mini theme 2229: MBOS 13 schweppes' pulpy potions daya 5

[T3]

HERE COMES THE CAVALRY!

[T3]

The cavalry has a cold.

[T3]

I won't even acknowledge post 11's existence because it seems to contain math.

How could you

[T3]

Do mafia have a nightkill or do they just toss poison at people.

Town post this far more often than scum think to fake it

I'm going to take this at face value and assume you're not the sort of person to fake this sort of thing. Unless you say you are.

Towny for recognising that and calling it out

Dwlee's giving me town pings for their weird posting that on a surface level looks scummy, and scum are less likely to make

This is reading way too deep into RVS interactions.

[T3]

Do mafia have a nightkill or do they just toss poison at people.

the obvious question here is: is this a real townslip?

I don't know. I could see scum looking at the rules or whatever and realizing 'wtf I don't have a nightkill better townslip '

[T3]

meta can be good.

YAAAAAAAAAAY

[T3]

Do mafia have a nightkill or do they just toss poison at people.

the obvious question here is: is this a real townslip?

I don't know. I could see scum looking at the rules or whatever and realizing 'wtf I don't have a nightkill better townslip '

Why would exactly that be my first thought if i was scum?

Again, that's a theory based on personal experience. I recently played an Open that I signed up for thinking it was closed. Then when I saw my role PM [scum] the first thing I did was fake townslip.

[T3]

on the contrary, i find that i confbias myself into seeing townies as towny when i'm scum.

this could be what The Emperor is doing.
VOTE: The Emperor

Incorrect

Reads are hard and fast here when Order 66 is on the horizon

what do you mean by that?

I like pushing any reads or thoughts I have out, also helps getting the game going early

do you have any scumreads? do you actually scumread me?

Do you

actually

scumread me feels really weird.

[T3]

I have Thoughts on the setup but will not be discussing them until later as I'd rather play things out normally for a bit rather than get bogged down in mechanical arguments.

-R

Townpost. Secretiveness with reads is almost always towny.

[T3]

does anyone want to vote The Emperor with me?

Why did you scumread them again?

on the contrary, i find that i confbias myself into seeing townies as towny when i'm scum.

this could be what The Emperor is doing.
VOTE: The Emperor

ta vera have I played a Mini Normal with you before?

[T3]

K Norwee is town lol

[T3]

what about the back and forth between me and The Emperor? mechanics talk isn't the only thing that has been happening. it was only a piece for a little bit.

LOOK AT MEEEEE IM POSTING CONTENT
VOTE: ta vera

[T3]

so i typed out a post outlining how dunnstral is scum, because he's not posting here while posting elsewhere, and how that is scum indicative because of some of my previous games with him... and then i had enough brain to check the op, and it turns out he's not even playing in this game. whoops.

anyway, i reread the game and i was hoping to have some piping hot takes, but i turns out, i do not.

i do have an urge to townread bingle because he's funny, but that's probably a very bad idea. though i did get some scumpings on ta vera yesterday when skimming, but i don't get them today and i don't remember why i had them yesterday, so @bingle, mind talking about why you're voting there?

i do have some vaguely townie pings on dwlee and norwee, but honestly they feel ~rand chance of being correct.

-D

Meta townie opening. I'll elaborate on this when Datisi has posted enough content for me to be completely sure though.

[T3]

VOTE: titus

"trying to keep the game in rvs for longer instead of doing something to get us out of it" feels like one of those reasoning that almost never works, but i'm running with it for now.

-D

VOTE: titus

"trying to keep the game in rvs for longer instead of doing something to get us out of it" feels like one of those reasoning that almost never works, but i'm running with it for now.

-D

You think the functionally V/LA Titus is the one to push over avoiding thread progression?

well for one, she was posting elsehwere, but also she's the only person going "i will ignore the game related discussion because i don't care about it and will keep trying to keep rvs alive on page 6", so yeah.

-D

Agreed.

[T3]

Do mafia have a nightkill or do they just toss poison at people.

the obvious question here is: is this a real townslip?

i find that being weird can actually garner town reads sometimes. and, i think weirdness is more of a personality thing than something someone does as a strategy.

meta can be good.

Dwlee seemed like a very efficient robot as scum in the last game we had.

oh. i've never played with scum dwlee.

All of these lines of interaction seem to me like they're aimed at going no where. You've got the noncommital question about a 'townslip' that has already been called out (It wasn't a townslip, btw, it was a question scumNorwee could also have had), a "That's NAI.", generic comments about nothing (meta can be good), and a nothingburger response to Norwee's meta. Also, the mechstuff, even if prompted.

It feels more like she wants to be seen as doing something more than actually wanting to do something.

Big Brain Bingle is probtown.

[T3]

I've traveled here from the future to inform you that 8 is not a townslip.

-S

Both heads apear to be here but are just doing nothing.

[T3]

Yes that is what i said.

s_s, we would never. :3

anyway, VOTE: norwee. 183 feels like an extremely overblown response to s_s saying "btw, 8 isn't a townslip". trying really hard / having an agenda to make sure norwee isn't townread? by saying that one (1) page 1 post isn't a townslip? come on.

-D

I don't know whether to scumread this reaction or laugh at this reaction.

[T3]

Ok i'm pretty confident in my townread on GCB now. Their anger seems genuine.
Which means scum might be in the slots that was voting with me.

Had the exact same thoughts when reading this.

[T3]

Current strongest suspects are Titus + Limit, but Datisi thought S_S was pinging townie (I didn't see it personally, think they've been quite lacking overall).

i was skimming earlier, i saw this, and it's something i want to touch on:

i have some town-indicative tells when reading s_s, that i've been using in the past 2-3 games, with ~decent success. and the way he's played so far this game did trigger a few of those towntells. however, i'm not putting too much stock into them (or rather, i'm trying not to tunnel them) since low sample size, the rest of his content isn't Great, and the fact that lilith is barely here is... worrying. so i'm fine with our vote there.

also, after having slept on it and having cooled off from the initial omgus feeling, i think the emperor's push on me maybe probably comes from town? it's not a lock read by any stretch, but i do think i was being a bit too strict earlier. that said, i do wanna see what he returns with.

i don't wanna make retti do all the work, but it's been a long day for me, i'll Properly Read the past few pages tomorrow to see if i've missed anything important. yell at me within the next half an hour if there's something you want my input on now.

-D

Huh so my meta tell on Datisi is really inconsistent this game so nvm.

[T3]

Norwee's reaction to GCB's tone seemed rational but also slightly sarcastic which I think is meta towny based on ODM. I may be wrong though, I'll go look.

[T3]

Looking through ODM Norwee's response to the mastina tunnel was very different to here. Norwee actually engaged with Dats and provided a read on him. In ODM Norwee just ignored mastina until out of the blue voting her but not actually attempting to sort her. Obviously the circumstances around the tunnel are different but this makes Norwee a strong townread.

[T3]

If I wanted to fake content I'd fake content.

Yes but what about putting out real content?

[T3]

Btw RE: T3: my first thought was "scum" from the angles he's pushing here but I've reconsidered and think it's just possible he's wrong-town in the sense of he's pushing in areas that will lead us to lim town rather than scum.

I'm responding to the posts that stand out to me as I catch up.

[T3]

I never used the word "useful".

Well, I don't understand what Dwlee would expect to gain by giving the appearance of engaging uselessly.

-S

All of your posts feel weird to me. Like you're choosing to talk about things that matter very little.

[T3]

Norwegian -

Who said they would need to be panicky? It just felt sinister to me.

If they do this all games then i suppose it’s not AI, but to me it felt like it.

Why would me finding something to be scummy mean i am scum? I don’t see the connection.

I liked this sequence, like he's posting his thoughts on the matter as they come to him in quick succession. Think scum are more likely to compile it all into one post and give it more thought rather than spontaneously post in this manner

I agree with Datisi's characterization, but I would think that the fear of being undermined by scum would be more towny than anything? Unless he's that confident in his scumgame that he expects to become townread.

-S

I also agree with this -S guy

UNVOTE:
Explain why it's scummy for me to scumread them here Datisi.

I also like this unvote after -S's assessment, which he later comes back to here:

I think S_S could be town for their response here.

Considering the topic of argument between Norwegian and Cap Boys there was whether or not his reaction towards Limit was valid, I find it unlikely that a scum Norwegian would yield and unvote so quickly during it

I just don't really vibe with 196 from Green Caps. It's hard to poke holes in exactly what doesn't sit right with me, but it's the overall classification that's been given I think. Like I do

know

of Norwegian and am also aware that Green Cap Boys do (shocking meta from a secret alt, I know), but the defensive reaction from Norwegian is something I'd say was towny from him, even if it is possible to spin it as scummy in a vacuum, which is what Cap Boys may be doing

So you see me as an very calm and level-headed individual as town? With the experience you have of my town playstyle up to now?

This basically

213 - The logic here is feasible but I just don't agree

218 - the sentiment of being annoyed yet trying to see through it and judge whether or not it's a TvT is towny

s_s, we would never. :3

anyway, VOTE: norwee. 183 feels like an extremely overblown response to s_s saying "btw, 8 isn't a townslip". trying really hard / having an agenda to make sure norwee isn't townread? by saying that one (1) page 1 post isn't a townslip? come on.

-D

literally my first fucking post against you was that you were overblowing and maliciously presenting s_s's post, are you serious?

-D

Ok i'm pretty confident in my townread on GCB now. Their anger seems genuine.
Which means scum might be in the slots that was voting with me.

Nah, that anger is nai probably

I think Green Cap Boys get annoyed there regardless of alignment, since from their perspective their words are being misinterpreted from Norwegian

About your first point, that's usually seen as a generic scumtell but for most players it's a playstyle thing. Rathe comes to mind.

[T3]

I have a meta read on Bingle which I'll hold onto for now

So the meta read here is that scum Bingle doesn't really joke around about mech early game, while he almost always does as town from what I've seen

I don't really like the angle he's taking wrt to ta vera right now. 159 felt selective since it doesn't mention ta vera's mech analysis which I actually felt like it served some use, as well as her push on The Senate

Meta is better than all other tells because most players won't actively try to change their meta unless they are often sorted by it.

[T3]

I'm down to vote any of cass, mastina and Fairy Circle. In fact,

VOTE: Fairy Circle

The mod explicitly announces this hydra sub and still no posts.

VOTE: Titus
For obvious reasons.

[T3]

I think your entrance was off and you seem to be selectively engaging in things that aren't really AI.

Coincidentally enough I think your entrance is off aside from containing what I believe to be a scumclaim and that this is not your towngame.

Strange response
VOTE: Titus

(For the record I may have an idea who The Emperor is and if right I lean town surprisingly.)

I also have a guess but if I'm right he would lean scum based on tone.

[T3]

Does Flea The Magician have an alignment preference?

I don't remember this but I imagine the hydra doesn't like scum collectively.

I don't want to eliminate them on D1 even if they're scum tho. <3

I would recommend reading post 1 before you continue claiming that bingle has scumclaimed.

I have read it and I still think that Bingle is scumclaiming for a very specific reason that I shall not elaborate on until Bingle elaborates on the details of his role PM.

That said even if he didn't scumclaim I'd be voting him here anyway because I legit think that Bingle's just scum here.

I'm leaning town on Bingle but it's probably best if I sheep and not make you elaborate. VOTE: Bingle

[T3]

Oh you have ingredients in your role PM?

Just poison. I was implying I might have more than one in case Schadd told me this setup had closed elements to obscure information, but it turns out the ingredients are publicly a red herring.

Okay Bingle's scumclaim remains a scumclaim then.

UNVOTE: Bingle
I don't get why he wouldc claim that if town.

[T3]

Oh you have ingredients in your role PM?

Just poison. I was implying I might have more than one in case Schadd told me this setup had closed elements to obscure information, but it turns out the ingredients are publicly a red herring.

Okay Bingle's scumclaim remains a scumclaim then.

UNVOTE: Bingle
I don't get why he would claim that if scum.

EBWOP

[T3]

As of page 14 I've disagreed with all of Fairy's reads. .-.

[T3]

I’m going Bingle.

I’m assuming I’m the lim today, tbh, and I’m not really fighting it because I have no potions. The real question is can I orchestrate a mass action chain to follow after I die.

Huh what

[T3]

Momcinda thinks you're town, I don't.

-Malefleacent

+town I think.

[T3]

I finished my catchup and shall declare a townbloc: T3, Norwee, Emp, GCB
maybe Bingle and maybe mastina, will metadive mastina soon.

[T3]

VOTE: Titus for now.

[T3]

Do mafia have a nightkill or do they just toss poison at people.

the obvious question here is: is this a real townslip?

I don't know. I could see scum looking at the rules or whatever and realizing 'wtf I don't have a nightkill better townslip '

I feel obligated to remind you that you

played

in the previous MBOS where several townies townslipped about the lack of a nightkill.

I still don’t think it’s utterly damning, and i liked his posts from that point onwards and i agree with T3’s point of: "Bingle should be better at mechanics as scum to know better than to claim something that looks utterly scummy." Therefore i can only assume he did so because it is real, and Schadd felt like adding an miller type role that looks scummy by default but is town.

The potion distributions are randomly generated. There's no intentional design in any role. Bingle's claim is likely true regardless of alignment. I don't know why he'd get an ingredient with no potion but I also don't see why he'd bother to come up with that lie - it opens him up to a potential counter claim if he's scum and there's a potionless townie.

I don't think there is

any

claim scum could conceivably make here that would be cause for pumping the brakes (I certainly can't think of one that'd make me stop), but Bingle is also aware that as a semi-nightless setup, losing a scum member, even a functionally powerless one, is a fairly significant blow and he'd have tried harder to avoid the yeet. Although you could argue that his posting was him trying to avoid the yeet. But meh. I think the analysis from him is fine and there are people I suspect more.

-R

mastina still hasn't explained why bingle scumclaimed even after multiple people have asked so that's what I'm assuming it is, and it's a bullshit reason.

Usually when someone says someone else is mech scum it's best not to make them elaborate.

[T3]

Momcinda thinks you're town, I don't.

-Malefleacent

+town I think.

This is also an really easy way to fake town as an hydra though.
"Hey Flea, if you say you scumread Norwee while i townread them it will look town, because Townie dissonance is townie. Datisi was doing it with Retti so we need to copy!!"

Oh, that makes sense. Thinking about it, they also did it in a weird attention grabbing way.

[T3]

I'm thinking Fairy/Titus/ta vera and maybe TLDOE or Dwlee.
Bingle/mastina are towny.
Emp, Norwee, GCB are town.

[T3]

VOTE: Fairy actually.

[T3]

I finished my catchup and shall declare a townbloc: T3, Norwee, Emp, GCB

Emp, Norwee, GCB are town.

could you elaborate on why you find my slot town? you only seemed to substantially mention it in 483 and 493, and those posts feel a bit... contradictory?

-D

Norwee's meta case was very compelling.

[T3]

Mastina and Norwee on my *glare* list for now.

Flea I <3 you but you're probably just scum here especially since of all the players in the game you're the most qualified for knowing that this is my towngame since you've seen me recently in my games more than anyone else and you not being able to see that I'm town here is one of the reasons why you're probably scum. </3

And that is just why you're on the glare list, not the yeet list. I'm used to you being quite confident in your opening reads, and you fail to have quite same force that I have come to expect here.
Given your recent play, I still hold my suspicions, but I know you will become clear to me in time.

Also, yis, is ana amazing film

As of page 14 I've disagreed with all of Fairy's reads. .-.

Amusingly most of the posts containing reads at that point for Momcindas, I believe I had only aired two people I intend to keep a rather close, unfaltering gaze on.

Momcinda thinks you're town, I don't.

-Malefleacent

+town I think.

This is also an really easy way to fake town as an hydra though.
"Hey Flea, if you say you scumread Norwee while i townread them it will look town, because Townie dissonance is townie. Datisi was doing it with Retti so we need to copy!!"

This is absolutely awful and I pray Momcinda resolves her tech issues soon so that we may take a united stance upon this.

T3 would you care to elaborate more upon your read on us?

-Malefleacent

The hydra dissonance felt like it was done in a way to draw attention to it.

[T3]

Like if I'm in a hydra and my other head disagrees with me the protown thing to do is actually say why in the thread.

[T3]

This is absolutely awful and I pray Momcinda resolves her tech issues soon so that we may take a united stance upon this.

How is it awful? It’s an genuine strategy i’ve even done myself with Gamma in a scum hydra.
Are you claiming this is an impossible thing for scum!you to do?

And that therefore proves the rule? False dissonance to generate townreads upon us? As opposed to "Well yes there is a disagreement on reads, but we will resolve this between us and act accordingly"

Given that Momcinda has ongoing technical issues which had lead to a struggle in us being even able to communicate effectively with each other, there will be dissonance for a short while, and I am proverbially leading the charge here. Momcinda's reads are all in the thread, she has discussed none with me as yet.

-Malefleacent.

Ah. UNVOTE:

[T3]

t3, could you talk about your meta read on me? mostly, why you thought i was town and why that one post changed your mind on it?

-D

In the recent games I've played with town!you you're mostly posted 1-3 liners and not quoted other players meanwhile scum!you has responded to other player's posts a lot and walls. You did both this game.

[T3]

Secretiveness with reads is almost always towny.

Maybe, but that post was being secretive wrt mechanics, not reads...

-S

Ah, true.

[T3]

I'm not sure if I'm liking T3 because he's town, or because he's saying all the things I'm saying.

I would definitely be more comfortable with the former. In my experience T3 tends to make equally good points as both alignments, I think?

-S

I've played 1 game with you and that was us as scumpartners so uh I'm not sure where you're getting town!me makes equally good points unless you know I'm town this game.
Although secret alts exist.

[T3]

right. boring question first - feelings on my slot?

I donut know. I am happy that you stood up for me on my entrance, but I'm not sure you would know how bad that could have gotten if nobody had, so I can't give you that many points for it.

Norwee shitfight has minor TvT vibes, but not incredibly so? I guess "deliberately provoking a fight to distract the thread" is one of those thing that you would do as scum that most people wouldn't, but picking someone who's liable to jump into a tunnel is risky.

I think it's good form that you voted me and then later asked for my thoughts. It shows at least some level of actually caring about having an accurate read on me.

Retti feels like basically a mini-you. Given that, and without experience, I don't trust my ability to read them at all.

Overall maybe mild townlean?

-S

I'm pretty sure I know who Retti is but their play is different to their main so delving deeper into that won't help.

[T3]

VOTE: Titus

Current strongest suspects are Titus + Limit, but Datisi thought S_S was pinging townie (I didn't see it personally, think they've been quite lacking overall).

I know I just mentioned vaguely suspecting Bingle but he'd be a vaguely distant third suspect I don't feel great about. Maybe I'm just prone to feeling recency bias because he's here and saying things right now. Need to hear more from ta vera, cass.bruant slot needs to exist in the game in some way.

-R

Hmph, noting this seems out of left field and happens to come when I am away.

VOTE: Titus
Every time I read one of her posts I want to post this gif

[T3]

@mod the VC was wrong in that I'm not voting for Titus but now it's right so I guess don't change it?

[T3]

Does Flea The Magician have an alignment preference?

I don't remember this but I imagine the hydra doesn't like scum collectively.

I don't want to eliminate them on D1 even if they're scum tho. <3

I would recommend reading post 1 before you continue claiming that bingle has scumclaimed.

I have read it and I still think that Bingle is scumclaiming for a very specific reason that I shall not elaborate on until Bingle elaborates on the details of his role PM.

That said even if he didn't scumclaim I'd be voting him here anyway because I legit think that Bingle's just scum here.

I'm leaning town on Bingle but it's probably best if I sheep and not make you elaborate. VOTE: Bingle

Why? It's not like mastina's a PR, so why vote a townread?

Titus: elim the 3 nonposters
Me: *votes Titus*
Titus: why vote

[T3]

VOTE: Titus
I townread your entire hero solve and the third one is me. Picking three names and none of them being scum is what I think happened here, and I think that is scum!indicative for Titus.

I like this post and I don't know why but I like it.

[T3]

As of page 14 I've disagreed with all of Fairy's reads. .-.

Hmm I think I can see T3 town. This doesn't feel like Guardians!T3.

-S

I can't really discuss this without knowing what you mean by guardians. Meta is crap. From my experience, T3 is more lighthearted as town. I feel I can meta him well, it just has little value.

Guardians of the Fortress, I was scum.

[T3]

She never said anything about the scumclaim being due to claiming no potions. Where did you get this from?

She explicitly said I scumclaimed by saying that I had ingredients while asking schadd if there was a way to give ingredients to other people. I asked this because the ingredient I have is useful only in a potion of harmography and I would have immediately tried to instigate the creation of another potion of harmography. This is explicitly not the case as schadd later confirmed via pm that this is mechanically a real semi open (it’s not actually, due to flavored role pms, but whatever) and that there are thus no other town or scum power roles, such as someone who could combine ingredients into potions.

I believe the ‘scum slip’ mastina is going on about is an interpretation based on the absence or presence of ingredients associated with potions in one factions role pms and not the others, which frankly doesn’t make sense.

In order for the formatting of the role pms to mismatch that much, it would have to be a conscious choice by schadd to have scum and town use role pms that are formatted aggressively differently for no reason, which would suggest a conscious effort to make his game breakable by role pm comparison.

In case this is easily solveable via the inclusion of sample role pm’s:

@mod: would it be possible for you to generate a potionless sample town pm and a sample town pm with two pain potions and a potion of harmography? If possible, could you generate the same sample pms for scum, redacting non public information as necessary?

Note: I’m not arguing that this makes me town.

What do you think of my hero solve?

It's possible, I suppose, but I don't think it's particularly likely atm. Of the three I'd be most willing to vote Dwlee.

What are your reads outside of the hero solve? Particularly interested in the mastina read. I'm inclined to think she doesn't go for a "HA! SCUMSLIP!" argument as scum when she would inherently know that I'm not scum and thus that the slip isn't real. There is the possibility that she's leaning into a shitpush to get people to dismiss her as wrongtown here, but that really doesn't feel like the goal behind her posting.

What do you make of T3 individually? I actually think T3 has been fairly town this game. He has a similar presence to the draft game and his conclusions pretty closely match mine. I get that you think he has bad associations with NorDwlee, but is there anything about his individual play you're scumreading?

Bingle with the townposting!

[T3]

Titus's herosolve is entirely based on the fact that I townread Norwee and she hasn't expressed any reasoning for scumreading me independent of that.

[T3]

At this point I don't think scum Bingle has any need to fake a meta townread on me.

[T3]

What do you make of T3 individually? I actually think T3 has been fairly town this game. He has a similar presence to the draft game and his conclusions pretty closely match mine. I get that you think he has bad associations with NorDwlee, but is there anything about his individual play you're scumreading?

Disagree. T3 has been hyper serious which is more equal to his scum game than his town game. Compare Situation Room versus Not Quite Normal Multiball.

Most of the conclusions are similar from slot to slot as the game is largely townreading the same block (GCB, Emperor, you, mastina) Midtier (TLDNE, Fairy) and then lurkers/PoE pool.

Each player might add or remove one name or add one name but this is largely consensus. Agreement is not a reason to TR a slot.

Not Quite Normal multiball was an extreme where I joked around and then replaced out. Also, this game was a replace-in [no time for RVS]

[T3]

What do you make of T3 individually? I actually think T3 has been fairly town this game. He has a similar presence to the draft game and his conclusions pretty closely match mine. I get that you think he has bad associations with NorDwlee, but is there anything about his individual play you're scumreading?

Disagree. T3 has been hyper serious which is more equal to his scum game than his town game. Compare Situation Room versus Not Quite Normal Multiball.

Most of the conclusions are similar from slot to slot as the game is largely townreading the same block (GCB, Emperor, you, mastina) Midtier (TLDNE, Fairy) and then lurkers/PoE pool.

Each player might add or remove one name or add one name but this is largely consensus. Agreement is not a reason to TR a slot.

Not Quite Normal multiball was an extreme where I joked around and then replaced out. Also, this game was a replace-in [no time for RVS]

You also joked in Deco, or was that "an extreme" too?

No.
Point is, I replaced into this game on page 20 when RVS was over, so I immediately started solving.

[T3]

I also feel T3's attempt to fuck up the VCs was scummy as hell.

You're reading way too deep into that.

[T3]

I also feel T3's attempt to fuck up the VCs was scummy as hell.

Oh, weird. I assumed the potions had a constant ingredients list based on the OP.

Bingle is townish I think for this. Because there's obvious town motivation but I think scum haveno need to do this.

[T3]

townbloc: T3, Norwee, Emp, GCB

Ok, i’m fine with it for now.

I have issues with T3 in there but the latter 3 are fine users of the Force

Wagon purity reads are mostly bunk.

-R

Agree. Even if all 4 on that wagon were town, it doesn't make the receiver much more likely to be scum imo

VCA
BAD

[T3]

I also feel T3's attempt to fuck up the VCs was scummy as hell.

You're in too deep Titus.

sRCE is townish for this.

[T3]

Give me a page 1 herosolve.

[T3]

The difference VCA creates is negligible.

[T3]

Like sure, maybe the hammervote on scum usually comes from >rand scum but it's so little it doesn't matter.

[T3]

I don't have super detailed wall reads

You have no details at all.

T3 is sorty and check his ISO and you'll see it is not scumhunting.

lolwhat

[T3]

I also feel T3's attempt to fuck up the VCs was scummy as hell.

You're reading way too deep into that.

townbloc: T3, Norwee, Emp, GCB

Ok, i’m fine with it for now.

I have issues with T3 in there but the latter 3 are fine users of the Force

Wagon purity reads are mostly bunk.

-R

Agree. Even if all 4 on that wagon were town, it doesn't make the receiver much more likely to be scum imo

VCA
BAD

The difference VCA creates is negligible.

Like sure, maybe the hammervote on scum usually comes from >rand scum but it's so little it doesn't matter.

Can you elaborate on this VCA thing? You obviously disagree with its use but I don't see a single take on whether you think Titus is scummy for what she's saying about it, and why

In general VCA makes no difference. [at least according to psyche's statidtics thread lol]

[T3]

Have you played with -S before?

A couple times, yes. We've seen all configurations except town-T3/scum-S_S.

-S

Cool

Hey T3, how are -S's posts there different from what you've seen of his usual posting in those games?

I said that?

[T3]

812: I'm asking what your read on Titus is in relation to the VCA thing, since I don't see much purpose for those posts otherwise

Oh.
Titus is trying to twist my words into a narrative of T3 is scared scum trying to mess up the VC.

[T3]

I also feel T3's attempt to fuck up the VCs was scummy as hell.

You're in too deep Titus.

sRCE is townish for this.

???

Okay, maybe the bad takes here are enough to mean they're scum ones

VOTE: T3

I know I'm bombarding you here, but I'd also like elaboration on this

Perhaps I worded that badly. He jumped to defend me from a bad push. That doesn't make him town but it's a reason that contributes to him being towny.

[T3]

Something of a weak mindmeld.

[T3]

Gonna metadive someone
at some point

[T3]

Emperor what do you think about Datisi’s twin brother claiming they disagree on Datisi’s take on me?

Twin brother?

That's cool. I have my own thoughts on their off threas discussion of the game

Does Flea The Magician have an alignment preference?

I don't remember this but I imagine the hydra doesn't like scum collectively.

I don't want to eliminate them on D1 even if they're scum tho. <3

I would recommend reading post 1 before you continue claiming that bingle has scumclaimed.

I have read it and I still think that Bingle is scumclaiming for a very specific reason that I shall not elaborate on until Bingle elaborates on the details of his role PM.

That said even if he didn't scumclaim I'd be voting him here anyway because I legit think that Bingle's just scum here.

I refuse to sit cozily in anyone's pocket!

In any case of the matter, saying I dislike scum is like saying a frat boi hates alcohol because they are being forced to drink with his brothers during the weekday, after coming off a party the past weekend and another coming up the next and oh yeah! Said brother has a project due!

Why do you think bingle is scum, slip aside. What are your thoughts on the 1v1s that have already happened at this point?

Between emperor and ta vera?

Between norwee and datisi?

I find it hard to beleive you didnt come away with a read on any of those 4 mentioned

Uh

Gaize

Im still here, i just fused with Flea!

Hello new person who is definitely not mom. I’d give you a summary and talk, but it’s 4 AM and I should probably get *some* sleep. Emperor/ta Vera/GCB probably most valuable Isis, or you could cheat with mastina’s catch-up.

Isis? Where?

Even if they weren't, im pretty sure im not letting datisi go for tooo long.

someone's still traumatized?

-D

N-no

Defintely not.

I definitely am not impacted by the sweet nothings you whispered in my ear during our time as neighbors


Up to page 20.

Not gonna dig too deep with mechanics myself but I think bingle has a solid idea, I dont get the sr on them.

Missing mastina a bit here.

Onwards to the present!

The part where Momrangal asks mastina what reads she has give me bad vibes but nothing to vote over.

[T3]

Titus is twisting my awkward attempt at a joke into literally saying that I was scum deliberately messing up the VC because I was

afraid VCA would catch me

.

[T3]

Could you elaborate on what specifically he's doing?

[T3]

Bingle is telling the truth about the potion regardless of alignment.

[T3]

Mad cap

And that, my friend, is why we should lim Titus.

[T3]

Bimgle seems like the perfect metadive candidate *rubs hands*

[T3]

From a brief skim og Bingle's meta it seems the only big diference is the amount of contenthe puts out. Scum!Bingle in DQ2 didn't post walls on players explaining his reads and most of his contentis relation to reads were bad one-liners. In comparison, town Bingle in ODM usually gave good and well thought out reasons for reads and quoted the specific posts he was reading players for. Town Bingle in Aliensitter fluffed a lot more but much of his content was the same as ODM and it only increased as the game continued. Conclusion from these 3 games: Bingle is probably town but I'll look at more of his games.

[T3]

Bingle is also aware that as a semi-nightless setup, losing a scum member, even a functionally powerless one, is a fairly significant blow and he'd have tried harder to avoid the yeet. Although you could argue that his posting was him trying to avoid the yeet.

I am in fact arguing precisely that, actually.

Well, close enough to that.

Bingle has never been this town as town on D1. He is, very deliberately, very specifically, putting in more effort than normal.

His mechsolving is nai, sure. But I'm not bothered by the mechsolve work he put in. He'd put in that mechsolve work regardless of his alignment.

What I more mean is the likes of this:

All of these lines of interaction seem to me like they're aimed at going no where. You've got the noncommital question about a 'townslip' that has already been called out (It wasn't a townslip, btw, it was a question scumNorwee could also have had), a "That's NAI.", generic comments about nothing (meta can be good), and a nothingburger response to Norwee's meta. Also, the mechstuff, even if prompted.

It feels more like she wants to be seen as doing something more than actually wanting to do something.

This is a level of hard push that is rare from Bingle as town--not impossible, but rare. The reason why? He said it himself:

OTOH, I'm in a lobby that has 0 names I'm amazing at reading.

Bingle doesn't have an amazing ability at reading names in this lobby, so the strong push on ta vera is out of place.

As far as towncasing, I've spoken a little about Emp, but I suppose I could go into detail.

DR Green has been waffling, but not in a way that makes it seem like they're willing to take any side in an argument. They have consistently had the most salient opinions on IGA fmpov and the things they've poked at all seem to be going somewhere (contrast ta vera). 109 for example looked like Dats was actually trying to find motivation. 144 is an admittedly weak push, but when asked about it Dats didn't back down and elaborated on his thoughts. There was a train of logic behind the push AND the followthrough to actually try to get discussion going from it. And then he went and turned the confrontation into a chance at reading me, not an accusation but an honest attempt at reaching out.

125 was also fairly town in that it's something I don't think scum thinks to fake. If scum is going to put the effort into pushing lurkers, I'd expect it to be on a lurker that actually exists in the game. "But Bingle," you say, "The fact that Dats thought Dunn WAS in the game makes that NAI!" Sure. But scum also doesn't make that post having realized he isn't. Scum either drops the Dunnstral case anyway and we all point and laugh and say "Silly Datisi, there's no Dunn in this game, you must be town." or scum just leaves the whole thing alone and doesn't post it at all. The former would be better for optics and the latter would be better for effort. Instead, Datisi is being naturally open with his approach to the thread, meaning he doesn't have the intention of hiding things.

Teal Dear:

GCB has consistently shown a town approach to the game.

This is a second read that Bingle has gone out of his way to give--on D1. The read on ta vera was already a stretch and this stretches it even further. Bingle is usually far more, for lack of better terminology, reserved when it comes to reads. He doesn't usually go in this much depth. Once was already unusual. Twice even more so.

The main things I like from Emp, along with his back and forth with ta vera which went over several posts and mostly boiled down to prompting her for actual content while she was catching up. I disagree that 8 was town indicative (Norwee is smart enough to ask non incriminating setup clarification questions publicly as scum) but the thought process that it would be town indicative isn't an unreasonable one. Further, the thought process of "I think thing X is town, Person Y thinks thing X is town, and I don't see a reason for Person Y to point out that thing X is town" is altogether far more towny than the generic "I think thing X is town and Person Y thinks thing X is town". It shows a level of paranoia as to GCB's motivations that I think is unlikely to be faked by scum as a throwaway read in the early days.

The wrongmeta application to me similarly makes sense. DNC 2 was one of my only real recent scumgames (the only other one that pops into mind is the game about Russia and nukes where I repped into a literally solved gamestate and cried a little that I didn't get to play scum with Ali for longer) and he's 100% right that my entrance there was very different to my entrance here. Comparatively I have quite a few recent towngames that are more in line with this game. He didn't take into account that DNC 2 I mostly avoided mechspeak because the majority of the game had just had the mech speak conversation and thus didn't need it again, as I pointed out by telling him to look at the contemporary game of lovers and losers 2 where I didn't engage in mechspeak because we accidentally broke the game and had to reroll based on leveraging mod info to locktown a player. (Which, to be fair, was 50% my fault and 50% llamafluff's fault.) In both cases I didn't mechspeak because I already had.

Still though, his conclusions were supported by the given evidence, which he definitely went to go find, and he didn't appear to be blowing smoke up my ass (which would be unlikely from someone who meta'd me as I'm LESS likely to townread people who townread me). The waffling on me seems like genuine cogdis where he's trying to reconcile two different opinions and can't quite line them up, which is very hard to fake well as scum.

But then he does it a third time.

I frankly do not believe that Bingle as town cares this much and puts this much effort in as town. Not from a player who in the past, as town, has repeatedly told me over multiple games something to the effect of "I am lazy on D1", so to speak. Bingle as town does not effort this much. He doesn't get these strong of reads, described this strongly. As town, Bingle is far more "reactive", but in this game Bingle is being proactive. You can see this in full effect by taking a look at his iso here. His cases in that game, such as they were, were pretty exclusively one-liners. The closest he got to cases not one-liners was him giving quotes (mostly in spoilers) to give context and elaborating on statements he had already previously made. Very very reactive.

The same holds true for this game, too--Bingle was fairly casual and reactive in nature, rather than proactive and serious.

And the same holds true for this game as well--Bingle was casual and reactive. His posts were short and usually one-liners with little in the way of casework done to look town.

Every time Bingle has been town has been similar. Fairly casual, lighthearted, and reactive. Giving reads and reasons but not bothering with a proper readslist with detailed lengthy explanations on players.

The fact that he's doing so in this game is, explicitly, because he is scum.

Thing is, you aren't looking at any of his scumgames. He puts in even less effort as scum and doesn't wall at all. Both scum and town Bingle are casual and reactive, but town Bingle will occasionally effort a wall but scum Bingle won't.

[T3]

Metagood.
Unless you're usually sorted by meta and you have the capability to do something to change it, in which case metaNAI.

[T3]

Bingle played very similarly in Bus Service, nothing new there.

[T3]

Same goes for redneck.
So this isn't scum or town Bingle from what I've seen.

[T3]

Pretty sure mastina being this sure of herself is +town. In ODM she was active, had a herosolve and was set in her way meanwhile in Yakra she did basically nothing and was PoE'd.

[T3]

GCB seems to have dropped off the face of the earth, still town though.

[T3]

Nothing new from M980 Bingle except for slightly more effort.

[T3]

The part where Momrangal asks mastina what reads she has give me bad vibes but nothing to vote over.

Yup, since:

Green Cap Boys

The Emperor
ta vera

NorwegianboyEE

{The Limit Does Not Exist, Dwlee99, Titus}

cass.bruant

Fairy Circle (hydra of Momrangal and Flea the Magician)

Bingle

Rough readslist. I realize it's not great but is all I've got.

This was within the first 20 pages.
So, too, was me saying I was having difficulty getting reads, for that matter.

Now, admittedly, said readslist is a bit obsolete, my plan was to update it once caught up (which I'm obviously close to), butstill, I had in fact given reads by the point in time asked about. Just like Norwee was guilty of asking this of me last game when he was scum, Momrangal is guilty of asking this of me this game, too, and unsurprisingly, I think it comes from the same alignment in both cases.

I gotta leave now for a different engagement sadly in spite of being close to caught up, will finish it later but for now:
Green Cap Boys

The Emperor
NorwegianboyEE
(there's very little separating these two tiers btw)
ta vera/RCEnigma
Titus
cass.bruant/T3

Dwlee99


The Limit Does Not Exist




Fairy Circle

Bingle

(will finish when I get back)

Why is Titus high?

[T3]

Thing is, you aren't looking at any of his scumgames. He puts in even less effort as scum and doesn't wall at all. Both scum and town Bingle are casual and reactive, but town Bingle will occasionally effort a wall but scum Bingle won't.

What?
I’ve seen him efforts walls as scum.

Btw Mastina is town. Like 100% sure now.

I've only looked at 2 of his scumgames.

[T3]

Titus is twisting my awkward attempt at a joke into literally saying that I was scum deliberately messing up the VC because I was

afraid VCA would catch me

.

This is probably just standard moon logic town!Titus.
I’m not sus of them anymore.
Scum!Titus is a lot more confrontational and probably wouldn’t have backed off me in that manner. It seemed genuine.

UNVOTE:
Fair.

[T3]

Also Dwlee. Does this actually remind me of my play in our previous game?
Like, i try to close the gap. But my energy is just completely energy when i am town VS as scum.
Like when Mastina tunneled me in that previous game i tried to stay tough but really i was crying myself to sleep everyday. While here i just feel intense and willfull pretty much the whole way. I can’t fake that as scum, believe me i’ve tried.
I’m just not good at handling pressure when scum. That’s like the cheat code to catch scum!me.

I accidentally clicked onnT3’s wiki page and i’ve never been more happy for an misclick.

*robot weeb noises*

[T3]

I don't think I've ever seen town Titus do such a strange case. And honestly when Titus sounds like she's full of shit she's probably scum.

[T3]

This is sort of reminding me of LN235 but Fairy is saying this is town Titus?

[T3]

h u h

[T3]

Have you played with Titus before now? This is literally screaming townTitus

how is this game *screaming* town!titus? i can see a townlean because she does vaguely remind me of some towngames, but i feel like "titus is doing something" isn't a good basis to read her on, so i'd like to hear why you think she's obvtown here (also for my own and everyone else's sanity, i am ignoring the second part of this post)

for the record i really disliked the "t3 is scum because trying to fuck with vca" but i can kinda see it coming from town!titus so whatever.

I was on the fence about committing to defending Titus tbh but after jumping around a bit I'm on board with town in Titus, norwee.

Maybe gcb and maybe emperor.

similar q, why is titus town? and why are these two maybes?

i think i'm thinking t3 is town? maybe it's the fact that i can actually follow his thought process now and it makes at least a little bit of sense, maybe it's the fact that i finally have my "automatically scumreading people with no avatar" bias removed. who knows.

i should at some point go back to my last game with scum!norwee for a sanity-check, but he's not getting yeeted today anyway so i have an excuse to procrastinate on that, yay

bottom of page 32, i need to go do something else for a bit because my brain is refusing to focus on this game further, will return Soon(tm).

-D

I try to be completely transparent with my thought process.

[T3]

You know what?
VOTE: tldoe

[T3]

My poe is like
RCE TLDOE FAIRY Dw Bimgle?

[T3]

This is probably just standard moon logic town!Titus.

It definitely feels typical of town-her. I don't think I've seen her as scum in a while; does she do a good job of replicating it?

-S

Scum Titus was kinda weird in Situation Room and accidentally TMI'd something from the scum PT

anybody with experience with bell would kill bell because when he's town he might as well be an IC

+1 it was probably suggested by the deep scum.

Scum Titus was also... weird in LN234 but nothing I can really quantify.

[T3]

You know what?
VOTE: tldoe

The limit does ot exist?

-S

Typo.

[T3]

I remember the dead pt in LN234 saying "huh looks like Titus is scum she sounds weird"
But if you're asking whether Titus did any very strange cases in her recent scumgames, then no.

[T3]

mastina is tunneling Bingle because meta.

[T3]

I did some research of my own and got nothing.

[T3]

coffee sus

[T3]

TLDNE is really just a PoE scumread. RCE's last game was Flavor Leaf vs. Hectic so his meta may have changed a lot. I'll see.

[T3]

Scum should not actually kill a player tonight. Arsonist >> Goon. It's a pretty trivial understanding, but putting their shots into three separate players is better for scum because it denies us information right now and doesn't negatively impact their turns to win.

having played as scum in the last run of this setup, can confirm. this, coupled with the fact that town was aimlessly running around and causing damage, let us have three kills on n2, and town was basically in an unannounced 2v6 lylo on d2.

i'm a bit tired so i'm glazing over the mechwall somewhat, but bingle's plan sounds alright. will let retti know to look over it for me later though.

GCB seems to have dropped off the face of the earth, still town though.

was there a point in posting this?

modorator notes

Please

schadd r u ok

i'm realizing how i'm scumreading both mastina and lilith, and how it would be kinda funny if they were scum together, because it feels like the only think mastina is talking about is how bingle is scum because scumslip, and the only thing lilith is talking about is how mastina is misunderstanding mechanics. if they're really both scum, i really wanna see that scum pt lmao

-D

Nothing, really. I noticed your absence and commented about it.

[T3]

Have you played with Titus before now? This is literally screaming townTitus

how is this game *screaming* town!titus? i can see a townlean because she does vaguely remind me of some towngames, but i feel like "titus is doing something" isn't a good basis to read her on, so i'd like to hear why you think she's obvtown here (also for my own and everyone else's sanity, i am ignoring the second part of this post)

for the record i really disliked the "t3 is scum because trying to fuck with vca" but i can kinda see it coming from town!titus so whatever.

I was on the fence about committing to defending Titus tbh but after jumping around a bit I'm on board with town in Titus, norwee.

Maybe gcb and maybe emperor.

similar q, why is titus town? and why are these two maybes?

i think i'm thinking t3 is town? maybe it's the fact that i can actually follow his thought process now and it makes at least a little bit of sense, maybe it's the fact that i finally have my "automatically scumreading people with no avatar" bias removed. who knows.

i should at some point go back to my last game with scum!norwee for a sanity-check, but he's not getting yeeted today anyway so i have an excuse to procrastinate on that, yay

bottom of page 32, i need to go do something else for a bit because my brain is refusing to focus on this game further, will return Soon(tm).

-D

I'm too lazy to cut the quote down.

Initially I was looking at Titus' activity and engagement as town indicative. Also Scum!Titus that I remember is way more reactive than proactive which is how I feel Titus is playing here.

For example the hero solve whether you agree or not. Also I noticed before getting into any wagon analysis in 600 I thought they were throwing early wagons out to see what sticks and who bites on what which is less of a scum inclination and not a line I expect scum!Titus to take.

The caveat is like, if Bingle!scum then Titus!scum becomes a real possibility but I don't want to die a slow mechanics death so I won't think about it rn.

Gcb was mostly from the norwee engagements and emperor I had some (not mind meld) like.... We were going in the same direction so the processes were there if that makes sense. Also afaik you're both consensus townread and not high priority to sort today so I'm good just....not doing that too much.

The point about Emperor I would think is more likely to come.from town.

[T3]

Would you be willing to vote TLDNE wjith me?

[T3]

Would you be willing to vote TLDNE wjith me?

you’ve explicitly stated you don’t have any actual reasons to scumread us other than poe. so why are you inviting others to join our wagon?

- lilith

I don't see any better option right now.

Fairy is leantown for the defense of Titus.

[T3]

This is sort of reminding me of LN235 but Fairy is saying this is town Titus?

oh? i thought you were disagreeing with fairy here on titus being town.

I do disagree. It was a noticeable but ineffective defense. Usually not something to come from scumpartnes.

[T3]

You joined to commit aggravated assault with a glass bottle.

[T3]

implies that bingle has a potion....with an ingredient. did he claim to be potionless and i missed it?

I am indeed potionless, and claimed such far earlier. My role PM had the ingredient of poison as both confirmation method and as flavor, similarly to the broken box of potion bottles.

I'm also absolutely convinced that mastina is convinced that she's right, which means I think she's town.

MBOS games usually have lots of noise and the poison could be just noise.

[T3]

Serioisly though does anyone townread Fairy Circle? I feel like that could be scum indicative. As in they are not being too townie and none of their teammates would wanna openly townread them if scum here.

Fairy/Titus isn't s/s, but if Titus is town then Fairy is scum.

[T3]

Green Cap Boys
The Emperor
T3
NorwegianboyEE
Dwlee99
Bingle

RCEnigma
Titus
mastina
Fairy Circle

(Unordered between tiers)

Here's where I'm at. If Titus is town I'm just at the other three in there being evil by PoE. In the top list I could see me being tricked by maybe the emperor? I feel good on Norwee, the cap boys, and bingle. T3 I think is townie but my worry is that he seems townie cause he is trying too hard. So a list including confusing slots would be

Green Cap Boys
NorwegianboyEE
Dwlee99
Bingle

The Emperor
T3

RCEnigma
Titus
mastina
Fairy Circle

VOTE: Fairy Circle

I put in a similar amount of effort in ODM.

[T3]

Scum is just Titus. I really don't get what there is to townread in her shit push on me.

I just feel like a couple of their stances seem unlikely to come from scum.

Explain which ones and why?

The listing of their 3 reads, if all town. Seems pretty bold from scum. And also pushing someone that is unlikely to ever become an elimination with conviction also feels like something unlikely coming from scum. I think Mafia generally play a bit more safe and go for low hanging fruit rather than what Titus did.

I think scum!Titus is fine with doing refuge in audacity stuff and so I refuse to townread her for this kind of thing. I appreciate that she is giving me space today but I don't feel like that is enough to feel completely good on her given that I think her push on me is bs.

It was at this moment Dwlee knew
He used meta.
Refuge in audacity is usually +town.

[T3]

You're like.. towny but also I don't have any good reason to townread you.

[T3]

Dunno atp

[T3]

Titus and Fairy are probably not aligned.

[T3]

Titus scum then scum Fairy wouldn't have defended her, Titus town then scum Fairy defending her for towncred.

[T3]

Could be t/t actually. Just not s/s.

[T3]

Blindassociativesbad

[T3]

Wait

Where is RCE actually in this game? They aren't in the plist?

RCE = ta vera

[T3]

Where I stand

LOCK TOWN never touch

Norwee
Mastina
Emperor

town. May or May not be fading

Ta Vera
Dweelee*
T3*
Green caps

STRONG ODDS WITH FLEA

Titus

left

Boongle

*conditional read, moves up with the nontouchables with a Titus red flip

VOTE: FAIRY
On further reflection, this is very scummy.
Fairy supposedly got no pings from Bingle either way in the past 13 pages and has him as a PoE scumread? And Fairy also hard scumreads Titus but then also scumreads Bingle?

[T3]

Where I stand

LOCK TOWN never touch

Norwee
Mastina
Emperor

town. May or May not be fading

Ta Vera
Dweelee*
T3*
Green caps

STRONG ODDS WITH FLEA

Titus

left

Boongle

*conditional read, moves up with the nontouchables with a Titus red flip

My god, we are chopped liver.

-S

The Limit Does Not Exist Does Not Exist

[T3]

Strong scumread on Fairy now. Also, unless scum are bussing they're going to have top-heavy readlists because of the ratio between town and scum. Fairy has 2 scumreads, one player who is being 1v1 and another consensus scumread.

[T3]

Where I stand

LOCK TOWN never touch

Norwee
Mastina
Emperor

town. May or May not be fading

Ta Vera
Dweelee*
T3*
Green caps

STRONG ODDS WITH FLEA

Titus

left

Boongle

*conditional read, moves up with the nontouchables with a Titus red flip

VOTE: FAIRY
On further reflection, this is very scummy.
Fairy supposedly got no pings from Bingle either way in the past 13 pages and has him as a PoE scumread? And Fairy also hard scumreads Titus but then also scumreads Bingle?

Also I confused Titus with mastina in this post. Disregard the last point.

[T3]

Mastina excluding the depth what do you think about bingles read consistency?

Read consistency isn't a metric I'm good at using most of the time. I can sometimes see an egregious lack of it, but otherwise I'm not the one to ask.

Thing is, you aren't looking at any of his scumgames. He puts in even less effort as scum and doesn't wall at all. Both scum and town Bingle are casual and reactive, but town Bingle will occasionally effort a wall but scum Bingle won't.

This is a fairly superficial take and imo ignores critical context.

In this case, that Bingle has far more incentive to put in effort as scum than he does as town.

True.
Your play here is nothing like Chrono Trigger so I'm comfortable townreading you.

[T3]

My locktowns are now mastina, Norwee, Emp, and GCB a close fourth.

[T3]

I got pulled away for shit and is getting lunch prepped now

But yes, I have two in my PoE. There's 11 players, so we might not even have 3 scum anyway.

Also norwee

Short version, you very clearly had an agenda in mizzys normal, and the way you approach people there who pushed you and how you pushing people and scum reading people here are starkly different.

Also youre totally genuine

LMFAO

[T3]

Why this is obviously fake:
1. Everyone's herosolves have been 3 players
2. One of the first lposts says: 3scum

[T3]

???

[T3]

Also you dropped off the face of the earth immediately after doing that.

[T3]

If anyone touches my top tier, ill be pissed

This is at least mildly +town, I'd say.

-S

I'm opening this phone post with a VOTE: T3 because apparently he fails to understand that I am not Mom and Mom is not I.

Between myself and Mom we have essentially veto'd voting for Titus and Norwee as these are our most conflicting reads.

I do have thoughts on bingle and TLDNE. But I am on a phone
It's also 10am here.
(For the record, Mom is in Hawaii and I'm in the UK, coordination is hard :p when we're 11 hours apart.)

My meds are still lightly screwing me (I genuinely hate antibiotics) but I will be coming in with my full draconic might behind me once my shopping arrives and I have coffee.


As we are at E-1 with a looming deadline, I will claim our potions.
We have 2 pain, and 1 doctor.
-Malefleacent

You're voting me for confusing you with Mom? And why exactly, is this scummy?

[T3]

sup fucks i am alive

@mastina, why do you even townread our slot anyway?

If anyone touches my top tier, ill be pissed

This is at least mildly +town, I'd say.

-S

this is mildly pinging my "scum weakly defending a townie getting run up" tell but /shrug *maybe* i'm tunneled at this point

can someone tl;dr me the fairy circle case? other than "they're not townie".

also usually i would try to take a day off but considering the deadline i'll try to check as often as possible

-D

Why does a Norwee/Dwlee/T3 solve seem likely to draw negative attention to you?

Well aside from antagonizing all three of the players involved when all three are at least a little prone to OMGUS tendencies, there's the fact that aside from maybe MAYBE Dwlee there's basically very little chance of the push having momentum to it. While scum-Titus can make pushes on players she know won't go through specifically because she knows they won't go through, this tendency is something I'd more expect if she were genuine in her belief.

Mastina, sell me on LimitScum.

Don't really need to. It's mostly POE. I have townreads on most players in the game. I don't have a townread on TheLimitDoesNotExist. This, in spite of both heads being heads that I would expect to be able to generate townreads on. They're too reserved, too passive, too not-making-wavesey. They're doing basically nothing, and certainly nothing which looks town.

Does that make them lockscum? Where an absence of doing much of anything makes them be definitely scum? No, not on its own. But when you combine it with a combination of expecting them to radiate town + everyone else looking town + their defense of slots I am suspicious of + their lackluster content + other players I'd expect to be able to read them not having lock-solid townreads on them (basically, I would expect other players who're town to be able to locktown them if they were town and yet as far as I can tell that hasn't happened) all adds up to a lean scum read.

It's nothing concrete, sadly.

---

So I may or may not be around in time tomorrow for a deadline rush. Given that, this is compromise zone where any of the 3 I want to eliminate, I will.

with 11 alive, it takes 6 to cause someone to Wet. day 1 ends in (expired on 2021-08-17 12:30:00)[/b]

As far as I can tell, 0 votes on Fairy Circle in this votecount, so:

VOTE: Fairy Circle

1/6

VOTE: Fairy Circle

2/6

VOTE: FAIRY

3/6

VOTE: Fairy Circle

4/6

So I am pretty damn sure this is not a hammer, but this SHOULD be:
VOTE: Fairy Circle

Fairy Circle is at

L-1

.

Flea, Mara, I <3 you, I really don't want to lim you D1, but I think you're scum and while I don't want to lim you D1 a scum elimination is better than a town one and I don't trust the town to eliminate scum if it's not eliminating {Bingle, TLDNE, Fairy Circle} and yours is the only among the 3 with support right now so I'm sorry. <3

That's the exact strategy scum Titus used in Situation Room while pushing me.

[T3]

sup fucks i am alive

@mastina, why do you even townread our slot anyway?

If anyone touches my top tier, ill be pissed

This is at least mildly +town, I'd say.

-S

this is mildly pinging my "scum weakly defending a townie getting run up" tell but /shrug *maybe* i'm tunneled at this point

can someone tl;dr me the fairy circle case? other than "they're not townie".

also usually i would try to take a day off but considering the deadline i'll try to check as often as possible

-D

1. Fake townslip
2. PoE
3. Norwee's gut

[T3]

Gonna try to do some math stuff with the potions...

[T3]

I might be horribly misunderstanding this but the probability of town getting 2 pain potions is about 18% meanwhile scum getting 2 pain potions is about 24%.

[T3]

If anyone touches my top tier, ill be pissed

This is at least mildly +town, I'd say.

-S

I'm opening this phone post with a VOTE: T3 because apparently he fails to understand that I am not Mom and Mom is not I.

Between myself and Mom we have essentially veto'd voting for Titus and Norwee as these are our most conflicting reads.

I do have thoughts on bingle and TLDNE. But I am on a phone
It's also 10am here.
(For the record, Mom is in Hawaii and I'm in the UK, coordination is hard :p when we're 11 hours apart.)

My meds are still lightly screwing me (I genuinely hate antibiotics) but I will be coming in with my full draconic might behind me once my shopping arrives and I have coffee.


As we are at E-1 with a looming deadline, I will claim our potions.
We have 2 pain, and 1 doctor.
-Malefleacent

You're voting me for confusing you with Mom? And why exactly, is this scummy?

Your are voting based on my activity in your post that votes for us. We have clearly said how far behind each of us are, I am 13 pages, Momcinda was 20.
Your vote is based on catching up 13 pages to gain nothing on bingle, you've voted Mom based on me.

Its opportunistic and scummy as all hell. It stinks of "Well you can't fault the reasons I have voted..." when we flip green.

> accusing me of opportunism

[T3]

So first, I was not voting you based on activity, I was voting you because that readlist looked scummy af. Bingle still existed on page 10. Also, you do realize that for all intents and purposes, you and Momrangal occupy the same slot? So you doing something scummy and being scum means that Momrangal is also scum?

[T3]

The probability of geting a doctor potion, regardless of alignment is 22%.

[T3]

The probability of this claim being scum vs town is 33% more likely to come from scum.

[T3]

Diggy diggy hole.

Yes we're a hydra, yes you read this slot based on the content of both heads, yes our potion layout is more likely to come from scum, I did some working out long before your did. Yes I have accepted we're going down.

Your vote post stated things that were explicitly aimed at one heads catchup but accused the other head.

Statistically, yes we are more likely to be scum. However. It is not impossible for town to have this loadout.

We've been given statistics and I will go pull my post for oyu.

-Malefleacent.

Ohhhh
UNVOTE:

[T3]

I don't think that's how the distribution works.

No, that's not how it works and I think everything is calculated independently.
There were 2 options:
Either this is a fakeclaim. Because Flea just pulled the math out right here, it's probably not.

[T3]

Maths is far from my strongest suit, to put it bluntly, I don't have a completed high school maths certification, I have an adults catch up basic maths certification.

I could look at it more later, but annoyingly I've been informed the DnD game I'd have ronight is now in person, and I need to haul my ass out.

That's why Wolfram Alpha exists

[T3]

Okay wait
So yes, this potion distribution is 33% more likely to come from scum. And on average scum are going to have ~3.24 potions, meanwhile town will have 2.14 potions? So this

is

more likely to come from scum than town, because I don't think it's fake.

confusion

[T3]

So the specific number of potions Fairy has is 51% more likely to come from scum, and the specific potions are 33% more likely to come from scum.

[T3]

Flea seems to have the math that says their potions are more likely to come from scum than town which makes me think they're town. WIFOM exists...

[T3]

If this is town then we lose a vig shot, if this is scum then they lose a vig shot. But scum don't have a factional kill. In total scum will on average have 4.2 pain potions. Fairy has 2 pain potions. So if Fairy is scum limming them would [on average] halve scum's killing power.
VOTE: Fairy

[T3]

Meanwhile if Fairy is town limming them would [on average] take our killing power down by just 25%.

[T3]

In a vacuum, limming Fairy is the optimal decision.

[T3]

As in, the part about you having two meaning someone has to have none (although that has been claimed).

Fairy is still scummy for the townslip thing.
Math says Fairy is more likely to be scum, yeeting scum Fairy is bad for the scum.

[T3]

Without taking math into account, that's where I'm also at.

[T3]

Man where’s Emperor at.

VOTE: T3

I feel that Fairy is getting run up solely for defending me and I don't like it.

That's... not true.

[T3]

Accidentally quoted 1141.

[T3]

I explicitly stated Fairy/Titus isn't s/s.

[T3]

VOTE: titus
Titus just lies when defending Fairy?
'I'm voting Fairy because Fairy defended Titus.'
I stated that I wasn't doing that.

[T3]

Screw trying to be organized and logical, current feelings are that I'd bet on at least 2 scum in here:

RCEnigma
mastina
Titus
TLDNE

Think some of the people there are getting far too much leeway simply for having strong opinions rather than actually being towny.

-R

can you be more specific about who in this group is "getting far too much leeway for having strong opinions"?

- lilith

Probably mastina.

[T3]

In this case mastina having strong opinions is a strong meta towntell.

[T3]

Fairy and Titus have both done weird "LOOK AT ME IM DEFENDING" defenses but never actually attempted to stop each other's wagons. [not s/s]

[T3]

pain
is Titus scum? mnehhhh probably not
is Fairy scum? like yeah maybeeee but math says they are

[T3]

I'm not terribly eager to vote Titus again. I already explained why i think they are more likely town here.

That is what I am getting at when I'm saying she's getting too much of a pass for having strong opinions, the actual reasoning behind it doesn't feel like a believable town thought process at all.

-R

Yeah. People seem to be townreading her for bad meta reasons.

[T3]

I knight thee... Sir Datisi the Townread!

[T3]

The three of them are locktowning each other based on spacious reasoning. They don't interact organically.

Where have i locktowned either of Dwlee/T3?

loltitus

[T3]

Titus: *makes up reasons*
Also Titus: why no townread

[T3]

Titus/Fairy are probably not aligned unless their defenses of each other weren't deliberate.

[T3]

Fairy and Titus have both done weird "LOOK AT ME IM DEFENDING" defenses but never actually attempted to stop each other's wagons. [not s/s]

I actually find it a bit scummy from them both that they seem to be mostly ignoring the other and their wagon.
Why would it not be S/S because they don’t try to directly hard defend each other?

They both ineffectively and loudly defended each other.
In general I don't like associatives though

[T3]

Or they could be scum doing a bad play.

[T3]

d u n n o
No way Titus flips town after this.

[T3]

Fairy's last few posts are +town.

[T3]

Even if Norwee is scummy by play the matecase for him being town outweighs that.

[T3]

VCA generally can't say with near-certainty that a player is scum, meta can.

[T3]

VCA generally can't say with near-certainty that a player is scum, meta can.

I'm going to commit arson

I present to you my metagood guinea pig, cyrus62.

[T3]

Last game with him you locktowned him when he was scum.

[T3]

I'm being trolled, right?

VOTE: Not_Mafia

[T3]

Meta good when you aren't usually sorted by it.

[T3]

eheheheheheheheh

[T3]

He was deliberately trying to play like he does as town.

[T3]

Is she this difficult/fight clubby as scum though? I've always found she almost makes

more

sense as scum and has less controversial takes.

She kinda sounds like she's completely full of shit but everything she says makes sense.

[T3]

75% of $25 is $18.75

Taxes.

[T3]

She's had multiple opportunities to back down from her "herosolve" which was recieved very badly, yet stubbornly stands by it

What's the scum-motivation?

This is what I keep getting caught up on.

[T3]

You know what, no regrets if Titus flips town. There is no way she actually believes the things she's saying.

[T3]

Classic reasons scum push town T3:
1. opportunism
2. being all over the place and inconsistent with reads
3. dunno just sounds scummy
VOTE: fairy

[T3]

Not-so-classic reasons scum push town T3:
1. trying to mess with the VC
2. townreading my townreads
3. he replaced in

[T3]

In ODM 2 scum and you (and one cyrus62) pushed me for opportunism.
In Yakra Marashu and Guillo pushed me for opportunism.

[T3]

Can you give me the tl;dr?

-S

Titus blatantly lied twice, claiming me/Norwee/Dwlee were locktowning each other and then claimed people were pushing Fairy for defending me.

[T3]

Scum me is much more careful with my vote, whoteknights, and pushes a Copacabana

[T3]

Can you give me the tl;dr?

-S

Titus blatantly lied twice, claiming me/Norwee/Dwlee were locktowning each other and then claimed people were pushing Fairy for defending me.

That's not a lie and you know it.

VOTE: T3

I feel that Fairy is getting run up solely for defending me and I don't like it.

This.

[T3]

Scum me is much more careful with my vote, whoteknights, and pushes a Copacabana

How does clear agenda autocorrect to Copacabana

[T3]

Can you give me the tl;dr?

-S

Titus blatantly lied twice, claiming me/Norwee/Dwlee were locktowning each other and then claimed people were pushing Fairy for defending me.

That's not a lie and you know it.

VOTE: T3

I feel that Fairy is getting run up solely for defending me and I don't like it.

This.

That is not a lie. If Fairy said I was bad/scum, people would view their townslip as genuine.

[T3]

I meant you defending Titus - I woreded that badly.

[T3]

Also we should make a shoot pool

Fairy Titus Limit RCE Bingle

[T3]

He woreded it badly.

Wored.

[T3]

What about mastina for shoot pool?

No.

mastina is pretty much a locktown by meta.

[T3]

Everything within me screams T3 is scum.
They're misleading, twisting and manipulating so many things and are doing everything in their power to set up chain mislims.

-F

Why is this giving me deja vu to ODM

[T3]

Everything within me screams T3 is scum.
They're misleading, twisting and manipulating so many things and are doing everything in their power to set up chain mislims.

-F

can you quote the posts where t3 does these things?

- lilith

- the end

[T3]

ok, i'll finally ask, what is odm?

Open Draft Mafia, mastina, Titus, Bingle, Flea, Dwlee, Norwee and I were in it.

[T3]

In ODM Flea was wagoned day 1. Flea treated my vote on them as a scumclaim and started pushing me, Flea was eliminated day 1 and was town. I was also town.

[T3]

Flea's response to pressure in ODM was tunneling me immediately after I voted them, eventualy making me the counterwagon. They were slightly exasperated but that was it for tone.

[T3]

Flea's response to pressure in ODM was tunneling me immediately after I voted them, eventualy making me the counterwagon. They were slightly exasperated but that was it for tone.

Same goes for Calculus. Flea was
1. exasperated
2. tunneled town me

[T3]

are you arguing for FC town here?

I'm looking to see how Flea responds to pressure.

[T3]

Did anyone else feel an sudden uncontrollable urge to buy some Schweppes after playing in this game?

They respond by calling you scum.

Pretty much ._.

[T3]

Ginger Ale.