Marvel Avengers Alliance - Game over

[smargaret]

cxinlee is massively antitown. Post content or don't post, but posting just for the sake of hearing yourself type is essentially doing the prod dodge thing. Scorpion is town. If one of the thor/porkens/bulbazak mess or zekrom is scum, then the other one isn't - I don't see scum trying to distract from distancing like that. Actually, if thor/porkens/bulbazak are town,then zek probably is too because scum want mislynches, and those don't happen if scum draw attention to themselves by blatantly not commenting.

That said, wtf? RVS is not inherently protown.

VOTE: cxin. Have opinions. Express them.

[smargaret]

My reasoning wasn't totally clear. It was 3 am local time, in my defense.

Basically, there's a big mess that I wasn't really up to sorting through at 3 am between Thor, Porkens, and Bulbazak. It looks likely that one or more wagons could conceivably come out of that. If T/P/B are all town, then scum would like to encourage those wagons - and not draw a lot of attention to themselves and risk derailing the hypothetically building wagons by trying to start RQS once the game has actually begun. On the flip side, if any of T/P/B are scum, or are distancing, then presumably scum-Zek would know that and would have a planned out response, and I really, REALLY doubt that any entire scumteam would argue for randomly starting RQS. It's WIFOMy, but I don't see any reason why scum-Zek would play that way.

That said, given the lack of a daystart PM, it's probable that the list of currently-active players is disproportionately scummy. Presumably scum would have been told to stop talking in the qt, so they'd all be aware day had started while town players had no idea.

[smargaret]

Broseidon - how do you expect to do that when anti-town players aren't doing anything? You motivate them to do something - anything - right?

[smargaret]

Thor - what's the difference between lynchbait and low-hanging fruit? Specifically re: your reply to me about cxin and your reply to Yates about Zek. I'd quote, but ipads are annoying and I don't feel like switching to the real computer.

Porkens - Do you still think Thor and Bulbazak are scum? Do you think Zek is scum with them? Why?

Bulbazak, though - I don't know that I'd call it a flinch per se, but definitely overly defensive. Do not like.

Zakk - anything else to say? Because calling someone out around one post when we have seven pages of actual stuff to go on (as opposec to questions about emotional state) and then nothing else? That's a bit fence sitty.

cxin - It means don't active lurk. If you're going to post, respond to the thread or actually draw conclusions, don't just post "OHAI, I'm here, nothing to say!". If you don't have an opinion, reread the thread and develop one. What is your read on Zek? In fact, who are your top three scumreads and why?

[smargaret]

Not sure bout TSO/bulb. Will reread later.

I don't like the zekrom wagon. I dont like policy lynches in general unless they're on scum.

Also guys, stop pressurising me to get reads/opinions, I scumhunt at my own pace.

cxin, no, you scumhunt at a pace that lets town read you. To do otherwise is antitown at best, scummy at worst. Speaking of which, you still haven't answered me - who are your top three scumreads? And how would you know that zek isn't scum, unless you are?

Yiley, we're past 300 votes. Do you have anything to say about the game, or are you just going to bandwagon away? I mean, Zek is pretty anti-town, but it looks more like anti-town than scummy. The join date, for one, and the question about emotional state? That sounds like transitioning from IRL mafia to online mafia. I'd much rather lynch the anti-town player who looks scummy (cxin). Or Bulbazak. Or for that matter, Yiley, for shamelessly sheeping.

Thor, I asked about the lynchbait vs low-hanging fruit because it sounds like you're in favor of a cxin wagon and less so a zek wagon (specifically, the reasonable to lynch lynchbait vs low-hanging fruit isn't alignment indicative).

Porkens, I actually did have a couple of opinions in the post with the questions, specifically that Bulbazak was overly defensive and Zakk was failing to take a position on practically anything, which for the record is scummy, but I want to see more of what he has to say.

Sorry for disappearing; some stupid person decided to stupidly spray stupid perfume on the stupid pool deck (instead of, y'know, in the LOCKER ROOMS THAT WERE LESS THAN 50 YDS AWAY) Monday night and my asthma objected. Vehemently. Protip: If you're going to get taken by ambulance to the er in nothing but a wet swimsuit, don't do it in the middle of February in New England.

[smargaret]

WTF?

Can we get some more cxin votes, please? The gut read thing is bad enough, but the backtracking on the policy lynch thing is pretty scummy too.

[smargaret]

So, I'm usually the last person to advocate for meta, but take a look at cxin's completed games. They're telling.

[smargaret]

He's actually capable of posting content. It says that the problem here isn't VI-ness, that he doesn't actually have reads or that he doesn't know how to express them, but rather that he's unwilling to.

[smargaret]

Cxin, it's less about alignment and more about the fact that you clearly understand how the game is played - and you aren't playing it.

[smargaret]

cxin, with the amount of stuff that's happened in this game, if you can't come up with any content except a townread on Thor, well, that's why the meta is relevant. Because it shows that you can come up with content - heck, you can BS content if you have to - and you just don't care enough to. And players who don't care enough to play the game are a liability that, regardless of alignment, town cannot afford to have in lylo.

And yeah, to some extent the same is true of Zek. That said, the meta doesn't show that he's being willfully obtuse, and I think cxin is more likely to be scum than Zek.

[smargaret]

Plus the backpedalling, the he's town/not town contradiction about Zek, the fact that you were freaking out about pressure that had been absent for over a hundred posts, and that you seem like you couldn't care less about this game, yeah, pretty much.

[smargaret]

As far as answering your question, if you care so little that you can't come up with content to post, then I don't really care about your alignment, because you're too anti-town to leave alive in lylo. And there is no way that scum is going to do us a favor and nk lynchbait, so it's better to do it now than when we don't have the lynches to waste.

[smargaret]

Cxin, it's both, but scumminess is the deciding factor here. And if one post 120+ posts ago is enough to make you freak out, well, everything that was said about Bulbazak flinching? That all applies to you. Freaking out under pressure is one thing. Freaking out under practically no pressure at all is something else,

[smargaret]

Not sure bout TSO/bulb. Will reread later.

I don't like the zekrom wagon. I dont like policy lynches in general unless they're on scum.

Also guys, stop pressurising me to get reads/opinions, I scumhunt at my own pace.

cxin overreacting to pressure

Thor - what's the difference between lynchbait and low-hanging fruit? Specifically re: your reply to me about cxin and your reply to Yates about Zek. I'd quote, but ipads are annoying and I don't feel like switching to the real computer.

Porkens - Do you still think Thor and Bulbazak are scum? Do you think Zek is scum with them? Why?

Bulbazak, though - I don't know that I'd call it a flinch per se, but definitely overly defensive. Do not like.

Zakk - anything else to say? Because calling someone out around one post when we have seven pages of actual stuff to go on (as opposec to questions about emotional state) and then nothing else? That's a bit fence sitty.

cxin - It means don't active lurk. If you're going to post, respond to the thread or actually draw conclusions, don't just post "OHAI, I'm here, nothing to say!". If you don't have an opinion, reread the thread and develop one. What is your read on Zek? In fact, who are your top three scumreads and why?

as far as I can tell, the last time anyone did anything vaguely construable as pressure prior to post 256. So I was wrong on how many posts it had been, but the point remains - overreacting to pressure is scummy.

[smargaret]

Yiley, I'm going to reiterate my question. We've passed your 300 vote threshhold. Do you have anything to say?

[smargaret]

I feel like everyone is useless about. Until 300 posts typically no super useful stufff

That 300 post threshhold. And all you've done is sheep the Zek wagon.

[smargaret]

Who the heck thought that the mod wasn't going to reveal flips?!?

Yiley moved up a lot in my scum rankings. The whole prolonged intent to hammer thing - that's scum bussing, in my book. And as we now have some flips AND have more than 300 posts, his first post today had better have some content.

cxin is still scum, for reasons previously stated.

VOTE: cxin

[smargaret]

TSO, why are you so concerned with making sure we know why you thought zek was town? I get that you were asked, but your response is a bit defensive.

Yiley did not, in fact, come back with actual content.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Yiley

[smargaret]

Thor, it's the going out and looking for a meta example where he misread zek that really gets me. That's where it crosses the line between responding to a question and overreacting.

[smargaret]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=35943

Bulba, here's very recent meta where I misread Zekrom as scum when he was Town.

TSO, I'm not sure what there is to elaborate on - you were asked a question, you answered it thoroughly, and instead of being done there, you kept digging for meta to prove that you can't read zek. Why did you feel the need to keep going?

[smargaret]

v/la this weekl. in hospital with pneumoni

[smargaret]

I'm home from the hospital (SO much easier to type without all the wires). I'm going to reread and post actual content later, but Yates? I

really

hope that this is the steroids talking, but were you implying I'm faking all this? Seriously?

[smargaret]

So as far as I can tell people think I'm scum because I misread Zek? That's fair, I obviously did misread him. I didn't think I saw any questions directed at me, but I wouldn't be at all surprised to hear that I did, please call me on it.

Still not liking TSO. The whole "I'm too busy defending myself to scumhunt" routine (which is bull, I don't recall seeing a whole lot of pressure on him) and saying I'm scum - for misreading Zek, which he admits he did too? It really doesn't read true.

Yiley has vanished without providing any sort of content. Not good, but also kind of pointless to pressure someone who isn't playing ight now, so IGMEOY when he comes back.

cxin is still scum.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: cxin

[smargaret]

also, I'm going to have more about the replacements later today/early tomorrow, that isn't the end of me catching up.

[smargaret]

Bro, aren't you already voting for cxin?

And yeah, Thor, Pere's on my list of people who need a closer look.

Yiley, who's your top scumread right now?

[smargaret]

You're right, I misread.

[smargaret]

I'm all for a lock, too, mostly because I didn't actually get a chance to review anything before the site went down. Also seconding the request for a yiley prod.

[smargaret]

PV, what part of I had a townread on Zekrom do you not understand? I was asking questions to try and figure out what everyone else was, but I already had a townread on Zek. And I tend to ask questions when things catch my eye, especially D1 - I'm not totally sure why you think questioning Zakk is a problem.

Anyway, from reading through the stuff I missed, PV came across as scummy, mostly in the desperation to get a counterwagon going so we don't lynch cxin today. Granted, that means I have way too many scumreads, but another couple of flips will fix that, and cxin needs rope - unless we're actually getting the cop result today?

[smargaret]

TSO never said there wasn't.

[smargaret]

Yiley had this conversation about how he'll play the game at the end of the day yesterday. Yiley also had this conversation when he first showed up. Annoyed is right *headdesk*

Cxin is just so scummy, though. Cxin vs PV - PV is posting stuff. Stuff I disagree with, true, and stuff that indicates that he skimmed a lot of the early game (which may be nothing more than replacing in). Cxin isn't. At least one of them is surviving today, and I'd rather have PV around tomorrow than cxin.

[smargaret]

PV, what part of I had a townread on Zekrom do you not understand? I was asking questions to try and figure out what everyone else was, but I already had a townread on Zek. And I tend to ask questions when things catch my eye, especially D1 - I'm not totally sure why you think questioning Zakk is a problem.

Anyway, from reading through the stuff I missed, PV came across as scummy, mostly in the desperation to get a counterwagon going so we don't lynch cxin today. Granted, that means I have way too many scumreads, but another couple of flips will fix that, and cxin needs rope - unless we're actually getting the cop result today?

Pere needs rope because he's pushing you, cxin needs rope because he's likely to be hung today.

Good Jesus.

PV needs rope because he's pushing me, but he either hasn't actually read the posts he's citing as evidence of my scumminess (specifically, where I got the townread on Zek) or he's misrepping like heck. And I was pushing cxin before pushing cxin was cool /hipster.

[smargaret]

cxinlee is massively antitown. Post content or don't post, but posting just for the sake of hearing yourself type is essentially doing the prod dodge thing. Scorpion is town.

If one of the thor/porkens/bulbazak mess or zekrom is scum, then the other one isn't - I don't see scum trying to distract from distancing like that. Actually, if thor/porkens/bulbazak are town,then zek probably is too because scum want mislynches, and those don't happen if scum draw attention to themselves by blatantly not commenting.

That said, wtf? RVS is not inherently protown.

VOTE: cxin. Have opinions. Express them.

PV - the explanation of my zek town read.

[smargaret]

What links Anti to the Yates kill?

723 and 726.

But he said they were weak scumreads.

yeah, and carry-over from smudger

who i'm not

so keep creating smokesmokesmoke

This is terrible reasoning. No, you aren't Smudger, but you got the same role pm.

TSO - Gut is a horrible reason to vote someone on Day 3. Horrible.

Why are people voting Broseidon again?

VOTE: Peregrine - but I'm going to reread Antihero/Smudger tonight, because I also don't remember anything particularly memorable out of that slot, and that may change my vote.

[smargaret]

I don't have a whole lot to say, mostly because life happened and I was supposed to be asleep three hours ago, but Antihero did not come off well on my reread. Specifically, what was up with the vote on Bulbazak Day 2? That wagon was going precisely nowhere, and Antihero didn't do a whole lot to push it or move his vote elsewhere where it would do more good.

So in short, yeah, I'm happy voting for either Antihero or PV. And because somebody asked if it was OMGUS, probably at least in part, I'm only human after all, but I also think that his logic either really sucks or he's misrepping me.

[smargaret]

thor - because I misremembered your question: nothing changed particularly (although pv failed to respond to my pointing out where he was really misrepping/misreading me at the tail end of the day) but I had a scumread on pv yesterday too, I just saw cxin as a higher priority.

[smargaret]

Penguin, the only way you have a scum game with me is if you're an alt. I haven't been scum since I started playing again, and I stopped before you joined.

CTD, weren't you putting together a case on me? Where is it?

PV is still misrepping. I responded to why I didn't question Zek. I had a townread on him. I was trying to get reads on the other players. I've said this multiple times now; I don't get why it's so hard to understand.

[smargaret]

CTD, I guess scum might own their mistakes like that, and I agree that smargaret wasn't going to avoid being linked with the cxinlee lynch regardless. But I don't remember scum-smargaret being that brazen. I'll reread the scum game I have with her to see if reviewing it shakes up my take on her, since BRO isn't commenting.

Wasn't she town in Narnia, or do you have another game with her?

Yeah, I went back and checked, and she was town miller. Who didn't claim until mass claim or something and unsurprisingly got lynched. She was also town in Mini 1527 and got vigged lateish in the game.

At this point I'm getting better vibes from smargaret's engagement with the game than Antihero's.

While I wouldn't argue that Antihero's engagement with the game is anything to write home about, I seriously struggle to see where you're getting any sort of good vibes from Smargaret's.

Are you actually town reading Smargaret? It feels like you're actively avoiding taking an actual stance on her.

As I think about it, I don't have an active town read on her. But I'm leery of the wagon for how it seems to have persisted and having refreshed my (apparently crap) memory on her town games, this play really isn't out of line with what got her lynched/eliminated elsewhere as town.

What I don't like is her coming back to PV over and over, plus there's a sense of tunneling I don't recall from her town games. I can't muster up anything more enthusiastic as a defense, so I guess my stance is that it's not a bad wagon but I think we're more likely to find scum in Antihero.

Toss in town reads on you, Bulbazak, and TSO, plus town leans on Thor and BRO, and smargaret becomes a decent lynch.

I totally got dinged for tunnelling Rachmarie in Narnia. I'm actually consciously trying to move away from tunnelling; guess it isn't working.

[smargaret]

And I will actually post significant content later tonight, but I have daylight-dependent things to do today.

[smargaret]

cxinlee is massively antitown. Post content or don't post, but posting just for the sake of hearing yourself type is essentially doing the prod dodge thing. Scorpion is town.

If one of the thor/porkens/bulbazak mess or zekrom is scum, then the other one isn't - I don't see scum trying to distract from distancing like that. Actually, if thor/porkens/bulbazak are town,then zek probably is too because scum want mislynches, and those don't happen if scum draw attention to themselves by blatantly not commenting.

That said, wtf? RVS is not inherently protown.

VOTE: cxin. Have opinions. Express them.

PV - the explanation of my zek town read.

I'm not really happy that I keep saying this, and you keep missing it. It reinforces my scumread on you. As far as part 2, I was trying to get any read on the rest of the playerlist. It was less a super strong town read on Zek and more a lack of any read on anyone else.

CTD, your main argument, other than my Zek read, which yeah, fair, is that I'm objecting to PV saying I'm scum for misreading Zek. I'm not. I'm objecting to PV misrepping me. This is something like the third or fourth time I've had to explain where the Zek townread came from. The fact that PV keeps pushing that, without addressing my answer? That's scummy.

i'm with whoever was saying that they're scumreading CTD. mostly gut from interactions with thor. also, he failed to give an opinion on my slot even though someone directly asked him for one; i think he left me at "mixed bag". convenient since i'm one of the borderline "might be able to lynch this" cases.

i approve of the marge lynch

So do you think CTD is bussing me?

Bulba, didn't you get that townreading someone isn't an excuse to not question them?

CTD not voting is scummy. /sheep

Thor - yeah, I'm feeling pretty apathetic about this game. I missed a week, and wasn't really at my best for a week on either side of it - heck, I'm still not back to normal. I'm having a hard time getting back into the game, and players like cxin and Yiley and to a lesser extent TSO are making it difficult. Add in my reads being wildly wrong, and yeah, I'm apathetic.

[smargaret]

@smarg

- Do you feel your answers so far have adequately addressed 884 and 885, as to the specifics of those questions?

Yeah, I do. The townread on Zek wasn't so much anything he posted as it was when (in the context of everything else being posted early in the game) he posted it. The questions were to try and GET reads in the first place on the other players (because no, I didn't have to assume thor/bulba/porkens town to get zek town, and if you'd actually read the dang post that I keep quoting and quoting and quoting, you'd see that).

Bulba is town. Scum is probably antihero/PV; CTD looks like (wrong) town, even if that unvote was weird and scummy. Thor is town, but I'm less confident of this than I am in my Bulba read.

[smargaret]

@smarg

- Do you feel your answers so far have adequately addressed 884 and 885, as to the specifics of those questions?

Yeah, I do. The townread on Zek wasn't so much anything he posted as it was when (in the context of everything else being posted early in the game) he posted it. The questions were to try and GET reads in the first place on the other players (because no, I didn't have to assume thor/bulba/porkens town to get zek town, and if you'd actually read the dang post that I keep quoting and quoting and quoting, you'd see that).

Bulba is town. Scum is probably antihero/PV; CTD looks like (wrong) town, even if that unvote was weird and scummy. Thor is town, but I'm less confident of this than I am in my Bulba read.

Right on queue!

Cue. And I'm early this time, just for you.

Answers please:

I'm objecting to PV misrepping me.

Please point out where PV has misrepped you. As in maliciously tried to paint you in a scummy light.

The whole thing about why I was asking other players questions early D1 and not Zek, and the presumption that you only ask questions because you find someone scummy. Also, the fact that he keeps pushing why I had a townread on Zek, when I've answered that question at least three times, probably more. Harping on the same point OVER and OVER again gives the impression that I haven't answered it, when either I have answered it or PV is being very unclear in what he's actually asking.

cxinlee is massively antitown. Post content or don't post, but posting just for the sake of hearing yourself type is essentially doing the prod dodge thing. Scorpion is town. If one of the thor/porkens/bulbazak mess or zekrom is scum, then the other one isn't - I don't see scum trying to distract from distancing like that. Actually, if thor/porkens/bulbazak are town,then zek probably is too because scum want mislynches, and those don't happen if scum draw attention to themselves by blatantly not commenting.

That said, wtf? RVS is not inherently protown.

VOTE: cxin. Have opinions. Express them.

I'm going to ignore the Thor/Porkens/Bulba side of the argument, because it boils down to "whether or not one of these players is scum, Zekrom is town".

Your argument for him being town was therefore "scum want mislynches and those don't happen if scum draw attention to themselves by blatantly not commenting".

I would say that cxinlee was drawing attention to herself by blatantly not commenting. She most definitely wasn't pushing for any mislynches.

Do you disagree with this assessment?

It was similar, but different. Cxin came in and started trying to build a wagon, without any commentary on what was going on - but still within that massive block of walls. Zek came in and dropped an RVS vote without any reaction to the argument.

[smargaret]

Bulba is town. Scum is probably antihero/PV; CTD looks like (wrong) town, even if that unvote was weird and scummy. Thor is town, but I'm less confident of this than I am in my Bulba read.

Penguin read?

Coming, probably tomorrow. Penguin and Bro keep getting conflated (thanks Narnia) and I'm having a hard time keeping them straight. I don't have a strong read on either of them, but I'm also not sure whether they're null-scum, null-town, or one of each until I get a chance to read thoroughly.

[smargaret]

VOTE: CTD

butt's in here

Sheeping CTD - this vote is singularly awful.

Unvote
Vote: Antihero

[smargaret]

Er, not sheeping CTD. Sheeping TSO and Bro.

[smargaret]

Bulba is town. Scum is probably antihero/PV; CTD looks like (wrong) town, even if that unvote was weird and scummy. Thor is town, but I'm less confident of this than I am in my Bulba read.

Penguin read?

Coming, probably tomorrow. Penguin and Bro keep getting conflated (thanks Narnia) and I'm having a hard time keeping them straight. I don't have a strong read on either of them, but I'm also not sure whether they're null-scum, null-town,

or

one of each until I get a chance to read thoroughly.

Why one of each? Do you think there's something in our play that means our alignments are indicative of one another? (And you can remember me as the super scummy one from Mini 1527, if that helps)

And no, I didn't come up with an opinion on the CTD-Thor death spiral. Heading home from vacation today, and I'll slog through it tonight in light of deadline being imminent.

I never said that you and Bro were differently-aligned. I recognized it as a possibility.

[smargaret]

Scratch that, you must mean the Bulba vote, which happened on D1 and fits the textbook definition of a RVS vote. In Cxinlee's third post, he started blatantly not commenting by literally refusing a request to comment. Zekrom, by comparison started out looking like he was at least trying to appear useful by asking a lot of questions.

To be blunt, I don't see the distinction you are making at all, and if anything, your reasoning for defending Zekrom should have made you read Cxinlee as

even more

town than him.

I can't really reply to this. Obviously, I was wrong - all I can say is what I thought at the time.

[smargaret]

Leaning town, on both penguin and bro, largely by process of elimination. PA is townier by a bit - she had more of the "oh, that looks town" posts when I reread. But at the end of the day, either Antihero/CTD is going to get lynched, we're going to have a nk, and there will be more information available, or I'll be lynched and honestly, given my reads so far this game I'm not totally sure that I want to put too much effort into stuff that's probably wrong anyway.

[smargaret]

and I'm far more likely to flip on one of my strong-town reads than on one of PA, bro, and TSO, based on what happens at the end of the day and overnight. So essentially:

Town: Thor, Bulba, CTD
null, town->scum: PA, Bro, TSO
Scum: Antihero, PV

[smargaret]

and I'm far more likely to flip on one of my strong-town reads than on one of PA, bro, and TSO, based on what happens at the end of the day and overnight. So essentially:

Town: Thor, Bulba, CTD
null, town->scum: PA, Bro, TSO
Scum: Antihero, PV

Both of your town reads are voting your other town read. Do you think Thor and bulba are just that bad at reading CTD-town.

And assume Antihero is lynched and flips scum. Since I know I'm not, and you claim your not, who is your next choice for his buddy?

Antihero's buddy - depends on what happens overnight, but probably not CTD. I don't see CTDscum voting his last buddy when I'm just as viable a wagon.

Thor and Bulba voting CTD - The argument on CTD is the bad meta and the bad unvote, as far as I can tell. This is why I hate meta as an argument, by the way - it leads to cherry picking and wall posts and is too easy for scum to fake. I don't think the bad unvote overbalances everything else that's making me see CTD town, and his reaction to Thor's push for meta looks town. Town caught in a lie - no way those notes exist - but it isn't an inherently scummy lie IMO.

[smargaret]

Agree on the mass claim, but I think PV should start.

[smargaret]

VT, spiderman. Mod obviously hates me - I'm arachnophobic.

TSO next

[smargaret]

Agreed that the pr's are probably clear - among other things, no way does scum claiming first put up such a high-stakes fake claim (especially without rolecop results saying town is largely vanilla), and masons aren't enough to balance the scum power alone. Unfortunately, this means I need to reread a good bit and rethink things.

My Bulba town read was because I thought his gut town on me was a cop inno. Obviously this isn't the case, so that's where I'm going to start.

Addendum to Thor's questions for the masons - if you're night talk only, did you get a notification when day 1 started?

[smargaret]

It has to be TSO and Thor. I cannot buy the idea that nobody bussed Zek, and Bulba claimed last - scum would have known to claim a pr. That said, I'm probably the lynch of the day, because I've played the world's crappiest game of mafia, but we have the mislynch and it'd be better not to have the distraction (and honestly, the masons aren't going to believe me until I flip). I want to go through and actually make a case, but I'm flying tomorrow. I'll have a case by Saturday evening at the latest, probably earlier.

And yes, I saw a cop inno in a gut town read. I was sort of looking for it, because with no town pr's flipping by day 3 as a vt you have to wonder, and I'll admit I've played a really scummy game, so I couldn't figure out why else someone would defend a town read on me.

[smargaret]

Thor started setting up an argument for why he hadn't been nk'd on day 2. That is really early - maybe because he knows he's not getting nk'd? And up until today, he and TSO have barely mentioned each other. TSO, on the other hand, defended Zek as hard as I did, and then has done nothing but push me and complain about how he's too busy defending himself to do anything else.

Scum is not Pere/CTD and scum is not Bro. That leaves me, bulba, Thor, and TSO. Bulbascum, going last in the massclaim would have known to fake a pr. I know I'm not scum, even though nobody else is going to believe it until tomorrow, but that means the rest of you need to get TSO and Thor tomorrow.

[smargaret]

And I totally missed the fact that I wasn't voting (and nobody called me on it? Seriously?)

Vote: TSO

[smargaret]

Thor, what meta on Zekrom convinced you that it was time to move from Bulbazak?

Because Bulba looked like he was panicking at being caught on d1.

VOTE: Bulbazak

BROseidon's entrance was incredibly bad, but he sorta got better, so I'm not gonna go after him for now.

Zekrom wagon is shamefully poor. No-one here can read him whatsoever, but almost no-one has admitted they don't have a clue about him. I'd be very surprised if there isn't scum on Zekrom right now, potentially multiple scum.

I don't think Zekrom is more likely to be a Village Idiot than scum. I'm saying he's an idiot no matter what and no-one here can read him for shit. Thus, as I've said before, he's quite literally a coinflip in terms of flipping scum.

Porkens calling it a policy lynch and a scum lynch as well really irks me.

if their priority was to protect a PR, I could see them trying to derail the lynch.

Agreed. Which is why I'm voting off the wagon today. If I'm scum in this situation I'm doing one of two things:

1. Hard defending so when he flips scum people are like "Yates was defending him too hard to be his scum buddy"
or
2. Finding *ANY* excuse to be on another wagon [in the hopes we can force a no lynch] while commenting as little as possible on my buddy going down

it's the going out and looking for a meta example where he misread zek that really gets me. That's where it crosses the line between responding to a question and overreacting.

It's you, isn't it? You're Zek's scum buddy, aren't you?

VOTE: smargaret

It feels like I'm shooting myself in the foot here, but I feel the need to point out that I was probably the one most defending Zekrom.

Though, I do agree with your vote.

Thor, you're probably gonna mock me at some stage. Better now than later, I guess.

More to the point, I think you're mistaking Zekrom being an absolute moron for Zekrom being scum. You have a lot of interactions with him which are just him being supernaturally dense as opposed to scummy.

Is this a policy lynch or a scum lynch

PEdit: Why would you ever suggest that?

TSO, this is you defending Zekrom.

And in the interests of full disclosure, here's every D1 post in my iso mentioning my read on him:

cxinlee is massively antitown. Post content or don't post, but posting just for the sake of hearing yourself type is essentially doing the prod dodge thing. Scorpion is town. If one of the thor/porkens/bulbazak mess or zekrom is scum, then the other one isn't - I don't see scum trying to distract from distancing like that. Actually, if thor/porkens/bulbazak are town,then zek probably is too because scum want mislynches, and those don't happen if scum draw attention to themselves by blatantly not commenting.

That said, wtf? RVS is not inherently protown.

VOTE: cxin. Have opinions. Express them.

My reasoning wasn't totally clear. It was 3 am local time, in my defense.

Basically, there's a big mess that I wasn't really up to sorting through at 3 am between Thor, Porkens, and Bulbazak. It looks likely that one or more wagons could conceivably come out of that. If T/P/B are all town, then scum would like to encourage those wagons - and not draw a lot of attention to themselves and risk derailing the hypothetically building wagons by trying to start RQS once the game has actually begun. On the flip side, if any of T/P/B are scum, or are distancing, then presumably scum-Zek would know that and would have a planned out response, and I really, REALLY doubt that any entire scumteam would argue for randomly starting RQS. It's WIFOMy, but I don't see any reason why scum-Zek would play that way.

That said, given the lack of a daystart PM, it's probable that the list of currently-active players is disproportionately scummy. Presumably scum would have been told to stop talking in the qt, so they'd all be aware day had started while town players had no idea.

Thor - what's the difference between lynchbait and low-hanging fruit? Specifically re: your reply to me about cxin and your reply to Yates about Zek. I'd quote, but ipads are annoying and I don't feel like switching to the real computer.

Porkens - Do you still think Thor and Bulbazak are scum? Do you think Zek is scum with them? Why?

Bulbazak, though - I don't know that I'd call it a flinch per se, but definitely overly defensive. Do not like.

Zakk - anything else to say? Because calling someone out around one post when we have seven pages of actual stuff to go on (as opposec to questions about emotional state) and then nothing else? That's a bit fence sitty.

cxin - It means don't active lurk. If you're going to post, respond to the thread or actually draw conclusions, don't just post "OHAI, I'm here, nothing to say!". If you don't have an opinion, reread the thread and develop one. What is your read on Zek? In fact, who are your top three scumreads and why?

Not sure bout TSO/bulb. Will reread later.

I don't like the zekrom wagon. I dont like policy lynches in general unless they're on scum.

Also guys, stop pressurising me to get reads/opinions, I scumhunt at my own pace.

cxin, no, you scumhunt at a pace that lets town read you. To do otherwise is antitown at best, scummy at worst. Speaking of which, you still haven't answered me - who are your top three scumreads? And how would you know that zek isn't scum, unless you are?

Yiley, we're past 300 votes. Do you have anything to say about the game, or are you just going to bandwagon away? I mean, Zek is pretty anti-town, but it looks more like anti-town than scummy. The join date, for one, and the question about emotional state? That sounds like transitioning from IRL mafia to online mafia. I'd much rather lynch the anti-town player who looks scummy (cxin). Or Bulbazak. Or for that matter, Yiley, for shamelessly sheeping.

Thor, I asked about the lynchbait vs low-hanging fruit because it sounds like you're in favor of a cxin wagon and less so a zek wagon (specifically, the reasonable to lynch lynchbait vs low-hanging fruit isn't alignment indicative).

Porkens, I actually did have a couple of opinions in the post with the questions, specifically that Bulbazak was overly defensive and Zakk was failing to take a position on practically anything, which for the record is scummy, but I want to see more of what he has to say.

Sorry for disappearing; some stupid person decided to stupidly spray stupid perfume on the stupid pool deck (instead of, y'know, in the LOCKER ROOMS THAT WERE LESS THAN 50 YDS AWAY) Monday night and my asthma objected. Vehemently. Protip: If you're going to get taken by ambulance to the er in nothing but a wet swimsuit, don't do it in the middle of February in New England.

cxin, with the amount of stuff that's happened in this game, if you can't come up with any content except a townread on Thor, well, that's why the meta is relevant. Because it shows that you can come up with content - heck, you can BS content if you have to - and you just don't care enough to. And players who don't care enough to play the game are a liability that, regardless of alignment, town cannot afford to have in lylo.

And yeah, to some extent the same is true of Zek. That said, the meta doesn't show that he's being willfully obtuse, and I think cxin is more likely to be scum than Zek.

So basically, there's defending a scumbuddy by calling the entire wagon scummy and actively trying to derail the lynch, and there's wanting to lynch a scumread instead of a townread. It's the instead of that's key here. And I have reasons for my vote - they're in my post immediately before the one with the vote.

Speaking of voting, Bulba, wantt to vote TSO with me?

Thor, I 'd like to see your case on TSO too, please.

[smargaret]

Fourthing the deadline extension.

[smargaret]

CTD, the difference was the timing, that cxin was trying to keep the major argument going while not contributing while Zek tried to change the subject - which actually makes a whole lot of sense for new scum if Thor is also scum, because that may have been Zek's attempt at distraction - but at the time, cxin trying to fly under the radar like that looked a whole lot scummier than Zek trying to change the subject.

[smargaret]

CTD, I have a slight preference for TSO, but I'll sheep either of those lynches.

[smargaret]

Actually, screw that. I'd rather lynch Thor, since yeah, you don't have to explain why you didn't do something, but on the other hand, we can still lynch you for it.

[smargaret]

PV, Bulbazak, what do you think of Thor refusing to explain how he let a no lynch happen instead of hammering someone he believed (yesterday, at least) to be scum?

And Thor, not that I think you will, but you promised a case yesterday on TSO. It's time to pony up, or admit that you're his scumbuddy.

[smargaret]

Vote: TSO

TSO and Thor are both scum, but rape jokes? Fuck that noise.

[smargaret]

Put another way - a no lynch is the most anti-town and pro-scum outcome possible from yesterday's situation post mass-claim.

[smargaret]

Honestly, I realize, I'm so emotionally dead on this game right now - I'm not even fighting my lynch tomorrow. I just don't care, because I am so frustrated by some of the play right now. i don't even think I'm playing all that great...but, yeesh. I don't have it in me to care anymore.

Edit: Pere - yes, I realize that all I'm doing is pointing out how fething stupid and blind his point is.

I mean, did he even fething think for one second about me NOT EVEN MAKING A CASE ON TSO!?! I mean, seriously, what the hell? And then he didn't talk to me, and disappeared, and apparently did it as a shockingly terrible reaction test (as least that's how he's selling it) while Pere derps around acting like he was remotely helpful on a day wehen, as confirmed town, he couldn't so much as TALK to his mason buddy and do ANYTHING AT ALL!?!

::table flip::

I'm out.

Take aside your personal bias, take aside his perceived insulting of you and look at this! This is so incredibly genuine!

Contrast this with smargaret not going after me because NO REASON other than she's scared of me and she hopes I'll back off her.
Contrast this with Bulba walking in after yesterday, doing no re-analysis whatsoever, in MYLO, and straight off voting me. No hesitancy. No re-evaluation. NOTHING EXCEPT A SHITTY TUNNEL WITH A SHITTY CASE.

And this post should really be the nail in the coffin of the TSO/Thor team. Massive defense of Thor, plus that last part, where TSO accuses Bulba of voting straight off the bat in MYLO with no reevaluation? That's precisely what he did to me. Voting, right off the bat, in MYLO, with only the justification that I am a "scumfuck". Come to think of it, that's precisely what Thor did too.

[smargaret]

TSO, no, it's not indicative of alignment. It is, however, indicative of a player I don't particularly want to play with, so if I have two players, and I think they're both scum, all else being equal, I'll vote for the one I'd rather not have to listen to and put up with for another day.

[smargaret]

TSO, I really, really doubt that anyone, upon reading your iso, is ever going to wonder why I wouldn't want to be playing with you right now.

[smargaret]

I have literally found myself wanting to verbally abuse the majority of posts made recently.

CTD, I'm not being the nice, happy TSO I was before because I know I'm going down today. Smarg and Bulba need only my mislynch, your mind is made up though you attempt to tell me it's not, and we'll find someone else to eventually hammer me. The reason I am being mean today is, get this, I'm fucking angry! I'm really, really fucking angry! I have reached out to you so many times and you simply fucking ignore me! I'm so pissed off that you cannot see what a scummy pile of scum smargaret is. I've tried, so many times, to show you, and you don't want to know. I don't get angry as scum; I've never once raged as scum. But I get very angry as Town, angry that you can't see things from my point of view.

AND ME BEING MEAN DOES NOT SOMEHOW JUSTIFY ME BEING VOTED OVER THOR. YOU DO NOT JUDGE TWO PLAYERS' LEVEL OF DAMN SCUMMINESS BY THEIR TONE IN THEIR POSTS. HOW THE HELL CAN YOU ACTUALLY BACK HER UP ON THIS?

Let me be perfectly clear: I believe that TSO and Thor are scum together. I will vote to lynch either of them, but i only have one vote.

Scumminess being equal, I'll vote for the jackass every time. The rape quip? That's just the straw that broke the camel's back (and if you meta-dive way back three years ago, I was calling people on it then too). That shit is just not okay, under any circumstances, and I'd argue that even assuming TSOscum is trying to provoke me, well, scumfuck is just part of the game. Rape? That crosses a huge fucking line. Adults do not fucking pull that shit.

[smargaret]

TSO, I don't have the strength to argue about this now, because you're scum and you can't appear to listen. But postgame, we are going to have a conversation about how tossing rape around casually like that is wrong.

That said, TSO/Thor is the only pairing that makes sense with the no lynch yesterday. TownThor would have hammered the guy he was arguing I was scum with. ScumThor would have hammered TSO if he knew TSO was town. The only scenario in which TSO does not get hammered is the one in which TSO is scum with Thor.

[smargaret]

TSO, I'm in Boston. Trust me, I know all about the church abuse scandal. And I'm sorry your uncle was raped - I know how much it sucks because I was too. Except I was just told it was "boys will be boys" by the fucking counseling center when I tried to report it. And when having holes poked in your logic leaves you in therapy seven years later and you still have panic attacks whenever certain songs come on the radio, THEN you can compare it to being raped. Read this link, especially the bit about rape culture being calling people who object to rape culture oversensitive instead of listening, and then fuck off. Because if you feel bad about perpetuating rape culture, maybe instead of blaming me for calling you on it, you should stop doing it.

[smargaret]

He's already said he's plumping for me, but I will not fucking be lynched tomorrow for being smargaret's partner. This is -my- lynch.

No, no, no, your lynch would be tomorrow on my timeline.

I don't think it's remotely impossible. Maybe it seems impossible to you, but it doesn't to me. I've got scum games I've won after openly claiming scum - maybe I'm overproud, but I find you trying to present my above plan as beyond possible to be pretty silly from my perspective.

I have been angling for you/Smargaret ever since the mass claim though...I kind of openly stated this.

My case on you is - all those fake posts above this post.

I claim you have no case.
I flamboyantly attack you for it.
You then claim your case is that my flamboyancy makes me scum.

So until last night, you've been scumreading me for no reason.

Keep flailing, Thor.

Ah yes, the ol' "keep flailing" tell. Because I am clearly feeling the pressure. I'm not even talking lynching you today, as far as you're aware I'm talking about lynching my scumbuddy today - and yet you're wailing that I haven't made a case to lynch you yet.

Hint: the case comes tomorrow my friend, not today.

So is the scumteam, in your opinion, Bulba/TSO, Bulba/Smarg, TSO/smarg, or some other pair?

I have openly claimed TSO/Smarg in thread. TSO has had many long rants about me doing so and it's the central basis of the current issue he has with me. I can provide a link if you need it, but I feel I've been pretty clear on my thoughts.

And are we really saying that Thor didn't feel confident enough in TSOscum to prefer a no lynch to lynching TSO?

[smargaret]

Unvote
Vote: Thor

I've explained many times today why Thor is scum.