Mini 1370: Possessed Pastors in a Paranoid Parish: Who Won?!

[Eidolon]

4937

[Eidolon]

Vote: amrun

for covering your up your cute kitty

[Eidolon]

Oh, it's quite the contrary. A true pastor would see the great sacrilege in covering such a divinely sweet animal with human clothes and grammatically incorrect phrases!

[Eidolon]

Unvote. Vote: Seilkops.

I agree with Iceguy. Why the need for justification?

[Eidolon]

Unvote. Vote: Seilkops.

I agree with Iceguy. Why the need for justification?

So what's happening now, wouldn't happen!
I did that little disclaimer so I wouldn't have people accusing me of "not really RVS'ing"
I know it sounds stupid, but that actually just happened to me in a game, and took up a ton of time and effort to clear myself!
Since I voted for AP right after his post, I could already see the accusations of "You RVS'ed AP right after his post? What are you

real

reasons?"
And the answer will have to be:
I don't have any damn reasons, it's an RVS

If it was rvs, and you wanted to make a vote but were worried about voting for someone who had just posted, why not just RVS someone else rather than rvs with a justification? seems like an excuse made after the thought.

@ RC: should have voted you for being an atheist

@ AngryPidgeon: why should people wagon

your

gut read? Which post of his gave you this gut feeling?

[Eidolon]

You said you wanted people to wagon iceguy but your only reason is your gut. Everyone has gut reads so i see no reason to wagon on yours in particular. For instance, my gut is on zyrconium (possibly for the subtle buddying due to tierces vote.) I was trying to decipher if there was some sort of reasoning behind the gut, such as something particular that he said that seemed off to you, or if you just pulled it out of your ass expecting people to blindly follow you.

[Eidolon]

Tierce, you admit that Seilkop's RVS disclaimer was silly, and then say my vote was unnecessary. Why?

The justification you gave didn't happen until after i placed my vote. (i'd have no idea whether he was a likely lynch target or not)

I can see why you say his frustration seems townish but i'd still like to get a response from him in regards to my question because really, the line of reasoning he used in order to justify his action doesn't compute.

[Eidolon]

Amrun, not necessarily. Her explanation implied that what seilkops did was unusual. (which at such an early stage, is enough for a warranted vote, imo) she picked a light word choice to make her reasoning seem more legit without actually explaining why my vote was unnecessary, possibly.

Pedit: Tierce, why was my vote unnecessary? Was Seilkop's rvs disclaimer not possibly scum motivated?

[Eidolon]

unvote

angrypidgeon, why is asking you for more info on your read pointless? if it happens to be genuine and meaningful, it leads us towards a scummy player. and if you happened to bs it, could that not come through as well?

that being said, i don't think you are necessarily scummy atm, just trying to figure out your perspective.

what is with the Deawave/rc conversation? deas, why ask for thoughts without giving some yourself? rc, why stifle conversation?

zyrconium, current thoughts on angrypidgeon?

[Eidolon]

^ that's a wagon i could possibly get behind but for a different reason.

zyrconium, what did you find off about teirce's post 35?

[Eidolon]

This is why i had a slight suspicion of zyrconium: his reaction to teirce. i don't think there is anything inherently alignment affiliated or detrimental about voting without reason, and particularly in the early stages, it's effective for reaction testing. It seems like he was reaching for suspicions, and trying dissuade teirce's reaction testing.

His response hasn't had much to alleviate that. That being said, I think his response to the Apidg. thing was fence-sitting. I'd vote him right now but

@ Mod: I will be v/la over the weekend. I might be able to check in here and there as best i can.

I don't want to put up a vote until I'll be more active, but I would like to hear more from zyrc.

[Eidolon]

@Tierce:

1. why did i find seilkops scummy? Because he seemed to be over-justifying his behaviors which shows extra awareness of oneself, which seems scummy. In hind sight, it makes sense why he did this in that situation, so i unvoted him.

Angrypidgeon didn't vote me for my lack of justification on the seilkops vote (Which i did give when i said "why rv with justification?) He voted me because my question to him seemed useless.

2. why did i not react to you? Because I had no reaction. I wasn't worried about having to justify anything. And like i said before, you're vote didn't seem scummy. more interested in discerning the nature of some other posts that seemed scummy at the time.


I get the case on RC but until he gives us more, i still like a zyrc wagon better.

Vote:Zyrconium

[Eidolon]

Am I the only one that doesn't get the RC case?

Eh. I'm kind of half/half on it. I mean, it's slightly scummy that he's blatantly avoiding conversation,(i know his meta well, he's usually more aggressive as town) but on the other hand it's an easy case for scum to blow out of proportion.

I'd rather wait to hear his response before i make a decision on which it is.

[Eidolon]

Not seeing Zyrc case; don't even know if I disagreew or not, just???

just seems like his posts have been kinda thin/ stretching. fake hunting.

[Eidolon]

^ he also fencesits on the angrypidgeon issue so that he can continue to ask apidgeon questions that were obviously frustrating him.

I see scum motivation in that especially since i'm leaning town on angrypidgeon.

[Eidolon]

Except I am kind of confident, in a way.

I'm fairly certain that MoI is scum.

These two quotes don't work together.

Unvote, Vote: Quilford

this is more of a small mistake than a large one empking

expected from quilford

Unvote, VOte: Eidion

let's get this over with fast plz

why is your vote on me? why would you want to rush a lynch on me?

[Eidolon]

@Eid –

there is still a question waiting for you at Post 96. Why have you glossed over it when responding to others?

Post 125 is the epitome of ‘fence-sitting’ from Eid on RapidCanyon. For players who seem to be familiar with each other I’m not seeing familiarity in this post re: playstyle. Given his call of ‘fencesitting as scummy’ on Zyrc in Post 131 I’m tacking on Cognitive Dissonance to the list of issues I have with Eid’s slot.

Im must have missed that question. I didn't vote him because i wanted him to answer my question first. Once he did, and i didn't find it sufficient, i voted.

As for the fence sitting thing, I just wanted to get a response from him before i gave a more clear read on the situation. What he said up to that point was null because he seemed genuinely uninterested, and i know that that isn't due to his affiliation.

That being said he seems relatively town to null and i don't really like all the votes on him. Easy lynch option, same as mine.

Hiraki, you never gave your reasoning. why are you voting me?

[Eidolon]

@ MOI. Something that scum can slide their vote in without having to put much effort into. I think this is moreso the case with RC. "ohhh, he wants to be replaced, lets lynch him" I'm gonna read over how it played out in a minute.

@AngryPidgeon. How exactly is seeing both sides of the issue in and of itself a scumtell? I can see if it has some sort of MOTIVATION (like zyrcs response to you, to keep frustrating you.) But in this case i genuinely could see both sides and needed more from RC before I came to a decision.

[Eidolon]

And if you wanted a response from RC before passing judgment on him, why make post 125 in the first place?

He knows i can read him fairly well so it really makes no difference. I don't see how saying so would make him change what he would have said anyways. if he's scum trying to sound town me saying that i'm waiting on his response wouldn't change his inherent abilities as town or scum.

Out of the people on RC's wagon i'd say amrun is the most suspicious because he doesn't give much of a reason and hasn't been saying much to begin with. All his other posts have basically been questions here and there and him saying "post 86" as a reason to vote RC was his only opinion given so far.

[Eidolon]

because you really didn't see both sides of the issue

you found a scummy thing

and then you found reason for the scummy thing(which is still scummy) to be blown out of proportion

you're inadvertently avoiding a lynch for the reason that something is scummy about him

also there's a tad bit of fence-sitting there in anticipation of what's going to happen

but I'll let that slide as I usually fence-sit these days as town too

it's becoming a broken tell

but it already happened and i already made up my mind that he's null leaning town.

And i never really said that what he did was scummy. I said i can see how some might perceive it as scummy if they don't know him. But because i know he works equally hard as town and scum, and i know that he's stubborn in nature, none of what he said is affiliation correlated.

So where does that lead me? Townies might think they have caught a legit scum and find sufficient reasoning behind a wagon on him. Scum might take the opportunity to slide their vote in for an easy target while probably having poor reasoning.

[Eidolon]

it was irrelevant to him.

he didn't ask the question though. you did and i was answering it honestly.

[Eidolon]

Because i acquired votes from three people im null to town on fairly quickly. (Rapid, you, tierce.)

Also, i've talked quite a bit.

So, it seems like scum would want to keep the momentum up by picking out something random that i say and going with that.

Something seemed off about hirakis gambit, but i wont say it's fake reaction testing as it's just a gut feeling at this point.

Deaswave, he regurgitated AP's reason but also brings one up of his own. I'm kind of ehh on the reason he gave. I don't find what i did to be particularly scummy. I'd say if someone on my wagon is scum, i'd go with him over Hiraki because he tried harder to sound townie by giving a reason.

[Eidolon]

To MOI,

1. www.debate.org. We've played probably at least 15-20 games together over the past year.
2. it doesn't say he's scum, because he puts effort into being scum. he's too experienced at it to avoid a game because he's scum. It's null to me. He just seems disinterested.
3. Being stubborn is the reason why he keeps bringing up the rvs thing and focusing on that. He's one-tracked.

[Eidolon]

here:

yes

let me rush your lynch with my infinite amount of votes

Vote: Eidolon

Vote: Eidolon

Vote: Eidolon

Vote: Eidolon

that's l-1

time to claim

[Eidolon]

NO i did not take you seriously.

I said it seemed like some reaction test thing.

(maybe i don't know what you all mean by the term "gambit". I thought it meant a ploy or a plan.)

It might have been a joke. Whatever. it gave me a weird vibe at the time.

[Eidolon]

Rapidcanyon plays scummy as town. he's relatively easy to read though if you are familiar with him. i'll get you the links in a bit and you'll see what i mean.

i'm not LOOKING for reaction tests. I'm just saying that whatever the hell hiraki did, it seemed weird to me. like.. fakey.

[Eidolon]

His sn is F-16_Fighting_Falcon, mine is Lickdafoot.

Both mafia:

day 1: http://www.debate.org/forums/games/topic/15909/
day 2: http://www.debate.org/forums/games/topic/15925/
day 3: http://www.debate.org/forums/games/topic/15958/
day 4: http://www.debate.org/forums/games/topic/15980/
day 5: http://www.debate.org/forums/games/topic/15996/
endgame: http://www.debate.org/forums/games/topic/16024/

I'm mafia, F-16 is town

day 1: http://www.debate.org/forums/games/topic/18092/
day 2: http://www.debate.org/forums/games/topic/18104/
day 3: http://www.debate.org/forums/games/topic/18148/
day 4: http://www.debate.org/forums/games/topic/18199/
day 5: http://www.debate.org/forums/games/topic/18208/
endgame: http://www.debate.org/forums/games/topic/18221/

I'm town, f-16 is mafia

day 1: http://www.debate.org/forums/games/topic/18488/
day 2: http://www.debate.org/forums/games/topic/18545/
day 3: http://www.debate.org/forums/games/topic/18580/
day 4: http://www.debate.org/forums/games/topic/18634/
day 5: http://www.debate.org/forums/games/topic/18675/
day 6: http://www.debate.org/forums/games/topic/18712/
day 7: http://www.debate.org/forums/games/topic/18722/
day 8: http://www.debate.org/forums/games/topic/18750/
endgame: http://www.debate.org/forums/games/topic/18753/

[Eidolon]

@ Amrun. i didn't think it was "OMGZ SCUM" but it was slightly off and out of the ordinary for him in general. Point is, i truly believed at first that i wasn't sure on the situation but after thinking on it and seeing his response i came to a conclusion that he's closer to the town side.

And hiraki didn't do a good job at explaining it. Basically i said he was either scum or some on his wagon were scum. Hiraki said that i was blatantly twisting the situation. The only other option is that they are all town but that's against the odds now isn't it?

I don't think either of us are scum but i'm only about 75% on him right now. O.o

I think mafia is having a field day right now. Fuck.

PEDIT: rc wtf lol. how have i been implying you are town while saying i got a null leaning town read on you and pointing out which player on your wagon looked scummy?

[Eidolon]

rc i just picked random games. i don't care. pick whichever ones you want and post them. wtf?

[Eidolon]

it seemed out of the ordinary SO I WASN'T SURE but then i came to believe that he was more townish. I might have explained myself in different ways but my opinion had changed since explaining my past actions. It's reasonable to see why i worded things differently as i came to a different belief of the situation. i believed what i said to be true. it seemed off therefore slightly scummy but not enough for me to think he was scum. the minor inconsistencies are pulling a case out of nothing.

i think these are the easy lynches. don't rush on lynching rc. in every game on here people have called him super scummy but that's just his playstyle.

[Eidolon]

Tierce - Town
AngryPidgeon - Town jumping to conclusions

Hiraki - Null
IceGuy - Null
DeasWave - Null, jumping to conclusions
ICEninja - Null
seilkops - Null, jumping to conclusions
Empking - Null

MagnaofIllusion - Scum
Amrun - Scum

Eidolon - *Very smart scum*

if you think i'm scum i'm NOT playing very smart right now lol.

like i said i just picked the games at random as i was flipping through the pages. the first game where we were both scum, you were very active. i also tried bussing you that game. i would never be buddying up with you like they think i am here.

But anyways i'd like to hear more from the people who have just laid back on the sidelines since the pressure kicked up on me & you. i'll be more specific later.

[Eidolon]

correct. i think a lynch on him is the wrong way to go. he's playing exactly how he does as town.

[Eidolon]

i'll have more time to give an explanation on why later.

[Eidolon]

sigh.

[Eidolon]

I still don't like how amrun just pops in, posts a question or a vote and doesn't offer up much. is this his normal playstyle?

My other scumspect right now is deaswave, for post 95, the only real post of his.

I still like the zyrc wagon and he pretty much just stopped posting. want to hear more from him.

I can kinda get behind the iceguy thing but i have to reread it all. Same with the quilford/empking thing. Kinda meh about this game right now though I understand (some) points against me. Haven't been on my best game as far as explaining myself goes.

[Eidolon]

It moreso has to do with the content of the post but the lack of anything else is something that i noticed too. i can understand being busy and dealing with 2 different opinions. i explained the reasoning on the post somewhere, i'll have to find it tomorrow and explain more then.

i'll have limited access for the next week, only being able to post in the daytime.

[Eidolon]

@ Tierce: I would have posted a case for RC town but it seems uneccessary now that people have unvoted on him after his claim. I'll do it if it's needed. The other things you brought up were just an issue of time or being kind of blah about the way the game is progressing. Like i said, i have limited internet access.


Deaswave, I explained my reasoning on you in post 171. By process of elimination you seemed like the most likely scum on my wagon. You regurgitated AP's reasoning, and then said that i seemed to be trying to replicated AP's town play, and THEN you call AP scum. Why would you sheep AP's ideas and then call him scummy?

@ MOI: My reads had more to do than just them lurking. For instance, Amrun isn't lurking. His content seems lacking, imo and due to POE he seemed like the scum on rc's wagon. The Zyrc wagon had nothing to do with his lack of posts, i just pointed that out because I am waiting to hear from him. Deas again has more to do POE and with the quality of the post that he did make.

So it's not lurking that i'm going after- it's the quality of the posts that i find to be off.

What is IIOA?

I didn't realize zyrc was being replaced so

unvote

him for now.

I don't see the case on quilford and i find nothing inconsistent with what empking pointed out. Empking hasn't offered very good content in general.

I think Seil is town. I'm okay with an iceguy wagon. I don't like his vote on AP as a defense tactic. I don't like his attack on seil for giving safe reads when he admits that some of her reads werent necessarily safe (AP/ hiraki.) I don't like the dismissive nature at 250, probably for realizing that his wagon is starting to pickup.

Vote: Iceguy

[Eidolon]

@ Deaswave. Yes, i'm interested in both of those people. Looking at their ISOs, amrun sticks out more to me so

Unvote, Vote: Amrun

@MOI. If I know i'm town (or have a strong townread on someone) I see no real issue with trying to discern which person on my wagon is most likely to be scum.

Also, I refused that stance on RC because I'm very familiar with his playstyle and he was giving me his typical town vibes. Like i said, it wasn't the lurking from the other players i had an issue with. it was the content.

@ Iceguy: it was defensive because you used it as a response to being called out.

[Eidolon]

Deaswave, i don't have a huge scum read on you so i was never interested in lynching you. just a couple things that seem suspect. your responses seem to make sense so i'd rather pursue other people.

[Eidolon]

because i understand his perspective and how it could be town. and if he has two of the same scum reads as me, then i see no problem in him voting with me

Your posts to me reek of someone who is feigning to scumhunt. You just place some votes on wagons with momentum without much attack. Your attack on me seemed like the easiest thing you could think of at the time instead of a legit scumread.

In your most recent post you say that i scrambled- latch on to any wagon that i could with momentum on it. Then why did i vote you? I thought you were scum before and still do. Why did you not pursue me in any way if you think my reads are bad?

Why is the case on iceguy poor?

Why do you say i must be scum if seilkops flips scum, and then immediately reject that thought? planting a seed and then saying "well i don't want to get called out on this so maybe not?"

[Eidolon]

@ Amrun, you said you pursued me, but like i said, it was on a contradiction that seemed fake/ an easy thing to pick out without actually having to scumhunt. but you said the reads i made were bad. you didn't comment on those/ say why. or ask me anything about them. you said you wanted to see my reaction after switching over to me and you haven't pursued me at all since that first post. your attack on seil seems like reaching just like your attack on me.

You also claim that i never bothered trying to figure you out when I could say the same about you, and I also asked about 5 questions in that post to you. Yeah. You're just making stuff up.

@ mod. I'm going to be v/la until tuesday.

I'll try to make it on once or twice to check in but i will have no internet connection at my house.

angrypidgeon, why tierce?

[Eidolon]

Tierce, why do you bring up the fact that I kept "stalling" by saying i'd do this or that later but you are doing much the same thing?

[Eidolon]

ehh, after a skim, i'm not sure on amruns affiliation. might be town.

unvote.

i'll post more tomorrow.

[Eidolon]

I'm reading up now. Kind of back and forth about amrun. Still leaning scum but for some reason my gut is pulling me away. My other option would be maekumi. So far her posts seem to be fluffy and some of her interaction with RC seems forced. I already had a gut read on her predecessor.

I think maekumi could give us more info than amrun though.

[Eidolon]

This needs to die. I would power-lynch this in a heartbeat if the votes swung that way. This is so Not Town it is painful.

AGAIN – Anyone who had the power to kill at Night who doesn’t kill this (assuming Eid isn’t hung) shall be ridiculed harshly.

That's stupid. I realize i'm not being the most active or attentive player right now but that doesn't make me scum. I gave my legit thoughts. You lynch/kill players who are scum, not one's who aren't playing the most pro-town. Frankly i'm just not feeling this game very much but interest will hopefully pick up at some point. At least i'm giving my thoughts and opinions unlike some players (Empking.) wonder why you just gloss over him but want to kill me?

I don't really want an amrun lynch anymore. Her recent reactions sound town.

I actually agree with some of tierce's points on maemuki and would be more inclined to lynch her though my scumread isn't extremely strong.

Angrypidgeon, what is scumtierce's motivation behind arguing against the amrun wagon and for a maemuki wagon?

[Eidolon]

sorry^ don't know how that happened. that was MOI

[Eidolon]

Okay let me try to sort a few things out.

So far my only relatively strong townreads are on RC, angrypidgeon, and leaning town reads on deaswave and seilkops.

i'm kind of iffy about everyone else but i'm leaning empking towards scumread.

The amrun lynch started with me, deaswave, MOI, and empking.

then the counter on maemuki started with tierce, rc, iceguy.

Tierce is likely town. If amrun was scum, I don't see tierce trying to diffuse his wagon so blatantly. If amrun was town, I don't see why tierce would try to steer from a town lynch at that point.

That leaves me with one scum read and one town read on amrun, and one strong town and one maybe town on maemuki.

Furthermore I think maemuki's interaction with RC seemed a bit forced.

I'd prefer an empking lynch though.

I really, really think his 428 is scum motivated and MOI's reaction to it makes me think of an MOI/ empking scumteam.

But i realize that getting a wagon on that is unlikely right now so I'll settle for

vote: maemuki.

[Eidolon]

Hiraki, theres nothing to say to you. you're parking your vote on me, with no momentum on it, and not puting any case forward. that's scummy.


MOI, saying that my unvote is a disaster is an easy thing to say but it's really not the case.

A bunch of people know the deadline is coming so they might just throw their vote on anyone and lynch a townie. I don't want to have my vote on someone until i'm more certain that they are scum. Obviously i placed my vote on my best option before the deadline but you are just going to ignore that to continue to push scum motivation when it wasn't there.

You say that i haven't given reads on people but i just did before your post. Also, look here: 99, 122, 159, 165, 171, 226, 255, 257, 275 etc etc....

i've been giving reads the whole damn day

[Eidolon]

Hiraki, you are using ATE. throwing those thoughts into my face doesn't make them true.

There is nothing wrong with changing opinions. Especially on the first dp when there is not much to go off. Show me the scum motivation behind changing my opinions as i read peoples posts.

About your post 248: again it's just an ate. you say that i'm ABOUT to do something. How is what you assume i were to do if i was scum in any way a scum read? My quote there was not bad. I have a town read on AP. I thought the attack on him was bad.

About post 175: if you don't think it's applicable then too bad. I don't think your statement is applicable.

Does that do any good? No. if you don't think its applicable and expect me to respond more thoroughly, tell me why. I mean, so here we see that YOU are in fact lying because i DID respond to your post. It just wasn't up to your standards so it doesn't count? lmao.

@ AP. I see what you are saying about tierce because as mafia she'd want to seem pro-town. But i'm not fully convinced on your case against her. I do agree with some of her points on maemuki. I'm still trying to figure out of the "double standard" thing was a valid slip up or just a stretch but i'm leaning more towards a stretch. I'd ask you to elaborate on the issue but perhaps we should wait til tomorrow due to the deadline. Why not maemuki?

[Eidolon]

Okay I missed the logic that the wagons are tied - they're not ACTUALLY tied, so I don't think this should happen.

Like, just saying, "Well, we don't know who X, y, and Z will vote, so let's just make them both claim!" is the DUMBEST FUCKING IDEA EVER. Let's get Hiraki, DW, etc. to weigh in first.

If Maemuki doesn't get on to claim, then we lynch... That's basically how I view it. Town wouldn't avoid claiming. IceGuy can be relied upon to check in here and claim if necessary, I think.

p-edit: OHAI

why did you wait to make that point until after tierce already said it? you basically just took that argument from her and are trying to pass it off as yours. O.o

[Eidolon]

sorry, i bolded the wrong part, lol. meant to bold the paragraph above that ^^;

[Eidolon]

That leaves me with one scum read and one town read on amrun, and one strong town and one maybe town on maemuki.

What does this paragraph mean? What are the people you are referring to, and why are you voting a 'maybe town' read over someone you don't even mention in this post, i.e. IceGuy?

I was talking about the people on those wagons, not the suspects themselves.

I said i had a slight scumread on empking and slight townread on deaswave. so at that time that was 1/1 for amrun's wagon.

i had a one strong townread on rc and one possibly town on you on maemuki's wagon.

so that played a factor in my reasoning as well as some stuff that i had mentioned previously (amrun's reactions seemed town, had a scum read on zyrc since his first post, mae's interaction with rc, etc.)

I wasn't talking about iceguy because i don't think he's particularly scummy. i have a null read on him.

[Eidolon]

Okay. There might be scum SOMEWHERE on the mae wagon from yesterday, but i think it's best to start the day off looking at people who weren't on it and go from there.

angrypidgeon, seilkops, empking, hiraki, quilford


Angrypidgeon- he seems town. He was aggressive and adamant yesterday, refusing to lynch mae. I think he really believed what he was saying.

Seilkops - after looking back over her posts, she seems to change her opinions back and forth a lot, especially on the issues of me & Rc. This might be town.

As far is suspects, i'm more interested in all three of empking, hiraki, quilford. mainly in that order.

Empking - His initial post 55 is bad. He ignores much of what is going on to say that something rubbed him the wrong way. 121 and his whole case on quilford is bad, imo. Again he ignores a lot of what is going on to focus on this minor inconsistency. His 428 is absolutely horrible. Resigning town to 2 options by saying it's not pro-town to do differently.

Hiraki- he zoned in on me hard yesterday even when it was clear his vote was going nowhere. He never gave reasoning until later on in the dp and he used a lot of ATE to make me seem bad when he never actually showed a scum motive with anything that i did.

Quilford- not much content though i really don't have much more to say on him right now. Will read up more later.

A couple notes on the wagon: Tierce is obv town. RC is obv town. I think i'm pretty strong town.

Amrun is kind of null because the mae wagon was self-preservation, but other things have me leaning slight town on her.

that leaves Deaswave and MOI though i'm not strong on either of these people. Null for both.

VOTE: Vote: Empking

[Eidolon]

Im flying to ireland so LA for a day or so.

initial suspicion is DW/eidolon. At airport right now.

why me? i was pretty much the first person to mention scum zyrc and i brought up some points against him early on with no motivation to bus him at the time.

I get what you are saying about lynching on the wagon. I think it is more likely that someone did it later on in the wagon when it was more inevitable. I'd like to hear more from deawave. I also wonder why you say MOI is town. Maybe i missed something regarding him. I'll have to go back and reread his iso.

So Amrun … I trust you now understand I’m Town. If it isn’t clear I can elaborate if necessary but I doubt I will need to.

Strange comment. Could you elaborate?

[Eidolon]

Empking - His initial post 55 is bad. He ignores much of what is going on to say that something rubbed him the wrong way. 121 and his whole case on quilford is bad, imo. Again he ignores a lot of what is going on to focus on this minor inconsistency. His 428 is absolutely horrible. Resigning town to 2 options by saying it's not pro-town to do differently.

I don't think it's pro-town to add noise when you have no new insight on one subject and do have insight on a second. Especially if you consider the first subject relatively unimportant.

isn't saying " angrypidgeon is rubbing me the wrong way" moreso adding noise rather than pointing to something about ap that was off, or asking him a question? At that point there was plenty to comment on. why was that all you had to say? Why did you zone in on such a small comment of quilford? Do you still think quilford is scum and do you have any more reasons than that initial one?

[Eidolon]

It was the scummiest thing thus far; it's a take it to the bank tell. Although his refusal to really post any more is scummy that's a more narrative just so story rather than something as solid as the comment.

Please elaborate on how it is a "Take it to the bank tell." I don't see that at all.

Also, you highlight his refusal to post more?

"I don't want to post noise"

Pot meet kettle.

Ap, i'm saying that at the time i brought up the points against him, there was no motivation for me to put focus on him. it was early in the dp and there were plenty of people who i could have focused on if i was scum. my reads on him were legit.

Something about deaswave was odd iirc. He essentially said that i voted for mae for wishy washy reasonings. I voted for mae for a mix of the zryc case that i made on him, a couple other points, and based off of wagon dynamics. He essentially voted for mae based off of wagon dynamics as well. It's hypocritical. Deaswave how was my vote wishy washy when yours was essentially based off of similar reasoning?

[Eidolon]

AP, you think this is light bussing, but intentionally focusing on other players so as not to bring too much attention on him? Even though i KEPT going after him and mentioning him after he stopped posting into him about to be replaced?

unvote

zyrconium, current thoughts on angrypidgeon?

^ that's a wagon i could possibly get behind but for a different reason.

zyrconium, what did you find off about teirce's post 35?

This is why i had a slight suspicion of zyrconium: his reaction to teirce. i don't think there is anything inherently alignment affiliated or detrimental about voting without reason, and particularly in the early stages, it's effective for reaction testing. It seems like he was reaching for suspicions, and trying dissuade teirce's reaction testing.

His response hasn't had much to alleviate that. That being said, I think his response to the Apidg. thing was fence-sitting. I'd vote him right now but

@ Mod: I will be v/la over the weekend. I might be able to check in here and there as best i can.

I don't want to put up a vote until I'll be more active, but I would like to hear more from zyrc.

I get the case on RC but until he gives us more, i still like a zyrc wagon better.

Vote:Zyrconium

I still don't like how amrun just pops in, posts a question or a vote and doesn't offer up much. is this his normal playstyle?

My other scumspect right now is deaswave, for post 95, the only real post of his.

I still like the zyrc wagon and he pretty much just stopped posting. want to hear more from him.

I can kinda get behind the iceguy thing but i have to reread it all. Same with the quilford/empking thing. Kinda meh about this game right now though I understand (some) points against me. Haven't been on my best game as far as explaining myself goes.

[Eidolon]

Ap, If you think that my faith in my own posts shows townieness, then why are you saying i'm scum? The motivation that you attribute to me isn't surefire enough to override that because you are ignoring that i focused on a scum to opt for the intention that i was bussing.

69 was asking for a response from something scummy that he did. How is 99 lack of commitment? I made my case on him but i was going v/la so i didn't put a vote. when i came back, i put my vote up.

At that time he hadn't responded in a while so i easily could have moved to someone else. I brought him up then in 122 and again in 225 while pushing for him to respond to me. I was determined in my read. I didn't go on to someone else. You say that i was focusing on other players. Do you honestly expect that i would ignore everyone else and tunnel on someone who was barely posting?

It's a stretch to say that I did all that as scum because there was minimal enough suspicion on him to where he could have gotten by if i hadn't brought him up. I could have fosed him here and there and dropped it when he stopped posting or said his response was sufficient or whatever.

I pushed him early on in the day when he could have easily gotten by.

It's a huge stretch to say that I had scum motivation to do that. And not only to bring up a case but to attempt to get him to respond.

[Eidolon]

I guess my point is that my early case eventually got the momentum going for people to see that he was scum. For people to say tierce is obvtown for pushing the wagon hard in the later stages and to say i'm obvscum for pushing the wagon (Admittidley less aggressively) in the early stages is bullshit.

It's wifom to say that i did that because i was bussing and I have something more credible than any of the people who avoided the issue, didn't vote, or voted without showing that they actually believed he was scum.

My initial posting and the post where i voted for him show that i really believed he was the best scum suspect.

So look at empking, quilford, hiraki, and to a lesser extent deas & MOI (not sure why he's saying he's 100% town)

[Eidolon]

Still have never used AtE in my case and, even though I've asked you about this already, you still haven't shown where the AtE is.

Eidolon is lying.

I'll admit that I was a tad bit surprised by the Maemuki flip.

I will not be surprised by this Eido flip.

You basically just put scum motive into my words when it was all speculation and you showed no actual motivation. I'll go and dig it up in a second.

Why focus so hard on me? Why ignore all other players to attack someone with no momentum? What are you hoping to accomplish?

[Eidolon]

eid is over-reacting

about to pull the victim card

this is also the worst statement in the game by far:

I see scum motivation in that especially since i'm leaning town on angrypidgeon.

Over-reacting. ATE. Doesn't show affiliation. Town gets worked up too.

About to pull the victim card? That is no case. What you think i'm about to do doesn't make me scum.

"Worst Statement" = ATE. Nothing bad about finding a bad push on someone i think is town.

wazzup eidolon

do you just ignore me

is that your tactic

it's working because no one is noticing

but don't worry

you shall fall

More ATE and a blatant misrep that i'm ignoring you (even though i responded to your main points)

[Eidolon]

I think calling what Tierce did "later stages" is completely inaccurate.

okay. so "all stages but the early stage" then.

[Eidolon]

BAM.

@ MOI. Him using choice words to elicit a certain feeling in someone without actually pointing to the faulty reasoning and/or scum motivation behind my posts? Yeah, that's what he was doing.

[Eidolon]

DW, look at my post 609. so you think i bussed

both

of my scumbuddies, (assuming emp flips scum) when there was more pressure on me in both instances? yeah, okay.. good luck with that.

also, please answer this:

Something about deaswave was odd iirc. He essentially said that i voted for mae for wishy washy reasonings. I voted for mae for a mix of the zryc case that i made on him, a couple other points, and based off of wagon dynamics. He essentially voted for mae based off of wagon dynamics as well. It's hypocritical. Deaswave how was my vote wishy washy when yours was essentially based off of similar reasoning?

@ RC. How do you know tierce would pick more scums? especially since quil most likely tracked correctly? Point is, announcing your plans to mafia is just..... terrible.

[Eidolon]

Hey Eidolon

I'm glad you noticed that TWO little potions of my case are AtE

And not all of it

Now, stop calling all of it AtE

Thanks.

Unvote, Vote: Empking

soo.. you admit that parts of your attack were faulty. okay. we can go over the rest tomorrow if we are both still alive.

[Eidolon]

rc, moi is town.

[Eidolon]

RC, if you really are a body guard, protect Quilford if Empking flips scum.

Quilford, track Amrun or Eidolon. If a night kill happens we'll know who the culprit is.

so you ignore my question to attempt to direct night actions? nice.

@ RC: read his posts from this dp more carefully.

[Eidolon]

~ DW

do you realize that when a mafia gets caught, it's in their buddies best interest to hammer quickly before more talking can ensue?

Your vote on Empking this dp is waay way waaay more suspect than mine.

And your attempt to say that my vote on maemuki was wishy-washy is hypocritical at best.

[Eidolon]

^especially since you followed my vote on amrun and didn't jump on mae until it was clear amrun was going nowhere BECAUSE i unvoted amrun.

[Eidolon]

Actually no, I'm not. I'm glad you're taking all that you can get though. It shows how bad you are at these things.

I said I was skimming.

Wtf does skimming have to do with anything? you obviously read my post because you responded to it. You said yourself that parts of your attack were BS. It is what it is... and now you are calling me "bad at these things" for pointing that out... idk... i can't tell if your scum or just terrible in general at making any coherent cases. Ohhh, how about that, mr. asshat?

Yes because everyone who looks at it and sees "worst statement" is going to start thinking that it's the worst statement in the game by far no questions asked.

So i explained my reasoning and why my statement wasn't bad and you just.. don't respond to it??? You never actually say what is so bad about it. you just say this is the worst and expect people to agree.

The best part is that you still haven't responded to my points about your changing stance.

i did respond to that. Another blatant misrep. Liar. Like i said there is nothing wrong with changing an opinion as town. you even said YOURSELF that YOU sometimes do that as town. no townies have 100% clarity or accuracy on who is scum. If they did there wouldn't be much of a game now would there? You never showed how my change in opinion alluded to any sort of scum motive.

[Eidolon]

What's your point there? Are you calling me scum or are you just vaguely lashing out at me because I'm pointing the finger at you in a big way?

~ DW

My point is that you are ignoring my case...

in order to direct the night actions at me.

That is scummy. That is multiple times now that you are ignoring my question.

[Eidolon]

RC, if you really are a body guard, protect Quilford if Empking flips scum.

Quilford, track Amrun or Eidolon. If a night kill happens we'll know who the culprit is.

so you ignore my question to attempt to direct night actions? nice.

@ RC: read his posts from this dp more carefully.

Do you mean when you asked if you would bus both your scumbuddies? I thought that was rhetorical. Yes, that's a possibility. Why is it unthinkable that someone would bus both buddies?

~ DW

DW, look at my post 609. so you think i bussed

both

of my scumbuddies, (assuming emp flips scum) when there was more pressure on me in both instances? yeah, okay.. good luck with that.

also, please answer this:

Something about deaswave was odd iirc. He essentially said that i voted for mae for wishy washy reasonings. I voted for mae for a mix of the zryc case that i made on him, a couple other points, and based off of wagon dynamics. He essentially voted for mae based off of wagon dynamics as well. It's hypocritical. Deaswave how was my vote wishy washy when yours was essentially based off of similar reasoning?

@ RC. How do you know tierce would pick more scums? especially since quil most likely tracked correctly? Point is, announcing your plans to mafia is just..... terrible.

Also, why would you suspect someone who bussed both buddies, potentially, when they were getting more heat than those buddies, over other players who have made more scummy votes on the scum (like votes after the track results) or not voted them at all and done just as much scummy stuff?

it's reaching.

[Eidolon]

I think deaswave is just reaching on me because he thinks i'm a good mislynch target. even though i've made a lot of pro-town actions today, people seem to find my statements scummy.

I don't really like hiraki's play but i'm not certain that he's scum.

[Eidolon]

^i meant to say this game, not today.

[Eidolon]

What's your point there? Are you calling me scum or are you just vaguely lashing out at me because I'm pointing the finger at you in a big way?

~ DW

My point is that you are ignoring my case...

in order to direct the night actions at me.

That is scummy. That is multiple times now that you are ignoring my question.

Yeah? Why are you so afraid of being tracked?

Do you intend on going somewhere tonight?

~ DW

again you ignore my question to attempt to direct night actions.

They can track me if they want although it'd be useless.

So why did you say my vote, supported by wagon dynamics, was wishy washy, when your vote was... supported by wagon dynamics? and place at a much more opportune time..? (when it was clear amrun wasn't going to take off.)

And why do you focus on a player who has made pro-town actions (making cases for two scums, one before tracker results implicated them, unvoted the counter to a scum wagon at a critical time so that the wagon didn't take hold, etc.) over players who have deliberately avoided scumhunting and going after scums?

[Eidolon]

Still pretty mad about my wrongness on IceGuy. Whatever.

I think deaswave is just reaching on me because he thinks i'm a good mislynch target. even though i've made a lot of pro-town actions today, people seem to find my statements scummy.

I don't really like hiraki's play but i'm not certain that he's scum.

Well, I'm glad you think you're playing well. Self-confidence is always nice.
Eidolon getting tracked is not a problem with me, and I don't think scum would go for a no NK. So far, he's been acting pretty flailey, and that's never reassuring.
@Eid
You look like you're just OMGUS'ing Hiraki, I'd like if you gave some reasoning to this unhelpful little gem.

I don't really like hiraki's play but i'm not certain that he's scum.

Your 708 definitely does not count, by the way. It kinda sucks.

How am i omgusing him? I'm just saying that his case sucks. I'm not really sure if he's scum. It's definitely a possibility but he's just playing so bad that i don't even know what to make of it anymore...

I am playing well thanks I think my scumdar has been awesome since coming to this site. I think the people calling me scum are just jealous of my awesome scumdar because i went for two scums. lol jk of course! But seriously, my playstyle can be a little frantic, people like to latch on to that for whatever reason even though my actions and motivations have been town. I can elaborate on why if needed but i'd rather wait to continue all this discussion for tomorrow.

Quil can track me if he wants i guess. But i'd like him to make his own decision (It really would be a waste...) and for mafia not to know towns plans so they don't know how to use that to their advantage.

[Eidolon]

so tierce, you think that Moi is a mafia gunsmith or what?

Anyways, DW was completely ignoring my case yesterday, but i also want to hear from seilkops as she's been kinda laying low.

Do you all think it's beneficial for everyone to make a list of suspects, from most to least scummy? Here's mine:

DW- Seilkops - Ap - Tierce - Amrun - MOI - Quilford

I'll give reasoning if needed.

[Eidolon]

I don't think the gunsmith role does what you think it does. I know it's counter-intuitive, but gunsmiths only test for the existence of guns. That's not MoI's role.

I'll give reasoning if needed.

By all means.

Yeah, i'm not too familiar with gunsmith/ gun giving roles from my other site. But anyway, you think moi is scum? is there any reason besides the way he used his role?

I'll be back later today to give my reads.

ap, why is tierce obvtown? is it not possible that she was the one bussing her partner?

DW, could you explain the reasoning behind how your other head convinced you of my townieness?

I mean, i get that as scum it would be impractical to give up a scumread now, but i can see how you would do that to potentially lessen my heat on you and to get some town points as well.

[Eidolon]

ap, why is tierce obvtown? is it not possible that she was the one bussing her partner?

Oh, so there was definitely someone bussing Mae then?

it's likely that someone bussed their buddy somewhere in the game.

Do you really think Quilford could bus his last buddy on D2 and expect to win?

what? Why do you say that about quilford but vote me?

Here are my rough reads:

DW: our interaction yesterday. he ignored my questions on him to try and direct night actions and paint me out as scummy in the process. he was late on the wagons. slightly scum.

Seilkops: hasn't been very influential in the game. opinions sway a lot. slightly scum.

AP: I had a pretty strong town read on him for a while, but he wasn't in on either scum wagon and he refused to lynch scum on day 1. this could have been a town read, but it's possible he took a wifomy risk in doing that. i haven't understood much of his perspective since then.

Tierce: I agree that her actions on d 1 go a long way in making her pro town. But she's been playing very close to her hand and i don't like that i can't really read her. I wonder how she had such a strong scum read on maemuki but then hasn't offered up much scum leads since then. makes me think she could be coasting by her day 1 actions. so i have a slight townread on her but i'm not really confident in that.

Amrun: I still think her response to pressure was town. she was the counterwagon to scum on d 1.

MOI: i think his breadcrumbing was legit and I understand many of his perspectives in the game.

Quilford: powerrole which caught a killer. 2nd scum so bussing is unlikely here. Empking made a good target from his perspective.


Points for me:

First to vote scum day two. unlikely to bus two scums in a row for no reason, especially when more pressure was geared at me.

Pressured scum early on day one. Unvoted amrun at the right time, got momentum off of her when i could have let my vote stay on her, and got some heat for it in the process, and then went on to vote scum.

[Eidolon]

what? Why do you say that about quilford but vote me?

Because the circumstances are hugely different.

I need to ISO Seil. His general inactivity is making me forget about him.

How are the circumstances different?

What benefit does it give me as scum to vote empking and then go after him at the start of day 2?

How would i bus 2 of my buddies and expect to win?

Theres a point where bussing your buddies sabotages your win condition. I'd be facing a 7/8 player town on my own (most likely) if i really bussed empking yesterday. it's not reasonable to assume someone bussed both of their buddies unless there were no other options. (hint: there were plenty of options on the beginning of day 2.)

[Eidolon]

Tierce, i understand what you are saying. Like i said, i'm still leaning town on you, i just don't think it's full-proof.

Your vote on Zyrconium was inconsequential, it was not 'pressure'

This. Also if Quilford is bussing then his claim is super testable and will ultimately come back to bite him. That is the difference.

I gave a case and put pressure on him. It's not really my fault if he never responded and i ended up looking at someone else.

It still doesn't explain the unlikeliness of pressuring empking when i could have pressured a more suspicious townie on day 2. If any townies had latched on to a case on him, i would have been doomed.

Something MOI said about deaswave's response to mae flipping town was convincing for deaswave, so i wouldn't mind a seil lynch. but i'd rather reread some stuff first and wait for seil to come in with her response.

[Eidolon]

First off, I have no idea where this Mae wagon came from, and I don't like it. I need to read in-depth later who established, and who pushed that wagon.

Ok, skimming and some things caught my attention.

I regret stopping the Eid wagon, she seems scummy now with her Hiraki interactions.

I think she put me as town in relief I didn't hop on her wagon.

Seilkops could you explain this?

[Eidolon]

2 main suspects, seilkops and deaswave.

First I’ll post comments that stick out as odd to me, then I’ll go over what clues empking & zyrc/mae left us.

Seil:

58 - says gave “rvs disclaimer” rather than just picking someone other than grey, because he posted last.

107 - Says “I guess I should take my vote off. God damn it” for having to take her vote off of MOI, because his actions were explained by others as null. Seems like an odd reaction.

Post 138, 141: rc is scum, 202 - eidolon/ rc scumteam, post 239 - unvotes rc, says eidolon/rc interaction is forced, but doesn’t want an eido bandwagon?, post 259 - now says our old site explains out interaction, no suspicion. Post 290 - again defends me/ rc, says my wagon will just lead to another claim. Post 513 - votes me

585 - tells iceguy to vote her, of all people, with only a couple hours in the game left?

Only has about 5 posts since day 1.

Soo.. Day 1 her voting goes like this : Vote Angrypidgeon, MOI, RC, Iceguy, Eidolon, Iceguy.

She was very wishy - washy on the me/rc thing and actually a lot of her iso focuses on it. There seems to be a bit of fluff involved here.


Deaswave:

51: asks RC thoughts on game without giving any himself.

95: Calls me scum for copying AP’s town-play, regurgitates another reason that AP used to call me scum, and THEN called AP scummy. I really dislike this. He says hydra is why, and that we can both be scum, but he said I was replicating ap’s “TOWN PLAY” which is just wrong.

413: Partial reason for thinking zyrc was town: “but I thought that it’s the type of thing scum would think is scummy and not try to do” Really aweful reasoning. Also says due to the amount of questions zyrc asked. Seems like shaky reasoning.

462: not sold on maemuki

558: calls my mae vote wishy-washy, vote due to wagon dynamics, votes mae.

707, 709, 714: ignores my question, tries to direct night actions.


Vote on day 1: Eidolon, Amrun, Maemuki

I remember something that stuck out to me was that deas asked me about some wagons, and then followed me on who I wagoned (after apparently having me as a scumread) and then when I unvoted and voted maemuki, he followed me on that too. (then calls me wishy-washy voting mae)

He uses division between 2 people as reasoning for near every accusation thrown his way. Never played with a hydra before so I’m not sure if this is credible or not.

He seemed to have asked a lot more questions and when stronger after people than seilkops.

Ugh. I’m still having difficulty deciding. I’ll need to think on it more. I had gut on deas most of the game but for some reason its switched to seilkops today. I find more BAD things about deaswave but there are also a lot of more good things, which makes me think deaswave is inno.. Because he’s less concerned with how he’s perceived, which is why there are more contradictions in his posts.

Deaswave, do you still think amrun is scum? What about mae & empkings iso made you think I am town?

Seilkops, I have no idea where your perspective is at right now. Who do you think is scum and why?

[Eidolon]

Maemuki:

For perspective, she says to empking “are you even trying at this point? Cause I don’t see much content coming from you”

Answers Deaswave’s question on how caught up with the game she is: “DeasWave; decently updated I suppose, although I could do with one more reread or something. Why?”

Zyrc voted amrun, keeps her vote there during day 1.

Doesn’t mention Deaswave or Seilkops otherwise, no reads on either.


Empking:

Asks Seilkops why AP is fed up town and not fed up scum

Asks seilkops “why did you vote MOI again? I just want to make sure I understand your reasoning”

Votes quilford, amrun, iceguy


Ehhh. His interaction with seil is kinda random? This I think gives more points towards seil scum, although any analysis of scum has a lot of wifom involved.

[Eidolon]

Why have you limited yourself to analysis of just Seil and us, considering your weak (I think) reads on AP and Tierce?

Because those were my strongest scum reads, i figured i'd rather lynch one of those options today.

Right now i'm leaning on seil, but i might look at Ap's iso before making a final decision.

What are your thoughts of AP?

Seil, why am i scum?

Laugh all you want at the rc/me analysis, but nearly every post you changed your mind and your justification for why was rather shaky. first you said our interaction looked force, yet you still thought votes on me would lead to a (implied town) claim, and then you justified it by saying our old site was the reason for our interaction, but if i claimed i might just be fake claiming and it wouldn't matter.... those couple posts were straight BS and you know it. If i had to fake claim, i very likely would have been spotted.

[Eidolon]

Ok here gaiz. I'll start of by claiming.

I am: Cardinal Ignatius Glick
I have no abilities that I know of.

Post 138, 141: rc is scum, 202 - eidolon/ rc scumteam, post 239 - unvotes rc, says eidolon/rc interaction is forced, but doesn’t want an eido bandwagon?, post 259 - now says our old site explains out interaction, no suspicion. Post 290 - again defends me/ rc, says my wagon will just lead to another claim. Post 513 - votes me

Wow, this is confusing. You kinda forgot to mention i unvoted RC because HE CLAIMED. Why I would keep my vote on a CONFIRMED TOWN is beyond me. But nice job. Also, you just straight up lied on what I said in post 259. (Not quoting posts is a common scum tell, as players are less likely to actually go back and double check the validity). No where in Post 259 do I say I have no suspicion of you.
In post 290, I defend you from people trying to fish another role. Seriously. Barely anyone posted any reasoning of why they changed their vote to you after RC claimed.
And then, 300 posts later, I vote you. Wow what a great scum tell! You really caught me Eid.
That is such dumb reasoning.

585 - tells iceguy to vote her, of all people, with only a couple hours in the game left?

Because he said I was scum, and then proceeded to not vote me?

So I think Eid is scum.
Is AP conf town? Cause if he isn't, he might be scum for hopping on such a hole filled wagon.

Soooo... i called you a guy. may bad.

And you ignored the rest of my analysis (shown below) to repeater what you said earlier pretty much that my analysis on the rc/me thing is bs. Please respond to this:

Laugh all you want at the rc/me analysis, but nearly every post you changed your mind and your justification for why was rather shaky. first you said our interaction looked force, yet you still thought votes on me would lead to a (implied town) claim, and then you justified it by saying our old site was the reason for our interaction, but if i claimed i might just be fake claiming and it wouldn't matter.... those couple posts were straight BS and you know it. If i had to fake claim, i very likely would have been spotted.

Because those posts are so contradictory i don't even know what to say... actually, okay, if you really want, i'll go and dig them up so people can see for themselves how shaky they are.

you say i'm scum because you don't like my case on you? Okay. Do you have anything else? Because i think my case on you is just fine.

How exactly does a vanilla claim save you like you said it would?

[Eidolon]

UNVOTE: RC
Bai bai RC wagon.

Sorry MoI for not including you in my reads, but I've been trying to look at Emp and Quil like I said I would, and still need to finish those up.
If you really wanna know what I think about you
Moi: Null

The interactions between Eidolon and RC are just odd. I still feel like the reads they put on each other are forced, attacking or defending one another.
The votes on Eid are just going to produce another claim, and I don't think we want that.

Let's slow down before putting Eidolon on L1.
Why is everyone just straight transferring their votes to Eidolon?

Unvote; Vote: Eidolon

You said you thought a possible scum team was RC/Eidolon. RC claims bodyguard, so you just move your vote to next possible target? That does not seem like a recipe for success.

AngryPidgeon's reads seem convenient, both the early Zyrc scum read and the sellkops (wagon was dying down) and Tierce (safe town read) town reads. Same goes for sellkops' reads, except for the "solid town" read on AngryPidgeon.

Do you agree or disagree with my solid town read on AP? Otherwise, I don't understand what you're saying. Of course I read Tierce as town, because she's been acting town. Would you have liked it more if I put her down as scum? "Safe town read" makes literally no reason. Especially considering you have not said a single thing about Tierce.
So Ice. I'd like to know. How do you feel about Tierce? Don't forget, you can't put her down as town. Much too safe!
All I'm hearing from you is that you forgot about this game, and then some useless/scummy pointing out on reads.
Why are you trying to throw suspicion on my reads, and for crappy reasons?

rapidcanyon is my top suspect for reasons outlined in others' posts.

Yeah, ok. Way to show initiative.

IceGuy is

my

top suspect for reasons outlined in my own post, complete with my own thoughts and reasoning.

VOTE: IceGuy
I wanna see more posting from you. Anyone else down to vote him?

So a bodyguard claim. What is Donovan from? Need to reread later, sorry. Had a date last night :3

Someone's in loveee

This rubs me the wrong way. Weird as it is, I find people stating that claims are bad to be a scumtell. IIoA I guess.

Seil, RC's claim looks legit. Hence why people are transferring to their next scum read.

I don't think it was good that RC had to claim to get out of L1. I'd rather scum did not know his alignment.
The thing I don't like about everyone just simply transferring their votes to Eid, is that theirs a solid chance that we'll just have the same result we did with RC. Another role that scum will know.
We should at least look more at Eid instead of just piling on votes and half-waiting for a claim from her. That strategy will get us nowhere.

Ok. Why is my gut telling me this is bussing? Its distancing and its very light accusations. It seems forced.

Wait, you think I was bussing IceGuy? If so, I think you just have indigestion, not a gut read. I saw something scummy that deserved my vote, and then voted for the poster.

About RC and Eid

I feel like they're used to this "debate.org" site where the standards are different. Foh sure, I've noticed that their playstyle is very different. The strongest instance of how I saw debate.org influences them is when RC posts

Also, I'd claim my role but apparently, people on mafiascum consider it "scummy" to claim before reaching L-1, so w/e, suit yourself.

While bitchy and whiny (no offense RC), you can see how different their play style is, compared to usual mafiascum peoplez. Or maybe they just suck, not 100% sure.
@RC
You signed up to play on mafiascum, don't make it such a big deal that you have to follow the norm around here.



I feel like my post reads like an essay, but I've been writing essays for like 5 hours so maybe I'm just desensitized.

Ok, back and in a fresher mood now!

AP seems like a real believe in gut kinda town. I'm usually hesitant when it comes to gut reads. They're hard to follow, and I just like some solid reasoning behind my vote instead of something like my gut. In that sense, I have a hard time reading big time into things like tone, and flow, and other things AP mentions.
I like to think my posting isn't forced, but I know that's not always the case.

I still really dislike this quote. Why is Seil so preemptively concerned about claims and not about scum hunting? Most of Seil's posts sound genuine to me, but I would pretty much vote for him just because of this at this point.

Because I'd like to keep important roles hidden from scum, it helps out town in the long run. If Eid is scum, and is forced to claim, she could probs fabricate a cover for her easy enough. Whether or not it would be believable is really up to how competent a player she is. Either way, we gain nothing by pushing an Eid wagon that was formed by RC claiming.

Ok I ran out of time, but I'll follow up my thoughts tonight when I get back.

Contradictory and bad justification for your reasoning. You know i'm town so you think it's pro-town to stop me from claiming, but your only real reasoning behind that is "if she had to fake claim she could fabricate it easy enough"

[Eidolon]

Soooo... i called you a

girl.

my bad.

[Eidolon]

^ i didn't even vote for you yet. i haven't decided yet.

if you flip town, then i'll look at ap & deas, and everyone else too..

what's the point of asking me that? especially if you think im scum?

[Eidolon]

Post 803 - Seilkops says: "I'm seriously considering claiming to get this bullshit wagon off me."
Post 808 - AP calls Seil on the softclaim and expresses doubt that it's legit, given the amount of PRs we have already.
Post 809 - Seil claims... as a named townie with no powers.

This is obvious. Seil was going to fakeclaim a PR to save his hide, but he got called out on the soft claim by AP who expressed doubt that there would be another PR. So Seil backtracked and decided to claim a named townie instead, even though that certainly wouldn't defuse his wagon.

He was going to claim a PR, got cold feet, and then botched it with a

named townie claim

once he realized that he already had committed.

This is a no-brainer. Seriously bum-rush this guy.

~ DW

when you say named townie, do you mean that dyoshi mentioned that name somewhere in his posts?

hmmm....

[Eidolon]

what is a "named townie claim" ?

[Eidolon]

ohh.. nevermind. disregard.

[Eidolon]

oh my god

I skimmed over that bit.

VOTE: DEASWAVE

He doesn't know all vanilla churchgoers have names.

KILL IT

true dat.

his post makes more sense now. his wording was so weird... i'd say that's pretty strong reasoning.

vote: deaswave

[Eidolon]

true dat.

his post makes more sense now. his wording was so weird... i'd say that's pretty strong reasoning.

vote: deaswave

So the fact that 2 of 2 Vanilla Town players have flipped with names has no impact on your reasoning?

Same question to Amrun.

yes but it's possible that he forgot that part, or just looked at the dead role in green without paying attention to the names.

it's more likely that if he had a vt pm, he would just say that seil went with a vanilla claim.

why say "named townie claim"

its just such strange word choice...??

[Eidolon]

actually, i see a flaw in my reasoning.

unvote.

i'd like a claim from deas though to be honest.

[Eidolon]

MOI, i've never seen anyone use that phrase before.

if it's a common site term, then it's less suspicious.

[Eidolon]

DW, the case on him is legit. I think just about everyone in the game questioned this, and that was the motivation i saw behind it as well. i asked him about it in 812. seil never responded to it, just gave out more random info of his claim.

anyways, i want to give him the benefit of the doubt because he said he'd be back to post more today.

he's at l-2 so i want to wait for his response before voting. there is no need to rush this.

Amrun, do you think seil is town? if so, why?

[Eidolon]

Sorry, I had no idea who my person was. I wiki'd the name, saw it came from the film Dogma, and basically left it at that. I thought the name would be enough to prove I was town.

This doesn't make any sense to me. I figured mafia should know this as well. The movies are in the pm's....

but you completely ignored the point everyone has been asking about why you said your claim would clear you, and then you claim VT.

You've got to be scum

Vote: Seilkops

.

this puts him at l-1

[Eidolon]

Sorry. you did answer the question, it was overshadowed by the fail of a sentence in front of it... but it still doesn't make sense. why would a name clear you? wtf?

[Eidolon]

Maaaaan Eidolon's ISO is bad.

We can talk about it, if you want.

[Eidolon]

siighhh.... *drumroll...* please be scum.

[Eidolon]

yeah probably, moi's point about the way scum didn't react to the seil wagon in the beginning makes sense, plus the strange way empking interacted with seil. even though seil had enough scummy merits on his own, that kinda seals the deal.

if seil flips scum, i will be very happy that i made it through the game w/o being lynched and was only on scum lynches. if not then hopefully i can prove myself tomorrow. i'll probably look over everyone's iso again, i really have no idea who else it might be.

[Eidolon]

Hmm, i was actually thinking about AP too.

[Eidolon]

Phone low battery. Dw and eid pushing me probably doesnt come from scum. Esp eid.

This comment is weird to me?

"they are town for pushing me" immediately makes me think "they are correct in pushing me" ?

Please explain.

I'll post more analysis later. I really have to wrap my head around this game a bit more.

[Eidolon]

Phone low battery. Dw and eid pushing me probably doesnt come from scum. Esp eid.

This comment is weird to me?

"they are town for pushing me" immediately makes me think "they are correct in pushing me" ?

Please explain.

I'll post more analysis later. I really have to wrap my head around this game a bit more.

actaully, nevermind ap, you did explain it.

[Eidolon]

i dunno, i don't think deas' change in opinion is really all that suspicious. seems like scum would have motivation to be more consistent in their reads when it comes to players who aren't high mislynch targets. I went after amrun for a while too but dropped my read. AP, is this your main reason of suspecting deas? is he your top scumread?

I still remember how deas asked who i wanted to vote out of [amrun, empking, someone else i believe?] voted with me, and shortly after i changed my vote and went with mae, deas did the same. deas what made you switch off of amrun at that point?

it's difficult to evaluate two players with one screen name. i think timing is one thing though that is pivitol in looking back on scumreads which is one of the main things that set me off on deas.

I'm just kind of thinking out loud, i will probably do a more in depth overlook within the next couple of days.

[Eidolon]

Hmm, it's possible, but IIRC, mae was not present for the end of day 1.

Okay. her last post was 465. Around that time, amrun was a counter wagon.

She stopped posting so i see no connection between her and the iceguy wagon.

Seems like the partner of someone who's not posting would want to bus here?

The people on maes wagon were tierce, me, amrun, deas and MOI.

Dease, you really don't think someone was busing mae? Even though she wasn't really defending herself, which means a likely lynch was inevitable?

Well, according to your theory though, Mae should have voted amrun for preservation, not Iceguy, so i think it's more logical to look there than at iceguys wagon.

If i'm missing something, feel free.

[Eidolon]

To me the most logical thing for a scum team is to have one person on the wagon and one person off.

I'm really not sure if this theory is backed by any statistical analysis, but it makes sense to me that both empking and AP would not choose to be off of mae's wagon.

[Eidolon]

I'm wifoming hard here, i realize. I'd like some others thoughts on the analysis of mae's wagon.

[Eidolon]

AP, i agree with your analysis on the wagons. I think it's more likely that someone bused there.

Why do you think it's amrun? she WAS the counterwagon to Mae for a good portion of day 1 which i think helps to clear her.

I see what you are saying about rc's wagon though.

I know i need to read back over day 1 but it's so fricken long. Maybe i'll just do a few ISO's on ap, amrun, and deas. Though I'm still leaning more town on amrun.

Would like to hear more from MOI and Tierce. They are the two that are considered most likely town right now so we need their input!

[Eidolon]

Oh, AP, to answer your question: I wondered why you focused on that for Deaswave. Like i said it didn't seem like a big issue to me. But seeing as how you are suspecting it's amrun, it's not that relevant.

[Eidolon]

AP, regarding the deas thing, like i said, i was wondering if that was your main reason for suspecting him because i didn't think it was that good of a reason. Had it been a sub- argument, or something you were trying to clear up on the side of your main suspicion, it wouldn't have been as important, because it wasn't an important argument to begin with. you essentially agree with me on that now, but are calling me scummy for mentioning it?

About the zyrc thing, i thought it was scummy because it seemed fake. he was telling her that he didn't like her vote because she didn't give a reason, which isn't scummy, especially at the beginning of the game when pressure is trying to be formed. he knew i was town which was why he was defending me. i'm always suspicious of people who try to subtly buddy me, especially early on, though that wasn't my only reason for what i found wrong in his post.

[Eidolon]

MOI, you mentioned something about looking at motivation, and I agree. I think AP's refusal to lynch mae was more town motivated. It could be a risky mafia move but it seemed more town.

I think deaswave's switch was more mafia motivated because he switched at a time where mae's lynch seemed pretty apparent. I also mentioned a few times that he followed me onto amrun, and then onto mae. At the point that he changed his vote, amrun wagon was waning and mae's was waxing so the opportunity to bus would have been right around then.

When i switched off of amrun, it still had plenty of people on, so I easily could have stayed there and kept attacking her if i was scum. I think when i put my vote on mae, votes were pretty much stagnated, and i helped to build momentum back on it, which is more town motivated than scum motivated.

Soooo.. i'm leaning deas for that and what else i have said today about the wagons. Could be AP maybe because i have decent townreads on everyone else, though i'm not completely sold on amrun either.

I don't have much more time to defend myself, but AP you've got it wrong. I've pretty much already responded to the points you brought up at some time or another, but i'll do it again if needed. I'll be back hopefully sometime today to post more.

[Eidolon]

Also, you say i'm scum for not going after tierce, but i did slight fos tierce yesterday and her response to me seemed townie enough to where i dropped it. Basically, if she makes it to mylo/lylo, she should be looked at very thoroughly. and i would like her to post more, because we don't have much to work with if that does happen, plus she might have good leads if she is town, which i've tried to get from her today.

And i think we should def. wait to hear more from her today before lynching anyone.

[Eidolon]

Also, you are misrepping my question to tierce, btw.

I wanted to know why she called seil's behavior silly (or rather, odd enough to warrant suspicion at the rvs stage) AND THEN say my vote was unnecessary.

I wasn't just asking her why it was unnecessary.

I was asking her to explain the contradiction in her stance.

[Eidolon]

ITT Eidolon pretends scum never bus.

way to disregard everything i've been saying, and oversimplify my defense.

[Eidolon]

What if its Tierce? Just gonna drop that bombshell on everyone. And yes I've been contributing to my other games way more than here. Don't care. Yall are lurkers. Im going to ISO her tomorrow. DW too.

I said that yesterday and got sh!t for it.

I mean, the thing is, seems like if a mafia has a plan set, they would bus their buddy with full force.

Motivation isn't strong for a day 1 lynch that could have been a townie, but it's a possibility.

[Eidolon]

Eidolon:
1. Did you bus Zyrc?
2. Do you find it odd how many townies have been posting recently?

1. yessss of course
2. not sure how many townies have been posting recently. but on my end, i've been seriously waiting for more of tierce's input before coming to a conclusion. i think this might be the general consensus and why the game is stalling.

Also, i want to buddy up to you hehe and answer moi's question: I like you!! you're fun to play with.

Btw, i still think it's possible that you are scum, and these questions are leading to get all the townies thinking that tierce is scum for holding the game up.

But i also have reasons to think deas is scum.

[Eidolon]

Now that you say it, i really do think you could be right. i think i said something yesterday to the degree of "tierce is coasting through the game due to her mae bus"

At any rate, I'll get behind this push. Tierce is the one slot that hasn't had much input since day 1, so I think she deserves some pressure.

Vote: Tierce.

And yeah, she mentioned a busy schedule, and i understand that, i really do. But when you have time to come in and post coaching type things about claims, you obviously have read enough to where you can offer SOME OPINIONS ON YOUR SCUMSPECTS.

[Eidolon]

Thigs i notice about tierce's iso:

- She pushed hard on me an rapid from a very early point. Not really scumhunting. Like seriously... main target being the newbs? mafia tactic 101.

- She didn't bus mae until she started taking heat from AP about her extended attack on RC after he claimed. Man, her switch to mae looks really opportunistic here. "oh well, my first lynch didn't pan out. i'll just bus my buddy instead."

- She KNOWS Seilkop's alignment with an extremely little amount of input, from the very beginning of the game. doesn't waver on this read or question seil whatsoever (Even goes so far as to omgus us all when we lynched her while she wasn't here to prevent that) another mafia 101 tactic.

[Eidolon]

lynched him* >_<

[Eidolon]

MOI, thoughts on tierce?

[Eidolon]

I'll respond to tierce's post later. it's mostly just tierce twisting things and wifoming. the kind of attack i would expect from scum, to be honest. (focusing on minor details to zone in on someone without even looking at the bigger picture, wagon dynamics, motivations that can already be analysed such as behavior with conf scum rather than speculative motivations like who would end up in lylo, etc.)

[Eidolon]

Tierce:

I really hate big quote-by-quote responses, so I’ll respond to your points in a (hopefully) organized way without the quotes.

1. I agree that you asking for an extension and pushing the mae lynch instead of amrun gives you town points. I even mentioned at some point that you seemed town for defending amrun. However, I don’t put it past a smart scum to take the plan to bus a partner. If they were to make that decision, and they are a good player as obviously you are, they wouldn’t do it half ass. They would do it full force to get the town points. And if a partner is doing some scummy things that will likely get them lynched, I see no reason not to get those town points as early as possible. Bussing is possible and I don’t get any town vibes from you since day 1. You’ve been coasting since then, you know it. You attacked amrun in a personal way for being busy. If it was truly personal, it could have been said after the game in the thread or in pm, but instead you use it as a way to make you sound genuine without getting into the game. I mean, it could be genuine, and if you are town I’m really sorry for making this accusation, but it just reads as an excuse to get out of playing to help the town, to me, because you don’t say much related to the game at all.

2. You say that I was sheeping my townreads rather than going for a scum read, but you are misrepping a lot of what I said in that day period. First of all, I was suspicious of zyrconium from the get-go, and my scumread on amrun turned into a slight town/null read. So it was not just sheeping my town reads, it was a mix of both, which I said in my vote for mae. I was the FIRST person to catch zyrconium. My back and forth on reads day 1 is more of a town behavior. It’s difficult to get firm town reads on day one, with so many opinions and not having any flip info.

3. You pretty much only went hard after me and rapid, no one else, until mae. You even kept pushing Rapid after he claimed, which is a claim that will become obvious if untrue. Not until after you got called out for this did you start going after mae. Seems like you were just going after easy wagons, rather than scum hunting, and you were finding a bunch of minor things to twist around. Finding a bunch of stuff to pick apart without actually looking at the bigger picture is scum motivated. Scum focus on details, townies focus on the logic of the bigger picture/ poe.

4. You talk of my switching stances as if it is scum motivated. I change opinions because I’m not 100% sure on who scum is.

5. The rest is just contrived speculation. Nothing else to say.

I say we continue giving whatever more thoughts we have on the game, and once we hear from MOI, each list our top 2/3 scum suspects and decide on the best decision from there.

@ Tierce: What are your thoughts on the wagons from day 1? Were only town on me & rapid’s wagons? What about amrun’s, iceguys, and mae’s? You said AP was town in spite of defending mae. Why?AP and DW are my other scumreads besides you, so if you have info to help clear him, I’d like to hear that. Who is your second scum suspect and why? And what about empkings wagon?

What do you think of the post were I told MOI to vig kill empking instead of me, and then go after him the next day? Is that a scum or town thing to do?

[Eidolon]

This needs to die. I would power-lynch this in a heartbeat if the votes swung that way. This is so Not Town it is painful.

AGAIN – Anyone who had the power to kill at Night who doesn’t kill this (assuming Eid isn’t hung) shall be ridiculed harshly.

That's stupid. I realize i'm not being the most active or attentive player right now but that doesn't make me scum. I gave my legit thoughts. You lynch/kill players who are scum, not one's who aren't playing the most pro-town. Frankly i'm just not feeling this game very much but interest will hopefully pick up at some point.

At least i'm giving my thoughts and opinions unlike some players (Empking.) wonder why you just gloss over him but want to kill me?

I don't really want an amrun lynch anymore. Her recent reactions sound town.

I actually agree with some of tierce's points on maemuki and would be more inclined to lynch her though my scumread isn't extremely strong.

Angrypidgeon, what is scumtierce's motivation behind arguing against the amrun wagon and for a maemuki wagon?

Here you go.

[Eidolon]

lol it was genuine though. i had a scumread on empking at the time.

in the post where i voted to lynch mae, i said empking was my top scumread but i compromised for the deadline.

[Eidolon]

but ya, i did start the game out rusty. i admit that. and i'm kicking myself for playing seemingly scummy. but i'm getting used to the meta here, my game is hopefully getting better. still have a long way to go.

i think it's tierce too.

If not, i'm kind of tied between AP & DW. AP seems genuine but i'm always reluctant of someone buddying, and he's been calling everyone town but tierce. DW seems to be the second best option in regards to wagon analysis.

[Eidolon]

I really want to say AP is town, but paranoia keeps popping up.

[Eidolon]

Sure. I'm friar tuck from robin hood.

My character is actually a monk, not a pastor. just throwing that out there.

[Eidolon]

AP, don't you think we would have had better chances if empking bussed me? since i had more pressure? (not knowing that quil tracked emp at the time)

[Eidolon]

had to flip through some pages to find the name, have a lot of pm's in my inbox ^^;;

[Eidolon]

did you nameclaim yet? what's yours?

[Eidolon]

I'll keep it in mind to remember the names in the future lol.

Okay. your play today has been strong, and risky, so you get some town points.

I say a tierce wagon is a go! But still want to hear from MOI.

[Eidolon]

*cricket*

[Eidolon]

Eidosmartscum?

haha, you bet

[Eidolon]

Good game everyone

Especially AP who really pulled through in the end. I don't think we would have won this day phase if it weren't for his push.

@ DYoshi: what exactly did the exorcism do?

[Eidolon]

oh, it turns people vanilla, nevermind

PEDIT: lol i had you as town after the day phase, regardless of what tierce would have flipped. i was scared about going down too (most of the game.) i played really scummy this game too. even though i nabbed a couple scum, my bad behavior evened that out haha. i'm surprised i didn't get mislynched.