Mini 699: Insane Asylum Mafia: Game Over

[Korlash]

*removes hat*

Uh... Hi! *nervous wave*

My name is Alan.

(Hi Alan)

*looks around* Where did that?... uh...

I uh, never expected to wind up in an Insane Asylum... To be honest this is the exact opposite of where I thought I was going... *Sees dead body on the floor* ick...

Anyways I just wanted to let you all know if you needed things I know a guy on the outside, Mr. Leland, he's pretty good at getting things. Books, magazines, newspaper, post cards, sticky notes... buttons... Well maybe buttons would take some time, but anything with words or pictures on it... *carefully steps over bodies* You should uh move these... or maybe hide them?... So we're just ingoring them for the most part? ok... Well I'm going to be over here reading what you guys scribbled on the wall... in what I hope is red paint... Pascal? watercolor? Crayon? *sniffs* Food Coloring?

[Korlash]

Hmm... Before I take my turn in the claiming line would anyone mind if I were to ask a quick question beforehand? I would have asked it had I been here but as I was not at the time... here... I couldn't... >.>

@ Corvuus: You claim to be night kill resistant. Can you tell me why or how?

[Korlash]

I really hate to say this so I will wait till Pent claims before giving my thoughts on the WIFOM I see SC trying to pull.

Funny i was thinking the same thing...

This is scummy logic. A doctor is a weak power role, so keeping a doc alive doesn't hurt the scum greatly. And since Mirth had aroused quite a bit of suspicion already, I wouldn't expect her to die, scum or town.

You have to be the first person I ever saw call a Doctor a weak power role... but then I guess that's why you're crazzzzzy!

[Korlash]

@ Pop and Farside: First off HI! *waves* second off no. Corvuus is lying and I'm going to prove it. BTW i'm the cop

Vote: Corvuus

Either tell me what makes you bulletproof or die scum.

[Korlash]

1) Guilty on Corvuus night one (But there is doubt to my sanity) Guilty on Mirth last night. (I can't say why my predecessor choose Corvuus night one but i can say he did not Choose Mirth. Apparently he missed sending in a target so I get a random one in place of it!)

2) I'm not. If there are in fact 3 millers, it makes sense to have multiple cops. Especailly if one cop is insane and the other sane. (or if they are both insane but that would just be mean D: )

I clearly gave him a chance to help prove to me he is what he says, he refused to answer. Thus he is lying. He has one more chance to get the answer right or it's over for him. However, should he get it right I have 2 more questions lined up as followups.

oh right! Not that it matters but I did breadcrumb... >.> What two pages ago?!? ha ha ha... Introducing myself as Alan with my friend Leland. That's a reference to stephen king's needful things. Alan Pangborn is the town sheriff who has to do battle with the devil incarnate himself, a Mr. Leland Gaunt. Owner and proprietor of a shop called Needful things!

I realize it's not the best reference to an Insane Asylum but I couldn't remember a Cop being in OFOTCN or Asylum so I just ran with what sounded cool to me. There's this awesome line in Needful Things where Alan says something along the lines of "I moved to the small town to get away from people acting crazy and killing each other but I have come to find out EVERYONE IN THIS TOWN IS FUCKING INSANE!" I thought it kinda had meaning here.

[Korlash]

Uh huh. So no case exists... meaning in order to even get him lynched he would have to claim... and the fact sanity issues are a problem? No wonder he didn't follow it up.

I can't and wont speak for panta but I will say this. No true blue cop would ever out himself day 2 over a guilty investigation that is mod confirmed role pmed likely an insane result. You can huff and puff about Panta not pushing his guilty all you want but unless the rest of this lot is completely crazy (ha ha ha) it's not likely to go anywhere.

Oh right, And of course in the event Corv does in fact prove to be lying about being the cop then I suppose that would mean... *gasp* That you would be scum... But that doesn't seem very plausable now does it? Uncounterclaimed doctor as scum? Even I don't buy that. This is an insane asylum... It's preposturous that we have no doctor, that's the one thing (aside from patients) most mental instituations have in bulk.

Now why don't you at least give me the chance to grill Corv here for a second. Heck I might even be nice and answer a question or two for him as well. Hell, prove I'm insane and you prove you're innocent no? I wouldn't be so quick to doubt me just yet.

[Korlash]

I have a bulletproof vest that works, at least, one time.

I too am night kill resistant. I was actually hopign you said "cheap kevlar jacket" but I guess we can work around it.

Heres what Im going to do. seeing as how most people seem to disbelieve me I think it's more important to get my flavor out then it is to help confirm you. So you tell me just how much of this matches you and how much is different.

i'm a one shot bullet proof cop, I work in the Asylum but apparently not in this wing becuase I had to apparently "infiltrate" it, which makes no sense unless it was locked down because if I work here why would I have to infiltrate anything?

The fact I hang aroung crazy people all day is what makes my sanity fall into question. Obviously if Corv is a cop and he is sane then I suppose he can't have been working in the building before hand or else he probably would hve just as big a sanity problm as I do.

Also I knew it might be dangerous so I thought ahead and brought with me my jacket.

Third, I thought cops who don't investigate somebody didn't get innocent/guilty results on a random person.

I can't say anything abotu yoru first two statements but I can say about this. There's really nothing I can do to prove it but I can say that's exactly what the mod told me. So perhaps she felt sorry for me, or perhaps she considers the cop roles to be "compulsive" or what. I honestly don't know.

Oh right on the Penta thing, anyone who knws me knows I take fakeclaiming very seriously. I would never fakeclaim something that could be traced back to my predecessor. You can believe that or don't.

First off. I am not sure what to believe. A cop that is NK immune feels broken to me. Korlash and sanity can be an issue. I need to read Penta again to see if he pushed a corv case. Also I would like some flavor from Korlash now on his role.

sadly the only reasonable excuse for why I have a jacket would have been in the event we had no doctor. However the more I tihnk about it Mirth doesn't sound like a 100% up to date doctor. Perhaps the jacket is a way to balance it a little for the town and give them just a small bit extra chance to save their cops?

Kor, who said anything about Penta claiming day 2? He had a chance to push a Corv lynch without claiming. He didn't. He attacked SC instead. If there are sanity issues he didnt attempt to test them.

You can't push a case that doesn't exist and isn't good. You say Penta said something along the lines of "he doesn't feel the case on Corv is any good" I don't care if you're a sane cop with a guilty or an insane cop with an innocent, or an NYPD blue officer with a doghnut you only have to ways of pusing a lynch. Either with a case or by claiming. No cop in their right mind would push a crap case becuase it might backfire on them and force them to claim. And when sanity issues are involved it's just not worth it.

Sigh I had a doc and a one shot in my game as a mod before. Not hard thing to imagine. It's a lot of WIFOM if you start thinking about it. I think the best thing to do is look at each person

Was yoru game a night at the insanity clinic? I mean that's kinda the point of this game, to be insane...

Me, I work on the process of elimination line of thought. If corv is sane cop then we can scratch SG off (for now... we could argue GF or something later) if I'm to be believed then that could cross Mirth off. (again GF arguments later)

so that leaves us with 4, minium of 2 scum... 1 vanilla, 1 theif, 2 millers.

Questions I either need answered or have to go look up. Whichever comes first. What was the order in which the millers claimed in? What was Crazy's "soft claim"? And who stole the cookie from the cookie jar?

[Korlash]

*cough* That should be SC not SG... honestly i'm willing to lynch sg just so the confusing nicknames stop.

And

Unvote:

[Korlash]

That does... It means the proven miller claimed last. Also what was the part about death miller? Did he claim regular miller first then switch it to death miller? Because I have to be honest with you a death miller does sound slightly too insane for this game.

But uh, thanks! ^^

[Korlash]

Hmm that's a hard one... he has managed to say he comes up guilty to cops and flips scum yet is still town...

And I mean if I were to fake a miller claim I would do it in the random phase and include some believable flavor.

He does say "There could be cops" but I mean it's very hard to make that phrase without pluralizing cops... so that doesn't prove anything. (About him or us)

However... This could very well be linked to crazy. darn I need to go read day one again... Until I return! Excelsior!

[Korlash]

"In the blur between metal and flesh, Memnarch found madness."

MEMNARCH!... >.> Sorry... sorry... that one caught me a little by surprise...

[Korlash]

"Metal World"
Metal Landscapes Sleep
Iron Reeds Twist in the breeze
The Perfect Domain

Ha! Now I'm safe from the lynch tie!

xD ok seriously I'm going to go do something productive now...

That's thoughtful, but not very amusing. I like to laugh. Did you take a look at my rules? While they are mostly standard, I do do a few weird things

[Korlash]

I hate this goddamn nightmare of a game. I've never played with Korlash before, so without beforehand knowledge of how he plays, I'm tempted to say that it's WIFOM that Korlash says he wouldn't fake something traceable back to his predecessor.

Would you like a link to my profile? My "job" has been fakeclaim extrodinaire for over a year now. How about to my wiki page? i have a nice little secion devoted to my fakeclaims. Sadly I'm too lazy to expand that section. I'm hoping one day to include the actual fakecalim, game number, and how it played out.

None of this proves anything in the long run I suppose, but if you are havign doubts I suppose it might make a differance.

I can't make any sense of Crazy's claim either, but probably because I would think a thief would know what he's stolen. I'm trying not to play mod WIFOM, but it doesn't fit with soft-claiming a fourth miller on Day 1, regardless of whether or not it's a day start and/or if he got a head start.

My current suspicions involve him too. If all three mllers claimed at once, and his soft claim was to actually soft claim miller, then that doesn't prove he was soft claiming thief, just watching his back.

I'm also thinking Pop saying he Had a ueless gun could have lead to a fake theif claim. But theres no real guarantees of that.

[Korlash]

*breaks down and crys* wahhhh... Mod didn't like my poem... ;_;

Oh, it was very poetic. Just not funny. I'm assuming it wasn't meant to be. And I know I'm totally abusing haiku by asking for funny ones, but, you know what they say

haiku are easy
But sometimes they don't make sense
Refrigerator

And now I need to stop talking, lol.

[Korlash]

... *sighs* No you are SG from now and and Shadow girl is Shadow or Girl... >.> Stupid letters... *rants and knocks things over*

Ding Ding Ding. We have a winner.

=D What do I win? A pony! Please tell me it's a pony! Oh a pony! wait no cake! yeah just the cake.

[Korlash]

Not sure. Her role could be anything. she could only have a 50-50 chance of saving someone, she could kill her patient if they aren't targeted for the kill. She could die herself for whatever reasons.

And it could be she saves soeone if they aren't targeted for a kill, but kills them if they are! Talk about insane!

I like the 50-50, maybe kills or saves her target idea. It makes the most sense.

2ndly: i have reread some of crazy and have come to certain conclusions. 1) I believe SG for now. (And that's Girl not you Coug... >.> blah...) What Juls did was risky if scum, although to be honest that would be the only thing he could have done as scum... a high payoff risk.

Sadly this leaves me with Pop, Farside, and Crazy as the process of elimination dictates. So that is where I start...

[Korlash]

Oh this coming from the guy who said "I hate Forbiddan for giving me this WTF role!" You honestly have a hard time believeing I was given a random result on night 2?

And I think it's more along the lines of he never sent in a target, not he choose not to investigate someone. That's a big difference. I'm pretty sure if Penta had sen in "I target no one" I would not have recieved a target.

[Korlash]

Insane doctor with two one shot bullet proof cops of varying sanities makes as much sense as three millers.

I mean considering your role is sopposedly so shockingly unbalanced toward the town I find it very hard to believe you're finding it so hard to believe there are two cops with bullet proof vests. And anyone who thinks a 50-50 doc is anything but balanced AGAINST town has another thing coming.

[Korlash]

I uh, was taking a gander at the rules here recently because I feel so entranced by that violet color text... uh... *blinks*

Anyways I happened across this little beauty:

7) If someone has a night action and fails to send it in before night ends, they will take a randomized night action.

So HA HA HA *swish*

Korlas: 1
System shock: 2
...
Fallout: 3... Ok I'm done now...

[Korlash]

1) I'm not so quick to believe anything. Corv hasn't responded to my last statement so it's still possible to change my opinion on him. I have an investigation result on Mirth so it's well within my right to believe that however I want. If you were a cop who believed you were sane would you not old an innocent investigation in much the same way I hold my guilty/

2) The presence of a Doctor who has a chance of not being able to protect the cops does, in my opinion, help justify the vests. If I am to believe Corv, and thusly believe his PC, then it seems his role had incentive to claim early. A cop being forced to claim early has only Doc protection for survival, if the doc has a chance to not protect anyone then the cop is screwed. In that aspect I think giving the cop a fighting chance is not only balancing the role itself, but the entire game. I suppose giving me a vest is a way of balancing the two cops, although I suppose my role would have best been without the vest however that would have created false readings between the two cops.

3) What if the hooky pooky really is what it's all about? Did you ever think of that?

[Korlash]

Have you reread the game?

I'm insulted and demand to know what you are incinuating! are you impying I am a bad replacement? I am filled with such utter disgust and... my mouth is all dry... and my foot itches!

<.< Also no, I have not "reread" the game. reread implies reading it twice, I have not had the time to read it twice... I have reread Crazy...but that's only one person...

[Korlash]

Not entirely no.

[Korlash]

Kor: You said I didn't answer/respond to something, I don't see what you are referring to in all the posts above. State it again plz.

You should quote where I said this so I'm not confused. I recently mentioned you haven't responded to my last statement in which I was refering to the fact you had not posted since I did my flavor claim. It's nothing bad on your part, simply saying that I am awaiting yoru respnce to my claim.

Someone mentioned possibility of multiple cops early game but I can't seem to remember or find it.....anyway...

Pop mentioned it in his claim, however it was a specific phrase that was almost impossible to say without infering to the word "cops." which is plural and thus implies multiple cops.

Having a "thief" (RB) seems more of the odd one out than having 2 cops but why compulsive?

Holy crap... Why would he be called a "compulsive" thief? Rule 7 cearly states we are all compulsive, why does he actually get called compuslive? It makes no sense...

but for all i know SC could be 'scum immune to investigation' and the helpfulness of the cop role is reduced to almost nothing due to miller/possible scum roles/fakeclaims/insanity, etc.

I agree a GF immune investigation role is likely we cannot resort to worrying about it in a possible LYLO.

Kor, is there anything in your pm that tells you whether you are a 'always guilty' cop or a 'always opposite' cop? One is useful the other... well might as well let FL randomize the target for you. Depending on your answer I may (or may not) want to lynch Mirth.

There is nothing in my pm that suggests naive or paranoid. However, like I said, there is a part that mentions me hanging around crazy people all day makes my investigations questionable. However this suggest insanity, which means the opposite result. (Meaning Town get guilty, scum get innocent)

[Korlash]

Why did Korlash think Corv was scum for him having NK immunity and then also admitted he had one?

Quit flailing around. That's not what happened. Go back and read it and you'll see i was clearly trying to confirm he did in fact have it. When he didn't answer the question, I felt compelled to vote. Keep trying, you might actually save Crazy today. (at the cost of yourself )

And just for reference, FL told me that there was something to balance that I had the death miller role, so I expect some overpowering but not as much as there seems to be.

And how exactly do you consider this overpowered? Two cops of different sanities but with some form of NK immunity. Meaning they can live longer but hey, their investigations might not be all that trustworthy. Or are you refering to the doctor that might probably kill the person she protects? Becuase that is so overpowered for the town. Oh oh I know, you're talking about 3 millers, one of which is a death miller! Yeah that is so in towns favor. Or a RBing theif that has the potential to flip scum? No sir, I see virtually nothing in towns favor. And so in turn see no reason a death miller would even be needed.

[Korlash]

This I dont see how I missed it. Korlash, how did you find out that Penta hadnt sent a night action?
Korlash, have you though of you being 50/50 cop?

I know right! Such a hard thing to miss. I already answered how I found out penta hadn't sent in a target, the mod told me. As a replacement it is a detail I needed to know so i suppose that is why she included it! <3 the mod!

secondly, no. It hasn't crossed my mind. I'm a firm believer in Occam's razor, and so it is far easier to believe one sane and one insane cop (In a game called INSANE Asylum mafia) then it is to believe one sane and one 50/50 cop. (Or two 50/50 cops for taht matter) You add in millers and it makes any sort of percentage cop dumb as it makes the miller role a moot point.

[Korlash]

... Ok post 1128. First you insult me as a replacmeent, now you neglect to read my posts. You sir are a very sad and angry man! i pity you!

Thoughts of Mirth being Godfather? I really think she is scum.

1) irrelevenat. In an LYLO situation town dooms itself if they begin to beocme paranoid about GFs. There are still 2 goons left alive even if a GF exists and so investigations that have no reason not to be trusted outside of a possible GF should be trusted. That's cop 101.

2) What makes you think she is scum?

[Korlash]

And where did you get the idea that Mirth could kill her targets?

Because that is one of the common forms of abnormal doctors. Just like insane/paranoid/naive are the standard forms of abnormal cops.

Of all claims, I think Crazy is the second most potential to be fake after Mirth. If he is telling the truth, then I think he has the potential to clear someone?

How so? I see no way he can clear anyone.

And 3 millers could lead to something like confirming each other, something I tried to do D1 but failed miserably.

considering you are claiming to be different from the other two millers I don't even see why you would suggest this. Also if the mod wanted roles specifically designed to serve no purpose but to confirm each other then she would have made you masons. Instead you became millers meaning you serve a diffrent purpose.

I dont see how is that underpowered.

two cops three millers, that is the recipe for town screwing itself. If you think otherwise go reread the word "miller" and the word "cop" in the wiki. If you believe Mirth is lying then the town has no doctor. The doctor is arguably tied with cop as the most important role in a game of mafia, and no repalcing a doctor with another cop doesn't make everything all eqully balanced. Can Mirth be lying scum GF? yes. But I won't lynch her today. Not in LYLO with no scum dead. Tomorrow? maybe. Another night of investigations and seeing what the scum does with their NK will be very helpful in that desicion.

If you guys are going to belive Mirth, I could go with pressing farside, my second suspect.

Yes... her claim of vanilla during a massclaim definitally doesn't cross her off the list of scum. And my process of elimination leaves her as a remainder.

Why do you think she is scum?

[Korlash]

If you were insane, then you 'confirm' mirth and I, if you are paranoid, then your investigations are meaningless... I guess I don't like how Mirth says you are paranoid and not insane but it becomes too much assumption and circular logic.

Answer me this, what mod in her brillant and glorious mind would pick to make a "paranoid" cop over an "insane" cop in a game called "INSANE Asylum mafia"? It makes no sense, and even at the risk of outguessing the mod, I believe it is well enough of a reason to trust that I am insane over paranoid. After tonights investigation I will have crossed one or the other off the list. (paranoid or insane that is)

[Korlash]

on a sidenote, I re-read the rules and this "can't" be lylo. 8 of us, even if we mislynch and a townie gets NK'ed we have 6 (with 3 potential mafia) but if it comes down to 3vs3 then the best haiku wins!!!! Man, i wonder if forbiddan planned all of this. bleh. Since then it would go to 2vs2 and the ultimate haiku battle for the universe is held.

You do realize the rule deals with deadline right? If tomorow starts with 3 town and 3 mafia, there is no deadline as mafia automatically wins. the age old mafia WC "When your group counts or half or more then half of all remaining players you win."

In this specific game if the mafia win condition is different then that then the mod really can't do anything about the rule without telling us the WC is different. So regardless of anything I can't see the rule changing or even mattering.

Now I'm confused didn't both Corv and Korlash claim one shot save only?

save only what? You sense no making are!

Kor: just because it is insane asylum doesn't mean you are insane. It is actually much more funny and bastardly if you were paranoid but thought you were insane

Doesn't matter, any line of thought that includes "The mod is a bastard" is a worthless line of thought. The game cannot progress if you distust the mod, and if it cannot progress you cannot win. So in order to even be able to win we must trust the mod. Meaning the only option I can see that makes sense is that I am insane. (or you and Mirth are scum )

But he hasnt killed Corv if she is teling the truth. So he is more 50/50 doctor.

yeah if you haven't figured this out then you don't deserve to have me tell you.

Crazy posted this : "Now here's another interesting point: the mod said that my action takes place prior to the NKs, so if I am killed during the night, I will role reveal as the person I steal from that night. So, we might as well use that to our advantage. You guys can tell me who to investigate tonight, and then, if I'm NKed, the town gets a free cop investigation."

Yeah but in order for this to work three things have to be in palce. 1) he has to be telling the truth, I don't believe he is so he's already failed. 2) The scum have to kill him. And with 2 vanilla, a doctor, and two millers left that means there are two candidates to be Nked that won't help town. So the odds of mafia Nking him are 0. 3) We would have to no lynch. That's not likely to happen.

0 out of 3 means cased closed, moving on.

Vanilla claim. Attempt to subtly push corpo's case, indecision in corpo's behaviour. Some relations with Mirth that I consider bussing (she has been suspectin her but still no vote) and her recent silence in all this paranoia.

vanilla claim is not proof of scum only lackof town confirmation. (although yes it does give you the right to be suspicious but it hardly screams scum.)
You ay have something with Corpo's lynch, i wasn't here and so either through a reread I won't get the same feelings you would have.
You can't say she is bussing someone you don't know the alignment of.
And I believe this recent discussion ahs all occured in a span of 4 hours... so her lack of posting isn't all that telling to me.

Mirth, do you have one? Does anybody?

Last I checked Mirth wasn't pushing for a lynch/wagon/vote on someone where-as you were. Throwing her question back on her like that is a sure sign of hiding something.

I do have a case. You. I think you are scum. And Ive been saying since D2 that farside makes a perfect scumpartner. I have to quote and such but I dont have time to do it right now. Tomorrow. Everyone is free to check both of you if they share my feeling.

That's not a case... That's not even an attack.

[Korlash]

- Crazy is prob what he claims to be. If he is lying then he must have prepared this lie since D1, something I consider pretty improbable, unless scum have fakeclaims or he is a genious. Could there be a scum role that makes sense with his claimed abilities?

And what exactly proves e has been preparing sinse day 1?

Theres a lot of possible scum roles. He could be a scum Rber, he could be a scum theif, hell I was even considering he could be a scum framer. I much like the RB idea the best becuase he claimed to RB people and so in the event they are town he would need to be able to prove that.

I myself can't decide between Crazy or Pop. They both scream scum to me and I feel confident about both pretty equaly. Other's thoughts on this?

[Korlash]

Korlash, did you read the tomorrow part?

Of course. But I fail to see how stating "I'll have a case on you tomorrow" proves you have one today. In fact I think that disproves you have one today.

[Korlash]

So, essentially, Korlash is right and I need to be more clear about these things. Sorry about this, I usually remember things like that, lol

Can I put this in my hall of fame after the game? =D

If you want

[Korlash]

WTF? I saw his question as "you dont have a case, Tajo". Well, she wasnt precisely the best to ask me about it because al her cases were already dead and townies and I do have a case.
So, am I suspicious for pushing a case that I think is decent and people who dont even have an opinion or have all his cases become vanilla lynches, get a free pass?. We must be living in China because the world is upside down.
You better reread, kay?

Listen man, I don't what you said in the past. I don't care if the last 20 pages has a foolproof case within it. When you're asked what your case is and you say something that looks to me like you're avoiding answering it, I don't see a case. If you had a ase, that you truely believed in, you should relish the opprotunity to rekindle it.

saying "i think you are scum" is not a case. I want facts, I want quotes, I want examples. I think you're suspcious for a lot more reasons then the fact you're pushing a case you are too afraid to back up.

Or Im busy at work and can only answer to posts in one tab. Not like 3 tabs of mafiascum like I usually do when I quote things.
I want you to reread farside and come with an opinion of her.

well then you should say "I'm busy at work and will gladly restate my case as soon as possible!" Not "I'll state it tomorrow." Now if you meant tomorrow as in RL tomorrow then I appologize, whenever I see the word "tomorrow" in a game of mafia I equate it to game days. As in tomorrow would be after tonight and thus if we are in the LYLO we may have already lost and therefore waiting that long would be worthless.

Also just to clearify we are not in LYLO, we are in mislynch and loose. LYLO implies no lynch to not be an option, in our case no lynch is an option. It doesn't matter becuse saying YLO is easier then saying Mislynch and lose but I'm a stickler for mafia terms and felt it needed to be said.

Also I want you to admit who you're mafia partners are! That's not going to happen will it?

But sure, I will read up on Farside and tell you what I think of her as soon as I get a cance. Hopefull later today (as in Monday) or early tomorrow morning (as in Tuesday)

[Korlash]

Tajo: If you think I am sane, and that Kor is insane, then Mirth should be innocent. Cop investigations (if trusted) trump all.

He believes Mirth is the GF. Gf trumps trusted Cop investigations, sorry.

On a sidenote, I still think it incredibly strange that Crazy (soft claim town power role) and Mirth (claimed doc) both did not die and not only was it not a 'claimed pro-town power role' it was *also* a miller *and* Corporate was suspicious.

I believe the Mafia left Mirth alive to push the WIFOM that becuase the claimed doctor lived, she must not be a doctor. Which would cause us to mislynch her and the mafia to win tomorrow. Then again I could be over thinking but it has happened in the past.

Also I disbelieve Crazy, explains why he is alive.

[Korlash]

Korlash, really? That was obvious tomorrow RL.

so it seems. Already appologized for my mistake so if you are expecting me to bake you cookies you can forget it! It was an easy mistake to make. Now good day sir! >.>

And I want these reasons asap.

You want me to reread Farside, you want me to form an opinion on her, you want me to state my reasons, you want you want you want. Geeze, greed is a sin man. Get over it.

However, as asking for reasons against you is something most people need to do I shall answer it now!

1) Claims the mod told you your role was to conpensate for something, that means the mod told you something about the set-up you ahd o right to know. If the question is whether the mod seriouslyscrewed up or you are lying I choose the latter.

2) Your disbelief of two cops regardless of having the word "cops" in your pm. Your disbelief in Mirth regardless of believeing I am an insane Cop. Your disbeilf of having two bullet proof cops even though you claim you were "told" your role was to compensate for something.

3) Claim of death miller. A role so seriously f**ed up that I cannot find any wordother then F*** to describe it.

4) Your fasination with Mirth, who i believe was only left alive in order to be the sacrificial goat for today.

5) You are using tthe fact you thing two people are paired as scum to damn them both. In order to use bussing as a reason you need to know one of their allignments. (I will then say that because you use that reason the fact I see a pairing between you and Crazy {Someone I think is likely scum} should be mentioned. I do not plan on pushing for partnership until one of your alignments are flipped but in the event one of you flip scum expect a case on the other to follow shortly after)

6) Actually I can't think of a six at the moment nor do i think a 6 is required at the moment. I'm sure I'll remember or see something in the future that will qualify as a 6 so I will keep this spot open.

Happy now? I'll be looking forward to you doing something similar for both Mirth and farside "tomorrow".

[Korlash]

I was back until my posts were eaten! grr...

[Korlash]

Defending Stef

How eactly was she defending stef and for what reason did Stef need said defence?

Being weak against Sly.

This just sounds like the dumbest reason I ever heard. How does being weak equate to being scum?

And thats exactly what I am talking about. You feel different. You were more logical in Ace Attorney Mafia. Your last post really makes me wonder. Also you were/are attacking weak cases (Llama's vote, my case) that have deserved votes but you are giving Sly only a fos. I would expect you to be all over him.
Also I still dont like how you implied tat Juls had to claim in her first post. That was a loaded question, IMO.
That is what feels different, Mirth.

I can't argue against meta reasons, if shes playing different then have at it. But explain to me how attacking weak cases is scummy? Any weak case needs to be either destroyed or strengthed asap before it does damage. I'd also like to see this loaded question.

Vote:Mirth for staying out of an ext decent wagon and instead asking for a lame deadline extension. And Im voting Mirth because I know her and I still think she was being deliberately weak with Sly for some reason I still dont get.

staying off a wagon is not a sign of scum regardless of how decent you felt the wagon was. Asking for deadline extension is not something scum would normally do unless it was needed to save their own. And how exactly was she being weak?

Im pointing that the mod told me that there was something else to balance the fact that I got the death miller role, paraphrasing her, there would be balance. I dont care if you believe it or not. I think its important for the town to know this in the sepcualation phase we are now.

Then we are at an impass. I don't believe you and you don't care.

I can talk about your "fascination" with Crazy and me, too. Thats not fascination. Its I think she is freaking scummy and a very prob scum. I dont know if Im wrong and you dont know if you are wrong. I think Mirth is scum, you dont but just because you disagree with me that doesnt mean Im scuj. We'll have to find out postgame.

No i plan on finding out long before postgame.

Also, if you actually felt she was scummy you wouldn't have had a problem making your "case" post on here a two sided thing. Instead you conviently only posted thing you had said, which all things considered, means you technically built a case on yourself which is worthless at this point.

The game is definitly picking up... I think I'll throw in a little something something too.

Vote: populartajo

I guess Crazy get's a pass for now

[Korlash]

How could she say that and yet never even try to lynch Corvuus after getting a guilty on him Night 1?

Because there's more then a strong implication I'm insane...

See, the similarity between the flavor of mine and Tajo's role makes me think that Tajo is way too likely to be town.

Right... And this similar flavor would be... what?

[Korlash]

Unvote:, Vote: Crazy

Let's deal with pop tomorrow...

[Korlash]

Whoah, cleared? Just because of sanity issues that doesn't mean he is cleared.

Techically it does. If Corv has no reason to think he isn't sane then an innocent on someone is enough to "clear" them for now. The only things you can argue against would be that Corv isn't a sane cop, which we need proof of in order to disprove, or that SC is the GF, which in LYLO (or Mislynch and lose) is not a factor.

[Korlash]

About? I missed the part where anyone made it apparently clear where and what he was lying about...

[Korlash]

I didn't ignore you I just feel like you need to make it more clear... As it stands I think I have a counter point to it, however if I am misunderstanding you then my point may be invalid and I've already said enough stupid things in my life.

[Korlash]

The purpose of that post was to breadcrumb, since I wasn't exactly a miller, but I had some part of my role that is similar to a miller. That's why I said *cough*

If you weren't a miller then why did you say "Or 4"? That's not a crumb saying you are "LIKE" a miller, that's one saying you ARE a miller. You can't count as a 4th miller unless you are "exactly a miller" you know what I mean? If this was a real crumb, I'm sorry man but you need to work on your crumbing...

This is why I believe that Tajo is town, due to similar flavorishness. And you guys can believe that with the Korlash/Corvuus link, so you should be able to believe it here.

I suppose I'm biased on that issue but I don't think it's the same thing... Me and Corvus match in terms of abilities, I don't think we have matched flavor at all. And of course you ahve to realize that as I think both of you are scum, the two of you having matching flavor could all be some scum ploy... SG, does your flavor include anything about "looking through possessions/things"? (Which is something to think about... I suppose it's real nitpicky but I mean why use the word "possessions" with one and "things" with the other... And I'm not saying it proves anything no, but the two seem so... different in word social status... Possessions is like a five dollar word where-as things goes for fifty cents... You know what, just forget I ever said it)

[Korlash]

-in the beginning Penta was reluctant to believe Tajo's claim and suggested he might be a townie who only thought he was a miller. Kor, what are your thoughts on this? Anything in your PM about it?

*shrugs* Not really. Did he suggest there was something in the PM?

Kor and Cor (haha I wanted to do that) both claim Cop but we aren't using 'each other' to prove each other's existence and we aren't using 'flavor'-buddying-ish (or whatever you call it). I never said or implied "Kor is a cop so that shows that I MUST be a cop as well". I said I'm a cop, Kor may be one as well since it is possible (kor said something similar about Kor being a cop and Corv may be one as well), and then we had the talk about NK resistance, sane/insane, etc. and we are convinced that the other is a cop even though our flavors aren't same.

This was very confusing as you seemed to be switching from talking in the third to first person very rapidly... I can't speak for you and your feelings on me but the fact you calimed to have the NK resistance out of the blue does help confirm you in my eyes. (I mean no sane mafia fakeclaiming cop would go out on the limb and claim bulletproof as well. That would just be rediculus.) I also think there are enough simularities in our flavor that, even though they don't match exactly, do add up. It also explains the differences in our sanities.

And of course all of that pales in comparison to my guilty on you, which is a town result. So... yeah... It would be kind of rediculus for me to even suggest you could be lying at this point.

[Korlash]

did Pop just say I was tunnelvisioning on him? Last I checked I was trying to lynch Crazy which seems kinda the exact opposite of tunneling in on Pop...

I think Crazy is town for his early breadcrumb and for the ridiculous idea of scum semiconfirming someone too easy to mislynch as me.

The fact that you atually call it a breadcrumb when it clearly isn't is interesting. How exactly is saying there are 4 millers a breadcrumbt that he isn't a miller? Also, seeing as how you are scum also, another cum trying to confirm you isn't all that hard to believe.

I want to ask you a question, Korlash can also answer, why is Crazy scum?

The first being that him (and others) seem to be putting a lot of faith in this breadcrumb that can only be called a breadcrumb if it was pertaining to a role he didn't claim. Follow that up with the fact his claim is the second least likely (next to yours) and yes I know mods can make up some crazy roles (ha ha ha... ahhh...) but sometimes when a role sounds like it's a lie... it actually is!

Other little things come up. He claims to be a theif that steals an item from people and that it matches your flavor but neither of the other millers seem to match it. what item would he steal from them? I mean I can assume he would steal my jacket if he targeted me but then he's a role that steals my NK immunity and blocks my investigation all at once while sounds way to icky to think about. In addition, a game with "3" millers in it doesn't really seem to be heading in a good set-up direction when yous tart adding in other roles that apparently F*** with cops. And last but not least a RB in this set-up seems like it belongs to the scum, and while you can say this is just my opinion blah blah blah, that's sorta what a case/point/attack/ or vote is suppose to represent right?

So in the shrot version, his claim is crap, he's holding onto a very dumb breadcrumb that actually suggests he is lying not telling the truth, and... well there was something about his playstyle when I frist started looking into him but I forgot what it was... oh well...

[Korlash]

For sake of LYLO, yeah... that sounds about right.

Pop has made it pretty clear he believes there are multiple cops and from what I have seen he seems to have accepted both our claims. Yet he has also made big movs against the two people we have investigations on, which doesn't make sense. How can he trust us and believe we are cops while also distrusting our investigations?

In my opinion, I think Pop is just trying to get any mislynch today he can lay his hands on becuase that should be all the scum need to win. I think this is painfully obvious with Mirth. (unless I'm mistaken somewhere) argues shes scum even with a cop investigation on her, in addition arguing against the only claimed doc. (beither of which really screams good town intentions) Argues she had something against Corporate, who unless I'm mistaken was the NK right? So i think Corporate being killed last night was a ploy to pin it on Mirth. Did Pop ever bring up the question "Why is the claimed doctor alive?" I can't remember, but if he did that's more evidence against it.

sadly possible consipracy theory doesn't hold a candle to weak, semi-obvious fakeclaim. So... Kinda why crazy needs to go first...

Farside... well... she just gets caught in the Process of Elimination so at this point that's very low grounds to go after her...

I am surprised the two of us seem to be ont he same wavelength there Corv...

SG: It was commented on and we don't have the same item but since I don't think it matters at this point... I have 1-shot NK immunity. So if Mirth is doc and did protect me (and succeed?) then I won't be killed tonight (well, ignoring potential craziness of what scum roles there 'are' out there).

If Mirth wasn't left alive simply to be today's scapegoat you can bet your booty scum have a RB. Then again if we lynch Crazy and I am right about him we wouldn't have to worry about that.

[Korlash]

If they are both cops : the NK immunity makes me think that there are sanity issues (otherwise that seems overpowered to have two sane cops that can't be NKed.) So basically: probably one, possibly two, unlikely to be none.

I've been thinking we probably have the NK imunity to give us a better chance to help prove our sanities. Givin that if we had investigated the millers or if I had believed I was sane, town could easily have destroyed itself by day 3. I suppose we can ask Forbiddan after the game is over.

What is the case on Coug, anyway? Something about FoSes and UnFoSes...?

I'm still waiting on SC's side of it... But I believe he said he understood Pop's case on farside before pop even made it.

What do you mean if he protected you that you won't be killed tonight? Er, I don't remember her having to send actions during day?

He means that as long as she had been protecting him he still has his Nk immunity and so it's impossible for him to be killed tonight, regardless of if Mirth protects him again. Granted there are flaws with this line of thinking but if it makes him feel safe then where's the harm in believeing it right?

[Korlash]

When the hell did we confirm your sanities and why Mirth cant be a godfather?
...
Add Coug to that godfather list.
Really, why are you ignoring him?

1) they can't both be God fathers pop. 2 GFs, 3 millers, and a theif that is investigated as another role cannot all exist in one game. It is impossible. That's just too many investigation fuck ups.

2) Both sanity talk and GF talk are non-existant in any lylo situations.(pertaining to reasons to lynch that is) The "what if your sanity is wrong" and "what if they are GFs" is doomed to fail in a mislynch and lose situation. As it stands if you see no reason to distrust the cop's calim, no reason to assume they are a sanity other then what they appear, and no hard solid evidence a townie investigation was on a GF you cannot allow yourself to argue anything on that lines during LYLO. As it stands one of them might be a GF, but they have an equal chance of being a townie. And as we have no second chance if we make a mistake and the only "evidence" is in their favor of being town, arguing they might be GF's is scummy right now. If and when we lynch one or both of the goons we can worry about the GF. Until then, any lynch that goes against a believeable cop investigation is stupid.

3) who is ignoring anyone? Last I checked I made it clear I was waiting for him to reply.

[Korlash]

Oh right, just thought of something... Might help with the whole "questonable sanity" and might help put those fears at ease...

@Corv: Did you acually get a result on Llama?

[Korlash]

So you admit you're whole argument boils down to "One of them might be scum, so let's risk a 50/59 chance of losing and randomly pick whichever one we think might be the scum?"

And no. Process of elimination dictacts farside is scum. That's hardly evidence, especially in LYLO situations. We don't have another chance after today, so we canot allow risky thinking to factor into who we lynch.

[Korlash]

EBWOP: that's 50/50... That 9 likes to sneak in to places it doesn't belong...

[Korlash]

So, tell me, Tajo, when did you get so desperate that you're basically trying to start a wagon on anyone who isnt you?

Actually he hasn't tried to start one on Crazy yet... At least not lately.

[Korlash]

Korlash, that 50/50 would be a reatarded argument to lynch someone. My whole argument is in this thread. I think Mirth is scum. I have my case all over the place. I think farside is scum. Have you at least read my case of her? ITS NOT PROCESS OF ELIMINATION. Coug just blatantly lied some pages ago and kept pushing the same lie for 1-2 pages.

If you're going to use caps lock you better make sure you're right or else you are simply aking it easier to see what an ass you are.

You said "everyone thinks farside is scum" that is false. As far as I go, it is PoE. From Corv's last post I assume it's PoE for him as well. I don't care if YOU have a case or not, "EVERYONE" doesn't.

I don't really care how much you think Mirth is scum either, because a cop investigation will overrule any case you make today. The only way to lync Mirth or Coug would be if they do something that is undenyable scum. As far as Coug's lie goes... well even I can come up with a defense for it, which is why I am so interested in his explanation. His recent posts have not done much in the way of said explaining it, but I'm willing to give him another chance.

You are just basing your decision of today in the fact that I am a death miller and that Crazy doesnt have a cool claim as Mirth.

uh huh... well think what you like, my current thought process is based on the fact you are acting incredibly scummy and have a bad claim, and as far as Crazy goes... well I just can't possibly see him as town anymore...

[Korlash]

This is the kind of quotes that makes me think that Mirth is not town.

That's funny becuase you not making an attempt at a case on Crazy makes me think you are not town. I just cannot see how someone can accept the BS Crazy has been saying over the past however many pages and not have a tiny amount of doubt. Yet you're the guy who overlooks cop investigations... Doesn't add up to me...

[Korlash]

It seems farfetched for scum to claim to come up to cops as guilty and will flip guilty if lynched?

Does his claim match yours? His flavor? His role? Are any of them the same as yours?

[Korlash]

Korlash is therefore right

Impossible!... About what?

Before i get into this, Pop can I ask you a question? Just a quick one...

Let's say, hypothetically Coug is scum and you are town. who are the other scum? This is just an educated guess on your part, holds no barreing on any cases now or in the future, I just want to see what your answer is.

so... just for fun, predict a scum team...

[Korlash]

So you are pushing a two GF theory...

It is not Coug I think is making no sense...

[Korlash]

Both Coug and Mirth have town result cop investigations on them. They cannot both be scum unless they are both GF investigation immune.

[Korlash]

a) I have no evidence against it and some, even if it isn't full proof, evidence to suggest it. It would be rash for me to think otherwise.

b) It makes as much sense as me being paranoid and Corv being Naive. But as neither of us has any reason to believe any of these to even suggest it is just reaching on your part to justify your thoughts.

c) I worked at the asylum and so have spent my days amoung crazy people. This calls my sanity into question. And I think it would have been easy to just give me a list of every investigation I would get on any player at the start, but the mod telling me stuff right off the bat just makes the game boring.

Coug's explanation was the exact thing I thought he would say. I have said before when you make cases you make them one-sided. They are unclear and hard to follow. Your 1188 is no different.

Yes, Coug did lie. Obviously your case was not "clearified" and he did not "understand the case." But this only proves laziness, inability to read well, in the most non-insulting way I can manage: stupidity on his part. What it does not prove is that he is scum.

You want proof? Here it is. when Coug posted 1189, I didn't catch it. Neither did SG. We both had to read it a couple of times to see what had happened. we made the mistake, it's just as possible Coug did as well. And as your post had quotes th no names and the sentence: "Coug, can you at least expect to post my case on Farside before posting you dont like my case?" it is perfectly understandable that someone would assume that case was about farside.

Now... can we get back to Crazy and his lynching?

[Korlash]

Did you read 1296?

... I just have to say this... pop... you are annoying as hell. All the "did you read?", "have you read?" and the like is just freaking annoying man. What do you expect us to say: "No... I'm posting in a game I refuse to read! dur...."

serously... it really grinds my gears...

[Korlash]

Something I thought about after making it: For there to be two godfathers, there also has to be two scum groups. Mathematically possible at this point, but not supported by what's out there.

This also contradicts FP flavor... It mentiones one person gathering two friends to play the game. While it is true Mod flavor can never be absolute it does strongly suggest on scum group of three members.

Korlash doesn't have a guilty on Mirth and me, so that's obviously not why I'm questioning your scum grouping.

I have a guilty on Mirth...

And then some guy that you defended for being stupid for not reading well and lying, (why would town lie?) inmediately posts this:

Mystery mafia 2. I, a town masonizer, lied by saying I was vanilla. Town won.

That aside, in this case it is less a lie and more a mistake. Town makes mistakes all the time.

[Korlash]

Llama. I'm waiting for him to answer as to what result he actually recieved. I don't remember him ever saying he got one.

[Korlash]

Shoot me if I know, but your suggesting that both Mirth and I are scum together is already credibly bankrupt and a no-lynch, if we're still playing the day after, will blow it to bits if Korlash and I haven't done it already.

What the hell did I do? O.o

Wait, why arent we no lynching?

No lynching is still an option and not a bad one. However, i don't usually jump on no lynches until every other option is gone.

[Korlash]

First of all, I got innocent on llama and innocent on SC. I said that before (when I said I 'may' be naive as opposed to 50-50 or insane) because I got innocents in all my investigations.

So you were given a result on someone who died that same night... interesting...

[Korlash]

Yes... the mini needs attention! Ondalay, ondalay! Haiaku, haiaku!

[Korlash]

Korlash, voting no lynch when there is an odd amount of players before Lylo its not what we SHOULD be doing here, specially when there are 2 cops in the setup and your assumed doc?

what the hell is wrong with you... you can't phrase a question like that. I can't tell if you're accusing me of voting no lynch, asking me if its the right thing to do, or asking me if it ISN'T the right thing to do...

Now... In our situation, the first glance best play does appear to be no lynch. However, there's always risk to it. The cops investigations might not prove anything and we would be here tomorrow in the same situation with someone dead. Theres also the risk the doc is one of those 50/50 protect or kill doctors, so theoretically there could be two possible NKs tonight, meaning if they are both town we lose. And yes I recognise the good stuff we gain from no lynching too.

However, upon closer inspection I firmly believe Crazy is scum. I think there is enough evidence to support his lynch so I don't see why we should no lynch. That's just how I am, if i see someone I think is worthy of a lynch, why bother no lynching?

Now if the town as a whole decides to no lynch, I'll go along with it. I recognise I'm human enough to be wrong and so I can accept another night to help gather evidence. But as far as individual votes go, I don't want to no lynch.

[Korlash]

Kor: I investigated Llama and got innocent and he did get NK'ed the same night. I did say why I chose him previously but we can through it again if we need to.

Your reasons aren't all that important to me right now. The fact is you claim to have reieved a result on a dead player, this is something that usually doesn't happen.

Corvus, its lylo. Thats the only reason why no lynch is good here.

Wrong pop... "LYLO" specifically means if you no lynch, you will lose. If you're going to make statements like this, don't use incorrect terms.

Until now, its safe to assume that there is only 1 NK. There is not even a killing method in people that have already died.

It is never safe to assume anything like this. Especially in endgame...

Mirth admitted that she isnt a weak doc. Scum would be more organized, I know, but think about this in a game of probabilities. We are letting scum decide if they want to reduce our probabilities of losing.

Are you actually arguing giving scum power to decide something is a good thing?

If you have 1 bulletproof jacket or 100, it doesnt matter. Scum wont target you and Korlash tonight. We have more results. We can even be sure about Crazy 100%. But today we dont have that degree of certainty. If for some reason we lynch wrong today, we lose.

You can't be certain of who scum will and will not target...

[Korlash]

Korlash, you are 100% sure Crazy is scum?

Nope, and I'm pretty sure I made that clear...

If no, then we HAVE TO Vote No lynch.

we don't HAVE to do anything... calm your ass down...

If we can have a little more of probs of winning this game, then why arent we doing this?

Because I like the idea of lynching scum more and the fact YOU are pushing this makes me think it's a bad idea.

"Ondalay" should be "Ã

[Korlash]

Oh yeah, Korlash, that should totally be "hayaku". I've read the lyrics to Gackt's "Vanilla" to know that far too well. (Yeah, I sang it as karaoke at a con once)

grr... I can spell it in hiragana... screw English...

[Korlash]

Korlash, Im going to get out and breath some fresh air. I think I need it. In the meanwhile, do you think voting no lynch is not valid today?

sure it's valid, but I think voting crazy is more valid.

はやく and not はいあく, right?

Hayaku hanashite kudasai... that seems right... yeah no "i"...

[Korlash]

Kor: why doesn't it happen? i mean, having a result on a dead player?

*shrugs* That's just how most mods do it. Checking out Death Note mafia you'll notice the fact the mod gave the cop an investigation on a dead player (and on a gf) was a big reason town lost. In my opinion, giving an investigation result on a dead player gives a player extra information (regarding sanity) and mods shouldn't do that. (As in the person's role will be revealed "technically" at the same time the cop gets the info. Thiswould automatically tell the cop is he is sane/naive or paranoid/insane.) This game is a little different as sanities are a big issue already... Not to mention the roles, and of course that haiku ruleing... I guess I can accept Forbiddan is a little unorthadox...

Still... In more games then not a cop won't recieve a result on a dead player...

Corv, READ THIS, we have ideas, we have suspicions BUT we dont have certainty someone is 100% scum. If we lynch Crazy or whoever and for some reason and that person isnt scum, then WE LOSE.

And yet, up until now you have been pushing we lynch people with innocent cop investigations on them... you didn't seem to interested in the fact we might lose then...

If we no lynch, then we DONT LOSE and we COULD have more information than now, increasing our odds of winning this game. Ive already proven that there is no more than 1 NK and you are in the same line of thought about Mirth and her not being a killing doc. So, what could possibly go wrong?

You haven't proven jack. The mod herself disproves your evidence. The more you push this the more I'm liking the crazy lynch...

Even Korlash has admitted that he could be wrong about Crazy and that he could support a no lynch that isnt a bad option if we dont have ENOUGH degree of certainty someone is scum.

No I said I would support a no lynch if the rest of the town did. Just because we ight not get to a certain degree of certainty of something doesn't auto mean everyone will accept a no lynch. it really doesn't matter all that much sure, but I hate people putting words in my mouth is all. Just keeping things clear...

And I think you are reading too much into SG flavor. She is esentially confirmed miller since of both Corpo and SG, she was always the most prob real one for reasons in D1. I would like that you reread more about farside and StrangerCoug and tell me what do you think of them.

Really? I thought Corp was the more real one. Wasn't he the first to claim his flavor?

Thing is, if we NL we could potentially lose (somehow?) and tommorow we would have to lynch, and if we get it wrong it's over. I guess, NL is a better possibility then mislynching today and losing. :/

All things considered, I'd rather lose today then lose tomorrow. Why bother with an extra night if the outcome is the same. Before anyone decides on a no lynch they need to ask themselves "Do they feel someone is likely scum enough that they have very little doubt any night actions will clear them?" if the answer is yes then why no ynch? if it is no... well like pop says, we still have time before the day ends.

But there is something that doesnt fit. He says he steals items but farside and Coug have no items. Mirth, if we believe her as a power role, says that she even as a doctor doesnt have one. What item could Crazy steal of them? SG, do you have an item?

Most thiefs steal a metiphorical item. such as a badge from a cop, a stethescope from a doctor, weapon from scum, or something plain from regular townies. It usually doesn't effect the role he stole (as in he wouldn't steal a cops NK immunity) he would simply steal our "identity" for the time being. (Role theifs would that is, regular theifs would be told the item they stole) As his ability also claims to RB... well... Then I highly doubt even more so his ability steals any item from the player that said player actually knows about.

But all this is moot as I don't believe his role.

[Korlash]

I'll admit it was bad, however I'm sure you can see that it would make absolutely no sense to crumb miller when 3 people had already fully claimed miller. As either scum or town, why would I?

That's probably why you ended up not claiming it!

I wasn't breadcrumbing that I was "not a miller;" I was breadcrumbing that I was "similar to a miller." If I was a miller, I'd say something like:

"This is insane, because I'm also a miller."

The way that I was indirect shows that I was not trying to breadcrumb miller.

No... that's not a breadcrumb, that's a claim. You can't compare a breadcrumb to an actual claim... makes no sense.

Also, being indirect is the whole point of a breadcrumb. You're suppose to help show what you are without actually claiming. so just becuase you were indirect in something doesn't prove anything.

Also, you were not indirect. You clearly implied 4 millers, not 3 millers and something similar to a miller.

When 2 other people claim millers after him, yes, yes, yes.

Wait... so future events effect whether or not a person would do something? Are you telling me Pop knew two other people would claim? Becuase if he didn't, the fact two other people claimed had no effect on his choice to claim what he did when he did.

[quote="Why do you think that neither you nor Corvuus can be paranoid or naive, respectively? Other than the word "Insane" in the title? [/quote]

Becuase there is no evidence to support it. Have you ever heard the phrase "When you hear hoof beats, think horsies, not zebra!"? There is reason to support me being insane and Corv being sane not only in game flavor, but in role flavor as well. There is NO evidence of paranoia or naivity.

That's ridiculous. Tajo was just saying that "2 Godfathers" isn't the only way of justifying it.

Ok... and? Explain it? Paranoid/naive cops? no evidence. 50/50 cops, you'd be reaching. 2 GFs, rediculus. No matter how you try to justify it, its rediculus.

The thing is, townies have no incentive to lie. How SC imagined he read a case on farside doesn't make sense.

It's hard to believe Coug made a mistake? especially with the way Pop went about making the post in question?

Unless if Korlash is paranoid or insane... which are pretty much the only options for him.

Show me evidence I'm paranoid or stop reaching.

Dang, you're right! The scum can't kill both cops!!!!!! We really have nothing to lose.

So first you argue we might be useless cops, now you're saying it's worth a no lynch just for us? no wai! Pick a tune and stick with it.

I'd guess SC/farside/Mirth. And work around with possible GFs and/or cop sanities and there are multiple ways of justifying that.

So you would pick a trio and alter evidence to support it. So you're saying you're scum then? Right. Got it! Thanks!

I don't see why that's notable.

Wheren't you in essential liberties? I believe the cop in that game investigated Elvis night 2. Elvis died that night, cop recieved no result. There is a long standing precedent of cops not recieveing results on dead players, so when a cop claims he did it is always note worthy.

I really don't think that the chance of Mirth being a "50-50 doc" is enough to sway off of NL-ing. All the other possibilities are positive or neutral... so I support it.

Yet the fact either of me or Corv could be paranoid or naive is enough to justify grouping multiple townie results together. Missing out on lynching a scum power role is a negative. Losing a townie is always a negative. Getting two cop results tonight that you and Pop might just blow off as paranoid/naive, I see that as a negative.

Pff. If I'm town, Tajo's town. If Tajo's town, I could be anything.

You being town doesn't prove shit, except that I am incredibly wrong about something somewhere.

If they don't kill anyone, then we GET MORE COP INVESTIGATIONS!!!!!

*Gasp* NO WAI! I HAD NO IDEA! But you and pop think we're worthless cops so what do you care?

Night-talk is overrated. There's not much the scum can say to each other when everybody has already claimed. All the points of action are obvious.

Good, tell that to the mod. Maybe she will take your night talk away. I mean you don't need it anyways right?

When is "more cop investigations" ever a bad thing? As I see it, you and Corvuus are practically confirmed, so the scum is confined to kill one of you. What's the issue here?

It isn't. And no they aren't. The issue here is you are scum and need to die! What's not to get? Should I tpye slower? Use a bigger font?

If Tajo is scum, I am too. So really, there's no benefit to lynching Tajo instead of me. RIGHT?

Seeing as how you are likely a scum power role, yeah. No big reason to lynch Pop over you. However, as he has claimed miller and you haven't, if we wanted to make the most of tonight's investigations then we should lynch him so the investigation on you wouldn't be tainted. But that is moot if you are both scum anyways... so... yeah... I'd rather lynch you.

Dude, if Mirth was a Quack, then certainly you would have died by now. I can't believe these crap arguments for opposing No Lynch. If she's a 50-50 succeed doc, which is a crappy role, but not bastardly, then there's still no harm in going to night.

Uh huh... so you're as blind as Pop. I'm at least happy to see my top suspects fail to see something so obvious.

And again, missing out on lynching scum is and always will be a "harm" of no lynch. Don't care how you argue it, a no lynch is never harm free.

THE OTHER COP WOULD HAVE AN INVESTIGATION! And even if I am a scum RBer/thief/whatever, and I block one cop and a different scum kills the other one, we wouldn't be in a better situation but we wouldn't be in a substantially worse one either.

We lost a cop and one cop lost an investigation we wouldn't have lost if we had lynched. I would say we are in a very substantially worse situation.

-One cop dies; the other gets another investigation = BETTER POSITION

Nope. A cop dead means you and pop will never stop the "he might be insane/naive" for said person. And of course a dead cop is a dead cop... always a worse situation.

-Neither cop dies because Mirth is somehow town and protected the right person = BETTER POSITION

True. However, we lynch the scum theif/rb today and the above happens= even better position!

-One cop dies and I'm a scum RBer and I block the other one = VERY MINIMALLY WORSE POSITION.

We lose a cop and an investigation and we still end up lynching you... no, that is very worse position.

So yea... die scum die... I think that sums it all up...

[Korlash]

Ha ha ha... I love that look on his face when he thinks he's proved something! ha ha ha... priceless... ahhh... Do it again!

We lose if we lynch wrong today. We dont lose if we vote no lynch and wake up tomorrow. Tell me HOW CAN WE LOSE TODAY IF WE NO LYNCH?

*shrugs* I'm not trying to prove we can. But even if we have zero chance of losing doesn't make it the best thing to do. I could make an analogy here about how it's safe to stay at home all day doing nothing and how how that doesn't mean you shouldn't go out and take risks and stuff but I just don't feel like it.

You can prove all you want that no lynching is safe and the worst thing we do is lose a cop and whatever but I still think lynching Crazy is the better thing to do.

Thats one of the advatanges of no lynching, ironically. We could somehow prove what kind of cops you are.

Not if I get a guilty and pops gets an innocent. And especially not if one of us dies and the other is RBed...

[quote="Pop]Why the fuck do you generalize? I never said you were worthless cops. You could be, (how do you know?) but that, again is another advantage of having another night. We indeed have more informations. [/quote]

I've already said how I know. I've already shown evidence to support me being insane. Yet you still bring it up like it's an equal possibility. You're reaching to try and justify your "scum team." We don't need more information, we have plenty to justify lynching Crazy.

Korlash is fightling against a wall. He always HAS to be right even if he makes retarded comments like comparing his gambit with the lie SC made here.

This coming from the guy who ignores facts in order to justiy his way of thinking. Say whatever the fuck you want man. I'll never say I'm always right, becuase I don't have to.

That was before I noted we were 8 alive.

Uh huh... and all the LYLO talk going on at the same time didn't tip you off? Now correct me if I'm wrong, but if I were able to go find a post in which you were pushing a case on Mirth/farside/ or coug where you say something about LYLO wouldn't that then prove this right here is a lie? Hmm... Lets hope for your sake I can't find one huh...

Do you read what I post? FL didnt care about the method of death. Therefore its PRETTY safe to assume that we are only facing 1 NK for night.

No, I din't read what you post. usually as my eyes scroll down the text you threw onto the screen they are actually admiring the greyish and white background and wondering if it's more white or more blue. (Leaning towards blue right now) Sadly however every now and then a word or two slips by and I feel compelled to comment on it.

FL made a post a while ago where she said something along the lines of "For all we know the scum woke up to find someone dead and the person they targeted alive." does it mean we HAVE to have 2 Nkers? no. But it means the possibility is and always be open. Did you ever think maybe the doctor stopped a kill? Or that both NKers targete the same person? I can reach to justify my stuff to.

If Crazy is alive tomorrow and we are in the SAME situation than today then consider my vote to be first in his death wagon.

If you're willing to take the chance today, why wait? If crazy is town we will lose tomorrow anyways... so come on...

Oh, and FYI, this is another of the stupid dumb mistakes you shouldn't do as scum. To spend all of today ignoring and defending(or calling him ton at least) Crazy and then to say you would just up and vote him tomorrow if the same conditions we are in now still exist just proves you're full of shit. If you're not willing to vote him now, why tomorrow? You just said everything is the same. same situation, means your same cases on farside, mirth, and coug should all still exist. Why so willing to vote crazy? This is either apeasment, or BS. take your pick. And trust me, they both stink.

[Korlash]

BTW we can rule a few scum teams of 3 based on the facts that this day is still ongoing, despite the fact that a lynch has been possible for some time (not individuals, mind you, just certain combinations) I'll get to those when I take care of my bastard game.

Theres no need. The list is rather small and can be summed up in the phrase "One of Me, Coug, or Crazy has to be scum" meaning any three paty scum tam that does not include at least one of us is nixed. In addition, any scum team that includes me must also include Corv under the basis that I did not use my counterclaim as a way to get him lynched.

So you can make a list of impossible scum teams but i think it's more helpful and quicke to just say what I just did.

Prove there are 2 NKs and prove how the evidences in this game point to that happening. NAO. All points to just being 1 NK. Flavor, night actions and killing methods.

I don't need to prove anything becuase I am town. It is impossible for me to prove anything. The fact you seem to have a trifling NEED to prove something only helps further the fact you are scum. This close to winning you feel the NEED to be trusted and the NEED to be right. There are no listed killing methods meaning it CANT prove anything one way or the other. Flavor is flavor and never PROVES anything. And as far as Night actions go you have none, so you can't prove anything off of them anyways.

(pardon the caps lock, I'm suffering from lack of being able to do that and need to fill the urge )

How the hell can we lose a cop if you and Corv have NK resistance?

I've been saying this for the last 5 or so pages, if you don't know I'm not telling. I will not tell the scum how they can take out a cop tonight no sweat just becuase you're too dumb to figure it out yourself. Drop it. You want to be right, fine. we can't lose a cop. Happy now? If you ever bring the subject up again you are willing endangering the life of me and Corv and I will see you hang for it.

Im obv not reaching. You are. Compare your evidences (2 NKS, are there any?) to mine (1 NK)

Neither one of us has any evidence.

What happens if you or Corv find scum tomorrow or you investigate Crazy and he comes up as town?

And what happens if we lynch Crazy today and he is mafia RBer? What if his lynch not only prevents a cop death but the fact he is gone it means BOTH cops get an investigation? You can hypothesis about the glories and riches a no lynch might bring and I can do the same about what a lynch might bring. All we do is go in circles.

[Korlash]

This is not necessarily true.

How so?

[Korlash]

True. What I mant was any three person scum team including me must include Corv as well. If we have multiple scum teams then yes, me and corv could both be scum and not on the same team.

However my point still stands. If I am scum and Corv is not a part of my group why did I not try to get him mislynced?

In addition, if we have multiple scum teams then your last post of impossible scum pairs is false. If it's a team of two then not having made the lynch proves nothing. Scum can't win tonight if they only have two members, so no pair would out themselves by speed lynching.

So... I suppose what we've proved is nothing is proven?

Unless we are dealing with a group of three and an SK. In which case I would have to be the SK. Now I know this is impossible (even if you don't) so... Pardon me if I still think my orriginal statement still holds weight.

[Korlash]

How do we know the scum have a RB or did I miss something?

My guess is Crazy is either RB or GF. Being an RB expains why he wants to no lynch, it lets him be of use for one more night even if he has to die the next day. It maximises his ability. Of course if he is GF it's obvious why he wants to no lynch. He needs a cop to get a town read on him.

Both situations dictate that a no lynch is devistating to town.

Also, theorectical set-up speculation dictates if the scum have a "power role" it is likely a RB. Town has two cops and one doc so the RB is the obvious scum "power". This relys on the cop and doc claims being true. Also GF is an acceptable balance too. And, arguably, both can exist when you think a RB could actually help the cops by preventing a false reading on a miller. However that is a big stretch and I wouldn't put money on it. It is still possibly "theoretically" wise though.

I have evidence for only 1 NK. Its not categorical but its ok for practical assumptions. Do you have any evidence for 2 NKs?

The only thing I have close to evidence is what the mod said. The only thinkg close to what you have for evidence is the lack of a "killing method" which, techically, isn't evidence. If the mod had listed both kills as "Shot to death" then yes, that is evidence of one killing faction. However the lack of any mention of a killing force can be numerous things. The mod could not have done it on purpouse to help hide multiple night kills, the mod may just not think it's worth mentioning or is lazy, and yes it could be there is only one klling force and the mod saw no reason to include a killing method. However as all are possible it cannot be used as evidence to support any individual theories.

As such you have nothing, and I still have what the mod said. So technically I have more evidence then you do. But Technicallities are pretty worthless, so I might as well have nothing either.

How does this make sense?

It's called a profile.

We are talking about probs and you know you are reaching just because you dont like to admit YOU ARE WRONG.

Actually I love to admit I am wrong. When I admit it, no one is able to hold it over my head. However I do not like to be wrong and so unless I see reason to believe I am wrong, I won't admit it. As it stands you seem more interesting in calling me wrong, then actually proving me wrong.

I dont want to endanger your or Corv's life. Ill stop there since this game has become more in Korlash needs to be alive tomorrow to win this. Have some group solidarity. Even I doubt scum can kill any of the cops, in the WORST scenario we have one more piece of information than today.

Uh huh... I honestly can't tell if this is insulting or if you just post that way without thinking. But as I want the subject drop I'll not dig into it...

How the fuck can you be 100% sure about this? How the fuck does this bring us more possibilities of winning today than tomorrow?

right becuase I totally said I was 100% sure. When you want to argue with someone, try to stick to what they actually say. Making stuff up really hurts your side of the argument.

This is not a discusion of Crazy scum Crazy town. This is a discussion of MAXIMIZING the odds of winning this.

Actually no. This whole discussion has been a ploy on your part to play into town's fear of losing. You have built up the possibility that we can lose into a much bigger thing then it is. You are trying to convinse us we NEED more investigations and that game play discusson and theory says that the best play in our situation is to no lynch, when in reality it's not.

Yes, we can lose if we mislynch. But the same fear and possibility will be here tomorrow. We will lose if we mislynch then as well. Regardless of more cop investigations or not, that possibility will always exist. Heres the most likely situation for tomorrow. Both cops will almost for certain end up investigating crazy. The cops cannot tell each other who they will be investigating becuase the fear of a RB means that if they tell, the scum can use that knowledge to either protect themselves or frame another. And of course the RBer fear will also mean to insure a crazy investigation both cops HAVE to investigate him. So personal players aside, on average both cops will investigate crazy based mostly on instincts.

Now, whatever investigation the cops or cop get on Crazy tomorrow, he will still be an unknown. If we get a guilty investiation, we can argue the person he stole from is the scum. It lines up with his ability and gets us no where new. If we get an innocent the same applies. Anyone can argue the person he stole from was innocent and he is really scum. And of course as you have proven already, the GF fear will always make sure him being scum is possible.

So... Disregarding WCS and BCS, my personal and professional opinion is that on average" if we ran tonight 10 times at least 7 f those times will end up in a situation very close to today. Which means worse becuase the scum will have gained a night to do whatever and of course we may have lost a townie. maybe 1 will give us a better situation. (As in a guilty on farside. seriously, that is the only possible investigation that will put us in a better situation) but again the odds of a cop investigating farside over crazy tonight is very low.

And all of this is just a long boring way of me getting to my point. You argue that a no lynch in an even player mislynch and lose situation is the best option! And it is, SOMETIMES. Go back, find the people who first argued this and look at the games they used as explames. 9 out of 10 of those games will have a town with NO TOP SUSPECT, a town that has been full of LURKERS for nearly the entire game, or a town so messed up with something (Newbies, lying town, mixxed up roles, some sort of "red herring" event) that any lynch they make would be considered no more then "random". In that even a no lynch is best.

In our game we have a top suspect. Town is not plagued by lurkers, it is not confused, it is not even split on wagons. We are not in a situation of "That guy or that guy" we are in a situation of "that guy or no one" meaning we do not have a "side v. side" issue which is another event that could dictate a no lynch.

Our best choice is to lynch. Can we lose? YES. But we will always have that risk. Tomorrow, the next day, the day after that. We will never be free of not losing again until scum is dead. We have a suspect, we have plenty of reason to suspect him, and so the fear of losing is MINIMUL.

You and Crazy are pushing this fear of losing. this is a terrorist act man. How can you expect anyon to think you or him are town after all of this? After all the hype you have built up over this no lynch?

[Korlash]

Sorry for that WoW's there but I think it's something everyone needs to read...

Noooo. I meant that the "me SC or Crazy" think may be likely but does not exclude other possibilities. You if you are scum separately of Corv might have thought it best to not get him lynched cause youre not squeaky clean yourself. Corv as scum might have had insider info. We don't know any of this. So the statement you made is not necessarily true

It is in a group of three. When thinking about multiple scum groups, yes. It is not true. So... half and half...

Crazy is scum for having a claim that makes absolutely no sense. I don't know why nobody's explaining why he is/isn't likely scum at this point in terms of his actions.

becuase the discussion is not if he is scum or not, but whether town should even lynch or not. Pop and Crazy know it is easier for them to argue a no lynch then it will be to argue Town-Crazy.

[Korlash]

Acronyms wre never my strong suit, TDI?

[Korlash]

... He can... that's kinda one of the reasons lynching him is better then a no lynch...

[Korlash]

Not a mass prod! AHHHh RUN AWAY!

[Korlash]

So when's the deadline?

[Korlash]

Still pondering the power of no lynch. Korlash posted some time ago it wasnt a bad idea. I want to hear what changed his mind. Crazy posting in other games/threads while he was being heavily attacked here should also mean something.

I've already said what changed my mind and even layed out a big long case as to why lynching Crazy is a better idea then a no lynch.

Thoughts of getting a replacement?

What's the point? We want Crazy to explain his stuff. If he is replaced that can never happen.

a)We lynch Crazy.
1) Crazy is scum. We dont lose.
2) Crazy is town. We lose.

b) We go no lynch. We dont lose unless something really shitty happens at night.
1) We get more information. (most likely)
2) We get zero new information. (least likely) We go back to scenario a).

Explain to me what can go wrong in scenario b) and how it can be potentially different in a disastrous way for town than today.

i've already done this... If Crazy is a RB which is a very likely possibility when you add his fakeclaim with the known town power roles we lose a night of investigations that we would have otherwise gotten. No one for the crazy lynch has any doubt he is scum, so no one (except you) needs any more cop investigations to lynch him. Can we be wrong? Sure, but we can always be wrong. We have the same chance of losing today as we do tomorrow so why leave someone we think is scum alive?

The only possble difference tonight will bring is an innocent result on Crazy. And then that narrows our scum pool to you and farside, and trust me Pop no one in this game will lynch farside over you ATM, an innocent on crazy might change that but who knows. So there is absolutely no reason to no lynch. There is no benefit and no reason.

Now if people want to wait for Crazy to say something, fine. But don't replace him just to lynch him, that's not fair to the replacement and wastes too much time.

Hypothesis: One less player is more information for town.
Agree, disagree?

Not when it's a cop. One less cop is sufficently LESS info for town.

[Korlash]

Korlash, a question, do you at least understand my point or you simply disagree with it because you think its retarded?

I do understand it. I can fully understand why someone would want to no lynch in our situation. But I know it's the wrong the choice. Regardless of if we win or lose, lyncing Crazy is the best option in my mind right now, and I'll fight for it as long as it takes.

[Korlash]

Another point of interest is how, if Crazy is telling the truth, his lynch is a 'no-information' lynch in the sense that if everything works the way he says it does, then he can turn up town even if he is scum, or turn up scum, even if he is town. He is also 'compulsive' so he *has* to steal from someone so his lynch will never reveal his 'true role' but just of who he claims to target.

Do not overlook the fact we are ALL compulsive... you, me, mirth... why do none of our Pms say we HAVE to target someone yet his does?

Also who did he claim to have targeted last night?

[Korlash]

also, i think you meant a 'no' in there.

A no in where?

[Korlash]

Both Mirth and SC can't be scum...

How are you and Pop not getting that?

[Korlash]

Seriously, No Lynch is the option here... and I have yet to see a real reason for why we shouldn't. Scum-talk is just way overrated. If someone came in tomorrow with a drastic change of opinions, wouldn't that mean that they were scum? And all the claims are already out, all the opinions are bare and plain to see, so what could the scum even talk about?

... *sigh* I'm getting tired of going in circles. This is why this deadline extension is crap. Another 7 days of "No u!" "No u!" "No u"... ect...

There is no good reason to no lynch. The only difference it would make would be if a cop got an innocent on you. That is all. And that won't even save you. People will still lobby for your lynch. And who would it leave us with? Farside and Pop. And I hypothesis pop will be lynched way before Farside, so tell me exactly how you and pop, the main lobbiests for this no lynch that will either end in your lynch or his lynch tomorrow actually think it's "the only option"?

[Korlash]

Is anyone else wondering why town even has a RBer? The scum would need something, some sort of role. In a game with two cops and a doc town isn't given a RB, it's just too self-destructive.

And also this whole "reveals false role at death" thing... Who the hell is buying this? A death miller, a role theif, two cops of varying sanities, and 2 regular millers? And to top it off a "rusty" doc? no... It's not possible...

Also I too would like to know why Corv/Korlas would die...

[Korlash]

Because it seems you're the scapegoat for everyone.

Speaking of that... where has Pop gotten to...

[Korlash]

Korlash you disagree with deadline extension? Do you think we have discussed everything we should if you all are so sure Crazy is scum?

I disagree with the deadline extension becuase I doubt very much anything we do discuss will matter much short term. Granted long term all discussion is important.

The way I see it, I cannot think of anything Crazy could do or say to change my mind. From what others have been saying I think it's more or less the same for them. I also believe all discussion right now is more or less just circle talk, so I think the odds of us gaining anything useful for the long term is very low.

Personally... I think this deadline extension is just a ploy in hopes you can get more people to no lynch. Combine that with how useless I think it is and I see no reason not to be against it.

Also, what "should" we have discussed? If we are all so sure Crazy is scum, what do you think we need to discuss?

[Korlash]

Yeah, and logical reasoning has already narrowed down two partners. we can sit and hope for his partners to slip up and connect to him now, but what's the point? You've defended and been connected to him all game. If you want to argue who his scum partners can be you will ALWAYS be the first one. I don't need another week to figure that one out.

As far as his second partner, well arguing about that is just circular discussion which would only prove my point...

[Korlash]

So much for the "Im not tunnelvisioned on you, Tajo, only in Crazy" speech some times ago.

I'm not tunnelvisioning anyone Pop and trying to reach for a strawman on my case won't help you.

Because Farside is looking at me as an easy out and doesn't realize that if I'm scum its more likely than not that I am scum with Corv?

Actually I think it's more likely then not you're with me... or the GF... and if you are the GF you can be scum with just about anybody...

Even more, why me pushing no lynch is indicative of being scum?

Becuase you are doing it simply to save Crazy's life...

Scum could have a RB. 2 RBs is unlikely. We have 2 cops.

Which only further proves my point that the investigation we would get would be worthless.

So, please tell me how things can dramatically change against town when we have the small but possible chance of having more information tomorrow?

No. I've already told you thing won't change for the better. And if things won't change what's the point?

[Korlash]

Tell me how 2 people who have 1 shot nk ability and a doc make sense with 1 kill.

With the presence of "3" millers and two cops AND the added bonus's that the cops definitily have sanity issues somewhere in amoun them means the chances of mislynches is greatly increased. Becuase of this in order to presserve balance and actually give town a chance they must have greater chance to survive NKs. Also when you add in a scum RB it would make up for one of the town power roles.

And of course you can still argue "rusty doc" could mean a chance of killing which would actually increase the chance of Nks. But I'd rather just hypothesis the presence of a real doc until proven otherwise.

Check please.

You guys are all so closed minded...

This is not about Crazy. This is about maximizing our odds of winning.

No it isn't. our odds of winning won't go up at all.

[Korlash]

Kor, why am I most likely to be scum with you when you got guilties on me and Corv? (This is of course assuming you're not paranoid for a moment.)

Becuase I'm the one who says his investigation makes you town. If you are scum, there is the possibility I'm lying in order to confirm you.

[Korlash]

Well if you're scum, Corv would pretty much have to be scum.

Why is that?

Anyway, would anyone have any objections to me voting now or would y'all like me to hold off til deadline?

I've already had to wait for one deadline... I don't see the point of another one...

[Korlash]

Cause your roles are too similar to be faked, as far as I'm concerned, and the two of you confirm each other.

I've confirmed him, no one has yet to confirm me... Between me and Corv, I'm the more likely scum. And the two of us can't both be scum because we have Millers... Can't have millers without cops...

Tell elvis_knits that if you ever read WOMAFIA...

[Korlash]

And have you ever heard of Occam's Razor? Or do you just automatically think of Zebra's when you hear hoofbeats?

1(2) game(s) Vs. 1000... Sorry man, I think I win this one.

[Korlash]

Yeah, and that situation is when the mod is a bastard. Meaning the situation is non-existant. No townie can ever afford to assume the mod is a bastard, or the set-up is intentionally faulty.

I would rather lose one game out of 50 due to bastard-mod syndrom, then lose 25 games based on over-paraonid-stupid-town syndrom. No offense intended of course.

[Korlash]

I just know that if I'm lynched, the town will lose. And yes, an innocent result on me might at least make people step back a little from my lynch... How can any extra cop investigation really be BAD?

It shouldn't be bad, it just wont be good enough to justify letting a likely scum power role live through the night.

I don't think you can Mod-WIFOM in the insane asylum.

I can mod wifom anything when the alternative is bastard mod setup.

Didn't you investigate them both? Why couldn't you be paranoid? Or why couldn't you be insane and one of them be the GF?

For someone this close to death you sure aren't paying alot of attention to the game. I investigated one, corv investigated the other. I can't be paranoid because there is no evidence to support it. Until there is, I'm insane. The god father possibility doesn't exist in any lylo territory either. However, come tomorrow or the next day after a few scum drop dead we can reopen the GF possibility.

Scum is Mirth/farside/SC. Don't you think?

The detailedness of this list is so blinding it's maddeningly unhelpful to the point of severe chronic pain.

[Korlash]

Please, if I RB you (or whichever cop has NK immunity), and that cop dies, then you have proof that I'm scum. Seriously, guys.

Meaning we wasted the night and the cop investigation we would have had if we had just lynched you today. You're just proving my point now.

Wait, today it's impossible for there to be a GF yet tomorrow there could be?

No I'm saying we can't second guess cop investigations today while in a mislynch or lose situation. We need to lower the scum pool as much as possible, if we factor in GF's our scum pool is too high. I would rather call one scum town today, then unconfirm three town and throw their names back on the lynch options.

And just because there's no evidence that you're paranoid doesn't mean that you're INSANE! That's the Burden of Proof fallacy.

No, there is evidence I'm insane. The bruden of proof has already confirmed me to be insane. To question it requires you to provide evidence to support paranoia. You have none, I'm insane. As soon as evidence to disprove insanity or to help prove paranoia comes to light, then you can argue I'm paranoid. Until then you're just reaching.

[Korlash]

I have a hammer. I wouldn't call it "the" hamer though... I mean it's a good hammer but it's definitly not "the" material...

I'd vote Crazy again if I thought I could get away with it though...

[Korlash]

@Kor: When has there been definitive proof you're insane? As I recall neither of the people you've investigated have died yet.

Depends on your version of proof. Theres evidence of insanity, and none of anyting else. So is that proof or coincidence? I mean my Role Pm only implies insanity, it's called insane aslyum mafia not paranoid delusions mafia, and of course the fact the people I have investigated have claimed cop and doc does suggest they are town. There is no definite, 100% proof I'm insane, but there is no, none, zero, nada, zilch, shut the fuck up agout it cazy and pop, evidence that I'm paranoid.

If and when mirth or corv flip scum or if and when another investigation I may get flips contrary to my ivestigation, then we can discount circumstancial evidence and argue paranoia.

But anyway, I'd like Crazy to say his last thoughts, etc.

He just posted 5 posts ago... How much do you think his thoguhts have changed in that time frame?

[Korlash]

No becuase I have a good idea what that is and we can't do both at once.

[Korlash]

Exactly. One of us should check our sanities while the other complets the investigative sets. And as it's pretty obvious which should do which and who should be targeted I doubt we really need to discuss it.

[Korlash]

Nothing more I can say. I was under the impression that the cops had limited NK-immunity (two fully immune cops is absurd, and Korlash thinks MY role is bastardly), but if they have full NK-immunity, then that furthers the point that we should NL.

I think your role is a lie, bastardly would be an improvement. And two fully NK immune cops would "further" the point we should no lynch, but it still wouldnt be enough. that would be like "furthering" from -5 to -3. Still a bad idea, still not going to happen.

Bleh, scum won. Good game; definitely the coolest closed setup I've ever been in.

Uh huh, all you need now are some fake tears and a big sad puppy dog face and you might actually ave some people feeling sorry for you.

[Korlash]

Well... Corv what's the word on your investigation. Or would you rather I go first? I will say I investigated exactly who I "should" have and got the result I figured I would get.

[Korlash]

Here I would have thought you'd be arguing Crazy investigated Farside...

[Korlash]

Well you were in total support of Crazy. I figure him flipping town would have lead you to believe everything he said. And he said Farside is vanilla town. So... I kinda pictured you would be running in crossing Farside off your list...

[Korlash]

When did Crazy say farside was vanilla town?
And Crazy was indeed a thief (vanilla townie is prob the role he targetted the night before) but for some reason we are still playing this game, assuming the most possible 3 scum scenario. That means that Crazy was indeed scum, or am I missing something important?

Well two things for you.

1) If Crazy was indeed a theif, he claimed to have targeted Farside. So unless you are going to argue you believe Crazy was a scum theif who targeted SC and claimed to target his partner Farside, you're pretty much stuck with him targeting Farside. And as he flipped vanilla town, well... you should be able to connect the dots.

2) Forbiddan usually doesn't end the game in a 3 v 3 situation unless "nothing" can stop town from winning. So... I don't know... If Crazy is town and everyone else who is dead is also town... then... I guess it's a mod thing that the game is still going on.

I will say this, if there is some sort of death-scum-miller that flips town upon death... I'm going to be pissed off.

[Korlash]

And just how do you know this? Where else do you know me from? It's obvious that you've played a game that I've run before, or at least seen one

I always do background checks on the Mods I like!

Wait, Korlash, so you are saying now that Crazy was town?

No. I've been saying YOU were saying it ALL of yesterday. So to not say it now would just be a huge change of heart from you. And seeing as how he flipped "town" that change of heart would be irrational, unexplained, and... weird... I mean I can get a guy calling someone town and suddenly saying he s scum when the guy flips "scum"... that is understandable...

[Korlash]

Wait a minute Korlash. You are trying to make me look more terrible than I currently am. I admit I assumed Crazy was town for reasons stated in the post where I talked about him. Then I reevaluated things and talked about the possibility of him being scum. Thats my clear stance at end of day.

What is with all you people using the word "terrible"? Is it some new fancy mafia scum term meaning something I should know about?

That aside, No matter what your "stance" at the end of the day was, you spent every waking hour from the time I replaced in to pretty much the time Crazy was lynched proclaiming his towniness. saying the possibility he "might" be scum doesn't change that. I'm not "making you out to be terrible", I'm stating an observation.

I mean, look at it from my perspective, I talked about the possibilities of Crazy being town, yet you still made your 1610 post. So... Are you trying to make me look terrible too?

Its not like I was shouting Crazy is town seconds behore his lynch and now Im saying OMG He is scum!!

Like OMG! You're not shouting in caps and things didn't boil down to the last second! That makes everything better! wait no it doesn't!...

If you reread my posts I pushed for no lynch, yes but I firmly said that it wasnt a discussion about Crazy being town or being scum. It was about getting more probs of winning as I clearly explained in my posts.

And? Your point is? Who said anything about you pushing for a no lynch? That isn't even remotely relevant to the discussion at hand...

So tell me why are we still playing this game? The rational thing is to think that if there is 3 scum as we all assumed yesterday, scum would have already won. Scum hasnt. Therefore we lynched scum.

Dude pop, I'm going to start charging you a psycic tax everytime I answer a question you ask in an earlier post. Go read my 1609 and sit in the corner...

And about the Crazy-farside thing, if he is scum as I think, why should we believe in everyhting he said?

Maybe the whole "if" thing. You need to stop pushing theories with no evidence. All signs point to me being Insane, you push I'm paranoid. All signs point to Crazy being town, so you push he's scum... You would make an excellent doctor! If by doctor I meant guy who kills people for a living...

Also please share your result. Not taht Corv' result is going to change anything, is it?

It shouldn't. But I like to cover all my bases. In the seriously unlikely scenario Corv is scum who happened to miraculusly fakeclaim NK immune cop in a game with a NK immune cop, I'd like to hear his target and result first. However, as he was the first of us to claim I'm sure he too may have similar feelings and I'd like to know who he would like to share first.

[Korlash]

Maybe you shouldnt. Let everyone check in before. But I definitely want you to claim it first than Corv. Just in case.

Luckily I value your "wants" and "needs" under everyone else in this game, otherwise I just might do it!

Maybe that was too much... Ehh... Naw I'll let it go. That makes up for all the past due Psychic Tax you owe me.

[Korlash]

Korlash are you fucking telling me that you think Crazy is town? Im prob going to hire a doctor for both of us.

No, I am not telling you that. In fact, I never made a comment on it either way. Personally... I have to assume town simply because the idea of a scum with the ability to flip town hurts my brain.

If FL is letting us play with 3 scum alive then how does this make sense?

Ask her. Tecnically the town can still lynch scum if a partner busses. And the scum can't lynch unless a town votes a town. Then, to be fair, the mod must always allow for the possibilities of doc protection, NK immune roles, vigs, sks, jailkeepers, ect...

But like I said, you would have to ask her.

Or do you think there are not 3 scum?

I do think there are, or at least were, 3 scum. Whether they are all still alive is the mystery. It's like the paranoid sanity question, there is no proof a scum is dead while there does seem to be evidence a scum ISN'T dead.

Pft. Korlash or Corv I would like to know what you did and what you found out.

So would I. Just waiting on Corv.

[Korlash]

For the record, I protected Kor last night.

Why? Why did you protect a person with NK immunity? Why didn't you protect... i don't know, the miller? The person most likely to be killed?

Heh, you'll have to PM me the results of that check sometime

I think if I put it all into one PM the internetz would crash...

[Korlash]

That doesnt make any sense. Protecting a NK immune cop is not being "better safe then sorry" that's wasting a protection... Your protection should have been between Farside (Has the possible Crazy investigation on her side), SC (Corv's investigation), and SG (Confirmed in part by Corp).

Barring any Crazy-Scum flipping town mishap, scum entered the night 3 v 4. They NEEDED a kill. They would not go after a NK immune cop. In fact, why they didn't kill YOU is the biggest mystery there is. They risked doc protection killing SG, why didn't they just kill the doc?

[Korlash]

I wouldn't bother with that. Maybe read yesterday and look up anything major...

Seems kinda worthless to read the entire game though... Just saying...

[Korlash]

Alright then awesome. At least the two of us are in sync.

I targeted Pop because I felt it was more inportant to confirm one of our sanities (me and corv) and as I had two investigations, and he only had one I felt my sanity was more important. I got an innocet or "Townie" result on Pop, which says nothing about him as he claimed miller but it confirms I'm not paranoid. It also confirms "at least one" of Corv or Mirth is town.

Either way you look at it if both cops are to believed "at least one" of SC and Mirth must "also" be town.

So this leaves pop and farside with a "minimum" of one scum amoung them... And a guilty on Farside pretty much sums it all up. But in order for that to be true Crazy would either have had to lie (And thus be scum, because no townie should ever lie about that) or is scum that flips town and hoped to clear farside in the process. If Farside is scum, sadly that means I can believe Pop's role as it mirror's Crazy's. It also means the last scum should be between Mirth and SC which if that is the case we will be able to sort the most likely between them tomorrow. (Plus with 2 scum dead and 2 cops, 1 vanilla, and 1 miller left) we technically should have 2 lynches and so whichever it is we should be able to take them out before we lose. Of course this all rests on both cops telling the truth and assuming Pop's role is town. Which neither is any where near "proven" to be true.

Man... this game is insane... So the way I see it if Crazy is town we lost already, so the only way town can win is if he was scum. So I have to assume he was scum. And as Corv claimed my role pretty damn close (too close to assume fakeclaim) I have to believe him. However... why did he not vote farside? That's kinda been the age old cop fakeclaim tell...

[Korlash]

Actually, I'd say the scum needed a dead cop or a no-kill more than just any kill. Killing at this point eliminates a lynch candidate from the pool, and this is dangerous because of cop investigations and such. Because basically you and Corv are more or less above the lynch. The rest of us aren't. Unless the two of you are scum together any random kill wouldn't do it. Besides, I did not think SG was confirmed, and I wasn't sure what to make of Farside and am even less sure now with Corv's investigation. And you're right, I should have been killed. Though killing me would have been smarter right after I claimed. But I do think being safer with keeping the cops alive is the best move.

If you are seriously a doc who flipped a coin you should know if it had landed on Corv I wouldn't have sucha problem with it. He is the only one out of the two of us the scum could possibly have killed. So not only did you protect a NK immune cop, you protected the one cop with almost zero chnce of being killed. We could argue why the scum killed SG all we want. Maybe Pop is scum and killed her to prove she was town which he may think strengthens his claim. Maybe Farside is scum and killed because she didn't worry about the cops. Maybe she thinks Crazy's investigation clears her. Personally, the way I see it is the scum have 2 or 3 people left. They can still win with both cops alive. Perhaps they left you alive and killed SG in the hopes we mislynch you and they mop up the victory easy.

On the topic of Farside, this is very odd. I'm not sure what to make of this. How does Crazy factor into this if Farside gave up a guilty?

Thats what makes this game so insane... *waves arms*

[Korlash]

I'm perfectly willing to believe Farside/Tajo are the scum pair, that the game is virtually 'over' and all we need to do is lynch Farside first, I investigate Mirth and based on that result, choose between Mirth and Tajo as the final one (based on extreme longshot of Tajo actually being death miller but then that brings up a slew of more questions and problems).

Either way, I believe Kor's cop claim and... assuming both of us still have NK resistance since someone has died 'every' night then the game seems practically over.

So... part of me wants to be hasty, vote and get it over with; part of me wants to see how scum respond, etc. just in case.

The only thing you are overlooking is a GF. In a game that seems to be all about wrong investigations and messing with the cops it's kind of dumb not to expect it. I also must admit I am also worried about a framer. My (RL) paranoid side makes me wonder if that isn't why Pop came out last night "hoping" one of us investigated Farside. However, just like my comments on the GF yesterday, I can't really let this theory run my mindset as we are still in a technical LYLO.

I guess I can understand wanting to hear what Farside has to say before voting.

[Korlash]

In addition, only scum know what their power roles are. Crazy's power role (scum-aligned thief) seemed to be the counter to the cops and with his death, scum may not be able to deal with NK resistant cops. If they could have, scum would have killed the cops by any means necessary or heck even RB us to prevent us from gaining information. I wasn't RB'ed and neither was Kor so apparently the scum are either 'normal' or have other tricks.

That's been my biggest concern... Crazy claimed RBer... if he was scum he would have HAD to either be able to RB or have someone on his side with that ability. Who did he target night 1? I know I asked this before but I'm dumb and can't remember anything past what I ate for breakfast yesterday...

Other "tricks" include a framer, a janitor, a GF and any custom makings of them. They could possibly have a role that lets them hide the role and alignment of someone who dies or an anti-framer that makes scum come up town to cops. Any sort of GF investigation immuneity is also possible.

I was worried about various speculation and other decisions to consider and make, but getting a guilty on Farside means I don't need to worry about whether SC is a godfather or various other circumstances yet. Farside claimed townie, I got a guilty, I think I am sane, so Farside needs to discuss implications and such and Tajo as well for his statement.

Yeah I agree. None of the possible tricks scum might have are important until tomorrow. I trust you, and I can believe you're sane, so a guilty on a claimed vanilla... well that's pretty cut and dry...

As for the Nightkill, I don't understand the exact 'scum' line of reasoning since it would be better to target a cop and waste a NK resistance than to actually kill someone (or kill someone investigated and verified like Mirth or SC). I was leaning towards SG being miller and Farside in with Crazy and Tajo and SG dying actually does puzzle me.

Actually, SG's death is perplexing to the point that... well... the only possible scenarios I could think of aren't really helpful.

I still like the theory Pop killed SG in an effort to make his claim look real. I mean he already did that "I told you guys Corp and SG were telling the truth" bit... And I think if either Mirth or SC is scum, they had to leave the other alive in case it came down to possible GF's later, or left them both (as town) alive in order to push the GF theory and maybe try to mislynch one of them today. (Also incriminates Pop) Plus leaving Mirth alive just adds the wifom of why didn't they kill the doc? (If she is town) SC could have been left alive if Farside is scum in order to limit the number of dead vanillas and help keep her claim viable.

Theres a lot of theries out there, doesn't do much good worrying about them just yet...

[Korlash]

Dude... enter key... Paragraphs... makes reading so much easier...

Now your role isn't a "perfect" mirror of Crazy... but it's pretty close.

As for who the other scum is, it doesn't matter. Not today. Today is all about Farside. Don't give yourself a hernia trying to disect who is the other scum.

but doesnt this make scum overpowered?

How is scum NOT overpowered? 2 millers, a death miller, a scum that flips town, a "rusty" doctor, and 4 vanilla towns? All we have are 2 Nk immune cops and with all the Cop fucking roles out there we aren't "that" useful. This game

heavily

favored scum and I'm glad to finally see a set-up that shows why relying on powerroles to solve everything is a bad idea.

The only thing that is weird is why Crazyscum would say he targeted her when he probably hitted another vanilla. Maybe his plan was to get lynched that day? This is the only thing that makes me wonder a little little possibility of farside being town.

I don't think he is a thief. I think he is the death miller form of scum. He was most likely told he flips vanilla town so he probably had to lie about who he investigated. If he picked a town that town could turn out to be a cop or doc or something, but if he picks his partner then 1- his partner will back him up, and 2- the partner should get some "Clearance" when he flips.

I still need to go back and find out who he targeted N1. If it was Llama then it adds up but if it was someone alive then it might not.

[Korlash]

actually I just use the term "rusty" becuase thats what you said your flavor says. I'll let the rest of you ruminate on allt he possible meanings of the word...

[Korlash]

Farsides been having some trouble in some of her other games lately so I'm not too surprised shes not here. Hopeing it's nothing major...

[Korlash]

My views on a no lynch are the exact same as yesterday. Although, I know I'm telling the truth so I don't feel the need to confirm myself.

we are still in the same mislynch and lose situation looking at another person with just about the same chance of being scum that Crazy had yesterday. There are two big differnces in no lynching today from yesterday though. For one, no more fear of a RB. That would be in favor. For two, the cop investigations would only serve to help confirm the other cop's investigation, unlike yesterday where the cop investigation would have been used to get a completly new investigation on an uninvestigated person. To me, an investigation served only to confirm Corv is worthless, where-as the thought of gaining an investigation on Crazy actually made me think for a while.

As far as my investigation on Mirth goes, if me and her are scum partners she would have to be the GF and Corv's investigation of her wouldn't be all that useful anyways. You can think what you want but I'm not stupid enough to allow a cop to be able to out me and my own partner with one investigation. There are aspects of this game I suck at, but fakeclaiming is not one of them. At least not anymore...

As far as this snag goes... I'm drawing a blank. Apart from hypothetical powers, and one situation in which it requires one of me or Corv to be the scum, I can't think of anysnags scum could pull tonight that would mess up a no lynch or a sucessful lynch.

[Korlash]

No I mean no lynchng simply so the cops can confirm the other cop's investigation is worthless. Yes it would be nice to have but it's not worth no lynching over.

[Korlash]

Come to think of it me and you aren't "totally" mirrored there Corv. Our Flavor does seem to be have similar elements, and we do have the "same" powers, but you do have the PR type deal on your side which I didn't. Plus to get literal our roles are the same, where-as Pop's and Crazys are opposites. So theirs is "mirrored" ours are just similar.

But yeah that could explain no mirror with the doc. With two of the same role they have to be given similar elements or else it will screw the town over come claim time. Take the two millers, they aren't "mirrors" of each other, simply the "same" role. And mine and Corv's roles are the "same" minus the difference in sanities. And of course if you wanted to argue why a doc doesn't have a "mirror" you would have to explain where the GF's mirror is, which I suppose you could argue were the millers, no? Huh, that actuall works... damn I'm good.

What else... what else... right... wait... no, right. I have yet to see anything that convinses me lynching Farside isn't the best thing to do. The whole "Crazy gave me his role" goes back to pretty much the reason I suspected Crazy yesterday, and as I was against not lynching him, I'm pretty much feel the same about Farside.

@ Corv: What was the downside to breaking that PR again?

[Korlash]

Why aren't you answering why you are voting Mirth?

[Korlash]

Hello?


ECHO....eCHO... cHO.... hO....o....

*sniff* all alone in an Insane Asylum... I know I'll read a book! Hmmm... "One Flew over-" NOOOOOOOOOOOO!

[Korlash]

So I'm like this close to just voting Farside and crossing my fingers...

[Korlash]

I would never hold up a middle finger in any place you could actually see it...

But I can't consider a lack of vote on Mirth faulty, you have a guilty on you. Regardless of what he thinks of Mirth or you if he Unvotes you to vote her he would be creating a lot of questions towards himself.

The only thing I find faulty is the lack of people.

[Korlash]

I believe Pop is scum too. I also have doubts about Corv and Mirth. But sadly those doubts aren't enough to make me disbelieve Corv and so his guilty verdict is the best lead I have.

I do feel a lot better voting you becuase you keep calling Crazy a "scum theif" and then try to push he stole your role and gave you his. A theif doesn't do that, a switcher does... I just think if you were town you would be calling Crazy something that makes what happened to you make sense and not calling Crazy what he claimed to be. It just gives me the impression you are trying to make your claim match his, and if you honestly think he was scum why would you be trying to match up to a claim that has a better then average chance of being a lie?

And if you think that is a crappy reason, well... guitly verdict... all I need to say...

[Korlash]

Oh pshhh I modded a game on another site recently with lots of kick ass ideas... A SK that has the ability to hide if he chooses. Randomly giving the ability to doc protect (including self protection) to a townie every night. Makes an unkillable doctor that made the cop unkillable as well. 2 pairs of scum/town masons... A neutral surviver with the RB ability... I could go on for a while. Needless to say they aren't looking forward to another game I created over there... <.< *sigh*

[Korlash]

But Korlash is insane, so he got the opposite result of what a sane cop would get on a Godfather. Hence the guilty result. Or am I horribly confused on that?

That's a bit of a mod related question. I know some mods that think GF's should ALWAYS give innocent, even when investigated by insane. And I know some mods that think millers should ALWAYS give guilty even when investigated by insane. I think the argument could go either way. Personally I always took GF immunity and miller to mean "opposite" from the other scum/town.

[Korlash]

what's the votecount at anyways?

[Korlash]

Well I started to read up from where I missed but I need to do something...

C:\Internet Files\Korlash> interaction/'slap'/Corv.3.exe

>*Slaps Corv*
>*Slaps Corv*
>*Slaps Corv*

C:\Internet Files\Korlash> systemshutdown

...

*boop*

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Ok that was fun seeing as how I know nothing about computers. Lets see the first one is for you saying you wanted to wait for me. Korlash is a very unreliable fictitional username and you should never follow behind him. The second is for not doing what you said you would... tsk tsk... and the third is for voting aginst your own guilty result...

we are still in mislynch and lose territory, so we need a dead scum today. If we lynch scum today, we *should* be able to afford a mislynch tomorrow. Meaning if we have any evidence that one player is scum, they die today. You do not overlook a guilty that is trustworthy in order to lynch on a hunch.

Scum 'could' have inside information. Heck, Tajo himself claimed (at various points) that his PM directly mentions the presence of cops and that is why he believed Cor/Kor claims (although it isn't quite as simple as that) and he claimed that FL PM'ed him about something given to town to balance his 'wretched' role (which I have no reason to believe either way).

A bit ago I was scum in a game where a scum role was designed to "Overlook RB and Doc protection" which implies to us that there are both a town RB and a town Doc. Ends up, there was no doc. Just becuase a role implies something, doesn't mean it's really there.

I don't see SC (KK now) as being a godfather (based on Kor's investigation) and such based on SC and interaction. I also could check to see who Crazy went after in his 'scum' groupings.

What investigation? I never investigated SC...

[Korlash]

Who do you suspect as being scum in addition to Farside?

If it is Tajo, then what is the problem?

The problem is we could be wrong. Who gives a damn who scum is "besides farside" today? Deal with it tomorrow.

Farside scum dies today, hypothetically lets say townie KK is NKed. We lynch hypothetical town pop tomorrow and we enter the night with 2 NK immue cops and the last scum meaning our chances of being able to correct that mislynch mistake are still alive.

Lets say we lynch hypothetical town Pop today. Hypothetical townie KK dies tonight and we enter tomorrow with 2 cops, two scum. That's game over.

That is your problem. You do not let caught scum live in order to take a gamble on someone you

think

is scum.

We could end the day (done so quite a while ago as well) and then what would happen or we talk about tomorrow? I would basically go on the 'same' exact speel I am doing today as I would tomorrow, i.e. I think Tajo is scum and we would be right here as we are now.

We would be in this situation with the numbers in our favor. Pop, mirth, KK, all still possible scum. We can take the chance tomorrow.

Even if it IS right, why end the day so early? Especially when i said before, that I was hoping (i doubt it now) to try to find scumbuddying, etc. etc.

Who said anything about ending the day early?

So if you think someone OTHER than Tajo is scum, then bring up your points and discuss. if you think it is Farside-Tajo, then we would be doing this tomorrow 'anyways' so whats the difference?

I'll bring up my points tomorrow when it matters. You have no "evidence" Pop is scum... While you do have some Farside is. What the fuck are you thinking? Seriously?

[Korlash]

Had a power outage recently and my connections been a little off. Having a bit of trouble getting online. Just a heads up. Hope I can get it up and running again here soon...

[Korlash]

Way to make me look like the bad guy when in reality you're the one disregarding your own guilty...

Whatever, if it makes you feel better thinking you made some big compromise by stepping down or that the rest of us are in some day ending conspiracy be my guest.

KK makes a good point:

Extending the day has only served to fuel some pretty meandering and sometimes outrageous WIFOM thinking on your part. It's important to analyze all the evidence in mafia, but at some point you just have to go with the most logical course of action that relies least on uncorroborated evidence.

...there are times when more discussion will only serve to confuse us. There is no discussion as to who farside's partner is that can happen today that can't also happen tomorrow. In fact, there really is no point in discussing the fact until Farside is confirmed scum anyway. So drowning away about not ending the day to talk about "other scum" is just wasteful posting on your part.

No one has ever said to end the day quickly, it's just I feel some of us probably feel the way I do and think today's actions are nearly set in stone so there is little point in discussing anything else.

[Korlash]

I targeted KK, got me a guilty.

[Korlash]

Yeah I have an idea, got a bullethole stuck in my jacket this mornin'...

We have two tries at this thing and I think i've got some sort of plan but I'd prefere we check the facts first and foremost. I seemed to have misplaced my notes... and by misplace I mean never took any, so... anyone remember any of Farsides connections...

[Korlash]

Well we should give Corv more credit then that. In the event he enters tomorrow with a dead Pop and dead Korlash his vote should be the most obvious thing in the existance of gameing, be it the right or wrong answer.

However that aside, I too believe Mirth is the best candidate between the three of you. However, if we do lynch Mirth today the gme has become set. Regardless of her role the game will enevitably play out in a certain fashion leaving the end result to be a set thing. If we were to say lynch you however there are many different routes that could happen. One of which almost automatically ensures a scum win.

As far as the idea that KK took a risk leaving Mirth Doc alive, if she really is the doc you'll notice she has wasted every single protection she has ever made. She has even told us she resorts to "coin flipping"... sadly no scum would be in any real "fear" of her and combine that with the suspicion levels on her and it's a no brainer.

I need to look up KK real fast... more to come...

[Korlash]

@ Pop: Don't worry man... if you are quick lnched, whoever hammers is dead tomorrow. Because of this no town will quck hammer and any scum that does loses the game. The only way a quick lynch will lose us the game is if there are 2 left, and there is no way there can be 2 scum left unless you are one of them. So all is well and good.

Now I do notice KK only joined the game yesterday. Now Farside's 1816 has been ruminating in my head since I first read it... I give her a lot of credit, and that sentence alone is enough reason to...

please try and kill

1:the cop

like

2:a suggested

either that or

3:go for the doc

.

4:These people have no clue.

Good luck

5:partner.

1: "the cop"... not "one of the cops" not "a cop" "THE cop"... -> Implies Corv (as I was shot)
2: "like a(I?) suggested"... Implies they talked, how could KK have talked with her if he only joined that day? -> Implies someone other then KK
3: "Go for the doc"... I personally felt this was the 'wifom' trying to clear Mirth as it seemed the most obvious. -> implies Mirth
4: "These people have no clue"... Implies we aren't even considering the remaining scum as candidates... -> Implies Corv and Myself
5: "Good luck partner"... Not "partner's" so it does indeed imply one scum left...

I wasn't expecting to actually use this in any real way other then to suggest it could be wifom to protect mirth... but now that I got my second look after checking when KK replaced in... It seems like either a huge slip of the tongue or a very very good se-up...

You know if Corv does happen to be the last scum and he managed to fakeclaim that without any knowledge of my role... I almost feel like he deserves to win...

Anyways using Farside's last message I think it indicates Mirth over KK. (ignoring Corv that is)

[Korlash]

I dont know if I should share this or if scum have thought of this but we can win this game even with my lynch today.

Yeah we can, but once you share it it no longer applies and our chances of winning are halfed if not completely destroyed.

... Providing we are thinking of the same thing that is...

Im talking about yesterdays night, Mirth. He is taking too much risks and can be confirmed scum in a likely tomorrow scenario.

If he had killed Mirthdoc yesterday he would have damned himself. He would be looking at 2 NK immune townies making it impossible for him to win. We would just lynch you, he wouldn't be able to kill me or Corv, and then he would have lost tomorrow. There was no risk in leaving mirthdoc alive yesterday, only in killing her.

[Korlash]

I know it's not addressed to me but I have no idea what you are talking about there Pop...

[Korlash]

If anyone really thinks I am scum, then come out and say it.

Alright, I'll say it. I do think you're scum. However, you won't be lynched regardless of what I say and, to be honest, I'd rather not lynch you. But if you want to hear the evidence against you ok...

Yesterday you had a guilty on a proven scum and actually wanted to lynch someone else. It looks to me like you were covering your ass by bussing your partner but tried in vain to do everything to lynch elsewhere. Unable to prove, and so unable to build a case off it.

Farside's slip of the tongue by saying the cop and not a cop. As it was said by farside it's inadmissible in court and thus no case can be made.

You claimed my role pretty much spot on, yet you differ in one of the most crucial aspects. That is your NK resistance being "different" then mine. However this is both simply me being paranoid and is complete set-up and mod speculation and thus not even remotely close to a point much less a case.

Much like with Crazy, I have to assume you are town. If you are scum, town already lost so there is no point in arguing it. But as you asked I thought I would at least make it clear what implicates you as possible scum and hopefully put your uneasy mind at rest.

Back to important stuff...

Either way, the only optimal reason for scum to NOT target a cop in previous days (and thus waste nightkill) is that Tajo would have been lynched basically instantly since the 'conditions' of Tajo's automatic lynch (discussed throughout previous days) would have been satisfied.

It is not the only reason. By making sure they got a NK they come into the day at 2-6, meaning a mislynch gives them the needed 2-2 the following day. If they had targeted a cop they would have entered at 2-7 meaning the town is given an extra day. Regardless of what might have happened or not, getting that kill was definitely worth it if they thought about it.

Although yes, both theories are equally plausible.

i.e. you can hate me/dislike me, etc. but i will be lynching Tajo today and I don't see any reason, discussion etc. for why this shouldn't be so and who else to look at instead.

... And this is why you have no support. You sound too sure of yourself and are now admitting you aren't even looking at others.

Crazy-Tajo-Farside scum team and that the game will end today with Tajo's lynch.

I came to this conclusion through the POE myself. however the POE always leaves something out so lets reevaluate it...

If Pop is scum, then it's very likely Crazy was the GF/investigation immune scum. This would probably make Pop a goon.

If Mirth is scum she took a big Risk/Reward in claiming doc. But it's definitely not "unheard" of thing to do. However, I do think it's far less likely for a scum powerrole to fakeclaim Doc then it is a goon to do so. But it is always a possibility.

KK definitely fits the better GF fakeclaim though. A GF claiming to be a vanilla town is definitely well precedented and is by far the most safe route. However, I like the math in this game. 2 millers, 2 cops, 4 vanilla town, and a doc. I have to admit that sounds like a very nice town set-up. It definitly looks better then 2 millers, 2 cops, 4 vanilla, and 1 Death Miller when opposed by a goon, 1 GF, and 1 scum miller...

You know based entirely on set-up math I could support a Pop lynch followed by a Mirth lynch tomorrow if the game is still going. Either way I look at it MIrth and Pop are still my top two, and there is nothing wrong with ending the game by elimination the most likely. If scum is KK or Corv, they played a good game. The lazy side of me actually does half-way agree with Corv...

Corv does make a surprising point I myself was going to make when the day started but for some reason talked myself out of it. Pop does need to die today. His interactions with Crazy and his own role claim kinda forces his death today. It would actually be stupid of us not to lynch him. However, Corv, unlike you I don't have the luxury of being 100% guaranteed to be alive tomorrow so pardon me if I want my share of those 3 weeks you're throwing away...

[Korlash]

Ok hold up... I just responded to like 4-5 of Corv's points and I really wouldn't want forbiddan to feel compelled to kill me if we ever were to meet, so in the interest of her, myself, and the game... I deleted all my comments. I will leave it at this though:

Ah, but you see, it wouldn't be us meeting by chance. I would track you down and sharpen the Serial Killer knives I borrowed from Nat.

Corv, if you're going to make a statement like "Calling me scum is insane!" then don't ask us to call you scum in the first place. If I actually wanted you lynched, god help me Corv I don't think it would be as hard as you seem to think it would. Just think of this, you keep falsely accusing the rest of us of wanting to "end the day quickly" yesterday and here you are doing the exact same thing today. So here is what you are going to do, you wanted to "talk about Pop" yesterday, well do it. Talk about him. You have... lets see my share of 3 weeks is what, 5 days, Pop's has 5... so you have 10 days minimum before any hammer will happen. Use it.

Tajo: I think Mirth more likely to be godfather than KK. Thats it. I don't see what else there is to talk about it. I have already reread a great deal and have my own opinions on it, so unless you have something to add, I don't know what else to say.

... So you feel Mirth is more likely GF just because? Is it her name? Does Mirth strike anyone else as a common Mafia Don's name? You're entitled to your own opinions sure, but unless you tell us why you have them don't expect us to value them any more then we value hard boiled eggs... (No offense to anyone who highly values hard boiled eggs... I mean don't get me wrong, I enjoy a good hard boiled egg every now and then. Maybe not when thrown at a window, but when I need lunch on the go sure. A regular egg is hard to eat on the train you know... Where was I?... Oh right I was done...)

[Korlash]

People actuall maintain those things? Huh... I can't even remember what mine says... Something about a cat I think...

[Korlash]

We dont win a shit if the only confirmed town (Kor and Cor) start fighting with boiled eggs. Cor, you really need to chill out and Kor, that was really unnecessary since if anyone should doubt the other cop its Cor and not you, and we are working with the assumption that you both are confirmed. I try to understand you two (its hard, you cant imagine) but I (and I assume, you) want to win this game. So, enough fighting. Lets find scum. Thx Mirth for contributing with the fire, though.

Who's fighting? And what the hell did Mirth do?

i don't understand you guys at all but maybe that is just because i'm annoyed that it is essential hypocritical what has just been said by Tajo and Kor.

What's hypocritical? Yesterday you had a guilty on Farside and was actually telling us to "lynch Tajo" based on the statment "We'll lynch him tomorrow anyways, what's the big deal in the order." Then you falsely accuse the rest of us of wanting to end the day quickly because we said "Farside is the lynch for today." Note that even though we said that, we were still discussing other things. Now you come in today and tell us to more or less stop bloody talking and lynch Pop. Talk about annoying...

If you guys are so concerned about what happens *after* tajo and if Tajo isn't scum, then you guys need to generate the case, the evidence, etc. I simply see no reason to indulge or humor you.

Even though the two of us will be dead when it actually come time to talk about it?

6. I really dont think Crazy fits a Godfather role. Do you think that he would have come up guilty in sane investigations?

What kind of question is this? How does the answer in any way help us? It's impossible to prove either which way, and even if we could it doesn't much help us. The better question is "Do you think a role like Crazy's could exist along side a GF as well?" That at least has some merit in the game...

[Korlash]

Ha ha ha... I actually checked the game thread before my PM box... Take that prod! I beat you to it!

Apparently I haven't posted in this game in a while... hmmm... Well this fixes that!

[Korlash]

Vote: Pop

He got his say in a couple posts ago and the way things are going I don't have a lot of time to devote to this game.

[Korlash]

1) I targeted Forbiddan and found her to be INNOCENT! DEATH TO THE MAFIA ALIGNED MOD!

2)

- Kor, who did you investigate and could you tell me the paraphrase of the wording of you getting 'shot' at. (you mentioned that you knew your NK resistance was tested before, I need to know that *now*).

Under two conditions. 1, you have to say first whether you "lost" it last night or not, I'm not handing you a possible 'out'. and 2, if you did lose yours last night you have give give half of it first seeing as how I gave parts of it yesterday.

I believe you are a cop and I need to know what you think about me on this.

Well on the immunity subject it's up there. As far as cop or scum I think if you were scum you would have killed KK or Mirth. But scum do weird things all the time, hence the being careful with giving you free information.

I believe my point addresses it, but yes, I think Tajo was not a death miller but scum and there is 'another' one left. It could be mod mindgame or whatever else, but I don't consider it that likely at this point.

Well then you have to explain why Crazy flipped Vanilla town when if he was town and telling the truth should have flipped mafia goon. Because of this we still have to conclude Crazy was scum.

I think it is more likely that he was really a goon, and that previous nights and comments by the scum group show that there may be a SK.

it can't be a traditional SK then. 5 nights with a total of 3 people killed? There is no way that would have happened AND the two of us keep our immunities as long as we(I?) did. Because there was no secondary killing I can't assume there's an SK. And there's no other third party role that seems applicable here. Leads me to believe Pop's claim and keep the scum at Farside/Crazy.

You state: "no night kill... etc. etc. suggests that Kor was targeted and had his NK resistance reduced" but this doesn't make sense since Kor was already targeted and already had his NK resistance reduced and he has told us so. (kor please confirm).

Confirm what? That KK is mixed up? Yeah, I'll confirm that. I'm thinking he mixed me and you up.

[Korlash]

Kor: I do not know if I was targeted last night or not but I received no message from the mod or anything else that indicates that my NK resistance was reduced or affected.

Then I will have to be blunt and ask why you even want to know the message I got? I received a message, if you did not then you still have immunity. Besides, if you didn't receive a message you have nothing to compare mine to so knowing it is almost entirely useless.

The possible explanations of Crazy is "easy".

1. Crazy lied about targeting farside and really targeted someone else (scum lie). 2. Crazy was just a 'reverse death miller' that flips town upon his lynch. (scum)

I personally believe Crazy was a reverse death miller and that is how Tajo crafted his death miller ploy.

To say that Crazy was *not* scum (not you Kor but KK) and that scum is a 3 man team is simply not possible since the game would have ended.

I think I get it now, you believe a tarjo/farside/Crazy team? And as the game is still going you think of an SK.

Well I'm a fan of Occam's Razor. A) We cops have received our results under the Innocent/guilty rule. An SK does not fit that pattern. Sk's are not Innocent, and we have received no other guilty results. This evidence points to a GF over a SK. B) There has been no evidence of a second kill all game. This points to one scum team, which also suggest we are looking for a GF not an SK. C) Both the idea that Pop faked his claim off of Crazy's and the idea of mirror roles are equal unexplainable. Both are possible, both can be explained with the evidence at hand. The idea of Crazy/Pop scum team explains their buddying up, but so does the idea of Pop's role being true and his reasons for defending Crazy to be exactly what he said.

Based on points A and B and overlooking C for it's unexplainable nature I have to conclude Occam's Razor to suggest a GF over a SK. However this being LYLOish I'm willing to look at both possibilities equally.

I never received a message so I wanted to confirm whether or not if you really did. If you did, then I'm more likely to believe Mirth's doc claim; I believe your cop claim, and that leaves SC/KK as the one by PoE.

I did receive a message telling me my NK immunity was gone.

Kor: What do you think about the mod's flavor showing that Tajo *was* scum and not a death miller. I.e. 'you found a gun and this clearly shows, etc. Do you think the mod is messing with us and that tajo was a death miller?

What was the mod's flavor for Crazy? The only thing I saw in there was Crazy had to give something up. That could suggest him as scum giving up what made him look like scum.

As far as Pop goes, compare his to Farside's lynch.

1) Farside grinned and laughed maniacally, Pop died with a look of peace.
2) We found only paraphernalia on Farside, but found that AND a Gun on Pop. If a gun is what makes one mafia, why didn't Farside have one?

If we honestly wanted to argue Flavor, I would say Pop's looked TOO obviously trying to make him look mafia for him to be mafia. It's like in Court, if a guy has been set up you find a mountain of evidence against him, where-as if a guy really did a crime you find probably 2-3 really good things.

Also, what do you think about Corporate's burning to death, gunshot heard, etc.

hmmm, well seeing as how the Mod tells us that gun shot was from outside I think it suggests there were some hunters outside that shot a deer, or a tree, maybe backed over a deer and a tree with a truck as well.

U..U founded anuther wun uv us!? How...How dar u! wee...wee r teh mafier! wee wull not b stoped so easy! U wull nevar find meee!

And? Forbiddan said a long time ago sometimes the mafia wakes up and takes credit for things they didn't do. Plus read it. It was obviously written by a mafia member, NOT a SK. It suggests One left, one MAFIA left... Which suggests GF yet again.

Fuck you.
Last post.

Rudest dead body I've ever seen... <.<

I don't know what you want from me tajo and at this point, I think we'll just have to wait until the end of the game.

Talking to a dead body hanging from the ceiling... I thought you were the "sane" one? XD

[Korlash]

I guess I am nitpicking (hey, if mafia can claim SK's kills, then SK can claim mafia note, etc.) but my SK thoughts are because according to the wiki, SK's have a different killing method and we have NKs with 'bullets' and then NKs with burned body and 'explosion' (happened to both millers). but ... well... i suppose it doesn't really matter too much whether it is a godfather-SK or just a godfather.

That is sometime true. However I have found in some games with only one scum team the mod will mix and match the night kill methods in order to keep the idea of an SK alive. I try to base my thoughts of possible SK's on facts like number of deaths instead of on circumstantial evidence like Night kill flavor.

I do notice that Forbiddan doesn't keep track of cause of death on the front page. That does imply to me she doesn't deem it valuable evidence. It is a little outguessing the mod, but what flavor speculation isn't right?

Kor: do you think I am mafia?

I hold the same feelings toward you that I did yesterday. I think you being mafia is a definitely possibility and it does seem to add up quiet nicely. But regardless of that you won't be lynched. So while I will gladly show the case against you at any time I will also politely remind you you will not be lynched and should not take the attacks personally.

I protected Kor. No coin flipping involved here. I don't know what to think about a third party role (if third party, there must be some kind of weird dynamic at play, due to the low number of kills). Occam's Razor would probably point to one of Tajo/Crazy/Farside not being scum, and it would have to be Tajo or Crazy in that category. I guess I'll have to completely reread this.

Which means Pop (if you continue with Occam's Razor) as Crazy being town requires him to have lied at some point and no town should be "expected" to lie like he did.

a) my protect worked 47.5%
b) scum sent no kill 47.5%
c) we have a weird third party that might not be able to kill 5%

If the chance of a third party no kill is that low I hardly see the benefit from worrying too much about it. I like covering all our odds but I never put too much into a 100:1 bet you know.

In my mind the best thing for scum Mirth or KK to do would have been to target Corv. I don't think KK would have targeted me last night So if he is scum I would say he choose to no kill. Mirth would probably have choose to no kill to help cover her doctor story. So the actual night action seems fairly untelling either way.

[Korlash]

Tell us why Corvuus has the cough up info (AGAIN) for you to corfim (AGAIN).

Because I was the first one to mention the message about losing my NK immunity. I don't give a damn what he claimed first, on this particular subject He has to go first.

Citation needed.

Look it up yourself it has to deal with flavor.

I still harbor suspicions about Mirth's doc-claim, but Korlash's claim isn't as rock solid as he'd like us to believe.

When have I ever wanted anyone to believe my claim was rock solid?

[Korlash]

Sure but there's a limit on how much insider info scum can be given. I mean the mod can't say something like "There are two cops, a doc and 4 vanilla town!" or something like that. And most sane and logical people can make up "good" sounding flavor for any theme game, so even if scum weren't given any insider info they could still play the claim well enough that it seems they were.

What sort of insider info are you thinking here?

[Korlash]

I know some mods deem a game a mod win if there is ever two consecutive night/day periods with no deaths so we could potentially risk that outcome. And as I hallucinated during rule 3 it could potentially be the ruling on this...

as far as no lynching goes that's perfect. We should be able to cross someone off in 4 out of 5 possible night scenarios which should at least boil the game down for some of us. However I refuse to no lynch, so instead can we lynch lamp? I do not love lamp and it needs to die... Providing lynching lamp causes day to end...

[Korlash]

And um... Yeah didn't see the link before I posted... >.> *cough*

[Korlash]

I.e. Cor and Kor are cops, Mirth and KK are the only possible choices, 50% chance of getting it right.

This being LYLO you need to think about the other players. One of KK and Mirth is town. Well... at least one... Obviously they don't, at least KK, auto believe me. So no lynching could help alleviate that, or it could boil our choices to 1. Either way it should help narrow people's minds.

If we no lynch and, for some weird reason scum decide not to submit 'no night kill' but actually kill someone, then either they kill Kor (cop) which doesn't help, or they kill a 'non-cop' which results in an auto-lose for them.

There is another possibility. And the result of that possibility would be beneficial.

Also killing me is helpful as it eliminates the thought of me being scum from both Mirth's and KK's minds.

I've already stated why it is doubtful and given some reasons (there are definitely more, the one I hadn't mentioned at all yet is that if Tajo is a death miller and Farside and Kor were scum together, then he could have directed/followed me onto tajo, etc. etc. instead he said 'screw you corv', etc. etc.) and so I have Kor at being about 1% chance (actually probably less) of being scum.

Not that it should matter but another reason to use in my defense would be me not using my claim to try and lynch you. Back when I first claimed all the scum were alive, if I was scum I should have then tried to get you mislynched and win it for my team. It's not exactly fool proof proof, but it's something to think about.

In fact, this will happen and no one will win. Adding this rule now. Either that or I could have the mafier have a burst of energy from getting a full nights sleep three nights in a row and kill all of you. Either works.

So we have at least one night where we can no lynch without risking anything. I would suggest we take it. The chance of possibly gaining one of the 4 good results would definitely be worth it plus we would then have a mind game we could play with the scum.

I honestly don't see anything wrong with a no lynch. If the scum choose to no kill then fine, the cops control the game tomorrow and if the scum want to leave it at 50/50 they lose, so be it. If they do choose to kill someone, that's good for us.

[Korlash]

Oi. A WIFOM defense at this point in the game? "Hey, remember when I buddied up to you? Good times those were. I could have killed you...that makes us best friends now!"

Lucky you even get that. Last I checked I don't even need to defend myself. So ha ha ha... But yeah, if you think I went through the trouble to fakeclaim my role and not try to use it to win the game then you have problems. I could have easily claimed to be an ordinary insane cop and Corv's PR and Nk imunity would have almost certainly made my claim look the better. Not to be modest, but if I had wanted to I could certainly have had a go at knocking Corv out when I claimed.

Then you ask me to try to convince you of something? Uh... What chance do I honestly have?

'Bout a 7...

I posted some some examples of scummy behavior (he clears you on the role claim, then demands the right to clear you again on the NK-loss PM), but you didn't comment on that.

You find not handing out free info to a guy I have serious doubts about scummy? What are you smoking. That's like you giving me intimate details of your role PM. Insane...

[Korlash]

Seeing the Mafier note at the beginning of the day jarred me of my confidence, so I re-questioned everything and you're okay but Korlash's cop claim is a little shakier than I'd like.

Right missed this...

How? The only thing you have seemed to have a problem enough with to mention is my demanding of Corv taking the SECOND step in the Loss of NK immunity thing and the fact I claimed second.

[Korlash]

So KK hasn't been paying attention to anything I say? That's a good insight to know. Here's a tip, if you think a guy is scum... Read what he posts. Just, you know, hint hint. I've only called him scum twice in the past ... couple of pages and even outlined a case for his benefit. The more you know right.

[Korlash]

Sorry, I've been re-reading the past. Like the part where you confirm that Corvuus' cop PM is legit. And the present like the part where you says that Corvuus should consider you legit because you didn't try to get him lynched.

Never said he should consider me legit for not trying to lynch him. He already considers me legit, I don't need to convince him of anything. That was purely for your benefit.

I'm amiable to lynching Mirth, but she's gone until Sunday(i think?). So I'm content exploring my suspicions on Korlash until then.

You're doing a great job what with the ignoring my question about what parts of my claim you deem "shakey." You can lie to yourself about "exploring" all you want but unless you bring something into light I won't be able to set you straight...

Oh right,

Vote: Forbiddanlight

I want to know if lynching the mod ends the day, besides, she came up innocent! LYNCH THE SCUM!

[Korlash]

It could... But I got an Innocent... So she can't be a GF... miller maybe...

[Korlash]

LIES! Why didn't you claim when everyone else did?

Obvious fakeclaim people...

[Korlash]

We still have the option of turning the bluff into more then a bluff. If the scum do no kill tonight we can always no lynch again and force them to either take a mutual lose or kill someone. No I don't like handing my fate over to the scum but if I have to lose I want them to lose too. (And yes, being able to blame my loss on the scum for not being productive is also a bonus)

Whether we choose (or have) to do that is entirely up to tonight's actions and tomorrow's circumstances. So by no means am I proposing this as a legitimate strategy... yet...

I'll still vote No Lynch today to see how it goes, but I don't have much confidence in the gambit anymore.

That's pretty dumb to say then. It's like when you vote someone and then say "It's just for pressure..." it accomplishes nothing. Even if you don't have faith in something you should still pretend to. Not to mention the "bluff" is still there. Hell this time it's even stronger. Instead of forcing the scum to pick between potential lose and mutual draw they have to pick between potential lose and mutual lose. The "gambit" has actually grown stronger when you think about it.

Tomorrow I'll probably vote Mirth over Korlash.

... Why?

[Korlash]

does the cycle start with today's lynch or last nights no kill?

[Korlash]

Well I have now officially investigated every player in this game... yay for me!

[Korlash]

I also have investigated everyone in existence.

Have you investigated FL and yourself?

If you want me lynched, why aren't you voting me?

That's a fairly stupid question to ask in the endgame territory we are in right now. Not meaning to be offensive, just tired...

[Korlash]

Actually, Kor, it isn't. It takes 3 to lynch. I highly doubt that I would be speedlynched after one person places a vote on me.

Exactly why placing a vote is meaningless. What is the point of voting someone if everyone knows nothing will come of it?

[Korlash]

Kor: you're putting words in my mouth. votes arent meaningless, but in 4 person lylo the first vote isnt dangerous.

I haven't put any words in your mouth, I'd be careful with false accusations right about now. And whether a vote is dangerous or not doesn't change the fact it's meaningless and serves no point.

[Korlash]

... I did not. That is me calling it meaningless and me asking you why you felt it wasn't...

[Korlash]

hammer? I barely know her... Wait that makes no sense... I think I heard it in a movie once...

[Korlash]

Ironically G Gundam is the only one I watched and I have no idea what's going on... Although Schwarz Bruder win's most awesome any day of the week.

And why would anyone want to slap lil' ol' me? (>T.T)>

I dunno...Wong is STILL pretty cool. And c'mon, Allenby...hell, I TOTALLY think she got shafted not getting with Domon. But ah well. Anyway, mostly I watched it back when it was on toonami, and recently re watched it because it's hilarious. I mean, just so ridiculously hilarious. I realize the quotes don't DIRECTLY relate to insanity, but for some reason evil=insanity quite often in anime

[Korlash]

*shrugs*

[Korlash]

Well I suppose I could make a vote now... Ironically though I think KK is likelyer scum then Mirth... XD yay for prolonging the game...

But no, seriously. between the two late game activity seems to "suggest" KK is the scum. for one, KK questioned my role and Mirth has questioned yours Corv. You're the most confirmed between the two of us so scum trying to mislynch you or discredit you in anyway is kinda pointless. So I think it's most likely they would just call you confirmed and if they wanted to question one of us would turn it on me.

That is just one of my crap-tastic lines of thinking. I still think GF is more likely to have claimed Vanilla. KK was the first to place a vote today and Mirth hasn't even done it yet, KK's own words were "I'm dying to see if I'm right about you" meaning he wants the day over. Activity wise they have both posted close enough to each other although I think Mirth is putting more effort in with a reread that I doub't scum would do. And of course not pushing anything on KK or Myself becuase she doesn't see anything scummy... I mean what scum in endgame isn't going to try to get someone else lynched?

So between the two of them I would have to say I think KK is more likely the scum.

[Korlash]

I'm just being straightforward. I believed that Mirth was more likely to be scum than you, so that's the direction I voted in. The fact that you didn't immediately hammer after Corvuus voted means that I'm right. Mirth is the Godfather.

You know I guess It's because I'm at a lose right now but this statement really strikes me as off. For starters if you are town and Mirth is scum the "town" is being very confident and risky and the scum is being more subtle and not trying as hard as she could to save herself. The confidence you show in this post really doesn't strike me as town either. I know this late in the game you probably have POE'd it down to Mirth but to still say it like "I'm right" is a little much. A phrase like "The only possible explination is Mirth" seems like a more appropriate responce.

Crazy-Farside-Mirth makes more sense to me than Crazy-Farside-SC (reading Tajo and not myself).

You are basing most of your Mirth suspicion on what Tarjo said? I mean I'll assume pop was town just as quickly as you will but I won't trust his word like law either.

[Korlash]

I vote stuff! *chants* stuff....stuff....stuff...

[Korlash]

Uh Corv... Seeing as how you can't lynch Mirth without me would you mind explaing Tajo's "case" on her for my benefit? For starters I never really trusted Pop this game for anything he said. He pushed for the no lynch, he buddied with Crazy, hell he even claimed DM and tried to play it off like him claiming like he did and the presence of real millers confirmed him. I'm hesitatant to believe anything said by him also due to the fact he flipped scum. Regardless of his role I'm not putting this entire game into a theory brought up by a guy who flipped scum. Lastly as you're the one voting I want to hear YOUR case, not Pop's.

[Korlash]

Korlash, do you really think that Mirth-town literally can't find anything to suspect me with?

No but i think Mirth-Scum could.

ForbiddanLight tipped her hand and stated that there was only 1 scum left. Corvuus' PM was confirmed by you, which means no matter that the only way that he is scum is if he's your partner.

... Ok... Chalk another one up in the bin of things said already...

When you asked for Corvuus to state his "shot at" PM in order to confirm him again, I got suspicious. Especially since Corvuus never got a "shot at" PM. But it makes absolutely no sense for Korlash-scum not to lynch Mirth-doc since he could shoot Kublai Khan-townie and win the game.

... I feel compelled to respond to this but it seems like such a worthless paragraph I don't know where to start. I could start with the fact you didn't "know" he didn't get a shot at Pm until after I asked him meaning finding it suspicious I asked him for that fact suggests you knew he hadn't been shot at before hand.

If I may re-introduce the concept of setup mirrors again.
Death-miller vs Scum-miller
Insane Cop vs Sane cop
Miller vs Godfather
"Rusty Doc" vs ???????

interesting... So why 2 millers? What, one for the "mirrior" and the other just to look good?

So again, it's nice that Mirth doesn't suspect me, but it's bullcrap. Mirth is asking Corvuus to re-state his PM because she's stalling long enough for me to say something stupid and rope myself. It's obvious at this point who the cops are and process of elimination should have her at my throat if she had the town's interests in mind.

Oh? you know what she is thinking? I suspect Corv, and I'm a cop. you're preaching to the wrong choir dude. You are arguing that doing the exact thing I did makes her scum? So what, it was fine when I did it? What is this, selective scum hunting? POE is all fine and dandy but you can't twist facts to suit your POE target.

You want t know what's more likely scum? Not the act of attacking the confirmed cop, but the act of attacking the not confirmed cop. Corv's lynch is impossible, mine however does have a chance of happening. I am not confirmed. So why would scum attack Corv over me? I at least carry the chance of my mislynch. The scum in this situation can only do two things. Attack their opponent and attack me. Those are the only two possible chances of a mislynch. You have done both, Mirth has done neither. Hmmm... I wonder which is the scum...

So Korlash, you really don't find her behavior odd at all?

Did I ever say I don't find her behavior odd at all? I might not remember, can you show me where I said this before I start falsely accusing you of putting words in my mouth?

That aside, nope. Her behavior is a lot like mine. How can I possible find that odd?

[Korlash]

It seems we are in a stalemate... You are mistaken Mirth. If you were to vote KK and so were I come deadline either one of you could be lynched. So you won't die "regardless" you'll just die 3 out of 4 times...

I personally am not going to let this end in a deadline lynch becuase that has scum win written all over it. I'm still willing to hear the mirth case or at least be pointed to it and I would vote no lynch to prevent the deadline from falling.

[Korlash]

so wait let me get this straight... You are willing to die and lose me the game instead of voting someone who actually has the best chance of being scum regardless of what you may believe based on logic and stuff I said once?

...

*cries*

[Korlash]

Sure... ready for it? he claimed vanilla...

Ta da! That is the biggest issue on which I am basing this super important decision! Who else but Korlash?

But no seriously, we are looking for a GF. In a game like this I don't see the GF risking either a cop or a Doc claim during that massclaim of ours, nto when they had a goon they could have sacrificed instead.

On a more minor note recent activities like KK voting and you not for instance also make me think him the scum over you. Corv is impossible to lynch, so even if he is scum he wins. So worrying about him is useless.

So heres what the scene is. Either A) You do nothing, you die, you lose. b) you worry about Corv and waste your vote, you die at deadline, you losw. Or C) You vote KK, he maybe gets lynched, you maybe win or maybe lose.

I don't know but option C seems like the only choice for you...

[Korlash]

better to probably lose then lose for sure...

[Korlash]

Hmm.. I guess that means that SlySly, Llamafluff, & Hoopla were secretly Godfathers too.

Next time you strawman me scum you better do a good job so I can't throw it back in your face like this.

Godfathers are more likely to claim a powerrole that can't be verified. Do we have one of those in this game?

Bullshit. Back this up or remove it from the table. No Godfather would risk himself or herself in the option of outing a cop or doc if thescum could just as easily sacrifice a goon to do it. Why sac a power role when you can sac a vanilla? It's point blank unrefutable logic. The only argument to this is the actual players. IF you think Mirth as GF is more likely to claim Doc or Farside as goon is more likely to claim vanilla you can bring that to light otherwise you won't win this argument.

Mirth didn't claim during the massclaim. She claimed the day before. Then her full "rusty" claim gave her an excuse in case there was a second killing group that could expose her (which she then prodded for).

Actually that is a good point then. It is increasingly more likely scum will fakeclaim regardless of their abilities if forced to claim singuarly as claiming vanilla at that time makes their lynch more likely. How did her rusty claim give her an excuse? And why would she need an excuse for a second killing group? If there was a second killing group why isn't she dead? If she even thoguht there would be she should have expected to be dead anyways and so wouln't need an excuse. And where is this prod of hers?

[Korlash]

Mirth claimed Doctor while she was at L-1. If a Godfather has to claim a powerrole to save their neck, then doctor is a safer claim that cop.

Based on....?

After Corvuus claimed NK-resistence, she amended her doc claim to state that she was not 100% up to date. But she had already protected Corvuus twice and seemed to have no worry that "not up to date" may mean that she would kill her patients (a common doc variant).

Is there a reason you are using "not up to date" instead of "rusty"? And had anyone pressed her for more flavor before she "amended" her claim or had it been for the most part accepted as is. Such as, did she purpously avoid answering questions of her claim until after Corv claimed or did no one think to clear up her role until after he claimed?

And uh, what exactly do you think is proven by her not having fear of her ability killing her patients?

She didn't know if there was a second killing group or not, and tried to prod the info out of Forbiddanlight:

And? Is asking the mod questions a scum tell now?

The main reason she was worried about extra killers is because if the town had any sort of vigilante roles, they could test her claim. But 'rustyness' gave her a super-convinient excuse for her role being impossible to verify during the course of the game. Since we know that not to be the case now, her rustyness was superfluent. But she didn't know that at the time she claimed it.

Right becuase you as town know the "main reason" for what Mirth did. i will probably never vote Mirth now based on this statement alone. If you are town you word stuff really bad and you need to work on that. When you speculate things, you do not state them as fact.

Die scum die... etc... Corv can we lynch this guy now?

Plus, there's the setup argument. I know the millers/godfather argument was a stretch, but you have to admit that all the powerroles have something to balance them. Why does the rusty doc have no counter-part? Why have 2 NK-resistent cops if there's a doc to protect them?

You're lack of an imagination makes me weep for your future spawn. You need to look at this game better. The roles might not be "mirrors" they could just as easily be "insane" versions. A rusty doctor could simply be a doctor that has no chance of protecting her target. That's what I would call an insane freaking doctor. This is balanced by the cops geting their NK immunity. The millers are insane vanilla town. The Death miller is like an insane miller. And Crazy is like an insane goon. And of course one could argue a GF to simply be a goon with imunity to investigation which is like a miller version of a goon and so is arguably an insane goon as well.

You do not know this set-up anymore then I do but the fact you stick to one option which is pure speculation as if it were fact only strengths the idea you made all this up just so it ended with Mirth being scum. And any speculation made for the sole purpous of making a singular player look like scum is not in the interest of the town.

So once more, die scum die.

Vote: KK

I'm confident with the vote now.

[Korlash]

So then that part of KK's "case" is complete crap! YAY! Now he can die in peace! Hang like a bat... kick the bucket... hmmm none of these are funny... Now he can... choke on a frog... hmmm... I don't have it today I guess...

[Korlash]

@ Corv: Why do you think KK is town when he is so obviously scum?

[Korlash]

No need to get personal and insulting.

There is no way in hell any sane person could find that insulting...

To answer your questions (quickly, cause I have to rush out to work), yes those opinions are all my speculations. Those speculations are based on the process of elimination (eliminating both you & Corvuus), so from my POV, the only possible scum left is Mirth. So, yes, I'm stating that as a fact. From my vantage point, I do know the setup. Mirth is scum.

But you still don't speak for her. You cannot know why she did things or for what purpose other stuff was for. Like that thing with the vig. Even if Mirth is scum you can't know that and so you can't play it off as fact. Even if you "know" someone is mafia you cannot make shit up. That's end of story.

Since you've decided that I'm scum based on the speculation that a Godfather will always claim vanilla and you've been reading everything I've written through a "He's scum!" filter, I've become fairly frustrated that I don't haev the magic words that can win this game for the town.

I haven't been reading it through a he's scum filter. In fact I seem to remember conceding a point to you a while ago but I could be thinking of another game. Most of the shit you have been saying is scummy. I'm not at fault for seeing everything you post as scummy if it is.

Yeah, but seriously, you all should have figured out the mafier. I mean, Llamafluff had it pretty well, IIRC.

seeing as how I'm listed as dead vanilla town there is no way this game is really over... It's a pretty good joke though but I hope you warned KK... I mean the mafia before hand so he doesn't slip up...

[Korlash]

Ha ha ha... You can't fool me Forbiddan, I R 2 Smartz fur thats!

[Korlash]

And you would have gotten away with it too if not for these metal kids and their little dog too! *evil laugh*

yay for cross-references...

[Korlash]

Look, a powerrole like Doctor is perfectly safe for mafia to claim if they know they control all the night kills. That way they can always claim to have protected X while Y dies at night. If there is another killing role in the game, then it runs the risk of ruining the claim story. Hence she come up with the bullshit role of "rusty doc".

And how is a rusty doc a bullshit role in this game?

I have the luxury of being certain that Mirth is scum from my persepective, and likewise she should be sure that I am scum by process of elimination. The cops in this game are confimed and therefore are off-limits.

Repeating stupid little tid-bits like this over and over just wastes time and space. Can we stop freaking doing it already?

There is no way that Corvuus is scum because the only way a godfather would claim nk-resistent cop is if had A) a scum-mate to back his claim or B) knowledge of the game setup.

So you are pretending to be an expert on other people's scum claim dos and don'ts.

And there is no way that Korlash is scum because you would have piled on and quick-lynched if you were.

no... I wouldn't have... but that's beside the point because i'm not scum. However, this should also be evidence to Corv that Mirth is not scum. If you believe scum would want to quick hammer you should also believe scum would want to tie the vote in order to save themselves. As Mirth isn't doing that, she has some confirmation like I do. maybe not as much, but there is still some there.

So now our backs are against the deadline wall and the major reasons that you are voting for me is because any townie who survives until the endgame must be godfather and you think Mirth is pro-town because she didn't vote for who should be her most likely suspect. Is that the jist of it?

No actually it's because you seem to constantly try to strawman my case and put words in my mouth. Nowhere did I ever say anything about any townie surviving to endgame meaning anything, so that's a full blown lie from you. And Mirth not voting for you is only one of a series of stackable reasons regarding late game activities.

So once again, die you piece of scum, die.

No. You claimed to be a (not up to date/rusty/useless) doctor because you couldn't risk being a normal doctor if there was a non-mafia killing role.

So here's what I get from this... Mirth asked about second killing groups becuase they could expose he but in reality any non-town second killing group would never admit to anyting that exposes mirth, they would just kill her the next night, so getting a safeclaim for it is just retarded on her part.And any pro-town killing roles that would expose her would never answer to questions regarding second mafia groups, so asking that question to find vigs would also be retarded on her part.

So you're arguing Mirth did something illogical to help prepare for a situation that would never happen?

[Korlash]

This means that the game is down to Mirth or me. I know I'm not scum, therefore it's Mirth. That is the most sane, rational, obvious, clear conclusion I can reach.

I don't care. You still can't make shit up. You can't alter facts or evidence to hep your POE work.

For Mirth, if she were town, it should have also been the most sane, rational, obvious, clear choice to go after me. But she didn't. She wasted time with pointless inquiries into Corvuus' role (after you expressed doubt about Corvuus, hmmm..) and is now jumping on the Haiku bandwagon because it's her only chance at victory.

It's really stupid for you or anyone else to push Mirth going after Corv as a reason she is scum as i was the first person to do that after he claimed. That is not scummy to me. It never will be. So shut the hell up about it. It's another thing everyone keeps repeating that will never change.

I'm absolutely flabbergasted that you think that rusty doc is a legit role in this game.

And you don't even blink an eye at death miller, death miller scum, and TWO nightkill immune cops? Rusty doc seems the most sane and logical role out of all of them right now.

[Korlash]

Woohoo! Someone was able to cover for my stupidity! I love when that happens!

[Korlash]

Town nearly screwed up the end there...ok, well Korlash nearly screwed up the end there by being wrong.

Yeah well I like to think I did my part in helping to swing the town around D3... So I think I have the right to be wrong in endgame!

At one point I knew I wouldn't be able to convince Korlash of anything (before he voted for me even), but I tried anyways because I was worried about Corvuus having a sudden change of heart. I was thankful for populartajo setting Corvuus against Mirth, because I don't think I could have done it on my own. Mirth is a crazy good mafia player that I fear will best me in every subsequent game I play against her.

You're right, you couldn't have convinsed me of anything, neither could Mirth. The only person I was waiting for was Corv to reillistrate his case on mirth which either he didn't do or I completely missed it. The only thing I knew was that he seemed to have based his entire case on Pop, who I didn't even trust when he was alive. There was no way I was going to trust him dead.

In retrospect I should have done what I had planned to do anyways which was to not vote. As I was the only person I knew was town I wanted to be the one to hammer. And in retrospect to that I should have just hammered Mirth and been done with this game like I wanted with Crazy's lynch...

You know what, whatever, we won... that's the important thing. I doubt anyone is going to dwell on my mistake for that long...

[Que Fallout 4 cameo of newspaper clipping of event]

damnit...

[Korlash]

Right so me being wrong about Mirth is different from you being wrong about Crazy... how? Right, it's not.

[Korlash]

wait sorry I was admiring myself in this mirror... did you post something?

And I believe I was right about farside as well which makes us even... Except I was wrong about you so I think that technically makes you win a draw... hmmm...

[Korlash]

Yeah I took the not voting thing as a good sign. My bad I guess...

[Korlash]

Um... 2 invetigation immune mafia and 3 pro town millers isn't weak enough for you?