Mini 1667: Dr. McNinja McMafia [GAME OVER]

[Bookitty]

Hi Soren!

VOTE: House

Apparently he's always scum.

[Bookitty]

Wow, I go out for one evening and now I have all these pages to read!

@Farside: It was not MY fault that we couldn't scumhunt together last time!

With the caveat that I am not at all sure I can read House, I'm going to tentatively put him at town for now. Yeah, he's moving his vote and suspicions really freely, but it's not feeling the same as the scum game I played with him. Anyway I do NOT want to lynch him today.

Soren and LaLaDucks look town too. I have only skimmed the last pages, but I'm going to read them more in depth over the course of today. My schedule is pretty jacked today and tomorrow (Age of Ultron, I'm so excited) but I will at least be reading the thread and posting when I can until tomorrow afternoon, when things get back to normal.

[Bookitty]

Welcome to my fabulous, spectacular Third Day of Day One readslist! Cookies and punch are available at the back, and if you don't see your name, I don't have a read on you yet!

House

- I'm going to go with town on House. Please don't sheep this read, because I'm aware that House is really good at playing scum. He seems really town to me, though, and I still don't want to lynch him today.

Soren

- I had Soren as town early, mainly for the fluff which is an integral part of his town game. Post 194 doesn't please me, though; I did get a mild town-read off Suzune for rejecting the WK. It's not until Post 213 that I start to lose my shiny new townread on Soren.

Farside where is this heading?

I never like this. Interfering with how other people scumhunt is generally a sign that you're scum. I'm surprised Farside didn't react more dramatically, though.

LucianRoy

- I have no idea what the hat buddy code entails, but I misread Lucian very badly early on in the only game I've had with him, so despite his WKing of Soren, I'm going to let this go with an IGMEOY for now. I can verify that they are friends, but I'm not on board with LR's read of Soren.

Suzune

- To me, she's obviously new to the site. I think it's weird that Farside picked out the easiest target to push here. Disliking someone's writing/playstyle does not equal them being scum. Suzune hasn't done anything I see as scummy so far.

BlankFace

- I liked his push on LucianRoy for the WK on Soren. I really like his vote on Soren and I do think his questions are on point and relevant. I have him as town.

farside22

- I do not like her push on Suzune for what are essentially playstyle issues. I do not like that she ignored that I was busy yesterday and couldn't post (I do not post on my phone because I have this weird penchant for being understood). I think I was pretty clear that I was busy yesterday (and will be again until later this afternoon). Farside tunnels both as scum and as town in my experience; in Quil's Smalltown, she repeatedly "misunderstood" game mechanics to push suspicions of me. I missed it early on in that game because I so wanted her to be town, so I'm not making that mistake again.

lalaladucks

- I had a gutread of town on lalaladucks based on her early fluff posting. I'm less enthused about things like this:

Yeah, it was RVS but then grapes has seemed maybe a little bit off, hence the vote remained. It's just a verrrrry weak suspicion though (I was in fact thinking grapes was quite town earlier)

Suspecting, justifying a vote and backing off the read all in one post? That sounds basically like what Farside accused Suzune of, but way more direct. Null read at best now.

Aeronaut

- Okay, I'm going to buck the trend of people reading Aeronaut as town. These bother me:

Yea, I'd like to think my scumgame has improved from my second game on-site.

He has a nasty habit of getting caught early, and these posts I've quoted are right in line with that.

I really don't have that habit

Aeronaut is a pretty swashbuckling player and these read as almost taunting to me. Yeah, could be scum.

grapes

- Way too hostile; I have zero meta on him (her?) though and no time right now to get any. I will do a meta dive to find out more about playstyle. I do think hypocrisy is a scumtell insofar as it indicates cognitive dissonance, for the record.

To everyone

: Sorry for not participating more yesterday. I did warn you!

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Soren

[Bookitty]

I don't understand the question.

Your white-knighting of Suzune made me feel twitchy about you; her repudiation of it made me think she was more townie for it.

[Bookitty]

I still don't think I understand your question. Are you asking me what the purpose of your white knighting was in this case (spoiler: I don't know your motivations) or why scum white-knight in general?

[Bookitty]

Yup boo is scum this game.

Either you're scum again or I'm going to have to retract previous comments about you being able to read me. Just calling me scum in every game isn't the same as having an ability to read me.

This game has been going on for TWO DAYS so far (it opened Thursday evening). I've been busy. Yet you're reacting like I'm avoiding the thread and not participating when I TOLD you that I was doing things related to going to see Age of Ultron.

You want to know why we can't scumhunt together? This is why.

[Bookitty]

Also, I want to watch Age of Ultron too. ^~^

I went in unspoiled and I thought it was awesome, so there's that

[Bookitty]

Okay, the

long national nightmare

weekend is over. I think I've apologised enough for not being here over the weekend, but in case I'm wrong, I'm sorry. I was busy, first expectedly, then unexpectedly.

I will verify that Farside tunnels and that she does seem to cycle through different personalities. This makes her hard to read both as town and as scum. It also means (as I believe is happening with Suzune) that she pushes people based on playstyle differences in some attempt to elicit a reaction that only she can identify.

I think it's really lazy on her part, though, to just point to the fact that I was busy (and had said as much in the thread) during the first two-three days of a game and base a whole scumread on it. It's also somewhat hypocritical given that she herself has been pretty distracted/busy during the early parts of games of late.

@Farside: Can you think of any reasons, other than my being scum, why I might not be so "fierce" in this game? Think about it for a while, please. Also, comparing this situation to the Titus situation is apples and oranges. If I'm going to dismiss a tell based on one game with one self-admitted outlier player, then I don't know what scumhunting tools I'd have left in the bag. Chase after me tomorrow if you want to, but back off today, please. I'm doing you that courtesy even though you're using the same exact tactics you employed in Quil's Smalltown.

Meh, I haven't hated Soren's latest posts. I'm not crazy about Aeronaut trying to characterise my play based on very limited experience with me, but to each their own, I guess.

UNVOTE:

[Bookitty]

Bookitty have you caught up with the game?

Yes, more or less. I need to do a real reread (rather than just a skim) to develop some reads; unfortunately, because I was busy over the weekend I was behind on writing deadlines and had to pull a near-all-nighter Sunday night to catch up. I'm groggy and I'm off my game right now, so I apologise. This will be fixed soon though.

@Aeronaut: How familiar would you say you are with my playstyle?

@Farside: What is your read on House at the moment?

@Soren: Lucian has a townread on you. Do you have a townread on him right now?

I will likely have more questions/comments once I've had a chance to study the game in greater depth, but there's where I want to start.

[Bookitty]

Sadly I'm still scum reading you.

Give it time. I'm mildly townreading you despite that, so I'm confident this will work itself out naturally.

[Bookitty]

I'm only giving it time because I like and respect you enough to do so.

<3 right back at you, but that's not why I'm asking you to give it a bit of time.

I don't think Aeronaut knows what he's talking about in regards to my playstyle. Your description is more accurate imo.

[Bookitty]

A game that includes town-boo would not be dragging; she's simply delightful and does everything in her power to keep conversation going.

I do try, but sometimes I too have things going on in real life and I can't be as active as I want to be.

Additionally, I dislike how you are putting full responsibility on me for keeping this game going. The last time I checked, I was not the only player in the game. I don't have a lot to say about lalaladucks' avatar (it's cute) or people's personal friendships (I have friends too! I DO! Don't give me that look!). I don't like the grapes wagon too much and I already gave a reads list in an effort to draw out people to say "OMG how dare you?" and that didn't work. I even feinted toward Soren to see if people would jump on that, also with disappointing results.

So, Aero, what are your reads? What do you think of Farside's suspicions of you? What do you think of Peregrine's awkward hop onto the grapes wagon?

I mean, you have a cute avatar, but you can't skate on that forever, especially in this game.

[Bookitty]

Bookitty was slightly scum reading me because of my interaction with you.

This is not exactly correct.

I thought you were town, but I jumped on a couple of things to push suspicion and to vote you because I wanted to see if anyone else would happily jump on that. I've played with you before, I think you're a fairly experienced player and I think you have a pretty level head, so I thought you would be a safer target for that strategy than someone with less experience in the game.

I was looking for overreactions from others (sheeping, votes with little reasoning, hyperactive defense). About all I got, though, was warm and fuzzy feelings about Farside (who I thought reacted properly).

I'm thinking Farside and House are town, so that's good. I also agree about the Suzune thing, especially since she doesn't even have seemed to look at the link Farside provided.

VOTE: Suzune

In other news, I got a full night's sleep for the first time in a week so I'm going to be going over this game with a fine-toothed comb and trying to figure out things more actively. I've repeatedly fallen asleep trying to read the first five pages again, so I'm not even going to look at those. I'll start a bit later in the game and look for stuff today.

[Bookitty]

It's awesome that you are reading me as town, but... why? Nobody EVER gets my alignment right on D1. I'm always nullread out of paranoia.

I am pretty sure, because in Delicious you were swashbuckling, devil-may-care, and it showed both in our chat and in the game. Here, you are being somewhat more careful and more directed, which to me looks like scumhunting and not posturing.

Also, you had the PERFECT excuse to push me as scum when Farside started that. You saw my scum game really recently and you could have used paranoia as an excuse to jump on my wagon and ride it without much real resistance. You didn't do that, so I think you are town.

[Bookitty]

I don't support a grapes lynch. I don't see scum openly admitting that they are going to phone it in and I don't see scum behaving in such a hostile way when they were under suspicion. I could be wrong there, but I don't think so.

I do support a Suzune lynch or an Aeronaut lynch. I don't have an issue with Suzune's playstyle, but the content-to-noise ratio is pretty bad there and the Farside catch is pretty good too.

In the interest of grouping up on a lynch to get things done, I am going to:

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Aeronaut

I can also move my vote back to Suzune if that is the way we decide to go, but I really don't think grapes looks like scum right now and I would only vote there to avoid a no-lynch.

[Bookitty]

Bookitty are you swimming in scum?

I don't get what you mean.

I have more townreads than scumreads, but I think that's normal.

[Bookitty]

Meh. Not happy with replace outs. Not happy with wagons (both of the people with major wagons on them replaced out).

I feel like Aeronaut's replace out is pretty bad considering he was still being active on site. So I'm sticking there. I can move my vote to ensure a lynch, but I am pretty confident about Aero-scum.

[Bookitty]

I don't want to lynch Soren/VysePresident today.

I'm less enthused about the Aeronaut/Peacebringer lynch given the replacement.

I looked at Farside's comments on grapes and his/her non-response about it, and I agree with her about the cognitive dissonance. I don't know if it's fake, but it's for sure confused and nonsensical.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: grapes

We have a little over two days left to group up and lynch, so it's time to make a decision.

[Bookitty]

Everytime you say you think I'm scum I remember how you did that all through Quil's Smalltown and I grit my teeth and try to ignore it.

I think I'm actually more justified than you are in my paranoia.

[Bookitty]

super shallow and all around bad reason to town read somebody plus the 'i could be wrong' which is fucking wishy washy hedge ughhhhhhh this is probs scum guys

For the record:

Nominate Bookitty for I could be wrong, which seems to be her catchphrase. I do think this is mostly ongoing games, though there might be something that isn't.

I'm out for the evening, but I'll check in when I get home assuming it isn't too ungodly late.

[Bookitty]

I don't want to lynch Soren/VysePresident today. While I'm not thrilled with his one replacement post, I still don't think that slot is scum.

We have a little more than a day left to achieve a lynch. I think grapes is at L-2 right now, but that could be wrong so please check for yourself.

[Bookitty]

If you're serious, try voting VysePresident.

Soren has been replaced.

[Bookitty]

Doesn't change the fact I was trolling my scumread by placing a vote on a slot she was defending, though.

Your vote's been there all along. I just assumed you didn't realise that that slot had been replaced and kept trying to put a vote on someone who wasn't in the game anymore.

[Bookitty]

She is still keeping her options open for scum reads.

I was reading over the game a bit last night. I think this quote (about Suzune) is a little ironic because Farside has expressed scumreads on practically everyone in the game except House. Her townread on him goes unquestioned even though he was quick to ask me why I was townreading him (and I told him).

This feels a LOT like Smalltown, Farside, because it doesn't really seem to matter what I do. You just keep sneaking in the scum-read comment on me without a real basis for it. Where's the case?

[Bookitty]

Options open.

Pfft

I have not called lala scum and would not lynch her.

You've narrowed down the people you would lynch to the entire game minus three? Wow, you're right, you haven't kept your options open at all!

You started claiming to scumread me because I was busy during the first part of the game. Since then, pretty much every time I've posted you've reminded everyone that you thought I was scum. I asked you to back off on the thought that you might be town. I've tried to scumhunt by pushing Soren and seeing who would jump on that. You yourself have admitted that the amount of fluff in this game has been demotivating and difficult, but apparently that only applies to YOU and not to anyone else. You've paired me with pretty much everyone I've interacted with in any way and some I haven't had meaningful exchanges with.

How is this not EXACTLY what you did to me in Smalltown? It sure as heck feels the same to me. I misread you as town there because I wanted to; I won't make that mistake again.

[Bookitty]

Yea I totally listed 3 players as a scumteam.
Wow look at me my options are waaaaay open.

Pfft.

You didn't do that until AFTER I accused you of keeping your options open.

It's also interesting that your vote is on a fourth party altogether.

[Bookitty]

I don't know if grapes is scum or town.

You were perfectly willing to vote me as a vanity vote and you've jumped your suspicions around repeatedly in the last two days, so your concern regarding my vote on grapes comes a little too late to ring true. If it bothered you, why didn't you say anything at the time?

I've kept my vote on the wagon I thought had the best chance of being scum out of the available and viable options. You've jumped around repeatedly to follow whatever whim hit you at the moment. Which of us has made it less likely that we'll actually get a lynch today? Serious question.

[Bookitty]

Make a case, then. I'm done giving you the benefit of the doubt. Calling me scum in EVERY game does not translate into you being able to read me and I feel pretty stupid for thinking that it did.

[Bookitty]

Maybe because I didn't play with you in Survivor until very late in the game and when I DID I was in the position of trying to protect you against people who were trying to lynch you for stupid reasons. You were town in that game, for sure, and so was I. You didn't try to push amorphous suspicion on me "just because" and you didn't keep repeating the "Boo is scum for stupid fucking reason mantra" that you apparently don't like when it's done to you, but you have no problem doing to me.

[Bookitty]

The thing I noted the most was the aero call out and then switching that with oh a replacements here. If the guy is freeking posting elsewhere on ms and he's avoiding coming back how the f is a replacement changing that at all?

When I moved my vote to grapes, I was one of only two people voting Aeronaut/Peacebringer. You jumped off before that. It wasn't a viable wagon at that point.

Yeah, I don't know if grapes is scum. Maybe, maybe not, but I preferred him a lot over the Soren wagon which I thought was on town. You've come to that conclusion suddenly yourself, wow, excite.

So what's your point again?

[Bookitty]

And I AM voting for Grapes. I'm just sure of it. So your argument there depends on:

Boo won't vote Grapes! OMG she must be scum with him (right? Otherwise why does it matter?)

Boo voted Grapes! OMG she must be scum anyway!

OMG, someone else noticed my crap case! They must be scum too!

Jeez Louise. Really?

[Bookitty]

I agreed that you made a decent point on grapes. I didn't think you were scum at that point, Farside. But then I reread the game.

[Bookitty]

Day 1, Vote Count #18

Current Vote Count:
(0) Bookitty
(0) d3x
(1) House -- Katsuki
(4) VysePresident -- grapes, Suzune, d3x, House
(0) LucianRoy
(0) Suzune
(1) BlankFace -- VysePresident
(0) farside22
(1) PeregrineV -- BlankFace
(0) lalaladucks
(0) Katsuki
(0) PeaceBringer
(5) grapes -- PeregrineV, farside22, PeaceBringer, Bookitty, lalaladucks

There's our latest vote count by my reckoning. We have less than a day to achieve a lynch.

You make Peacebringer a viable wagon and I'll happily join based on Aero's play and my dislike of the VysePresident-Soren wagon. But this looks to me like yet ANOTHER attempt to derail a wagon on your part.

@Peregrine: You get that we have less than a day left to get a lynch? What are you doing?

[Bookitty]

Yeah your whole case is zog meta!

What is zog meta, please?

[Bookitty]

Then why do you want ME to change my vote, Farside?

Peacebringer agrees with you, so maybe you ought to try to flashwagon me, since I'm apparently scum with everyone else in the game according to you.

You're playing scummy. You're pushing a case that essentially devolves to: This game opened right before the opening weekend for Avengers 2: Age of Ultron and therefore Bookitty must be scum for preferring to go out and watch that with her friends than to play this game the instant it opened.

It's ridiculous and you ought to know better.

[Bookitty]

I thought you weren't moving your vote? Yeah, I'll flashwagon that, I've preferred that pretty much all along.

[Bookitty]

I got the Survivor reference, yeah. I don't think it's analogous in the least. I don't know what other one you referred to, though, Farside.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: PeaceBringer

@Peacebringer: I was not part of the BlankFace wagon. If you meant something else that I was "part of", please clarify.

[Bookitty]

Dammit. I did NOT SHEEP you Farside because I typed this out before you posted.

Technically you sheeped ME and you ought to be ashamed for posting first and making it look otherwise.

[Bookitty]

No. She's saying that Blank is only scumreading HER for scumreading me and not you for scumreading me.

The screw you was to Blankface and myself, I think.

[Bookitty]

We have eight hours to achieve a lynch, Peregrine.

You just started a one-person wagon.

How do you think that will help?

[Bookitty]

Interesting.

Vote: laladucks

Is someone else voting Lalala right now?

If so, I missed it.

[Bookitty]

Pretty sure that's a reference to this:

Paradise Lost

[Bookitty]

Boo's totally unofficial and not to be trusted vote count:

Current Vote Count:
(0) Bookitty
(0) d3x
(1) House -- Katsuki
(2) VysePresident -- Suzune, d3x
(0) LucianRoy
(0) Suzune
(6) BlankFace -- VysePresident, lalaladucks, grapes, house, Peacebringer, PeregrineV
(0) farside22
(0) PeregrineV
(0) lalaladucks
(0) Katsuki
(3) PeaceBringer - Blankface, Farside, Bookitty
(0) grapes

Not Voting: LucianRoy

With 13 players remaining, it takes 7 votes to hammer.

Seriously, please check this. I think this is where we are right now but I could be wrong and if it is wrong I want to know.

Thanks!

[Bookitty]

Survivor does not count as you reading me correctly because everyone knew I was town by the time we even got to play together. I read YOU correctly there, but I was practically conftown myself.

In Drawn on Arrival you voted me by way of hello and misread my mason partner quite loudly. You didn't have a lot to say about me and then you died night one. I was town there.

In Smalltown you pushed me as scum for ~reasons~ and you were scum, I was town.

Mafia with a Twist 3, Sudden Dethy -- yeah, you nailed me as scum there. No question.

What's the other one that supports your case? I don't remember it.

[Bookitty]

I don't think Blankface is scum either, but I think it's just too late.

[Bookitty]

FTR no scum read on boo. Shaft was scum, aero was the sk. The other 2 were town.
I'll take that as good for day 1.

It would be more impressive if you hadn't done what you did Night One.

Nonetheless, it doesn't constitute an ability to read me; if it DOES, then I'm thinking you are scum this game because you aren't reading me right and apparently that only happens when you're scum.

And I have no idea what you think House's read on me at this point has to do with anything. He looks like sheeping you and you look like he's your only friend, so that's not meaning a whole lot to me at the moment.

[Bookitty]

Well, I have to commute in a few minutes, so I probably can't continue it. But what's wrong with keeping up the discussion in twilight? It's still time we have and are allowed to use.

Why did you think I would hammer you, Blankface? I thought you were town.

[Bookitty]

Anyway, it's she said she said. We're both of the female persuasion.

[Bookitty]

@Peacebringer: One good reason to look at you (apart from your ISO, which is pretty atrocious) is that the wagon on you fell apart in favour of a wagon on BlankFace, now known to be town. I think you were at L-1 at one point and refused to claim. This looks like BlankFace was a contrived counterwagon.

Can someone who supported that wagon (other than Vyse) please tell me their reasons?

I apologise for my absence yesterday; I went to see Mad Max: Fury Road, which was awesome. I'm not sorry I went to see it, but I'm sorry I didn't check in earlier.

[Bookitty]

Your ISO consists largely of content-free posts, attacks that prove you didn't really read the game (yeah, I still remember you voting me for pushing the Blankface lynch, something I didn't do) and lashing out at people who are scumreading you.

I don't think I engage in the blanket use of perjoratives. I generally pick the specific one I consider to fit. I stand by atrocious.

[Bookitty]

@Peacebringer: You can't both claim towncred for trying to stop the lynch of someone who turned out to be town and vote them. You can't do both. Additionally, and I know it's been pointed out before, you can't say "I prefer to be lynched over blah" and then vote blah.

You lack credibility.

@lalala: Got any lemonade? Er, no, not that. Can you expand on why you think I'm scum, please?

@Suzune: How does your argument about me jumping on the main wagons jibe with my preference for the Peacebringer wagon even when BlankFace was being lynched? Also, I was pretty clear that I didn't think Soren was scum, so you might want to read that over one more time.

[Bookitty]

@Peacebringer:

You are correct that there is no one right way to play. There are many wrong ways to play, however. You have undermined your own credibility multiple times:

• 1. You accused me of being a motivating force behind the BlankFace lynch when I didn't think he was scummy and I never voted him. (Note that this means nothing in regards to MY alignment, because I could have been playing for towncred in not voting him and WKing him instead.) Your failure to actually read the game with care, though, might say something about yours.
  
  2. You claimed you wanted to be lynched and then came back and voted BlankFace. This undermines your credibility in terms of motivations. It's also odd that you implied you were trying to stop that lynch; voting for someone looks like the opposite of that.
  
  3. You say that you don't care if you're being townread but you are really aggressive with those who don't townread you, all the while neglecting to scumhunt at all that I can see.
  
  4. You are currently undermining your credibility in that you were supposedly fine with being lynched yesterday but today you're throwing a really unpleasant fit at d3x, who hasn't even voted you and who hasn't done a thing to merit it imo. None of this overreaction is justified. Some of it looks like scum theatre to me.

In short, you have used up ALL of your credibility with me and I think you're scum.

VOTE: Peacebringer

[Bookitty]

Who was I addressing in the quote you took out of context "Peacebringer agrees with you"?

What was it in reference to?

How is it a shot at you?

[Bookitty]

Boo kitty you misunderstand the point I am tryin to make. I am merely suggesting that you are waiting until someone starts something and then following them, even if the current discussion is against your last reads. Or simply, you are waiting for the easy. It's tether then hung out on your own.

If you're arguing that I haven't been the paragon of independent scumhunting this game, yeah, I'm going to plead guilty. I have not gone against my own reads, though. I did vote grapes because deadline was looming and we needed a lynch; I was willing to compromise even though I was far from sure he was scum.

I've pursued my own lines of inquiry (ask Farside if you don't believe me). I don't see a lot of that in your ISO, quite honestly. Can you direct me to your independent scumhunting efforts in this game?

I have no idea what your last two sentences mean. Can you rephrase them to be clear?

[Bookitty]

Boo: are you mad at me for my day 1 tunnel?

Nope. How come?

[Bookitty]

I thought maybe scum was trying to strike an argument between us since we kept going at each other, well mostly me towards you, to get that ball rolling again.

That's possible. I'm feeling that sweet sweet chainsaw action for sure right now, one voting you, one voting me.

Suzune, what do you think of Peacebringer? Details, please, and a read.

Same question for Peacebringer. What's your read on Suzune? Reasons please.

[Bookitty]

[Bookitty]

I have some unexpected guests this weekend (I should know better by now than to answer, "Nothing!" when my family asks what I'm doing for Memorial Day) and so I haven't been able to check in as I'd expected.

For now, I'm going with what Farside wanted:

VOTE: VysePresident

[Bookitty]

I'm back, I'm reading up. I will have something this afternoon I hope. Sorry for the unexpected absence!

[Bookitty]

I'm fine with a mass claim. I think it might clear up some things. So my vote is for yes.

[Bookitty]

You okay with a mass claim, House?

We kind of need everyone on board or we're not going to get any good out of it. If you're against it, please explain (like I'm five, actually) so we don't do it if it's dumb.

[Bookitty]

Okay, stop.

I jailkept House last night to try to prevent him from being the night kill. I'm sorry about the lost night action but I was pretty sure he was going to get killed last night. That's why his action was blocked and that's possibly why we're missing a nightkill.

Mitzi McNinja

[Bookitty]

I jailkept Farside night one.

[Bookitty]

The only one I think is suspect here is boo, since her claim was wildly convienent.

How was it convenient, please? I'd like details here.

[Bookitty]

And why would that benefit me as scum, please?

[Bookitty]

Why are you dancing around the question? It's not that complicated.

[Bookitty]

And?

[Bookitty]

Why were you being hostile and accusatory?

I still don't see how you think it would benefit scum to step in and protect House unless you think he and I are scum together. Is that what you're getting at? Because your thought process is opaque to me.

[Bookitty]

I actually thought that 1234 and 1238 were kind of hostile and accusatory

You realise that you wrote 1234 and 1238? So are you being hostile or no?

[Bookitty]

I think being suspicious is fine. I couldn't figure out why you were saying you were hostile and accusatory

I obviously can't PROVE that I did what I said I did, but I think the evidence generally supports it.

[Bookitty]

For me it's VysePresident and Peregrine, but I don't have a third yet. I am in dire need of a reread.

Suzune, why did you pick the targets you did?

Also, I'm out of pocket all day tomorrow. Sorry, but I have a ton of stuff to do and I won't be near a computer until tomorrow night. It's not long enough to justify V/LA, but I want to let everybody know.

[Bookitty]

I guess I'm sold on PeregrineV; I do think he lurks a lot as every alignment, though.

This does NOT let VysePresident off the hook for saying why he thinks I'm so very scummy, though. I voted him primarily based on Farside's read of him (I had a definite townread on Soren) and his reactions have been weird imo. I want a clear explanation for why he thinks I'm scum or whatever.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: PeregrineV

[Bookitty]

So what did you see that made you vote "Suzanne", more commonly known as Suzune, Peregrine?

Are you EVER planning to be useful in any way? Because I feel very justified in being impatient with you in this game.

[Bookitty]

If your biggest contribution to this game has been to say, "Hey, it's MYLO, let's not get hasty" when you were one of the two leading wagons, then I believe that you've pointed out exactly why people would be voting for you, including me.

Do SOMETHING. Hell, make a case on me -- I don't expect I'll last the night unless I target just the right person anyway, but do SOMETHING. I know you're a good player. Demonstrate it here.

[Bookitty]

I told you, there is something suspicious about bookitty...

And then you backed off it when I questioned you. Then you come back to it.

Out with it -- what is so suspicious? What is that "something"?

[Bookitty]

I targeted Lalaladucks. I didn't want to target Suzune because she would lose the benefits of the motivate if I did (and I was hoping the scum would assume I would target her) so I targeted what I perceived as our next most important power role to keep her alive. My attempt to create WIFOM for the scum failed, though.

[Bookitty]

Excellent.

Well, I tried to motivate Bookitty so obviously that didn't happen...

Well, crap.

Though I felt bad enough jailkeeping you; trying to figure that out times two that would be a nightmare.

It's like, try to save your life but also render you useless for the evening.

[Bookitty]

I'd be a hypocrite if I judged you on that, Katsuki. I've come perilously close to missing submitting a night action myself and I know how real life can be distractive. That said, if you do it again I'll post a pic of Hello Kitty giving you the bad middle finger. I mean it. You bin warned.

I do support the RIP lynch, I think. Not sure that he's scum, but he's done nothing to make me think he's town here either.

VOTE: RIP

[Bookitty]

The short of my scumread on you is that your reads & movements all feel shallow. This is one case, while your Townread on Soren & Scumread on Grapes is another. I'll get to the whys of that tomorrow, or maybe tonight, if I can stay up long enough.

Ten days later, I still see nothing from you. Why aren't you making your case on me, if you feel so strongly about it?

Where is your scumhunting, VP?

[Bookitty]

Given RIP's very shallow approach to this game, I think he's very likely scum. I haven't been thrilled with your predecessor either, Sloppy Joe, but I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt there.

What is the basis of your scumread on House/Salamence? Is it just the roleclaim thing you mentioned, or is there more to it? Because I haven't scumread that slot since paranoia Day One if I recall correctly.

I'd like you to go more in-depth about your reads if you don't mind.

[Bookitty]

Okay, here's where I'm sitting (and HEY, I'm awake, I was just busy, you snick!):

I'm pretty sure Lalala is town. If she weren't truthful, then a townie wouldn't have vouched for her (Suzune said she was motivated for last night, and why on earth would Lalala-scum motivate a town tracker?

I had a pretty strong townread on House. His disappearance looks to me to be sitewide (if you have countering info, I want to know it). I usually think of replace-outs as scum-indicative due to experience I had back in the time when dinosaurs walked the earth and Lynch All Liars was accepted Mafia policy, but I think House likes playing scum more than town so I'm looking at it as neutral. I'm waiting for Salamence to catch up and tell us what he thinks.

I don't like that Katsuki seems to be setting me up as a mislynch if RIP flips town. The issue I have, though, is that unless I guess right tonight, this is MYLO. So Katsuki-scum has zero reason to push for a mislynch tomorrow unless she thinks I'm going to guess right tonight; it's like insurance, but I'm not thinking Katsuki is an "insurance" type player. I could be wrong there.

Soren is ALWAYS fluffy as town. If anything, I would say that he's LESS fluffy here than I've seen him in other games where he was town. VysePresident was a melange of broken promises and absence. Sloppy Joe has already made more of an impression and seemed more thoughtful than VP ever managed in his entire stay. I'm still a little twitchy about this slot, but I'm willing to wait and see.

RIP has been SO absent that it's really difficult to say what his alignment is; that said, he's not even showing up to defend himself. That doesn't look town to me. I don't know what will prompt him to post actual content if a wagon on him in what is probably MYLO won't.

Some questions:

Lalala: What do you think of Katsuki?

Sloppy Joe: What makes you think lazy town and not scum for RIP?

[Bookitty]

I was trying to play less than my townie town game day one because I was a power role and I don't like being nightkilled night one as a power role. That is why I kept telling Farside to back off, because if I'd had to claim I might as well have not been in this game at all.

I suspect that d3x tried to kill Farside night one and that I saved her from that, but she ended up dying anyway because vengeful. I don't know for sure, but I'm guessing that. As a one-shot, I would have tried to kill as early as possible; I assume d3x would have done the same.

Why is RIP townie to you, Salamence? Both you and Sloppy Joe are pushing this idea that RIP is town. What's your reasoning on that? What has he done that is town?

The answer to the MYLO question about Katsuki is actually in the post you quoted. If we don't lynch correctly, then ... and now I realise that they can just kill me and spare the agony. Okay, then explain to me why Katsuki as scum would need to set up a lynch on me or push suspicion on me? If we don't do it today, I'm dead and the game is over. I guess there's the possibility that you and House lied and you have a one-shot protect; that's the only reason I can see for doing that at this point. Both you and House are gambit-friendly players.

UNVOTE: because we're actually getting some decent discussion and I want to hear why I'm wrong on RIP.

[Bookitty]

For the record, I did get the motivate lala, but I cannot use it until tonight. I thought I might have leveled up or something...

It is not a fake-claim. Lalala motivated Town Tracker Suzune whom scum then killed.

The only way in which Lalala could be scum is if she is a scum motivator who used her motivate on Suzune knowing she was going to kill her that night, which seems pretty far-fetched to me.

[Bookitty]

Okay. I'm thinking about this and thinking about it, and something doesn't add up.

Looking strictly at kills:

Grapes was killed night one. If scum shot at the SK and lost their kill, then SK-D3X must have killed grapes. But as I understand the poisoner role, it's a delayed kill that happens the night after the poisoning. (or Twilight, but that makes no difference for this). So I think that scum must have killed grapes because I don't think a poisoner could have made the kill happen night one.

If D3X targeted PeaceBringer (something that doesn't make good sense for the gamestate, imo) or Farside, then the SK kill wouldn't have happened night two either. D3X was targeted twice because he was one-shot bulletproof or he wouldn't have died.

Lalala:

Why did you motivate Peacebringer Night One? Apologies if I've asked this before, but I think it's important.

@MOD:

Hypothetically, if a killing role was motivated, would they get two shots on the same target, two separate shots or would it be at their discretion?

[Bookitty]

If a factional kill can't be motivated then I stand by my townread on Lalala. But it doesn't explain why D3X died. There's an extra shot in there somewhere.

[Bookitty]

No mafia hit him twice for reasons unknown.

How, though? Poison is delayed, isn't it?

So who killed Grapes?

@SloppyJoe: If there were three mafia left we would have lost already. Number of mafia < three.

[Bookitty]

Well, I don't think there could be another Serial Killer unless there is no Mafia at all due to lack of nightkills. I seriously doubt I protected the right people to prevent an extra kill all through the game. (Though if I did that would be AWESOME!)

One scum would be weird imo. I guess it's possible. I think it's safer to assume worst case scenario here, though.

[Bookitty]

Boo, I believe SK could only Kill or Poison, not both. D3x chose to kill Grapes. There is no poison

Okay, so scum tried to kill D3X night one and managed it night two? I guess that makes sense. So they weren't aiming for Farside if that's right.

[Bookitty]

I am feeling increasingly okay about a Katsuki lynch (though I think Katsuki-scum indicates RIP-town, and I'm not sold there yet).

I do have some questions:

Katsuki, you were scumreading House for "fishing for modkills" here:

I've yet to see a player fishing for modkills flip town. House should know better as well, his push there was terrible and those emotions were fake.

And earlier you were speculating that House and I were the scumteam, but your vote landed on RIP. Can you explain how these reads have evolved? Are you still suspicious of Salamence?

Lalala, what's your read on Katsuki right now? Earlier I was sort of confused with the Cara thing; can you shed any light on that? Did you think she was buddying you at the time?

For myself, I'm really not liking this:

Oh I'm gonna be semi-V/LA for the next month but it shouldn't make too much difference because this is one of those games where I'll probably lurk until late-game anyways. It's good for me too because it's been a while since I've lurked for months on end and I really want to re-establish that playstyle.

But I don't know if Katsuki normally lurks as scum or as town, so I could use some help on this if anyone has firsthand experience.

Thanks!

[Bookitty]

I have read Katsuki's ISO five times now. My head hurts and I'm tired of that.

@Katsuki: Why, if you think that Sala and I are a scumteam, did you vote RIP? I don't get how that follows at all. Also, you and I agree that Lalala is town. Why do you think that, though? Have you read the game in part, not at all, or in ISO?

[Bookitty]

More to the point, what made you think RIP needed rope, please? (I knew I was forgetting something.)

[Bookitty]

But yeah, BooKitty should have said something (anything). Staying silent is super scummy.

Seriously? This is why I periodically consider dropping Mafia. Did it escape you that last night was the Game of Thrones finale and that some people have to work during the week? Chill out!

I hope RIP flips scum, but given the absolute train wreck that happened yesterday and this morning, I'm not tremendously optimistic.

[Bookitty]

AtE some more Boo.

Its over.

Was it you and Kats or was Lalala scum after all?

[Bookitty]

I was really sure Lalala was town.

I tried, anyway

Sorry to RIP for suspecting you early. And GG, Sala and Lalala. <3

[Bookitty]

Lalala is conftown via Suzanne what you talking about

Is RIP scum or not? Because you said it was over; that implies RIP town. Yes or no?

[Bookitty]

I kind of feel like I am being trolled.

Anyway, I have plans for this evening so I probably won't be around; either the game is over or Skull will lock the thread.