Gotta check who is last on my will but I have to ask. DDD, why ask?
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Lastsurvivor, I can do the whole quote wall thing when I get to a computer, but from a phone, a lot of my reasoning is going to look very general. Id say check my recent meta but I crashed the site back to november to erase it just so you couldn't see it.3-2 as scum and 5-8 as town
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Lastsurvivor, anything you'll find before november was before I spent time away from the site. I was living with my parents then, so I had access to a computer every day and rarely posted from my phone. Therefore, the games before the crash won't show you a lot of phone posts from me.
Also, I'm trying to decide whether fish is still scummier than malee or not. They are still my top two picks. DDD is a third choice, but I'm not at all confident on that. His nacho case doesn't seem right. Is nacho generally a player who looks at every detail or is what DDD calls "cruise control" just Nacho's style? Because while I remember nacho being someone who knows what he's talking about, I don't feel like I remember him being the voice of the town or anything. At least not on Day 1.3-2 as scum and 5-8 as town
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Last, go ahead and check it but don't expect many similarities. And I don't think I'm fence sitting on those reads with my vote on fish, calling malee almost as scummy, and clearly specifically saying DDD is third scummiest.
Nacho, there was a newb game and I think there may have been one other. Not completely sure. It's been a while.
Last, nothing you are saying about that post makes any sense. Of course I'm going to point out DDD when it catches my attention. If I catch a scum vibe and let it go, id hate to ignore it all game, see him win as scum, and come back like "yeah, he looked scummy. I just never said so". And what do you see as fence sitting in there at all. I felt I was pretty clear with all of it.3-2 as scum and 5-8 as town
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Like I said, when I get to a computer, I can do the whole quote wall thing and make a fish case if you want me too. Hell, I'll even go over what I think of malee (although the vote from fish and your comment about malee playing similarly as town has me backing off of that a bit). While im at it, maybe I'll do everyone. But that could be a day, a week, or a month. I'm in an apartment with no internet, so who knows. I gave my reasoning. Unfortunately, without the quotes and further explanation, it probably won't convince too many people that fish is scum.
And no, I didn't say "reaching" was scummy about malee. A little reaching is necessary in the beginning of the game just to get things started. Meh, maybe we're looking at the same post and disliking it for different reasons.the more I try to explain this, the more I actually find myself agreeing with whoever it was that said the reaching thing. I think it's just the word reaching that threw me off.3-2 as scum and 5-8 as town
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Last, on fish it was a vibe I got from the tone of his posts that looked like scum to me. Let me pull up his ISO and see if I can figure it out:
-ISO 0. Telling everyone at game start to think about wills seems unneccesary and kind of like he's trying to appear helpful, but at that stage really doesn't help anything.
-ISO 1. When asked about the above, he tries to say people will forget if he doesn't remind anyone. A reminder on Page 1 though? Nah, he just wants to appear useful town. The reaction to being questioned about it as well as the will reveal thing are what I saw as "on edge". He seemed pretty defensive for someone not really being pressured or anything.
Everything after that can be summarized as "rhinox is scum, never mind. Bike isn't useful so here's a vote but no one cares so I'm gonna vote malee and just kind of agree with what everyone is saying there."
Malee didn't seem genuine with the over reaction to one thing (nacho) and lack of much else.
On DDD, I honestly don't feel I elaborated a ton. More of that section of the post was me trying to recall Nacho's style.3-2 as scum and 5-8 as town
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if you were forced to commit to it right now, what would be your take on the interactions between rhinox and hip. Do you think rhinox is scum? Buddies with hip? One scum but not the other? I'm a bit confused because that's the second post where you're all "rhinox this, but...".3-2 as scum and 5-8 as town
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Rhinox, I disagree about malee where you say scum wouldn't say oops and unvote. If they realize something is making them look bad, they could definitely back off of it.
And by interactions, I mostly meant the post where he voted you. Vince's take on that threw me off a little.3-2 as scum and 5-8 as town
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Rhinox, not necessarily. When scum lay down a vote, regardless of the intent behind it, and they are pressured for the vote, it is very common for them to go "oh shit, you're right. Silly me, unvote". As for scum making cases sound more logical, it depends oon the player. Some will do exactly what you are talking about. Some have trouble finding anything to talk about because they find it hard to "scumhunt" when they already know who is scum it all depends on the player. I think this has potential to become too much of a theory discussion though.
Is anyone else unimpressed with bike's "reads"?
Fish, scummy things, not just "things". Otherwise my vote would probably have to be considered random and I don't random vote.3-2 as scum and 5-8 as town
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[Vince, I was more concerned with the fact that if he called half of those names either town or scum in his next post, it wouldn't be a contradiction.
Fish, in detail, what made you change your mind about rhinox? And about malee, while people don't buy bandwagoning as a scumtell these days, it's still a valid scum tendency in my experience.3-2 as scum and 5-8 as town
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unvote.
Fish's response to bandwagoning is a town response. I threw out a buzzword to see what he'd say. I think if he was scum, he'd deny bandwagoning and say he has his own case that had nothing to do with everyone elses and malee was scummy whether everyone agreed or not. Instead, he said town wagon too and justified his reasoning for sheeping a case he agreed with. It looks really genuine.
As for a new vote, I want the kind of look at the game that I can only get from a computer, so I'm gonna try to get my girlfriend's laptop and bring it to Barnes N Noble today and look over the game.3-2 as scum and 5-8 as town
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Ok, I'm gonna do a few ISOs and see what I can get out of them.
First, Malee for two reasons. She looked like scum to me and then a massive wagon built up.
ISO 1 and 2: So there's the attack on Nacho for skimming. That's what caught me off guard. Admittedly, it was early in the day so I was looking for anything. Then again, it seems she massively over reaction. She voted (which is fine) and said he didn't care about the game. In ISO 2, she bolds and caps a "warning" not to skim.
ISO 4: She brings up Nacho's "vote" on Vincent (for the first time). Turns out the "vote" was a one-liner about Vince not voting.
ISO 6: Unvotes because Nacho didn't vote Vince. Wasn't Malee's initial vote for skimming? Actually, where the hell did she even get the impression that Nacho was skimming. I don't know, it looks to me like Malee is just set on voting Nacho and when it doesn't work, she plays the confusion card to back off of it.
ISO 7: Still feels Nacho skimmed even without the Vince vote. So why did Malee unvote if skimming is scummy to her?
ISO 8: Flakes. Fuck you.
Overall: I still feel Malee is scum. Her Nacho case reeks of being fake and she did nothing but tunnel on it. I think she was trying to give the impression of scum hunting.
Next up is funky. He seems to be under the radar, yet called scum a lot. It also looks like a wagon could be brewing on him. I want to make sure I'm satisfied with an opinion on him.
ISO 0,1,2: Irrelevant. I don't think he was playing the game up to this point.
ISO 4: These are the "reads" I mentioned having a problem with before. Look at them. According to bike, Vince is "Overly town", "[probably] vanilla town", and "at least for now". So he sees play that looks very town, decides to openly guess that he isn't a power role, and throw in the disclaimer at the end that it could change. Read on 4n is "no information". hip "has contributed" but bike "can't get a read". So he has three town reads (Last, Rhinox, and Kort). And Kort is somehow "proven town". The way I see these reads is he won't commit to reads on some players (why even list them? Why not list other players who may or may not be null?) and even his reads have no real reasons. The closest to reasoning he gets is on Last, because "scum wouldn't post like that". He calls Nacho scum and "can't see any other possibility, yet in....
ISO 5: he says Nacho provided a "decent explanation". So we're back to no scum reads and three unexplained town reads.
Overall: Really not liking Bike.
I also want to look at Alice. It looks like another potential wagon, but I haven't really seen this one as scummy. I'll see what comes up in the ISO.
ISO 1: Legitimate questions, but could be asked regardless of alignment.
ISO 3: Malee case. I don't think these two could be scum together, so if one flips scum, I probably won't go after the other.
ISO 5: Says Last is scummier if Malee flips scum. I think this shows a genuine belief that Malee is scum.
Overall: Yeah, Alice is town.
Vote Bikebecause I don't feel like putting a player who can't claim at L-1. This does NOT mean that when someone replaces Malee, everyone unvotes because "HURHURHUR REPLACEMENT". Everyone knows replacing in isn't a towntell, yet I see it treated as one way too much. But yeah, Bike or Malee would be a good lynch. Both seem to be fake scumhunting.
Also, I'm adjusting my will and would suggest that everyone else who hasn't since confirmations do the same now that we are in the stage of the game where reads should exist on most players3-2 as scum and 5-8 as town
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Last, correct. I was judging by the vote count where malee had five votes. But at this point I don't really care whether malee or bike gets lynched. Both are pretty scummy.
As for hip, I don't have a strong opinion one way or the other. Definitely not obvtown or anything, but not at the top of my scum list either.3-2 as scum and 5-8 as town
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Just because I have some free time and laptop access (both of which are rarities for me) and it seemed to help the first time, I'm going to do a few more ISOs.
First up is hip, mostly due to the fact that I was only able to answer "what does everyone think of hip" with a big fat null.
ISO 1: The Rhinox vote. He seems to admit it's weak, but early in the game, that's fine.
ISO 3: Votes me, calling me sloppy and apathetic (no examples). Says he's tempted to vote Rhinox, who he is already voting.
ISO 4: Explains his Rhinox reasoning to Nacho. Seems legit.
ISO 7: Asks about DDD, who he seems to see as more lurky than normal. Revotes Rhinox. Seems mostly fine to me, but at this point it seems he has no strong reads unless the Rhinox thing is a bigger deal to him than it was originally.
ISO 9: "forgives" DDD because he didn't disappear until after RVS. This threw me off a little. If being lurky is scummy, shouldn't the fact that he was active in RVS prove the point more rather than less? (though I believe DDD said he was busy watching the NCAA tournament, which is understandable. I'd be doing the same if not for work).
ISO 12: The Rhinox case has become "gut", but he is "pretty convinced".
Overall: Ya' know, while I don't think he's playing a great game, I am actually leaning slight town on hip. The only suspicion he's shown is Rhinox (weak case, parked vote), me (changed his mind), and DDD (hasn't even directly called him scummy). I'd like to hear some of hip's reads, particularly scum reads. I really don't see scum intent in his posts though.
Next, I kind of want to look at 4n. I haven't really seen a whole lot that's stood out about him, but for some reason, my gut is leaning towards him possibly being scum. So let's take a look.
ISO 0: Votes fish for "stating the obvious" regarding updated wills. I like this because the same thing stood out to me.
ISO 1: Accepts fish's explanation, but leaves the vote. Could he have forgotten to unvote? Or maybe he saw nothing to vote on?
ISO 2: Votes Last in a vote-only post.
ISO 3: Votes Malee for being "jumpy". Looks like a wagon hop to me. Honestly, I see scum voting town here. Maybe I'm wrong on Malee. Also, what was the Last vote all about?
ISO 7: Answers "what do you think of DDD" with a wishy washy maybe scum maybe town answer. I don't think he's done anything to try to clarify the read either. What really gets me is the use of an exclamation point in "I could easily see scum!" and then where I expect an explanation and maybe mini-case, it starts to turn into maybe he's town, let's wait and see.
ISO 8: This is a pretty bad answer to Rhinox's question about whether Malee's actions make sense as scum.
ISO 9: Another pot-shot like the one on DDD, this time at Rhinox. Says he is reactive rather than proactive. It's a negative, maybe scum, kind of point to make, but nothing to pursue. It seems like he's leaving these trails that he can point back to and say "see, they gave me bad vibes here".
ISO 11: Unvotes Malee for replacement. If 4n was wagon-hopping scum, this is a good move because for whatever reason nobody ever lynches someone who replaces out while being wagoned. Shows a strong preference for Alicescum rather than Bikescum. If my reads on the two are correct, this makes sense for 4nScum because Bike would be his scumbuddy.
Overall: Holy fuck, 4n is scum. Assuming I'm right, Malee is town because there is no way they are buddies. Bike and 4n are definitely buddies though. If I was a dayvig, I'd be shooting 4n in this post and voting Bike because they both need to die Day 1.
That's gonna have to be all for now.
Just an update on my scum reads:
-Bike is scum and needs to be today's lynch
-4n is scum and I'll be voting him out of the gate tomorrow when Bike flips scum.
-Malee is town just because 4n is scum and they aren't scum together. If I'm wrong on 4n, Malee can still be scum, but I'm confident enough to drop the Malee suspicion for now. (Whoever told me to pick between Bike and Malee should be happy lol)
-I was pretty sold on Fishscum earlier, but I've changed my mind. A few of his posts have tweaked my gut since, but I'm wondering if his style just seems scummy to me.
-I mentioned a slight DDD suspicion earlier. It's still exactly that. A slight suspicion.
-Everyone else is either a town read or nothing has stood out. I'm honestly holding back a little on posting my strongest town reads because of the will mechanic. If scum can easily guess who is near the top of a will, it makes it easy for them to decide on their kill.3-2 as scum and 5-8 as town
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Moan, the fish vote without immediate explanation can be described as an extremely early game vote. I tend to make a vote that isn't immediately clear whether it's random or not (it never is) and then bring it back up later hoping to draw attention to it. As for alice unvoting malee, I had a scum read on malee based on her posting. The only way I see her as town is if I am right on 4n/bike, which I'm pretty confident in, but I'm usually able to accept that my reads aren't always going to be 100%. I'm sure enough that I strongly prefer bike as a lynch, but I wasn't so sure before ISOing 4n.
On a side note, id laugh if rhinox and hip were scum together fake arguing. I don't think they are. I just think it would be funny.3-2 as scum and 5-8 as town
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Moaner, how would you expect 4n to play as scum? I realize it's a hard question to answer, but giving someone a pass for "this is just how they play" isn't the right way to handle a player whose style you don't care for. Obviously, you know he isn't town in every game he plays, so it might help to try and figure out what to look for that might be different in his town games than scum games.3-2 as scum and 5-8 as town
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Unexpected indefinite V/LA. Phone was accidently slashed by a ForeverSharp knife and is seeing extremely limited action (as in I'm not bringing it with me to work) until I can have it taken care of. Hopefully, this will be tomorrow. If not, I will make an effort to get 30 minutes or so of laptop access every day for this game and my fantasy basketball playoffs.3-2 as scum and 5-8 as town
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Ok back guys.
So looks like all I missed is a bunch of people wagoning alice, including bike, but some people still prefer an alice lynch to a bike one.
Vinces replacement, why did you feel the need to state your wishy washy unhapiness with a bike lynch, but no opinion on alice who actually has more votes?
And just in case it's not as obvious as I feel it is, I still see alicetown and bikescum.
*also, everyone make sure you are happy with your will before the night. Deadline is only a few days away.*3-2 as scum and 5-8 as town
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I don't understand why bike being lynched doesn't give us information if he flips town. What information are we missing out on exactly? Anyone with that opinion, feel free to answer.
Rhinox, I'm pretty sure it is going to come down to those three players. So I'm wondering where those voting elsewhere stand. I'll check your ISO, but if your opinion has already been stated, it should have just made it easier for you to answer.3-2 as scum and 5-8 as town
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On Macro's replacing in...
There's a few ways to look at some things. The first is the amount of content. I agree with Rhinox that either scum or town can come in and post wall after wall after wall as soon as they replace in and everyone goes "OMGTOWN!" or my personal favorite "well the first guy was scummy but the replacement looks town so here's my unvote". However, if you look at quality over quantity, Macro's reads and opinions seem pretty genuine.
The other thing is the vote on Last. For pure survivalism, Rhinox is right (again) that it does no good. A vote on Bike would make the competing wagons closer. However, for purposes of looking town, you don't want to wagon hop, so having your own new opinion helps. The vote on DDD afterwards actually seems like such a blatant "lynch this guy, not me" that it's weird not to just vote Bike. To me, it's actually a sign of wanting to lynch a scum read rather than just someone with a lot of votes. The only way this doesn't make sense is if Macro and Bike are scum together, which I haven't ruled out.
Honestly, my read on Macro's slot has wavered quite a bit. Some of the play just looks incredibly scummy, but then there seems to be a town explanation that fits all of it. I currently have a slight town read on the slot. However, it's not a strong read at all.
Either way, it looks like Macro is the only player with the support for a lynch right now and it's time for him to claim.3-2 as scum and 5-8 as town
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Nacho, I haven't seen anything scummy from Last.
Last, yes, Macro's VT claim is obviously a town tell. He claimed non-VT to avoid a lynch, but wouldn't claim an actual power role because he didn't want a counterclaim. Scum in that spot would probably claim a specific power role to either draw a counter and NK a power role or get no counter and "confirm" themselves as town.3-2 as scum and 5-8 as town
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Vote 4n
Not a lot has changed since Day 1. Lastlynch was as terrible as it was before it happened. Macrolynch is almost as bad. DDD, DCL, and 4n are still the scums.
And for those who missed it the first time, here's why I'm voting 4n:
In post 220, Sleepless Assassin wrote:Just because I have some free time and laptop access (both of which are rarities for me) and it seemed to help the first time, I'm going to do a few more ISOs.
<chop, irrelevant hip ISO>
Next, I kind of want to look at 4n. I haven't really seen a whole lot that's stood out about him, but for some reason, my gut is leaning towards him possibly being scum. So let's take a look.
ISO 0: Votes fish for "stating the obvious" regarding updated wills. I like this because the same thing stood out to me.
ISO 1: Accepts fish's explanation, but leaves the vote. Could he have forgotten to unvote? Or maybe he saw nothing to vote on?
ISO 2: Votes Last in a vote-only post.
ISO 3: Votes Malee for being "jumpy". Looks like a wagon hop to me. Honestly, I see scum voting town here. Maybe I'm wrong on Malee. Also, what was the Last vote all about?
ISO 7: Answers "what do you think of DDD" with a wishy washy maybe scum maybe town answer. I don't think he's done anything to try to clarify the read either. What really gets me is the use of an exclamation point in "I could easily see scum!" and then where I expect an explanation and maybe mini-case, it starts to turn into maybe he's town, let's wait and see.
ISO 8: This is a pretty bad answer to Rhinox's question about whether Malee's actions make sense as scum.
ISO 9: Another pot-shot like the one on DDD, this time at Rhinox. Says he is reactive rather than proactive. It's a negative, maybe scum, kind of point to make, but nothing to pursue. It seems like he's leaving these trails that he can point back to and say "see, they gave me bad vibes here".
ISO 11: Unvotes Malee for replacement. If 4n was wagon-hopping scum, this is a good move because for whatever reason nobody ever lynches someone who replaces out while being wagoned. Shows a strong preference for Alicescum rather than Bikescum. If my reads on the two are correct, this makes sense for 4nScum because Bike would be his scumbuddy.
Overall: Holy fuck, 4n is scum. Assuming I'm right, Malee is town because there is no way they are buddies. Bike and 4n are definitely buddies though. If I was a dayvig, I'd be shooting 4n in this post and voting Bike because they both need to die Day 1.
That's gonna have to be all for now.
<chop, irrelevant overall reads portion of post>3-2 as scum and 5-8 as town
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4n wrote:is there scum motivation in this post?
Not every post that scum makes has scum motivation. I was simply noting the vote to see where it went. Remember, it was an ISO read so everything that stood out was mentioned. As for my conclusion on the Last vote, I can't say I really came up with one in that specific ISO, hence the question about it. You immediately hopped on to Malee after it.
The thing that gets me about Last is the fact that he was one of my strongest town reads. With him being dead, I have no problem sharing this. He was at the top of my will until he started being wagoned. I never understood the case against him. I have only seen one game where a Day 1 mislynch didn't include scum and if I'm right about you being scum, this stands out as evidence that one or more of your buddies were on the lynch with you:
4n wrote:it is too early for wagon analysis, you need at least one scumflip.
Of course, if you are town, the above quote means nothing.
4n wrote:At that stage in the game seeing someone with a jumpy(or paranoid) vibe is as good to go off of as anything else. A wagonhop from fishy to malee? eh your a little off base there. If I think someone is scummy the amount votes on that person won't deter from joining a wagon in most circumstances.
This may be true, but I strongly believe scum are more prone to bandwagoning even if it's not a generally accepted tell anymore.
4n wrote: I don't think being unsure about someone's alignment at the very early stages in the game is wish-washy.
4n wrote:it is a different way of saying scumDDD or 'DDD's-scumplay'
Actually, I didn't say you were unsure and neither did you. And if you had a scum read, why didn't it come up until the question about him. And "could easily see" doesn't really seem the same as "scumDDD" to me. Your view on DDD looks like someone who was asked about his scumbuddy and gave an "OMG maybe he's scum. let's watch out for him" kind of answer. Honestly though, when I go back to your ISO and ctrl+f "DDD" (which I just did to see if it strengthened this point), your interactions don't look like scum on scum interactions.
4n wrote:meh I don't mind using pot-shots for pressure. Me leaving trails would only be valid if rhinox flipped scum and I went "see, I knew he was scum give me towncred", neither of those things have happened though.
That's not my issue with the pot-shots. It's more that if... let me give an example. Let's say we get near deadline and we only have one major wagon and the guy claims a power role and we all go "oh shit, that makes sense. Who the fuck do we lynch now?" Well, obviously we end up with a rushed wagon and, for sake of example, assume we get the lynch off. Now this random "how the fuck did they get lynched" person flips town. Next day, everyone is flipping out and saying scum had to have pushed the lynch through. If you hopped the wagon and people didn't like your vote, you can say "nooo, see? I called them scum back there". And don't say "OMG that like never happens!" because it's one of many examples.
Granted, pot shots like that are only a big deal if you do it to most of the players in the game and not just a couple, but that's why I pointed out a later one and not the first. I saw a trend.
4n wrote:it is also a good move for town since a replacement can take some time and a replacement might shed new light on a slot. bike hasn't flipped so basing my lynch on being scumbuddies with him makes for weak scumhunting.
I tend to disagree with most people when it comes to replacements. I just don't like it when someone's read changes entirely on a replaced player. They have the exact same Role PM, so I don't see how you can have a scum read on one and a town read on the other. This is probably a theory argument that isn't completely relevant here though.
As for the bike connection, I'm not basing the vote on that. I'm just noting it to try and understand some connections later on. I tend to leave myself some things to look back on, maybe because I don't take notes for games and that's just my version of it. Either way, it's not really important unless you are trying to argue that "no, bike isn't my scumbuddy. X and Y are!", in which case, feel free.
Basically, my case isn't really one major thing that stands out. It's just the large number of small things which is probably what lead to my vibe with nothing standing out before I ISO'd.
~Quote tag cleaned up3-2 as scum and 5-8 as town
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In post 666, Alicewondering wrote:@Sleepless AssassinWhy is DCL scum? I actually think scum would be very unlikely to push a lynch on a townie so hard.
Uhhhhh.
I'm not sure how many games you've played, but almost ALL of the ones I've been in have had a scum push a mislynch pretty hard.
But to answer your question:
SA wrote:Next up is funky. He seems to be under the radar, yet called scum a lot. It also looks like a wagon could be brewing on him. I want to make sure I'm satisfied with an opinion on him.
ISO 0,1,2: Irrelevant. I don't think he was playing the game up to this point.
ISO 4: These are the "reads" I mentioned having a problem with before. Look at them. According to bike, Vince is "Overly town", "[probably] vanilla town", and "at least for now". So he sees play that looks very town, decides to openly guess that he isn't a power role, and throw in the disclaimer at the end that it could change. Read on 4n is "no information". hip "has contributed" but bike "can't get a read". So he has three town reads (Last, Rhinox, and Kort). And Kort is somehow "proven town". The way I see these reads is he won't commit to reads on some players (why even list them? Why not list other players who may or may not be null?) and even his reads have no real reasons. The closest to reasoning he gets is on Last, because "scum wouldn't post like that". He calls Nacho scum and "can't see any other possibility, yet in....
ISO 5: he says Nacho provided a "decent explanation". So we're back to no scum reads and three unexplained town reads.
Overall: Really not liking Bike.
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DDD wrote:It’s a straight damage control move; attempting to make a player’s slot seem more town by excusing their prior play due to incompetence. Town’s first instincts upon replacing in are “who are scum?”; scum’s first instinct is “protect myself”.
I feel like anyone with a wagon on them is going to want to protect themself.3-2 as scum and 5-8 as town
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In post 716, Alicewondering wrote:SA, so your scumread on DCL is due to his predecessor? What do you think of DCL's play?
Yes, I got my scum read on the slot when Bike was still in the game. As far as DCL, his play looks pretty solid. Obviously, the two share a Role PM though.
Void, can you tell me why Macro's claim makes sense for scum? Why would scum claim a power role and then instead of just claiming an actual power role or sticking to "town doesn't need to know as much as scum does", he just goes "aw shucks, I'm just a plain old townie"? The only intent I can personally think of is fear of outing an actual power role. Claiming vanilla is basically resigning to a lynch. Scum have more reason to keep fighting at that point than town.
DCL wrote:Voided was on the wagon, macro appeared to be sucking up to him to get voided to get off the wagon.
^Arguments like this are part of the reason the macro case looks like such garbage right now. If someone was going to "suck up" to someone voting them, why would they choose voided? Why not one of the "voice of reason" kind of players? Someone with persuasive abilities who everyone thinks is town. Or maybe multiple players. All I know is if I saw (and I'm taking the list from the five he mentioned, not the wagons, because it's the players that stand out to him and means more in this context) Kortul/hiplop/voided/debonair/DCL voting me and was going to try buddying to shake them off the wagon, my first thought wouldn't be "Oh shit, gotta get voided off that wagon".3-2 as scum and 5-8 as town
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Like. Ok, I saw Malee as scummy and all and haven't seen rainbows flying out the ass of anyone in the slot as far as towniness but come on guys.
Seriously, someone give a bullet point case and then read it. Look at how ridiculous it looks. If you don't think it does, post it. Hell, post it anyway. I could use the entertainment.
Just from the post I just made, I see that we see him claiming vanilla instead of fighting his lynch with a strong fake claim as a scum tell, which shows admitted defeat and then the same guy is apparently desperate to shake void, yes void of all people, off his wagon to save himself.
Are you guys reading the shit you spew?
Let's string up the real scum 4n and call it a day.
Seriously...3-2 as scum and 5-8 as town
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DDD, but if that's the case, why did he claim to be a power role in the first place? If vanilla is such a safe claim for scum to make, why did he feel the need to claim to be a power role first? The fact that he didnt do so defeats your point because macro didn't see vanilla as such a safe claim to make, yet when pressured more, he resigned and claimed vanilla. As scum, I'm sure he'd continue to make something up. His vanilla claim had more of an "ok, you got me. Here's the truth" tone to it.
Void, I'll admit it's not really fresh in my mind and id have to go back and read it again, but I don't remember having the impression that you were leading the wagon.
Macro, if you have a strong town read on 4n and feel he will be lynched without your "town case", feel free. However, I'm the only one voting him so I don't see the point.
Everyone voting macro, read his case on DCL. Don't look at the quality of the case or even whether you agree with it or not. Look at the intent and pick apart macro's brain. It is very obvious that he is convinced part way through the post that he has found scum and presented a great case on why. Scum wouldn't have to convince themselves because they'd know whether they are right ot wrong.3-2 as scum and 5-8 as town
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Void, no, scum can't truthfully claim VT.
DDD, then why wouldn't he claim a less common power role or something? Oh and by the way, unorthodox play also has a tendency to find the ropes. The more you elaborate on why he is scum, the stronger a town case I see.
4n, that is a very vague way to state your reads...3-2 as scum and 5-8 as town
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Macro, to answer your first question, I feel I've layed out my case. He responded and I responded back. No one else seems interested except for the fact that you have a town read on him. I'm leaving my vote there to basically say "I think he is scum and I'm not letting it go".
And your other question...honestly, your town case looks more like a case against him except that "scum would never be so obvious". Your first point is the same point I made with the same reasoning except you finish yours with "scum would provide reasoning". Really? How often are people voted for not providing enough reasoning? Next is that he went against your lynch. Well, it looked (or looks) inevidible that you will be lynched at some point. If I was scum and you were town, id want to distance myself from the mislynch. If you are scum, this point (and this discussion for that matter) is null.
The last part is a real gem.you call 4n town for not providing a lot of content, which scum would apparently never ever do because they'd get attacked. So he MUST be town, right? WRONG.
Listen. Scum do scummy things. Scumtells are, believe it or not, NOT town tells.3-2 as scum and 5-8 as town
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In post 774, 4nxi3ty wrote:SA wrote:The last part is a real gem.you call 4n town for not providing a lot of content,
I am deeply offended by this comment.
SA can you take the time to pressure other people as well? that way you don't squander all of D2 pushing a scumread that is town.
The content thing was actually macro's pooint, not mine.
And most of my reads from earlier still stand. Assuming there isn't a random push towards you, I'll probably vote DDD near deadline.
Looking at the vote count, it's weird that fish is V/LA til the 43rd.3-2 as scum and 5-8 as town
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