Mini 1427 - Slenderman Mafia - Game Over

[Yates]

Rolecop makes some sense due to the caps lock "thinks" in Yates post

What? Because I would advertise like that? No. When I said "thinks" like that I was playing a game with Mhork and SP to see if they would try something. But that whole gambit took a dump when everyone decided to wait for night actions and claims. Thus, we have no interactions from today that weren't informed by actions and claims. Which is not ideal but that's what we have.

[Yates]

I pretty much dismissed that anyway.

Okay. But you see why I had to say something, right? That can easily be viewed as a discredit. And at this point, I think my role has been all but verified unless You and MM are my scum buddies. So if you are a hider like you say, my no result is pretty much proof I am a cop like *I* say. That's why I was a little confused by that statement.

[Yates]

I mean, I'm glad you didn't. Still seems like it's worth mentioning. Quite the coincidence though.

Why is it worth mentioning if you claim to be a Town Hider???

[Yates]

Sorry, as usual I'm LA over the weekend.

That said, this post needs to be addressed immediately:

The people getting snuggly in the flavor was me hiding behind you

. That wasn't mentioned in the flavor when I targetted AJ. I assume since it was included, it was significant. There was a kill when I targetted AJ, it wasn't mentioned. There was no kills the last two nights, when I targetted you. The flavor had us bumming together both nights. Easy to draw a connection.

Look, we need to stop this line of thought right now. Mods do NOT hint at night actions in flavor posts. I was in Rocky Horror - WITH PIGGY - where we tried to draw conclusions about who scum might be based on flavor. Roles and Characters were truly random and it didn't end well for the Town. Zar had to go back and add this to each death scene "* BELOW SCENE CONTAINS NO CLUES, JUST FLAVOR *"

The fact that Piggy - THIS game's Mod - was a victim of "flavor death" has me fairly confident she wouldn't drop game clues in her flavor either.

[Yates]

Yates, explain why you think you got no result on both levi and Ree.

2 Options on Levi:
1. Traitor result is inconclusive
2. I was blocked

2 Options on Ree:
1. Ree is a Hider and hid so I got no result
2. I was blocked

The result on MM was very clearly Town so I have that as a baseline.

[Yates]

Let's talk balance. 1 scum or two?

I have been thinking two this whole time. However, the presence of a Traitor could indicate that scum were slightly underpowered in terms of numbers. If the last scum is a GF or a RB type of role I suppose 1 could work for balance. It's weird that there has only been ONE kill unless scum have to decide between a kill and an RB?

One thing that is bugging me is that there are a lot of ways to avoid getting NKed this game if you are both being truthful.
- There was the night we commuted - which takes away both an investigation and a scum kill. So that's weighted in favor of the Town.
- I'm BP. So that's in favor of the Town.
- You claim to be a hider. That's in favor of the Town.
- AJ claims to be BP. That's in favor of the Town.
- The Traitor outed himself. That's in favor of the Town.
- The Traitor outed a scum member. That's in favor of the Town.

We are missing something. Is it possible the last "scum" is an arsonist? I may be ignoring my own advice and reading too far into flavor [library fire] but that would ALSO explain a no kill and would have us in a WAY worse situation than we think we are in...

[Yates]

We have no firefighter though. don't they go together?

*shrug* No idea. My only experience with an arsonist was on a different site and there was no firefighter in that game. The trick was the arsonist had to be alive at night towards the end because their last night action has to be "light match" or something like that.

[Yates]

The first game that shows up in a search with an arsonist is this one:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... &start=775

No firefighter.

[Yates]

This one had a firefighter:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 700#426700

[Yates]

This one did not:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=24640

[Yates]

Okay. I'm done looking at this stuff.

[Yates]

Alright. I'll investigate SP.

MM is conf.
Ree is all but Conf.
I have had a Town read on AJ since Day 1.
That leaves SP and Mhork

I happen to agree with MM's sentiment that Mhork is the common scum denominator. If I had my druthers, we would have lynched Mhork over HD and I'm still confused as to why that even happened. I am feeling less and less comfortable with a no lynch as paranoia starts settling in.

[Yates]

Obviously, I'd support a Mhork lynch today.

[Yates]

AJ?
MM?

Thoughts on Mhork vs SP?

[Yates]

Yates, what's your paranoia about?

General end game paranoia where I start wifoming/over-speculating to death.

[Yates]

VOTE: No Lynch

My final scum suspects in order:
Mhork
SP
Ree

AJ/MM

[Yates]

So... uh... SP is Town, guys.

[Yates]

Did you investigate Mhork or SP, Yates?

Weren't we crystal clear on who I was to investigate last night?

[Yates]

If Mhork is scum, why target SP?

1. In case you hid behind him
2. Scum knew I wasn't going to investigate them so they killed my investigation target
3. Creates wifom ["Is Yates really a cop? We all know SP is Town now"]
4. Makes me question my AJ read

[Yates]

I hid behind Mhork if that helps anyone.

What is supposed to happen if you hide behind scum? You die or nothing?

[Yates]

FoS: Mhork

This should have been done when you guys made the decision to kill HD instead.

Actually, I need to read in to how that happened a little better...

[Yates]

But seriously, what's the case on me? I'm not buying PoE. What's the real deal?

For the answer to this question, let me get out my ouija board and communicate with the dead...

And how am I obvscum, Human Destroyer, pray tell?

You mean other than your hard push of levi, then an abrupt 180 when he claimed

traitor

of all things?

[Yates]

Sorry guys - been out of commission for a couple of days. I'll get caught up shortly.

[Yates]

Why are you hard defending Mhork so vehemently, Ree? Do you know something we don't? I feel like this is what SP did the other day and all it accomplished was allowing Mhork to go free while getting SP and HD dead.

[Yates]

Alright. I just want to make sure we don't start getting sidetracked into lynching AJ *over* Mhork. That's where I felt this discussion was headed.

[Yates]

Also no plan for when I get NKed.

[Yates]

There aren't really flaws in the plan so much as in the way you are claiming [or think] your role works.

1. If AJ is still BP and you hide behind him and AJ gets targeted for a NK you would both live. I don't know if I just messed up some screwy wifom attempt by you to have AJ targeted by scum or if you don't know how a hider works but it's too late in the game for gambits and our cards needs to be on the table because Town confusion is not good for us right now.

2. An investigation on AJ with you hiding behind him is still just an investigation on AJ. Your presence in his "house," so to speak, is irrelevant.

Please feel free to have mod verify these as fact if at all possible.

[Yates]

You're plan is bad. And it doesn't make sense. You're gonna kill the town, Ree.

What's your case on AJ?

[Yates]

So... poe?

[Yates]

Follow up - if there are two scum left, who is scum with AJ?

[Yates]

Is there anything else we really need to discuss? I'd like for this to be resolved no later than Friday so we can have the weekend without worrying about deadline.

[Yates]

I feel like that should give AJ, MM, and Mhork enough time to figure out "what to do." I already know I'm voting for Mhork barring some unimaginable turn of events.

[Yates]

actually, I want to

VOTE: Ree

Is this just gut?

What do you make of the fact his claim lines up with my search results?

[Yates]

Hey MM? Point of order, here. Mhork and AJ are each voting for each other. It takes three to lynch. If there are two scums left, wouldn't one of them be dead unless one of them is scum?

This means we either have 1 scum left OR one of Mhork/AJ *has* to be scum. I think this again rules out Ree as a suspect.

[Yates]

No, Yates. Fuck that tell. Speedlynches at LyLo very rarely happen. Even if scum has say chat, it doesn't happen.

Except everyone has posted. Take a look...

[Yates]

I'll vote tomorrow before I leave work if nothing has changed. I don't suspect anything will. I am curious to see MM's response to 1948, though.

[Yates]

How does this clear Ree?

Math.

There are 5 of us left
It takes 3 to lynch

AJ is voting Mhork
Mhork is voting AJ

What that proves is that if there are two scum left, it isn't two of Yates, MM, and/or Ree.

[Yates]

Roughly three hours and I'll vote.

[Yates]

VOTE: Lord Mhork

Hopefully that's game.

[Yates]

Last visited:
Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:15 pm

[Yates]

Mr_Ree - it's very important that you answer this question honestly in your next post: did you hide behind AJ last night?

[Yates]

Honestly? No. I wifom'd myself into thinking it was Ms. M (because of posts like this ^)and no actioned to prevent the double kill.

YEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSS!

I didn't know how to tell you NOT to hide last night but hoped you would realize that hiding behind AJ would screw my result. Night result:

GUILTY

.

Good game, AJ and Ree. This was as close as it gets!

VOTE: AJ

Game. Over.

[Yates]

UNVOTE: AJ

[Yates]

How would you know if Ree hid behind you or not? Also, how would he know what my result would be? ALSO, have you ever heard of a SCUM hider?

[Yates]

VOTE: AJ

Game.

[Yates]

Oh yeah. Scum wins.

[Yates]

I'm not messing with you. And, thanks!

[Yates]

By the way, you should have known Mhork was innocent when you hid behind him on Night 5 and didn't die. But I was playing dumb.

[Yates]

Oh God. I can't wait to see people raging in the Dead QT!!

[Yates]

I got some lucky breaks, AJ, and they all ultimately stacked up against you. I think you played your hand about as well as you could. I'm guessing it would have been neigh impossible to convince Ree that *I* was the last scum.

[Yates]

GG Yates, I had you pinned.

You did! You really did! You had me sweating. That's ultimately why I chose you as my "innocent" Town. I figured you'd at least give me a chance to misstep if I claimed you were innocent.

you played an amazing game

Thanks! I'm pretty stoked about this win. I honestly believe this has been my best performance to date.

[Yates]

Like I said, isn't really deserved because town was total shit.

Awe come on. Don't be like that. In the end even *YOU* didn't have me as a scum suspect.

Spoiler:

Yates claimed cop and you don't really lynch a claimed cop. Ree claimed hider and this was backed by Yates. Unless they're both scum, I find their claims fairly reasonable.

Plus, this is how close you guys came to winning on

Day 2

:

Okay, I'm not liking Yates scummy rage is driving me crazy.
VOTE: Yates

L-1. And Levi hadn't outed Safety yet! [FTR, though, I probably rage even harder as Town.]

Honestly, I have no idea how we were supposed to win with Levi ratting out my only partner, a Town Hider, and a Town BP. Ree played his hand really well and had me second guessing myself constantly. On the day I claimed to have investigated him and got no result I thought I better say I investigated Ree in case he was a watcher or tracker or something. And that ended up actually helping to support my claim - which was crazy lucky.

[Yates]

How did you know town didn't have an investigative role and Aj was BP? Rolecop?

Luck. SHEER luck. I was just a goon!

[Yates]

How the hell did you know to claim BP cop?!

You want to know what's hilarious? I *ALMOST* claimed Hider!!

[Yates]

Levi knowing my scum buddy was a DEATH SENTENCE. It was basically me vs the world. I had no idea AJ was BP. I figured he was VT, to be honest. With Mhork and MM coming down on me so hard on Day 3 I figured I'd have to go BIG with my fake claim. I rolled the dice just praying there was no cop.

[Yates]

I was very impressed with your play given what you knew and what you thought you knew, Ree. There's a small list of people that I would like to personally invite to my first game as a mod and you are one of them.

[Yates]

I wish I would've survived

All you needed was ONE more person to follow your vote. Just convince ONE last Townie. That's how close it was.

[Yates]

Nah. I would have just lynched Ree. I just voted along with the first person to slap a vote down.

[Yates]

I'd second, were it not for the fact that town had no investigative roles. Once Yates had fakeclaimed successfully, it was basically game over.

So you didn't even know Aj was BP...? FUCK OFF!!!!

+

But seriously, with Levi knowing your scumbuddy, the deck was stacked heavily against you

+

First off, let me apologize to leviathan, SafetyDance and Yates. It was my screw up of levi's PM that caused Day 2's chaos.

He was supposed to have the mafia's win con

, but as I was copy and pasting I gave him the town win con, and I didn't realize my mistake until Day 2's commotion started and I was ABOUT to mod kill him, when I realized he was actually still playing to his win con :/ So I am terribly sorry for that.

I was really worried that all my mistakes would totally cause your demise... but somehow you pulled through, and that is absolutely incredible.

[Yates]

First off, let me apologize to leviathan, SafetyDance and Yates.

Nothing to apologize for. As it turns out, that mistake just made me try THAT MUCH harder to overcome all the ludicrous obstacles and enjoy the game even more as a result. I would literally wake up in the middle of the night with a BRILLIANT idea to get myself out of a sticky situation [then promptly fall back asleep thus forgetting my brilliant idea].

[Yates]

So much done with this game. So many people that I will never again play with if I decide to play anymore.

"Fear not. Your life will not go unlived."

[Yates]

but it was really his fakeclaim that was the coup de grace for town.

I can't get no love.

[Yates]

My new rule: Lynch Yates. Fuck gut.

Between you, PV, AA9, Monkey, and Tammy - I think I'll need to make an alt so I can live to see day 2!

[Yates]

Cry me a river. We started this game with two scum - one of them MOD CONFIRMED BY NAME by someone with a TOWN win condition.

It was essentially me vs. a BP, a hider, a "traitor" that could never become scum, and a bunch of VT's. Even Piggy admitted this game was likely unwinnable by scum.

[Yates]

I was going to claim I had a guilty and now I don't know on whom. I had it covered.

[Yates]

Omfg I KNEW it was yates

I know. EVERYBODY knew it is me. And yet...

[Yates]

>Not listening to Levi
>Levi is a traitor

You say that like traitors play to a Town wincon. They don't. Except here. Where Piggy made a copy pasta mistake. And didn't notice.

My "logic" on lynching Levi was 100% legit Town logic. If you ever find a traitor in a non-bastard game? Lynch him. He's scum. And that's the truth.

[Yates]

Also...

town deserved the loss because they didn't listen to me. =P

Town *did* listen to you. That's how Safety got lynched. Once Safety was lynched, you weren't actually a Traitor anymore since *I* couldn't convert you. Additionally, when you got Safety lynched, I was DOUBLE BONED because we skipped the night phase and I didn't have a chance to kill a Townie.

So to recap:
The Traitor outed 1/2 the scum team on DAY 2.
Beginning on Day 3 it was 1 against everyone.
I couldn't convert the Traitor.
I couldn't kill a Townie N2 since N2 didn't exist.
I couldn't kill a Townie N3 since my target was a Hider
I couldn't kill a Townie N4 since my target choices were either a Hider or BP [AJ].
OH! And EVERYONE knew I was scum.

I'm actually getting legitimately annoyed by people acting like Town was dumb this game in some arguments and that the odds were stacked against the

Town

in other arguments because my Cop claim was

impossible

to fake. The bottom line is that the only reason I won this game was through sheer willpower and a couple of lucky breaks. That's it. Give me

some

credit. Sheesh!

I feel like the only person with a legit gripe is Fuzzy. If Levi just outed himself on Day 1 [again - that whole argument came from a legit Town mindset], Fuzzy would have lived and I would have had even LESS of a chance of victory.

I feel like this was my biggest win on site and the best I've ever played and I can't even enjoy it because of all the sour grapes. And that makes me sad.

[Yates]

I gave you credit Yates

I think you, Ree, and Piggy are the exceptions that prove the rule. You have... uh... sweet grapes?

[Yates]

Thanks, AJ, HD, and Ree. I appreciate the support!

If Fuzzy, TNE, or even Piggy wanted to jump in on Nth ing the nom in thread, that would also be appreciated since SP clearly HATES me. He HATES me!

[Yates]

That's alright. I've already manipulated everyone else in this game to nom me for best manipulator so don't you look silly now for not being one of the cool kids?

[Yates]

I've felt considerably more manipulated in other games.

Interesting. You didn't FEEL manipulated. I like that!

While we are exchanging theory and game play ideas, I'd really like to hear your thoughts on a few points:

Spoiler:

1. What made you go from this:

Yates is an interesting wagon. Ms M's case is reads well and echos many of my thoughts about his play. My opinion on fuzzy is sort of like that on levi, so I think I'll
VOTE: Yates

I'll hopefully have time to reread and form some stronger opinions soon.

There's still a part of me that wants to lynch levi, because his posts just keep getting worse, but Yates does look more scummy.

Levi, rather than awfully defending yourself and your play style, why don't you tell us why I'm scummy and what you think of Yates?

To this:

VOTE: fuzzy

with the promise to get back onto Yates if this doesn't work out.

And never vote me again?

2. What role did I have in getting you to vote Levi over me?

Except if Safety is town and yellow is the label for PR's.

If you think Safety was Town, then Levi lied to get Town lynched thus making him scum. You are covered for either scenario. This is why Levi has GOT to be today's lynch.

You'd better be right about this.

Intent to Hammer: Levi

Was argument 1343 that

manipulative

convincing?


3. What made you decide to let me slide on the claim D2? If I had been forced to claim THAT DAY, I would have claimed Hider and - you're absolutely right - I

would have

lost the game.

You were wasting town resources for confirming town and finding scum. Why? There is absolutely no protown motivation for this.

As much as it goes against my

better judgment

paranoia, let him answer it tomorrow.

Finally, did you happen to notice that all this happened BEFORE this:

Yates as an x-shot BP cop is interesting. Not sure what to think of that. Do you have flavor? I would have thought we'd all be fairly vulnerable, given the horror style flavor. Are you sane?

[Yates]

Even I had to back down from my suspicions on you after you claimed, albiet it took a while, but I eventually did so.

You somehow read me like an open book so I wouldn't expect a manipulator nom from you. You'll have to let me know what I did [outside of gut] that tipped you off!

Honestly, I think the reason you backed down had less to do with you losing your suspicions on me and more to do with the fact you were the ONLY one with suspicions on me at that point. Actually, keeping you alive in the game forced me to play it straight. I knew if I made a misstep you would have been all over me like white on rice. So your presence kept me focused in a way I would have been less likely to be had I killed you N3 or N4.

[Yates]

Yeah, that's something I pointed out in an ongoing game, actually. I play more Town as scum than I do as Town - lol. I also happened to fake claim cop in that game as well - though I was simply a VT. I got mislynched. *shrug* At least I now have a cop fakeclaim for both of my meta arguments.

[Yates]

Given that we couldn't have been sure about Levi's role mechanism, he was actually a sensible lynch.

Oh, no doubt. As stated earlier, everything I said about Levi would have come from Town Yates as well. I *STILL* don't know why he didn't claim until D2. That mislynch never would have gone through if he had role revealed in his first post and said "I'm a traitor. -L-/Safety is the only person that can convert me to scum. I win with Town if we kill -L-/Safety."

That -L-/Safety flip would have bought Levi's claim more legitimacy than waiting. By waiting, he opened the door for me to plant some seeds there regarding his claim and how Traitors are actually SUPPOSED to work.

You could just as well have changed your mind from a good claim to a bad one.

I suppose. My thinking was that another flip would give me THAT much more information. Plus, another mislynch gets me that much closer to having a chance to win. If push came to shove and I *HAD* to claim D3? I *probably* would have claimed hider, since that's such a rare role. That said, I guess it's also hard to say what I would have done if I just killed you or MM [instead of trying to take out Ree] following your VT flip. My decision to target Ree and my inability to kill him is what pretty much forced my hand. I knew I'd have a crap ton of heat, we didn't get to kill on N2 because of commute, I couldn't kill N3 because of hider - I was in a REAL pickle.