Mini 1442: House of Cards - GAME OVER

[Venmar]

What's up bitches, I am Remy mothafackin Danton.

[Venmar]

Was I really the only one that wanted to be Remy? My numbers were 2 and 7, and I wanted Doug, Remy, Adam in that order

[Venmar]

Why is "everyone" getting UN styled avatars? Is this a special club or something?

[Venmar]

Majiffy, my friend, I thought you don't just throw your vote around this early?

[Venmar]

Lol, hey Majiffy. Combined with me and my role, you can have 2 permanent flowchartians at all times. I can force people to sheep you

[Venmar]

I got to be Remy, my 2nd pick, AND I WILL NOM NOM on your votes scum.

I don't think FuDuzn needs a vote as a survivor

[Venmar]

So anyone else think we should use Toogelo as a cop?

[Venmar]

How would it abused? It would be obvious if the scum would try to frame the doctor target if he was targeting a town, since there would only be 1 kill during the night. Watcher can even watch the doctor... for killers?

[Venmar]

That's assuming the watcher and Toogelo are both town...

Nvm I suck.

[Venmar]

Kind my of my line of thinking, but we cannot know if you, the tracker, or the watcher are town. Alignments are randomized, which means the watcher or tracker might be scum, or both, or you. Even all three. That's the flaw in this plan i oversaw for a second.

[Venmar]

My problem with trying to break the setup is that statistically speaking at least one of the 3 roles you're talking about here is scum. No matter what we try to do to coordinate out actions, more than likely it will not work the way we intend it.

THATS THE WHOLE POINT. This could work if they were all guaranteed town, which is what I thought when i proposed the idea. In reality, a weak doctor can work like a hider as long as we have either a tracker or watcher.

[Venmar]

If Watcher is town, I am forced to confirm him as such because he will see if anyone has visited me or not.

Huh? What does he seeing who visited you have to do with you confirming him as town?

If I'm the only one town, then tracker has to confirm that the Watcher is scum, or the Watcher has to lie about someone possibly killing me.

Why would the tracker have to confirm anything? In a scenario where tracker and watcher are both scum, why wouldn't they just kill you and say someone else did it?

@ Venmar: What? We basically just same-time posted with the exact same thoughts (this won't work because we can't confirm alignment), but now you're STILL trying to push guiding the weak doctor while also enlisting the watcher/tracker?

Vote: Venmar

What, no?!?!

Holy shit can you not read??? I'm against it now

[Venmar]

I said that it would work If they were town, I think the beginning of the post says that nicely. The last sentence is me saying it would work I we had the tracker and watcher, which is not GUARANTEED.

[Venmar]

And yet you spent those posts discussing it with toog

[Venmar]

I wasn't encouraging it for a long time though?

[Venmar]

vote: aa9 [/b

[Venmar]

Missed the bracket... dam i hate phone posting. Finally home.

Vote: ArcAngel9

All hail the flowchart!
- AA9 is also really the only scummy person so far, so i'm obligated to sheep Majiffy at this time.

[Venmar]

Yeah...

Your point? Day has started... not many scumreads...whats new?

[Venmar]

Desperado looks like he's trying really hard to paint my idea as scummy even though it really isn't, because I feel like he's really reaching for reasons to keep his vote on me. Jebus on the other hand makes no sense because he voted me, but yet he doesn't like Desperado, but from the looks of it is sheeping him, which really doesn't make any sense.

They're both iffy, but I want to see where this AA9 wagon will take us first.

[Venmar]

No particip...

No, get out. Get out right now.

[Venmar]

+ Town Points to Paschendale for being above average intelligence and actually reading.

[Venmar]

I can always steal FuDuzns vote...

He isn't a threat and i'm considering anyone going for him right now of being opportunistic.

[Venmar]

I am not reading all of this.

Tomorrow.

We both know this is not the worst of scenarios

[Venmar]

I want Jebua to explain why he didn't like Desperado and Toogeloo, and why he voted for me considering said suspicions.

[Venmar]

It was intentional.

[Venmar]

I find that Majorly Iffy but at the same time very appealing.

Also, the No-Context thread just got bigger. ( Mwahahahahahaha, take that )

[Venmar]

My vote just keeps improving it seems

[Venmar]

AA9's vote is really baseless in reality. All she is doing is OMGUS'ing and discrediting Majiffy, and hoping her insults stick as reasons rather than actual scumhunting.

[Venmar]

I would switch to Jebus if it wasn't too early to call him out for lurking/active lurking.

My vote is switching if he keeps dodging the thread, my question, the suspicion put on him, and the game in general.

[Venmar]

Ok, Choo Choo motherfuckers

Vote: Jebua

[Venmar]

I would switch to Jebus if it wasn't too early to call him out for lurking/active lurking.

My vote is switching if he keeps dodging the thread, my question, the suspicion put on him, and the game in general.

Any consideration for Lurker? He's literally made 4 posts - 2 were pregame, and 2 were votes with either no reason, or the reason of sheeping. At this point I'd justify that as a scummy form of lurking.

- No because i'm not voting for Jebua just because he is active lurking, but also because of said things in the last line of my post.

[Venmar]

Now we all know that's a logical fallacy, Majiffy. Just because he's feeding your ego doesn't mean he isn't

trying to sneak onto a town lynch

with a lame excuse like sheeping.

[Venmar]

ZzZzZzZzZz wake me up when we start lynching my scum reads or something.

Wasn't Jebus one of them?

[Venmar]

Doesn't matter for me, if I am forced to steal someone's vote that I think is town, I can always just proxy their vote back.

( Only if i'm not feeling like an evil and selfish grinch )

[Venmar]

Also my plan of Venmar stealing FuD's vote is foolproof. I wouldn't have suggested it otherwise.

Lol what? That was

my

plan, what is this.

[Venmar]

Someone explain to me why HP is scum because i'm not seeing it right now.

[Venmar]

This is all so touching and sweet to see... but can we perhaps lynch something now?

Day Skip should never be used, Night skip should. Debate when, not why.

[Venmar]

Your Day Skip idea isn't TERRIBLE, but let's be honest here. In a game where... well... nobody can be trusted ( funny how that contrasts with the TV show this is based off ) I don't find your plan very rewarding.

1) Narrows down the lynching pool
2) Gives us information
3) Allows us time to gather information (tracker, watcher, etc whatever information roles we have)

Probably more, but those are just off the top of my head.

1) This is true, but if there is a successful vig kill by Arc that misses scum, then by the next day we already got 4 deaths, one of which could be a possible town death based on our day 1 lynch. If Toog hits scum, then we already got 5 dead by next day, most of whom will be town if not all. That's a large pile. In the scenario that there are just 3 deaths, then that's the most favorable imo.
2) To some degree, I agree with this.
3) This is extremely unreliable considering a) Our investigation roles could be scum, and b) The scum can just decide to spend their kills killing off the investigation roles instead of going for sensible or connective kills. In which case, getting info can be harder.

On the other hand, a night skip denies the scum of their factional kill, and lets us root out any buddies/bussers of a scumflip or to find scum on a town mislynch before a town leader is killed or a player is framed in some fashion. I find that the pros of the night skip > pros of the day skip.

[Venmar]

Okay. I'm sorry.

[Venmar]

I think HP is better served to be checked by Toog, I really feel like he could be scum, but not i'm not willing to wagon hp anytime soon.

Jebus still seems like the right wagon... Majiffy please come and butter me up with your presence.

[Venmar]

1) Why not

Jebus, better wagons and all that.

[Venmar]

[Venmar]

Probably.

[Venmar]

Can we have some more votes on Jebus?

[Venmar]

He's not doing anything, he's been promising content forever now and hasn't even addressed the suspicion on him... the guys needs more pressure at the very least.

[Venmar]

He's not doing anything, he's been promising content forever now and hasn't even addressed the suspicion on him... the guys needs more pressure

at the very least.

Not to mention L-1 > L-2

[Venmar]

Dude, if you think Jebus is town and shouldn't be wagoned then just say that instead of tip toeing around it with these dumb questions. Why don't you seemingly to want me to pressure Jebus?

[Venmar]

Then read my posts, I want pressure at

the very least

, which obviously implies that I am up for

lynching him.

I even said that I prefer his wagon over HP, which also means I am willing to lynch him. The context is all there, now either lynch Jebus or have a nice day.

[Venmar]

Thezmon's #550 is pretty scummy to me at a glance.

[Venmar]

Venmar are you looking for a two story or a ranch?

An Igloo

[Venmar]

Two Story Igloo

[Venmar]

Everyone that is protecting Jebua solely because of his powerrole is probably pretty dumb and doesn't understand the concept of smalltown.

[Venmar]

V/LA until Monday...

[Venmar]

What do you propose we talk about? because if I had another vote, I'd be hammering right now.

[Venmar]

I stole FuDuzn's vote both Night 1 and Night 2.

Need to reread a bit, been a while since the game was actually in day :/

[Venmar]

I myself think Thezmon is scummy.. there was a page where I was really bugged by what he had to say.

[Venmar]

Yeah, #550 in particular,

I also do find myself nodding at Tog's viewing of Aj's post, though I'm not ready to settle on a vote for him. At this point, I'd probably be okay with a policy lynch on Jebus/Lurker. I'd at least like to see the less useful role get taken out if we are going to lynch the lurker anyway. If you can choose between 10 dollars and 100, why take the 10 when you can just as easily have the 100?

In other words, I don't see any town application with Lurker's vote, so I say: Sheep me on a policy lynch. We all know he's a chronic lurker anyway.

VOTE: Lurker

- This part particularly stood out. I don't like how Thezmon openly agreed to the case Toogleo made on AJ previously, but settles down for a policy and lurker lynch instead. He expresses approval of a nicely laid out case, but says he isn't ready to settle. Instead, he settles with a policy lynch instead in Lurker. Even though Jebus was town, Thezmon dodges his lynch by writing him off as more important just because of his role, which I find a folly reason considering this is smalltown.

Bad gut vibes all around, the above looks opportunistic and "safe" rather than sticking to actual logic.

{Aj, Lurker, DDD, Pasch}
This will be my pool of lynchables to consider over the next two day phases.

- On the other hand, this also seems like a decent list. Perhaps not Paschendale though, I personally think he has been pretty townie so far.

Man.. I got these two votes... but who to spend them on?

[Venmar]

Majiffy has my attention.

[Venmar]

Vote1: Aj the Epic

I'll hold off the second vote for now.

[Venmar]

I haven't used both of my votes have I Fuddy , who is to say the one I didn't use is yours

Also, if you had your old avatar with the old dude and the telephone, I think I found the real you:

[Venmar]

That sounded a bit OMGUSy if I had to say so myself.

[Venmar]

Yeah my thing was directed at AJ not Paschendale.

Vote2: Aj the Epic

[Venmar]

Jiffy come on, if Venmar is gonna screw me out of my Passion vote, don't you do the same.

Fine.

Vote2: Paschendale

[Venmar]

Okay that's all you get.

Unvote2: Paschendale

[Venmar]

Need to mull over AJ's large post, I agree that it's one of his best posts yet.

Unvote1: Aj the Epic

@Majiffy - I asked you this before, but what are your thoughts on Thezmon? If Aj won't work, how about Thezmon, because he's been pretty scummy this game.

[Venmar]

@Majiffy - I asked you this before, but what are your thoughts on Thezmon? If Aj won't work, how about Thezmon, because he's been pretty scummy this game.

What makes you say that? The Lurker wagon?

I already said why I thought you are scum before?

[Venmar]

Idk, i'm a but beffumbled myself. ( Is that a word )

I still support and want a Thezmon lynch, and I also support the DDDP lynch from his vote right here:

Jiffy come on, if Venmar is gonna screw me out of my Passion vote, don't you do the same.

I'll stand for the dwarf.

VOTE: Paschendale

- DDDP has had ( from what I could find ) a non-existent relationship with Paschendale. He never called him town, never called him scum. For him to come out of the blue randomly and throw down a vote on Paschie without previous mention of him, for reasons above that look a lot of like either buddying or sheeping, is suspect.
( Also, I get the GoT reference )

With exception, of course, DDD has had one interaction with Paschie in #598, but that looked a lot like a null if not friendly remark towards him.

I also, upon ISO, found DDD's interaction with me regarding pushing Jebus very unnecessary ( the one about pressuring an lynching and whatnot ).

[Venmar]

I also, upon ISO, found DDD's interaction with me regarding pushing Jebus very

unnecessary

( the one about pressuring an lynching and whatnot ).

I'm sorry, in the future I won't try and figure out the intent of people's actions. I thought that was a fundamental part of mafia but it appears I was mistaken. Just a question though, should I assume the intent to be whatever is most convenient for me or should I just accept whatever the person is saying at face value as their intent?

- I didn't say figuring out the intention of people's action is a bad thing, which is why I bolded a portion of my post. Your "figuring out intent" was simply unnecessary, when pressuring and lynching are so closely knitted it makes no difference. Now that I think about it, if I was "just pressuring" then you revealing it did not help my cause, and I find it anti-town at the very least.

Your whole response was just full of non-serious sarcasm, and I don't know how to take that to be honest.

[Venmar]

Vote1: DDD

[Venmar]

Funny how the vote magically compelled you to appear.

[Venmar]

Wu.. how could you expect me to research such a detail like that?

[Venmar]

Wu.. how could you expect me to research such a detail like that?

Click ISO, look at date/times of posts, very difficult I understand. At the very least if you don't think of something like that phrase your issue as a question instead of an accusation so instead of being wrong you're just curious. Of course, it's harder for me to mock you in that case but I'd still give it a go so don't go making things easier on my account.

No, I mean, I don't see anybody actually picking up on that detail without you pointing it out. Like seriously, I feel like you expect way too much of me and others.

[Venmar]

@Majiffy - I asked you this before, but what are your thoughts on Thezmon? If Aj won't work, how about Thezmon, because he's been pretty scummy this game.

What makes you say that? The Lurker wagon?

I already said why I thought you are scum before?

I was clarifying for myself. Also to add in that I didn't feel that me trying to create a more favorable PL when I had already stated I would support the Jebus wagon if it came down to it was actually scummy. Maybe I'm wrong, though.

Your odd support of the Lurker Wagon when I feel you had a much better reason to pursue Aj or Jebus AT THE TIME is part of the reason, yes.

[Venmar]

Deadline is coming near and I am becoming slowly disconnected from this game like others...

Really, DDD's last post didn't really convince me of Pasch scum at all, nor has he really had a townie looking post yet.

Vote2: DDDP

[Venmar]

You haven't really taken apart all of my arguments, i would consider that a hyperbole, and you're just making yourself sound very defensive by that statement alone.

You have a more survivalistic attitude right now when really you should be trying to convince me of Paschendale scum.

[Venmar]

^ That was DDD, not Lurker. Damn ninja.

[Venmar]

I am really confused right now.

[Venmar]

I can settle for a Lurker lynch if it comes down to deadline I guess

[Venmar]

I don't want to end up with a no lynch either... and I might have time constraints later on.

Intent to Hammer

[Venmar]

You're right TripleDDDSingleP

Vote: Lurker

[Venmar]

I still possess FuDuzn's vote.

I need to recollect my thoughts about this game.

[Venmar]

Paschendale that case is pretty bad. You can't expect someone to know the alignment of another player 100%, it's unreasonable to have such high expectation of players like that, even if you think said player is really good and is a leader. Leading a town lynch, in the wake of a deadline, is not unreasonable, and while it was a shame, it's not a very damming scumtell considering you were a part of the wagon yourself :/. It's extremely hypocritical to call Majiffy scum for starting and leading the Lurker wagon, and taking a part in it yourself. That's pretty scummy.

I honestly believe you should have a better motive and reason to pursue the DDDP scumread further rather than Majiffy. Lurker became the counter-wagon to my DDDP wagon, have you not considered that?

My Paschendale townread is kind of dissolving...

[Venmar]

I agree.

Vote1: Paschendale

Vote2: Paschendale

[Venmar]

Welp, my bad.

[Venmar]

I am Town.

Seriously.

[Venmar]

That would've worked if I was scum :/

I think you misread the QT Majiffy. I didn't say I was scum, when I said " I have been a naughty boy ", I was making a reference to my hammer.

FuDuzn gets to keep his vote.. I decided to not votesteal in shame of my bad hammer yesterday.

[Venmar]

I never said that Majiffy...

[Venmar]

I never said what Majiffy claimed I said.

I'm not scum, and the scum is either DDD for reasons I said before, and/or Majiffy for trying to set me up for the easy scum win. His lack of vote on me, despite him claiming that I claimed scum just shows that he is making it up and is checking first for how people would respond.

Lynch the liar.

Vote: Majiffy

[Venmar]

I didn't take anybody's vote, just look at the votecount at daybreak, it's not that hard ffs.

[Venmar]

Why would I try to steal DDDP's vote as scum hoping for an easy win, knowing he could commute? Why wouldn't I just steal AJ's or Majiffy's for a guaranteed steal and a win? This doesn't add up logically.

[Venmar]

Venmar is town.

[Venmar]

A) I'm not dumb B) Thezmon didn't direct me.

[Venmar]

You guys speak with so much certainty and confidence. If you really think i'm scum then grow a pair and vote me.

PEdit: Vote me then

[Venmar]

That question is so dumb.

Let me rephrase it:

" End discussion now ( preferred ) or have discussion? "

Stop testing the water on my lynch, scummy. Aj's flip on my read was so sudden, and so scummy. Guys, he started off supporting Venmar-Town really hard. Visually and on the outside, AJ was a big supporter of Venmar town, but on the inside his read was paper thin. Seriously, if he thought I was actually town his read on me wouldn't crumble so easily and so quickly.

Majiffy and Thezmon for scum. I vote yes.

[Venmar]

Majiffy and AJ I mean.

[Venmar]

You know what, that warrants a change of vote. We should have never given up on lynching AJ in the first place.

Vote: Aj the Epic

[Venmar]

If you were town and actually believed that, you would be voting for me instead of stalling and testing the waters. You don't let a "confirmed scum" live, that's retarded from a town POV, which you don't seem to have. You claim to have me pinned as scum, the town mentality would be to vote me.

[Venmar]

End the day now or later?

The only remaining question is when we lynch you.

Who's the liar now?

[Venmar]

I am not lying though?

[Venmar]

Thezmon didn't order me, and I didn't go to DDDP, I DID NOTHING.

Majiffy and AJ are the last scum :/

[Venmar]

At least AJ finally voted me.

Go for Majiffy or AJ tomorrow plox.

[Venmar]

Venny is sad.

[Venmar]

Pretty sure I said we should have killed Thezmon before ArcAngel so he wouldn't screw me up... but noooooooooooo.

So sloppy, i must admit, but this has been one of my better scum games yet in terms of day play, minus the unneeded cockiness at the end.

[Venmar]

Venmar has learned a valuable lesson today. Never admit you're scum until the game is announced over.

Amen