WHY NOT CONFIRM, SCUMZ?
Mini 1243: Magician Mafia (Game Over)
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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Why do you care if someone throws a fit, Shift?-
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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In post 20, springlullaby wrote:Judging by join date and the above, I'm saying shift is town.
Both of those things are null tells.-
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In post 26, springlullaby wrote:In post 21, Amrun wrote:In post 20, springlullaby wrote:Judging by join date and the above, I'm saying shift is town.
Both of those things are null tells.
Combined, I don't think so.
I think if a typical mafia player profile existed, shift being frustrated and pre-defensive about certain aspects of play after the amount of time he has spent on this site feels about right.
Why is that indicative of him being town?-
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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I'm voting for shift.
Just bolding his name is not enough to vote for him-
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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Okay, first things first:
In post 41, Crab Canon wrote:Vi wrote:*brings suitcase on stage*
*opens suitcase to reveal smaller suitcase inside*
*opens smaller suitcase to reveal a safebox*
*opens safebox to reveal a mystery box*
*opens mystery box to reveal a one-shot Cult Cop ability a matryoshka doll*
*shoves large pile of excess baggage to side*
I don't even know what this means or how it correlates with me spitting cherry coke but I love this post restriction.
Junpei wrote:Vi, tell me, are you allowed to break your post restriction X amount of times per day, X amount of times per game? Incorporate the number "1" into your response for the former, and the number "2" for the latter. The second number will be what X is, so you should incorporate that into your answer as well. If you are not allowed to break restriction ever, use the number "3".
Wow that is complicated.
Unvote, vote saulres
I know you'd mentioned saulres before, but why did you only finally vote him in a post that didn't mention him at all? Is buddying with Junpei enough to make him scum, in your opinion?
Saulres is null at best, and in fact, I get town vibes from him. The scum here is Junpei. After CC and Vi voted, Junpei very clearly fabricated reasons to suspect saulres. It read to me as looking for an excuse to get on the biggest wagon - and, as ace noted, the "no quicklynch please" indicates that Junpei expected this wagon to result in a lynch. All of Junpei's subsequent responses have not read genuine to me.
VOTE: Junpei-
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Why is that suspicious?
I'm not answering them because they're stupid and I see no reasonable method of scumhunting in them.
You're missing the point. Crab asked HOW you used them to scumhunt; you answered, "I use them to scumhunt."-
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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Shift, what made you think that anyone was voting Junpei for asking RQS questions?-
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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In post 117, Shift wrote:In post 116, Amrun wrote:Shift, what made you think that anyone was voting Junpei for asking RQS questions?
Skimmed, saw something about his RQS questions and something about hopping on the saulres bandwagon which obviously I'm not going to complain about.
Why do you have time to write a wall based on false premises, but not enough time to read?-
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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In post 126, 4nxi3ty wrote:
yup that looks like the case, at least he has more of a tendency to flail.
vote: crab canon
So you think Shift is scum and you vote Crab Canon? o.O-
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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sottyrulez, why do you think scum would know that Vi's post restriction is real?-
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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Sotty, haven't we done this song and dance before?
I ask a lot of questions. Sometimes I don't do anything with the answers because I thought it was going to go somewhere it didn't (or I forget). And sometimes I make an alignment decision or get an alignment nudge based on the question but don't state it because it's not strong or isn't relevant at the time.
And I don't know why scum would necessarily assume Vi was telling the truth. She's lied about post restrictions before. Personally, I'll probably never believe a post restriction from Vi again, at least one like this, but as long as she provides content I'm okay with it. It isn't indicative of alignment in the slightest, in my opinion.
Besides Junpei, I find Shift scummy (already stated), saulres townish (already stated), have a vague town read on Crab Canon, and think SL is probably town for trying to Shift (I think it was shift) of as town in the beginning even though it didn't make sense to do so. That's what I recall off of the top of my head, but I think someone agreed with me about Junpei, so that person gets some town points as well for echoing my thoughts.-
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In post 166, sottyrulez wrote:In post 158, Amrun wrote:sottyrulez, why do you think scum would know that Vi's post restriction is real?
Sotty already covered this, but I'd like to add to it.
Are you really trying to argue this as a non point? Do you think town has as equal an interest as scum in just accepting that Vi has a post restriction and being happy with the idea of having a more challenging line of communication with Vi? Because I don't really see how that kind of thinking makes any kind of sense as being equally/more likely to come from a town perspective.
Oh, but Zach, are you forgetting the crux of your argument?
It isn't a non-point at all.
In this line of questioning, I am thinking of this:
In post 139, sottyrulez wrote:Post 63 is a massive red flag for us. What makes them certain that Vi's not faking the post restriction? Reaction here reeks of inside knowledge. (Also I personally disliked the way they seemed to attempt to shut down this line of discussion by lumping it into an accusation that attempting to communicate with Vi is trying to modkill Vi.)
I am not talking about the fact that you are saying CC was trying to stop efforts to communicate with Vi; that's something else entirely.
I am taking issue with the premise that assuming that Vi's post restriction is real = inside knowledge, ESPECIALLY for a hydra involving Juls. Juls and I both played in a game where Vi faked a highly restrictive post restriction. Vi was town. I don't know if CC believes the post restriction; I don't believe that their posts are necessarily preclusive to them not believing it. The way I interpret it, they simply said that they believed such questions might lead to a modkill and requested that line of questioning be stopped. I don't agree with THAT sentiment, but I do disagree with you finding scum intent from CC assuming the post restriction is real. My guess is that VP has been doing most of the posting, and he does seem to believe Vi right off the bat. My point is that even if the slot IS scum and Vi is town,they still don't know the post restriction is real.Therefore, there is no inside information to be had and that point is invalid. In FACT, I'd go as far as saying that CC is town for attempting to use Vi's "pr" to mostly clear her as town. This hydra has the means and the experience to make this pr a completely nulltell for Vi, just like me, but instead chooses to push this is a town tell. I see no scum motivation here - only town motivation.
Why is this a non issue? You are saying, "Crab Canon is scum because of x, y, and z," and I'm saying x is invalid.
Since sotty asked, let's look at those x, y, and z. X and y are above; I disagree with x. I think y is valid, but that you're making too big of a deal out of it. I don't see a particularly high likelihood of scum trying to stop the discussion about Vi's possible pr out of scummy motivations. Z is as follows:
In post 139, sottyrulez wrote:Also dislike post 121. It's non committal to shift and potentially an associative tell contingent on one of them flipping scum. Not as strong, but I'm not used to seeing that kind of waffling from VP.
Here is the relevant part of the post in question:
In post 121, Crab Canon wrote:I can't make heads or tails of Shift, honestly.
It was in response to this post of mine.
I don't see any scum motivation for stating a read (or in this case, a non-read) on Shift. CC could easily have ignored my vague post before it and avoided stating any read (which would be much more noncommital than stating that he was having trouble reading Shift). In fact, now that I'm looking at it more closely, why didn't you (sottyrulez) call ME out for being noncommital on Shift? My post was easily as noncommital as CC's, and it came first, yet you call him out for it and not me.
I'm tired so I'm not sure that made sense. Ask me questions if it doesn't and I'll sort it out later.
Sotty:
I'd really like you to go through my ISO and point out all the useless questions I've done nothing with. Seriously.-
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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oh crap that became a wall. I formally apologize.-
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In post 193, sottyrulez wrote:In post 17, Amrun wrote:Why do you care if someone throws a fit, Shift?
No follow up.
Obviously, I used it to inform my read on Shift, but I will give you that I stated nothing explicitly in thread about this.
sr wrote:
No follow up.
Not at all true. I used this to inform my read on springlullaby, and I even talked about it in a previous post.
In post 85, Amrun wrote:Why does Junpei look all right to you?
No follow up.
I don't think this question was ever answered, actually. SL, please to be answering this.
sr wrote:In post 116, Amrun wrote:Shift, what made you think that anyone was voting Junpei for asking RQS questions?
No follow up.
In case this wasn't self explanatory...
In post 118, Amrun wrote:In post 117, Shift wrote:In post 116, Amrun wrote:Shift, what made you think that anyone was voting Junpei for asking RQS questions?
Skimmed, saw something about his RQS questions and something about hopping on the saulres bandwagon which obviously I'm not going to complain about.
Why do you have time to write a wall based on false premises, but not enough time to read?
This one SHOULD be obvious, really. I asked Shift a series of questions and when I received the answers, I postulated that he is scum. Why would you assume that the two are not correlated?
sr wrote:In post 137, Amrun wrote:So you think Shift is scum and you vote Crab Canon? o.O
No follow up.
This is, in fact, the only question I haven't followed up, and because I'm not sure what to do with the answer. I think what quadz did was stupid, to be honest, but I don't know if there is scum intent there.
I have nothing I want to do with this question right at this minute, but in my brain I have this marked as a possible associative tell if Shift flips scum. If Shift were to die and flip town, nothing would ever come of this question. And I think that is okay.
sr wrote:In post 158, Amrun wrote:sottyrulez, why do you think scum would know that Vi's post restriction is real?
I thought this was obvious, but maybe it wasn't seeing your reaction. Will to give this the benefit of the doubt.
The pattern was you would asked a bunch of questions that looked to go no where. It's a way of generating content without actually committing to reads. Before I asked you directly to give your reads there was little in your ISO to show what you were thinking or if you were doing anything with these answers you were getting. Asking questions helps determine alignment, I know. But I'm not giving anyone the benefit of the doubt if all they are going to do is ask questions that look like they go nowhere.
But that isn't a pattern that's been established from this game. My playing style is to ask a lot of questions. I do something with most, if not all, of the answers, but it might be something that happens in my brain and not in the thread. I do use some answers in thread, but I don't always go HEY GUYS REMEMBER THAT QUESTION THAT I POSTED IN POST X, I AM GOING TO USE IT NOW.
In this game, it is page 8 and I think it is perfectly valid to be in a questioning stage right now. However, I have also laid down a serious vote and given other reads, so I think it's really unfair to say that I'm trying to avoid committing to reads.
I feel the need to note that the last time you harped on me about questions, you were scum and I was town (in Dexter mafia). That is not to say you are scum here because of that, but it does set a precedent. In this game, I have a townread on you, but it is not particularly strong.
sr wrote:Amrun, what game is this where Vi faked a PR? I'm interested. We can see why you think that is invaild because of Juls, but I just don't agree. I would think townVP would want to figure out the depths of the PR rather than curtail all discussion around it. Post 63 does indirectly suggest that VP believes Vi because he is SO WORRIED about a mod kill. Which I personally think is BS. I just don't know why he would be willing to let someone like Vi off so lightly.
~Sotty
Your disagreement stems from a meta thing about VPB. You have a lot more experience with him than me. I don't think it's a big issue.
Here's the game:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... =3&t=17567:-
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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I also get townish vibes from ace... Mostly because his play is different than whan I played with him as scumbuddies. Not something to hang any hats on, but I see very little to jump all over, either.
The counterwagon comment was pretty bad, though.-
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Riggs, let me get this straight... You think the scumteam is ace, crab canon, and sottyrulez?
Ace, so you're saying you think the pro town thing to do is to say "this wagon is bad" with zero reasoning whatsoever?-
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FISHY WE MEET AGAIN
Sadly, this time we cannot both be separate non town entities that pretend to profess town reads on each other, because I am actually town. Good times, good times.-
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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Instead, you could just read and find who YOU think is scum and vote for that person.-
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If sotty and crab both turn up town (as I think they are), I think focusing on the apparent 1 v 1 is a scum point for fishy. Scum loooooove false 1 v 1.-
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In post 382, ace5993 wrote:Vi translation (to the best of my ability, correct me if I misinterpret anything) wrote:
220 - Votes ace because he thinks ace is slandering the CrabCanon wagon in a bad way. Also he believes CrabCanon vs. sotty is looking like an unproductive slap-fight.
253 - Concerned that CrabCanon said ace's name when he meant 4nxi3ty's name, I'm guessing the reasoning is that CrabCanon allegedly had ace's name in his head because Vi think's they're scum-buddies. More concern about ace's defense of CrabCanon.
376 - Says that the main reason he's voting aceisdue to CrabCanon - ace relationship.
I really don't like Shift's weak jump to a policy lynch when sotty is at L-2, why do you think springlullaby is a better choice than sotty right now? Here's a hint, we aren't policy lynching today (although springlullaby isn't a bad choice for other reasons). Put up a genuine case on someone or get back on sotty.
This is a town post.-
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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Okay, it's obvious no one will lynch Junpei with me today.
VOTE: springlullaby
A lurker lynch is lame, but I don't like EITHER the sottyrulez or ace wagons.
If forced to choose closer to deadline, I will choose to vote sotty over ace.
Vi, why do VIs sheep your post restrictions? lol-
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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I just think that post of Ace's displays pro-town reasoning to back up my lolgut.
I just don't think he's scum.-
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In post 405, ace5993 wrote:You know what I'm willing to see where this wagon goes,Unvote, Vote: springlullaby. The timing of Shift's vote still leaves a bad taste in my mouth but I don't think it has any bearing on springlullaby's alignment and this game has been in a stall.
In no way does this mean we should be forgetting about sotty.
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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So, spring, you really, truly think that your vote is a good one - at 3 days away from deadline.
Yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh NO.
Also, my position has switched; I would rather lynch ace over sotty.
Springlullaby just became not-a-lurker-lynch, though.-
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In post 195, Amrun wrote:In post 85, Amrun wrote:Why does Junpei look all right to you?No follow up.I don't think this question was ever answered, actually. SL, please to be answering this.
And, spring, you want me to answer this question?
SERIOUSLY?
Die now.-
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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I commented on the post with a frowny face. It kind of singlehandedly erased my good feelings, in combination with one other post that I commented on before. One terribad post can be explained away, but...
Do not misunderstand. He is not a high suspect of mine. I think he's more likely town, actually, but my townread on him has decreased to just barely leaning town. My townread on sottyrulez surpasses it.
I still don't think ace is the optimal lynch. My optimal lynch is being ignored.-
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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Are you capable of discerning where my vote is?-
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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I can't bring myself to re-explain the entire thread to you.
You're very wrong. I'll just leave it at that for now. My patience is expended.-
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Junpei, springlullaby, Shift, fishy all on the scummy side of the scale in varying degrees. ALL previously noted. Still null on anxiety.-
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SL, you said "same question back at you" earlier and that is the only question I could think of.
I do like your catchup content, though you had to be dragged into it.
VOTE: ace
Junpei's current posting is just the most fabricated crap.
But nobody will wagon him with me for some reason. Ugh.-
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Vi, I'm looking at wagon viability, quite obviously. I've pushed Junpei since early on and never got a wagon on him, let alone t-3.
BUT skimming through, perhaps Shift is more viable.
I'MMA TRY IT
VOTE: Shift-
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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In post 475, Crab Canon wrote:@amrun - why do you think shift is more viable than junpei?
Maybe because I pushed Junpei for like 15 pages and not one person ever joined me, to my recollection?
That being said, if Junpei DOES have viability, I am ALL FOR IT. So far, I think me and you are the only ones willing to vote for him.
Sotty, would you vote Junpei? You mentioned liking my post/vote on him some time ago.-
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Why are you calling yourself scum, gnr? I'm confused.-
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In post 543, Vi wrote:*scowls*
Your biggest beef with SL seems to be centered on the (admittedly strange) "reverse chainsaw defense" thing.
Perhaps I'm missing something, but that seems to only be a big issue if GNR is scum with sl, and gnr is supposedly masons with you.-
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WOW and you're not voting for ace... Fail.-
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ace, you need to vote for sl....
UGH
VOTE: springlullaby-
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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Junpei, scum can't buddy each other?
I was v/la and need to catch up on this thread.
I want to comment that sottyrulez is a really weird scumkill because several people suspected them. It's just... strange. I want to note their suspicions for possible threatkills. (This is a note to myself for to-do-list for this game.) Off of the top of my head, I recall the supposed 1v1 with Crab Canon, but there is no way CC-scum would do something so obvious and stupid. Also CC is town.-
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In post 628, saulres wrote:In post 626, Amrun wrote:CC is town
Why? CC has gone up on my scumdar due to sotty's flip, I just haven't had time to review his ISO.
I said it in a lot more detail before, but they had no reason to push Vi as town and they did anyway.-
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In post 633, Vi wrote:
*sniffs post*In post 554, Fishythefish wrote:Ohhhh the timer changes! Clever.
Well, what an exciting votecount. I'll try hard to get some access nearer deadline, but this is probably my last post.
*moves away from fishy smell*
Agree with this.-
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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Yeah, but at the time, you were voting for springlullaby, who is now confirmed town. Most of the progression of that wagon has gems from you like this:
In post 419, Fishythefish wrote:Wow. Springlullaby just gained a 4 vote wagon in just over a page, for lurking. She has been lurking all game. This feels very much like a distraction from either ace or sotty.
Your turnaround to voting SL didn't happen in a way that reads as organic to me.-
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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Why are we stepping on my tail? I don't get it.-
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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You think I'M not participating, Vi? People have prods out, including your #1 suspect, and I'M not participating?
I don't understand.-
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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Vi, I think you're the one not participating. I have NO IDEA what is going on in your mind right now.
GNR's response seems kind of reasonable, and ace's new waffling on "possible scenarios" is extremely unhelpful.
It's left to you to sort out the situation, but instead you wiggle one hand.-
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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In post 698, ace5993 wrote:Vi didn't explicitly state this but I believe his theory is that sotty was vigged and scum with GNR shot him, hence only one kill.
Can you explain this a little further?
At this point, GNR seems like a fairly solid wagon.
I'd still be happy to see Junpei strung up, though I'm having trouble determining if his theory is something he believes in SO STRONGLY that it could conceivably come from town. It seems more like a crutch to not contribute anything useful, to me.-
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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In post 702, ace5993 wrote:@Amrun - Obviously if he believes GNR to be a BP and scum, there must be a non-scum killing source. Where's the most obvious place for a scumkill that would be blocked? Yeah.
Uh, there's a glaring flaw here.
If GNR were scum, he would advise his scumteam not to shoot the player he knows to be bp...-
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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In post 704, Amrun wrote:In post 702, ace5993 wrote:@Amrun - Obviously if he believes GNR to be a BP and scum, there must be a non-scum killing source. Where's the most obvious place for a scumkill that would be blocked? Yeah.
Uh, there's a glaring flaw here.
If GNR were scum, he would advise his scumteam not to shoot the player he knows to be bp...-
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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You think GNR-scum, knowing you are bp, shot you at night?
That's really what you think, Vi?-
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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I think Penn and Teller make perfect sense as a neighborhood, so I don't really care, tbh.-
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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