGB and galron in your bottom 3 reads?

It's already explained in my readslist.

Galron I think should have a different view of me based on his stance around the communications from the callers. He said they're a distraction and town should not abide a distraction taking hold of the thread

DGB's skitter vote bugged me as potentially opportunistic and there's also something that looks like theater going on between it and Galron

Infinity is white knighting me and also has what feel like forced interactions with galron.

The three of them are sort of positioned "around" skitter vs me, which could be distancing between Galron and DGB/Infinity on opposite sides.

For some reason I read Gamma's post as Kyouko calling Infinity and me town partners, and that threw me off. Thanks for pointing that out.

I wonder if this threw Galron off because Galron is partnered with Infinity, and he didnt understand why he was being called a town partner with her, rather than a scum partner

VOTE: Galron

Roden, what do you think of DGB and Galron as individuals? Separate from which wagon has more resistance

I wonder if this threw Galron off because Galron is partnered with Infinity, and he didnt understand why he was being called a town partner with her, rather than a scum partner

VOTE: Galron

a) dislike this reasoning, i also thought gamma had written 'town partners'
b) don't want galron to be on e2

I’m not sold on Cephrir!town but I don’t like the way you or Galron entered the thread after kyouko called you town partners with Infinity

Here's Gamma's post. Without the context of the typo, it is ambiguous whether he is using the plural or the singular you, and since the first use of you in the post is singular ( and is addressed at Galron) it is easily read that way from his point of view.

Gamma did write town partners, but it's not wrong to interpret it the way I think he might have.

Okay not literally a joke, but the implication was that because tetrina pointed to you and you to Galron, that he should point to tetrina. Obviously that's not a serious train of thought, like you were just memeing out, but he responded as though it were serious

VOTE: Galron

third times the charm?

can you explain to me the issue with

'do you think scum!player (where player is not the one speaking or being spoken to) would do this:'

as that seems to be the basis for your galron read as well as for your gamma emerald case

It's not the basis for my Galron read, I don't know if that's even a point I've made against Galron. Maybe you mean my comment on the way that Gamma moved from Galron to DGB? That is equity with scum!Gamma that comes from Gamma's side and isn't AI for Galron unless Gamma flips red. It makes me feel better that there is equity between my scumreads, but I'm not scumreading Galron

because

of Gamma.

I wouldn't call it the

basis

for my Gamma case, but that's possibly a matter of perception. It is the

reason

I tried to trap him around an infinity partner read. I think his behavior around her, and hers around him, are suspicious, but I don't think there is interest in eliminating him today.

The reason it pinged me in the first place is this - it is a tell specific to Gamma:
"Will ask the general playerbase how they feel about his partner to either a) remove them from people's minds to eliminate or b) know the time is right to bus them
Source: viewtopic.php?p=12881030#p12881030 (Large 233)"
(from Gamma's scumtells in a notes file I keep on my PC)

It's not the basis for my Galron read, I don't know if that's even a point I've made against Galron.

this was the first time you voted for galron:

VOTE: skitter30

Does a scum!Skitter spend this much effort trying to build a case on town on day 1 of a phase when it's likely any wagon there is likely to break up?

I think skitter is probably town and this (and DGB's vote on skitter) are giving me alarm bells.

Feels like TMI, but if it is TMI, it seems like the intent is to make light of the wagon on skitter indirectly ("it's likely any wagon there is likely to break up"). I say it seems like TMI because Galron has been talking to me as though I'm null or scummy to this point, most of his posting is about how the callers are a distraction iirc. That makes me think he would see me as scummy for bringing the focus there. But he asks his hypothetical as though he knows I'm town. This doesn't align.

VOTE: Galron

It remains to be seen if this is WKing or just defending a buddy but I think Skitter has behaved well since voting me and since I voted her.

The first halves of the sentences are the same but you're comparing apples to oranges. It's right in that post that I think Galron is TMIing me as town. In Gamma's 321 I suspected that scum!Gamma was testing the waters to see if he would need to bus scum!Infinity

The first halves of the sentences are the same but you're comparing apples to oranges. It's right in that post that I think Galron is TMIing me as town. In Gamma's 321 I suspected that scum!Gamma was testing the waters to see if he would need to bus scum!Infinity

right but the tmiing you as town would be on account of asking you if scum!skitter would do x and that doesn't seem to be implied to me so i am asking the issue with this general type of question as it also stood out to you elsewhere

unless you think simply assuming that scum!skitter wouldn't be pushing scum!you in that situation is tmi? because that feels ??? to me

I think you might need to reread the posts more closely as there are a couple of problems with what you're describing.

Galron is addressing DGB in response to it voting Skitter.
Galron says, to DGB, does scum!Skitter push town [Kyouko] like this?
I identify this (Galron referring to me as town) feels TMI to me because so far I have felt that Galron viewed me as null or scummy, and that if anything, he should have a negative view of me because he sees the discussion about the callers as distracting.

Galron is addressing DGB in response to it voting Skitter.
Galron says, to DGB, does scum!Skitter push town [Kyouko] like this?
I identify this (Galron referring to me as town) feels TMI to me because so far I have felt that Galron viewed me as null or scummy, and that if anything, he should have a negative view of me because he sees the discussion about the callers as distracting.

1.

yeah first you meant not to be there

but asking

2.

do you think scum!skitter does pushes you like this as town?

3.

does not imply that you are town? like you are answering the question for drippinggoofball as 'yes' in order to conclude that

4.

galron was tmiing you as town?

5.

whereas asking 'do you think scum!skitter pushes a wagon likely to fall apart like this?'

6.

to me implies that galron thinks it is not super likely but is asking drippinggoofball for their opinion

7.

and thus if not likely that galron thinks scum!skitter would do this, that implies galron thinks more likely town!skitter, thus not inconsistent with earlier interactions with you

8.

so i am asking why this sort of question means that to you

1. I'm thinking this is a reference to a typo, not sure. If it's important lmk.
2. This is the exact question that was asked, with the green inserted by me for clarity, because the wording in your post is unclear:

VOTE: skitter30

Does a scum!Skitter spend this much effort trying to build a case on town

[Kyouko]

on day 1 of a phase when it's likely any wagon there is likely to break up?

3. I am the player that Skitter was spending effort in trying to build a case on, so yes, it does imply that I am town. If DGB had answered yes, it would follow that DGB also concedes that I am town for the purposes of answering the question. I have drawn no conclusions about anyone, including DGB, from a made-up answer to this question. I

have

drawn conlcusions about Galron based on the wording he used in his own question. He chose those words.

4. Galron

is

slipping that he thinks I am town here. If he were not, he would have worded the question differently.
5. <nothing to respond to>
6. I don't disagree with your conclusion here. This, however, has nothing to do with Galron TMIing me as town. If he was posing the question as though I were town, he would have said "town!Kyouko", instead of "town", because he did use "scum!Skitter" as a hypothetical.
7. Galron's read on skitter is not what is inconsistent. What is inconsistent is that he sees the discussions about the callers as a distraction, but even though I have been very focused on the callers, he slips that I am town, when he hasn't mentioned anything of the sort before. In fact, later on, when I further clarify that the inconsistency on me is related to my focus on the callers, he claims he has no read on me yet, but he does have a view on me:

Galron I think should have a different view of me based on his stance around the communications from the callers. He said they're a distraction and town should not abide a distraction taking hold of the thread

What is my view of you? I'm not even sure I've got a read on you yet, but I do have a view. I'll tell you about it after you tell me what you think it is.

I believe the initial communications were a distraction, yes, put there for color. Whether the subsequent ones are relevant, no idea yet.

8. Apples and oranges. My read on Galron is not related to "this sort of question" in the sense you seem to think it is. The only relation it has to that question is that in the wording of that question, Galron TMIs that I am town.

That took a while to write because Rousseau is obfuscating the issue with the formatting and misquoting the actual content of the quotes because it's coming from memory^

now it just looks to me like your point is,

is tmi because 'town' instead of 'town!kyouko'

which, uh, shrug

what's the rest of the reasoning as to why galron is a scums?

shortly thereafter he says he doesn't have a read on me yet, which is in contradiction with him calling me town in his question to DGB. I think this further indicates that calling me town was a slip and he's backtracking to cover it up.
I also haven't seen anything since then to convince me he's townie or solving.
Furthermore, the way he says he "leaned in" to your meme question about the triangle of being annoyed between Tetrina, you, and him, makes me think he's having trouble engaging in general and is "leaning in" to try to force some involvement. Describing it as leaning in reveals that he is aware he is detached, and it feels like something scum would do: Open up about what they're actually feeling in a game to appear genuine and therefore townie.

Hmm...

Roden, what's your opinion on Galron? Do you think he could be scum? You seemed to be talking like he could be earlier, but then this...

VOTE: Galron

Does Galron still fit into the equation if both Infinity and Gamma are town? I'm back and forth on Gamma but I think Infinity backed up everything she said about her TR on Gamma with some pretty detailed receipts.

This kind of made me think otherwise.
UNVOTE:

VOTE: Pooky

That readlist of the communicaters comes from scum I think. Scum know who the scum NPC is. This is Pooky leading Town into deception.

???

@callers,

Think it was asked already, but do you know if there is any material benefit if we or you can identify the scum caller?

So you think pooky is scum and telling us to listen to the scum caller, who is...?

My argument on you was not the same thing over and over yesterday. I've included my takes on you and my interactions with you in that spoiler^. I spent several IRL days prodding at Gamma re:Infinity to build that case, and in the end I was satisfied with his responses, so I didn't go back to the case, no, instead I formed a TR on him. This should all be clear if you were paying attention to me on D1, and if you weren't paying attention, I would expect town to do some homework before their vote, unless they were just sheeping, and you said that wasn't the case.

VOTE: Galron

I go on to show that I was not just repeating the case on him over and over yesterDay and explain why Gamma's case I dropped, but his I did not. Then I imply he is scum because he did not do his homework for a vote that he has claimed is not a sheep vote.

Below, we have the interactions between Galron and I, and his thoughts on me, from the start of D1:

You feel less measured here, and I feel like as scum you like to bring attention to your playstyle. It could be you bring attention to your town and scum playstyles matching as either alignment since I haven't played with town!S_S.

A lot of his posts are about him though. so how is he different this game?

btw who else noticed Rousseau's soft? Curious as to how likely it is that it went unnoticed. Cephrir would of course have seen because it was addressed at him, and I know I saw it on my first read, so it was probably noticeable, but idk how noticeable it really was.

I didn't and am kind of confused as to that comment about how it was directed more at cephrir than to me.

Galron responds to 2 of my posts, and I think it's fair to assume from his tone he is not SRing me at this point, but maybe this is incorrect. Certainly if he has 2 strong scumreads, Gamaa and I, at the end of D1, I would expect it to be evident in his posting towards me that he scumreads me. If he does scumread me here, he is hiding it well.

You feel less measured here

, and I feel like as scum you like to bring attention to your playstyle. It could be you bring attention to your town and scum playstyles matching as either alignment since I haven't played with town!S_S.

A lot of his posts are about him though. so how is he different this game?

bolded

So this response, imo, was already out there for him. I feel like it's not difficult to understand 2287. I say in that post that it could be that the second point is NAI (in more words). That means the first point is what tells me he's town.

btw who else noticed Rousseau's soft? Curious as to how likely it is that it went unnoticed. Cephrir would of course have seen because it was addressed at him, and I know I saw it on my first read, so it was probably noticeable, but idk how noticeable it really was.

I didn't and am kind of confused as to that comment about how it was directed more at cephrir than to me.

I just couldn't remember if rousseau directed the comment at you or Cephrir off the top of my head, and didnt want to go back to check. She was directing at Cephrir.

This is just my response to his other interaction with me. not indicative of Galron's alignment or his read on me I don't think.

Skitter- pushed me and defended Enchant in a way that would probably draw more attention than she would like
Pooky- was calling me scum and could have hammered me but didn't
Ceph- switched off of me to Enchant and admitted seeing rousseau's crumb
DGB- weird contrary reads and self-destructive play
Ydrasse- switched off of me to Enchant
Galron- 1823

What don't you think is townie about Tetrina or kyouko?

2305 is S_S's readslist which was originally in

Spoiler: this post.

Uh, something like

Skitter, Pooky, Ceph, DGB
Ydrasse, Galron
Everyone else

I think from this post it is clear that at this point Galron has a problem with S_S not saying that Tetrina and I are town, which heavily implies he thinks we both are town, unless he thinks we are both scum, in which case I think it would be unnatural to phrase the question in the way he did, and instead he would have said "Do you think Tetrina and Kyouko are scum?" or "What do you think of Tetrina and Kyouko?", if Galron had one or both of us in null and wondered if S_S might also.

That last post is the most convincing evidence that Galron was lying about scumreading me at the end of D1/start of D2. It is also evident that he was not, in his exact words,

"just spewing what I had been thinking about the past few days about her argument wrt me"

, when I asked him if he was sheeping skitter. He didn't start doing any of that until after I asked him if he was sheeping. Skitter is probably town here because it would just be bad to double up and hardpush me if skitter/Galron were teamed, so I think Galron is taking advantage of Skitter's tunnel, gets caught sheeping, and when pressured about his vote on me, lies about the reason he is voting me because he doesn't want to look bad for just sheeping.

Nothing would have been wrong with just sheeping skitter, but Galron didn't own that and tried to say he was voting me for actual reasons, and it's clear they were made up after the fact.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Ssbm's push on Galron seems pretty impossible to follow... what I could get doesn't seem that convincing, though.

Does anyone else feel like it's hard to follow the reasoning? I thought it was pretty straightforward. Even though it seems most people dont

agree

with the reasoning, I assumed people were understanding.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

galron/skitter? :3

I doubt it could be both of them, why would they push for my elim so hard as a unit when in this situation S_S is an easy mislim

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I do think it's possible that just one of them (Galron) is scum taking advantage of the TvT though

[ssbm_Kyouko]

RE #2558 @ Galron Can I have a reasoning on the vote on Kyouko, please?

Locke, Even though others aren't seeing it, including some of your compatriots, I'm not going to give up on a scum read because of that. I unvoted her because I was overthinking it I thought, but then I reasoned that I gave up too easily. Her saying that I'm voting her not because I'm sheeping skitter but because of my own reasons is only partially true, and she seems to keep saying otherwise, that it's all because of the tmi argument that she laid on me Day 1. Then she says I'm lying about something else and uses what she said about Something Smart to back it, something about "You're more measured, and as scum your posts are self-focused" (paraphrasing) and I pointed out that his posts are self-focused this game so what is different this game. She referred me back to the "you're more measured" part. Well, I read what she originally wrote as being connected instead of two disparate thoughts (the you're more measured modifying the the second part of the sentence), and she apparently didn't intend it that way. I explained that in a later post, and she didn't include my explanation in her accusation. Just taking things out of context like that is scummy imo.

It's like when I jumped in on Day 1 and accused Pooky of scumming when he posted the read list of you callers. It was dumb of me to do that, because I hadn't read the 2 or 3 pages prior to that and didn't have the context for why he was doing it. It was pointed out to me that Rousseau had made that request of him, so I backtracked and said whoa you're right. I should have been more aware before throwing stones.

In Kyouko's case, it's obvious she's aware of everything, but she's cherry picking quotes and not giving them their proper due. You take something out of context and anything can sound scummy. "You didn't tie your shoes today." Kind of sounds like you were too lazy to tie your shoes, when actually the person knows you sprained your thumb last night and tying your shoes would be a pain in the ass, so it wasn't a matter of being lazy.

So in sum I've seen a lot of that type of thing from her, or at least I have the sense that I've seen a lot of that kind of thing from her this game. It's scummy behavior, and I'm sticking with my read.

Speaking of snipping a quote and missing context:

You feel less measured here, and I feel like as scum you like to bring attention to your playstyle. It could be you bring attention to your town and scum playstyles matching

as either alignment since I haven't played with town!S_S.

I've already explained to you that the second half of that reasoning (as scum you like to bring attention to your town and scum playstyles matching) could be NAI for S_S because I have not played with him as town.
I've explained what this post meant. It is clear from the original post that I was not using that as a reason to TR S_S. That is why I dont care that you are saying he is doing the same thing in this game

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Guardians was an open setup - I'm much more active when there are mechanics to discuss and try to break.

See my ISO in Owner's Market Blitz. Same as in Guardians, there is a special role that only one person gets and it is given to them by a vote (in Guardians I had to get scum to choose to give it to me), but when something like that is on the line I'm much more passionate about it. Here I just have to scumhunt the old fashioned way, there's nothing mechanical I can try to break the game with.

Here I am getting less and less interested because the people I scumread, nobody seems to care about considering my cases. I'm getting TRed but I'm not getting listened to. Trying to convince people to elim Galron but it feels like S_S is going to die anyways. Once everyone sees him flip town they won't be as apathetic to my cases imo. If he flips scum, I think town will be able to win by end of ELO so I'm not worried about being wrong on S_S as the end result will be that a scum is dead.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

@kyouko

: what’s your current thinking for viable S_S partners rn? I’m asking you because you are the one who brought up the meta point that relates to this rabbit hole I’m going down

A viable S_S partner? I don't think he's scum but if he does flip scum, nothing comes to mind to make me think it couldn't still be Galron. If he flips scum I'd need to reread the Enchant/S_S wagons again looking for the bus. I think there was someone off both wagons with Rousseau, could be them?

lmao just checked, it was Galron off both wagons.

If S_S flips red, I'm still voting Galron tomorrow, but I would also suspect Tetrina, Pooky, or Ydrasse I think. I'd have to do that reread.
If he flips green, I'm still voting Galron, but not suspecting Tetrina much at all really, and not suspecting Pooky or Ydrasse much more that I already do.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: Pooky

That readlist of the communicaters comes from scum I think. Scum know who the scum NPC is. This is Pooky leading Town into deception.

Pooky's saying Hey, this is who we should be listening to. And this other one is cute. That doesn't track.

Wh... why doesn't it track

He keeps saying Shutterbug is scum, but he doesn't address their content. Every other NPC he gets at their content. He just says Shutterbug is scum, adorable, cute, whatever. Makes me think we should be listening to Shutterbug.

So you think pooky is scum and telling us to listen to the scum caller, who is...?

I don't know but I think it's +town for shutterbug.

I missed this post. What was confusing about it?

it confusing because like

you say it came from scum because scum knows who the scum npc is but you didn't seem to indicate anyway where you thought pooky was like, slipping that they were informed or not actually solving the callers due to already knowing?

and then you asked like, do you want to follow bad advice? when like, has it felt so far like they are really giving us advice to you? or leading us somewhere?

and you kept saying we should listen to shutterbug because pooky was ignoring their content but... what content like pooky said

and you seemed to be missing entire context for pooky doing this in the first place
and then when given context you did not interpret it correctly so it felt like you didn't even check to see if the person you were scumreading was actually telling the truth about why they did the thing you were scumreading them for?

That's true I didn't check up on what Pooky said. That's just something I took at face value. If he says you asked him to do it, I figure he's not lying because he's going to be called out on it either by you, another player or me when I go back to read what I missed. And it's Pooky, so he's not going to lie about something so easily checkable unless he's just trolling, and he's a better troll than that.

So yes, I was missing the context for it because I did miss a couple of pages, and I still haven't gone back to check them. In fact, I still haven't gone back to see where you asked him to do that, although I think he or someone posted it for me.

What I was saying about shutterbug was that we should listen to her because it looked to me that Pooky was scumming. I hadn't read closely any of the communications after the first real ones because they didn't seem important. Whether shutterbug had content or not at that point (the point Pooky made the thing) wasn't important anyway. If Pooky was scumming, and shutterbug was townsided, we needed to listen to her if she ever did pop out with content. I mean, how would Pooky know, even if he was scumming, whether shutterbug would have something town would find useful in the future. And it looked to me like Pooky was telling us to disregard her.

I think that answers your questions, but I'm not sure because I'm not the one seeing the contradiction. It just kind of makes sense in my head.

And also I just keep thinking Pooky is a deep wolf for some reason. Maybe he's more active than I'm used to -- that's something I've noticed -- but I haven't played a game with him since I think the end of last year/beg of this year, and it may be something else. But anyway it's the same feeling I get from House/Enchant. There really isn't one particular thing I can point to, I hate this but it's more of a vibe I'm feeling with those two slots. Pooky's for longer. House's since next to last post or exit post and then Enchant has skeeved me since the replace in.

I think I had him in rvs and.I let it sit there for longer than I usually would bc he felt slight scummy. Then he has the thing about not being able to keep up and that felt real but was nai really. And I don't remember off the top of my head too much of him agree that except I think he was posting more but I wasn't getting anything from him. So I'm null scum I guess on him. S_S will liven the slot up a bit I'm guessing. But Roden left little impression.

hm

i asked because roden wagon felt like the most plausible scum motivation i could think of for you to do this:

but i do not think scum!galron is super likely to employ the 'why don't i just do something even if it doesn't make any sense' approach?

Is this talking about the Pooky thing. I'll be honest, I didn't even realize there was a Roden wagon. I think it must have been part of a couple of pages that I missed. But that doesn't matter, I guess what's important is I don't understand the link between Roden and me and me going after Pooky. Or Roden's thoughts on me, and me, and me going after Pooky. If it has something to do with the latter, the way I approached Pooky made sense to me.

I think I had him in rvs and.I let it sit there for longer than I usually would bc he felt slight scummy. Then he has the thing about not being able to keep up and that felt real but was nai really. And I don't remember off the top of my head too much of him agree that except I think he was posting more but I wasn't getting anything from him. So I'm null scum I guess on him. S_S will liven the slot up a bit I'm guessing. But Roden left little impression.

hm

i asked because roden wagon felt like the most plausible scum motivation i could think of for you to do this:

but i do not think scum!galron is super likely to employ the 'why don't i just do something even if it doesn't make any sense' approach?

And you're talking about scum motivation for me, right, and not Roden? Well, yeah of course you are. I don't know. I just don't get the question I guess.

i meant that i asked about your read of roden because the most plausible scum motivation i could think of for you to 'do something even if it doesn't make any sense' would be if trying to divert from roden,

but you say messiness due to not reading lots of things, though i guess it's still weird to me for you to push on something you haven't read the surrounding things

Okay, so you're saying I'm causing a distraction while people are wagonning Roden in order to draw attention to myself and away from him. That implies that Roden and I are scum together. It's kind of weak, isn't it? Why would scum!Galron look to be scum read in place of his scum buddy. But that's NOT what you're saying. What you're saying is I'm causing a distraction while people are wagonning Roden inorder to draw attention to Pooky and away from Roden, not to me and away from Roden. So that does kind of make sense. And I'm going to have to think about that for a minute.

I think its scummy for everyone honestly, yeah

Can you respond to 1704?

Like yeah I can see that if someone consistently focuses on the callers and avoids the players that can be scummy. But I was specifically directed to look at them, and they're a special mechanic of the game, so why wouldn't I try to understand them?

I think 1714 largely addresses that point, but lmk if i missed something

I owe a few things ro a few people, i'll be getting home this evening and will be able to answer more thorougjlh then

If you'd put me in the queue, everyone seems to have at least one person they're fairly confident is scum, but I'm not sure about you. I thought you had a fairly strong scum read on Inifinity, but these posts:

I actually kinda think pooky is scum >.>
@infinity i will respond tomorrow night, im short on time atm and i have to go looking for past games

I'm kinda cool with the roden wagon.

Have a great weekend everyone!

I had no townvibes on roden and i dont like ss's entrance thus far + enchant seems kinda clueless in a way that doesnt seem likely to be coming from someone with access to a scum pt

(3) enchant: gamma emerald (1575), infinity 324 (1576), galron (1584)
(3) something smart: ssbm kyouko (1391), tetrina (1400), cephrir (1401)

Ty
I kinda like the formation of the ss wagon more tho

VOTE: ss

Kinda makes me think you're flaking a bit.

I'm thinking, though, that if these really are s/s wagons a lot of what I'm confused about clears up. But I don't really like even suggesting they're s/s bc I don't see that very often.

And really, there' s a lot of indecisiveness in general, myself included.

holy shit its fucking galron and S_S

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I was just reading Galron's ISO to find his lolcase on Pooky that Pooky is so convinced he is town for

Read the quotes, you'll see why rousseau really died. Makes sense now that the gamestate is so stalled and doesn't feel any better, because the wagons are S/S AGAIN. lol

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'll do S_S today if we need to

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I also get why S_S thinks my case on Galron is hard to follow now too

[ssbm_Kyouko]

can everyone voting skitter just pick between Galron and S_S?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I think Galron is just scum here?

are we sure skitter isn't scum

her case on ssbm is pretty bad

I guess I disagree on this. We're three days deep into this phase, and no one's come up with a good argument, and of those that we have hers makes the most sense. What are your issues with it?

Also, what about kyouko? You indicated that she and I are t/t, but what am I missing wrt her positioning back to me and not gamma? I know my deal on kyouko is kinda weak,

but she asked if I was just sheeping skitter, and I was just spewing what I had been thinking about the past few days about her argument wrt me

. So I'm not going to exactly just let it go without some sort of vetting.

EBWOP: The rest of this post is going to demonstrate that the bolded statement is a lie. This green text is all that was edited.

VOTE: ssbm_kyouko
So the bold, imo, is just a lie. Yes I asked if he was just sheeping skitter, but no, he was not spewing about my argument wrt him, unless I didn't go back far enough?

Skitter's making sense.

Is that the only reason you're voting me?

VOTE: ssbm_kyouko

Skitter's making sense.

Is that the only reason you're voting me?

Actually no. I'm considering the argument you kept making on me yesterday, which was the same thing over and over, and you laid out a long argument on Gamma but never followed up or got back to it. It's just sus. And skitter does make good points here.

I asked in 2356 if his vote was a sheep on skitter, because "skitter makes a good point" sure sounds like it's just sheeping. In response to me asking that question (after, not before), he provides the following bold response

VOTE: ssbm_kyouko

Skitter's making sense.

Is that the only reason you're voting me?

Actually no. I'm considering the argument you kept making on me yesterday, which was the same thing over and over, and you laid out a long argument on Gamma but never followed up or got back to it.

It's just sus. And skitter does make good points here.

Spoiler: My D1 on Galron

VOTE: skitter30

Does a scum!Skitter spend this much effort trying to build a case on town on day 1 of a phase when it's likely any wagon there is likely to break up?

I think skitter is probably town and this (and DGB's vote on skitter) are giving me alarm bells.

Feels like TMI, but if it is TMI, it seems like the intent is to make light of the wagon on skitter indirectly ("it's likely any wagon there is likely to break up"). I say it seems like TMI because Galron has been talking to me as though I'm null or scummy to this point, most of his posting is about how the callers are a distraction iirc. That makes me think he would see me as scummy for bringing the focus there. But he asks his hypothetical as though he knows I'm town. This doesn't align.

VOTE: Galron

It remains to be seen if this is WKing or just defending a buddy but I think Skitter has behaved well since voting me and since I voted her.

it kiiiiinda feels like you're digging in your heels and i don't get it

Do you think scumFinity does that here?

I've had the same inkling and it grows stronger the longer the skitter-infinty discussion goes on. It seems white-knighty, I'm kinda thinking a Galron, DGB, Infinity team rn. Possible theater between them and they're all sort of distanced by positioning differently around skitter and I.

Pedit: not sure if launch was a typo but if it was that word is recently banned, and if it wasn't you should probably use a word less similar like yeet

I like most of ydrasse's list, feels pretty close to my thoughts so far, at the very least it reinforces for me that she's town even if we're both wrong.

Mine goes:
Townread: Rousseau, Ydrasse
Townlean: Skitter, Cephrir,
Nulltown: Tetrina
Null: Gamma, Pooky, House
Nullscum: Roden, DGB
Scumlean: Galron
Scumread: Infinity

House truly null, Gamma and Pooky in null because they've both done things that are lightly towny and lightly scummy, and to me they feel balanced out.

Roden I expect to have heard more from by now, but it hasn't been long so this could fluctuate quickly.

Galron's reaction to being voted feels like unconcerned town to me, but this is easy to fake as scum. This lifts him out of the scumread tier to a scumlean for me.

In Infinity's discussion with skitter, I really felt like I was being white knighted at first. I didnt say anything because I wanted to see how long it would go on, and it seemed to me that any push on skitter there was heavily tied to defending me. I'm going to reread this and see what I think today though.

It has skitter, I want to consolidate with skitter or ydrasse, and both the players they're voting are my bottom 3 with Galron

Okay why are DGB and galron in your bottom 3 reads?

It's already explained in my readslist.

Galron I think should have a different view of me based on his stance around the communications from the callers. He said they're a distraction and town should not abide a distraction taking hold of the thread

DGB's skitter vote bugged me as potentially opportunistic and there's also something that looks like theater going on between it and Galron

Infinity is white knighting me and also has what feel like forced interactions with galron.

The three of them are sort of positioned "around" skitter vs me, which could be distancing between Galron and DGB/Infinity on opposite sides.

Gamma what's your read on infinity now then if you're not

necessarily

going to reread her and skitter?

Galron I think should have a different view of me based on his stance around the communications from the callers. He said they're a distraction and town should not abide a distraction taking hold of the thread

What is my view of you? I'm not even sure I've got a read on you yet, but I do have a view. I'll tell you about it after you tell me what you think it is.

I believe the initial communications were a distraction, yes, put there for color. Whether the subsequent ones are relevant, no idea yet.

I think you, as town, should be annoyed by me posting about the callers if you really think they are a distraction. I would expect that to color your read on me.

Pedit: nice job Galron, you've stopped tweetie

Also Galron, in 490, who are you about to sheep? What is "the call on cephrir" and who made it? It seems from context it's meant to be me but I'm leaning town on him

This is going to feed into paranoia that I'm buddies with Galron but I do town read him.

why?

DGB's skitter vote bugged me as potentially opportunistic and there's also something that looks like theater going on between it and Galron

Infinity is white knighting me and also has what feel like forced interactions with galron.

The three of them are sort of positioned "around" skitter vs me, which could be distancing between Galron and DGB/Infinity on opposite sides.

It seems like you're answering "why does this feed into paranoia that you are partners with Galron", but I think ydrasse is asking "why do you tr Galron" - maybe I'm wrong in that, but if she wasn't asking that, I'll ask it, because I'd like to know.

"why do you tr Galron"

His giddiness jumps right off the page, maybe he has a big fat PR

I don't know if I recognize the giddiness in rereading his ISO. maybe in recent posting it's not as flat as it started, but I wouldn't say giddy. Where does it jump out for you, in what posts?

I’m not sold on Cephrir!town but I don’t like the way you or Galron entered the thread after kyouko called you town partners with Infinity

I missed this. Where?

Okay why are DGB and galron in your bottom 3 reads?

It's already explained in my readslist.

Galron I think should have a different view of me based on his stance around the communications from the callers. He said they're a distraction and town should not abide a distraction taking hold of the thread

DGB's skitter vote bugged me as potentially opportunistic and there's also something that looks like theater going on between it and Galron

Infinity is white knighting me and also has what feel like forced interactions with galron.

The three of them are sort of positioned "around" skitter vs me, which could be distancing between Galron and DGB/Infinity on opposite sides.

For some reason I read Gamma's post as Kyouko calling Infinity and me town partners, and that threw me off. Thanks for pointing that out.

I wonder if this threw Galron off because Galron is partnered with Infinity, and he didnt understand why he was being called a town partner with her, rather than a scum partner

VOTE: Galron

Roden, what do you think of DGB and Galron as individuals? Separate from which wagon has more resistance

I wonder if this threw Galron off because Galron is partnered with Infinity, and he didnt understand why he was being called a town partner with her, rather than a scum partner

VOTE: Galron

a) dislike this reasoning, i also thought gamma had written 'town partners'
b) don't want galron to be on e2

I’m not sold on Cephrir!town but I don’t like the way you or Galron entered the thread after kyouko called you town partners with Infinity

Here's Gamma's post. Without the context of the typo, it is ambiguous whether he is using the plural or the singular you, and since the first use of you in the post is singular ( and is addressed at Galron) it is easily read that way from his point of view.

Gamma did write town partners, but it's not wrong to interpret it the way I think he might have.

Okay not literally a joke, but the implication was that because tetrina pointed to you and you to Galron, that he should point to tetrina. Obviously that's not a serious train of thought, like you were just memeing out, but he responded as though it were serious

VOTE: Galron

third times the charm?

can you explain to me the issue with

'do you think scum!player (where player is not the one speaking or being spoken to) would do this:'

as that seems to be the basis for your galron read as well as for your gamma emerald case

It's not the basis for my Galron read, I don't know if that's even a point I've made against Galron. Maybe you mean my comment on the way that Gamma moved from Galron to DGB? That is equity with scum!Gamma that comes from Gamma's side and isn't AI for Galron unless Gamma flips red. It makes me feel better that there is equity between my scumreads, but I'm not scumreading Galron

because

of Gamma.

I wouldn't call it the

basis

for my Gamma case, but that's possibly a matter of perception. It is the

reason

I tried to trap him around an infinity partner read. I think his behavior around her, and hers around him, are suspicious, but I don't think there is interest in eliminating him today.

The reason it pinged me in the first place is this - it is a tell specific to Gamma:
"Will ask the general playerbase how they feel about his partner to either a) remove them from people's minds to eliminate or b) know the time is right to bus them
Source: viewtopic.php?p=12881030#p12881030 (Large 233)"
(from Gamma's scumtells in a notes file I keep on my PC)

It's not the basis for my Galron read, I don't know if that's even a point I've made against Galron.

this was the first time you voted for galron:

VOTE: skitter30

Does a scum!Skitter spend this much effort trying to build a case on town on day 1 of a phase when it's likely any wagon there is likely to break up?

I think skitter is probably town and this (and DGB's vote on skitter) are giving me alarm bells.

Feels like TMI, but if it is TMI, it seems like the intent is to make light of the wagon on skitter indirectly ("it's likely any wagon there is likely to break up"). I say it seems like TMI because Galron has been talking to me as though I'm null or scummy to this point, most of his posting is about how the callers are a distraction iirc. That makes me think he would see me as scummy for bringing the focus there. But he asks his hypothetical as though he knows I'm town. This doesn't align.

VOTE: Galron

It remains to be seen if this is WKing or just defending a buddy but I think Skitter has behaved well since voting me and since I voted her.

The first halves of the sentences are the same but you're comparing apples to oranges. It's right in that post that I think Galron is TMIing me as town. In Gamma's 321 I suspected that scum!Gamma was testing the waters to see if he would need to bus scum!Infinity

The first halves of the sentences are the same but you're comparing apples to oranges. It's right in that post that I think Galron is TMIing me as town. In Gamma's 321 I suspected that scum!Gamma was testing the waters to see if he would need to bus scum!Infinity

right but the tmiing you as town would be on account of asking you if scum!skitter would do x and that doesn't seem to be implied to me so i am asking the issue with this general type of question as it also stood out to you elsewhere

unless you think simply assuming that scum!skitter wouldn't be pushing scum!you in that situation is tmi? because that feels ??? to me

I think you might need to reread the posts more closely as there are a couple of problems with what you're describing.

Galron is addressing DGB in response to it voting Skitter.
Galron says, to DGB, does scum!Skitter push town [Kyouko] like this?
I identify this (Galron referring to me as town) feels TMI to me because so far I have felt that Galron viewed me as null or scummy, and that if anything, he should have a negative view of me because he sees the discussion about the callers as distracting.

Galron is addressing DGB in response to it voting Skitter.
Galron says, to DGB, does scum!Skitter push town [Kyouko] like this?
I identify this (Galron referring to me as town) feels TMI to me because so far I have felt that Galron viewed me as null or scummy, and that if anything, he should have a negative view of me because he sees the discussion about the callers as distracting.

1.

yeah first you meant not to be there

but asking

2.

do you think scum!skitter does pushes you like this as town?

3.

does not imply that you are town? like you are answering the question for drippinggoofball as 'yes' in order to conclude that

4.

galron was tmiing you as town?

5.

whereas asking 'do you think scum!skitter pushes a wagon likely to fall apart like this?'

6.

to me implies that galron thinks it is not super likely but is asking drippinggoofball for their opinion

7.

and thus if not likely that galron thinks scum!skitter would do this, that implies galron thinks more likely town!skitter, thus not inconsistent with earlier interactions with you

8.

so i am asking why this sort of question means that to you

1. I'm thinking this is a reference to a typo, not sure. If it's important lmk.
2. This is the exact question that was asked, with the green inserted by me for clarity, because the wording in your post is unclear:

VOTE: skitter30

Does a scum!Skitter spend this much effort trying to build a case on town

[Kyouko]

on day 1 of a phase when it's likely any wagon there is likely to break up?

3. I am the player that Skitter was spending effort in trying to build a case on, so yes, it does imply that I am town. If DGB had answered yes, it would follow that DGB also concedes that I am town for the purposes of answering the question. I have drawn no conclusions about anyone, including DGB, from a made-up answer to this question. I

have

drawn conlcusions about Galron based on the wording he used in his own question. He chose those words.

4. Galron

is

slipping that he thinks I am town here. If he were not, he would have worded the question differently.
5. <nothing to respond to>
6. I don't disagree with your conclusion here. This, however, has nothing to do with Galron TMIing me as town. If he was posing the question as though I were town, he would have said "town!Kyouko", instead of "town", because he did use "scum!Skitter" as a hypothetical.
7. Galron's read on skitter is not what is inconsistent. What is inconsistent is that he sees the discussions about the callers as a distraction, but even though I have been very focused on the callers, he slips that I am town, when he hasn't mentioned anything of the sort before. In fact, later on, when I further clarify that the inconsistency on me is related to my focus on the callers, he claims he has no read on me yet, but he does have a view on me:

Galron I think should have a different view of me based on his stance around the communications from the callers. He said they're a distraction and town should not abide a distraction taking hold of the thread

What is my view of you? I'm not even sure I've got a read on you yet, but I do have a view. I'll tell you about it after you tell me what you think it is.

I believe the initial communications were a distraction, yes, put there for color. Whether the subsequent ones are relevant, no idea yet.

8. Apples and oranges. My read on Galron is not related to "this sort of question" in the sense you seem to think it is. The only relation it has to that question is that in the wording of that question, Galron TMIs that I am town.

That took a while to write because Rousseau is obfuscating the issue with the formatting and misquoting the actual content of the quotes because it's coming from memory^

now it just looks to me like your point is,

is tmi because 'town' instead of 'town!kyouko'

which, uh, shrug

what's the rest of the reasoning as to why galron is a scums?

shortly thereafter he says he doesn't have a read on me yet, which is in contradiction with him calling me town in his question to DGB. I think this further indicates that calling me town was a slip and he's backtracking to cover it up.
I also haven't seen anything since then to convince me he's townie or solving.
Furthermore, the way he says he "leaned in" to your meme question about the triangle of being annoyed between Tetrina, you, and him, makes me think he's having trouble engaging in general and is "leaning in" to try to force some involvement. Describing it as leaning in reveals that he is aware he is detached, and it feels like something scum would do: Open up about what they're actually feeling in a game to appear genuine and therefore townie.

Hmm...

Roden, what's your opinion on Galron? Do you think he could be scum? You seemed to be talking like he could be earlier, but then this...

VOTE: Galron

Does Galron still fit into the equation if both Infinity and Gamma are town? I'm back and forth on Gamma but I think Infinity backed up everything she said about her TR on Gamma with some pretty detailed receipts.

This kind of made me think otherwise.
UNVOTE:

VOTE: Pooky

That readlist of the communicaters comes from scum I think. Scum know who the scum NPC is. This is Pooky leading Town into deception.

???

@callers,

Think it was asked already, but do you know if there is any material benefit if we or you can identify the scum caller?

So you think pooky is scum and telling us to listen to the scum caller, who is...?

My argument on you was not the same thing over and over yesterday. I've included my takes on you and my interactions with you in that spoiler^. I spent several IRL days prodding at Gamma re:Infinity to build that case, and in the end I was satisfied with his responses, so I didn't go back to the case, no, instead I formed a TR on him. This should all be clear if you were paying attention to me on D1, and if you weren't paying attention, I would expect town to do some homework before their vote, unless they were just sheeping, and you said that wasn't the case.

VOTE: Galron

I go on to show that I was not just repeating the case on him over and over yesterDay and explain why Gamma's case I dropped, but his I did not. Then I imply he is scum because he did not do his homework for a vote that he has claimed is not a sheep vote.

Below, we have the interactions between Galron and I, and his thoughts on me, from the start of D1:

You feel less measured here, and I feel like as scum you like to bring attention to your playstyle. It could be you bring attention to your town and scum playstyles matching as either alignment since I haven't played with town!S_S.

A lot of his posts are about him though. so how is he different this game?

btw who else noticed Rousseau's soft? Curious as to how likely it is that it went unnoticed. Cephrir would of course have seen because it was addressed at him, and I know I saw it on my first read, so it was probably noticeable, but idk how noticeable it really was.

I didn't and am kind of confused as to that comment about how it was directed more at cephrir than to me.

Galron responds to 2 of my posts, and I think it's fair to assume from his tone he is not SRing me at this point, but maybe this is incorrect. Certainly if he has 2 strong scumreads, Gamaa and I, at the end of D1, I would expect it to be evident in his posting towards me that he scumreads me. If he does scumread me here, he is hiding it well.

You feel less measured here

, and I feel like as scum you like to bring attention to your playstyle. It could be you bring attention to your town and scum playstyles matching as either alignment since I haven't played with town!S_S.

A lot of his posts are about him though. so how is he different this game?

bolded

So this response, imo, was already out there for him. I feel like it's not difficult to understand 2287. I say in that post that it could be that the second point is NAI (in more words). That means the first point is what tells me he's town.

btw who else noticed Rousseau's soft? Curious as to how likely it is that it went unnoticed. Cephrir would of course have seen because it was addressed at him, and I know I saw it on my first read, so it was probably noticeable, but idk how noticeable it really was.

I didn't and am kind of confused as to that comment about how it was directed more at cephrir than to me.

I just couldn't remember if rousseau directed the comment at you or Cephrir off the top of my head, and didnt want to go back to check. She was directing at Cephrir.

This is just my response to his other interaction with me. not indicative of Galron's alignment or his read on me I don't think.

Skitter- pushed me and defended Enchant in a way that would probably draw more attention than she would like
Pooky- was calling me scum and could have hammered me but didn't
Ceph- switched off of me to Enchant and admitted seeing rousseau's crumb
DGB- weird contrary reads and self-destructive play
Ydrasse- switched off of me to Enchant
Galron- 1823

What don't you think is townie about Tetrina or kyouko?

2305 is S_S's readslist which was originally in

Spoiler: this post.

Uh, something like

Skitter, Pooky, Ceph, DGB
Ydrasse, Galron
Everyone else

I think from this post it is clear that at this point Galron has a problem with S_S not saying that Tetrina and I are town, which heavily implies he thinks we both are town, unless he thinks we are both scum, in which case I think it would be unnatural to phrase the question in the way he did, and instead he would have said "Do you think Tetrina and Kyouko are scum?" or "What do you think of Tetrina and Kyouko?", if Galron had one or both of us in null and wondered if S_S might also.

That last post is the most convincing evidence that Galron was lying about scumreading me at the end of D1/start of D2. It is also evident that he was not, in his exact words,

"just spewing what I had been thinking about the past few days about her argument wrt me"

, when I asked him if he was sheeping skitter. He didn't start doing any of that until after I asked him if he was sheeping. Skitter is probably town here because it would just be bad to double up and hardpush me if skitter/Galron were teamed, so I think Galron is taking advantage of Skitter's tunnel, gets caught sheeping, and when pressured about his vote on me, lies about the reason he is voting me because he doesn't want to look bad for just sheeping.

Nothing would have been wrong with just sheeping skitter, but Galron didn't own that and tried to say he was voting me for actual reasons, and it's clear they were made up after the fact.

I mean here is the post I thought you were referring to when you said my case was hard to follow and the "thesis" is in bright green letters

[ssbm_Kyouko]

The keyword in bold is "just" - he says just as though "that's what I was just doing before she asked me that" - my post proves he didnt start talking about that until after I asked him if he was sheeping.

Even if he meant "just" in the sense of "this is all I was doing", hes still using something that came after I asked him if he was only sheeping skitter to demonstrate why he thinks I'm scummy for asking him that question. He's acting like: [he's been posting about my arguments wrt him the whole time, and that its scummy of me to ask if he is only sheeping skitter when it should be evident he has his own reasons to vote me]. The problem is, his reasons to vote me were not brought up until after I asked if it was a sheep.

To break it down in simple terms:

Skitter voted me
Galron voted me saying "skitter has a good point" [sic].
I asked Galron, "are you just sheeping skitter?"
Galron says no, and only then does he start to talk about my arguments wrt him.

Some time passes. Galron makes the previously bolded statement. I make my case on him saying he doesnt start talking about my arguments wrt him until after I have asked him if he is just sheeping skitter.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Basically I asked him why he did A. He said "B", then some time passed and he said "Kyouko asked me A, when I was just doing B! How dare she!"

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I didn't think that was hard to follow. That's not my only case on him though, it's just the most recent one

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Thank you, that's very helpful.

I'm sorry for being annoying, but it bugs me to have to wade through long quotestripe posts (especially on mobile) when it's possible for someone to sum up their arguments much more concisely.

Also, fwiw, I greatly prefer post links to quotes for things like that. They're easy to follow, they don't clutter up the post, and they let you look at the context of the post.

I post and read from mobile mostly and dont like reading posts with post tags because I cant read them without making a mess of new tabs

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I cant go back and forth easy with back, I like to be able to read what someone is commenting on while looking st there comments to see if their comments were reasonable thoughts to have regarding the post they are commenting on. When it's in post numbers I have a hard time doing that. Maybe it's just a me thing

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I was just reading Galron's ISO to find his lolcase on Pooky that Pooky is so convinced he is town for

Read the quotes, you'll see why rousseau really died. Makes sense now that the gamestate is so stalled and doesn't feel any better, because the wagons are S/S AGAIN. lol

Arrrright

Tell me who I should vote for then.

Galrrrrron

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I know my deal on kyouko is kinda weak, but she asked if I was just sheeping skitter, and I was just spewing what I had been thinking about the past few days about her argument wrt me.

Galron, what did you mean by this?

I think it is a pretty ambiguous and convoluted statement and it's entirely possible that ssbm interpreted it wrong.

"and I was only spewing what I was thinking about"

So to be clear, we could rewrite 2531 as follows and it would convey your meaning exactly?

"I know my case on Kyouko is weak, but she asked me if I was only sheeping skitter. That's scummy because for the few days prior to Kyouko asking me that, I was only spewing my thoughts related to Kyouko's argument with regard to me. Kyouko should have known I was not only sheeping, because I had made my thoughts regarding Kyouko's argument with regard to me clear

for a few days before

Kyouko asked the question."

Would this be an accurate representation of what you were trying to say in 2531?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

And if not, what were you trying to say on 2531?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I thought spewing was when you reveal something by posting, do I have the wrong idea of what spewing is?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

what, exactly, is scummy about having reasons to vote someone that you don't voice until you're questioned on them?

galron wagon is terrible and i'd much rather just go back to ss

That's not a problem. The problem for me is, it looks like he is saying that I am scummy for asking him if he is only sheeping when he has been spewing it for a few days. I didnt see him saying anything about me being scum for a few days before I asked him if he was sheeping

[ssbm_Kyouko]

why is scum going to make up a dumb reason to call you scum when they already have a justification for voting you?

galron can answer why (if?) he was calling you scum for that question in particular but i really don't see how this is relevant to his alignment

I dont think Galron already had a reason to vote me. I think he didnt expect me to lash out at him because I didnt lash out at skitter, and he thought I would be a good place to park his vote. I think if he already had the reasons he would have either mentioned them when he voted me, or not commented on skitter's case when he voted me, or both. By commenting on skitter's case and not mentioning any reasons he claimed he had at the time he voted me, he is being intentionally misleading.

I think he is teamed with S_S and was voting me as a counter. It explains why he wasnt on either wagon yesterDay. It explains why the gamestate feels so fucked despite eliminating scum D1. There's no clear bus. S_S is suddenly active now that Galron is at risk. S_S feels the most engaged he's been all game in the conversation he has with me regarding my Galron read, and he is he one that suggests it could be a misunderstanding. If there was a misunderstanding or a miscommunication, Galron could have pointed it out himself. S_S wants to defend Galron more than he's wanted to be involved in anything else in this game.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Hmm

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I remember having a thought about DGB at Day start. As though scum expected DGB to be the wagon and when it didnt pick up I was targeted in part because I was pushing DGB. I dont think it flips scum here so I'm not going to hammer

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I was targeted in part because I was pushing DGB.

Shouldn't it be the opposite? Why would they target you because you're pushing the player they want to push???

And WHO targeted you

Ydrasse or skitter iirc, will have to reread to confirm

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I was targeted in part because I was pushing DGB.

Shouldn't it be the opposite? Why would they target you because you're pushing the player they want to push???

And WHO targeted you

Also you weren't taking off as a wagon so they needed someone else to push. You not taking off means the consensus is against voting you, and would possibly be sympathetic to voting someone who is going against that (me, who was pushing you)

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I accept my death today owing to my embarrassing performance yesterday.

I should give you my reads so that you slay my town-reads and lawktown my scum-reads to win the game.

This isn’t how a PR post, especially not even it’s a player of DGB’s caliber
I don’t buy the claim at all.

DGB did soft on D1 and I think its protect is good enough to live toDay as Ydra also softed D1. Let's not kill DGB and we kill DGB tomorrow if Ydra dies toNight. Ydra, you need to out anything you have in the morning. We kill S_S now for the context on the Enchant/S_S wagon and things start to make sense tomorrow I think.

Unless Ydra you want to hard claim that 138 wasnt a soft, in which case I think Ydra is trying to pocket pooky by implying she has an investigative a bit later in her next few posts after 138.

Not to townspew or anything but i got excited reading my pm

because i get to solve for real but just not at this exact moment

(:

Do u know why i asked if u tr me yet

I think you're trying to pokit me again

Kind of

open your eyes

THINK POOKY

okay vibe check someone (not me) rn and i’ll double vote you

VOTE: gamma emerald

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: S_S

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Well actually, Ydra can wait to out until the day before MELO or until DGB dies, whichever comes first

[ssbm_Kyouko]

As though scum expected DGB to be the wagon

Interestingly it was Ydrasse who came prepared and got that ball rolling.

Btw I already softed that I saw Ydrasse's soft at the start of toDay. That's why I pushed DGB, I thought Ydra had guiltied it when the day started