Mini 1442: House of Cards - GAME OVER

[Aj The Epic]

You realize that that's kind of a purposeless discussion, along the lines of role fishing? I mean, I understand that we've got a limited amount of roles, but it's still bad for the mafia to know who's who.

/confirm.

[Aj The Epic]

I guess AJ didn't read the opening completely....

Or his role PM.

Or the PM where he was supposed to submit his numbers and his role picks.




Basically, AJ has claimed in-thread that he has no intention of reading

anything

carefully.

-Had already read all of the stuff over the last two games to choose a role. But yes, I doubt I've ever read anything carefully.

But, I'm not the only one who missed something, then.

>Jim Matthews

Fuck yeah, QTs!

you have a QT???

Was hoping to be the commuter.

[Aj The Epic]

My numbers were (4, 14)

So you're the jerk...
My numbers were (4, 7). And I don't remember who I picked... I think the captain role, the commuter and the day/night skipper. Obviously failed on all accounts.

[Aj The Epic]

Yeah Thez! You better not be scum this time.

Or any alignment, for that matter.

I hope you have a neutral suicidal survivor role

[Aj The Epic]

BULLSHIT.

[Aj The Epic]

However, being too close to corrupted officials has its toll; Ms. Gallagher will die if she tries to protect scum.

Role Descr.: Weak Doctor

Not really, HP... It seems that the doc would be a little more than a goon.

[Aj The Epic]

FuD is a threat because he can switch sides at the last minute to win with scum instead of town. He's a potential liability.

Sure, as a survivor, he's in a position to screw the town, but perhaps the better alternative is to actually take out scum over just policy lynching a survivor. Forcing a survivor to play their passive role to avoid them getting lynched/night killed isn't going to help the town any, and so we should be looking for scum, not taking the easy way out with a policy lynch.

[Aj The Epic]

At this point it's best if we just leave FuD be, the AA wagon needs to dissolve because it's only opportunistic at this point, and we need more discussion right now. It figures I was busy during the majority of discussion. We also need 3D and Lurker to speak up some more.

VOTE: Arcangel9

I a, back.

I just wanted to rub it in Thez's face that he got trolled.

@FuD: Did you read post 196? He was clarifying the argument and didn't think you should be lynched at all. Besides, you also made a massive blanket statement in saying you shouldn't be lynched. You ARE a potential liability, but are you currently a liability? No, of course not. If we see change of heart, then we will act upon it and quite possibly lynch.

See, the only discussion that I think can be relevant at all is, since he could be a liability late game, are you justifying completely fucking over half his win condition right now? If he does have a town bottom half alignment, which would be rather odd considering what I know a survivor to be, then no we shouldn't ever have to lynch him. It'd almost be harder for him to win with scum at that point. If he happens to be a scum survivor... Well, that's a different story but also a role I've never seen... All scum are attempting to survive. Plus, I don't believe Fuzduzn has done anything to make him look particularly scummy.

[Aj The Epic]

I'm starting to want to kill AA just because she's being incredibly rude.

Yeah, that's a justification if I've ever seen one. Let's lynch her because she's rude. Not scummy, rude. WTH kind of scumposting are you doing now? The Fuzduzn thing and now this.

And just to give you some shit: 'Kill'? Or 'lynch'.

VOTE: Paschendale

[Aj The Epic]

because I'm generally not very cautious whether I play town or scum.

This, I will definitely support. Thezmon, as scum, is rarely/never concerned with caution. And he's not generally cautious as town, either.

[Aj The Epic]

because I'm generally not very cautious whether I play town or scum.

This, I will definitely support. Thezmon, as scum, is rarely/never concerned with caution. And he's not generally cautious as town, either.

were any games you played with Thez as town?

About 20, so yes. And I've been in a ton with him as scum.

I dunno, the ability for one mind to coordinate three actions, regardless of the alignments of those three individuals could be quite powerful for town. Assuming Thez is town, of course. I think it's powerful, but not necessarily anti-town. And I think a running theme to the abilities people have, including the skips, vote steals, and Thez's power, set town's abilities somewhat at odds. This is a politics setting, and I think a little power infighting may just be a part of the game. If Thez can use his power well, it could be very advantageous to town. If he uses it foolishly, then that's probably a good indicator that he's scum.

The role itself is extremely gimmicky. Realistically, the role itself is more powerful as scum... because then he knows who to redirect to what. So checking if he's using it foolishly won't matter, because he can redirect actions and make himself look any way he wants as scum since the captain would know everyone's alignment. Why, though, do you keep playing people's role as a main point? It's really been all I remember you for at this point.

[Aj The Epic]

Just one of those games that's hard for me to get involved in early on. (It's the karma, dude... We've got like, zero synergy up in this bitch.)

AJ: Needs to offer some actual theories, and not just his dinky one liner vote on me. He's got a lot to say about roles, but almost nothing to say about anyone's alignment. Looks like active lurking to me.

Let's be honest... I may not have posted much, but it's not 'dinky little one-liners'. They've had a little more, or are you just not reading their entirety? And who the hell says 'dinky' anymore? I think I can use it as a verb: I dinked on your post.

DDD is next on my list for being open to setup speculation and having like two game related posts. Also Thez might be worth looking into.

Why not get the first flip before we start going and setting up others to knock down? In fact, I almost would rather start with DDD simply because I had to check to see if he was playing when he was mentioned.

VOTE: DDD

[Aj The Epic]

1. Do you trust thezmon to direct your night action?

I mean.. I'm a tracker. Don't matter much to me. I might be useless in the fact that I haven't been told if I'd see both actions of a person if they're scum killing. And other than that, I expect we'll have quite a bit of transparency going around as to who did what.

[Aj The Epic]

Desperado doesn't necessarily have to use the day skip. There's almost no reason ever to allow two scum kills. But again, there's no point to this discussion. Rather, Majiffy, for the sake of all things good, let's talk about why my last post was scummy in your eyes.

[Aj The Epic]

Desperado doesn't necessarily have to use the day skip. There's almost no reason ever to allow two scum kills. But again, there's no point to this discussion. Rather, Majiffy, for the sake of all things good, let's talk about why my last post was scummy in your eyes.

Actually wasn't your last post, but the one in which you posted that illiteracy picture.

Gave me some serious scum vibes in the way you posted it; you "intended" it to be a funny-ha-ha picture but it really came off as a cheap-shot way to discredit your attacker. To this extent, it looked more scum motivated than town motivated.

Pot calling the kettle black, mayhaps? While I get your point, the post itself held meaning besides poking fun at Pasche.
And we're just going to maneuver this post to move right into Pasche's post, to show that I'm not the only one. (See bold)

No, I should probably stop giving you the benefit of the doubt.

Your play is only bad if you're town. Finding scum is not "attack everyone who mentions me", which is what you've been doing so far. That's no better than guessing.

And your supposedly informed vote on me is based on misreading my comment about your ability, and misrepping that I, at any point, advocated lynching you. I've been talking about lynching Jebus for days. Pay attention. Talk about SOMETHING other than yourself.

Realistically, this post almost feels like a Bill Clinton moment... Yeah, he didn't ADVOCATE lynching Fuduzn, but I definitely got that impression from him that he wouldn't mind doing so. This is because Pasche mentioned Fuzduzn and potentially anti-town about 5-10 times.

1) Narrows down the lynching pool
2) Gives us information
3) Allows us time to gather information (tracker, watcher, etc whatever information roles we have)

Probably more, but those are just off the top of my head.

Most importantly, if Desperado is scum, it disables an auto scum win by just skipping lylo day and making the kill.

[Aj The Epic]

I'm not scared of a 1:1.

I'm saying I do the actions I choose, not the actions some one else chooses. It's MY role. Not yours. It's more anti-town for YOU to determine my actions than me to turn down your decision making, because at the end of the day, I am the only person I trust to do the right thing.

Let's talk about this. The only way to know WHERE and WHAT you're doing is to actually have someone dictate you or stalk you. Well, you have your choice of Thez/myself.

And that 1v1 bs? Majiffy's town. Go ahead and see who wins that one.

All I'm saying is if you direct me, I am not actioning at all.

So if you want my action. Don't direct me.

Again, be helpful and don't whine. If Thezmon is scum, we'll find out. Hopefully by lylo.

If we leave the dayskip unused and we hit LyLo, then we lose immediately if Desperado is scum. As this is a game where nobody can be trusted, are you willing to trust Desperado so implicitly?

The only other choice would be to manipulate Arc to vig him after his night skip, which isn't exactly phenomenal town play by us.

So yeah. Toogleoo can have me track him/her everywhere, but I still don't see anyone who targets her/him. Just an extra idea.

Arc, I'm not sure I'd get all three actions returned to me if I tracked Thezmon... He might not even be considered going anywhere...

[Aj The Epic]

Realistically, DDD is certainly a better lynch that HP. Not sure I'm down to lynch either (I'm personally leaning Pashe, Toogeloo, possible AA9 as scum). But compare their content and input... HP(O) has been a great deal more productive and DDD rarely has anything to do with our conversation in his few posts he has posted.

[Aj The Epic]

You're a special case.

[Aj The Epic]

The above two quotes lead me to believe AJ is scum.

The first quote is him regurgitating the same arguments that Majiffy and thez used to try and convince me to work with the plan instead of against it. The tone of the posts seems to be trying to join the popular thought without actually ruffling my feathers further, and at the same time, he appears to be trying to be constructive by offering to track me and have Arc Vig Desperado, neither of which looks like he really cared to put a lot of thought into and was just dropping ideas to look productive.

The second quote looks more like a bunch of fence-sitting to avoid taking a stance on the popular lynch targets. hp and DDD both getting heavy scrutiny, hp a bit more at the time. He keeps the discussion on DDD and hp by stating he thinks DDD is the better lynch, but very clearly makes sure he incorporates 3 other names that are not currently suspect. He doesn't place a vote, he doesn't try to push his suspects, he just name drops them, then he goes back to fence sitting about comparing and contrasting hp and DDD without again. This again appears like nothing more than a post for content to appear like he has interest in current discussion.

Vote: Aj

So first, I offered to track you. I didn't say to have Arc kill desperado. I stated that IF we didn't have the day skip used in a safe time, he'd have to die. But, as for tracking you, you had some fucking fit over it for a long while and wouldn't let it go, so I offered to track you. Using my head, since you have been pretty boneheaded about that. And sorry for not trying play off your feelings. If you want, I can start trying to make you mad.

Fence sitting? Not really. I don't have a case on DDD or HP, so I won't be a part of the wagon until I actually do. I'm simply putting in outside advice. Last I checked, I had my vote on Peshendale, one of the scum reads of mine. I don't need to throw down a vote when I'm fine with mine.

But keep going. I give no fucks about the general conversation of who's role goes where so you get the wrong impression that I'm trying to care about it.

[Aj The Epic]

Thez, who did you dictate (Since tracking them is worthless). Not where, just who.

[Aj The Epic]

You realize if we dayskip, then I can't use my powers for the 2nd night anyway?

And like Pasch said, lynching by role is a terrible reason.

2. He's a silencer. That has absolutely NO pro-town application. Silencer can be pretty deadly in later game.

'Nuff said.

[Aj The Epic]

There’s actual reasons to vote for AJ from him limited contributions having no positive momentum to his inability to know where his vote is placed.

I like the one line case, based solely on me forgetting my vote. Not like this is my only game. But thanks for finding my vote, I'm glad I have it on you.

[Aj The Epic]

That's pretty lame, seeing as I suggested that you were cementing my vote on you, but keep going. If you want to build your case on yourself, you're doing a simply marvelous job.

[Aj The Epic]

Let me ask you this: Do you have anything for a case on me besides me having a lapse in memory that I voted you? Or was this a convenient excuse to vote a wagon to counter your own?

[Aj The Epic]

Let me ask you this: Do you have anything for a case on me besides me having a lapse in memory that I voted you? Or was this a convenient excuse to vote a wagon to counter your own?

You can try to minimize as much as you like but that sort of thing doesn't happen to town players, it happens to scum who are disengaged from the game mentally because they don't have to authentically scumhunt. If I wanted to, I could certainly go through and find a bunch of minor reasons to claim I think you're scum because I can do that with basically any player in any game but what's the point other than showmanship? I push the reason(s) that's driving my thought process.

Also, if I wanted to find an easy counterwagon to my own I'd just vote for Jebus and is anyone really going to give me any grief if I was pushing a vanity lynch? Doubt it, so yes, my push is authentic.

First is untrue, and quite a few can attest to the fact that I have difficulty with larger games. I generally get overwhelmed for a while. Therefore, I stay quiet as to not intrude on or disrupt those who actually know what to do until I can figure out what to do. But, if you want a minor case of amnesia to drive your vote, go ahead.

Secondly, bullshit. You and I both know that you pushing Jebus would look suspicious for someone trying to off a lurker when they're the other main wagon.

[Aj The Epic]

5. Harps on setup ideas, despite his previous opposition. (373, 400)
5b. Contends that he doesn't care about role discussions, but keeps on having them. (551, 553)

6. HAS NO CASE!! He admits that his DDD vote was unfounded and that he has no case on HP or DDD, that is his only case is on me. And it's an astoundingly bad one. (551)

2. His vote on me was terribad, since I didn't actually do the thing he was accusing me of doing, but his reason fits with the above point. Relies on misreps to justify incredibly thin attack. (270, 400)

So, first one is bullshit. I made two comments about Desperado's role that had been overlooked. I had actually chosen his role in hopes of being scum to do that exact strategy.

I had a case against you, it was from you hounding Fuzduzn unnecessarily. I made multiple posts specifically against you, so that's complete bullshit. I didn't hear you saying I had no case when I placed the vote.

What I want to know is how they're called misreps now ONLY WHEN we're hundreds of posts later and no one has a direct link to find the posts. They certainly weren't at the time, and you even conceded multiple points, as I was apparently correcting or clearifying the heap of shit you said about 'fuzduzn being a negative utility but not bad enough to lynch', where no one caught the SECOND HALF of that. The apparent most important part that you spliced it's meaning back in later.

7. Rolefishes on Thez in a way that I find somewhat suspect. He just wants to know who Thez targeted. It looks like fishing for information for a setup. (553)

My motives on asking Thez are completely see-through. We know that Thez's choices will either act or not act. If they act, they go where Thez states, hence three tracks already. Therefore, what use is a tracker tracking what we already know?

After this ISO, I have literally no idea about any of AJ's reads on anyone. He claimed a townread on Majiffy at one point, but gave no reason. He claims not to have a scumread on DDD or HP, yet is voting for DDD. He claims to have a scumread on me, but gives paper-thin reasons to back it up. And I have no idea about his thoughts on anyone else. AJ has put exactly zero effort into determining who is or isn't scum. He has contributed no support to any wagon and has only tried to attack them.

This is a shitton of assumption to believe that I have no reads and have zero effort. As stated, until I get a good feeling for this game, I don't plan on interrupting it unnecessarily. Obviously, I've failed that a bit. Therefore, all my reads have been kept to myself, as I neither have been asked for them nor were they going to help discussion in any way.

Nor have I tried to attack people who are being wagoned. The sole exception was voting for DDD. I feel that voting toogeloo may be a more solid vote, seeing as I see him/her as scum more than DDD, but lynching a doctor day 1 is an awful idea, regardless of my feelings. Yes, guessing that I have not been connected so far would be more or less correct, but you could find people in this game to attest to my scum play being much more active.

Anyways, I trust my wagon is going to be burning red at the end of the game. I'm a rather weak link right now, admittedly.

[Aj The Epic]

Any reason Jebus over DDD? From my point of view (and this is OOG knowledge), this is a vote more for lurking that's come on rather easily because he's had almost no time to play... or been V/LA a lot.

[Aj The Epic]

Who are you asking, Aj, me?

In general. I mean, he's lurky, but there's Lurker. And, to an extent, me. I can't say anything in his favor, but offhand cannot remember anything against him.

[Aj The Epic]

Sure you were

[Aj The Epic]

Convenient time for him to show up... less than half an hour after the intent, response time much faster and denoting someone more active than he's been.

[Aj The Epic]

So Thezmon... why did you direct me to follow Majiffy? What was the line of thought there? I mean, aren't there more useful targets besides Majiffy, like checking the doc to where he goes just in case he scum protects?

Fyi: Thezmon forced a track on majiffy. I'm assuming Venmar was then Neighborized.
Toogeloo visited Majiffy night 2. Probably irrelevant.

[Aj The Epic]

According to AJ, Toog doc'ed me and died. Being a weak doctor, that implies I'm scum.

It'd be damning if there was another kill. As there was only one... Well, it's just as easy to assume the scum actually killed Toogeloo to avoid any N1 clears.

[Aj The Epic]

AJ - Who did you track in last two nights, please provide your night action details...

Already provided but:

Majiffy visited Venmar. (I still don't like Thezmon's choice at all).
Toogeloo visited Majiffy.

[Aj The Epic]

As much as I enjoyed that (I didn't... fuck you and your suggestiveness), I think it's best I personally move on from that...

VOTE: Thezmon

Pointless use of tracker, could've been banking on Toogeloo hitting one of them and dying, and not having anyone around to see that.

[Aj The Epic]

I don't necessarily think Thezmon is scum. He had to explain his idea on sending me after Majiffy. I really, really, hate that choice. He's the one who could manipulate Toogeloo to suicide on someone else and make sure that I (The only remaining strong investigation role) would know nothing. He might even had tried this. As manipulation, it was too advantageous and to easy for him to do so.

[Aj The Epic]

@Majiffy: Look, just because I was a general lazy-ass day 1 doesn't mean I'm HP's partner.

I was mentioned by HP once... so I really can't argue with/against your logic, Majiffy.

[Aj The Epic]

Good thing mafiascum never goes and crashes...

I can't speak for him, but I assumed myself already that the mentioning of him by HP (and partial buddying) was your primary motivator. Or you're saying it isn't?

It is, but it seems to be scum-motivated to try to pre-emptively take the wind out of my attack in such a way.

Oh, spare me the argument that knowing your arguments for a case is scummy. You said you read HP's Iso. I went and read HP's iso. Therefore, being mentioned only once, I could easily draw forth a conclusion. It's fairly simple logic there.

@Paschedale: This 537? You discussed me here? No, you mentioned your possibility of going through my iso and talked about DDD. Nice try though.

Spoiler:

Can we have some more votes on Jebus?

Do you want him pressured or dead?

I want him dead, not the least of which for not yielding to pressure at all. He's popped up from time to time, and said only bad things. And refuses to contribute anything good. If he doesn't produce this post he's working on, or if it's not really good, I want him dead dead dead.

And now to succumb to a bit of WIFOM. If Jebus was scum, wouldn't he want to alter his play so that we don't lynch him? Or is he relying on people just letting him slide if they think he's just lurking? Gah!

If we're gonna activate dayskip for tomorrow, doesn't that need to happen before we lynch? Or can it go down in twilight? And should we risk Desperado not being on during twilight? Or has Desperado already done it, since it's secret? Will we even know until the skip happens? @_@

ISO of DDD next. HP, AJ, and maybe a few others will follow later.

I see a lot of passivity with DDD. He criticises others without offering much of his own. He attacked Desperado in a pretty weak way, and abandons it when he knows we don't agree. He spends a lot more time talking about powers than alignment. Also his suggestion to keep me jailed for the game because I can't be tracked is stupid. I have no night action unless I'm scum, and am already bulletproof (once). Use night powers on me if you think I'm scum, not merely because of my role.

There's basically no scumhunting anywhere in DDD's posts. At all. I have no idea why he thinks that Thez or Toog might be scum.

I would be very okay with a DDD lynch. In fact, possibly moreso than a Jebus one, since there's no wine to deal with.

And 617? A "Here's his iso summed up by me"? I already attacked it for being stupid, and you were biased because I was voting for you for trying to PL Fuduzn.

[Aj The Epic]

VOTE: Pashedale

Was going to avoid this, but he completely ignored me telling him his case was bad. The two posts he used in defense are bad so his attack is still bad and he has no case. I feel that his job today is 'stay on the largest wagon and not get lynched' or 'sheep majiffy' which is a fine strategy some of the time. Right now, though, it's simply Pashe-scum sheeping Majiffy.

[Aj The Epic]

Telling me that my case on you is bad, and then me not elaborating on it for your benefit... that's a stupid reason for a vote. I'm clearly not going to try and convince you to vote for yourself, so why would I try to defend against a criticism like "bad" from my suspect?'m clearly not going to try and convince you to vote for yourself, so why would I try to defend against a criticism like "bad" from my suspect?

@Paschedale: This 537? You discussed me here? No, you mentioned your possibility of going through my iso and talked about DDD. Nice try though.

You had no case. You literally chose a post that mentioned my name and hoped that no one would look at it. That's how awful it was.

[Aj The Epic]

Pashe, we skipped a day. Don't act like it's been 2 full days that I haven't done anything when there WASN'T a day to work with. Also, I like how you say I haven't done any scum hunting when I mainly targeted you. I also find it ironic that you say I've done no scum hunting when you're the one who said this:

I'm starting to want to kill AA just because she's being incredibly rude.

Yeah, i think you're scum. Don't act like it's OMGUS as most of my posts d1 were directed at you. You wanted to get an easy lynch on Fuduzn. After I called you on it, you said you simply were trying to point out that he could be potentially bad. But yet you were encouraging others to lynch him. You targeted AA9 because she was 'being rude'. Good job scum hunting. You vote AA9 in 56 then without unvoting, vote again in 96 (and DDD called me out for not knowing where my vote was). In 157, you state that you're semi-comfortable with an AA9 lynch (despite voting her twice?) and give meta to say that last time she didn't flip out. Then, you attack AA9 who stated that Thezmon was scummy by meta. Contradiction again. In fact, that simple post made you feel so good that you posted this:

On the surface, I feel better about voting AA now. She's doubling down on horrible, horrible reasons. She's digging her own grave so effectively that... well... could it be too good to be true?

God, does that feel corny as all hell.

FuD is a threat because he can switch sides at the last minute to win with scum instead of town. He's a potential liability.

This is his next post. His start to attack Fuduzn. I call him on it immediately (lynch scum, don't pl) and he stated that he was 'just clarifying his argument'. I really didn't find that anywhere. He was laying out Fuduzn as a target after his unvote, but gave himself a way out if someone disagreed. Once Fuduzn and I started to point this out, he tried to back off.

Realistically, his 617 (the iso post) has always felt like a "Let's give someone attacking me a scumread" post. With no links/posts, those who were simply reading would have to take whatever you said at face value. Unfortunately, face value was pretty biased.

Yes, Pashe, I do have some scum reads. I've already stated you. But that's from Day 1. You seemed to really want to scumread me after I stated that you were attempting to lynch Fuduzn for no good reason (besides being a survivor).

Thezmon is my second that I'm questioning because there still is no explination for me to follow a neighborizer. It's stupid because we know who he neighborizes and, if scum, he'll most likely neighborize town to influence. What more, the likelyhood of a neighborizer targeting for a NK when a tracker is around is low. Why? Because a scum neighborizer is trying to influence someone to their side, not risking getting caught in a NK. Therefore, why would I need to check Majiffy? There was no chance for him to NK.

Majiffy, Venmar, AA9 are all obviously town. I also believe Fuduzn to be town. Which leaves Lurker, our silent silencer. While I don't have a scumread on him, by PoE he is scum.

Pashe, if you want to continue targeting me for not being that involved D1, that's fine. It's a non-point, it's relatively common, and if Majiffy wanted to, he could tell you that it's fairly widespread for me to be close to inactive d1.

[Aj The Epic]

He did state when he sent his actions in. I'm not sure what post it was, but I had asked him about it then.

[Aj The Epic]

That's a bridge too far.

We're playing a game of assumptions. I made what I feel to be a really good assumption.

[Aj The Epic]

No vig left. AA9 already used her shot. Though I must ask, who are you looking to lynch right now if you're already concerned about tomorrow?

[Aj The Epic]

I'm going to be really inactive tomorrow through Sunday evening. I should visit Thursday and maybe Saturday evening, so I won't drop a V/LA but ZI'm definitely limited.

I will, however, keep caught up even if not posting.

[Aj The Epic]

I'm guessing it goes:

We don't know who to lynch, but Pashe/DDD/Aj/Lurker all are options. Most of this is from yesterday (D1) and not a whole lot has been gathered for today (D3). I also am assuming that most people are probably looking to this Venmar/Majiffy combo to do something fantastic.

Pasche accuses DDD of DDD's vote onto Pasche being a sheep of the voteless Fuduzn.
Fuduzn doesn't see it that way. He also thinks that Pasche is just calling cases (His is particular) terrible with nothing behind that. (I agree with this point)
Venmar thinks that DDD is using "non-serious sarcasm" too much, not really trying. He also thinks that DDD showed up conveniently after he voted.
DDD does seem to think that Pasche is scum (Stating that Majiffy and Pasche are the last scum). Points out that he only posts at specific times.
Thezmon seemed to be thinking I wasn't scum for a while, but started to have a change of heart when you all voted for DDD. He wants Majiffy to state a reason DDD is a better lynch then me (he doesn't think DDD is scum).

So, on the DDD case, people who think DDD is scum:

Venmar
Majiffy
Pasche

People who don't necessarily see him as scum
Fuduzn (can't vote though)
DDD (Well... Obviously)
Thezmon
Myself

People who haven't presented a clear opinion recently:
Lurker
AA9

I hope that helps.

[Aj The Epic]

Coming down to a Lynch Between DDD and pashendale, Looks like DDD takes the cake.

I'm not going to hammer yet, But If it comes down to it I will.

What was your results of your iso review? Anything worth noticing?

[Aj The Epic]

VOTE: Lurker

Agreed. There's nothing we've learned from him so far and really nothing he's posted to help us one way or another. More than anything, he's dangerous to keep around if he is scum because we never made any focus on him. And silencing could also come in deadly to the effectiveness of the town.

[Aj The Epic]

Effective only as scum... As town, it's an annoyance, which really means that lurking should be ineffective?

[Aj The Epic]

Oh really? How could I know you directed the tracker to a useless action? The fact that you wished to cover it up to a tracker was suspicious, but then you send the one real investigation role after Majiffy. Realistically, it was stupid and you're grasping at straws trying to say that I was suspicious for trying to find the vest way to use my action.

[Aj The Epic]

Why do you lie about that when AA9 is still alive?

[Aj The Epic]

VOTE: Paschendale

He's got to be scum... It's either him of Thez at this point. DDDP can be town.

Majiffy, what are YOUR thoughts? More or less, you were pretty distracted for the majority of the first half of Day 3. The lurker lynch was necessary, but didn't give me a lot of insight to you.

[Aj The Epic]

And this is why Paschedale is scum. "Who championed this nonsense? Of course, someone who I can lynch!" Pasche, the "Players like him don't make scumslips" is such bullshit that it makes my ears bleed. That's you copping out from a case on him. I've played this game for two years, Thezmon for three, and I bet we could both catch scum slips from the most experienced one in our group, even though she's played for longer than both of us (perhaps combined). Players make scum slips, and you'll make a case.

[Aj The Epic]

If you guys cared, I didn't use my action. I didn't want to screw anybody over because knowing a person's action was not of value to me from anybody. Sorry if you don't like it, but that's the way it went.

I figured this. Do you direct kills as well, or just normal night actions (If kills, you could simply direct Pasche and DDDP)

This game has gotten way too quiet way too quickly. This really can't end well for town to all be lurkers.

[Aj The Epic]

Whelp. Looks like someone just told the crowd his alignment.

[Aj The Epic]

I don't know, Venmar looks fairly town...

[Aj The Epic]

In all honesty, scum is probably DDDP and Fuduzn.

[Aj The Epic]

Yes. Are you trying to set up a mislynch now?

[Aj The Epic]

If Majiffy did lie, he's scum. He could be trying to knock out the guy who can double-vote him to death in lylo, removing Venmar would mean that a tvt fight could continue where he judged it. Venmar hasn't made an attempt to win, whereas if he was scum, he would've won by now. Ergo, Majiffy/DDDP/Fuzduzn are the only answers left.

It all boils down to the fact that Venmar can't be scum.

Thezmon did order me to track Venmar, who stole DDDP's vote. They're not on the same team. Venmar didn't go elsewhere, meaning he didn't perform the kill.

[Aj The Epic]

So then explain how scum hasn't won yet?

[Aj The Epic]

He could've very easily wanted to force a reaction and just miscalculated. I voted at the beginning of the day, and there was probably a good week between my vote and the hammer. Obviously, no one had anything pressing to say.

[Aj The Epic]

So, if Thezmon directed me, who else was directed? Or was I the only one?

Also, DDDP, what do you think now that the mod has confirmed Venmar could've won by now were he scum?

[Aj The Epic]

I think I mentioned I was forced by Thezmon to track Venmar. And he went to you. You obviously weren't the kill and I believe I should've been able to see a double night action. Which is why I'm also stating that Venmar did not make last night's kill. And he has your vote.

[Aj The Epic]

Dunno. But it begs the question of if Thezmon forced a vote steal on his own teammate. I mean, we have two unaccounted for people that Thez could manipulate and of the alive, the only manipulating he could've done was Venmar, Majiffy and myself.

So, welcome to confirmed scum by your own logic...

VOTE: DDDP

[Aj The Epic]

Look, here's how I see it: There's one scenario how Venmar hasn't won: You're scum.

He visited you last night. There's no denying that. Thezmon might've directed it. So, either he wins because you aren't scum or can't win because you are. If you're scum and he is scum, then the reason HE can't win is because they don't control vote majority.

Otherwise, it's not Venmar since he took your vote.

[Aj The Epic]

Still relies on a lot of if's...

But fine.

UNVOTE:

So what do you purpose?

[Aj The Epic]

Woah. Fucked that word up. "Propose" not 'purpose'.

[Aj The Epic]

DDDP, can you vote Venmar? We'll get a vote count after and check to see if your vote shows.

[Aj The Epic]

My only line of thought is if you DON'T possess your vote, it'd be pretty damning (Because you wouldn't have commuted and had lied to us). Other than that, yes, there doesn't seem to be much pointing anywhere else besides Venmar.

[Aj The Epic]

Well, that's an unfortunate scum claim.

[Aj The Epic]

DDDP, but would scum Venmar steal a vote from scum FuDuzn? Maybe one Day as a seperation strategy, but scum wouldn't steal from scum twice in a row. And town Venmar, I would think, would steal a vote from his top scum read(I don't believe he listed me as a scum read). More reasoning to why Ven is most likely scum in the scenario that we find ourselves in(and reasoning to why I am not partners with Ven as well).

Majiffy neighbored Venmar night 1. My guess is Venmar tried to keep a good town-face for as long as he thought he had to have town help for majority, then switched off when he went for the kill.

[Aj The Epic]

I know Thezmon well enough. He almost certainly directed you. He'd try to use his ability to bus your vote against your partner and then give you no chance to win that scenario. He probably also saw the instant-win ability. And then he had me track you to see if you opted for it or decided to kill.

[Aj The Epic]

"Which strikes me as biased"



Alrighty. Venmar-scum down. End the day now or later?

[Aj The Epic]

I mean, you're simply lying. I watched you go to DDDP. The only remaining question is when we lynch you. Lying can change any read, Venmar. And you've been caught in one.

[Aj The Epic]

but I'd rather finish hashing things out before we get to the proving myself portion of the show.

This is why I wait.

[Aj The Epic]

Those questions both seem fairly intune with each other. Talking about WHEN we end the day.

DDDP simply seems to have something he wants to finish up. So unless you have a way to explain why you visited DDDP last night and claimed not to attempt stealing anyone's vote, I'm pretty much done listening to you.

[Aj The Epic]

Lol...

If he wasn't confirmed before.

[Aj The Epic]

Venmar is still lying, though. Until he explains that part, I think Majiffy as a threat pales in comparison.

[Aj The Epic]

Look: Fuck Majiffy as scum: It's Venmar. He visited DDDP yesterday, and at least attempted to take the vote. Thezmon probably ordered it. Venmar would've just stolen an easy vote had he the choice. Also, Venmar, being scum, must be lynched while he has only one vote because in a general Lylo, he wins automatically.

VOTE: Venmar

[Aj The Epic]

Damn Majiffy...

[Aj The Epic]

DDDP/Fuz, one of you care to hammer our scum?

[Aj The Epic]

Majiffy and I are both voting Venmar. Venmar is voting me.

[Aj The Epic]

Yeah.

VOTE: Fuduzn

Nice try, but you got tracked to Majiffy.

[Aj The Epic]

What are you talking about? I mean, I understand that you kind of have to pretend I'm guilty to create SOME tension, but what?

[Aj The Epic]

But, two issues with your logic: A. DDDP was confirmed, and Venmar lied (Which I proved by my track) and B.) This is not a read, this is a confirmed action that came back tracking you to Majiffy, wherein reads don't matter.

[Aj The Epic]

Up until that point, Venmar was reading more pro-town than even Majiffy. If you may recall, that day was drastically longer than it's posts indicate because no one wanted to post. To be completely honest, I had Venmar as town until he lied. He had conferred with Majiffy multiple times, and had made logical sense throughout the day. Then yesterday, there was no attempt to quickhammer and end the game. Had he not lied, I still would've had a town read on him. The only reason it changed was my action said something completely different from what he said.

[Aj The Epic]

You're grasping at straws. I HAVE YOU TRACKED TO MAJIFFY. It's over, town wins. There is nothing more than that.

[Aj The Epic]

The possibility is there, but I've been consistent with my results, and as I stated, my tracking incriminated Venmar beyond any reasonable doubt.

[Aj The Epic]

I missed that he said he didn't take a vote the first time around.

[Aj The Epic]

Muwhahaha...

Scum failed so HARDCORE yesterday. Which is WHY it was circular logic. Thezmon saved the game by directing Venmar into you, but I didn't notice because I was out of touch for a while. Venmar slipped a bus to me by intentionally lying. And either way, had I died it was an auto win, had Venmar died, I had a fake claim to fall on.

But yeah. I managed to salvage a lot of mistakes early on. Was going to get Thezmon to die by fakeclaiming track and then having Venmar to take to win, but he thought it'd be better just to sit and play the way mafia generally tries to. Wasn't a good game for me though.

[Aj The Epic]

Yeah. The only correct thing we did do is when we suspected we had the game won, Venmar and I planned to sit on the win for a while. Which is how I caught this mistake. Had we tried to quickhammer out of the game... Well, pretty telling, isn't it?

As to Toogeloo: I've played multiple games when scum wins, all the dead town thinks they could've done better. That's typical, and I've felt it, too. But the result wasn't so clear-cut from the actual thread. From two days out, I saw scum could win regardless of who was lynched in the 3-2 lylo and also saw auto-win possibilities. In fact, scum had auto-wins (barring thezmon's move) from a 2-4 day. The game was ours two days ago had Thezmon not directed into DDDP and DDDP not commuted. The night actions that night went perfectly for town. Even with all these factors and scum having much more information to fall on, we still had one flaw that WE overlooked and it was exploited (We actually banked on getting a lynch before Thezmon submitted actions).

[Aj The Epic]

I still feel that using that Day Skip was the stupidest thing ever. No town should ever do that, even if we had gotten the Night skip it wouldn't have been worth it.

This, though, was my plan. It's probably the one positive thing I did all game. I wanted to get Desperado a little bit scummy looking and then slip that it was an instant-win in the night before lylo FORCING the town to eventually use it because guess who wouldn't ever die? We'd either get a free lynch and a free kill, or a free kill.