The Detectives (Game Over)

[Primate]

Evelyn.

He's suggesting randomly assigned roles, they can't claim gunsmith. Issue's the crooked cop role, they'll claim to have been targeted by one of them.

[Primate]

Yeah, sure, can't do dice tags, with you. Probably do something popcorn then, with each person picking the next to reduce any single persons influence.

[Primate]

I haven't really thought about it a great deal yet, as I'm at work today, but I feel best about leaving it to peoples own devices. I also wonder though if there's some middle ground, say assigning groups of people who can be a role. Like pick 7 people who can be gunsmith if they want to, and no-one else can. Ditto with three people and day coroner. That'd leave the scums guessing night 1, but give us a chance of weighting the town towards certain roles.

[Primate]

Er, MOI, Coron is the best player in the history of mafiascum with scumfinding powers beyond our ken. If it wasn't for this being pre-game I'd vote you for your impertinence of putting us above him.

[Primate]

Few things I think on reflection:

Any role based plans need to be incredibly vague to succeed. The scums are going to be able to select their roles after ours, so we need something than can hold up in the name of, say, three busdrivers, which I think is hard enough to not be a thing we can do (though feel free to try).

All protown roles are about the same power generally, with gunsmiths being flexy. Voyeur for clearing town. Trackers are nice for catching scum depending on the order of claiming results.

Tracked to dead player is a lot more damning than investigated player w/gun and the former should make him de facto lynch for the day whilst that latter be a relatively minor point in favour.

I'm kind of ok with randomisation. I don't think it should be forced on people, but, particularly the voyeur/tracker pair, I don't really think there's enough between them for me to begrudge someone flipping a coin if they wanted to.

[Primate]

He can't really confirm town, but if I saw, say a crooked cop on a guy I probably wouldn't pursue him any more, and I'd need something persuasive to go after him.

Also, I missed mafia couldn't stack roles, but I don't think it matters too much with regards to my point.

[Primate]

Sure.

[Primate]

I actually am not 100% with MoI's plan and there's one I prefer slightly, but I went along with it because I still like this plan and one thing worse than a suboptimal plan is people potentially dropping hints to the scum by debating, so lets figure out who's starting the popcorn (I don't mind iceguy) then ssshhhhh unless you're one doing the popcorn until we're done.

[Primate]

Erm, I think you may have misread that amrun.

[Primate]

Oh no, I did, whoops, sorry, ignore me.

[Primate]

@MOI: Basically first time I read it I missed you were suggesting that the last one here start it and thought you were just waiting until we got everyone in favour.

[Primate]

I think that one depends on the flips.

[Primate]

I've got a fairly decent opinion of moiin this game currently, but I don't think there's anything especially pro-town for a decent player suggesting the plan he suggested today.

[Primate]

If you want this done quickly and don't care about the target as much I'd be more aware of timezones for those who have them declared.

Tracker, Coron.

@MOI: Yeah, you're right. I thought Mehdi was being premature.

[Primate]

This is a prod dodge. Sorry, I've not been active the past couple of days. I have to go out now, but I'll post in a few hours when I get back.

[Primate]

I'm still not caught up, but to not stall the thread.

Submitted a tracker choice on Coron. Got back a tracker result on Amrun, who targeted Klazam.

[Primate]

So. Sorry if this appears a bit jumbled. Direct my attention to anything I missed.

@MOI: My reaction to you not including coron was a joke, it was intentionally overwrought. I joined this game to play with coron despite not really having the time to play properly, because he's still my favourite player. In terms of whether I actually think corons any good now, he was excellent, but skills atrophy and I have don't really know whether he is or not now, I imagine he probably is, but I wouldn't rely on it. I targeted him night 1 because also because I think he's relatively unlikely to be killed, both N1 and later because of his muted playstyle. As information I have a police of picking targets who aren't likely to die for a while. I don't really know most of the players in this game and the most of the ones I do know are good enough to be targeted as nightkill targets. It also doesn't hurt that I know coron doesn't really post as much as some others so I think he's a more relevant choice for a info target.

Regarding your point made in #303 about my post #60, that's entirely legitimate, and I don't know why she ignored what was a similar plan from me. At a guess I'd say it was because she didn't want to pick any more fights when she was dealing with you, but that's speculation.

It's also worth noting that I lurk heavily in all my games over the past couple of years and after being attacked for it a lot, I reckon it's not an alignment tell for me. I didn't make a peep about Amruns comments because, to be honest, I was a mildly annoyed at Amrun for making the initial comment. There isn't any point to outing that information until the alloted time or relevant individuals are getting near lynch.

Re: One of two busdriver speculation, I think it's a solid point and usable for speculation, but I want to know more about the mafia group before we do so. For instance, I would very much like to know whether they have a crooked cop. I do think that if one of the two turns up scum the other is near cert town, but other than that I don't really want to make a move on it.

I think MOI's point on Amruns mistargeting is solid and I'm annoyed I didn't pick up on that.

I'm going to post in my other game then have a think about how the roles fit together. I'm having trouble melding some of my opinions (Medhi as scummy as hell, for example), with how the nightactions went.

[Primate]

Sorry if I missed you explaining this earlier, but don't you think seeing a redirector target klazam is a mitigating factor?

[Primate]

MOD – As alluded to earlier I will be LA from today at 5PM EDT until Monday morning for normal family weekend duties.

@Primate

– I notice you have not cast a single vote all game long. At what level of information are you waiting for to actually do so?

I'm not waiting for anything. You're misreading my role in this game so far as an entirely active participant, day 1.0 in particular. Currently the person I think is most likely to be scum is amrun, who has not responded at all well to the points against her, which have been well made. I'm not voting for her because I really only got that read in my last post and I haven't made another since.

Vote Amrun

That's -1.

[Primate]

UNVOTE

Nope. I did have a look back, because I thought I'd read something to that effect but didn't see it.

[Primate]

I'm happy with going whenever. Voyeurs first is the better way round, yeah.

I tracked Medhi. I'll defer mentioning who he targetted until the end of the claims (but before he says) unless there's a desire for me not to.

[Primate]

Tracked Mehdi to quadz.

This means either you or me are lying. Both the voyeurs on him only register one tracker.

That sets up a primate or iceguy lynch as one of us is lying. If quadz is scum (and he probably is), then that's pretty much game.

Also, I'm not lying about the busdriver. There isn't any reason for me to lie, as either alignment. If I was scum and decided say there was a busdriving that happened, I could have been counterclaimed as a liar by anyone else who targetted amrun or coron, which was hardly unlikely given me being early in the claims process.

[Primate]

Unless voyeurs don't see numbers. I kind of assumed they would, but the rules don't say that. Never mind.

[Primate]

@Medhi: You can't target yourself. But other than that I'm fine with that plan.

[Primate]

Carry on reading, I think I misread the voyeur role. I think the voyeur just says "Trackers targetted this guy", not "1 Tracker targetted this guy.". If I'm wrong then one of the two of us is scum, but the role description reads as the former.

[Primate]

Not only that but Mehdi is town anyway if quadz flips scum. If mehdi were indeed roleblocked night 1 as scum, that would mean only 3 scum actions occured night 1... that's simply impossible unless Primate is lying about the bus drive. (which would make him the last scum if quadz flips scum)

The only other explanation is if nuwen and mehdi created an elaborate gambit where Nuwen only tracks mehdi and mehdi claims a roleblock on himself... that would be really stupid.

Busdrive + Redirect + RB + Kill?

[Primate]

Ah, yeah, with you.

[Primate]

I understand the plan.

[Primate]

It doesn't really matter, but weirdly Iceguy went nowhere.

[Primate]

Yeah, and that's game.

[Primate]

Scum QT. Hopefully it'll give you a bit of insight into why we picked the roles like we did.
http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/ecWMSeigdyFG

You pretty clearly outplayed us.

I'm not really annoyed with how this game ended up. I knew going in that it was going to be swingy, games with this many info role are. I think the concrete moment when we couldn't win the game anymore was the quadz investigation. I do wonder what would have happened if we'd kille medhi instead that night and had to deal with MoI the day after, whether he would have gone after syndrome or me. In the long run it wouldn't have mattered much as long as he didn't go after quadz, maybe making it the better play in retrospect. It also became a problem in the endgame, because a gunsmith can accumulate info, so I couldn't just no-kill to force the town into making their actions. Anyway.

Scum roles didn't play a huge role because of us dying so quickly, the encryptor was practically useless. Pretty much all of the scum roles that we picked are the swingy ones and we got the bad side of that. Bus driver I think isn't too bad and wasn't played too badly, it just really bit us in the ass when it was just me left. Encryptor's really weird too, having it could either win or lose us the game,

I'm happy with the fact that we didn't go for dealing with the coroner/janitor conflict. If we'd killed MoI instead of CDB, we would have ended up with three mostly useless townies, and that's good.

@Zoraster: Two things I'm curious about
1: I thought the omission of a mafia tailor or godfather type role was an interesting one, and wondered whether that was intentional and what your reasoning is.
2: Once the game gets down to one scum it's essentially unwinnable for them due to them due to the trackers and voyeurs involved, if it happens this early in the game, is this just something you thought a necessary evil, expecting it to probably happen later?

[Primate]

No mafia went gunsmith because all but one of us were in the "don't be gunsmith" group, we might have considered it otherwise.

Also, even if the scum the scum take a ninja, it's not exactly likely he'll be the one to get to endgame, chances are it's going to be one of the others. I'd give him more than the 1/4, but it's still not something to rely on.

[Primate]

It's worth noting by the way that our "just do what you want as your town role to make it plausible" plan backfired with amrun. I'm still annoyed by that.

[Primate]

It wasn't specified that we needed to do it in the QT, but we did. Considering that everyone in the scumgroup was a scumchatter who is available to talk on aim most of the time it might have helped if the mod'd allowed it.

[Primate]

Yeah, I was tempted to mention her as the exemption seeing as I hadn't seen her in there recently but I thought'd she might've missed me, as I'm not in there a lot a lot. I've definiely seen her in there though.

[Primate]

@MOI: I only used it night one. I mentioned it because if anyone else targetted coron or amrun I'd be caught in a lie, and I was the first to claim. If I was nearer the end of the claimings I probably wouldn't have mentioned it.