Mini 1670 - WTF MAFIA

[Bellaphant]

VOTE: ricastlefor stalking me.

I have no idea what's going on.

[Bellaphant]

Tree-stumps?

[Bellaphant]

Yeah, if you are offering.

Wondering about lynching McMenno just to get his weird role out of the way.

[Bellaphant]

Is it 'You are Mafia?'

[Bellaphant]

No, elu-lovely, I kinda wish it did though. There would have been a lot less of this face ---> 0.o

[Bellaphant]

+1 to elu

(my role is really elu-sheeper).


With McMenno, the 'who kills me loses' thing is the bit I'm having problems with: surely this only applies to night actions?

[Bellaphant]

Oh, sorry, reading fail. Well, that's just odd.

[Bellaphant]

Okay, so it doesn't seem like we are in mylo. I've never played any WTF or bastard, so this a learning experience for me.

What if McMenno is 3rd party to start with? alignment change then kinda makes sense. There is more than 1 set of '3rd party'. Ika's post has also got me worried about zombies!

Currently a little worried about Bins, and I think Drixx is probably town, but should definitely follow-through with the hammer - (is this still a thing?)

[Bellaphant]

oh?

[Bellaphant]

True, Brantz: I think scum will have hedged their bets and there is at least one in either camp. My main worry is he doesn't have much incentive to actually scum-hunt, as the odd are in favour of cruising to the end. If we have another townie run up, who claims a useful role, it might be worth lynching him to stop any town with a protective role outing too early

@Brantz: can out with role info straight away (weird when McM did it, weird when she did it), then explained it was only part of a '4 part role', even though at least mine and elusive's were pretty short, and I feel like she's posted a lot without me being able to get an obvious read on her, which was very different to her style in our last game. I'm feeling the same way about Ricastle as well, tbh.

What do you think we should do next, Brantz? Has anything pinged for you, yet?

I'd like a vote-count soon!

p-edit, Ricastle, like a cop? It might come back with roles, not alignment?
pp-edit: he's certainly not town-motivated. I dunno if that makes him flat out scum, or other third party.

[Bellaphant]

Eh, maybe it's the set-up making me paranoid.

Your thought about l-1 is interesting, though: wanna speed wagon someone with me?

Also, we have a day-vig?!

[Bellaphant]

I think Drixx might be vig?

VOTE: drixx

[Bellaphant]

UNVOTE: drixx

Got vig confused with SK/third party. *derp*

[Bellaphant]

@bins, he was scum-reading flub (or at least heading that way) and if he was sk/third party it would make sense (or, in my last game sk/third party shot scum). Clearly I got confused, so that's why I unvoted.

@brantz, normally I'm the opposite, though. To be fair, I've been reading most of today rather than posting, so by interacting with bins I feel a bit better. Maybe it's similar to what OddM is saying.

[Bellaphant]

Two things: did anyone see the mod-error? Also, do we know which 'vote' flub used on McM? - Does the threshold thing still carry-through?

[Bellaphant]

Surely scum would go hunting in the night, and not, you know, in the thread? We just played in a 3rd party sk game and I find it weird that you wouldn't at least consider that's where my head was at.

Also, Jeanne, what?

[Bellaphant]

@drixx, I got confused. Hence the immediate unvote.
@ mcmenno, interesting... Why that vote?

Also, jjeanne trying to.find the gun bearer after scum got shot Is wierd.

[Bellaphant]

...so whoever does hammer is conf. Town or 3p? Interesting. Also, odd and wanderers posting has impressed me so far and I'd like to see more from them.

Mcmenno does need to scum hunt, though - if he coasts through the game he isn't helping town

I'm.wondering if the 'flip' thing mcmenno said he saw in Flub's death suggests more people might Alignment chang?

Also, seeing Flub's wierd vovoting role makes me feel a bit better abiut bins' claim.

[Bellaphant]

Yeah, why are you so set on lynching bins? Is it just her claim? If she got clarification she's not hated In lylo I don't see the issue. Bins v mcmenno seems like you are setting up a false dichotomy.

[Bellaphant]

Shos, I think that is true aa drixx mentioned crumbing but the only thing I could find is normally a scum role.

[Bellaphant]

As you were talking about roles not equaling alignment. I thought I was contributing useful info.

[Bellaphant]

As you were talking about roles not equaling alignment. I thought I was contributing useful info.

[Bellaphant]

Yeah.

Bins is actually probably town. Worried about shos being overly aggressive and setting up a potential t v t in bins/mcmenno. Also, jeanne needs to post some content.

[Bellaphant]

UNVOTE:

Good idea, bins: where would you start?

@mod, can we get a vote count

before I vote anywhere?

[Bellaphant]

I'm not scum, lurking seems like a scum tell for mcmenno.

I'd disagree. Even though I probably can't prove it.

Also, he's claimed third party -

a scum role not aligned with anything and is survivor-like.

I doubt he's going to be more useful than his town or scum game.

A PL on town is always dumb.

Can we stop distracting this game?

Okay, I was definitely wrong about Bins. She's my strongest town-read. However, she is asking people to address the bigger picture but not making many moves herself (not that a bunch of people aren't guilty of this).

VOTE: Derangement

Might as well return here unless anyone can posit a better lead. Flubber might have been trying to divide my scumread on Deranged onto elusive.

I think you are correct here. I've re-read the game and Derangement is (was) posting a lot without adding much new content. I think Flub could've been trying to re-direct you from scum onto town.

@Ric: He is right now already actively out to kill town. He has to survive, remember? If a third party kills mcmenno, and then that 3rd party gets lynched or killed later, mcmenno will have won the game.
I don't want to have mcmenno against us during lylo, but I really think we can win this before we actually hit lylo so why worry about that? Before that, he won't be a problem. We can now all agree L-2 will equal L-1 in case mcmenno is on the bw and that's another problem out of the way. We just need 2 hammerers instead of 1 to make sure the lynch is going through. Wouldn't that make scumhunting through vca even easier?

I'm running under the assumption there is more than 1 3rd party, only one of which wins with scum. This is supported by the Flubber kill - I think one 3p MUST win with town. We've only got two scum left now, and assuming someone has an aggressive night action I think town is in a good place.

I might as well set up some codes, now that it has calmed down a bit. I will use these codes when I'm killed by scum. If I'm lynched, then I'll just fuck around, I guess.

If I vote a player, I (obviously) scumread them.

If I vote a player, but immediately unvote them after that, I townread them.

If I vote someone twice in a post, then I have information from town players in the dead PT that they are scum.

If I vote someone, then vote no lynch, then I have information from town players in the dead PT that they are town.

I have a really hard time believing that someone will have access to the dead thread and be able to use coded communication in this way. This just seems less and less plausible as time goes on.


In other news, I need a V/LA until Sunday evening. I'll be offline sitewide. See ya'll then.

If you have a hard time believing these things, maybe you shouldn't have signed up for a game called "WTF Mafia".

The only good thing about McMenno's role is that he seems to be a spanner in the works for scum, too.

Anyway, onto the scum-hunting. VOTE: Derangement for fixating on the McMenno issue, posts not ringing true and not actively scum-hunting.

[Bellaphant]

Really like 253, but I'm not really seeing what people are reacting so badly to about OM. I think I need more content there.

Shos, Derangement, Jeanne and Brantz are my current scum-spects (with McM being a whole different ball game), but I could be swayed on OM if I'm missing anything. Elu, wanderer, thoughts?

Wanderer's confusion over bins looks a bit iffy too, as does her town-read of Derangement, but some of her other reads seem okay.

OM, what are your thoughts on ric's votes?

[Bellaphant]

Shos, how come in between one post and another you explain your vote on me is 'coz you are scum-reading me, and then in literally the next post you don't even remember I'm in the game? o.0

(I'm female too, btw).

[Bellaphant]

ika , for morning, jeanne, odd and derangement are way overdue a prod.

[Bellaphant]

Also, @bins, should I change my avi?

[Bellaphant]

....Wanderer is drunk, I offered to change the avi.

The fact you can't tell us apart AND you are being shady about explaining why you scum-read me is making me think you are fabricating this.

[Bellaphant]

ika , for morning, jeanne, odd and derangement are way overdue a prod.

...McM, are you going to post anything useful for, you know, finding scum, or are you really planning on strong-arming us to you coasting to the end?

[Bellaphant]

@shos, 'coz I was the one talking about it. Also, you still haven't clearly presented that I'm scum, while complaining about the same thing for derangement. I can flip my vote if you'd rather I vote for you?
Also, I do think at least one scum is lurking after that day-vig, yeah.

[Bellaphant]

They are probably scum because:
-rvs'd flubber and the response to him being shot seemed off.
- focused way too much on McM without being consistent and generating any new content of note (Seriously, 2/3s of her posts contain the word, or deal with, McMenno).
- assumed bins was scum/needed lynching because of her claim (bit like sho setting them up as a 1v1, eh?)
-Flub was trying to paint Drixx as scum AND reacted against Ric's vote on her (he also tried to paint elu as 'more scum' than derangement, re-directed Ric's scum read of Derangement)
-posting in general feels forced
-advocated a mass claim of roles for no real reason
-hasn't actually scum-hunted
-has gone into hyper-lurk after flub was vigged.


That was kinda painless.

[Bellaphant]

I think it is. Brantz is also like an hour off a prod.

Also, my new avi is the cutest.

[Bellaphant]

If shos isn't scum (which I'm kinda doubting) then the other scum (not derangment) is definitely hiding in the lurker pile. Also, solid posting from elu.

[Bellaphant]

Any other thoughts while you are here, ric?

and that's a prod for brantz

[Bellaphant]

Yeah, she had quite a few nulls, but that might just be the game.

Those look like reads I can get behind. Shos tomorrow?

[Bellaphant]

Do you know what?

VOTE: shos

Derangement isn't here and this is a much better lynch for today. We can come back to Derangement. (If peeps disagree, let me know).

[Bellaphant]

...can anyone help me parse that post?

[Bellaphant]

Shos is also giving the people voting him stick for not layout out exactly what is wrong with the flub/derangement actions when a) I basically have and b) it's Been summarised ny different people, when he couldn't even be arsed to set out his own case on me, despite multiple people prodding about it. It's bs.

[Bellaphant]

? Really? What has he done that is making you town -read him, against... Everything else?

[Bellaphant]

...what kind of meta? I've read his most recent scum-game and I'm not really seeing it.

[Bellaphant]

I'm assuming that 3rd party is something completely different, as there are fucked up roles. I am counting 2 'scum' plus...whatever. It might even be the one who shot flub, right?

Jeanne's comment about the gun-bearer was odd, her comment straight after about the game mix up was more so. I generally worry scum is lurking - this isn't new for me, or new in this thread I'm sure.

What's wrong with page 10? You did push bins v mcmenno. I didn't like it. I also agreed with you at one point and got 'how is that post directed at me...?', which...weird. We could just be not communicating, but ugh, getting this out of you was like pulling teeth and it's not a good way to scum-hunt.

Also, still a girl.

[Bellaphant]

Okay, I'm not up for lynching Jeanne.

Shos, I tried to engage with you and I'm not getting where the hostility is coming from.

[Bellaphant]

@shos Even if I was, I don't see the need for you to be rude. Chill, pls.

I don't know what's wrong with saying a third party could be the sk? I am relatively new, my join date is over there <---- (by the genders ) but, what could Jeanne be crumbing? (p-edit, I see now she's claiming, but I didn't catch a crumb).

How is page ten a strawman? You say 216 - 'I think this is a 1v1 between menno and Bins'. Page ten my argument is 'Bins v mcmenno seems like you are setting up a false dichotomy.' How is this a strawman argument? The other stuff was about roles/alignments, where I was agreeing with you. The rest of ten was other people explaining why a policy lynch was a bad idea.

My mind hasn't really changed on Jeanne - I don't wanna lynch her right now (scumspect means I suspect you - I still think the gun comment was odd, but with the lack of content it stands out), I'd like more content from her (and a response to questions) and there are better candidates from scum out there.

p-edit, hi Jeanne. You've got some questions waiting for you. You can explain your claim and your thoughts/reads as a good start.

[Bellaphant]

Yeah, that's where I am, bins.

Also, people scum-reading OM for his two posts (elu?), pls explain why.

[Bellaphant]

Yeah, @ Drixx, got any thoughts?

[Bellaphant]

Jeanne, please can you give us some thoughts? You mentioned your role. If you are gonna post, we'd love something useful!

[Bellaphant]

Who's really, really townie that isn't already voting you?

Jeanne, we do. I'm also curious about your role, as you said it wasn't a threat...

[Bellaphant]

Elu is voting you. @shos

@Jeanne, okay, that kinda makes sense but you must have some thoughts about who that might be. At the moment, you're kinda mis-lynch bait and I'd like to avoid that, kkthnx, so please engage with us.

[Bellaphant]

'Coz people could paint her posting without actual content as scummy.

Also, I have been asking people the same about oddmusic - are you reading me?

[Bellaphant]

And we probably won't need to in this set-up. However, if people are scum-reading OM (which at least one person is), who actually has a bit of content, I think it's a fair warning to Jeanne.

I'm not really disagreeing with you. Unless you don't think all town should be contributing, and then we disagree.

[Bellaphant]

@shos, but not gain for town?

That seems odd, 'coz McMenno makes whoever hammers him lose, now you are saying something similar?

[Bellaphant]

Shos seems to be voting for everyone... O.o

[Bellaphant]

Who do you think is lying, drixx? Also, bins has gone kinda quiet ( joined the club), which, ugh.

[Bellaphant]

Drixx, I'll add another question to the one you left out What needed to happen by post six? Also, I'm feeling a lot of surface comments from you: having read your games in the newbie queue I'm kinda surprised. Have you got any reads/comments?

Shos, I'd let the replacement answer my questions, but it's still a scum-slot for me for now. Right now, honestly, I'm just glad we're getting replacements. Also, shos, is there a reason you have three votes listed? (Apart from ika, )

[Bellaphant]

(maybe mcmenno Should hammer. Unless I'm mistaken, two birds one stone, right?) if I'm wrong, I think ric's plan is fine.

Drixx, did you mean me, not sns?

[Bellaphant]

That's a prod for Jeanne and Brantz as well, ika

@ric, does my mcm hammer plan make sense? He hammers scum, wins with town, yeah?

[Bellaphant]

Assuming Ric's vote counted (it's not in the latest vc), is that l-1? Nice post from wanderer there, I like it when you contribute.

@bins, anything jump out on catch-up?

[Bellaphant]

We could speed wagon derangement, but I'm worried about that coz ) we might go to no lynch with all the inactives /VLa, b) I'm cautious of lynching someone who isn't here to.answer questions and c) shos is scum.

Saying that, am open to others' thoughts.

[Bellaphant]

So Titus comes in and votes ric, who shos thinks is scum...

Shos, you keep saying I'm scum, which I'm starting to think is your post restriction - call someone random scum every 24 hours - and if you are a) scum (yes) and b) unlynchable we'd have to leave you to the day-shooter (vig?) tomorrow.

I'm gonna re-read this all.

[Bellaphant]

Who is math, titus?

[Bellaphant]

Thoughts on Ricaste and Elusive please.

Elu is town for me. Ricastle...I started with a town-read, but it's weakening recently.

[Bellaphant]

I think the DL is Wednesday? I dunno, though - it's odd that Jeanne's 'power' seems to conflict with what shos is saying.

We could hammer shos, or wagon titus - I don't think I've been reading elu wrong...

You, titus or ris is fine, bins. The Derangement slot not hammering shos looks kinda bad, though.

[Bellaphant]

What's your read on elu, bins? Just wanna sense check mine.

p-edit, ok.

[Bellaphant]

Reads on anyone else while you are here? With the lack of content, replacements, etc, I'm kinda struggling.

p-edit, titus, is that part of your role?

[Bellaphant]

ika, drixx is actually due a prod

[Bellaphant]

Okay, thanks titus. Any questions for me?

p-edit, nou is new to me too

[Bellaphant]

Okay, thanks titus. Any questions for me?

p-edit, nou is new to me too

Why do you think you can't sink your teeth into the game?

What do you think of Elusive being present on all the day's major wagons?

What do you think of Elusive just repeating I'm scum over and over again with no basis? Personal Vendetta or scum?

I think a lot of people are kinda disengaged/absent. The absence isn't helping me get reads...also, having people online and posting together like we are now is the best kind of interaction and it hasn't really happened before you and saint replaced in. I dunno if it's the set up, or what...there were people on the game-list which made me excited to play the game, but the mcmenno start, shos' repeatedly stating I'm scum without a case or, a lot of a time, a vote (and other related things) all helped. I feel like I made a case on my two scum-reads but haven't been able to make much progress.

I think that this elu on the wagons isn't as much as tell as it would've been in another game...we've really only had, like, 3, and with the inactivity we've never had two decent wagons consecutively, which would give us more data.

I still think your slot is a scum-slot, and I think she has made a case on your slot, rather than just 'repeating' as you say. I don't know your meta, but she seems to.

Questions for you:


Apart from elu, who's scum?
Why is shos town?

p-edit

@ars, I like your post a lot.
@elu, assume you were meaning Ric in your VCA thing?

[Bellaphant]

That's actually a good question, ARS: where are your scum-reads?

[Bellaphant]

Elu, who is newb-scum?

Shos, is that coz I'm first on your wagon? Also, that was the first post I liked from you...all game. I still think you are at l-1 now.

p-edit, @titus, it might a role thing. He's been mentioning 1v1 for a while

[Bellaphant]

I don't think anyone SHOULD claim to have shot flubber (unless they are scum. Which, wut? Why would Ric think that?)

[Bellaphant]

Oh, I didn't know that.

[Bellaphant]

Titus, what do you mean 'I'm ika on my role pm?' I'm not fishing, just confused.

@shos, from your pov, would lynching you, or ric, be better for town?

[Bellaphant]

My roll doesn't seem to fit, but I'm worried there is a scum equivalent.

[Bellaphant]

Ika, when is replacement then? Can we have a time/date?

[Bellaphant]

Ika hates yogurt?

Bins, thoughts on the shos/titus/saint/ric issue?

[Bellaphant]

Mmmm.

My scum-read on shos is dissipating quickly. His posting style seems to have mellowed today...


I've just re-read Ric's, mainly to see if shos had a point or was just being shos, and I'm starting to doubt my read. I thought there was quite a lot of content from him, but looking back a lot of the posts are 1-2 lines long, he asks a lot of questions without a huge amount of follow-up (such as questions to Brantz in 334 being his only mention in his iso) and actually, shos' accusation of role-fishing doesn't seem so far fetched; his first and second post are about roles and not a huge amount changed in his conversation with shos, and the weirdness about the hammer...

Ugh, I hate being wrong. Happy to vote here if we can't get a titus wagon. Feeling worse about saint as well.

UNVOTE: shos

as far as I understand it, bins is right about jeanne/shos.

[Bellaphant]

Titus, who is on your wagon right now?

[Bellaphant]

True...why would ricastle work with shos: if shos is scum and ric town this doesn't work for town, if shos is town and ric is scum ric has to put himself up for a lynch (could be town-cred, I guess, but it wouldn't last long), if you are both town we're just swapping one mislynch for another...it works best if you are both scum, I guess, and shos is lying about the 1v1 or thinks he can get someone else lynched...

Am I missing something?

[Bellaphant]

Ric, why didn't you notice your vote hadn't counted, though? Seems really odd that you were all 'I'm voting shos, I'm not voting shos, Oh dear I always have been voting shos...'

Shos, why wanderer?

p-edit, that.

[Bellaphant]

But, if anyone thinks shos is town - which, after being unlynchable suggests this, as it would be shitty for town if scum is unlynchable - then we should probably listen to him about the re-direct. Ric's vote confusion looks scummy, and we've had no real reason to scum-read bins or wanderer. The only good thing about bins lynch is getting rid of the hated. If we don't think either is scum, then we leave it Jeanne.

@ric, I really don't think the dayvig is scum? I don't get that at all.

@titus, my town-read has been on bins since early on, and I don't see much wanderer has done that screams scum to me, wheras the ric slot seems questionable, so I don't agree with you there.

mcmenno, why titus?

@shos, am i still scum?

[Bellaphant]

'The point I was making was that IF scum were to get both the unlynchable and the dayvig on their team then they would be invincible.'...' Therefore, my conclusion was that you were lying about your role.'

Why would shos lying even come up if you didn't believe scum had the vig? I literally don't get what you are saying here if not that.

@Titus, I'm not disagreeing with you, and if it comes to it we can lynch one of them. Thing is, if town as a whole believes scum is outside of 'adam and eve', then the lynch sucks?

[Bellaphant]

Titus, I really don't get the bins read, can you explain to me?

p-edit, @mcmenno, that is what it seems though. Plus whatever you are. Any thoughts/reads on the busy day we've had?

[Bellaphant]

How so? Ika said partie(s)?

[Bellaphant]

@ars, my role is totally pointless, but I think I've got a duplicate (or more than one) out there?

[Bellaphant]

This 1v1 is really skeeving me out, as I've not got much reason to scum-read either. Wanderer's claim is odd, but not unbelievable with Titus's seeing as I think my role has a cross-over somewhere...best case is bins and a hated dies today (can't believe I'm agreeing with shos).

Actually, p-edit, that. no lynch is terrible for town, generally.

[Bellaphant]

Why not?

@jeanne, you might as well tell us who you are gonna pick, 'coz it's basically a free lynch on scum if we get this right

[Bellaphant]

Jeanne, why do you suspect Titus?

[Bellaphant]

Okay, everyone now scum-reading Titus, why? She's being pretty ballsy, and maybe it's just the life the replacements have bought to the thread, but...

[Bellaphant]

Elu, on mobile right now so assuming that is the Shos wagon? Also, mine isn't a person, it's an animal.

[Bellaphant]

@ric, my role is literally 'you are a (type of animal). My role/power is pointless, it looks like trolling. IM pretty sure (will check when not phone posting) That either I've got a double out there, or ika messed something up before.

[Bellaphant]

ARS, can you only nuke VCs or not?

[Bellaphant]

Is that 'your' rule or the roles'?

[Bellaphant]

ARS, can you stop blowing things up until tomorrow?

Titus, did you say you were gonna do 705?

[Bellaphant]

I get what you are saying, that she could lie about town/scum on it, and it's a dangerous power, but I'd like to see it used properly just once. If the results look really scummy, we'll press the big red button, yeah?

[Bellaphant]

@drixx, you can give powers? Does it conf-town the recipient?

[Bellaphant]

If we tie the vote, is jeanne s power more likely to work?

[Bellaphant]

? I have? Phone posting at work right now so I can't find it, but I am called a dolphin and I don't have any powers - the ''thing' i do happens at day end/start - I flip. Ika won't clarify what this means, but as it's not Bastard I'm hoping nothing. The reason I've been saying I think someone else has th same is coz flubber 's death was put in the thread aa that firs.

[Bellaphant]

^ this, esp with the relatively little content.

[Bellaphant]

Oh, McMenno exists. That's nice.

I'm not on the list either

[Bellaphant]

I'm so confused right now: also, @titus, what does it say about me in the last column?

I WANT GIN.

Also, afk 'til deadline.

[Bellaphant]

Shos, when you say you cannot die, did you get told you were targeted last night or is it just surprise in general?

Little unsure right now on ars - scum can town firm too, but my gut is sending wierd vibes on ric, having reread over night. Shos asks a good question, though.

McmEnno, what was that vote about?

[Bellaphant]

Ric, pretty sure the set up is mafia, then a third party scum, then other third parties as ika set (eg mcmenno, maybe the vig/sk). Where are you getting this no third party from?

[Bellaphant]

Ah, gotcha.

[Bellaphant]

I'm quite sad that a) elu is replacing out and b) that my flavour role is so dull More thoughts in a bit.

[Bellaphant]

Ric, other than appreciating your support, what are your thoughts on drixx? He's playing the elusive (not the player) and mysterious card way more than I've ever seen from him - it's really unusual to not know his thoughts and it's weirding me out.

With ARS and shos being so vocal, it worries me that scum are hiding out.

ARS, seeing as you can't do it anymore (boooo, why?) can you explain more clearly about town-firming? As roles are not alignment indicative, would it be an issue anymore?

[Bellaphant]

Ok I can get that about scum but so far I haven't really seen furstration come from scum. Who knows, maybe this is my first.
I'm assuming that because 3rd party

scum

it's a killing role. There are other 3rd parties (at least a survivor) so why explicitly call only one 3rd party scum?
I didn't get a definite innocent (read my post again) but I did like Drixx and went with someone I had a townread on and my result didn't point to a need of change in read so I don't feel the need to out my target just yet. We all saw what happened to Titus..

@Ric (and everyone else curious about my target) for you goes the same I just wrote to shos. (Can't you guys just realize I have a plan and don't want to spell it out before I have something more definite?)

@saint: the thing is, we actually don't know. And your gambit yesterday didn't help in making you look thrustworthy to me. Could you please not vote yourself? Is there anything else you saw from either Ric or elusive that points to them being scum, besides the Flubber-interaction?

I liked Drixx argument on Ric visiting him. But then I also liked shos' argument about the randomized roles/allignments. But as Drixx said; why would Ric confirm a visit if he is scum? But then again, why wouldn't he want the towncred? Right now I'm mostly thinking Ric maybe recruited Drixx and now they're trying to both get towncred? I'm afraid paranoia is hitting.. Would a cult be too bastard for a role-madness game?

There is some good stuff in this post, apart from the paranoia at the end :

THIS ISN'T BASTARD

(sorry, I just had to) and the result: you are outed as an investigative, so I guess you are just worried about the slot taking retribution at you? I'm a little confused here. I've looked at your later posts as well and I'm still none the wiser. Have your thoughts on the alignment of the person changed?

The point about town-cred is interesting, but ARS seems scummy to me today, and she was also pushing Ric. What's interesting is her push on elu as well, who seems town-read by a bunch of people.

Shos' point about Ric's frustration seems like he's on to something - there's a really weird vibe coming from some of his role-spec posts, and he seems more interested in arguing about terms than finding scum. The BP claim doesn't mean a huge amount, seeing as the roles are randomised: there's nothing to stop him giving out a vest, using it to 'townfirm' himself in the recipients eyes and then get them lynched...

1. First time for everything.
2. all roles have been randomized with alignment apart from ONE. I'm thinking that third party scum is that one, and I'm thinking it is McMenno, but would really rather hunting the team scum first. I believe that the lone scum can NOTwin with the groupscum, because with any role division, scum would be really powerful to have 4/13. I'm thinking the dayvig IS the lone scum; it fits perfectly with the only one nightkill. There probably are other third parties but we shouldn't guess on them. they are probably lyncherstyle stuff, jesters or survivors though, with any mutation ika can think of.

re: your plan: could you link me to the posts where it is relevant? because I've no idea what your thoughts are in the game, you're way underactive compared to other players.

why wouldn't ric confirm the visit if roles/alignments are random? it gives no good info to town.

And cults are not existing in this game.

Yeah, this post is even better. I hate to say it, but shos is probably town. However, point 2 doesn't make sense to me: are you also calling McMenno the dayvig? 'Coz it looks like you are contradicting yourself. I agree about the other third parties, though.

Shos' points about Ric here are a better version of what I was trying to say.

Well that claim opens up new possibilities...
If Drixx was protected by that vest the same night, it's possible that one scum-faction tried to NK Drixx. I remember Drixx' claim very well and I don't get why shos is having trouble remembering because Drixx was very open and clear about it.

The result on my target points to him or her being the dayshooter and I really don't want to reveal who it is in case all the scum have nightkills and the dayshooter is town. And Ric's claim makes that possible again.

@mod, I assume if I ask 'would the vest work that night' I'm gonna be told it's at your discretion, or something, aren't I?

Just got thinking about that 3rd party scum. I think it makes a lot of sense that that's the one role whose allignment was already set. Assuming mafia has a factional kill aside from the roles they received, it would be very overpowering if roles like SK or vig ended up on mafia. Okay, saying that points to 3rd party scum being the dayshooter because if he isn't that, there is a town vig that could have anded up a scum vig.
About mafia not having a factional kill; that would screw them over if they don't land at least one killing role. So either the dayshooter is scum or there is one mafia-role that was already allignment-set. Getting anxious revealing my target, please discuss fast.

Third party shooter could well be scum, but just as likely be a town day-vig. I think we have to assume it's not a one-shot, as noone claimed, and hope they hit scum today.

Anyone who pretends that reads go from extreme to extreme in a split second (without investigative results) is lying to you. For much of yesterday's day phase I had a gut scumread on shos. It moved over the latter part of the day into me thinking he might just be aggressive town. He

looked

obvtown, but there were things that made me question. So I sent a very elaborate item to him and decided that a town shos would be completely open and helpful to me so I could work out some of the limits to a role that isn't strictly bounded. I don't believe that scum would want to help me figure out how to use my role optimally, therefore the things that made me think shos was town yesterday are reinforced, swinging the read strongly to town. I'm not particularly sure why this wasn't already obvious?

Also, it should be clear why I suggested that I had been visited more than once. No reason to out Ricastle as someone who gave me a bulletproof vest and paint a target on him. I really don't think there was reasonable pressure on him so I wish he had kept that to himself.

Hey Drixx, feeling much happier about your slot after the last day or so. Why do you think Ric outed himself? Also, did you think giving an item to shos was a risk at the time?

I'm waiting for Tere to post and...

mod, can we update post 0? Also, I'm sure some people are due a prod, as they've not posted this day-phase. TIA

[Bellaphant]

Drixx, I meant in general. Sorry, I could've been more precise with my language.

[Bellaphant]

@shos, we've got 1263 which is the claims. (wanderer, they were already there)

Also, I agree that scum didn't shoot themselves, although the 3rd party might have? Thanks for the mod-pointers, I could've phrased that a lot better!
Also, if you are sure mcmenno is lying, you would be fine to hammer, yeah?

@ric, why is ars scum?

@wanderer, I guess you might be right, but just want to add that ric isn't alignment confirmed, just role-confirmed. Also, a lot can change over the day: see drixx's complete 180 on his shos read...

Also, I misunderstood the missing information bit. Also, you aren't 100% convinced by the restless spirit claim? Think we're in agreement about the 3rd party.
what's your read on ars?

p-edit: ric re-summarised the claims.

[Bellaphant]

I'm agreeing with you?

[Bellaphant]

@wanderer, my read on drixx has been iffy, but he's a lot more town over the last day or so than he was last day-phase for me. It's unlikely he's scum-buddies with Ric, yeah. Also, my role comes with nothing.

Roles:

A Royal Saint: Post deleter who can get the alignment of a player who requests a deletion. The posts that can be deleted are only VCs by the mod at both day and night. - Some of the deleting was confirmed - agreed
Ricastle: Bulletproof Vest Giver - confirmed by ????????????? - this part was confirmed by drixx, who got one?
Drixx: Anything Vendor - confirmed by shos and ???? that's it, I think.
Bellaphant: Dolphin - confirmed by ????? My flip, at the end of the day. So, mod-confirmed, I guess
shos: Lynchproof Gladiatorer - confirmed D1 - mod confirmed
Jeanne11: No-lynch Governor - unconfirmed - agreed
Wanderer-nl: ???? -agreed
McMenno: vote-only Restless Spirit Survivor whose wincon changes to having whoever killed/hammered them lose upon death - unconfirmed - agreed
elusive/tere: Chairman - unconfirmed -agreed

@shos Titus said something about putting people in a room?? Maybe Tere can help us?

Also, I understand what you are saying about the McMenno lynch: it's probably need to be a majority +1? Also, I say, I just use 'upspeak', even online, apparently

p-edit, will need to read Tere's post properly. Also, shos, be better at reading!

[Bellaphant]

Busy right now, but I keep reading shos/ric/ars and being convinced at least 1 is scum, but my read keeps changing on which one. ARS's continued changing on her role looks scummy, shos does look more towny, and I can't get a handle on ric, which is worrying in itself.

However, I'm interested in Tere's catch up.

Also,

@ika, two people haven't posted this day phase, right? Can we get some prods/replacements?

[Bellaphant]

So, tere is town. I like the plan, unless there are objections. I honestly agree that jeanne could be scum: there's enough back and forth in the thread that scum could be sitting back. Actaully, teres readlist is good generally.

*Hugs* to shos. Intent to vote ars when I get home.

[Bellaphant]

It might be nothing, but jeanne replaced out of my just completed game in Cp without even posting and the slot was town

[Bellaphant]

Scum 6?

Also, what is the current vote count?

ARS, I don't get the scum-slip?

Also, Tere, http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=61865 - Jeanne's game. It flipped town, she never even posted/picked up her role.

@drixx, some sort of lie detector thing? Something that could 'alarm' the thread if a weapon was spotted? Like, an airport scanner?

[Bellaphant]

Ars is at l-2, yeah? Also, I re read the mods post and apparently day 2 + is only a week? So we don't have a huge amount of time.

[Bellaphant]

VOTE: ars
That's l-1
I suggest we leave this at least til Saturday, see if a vig shot surfaces. I understand if tere wants to hammer, though.

[Bellaphant]

If we are in twilight, good luck drixx, hope you come up with something spiffy.

[Bellaphant]

Let's wait for anyone to explain what they did/targetted/whatever, but I'd generally support that.

[Bellaphant]

?

[Bellaphant]

Hey shos. Me, you, jeanne, brantz, drixx, tere and Wanderer. Oh, and mcm. I looked at the list that you linked to, and I couldn't work any of the formatting when I tried to do it, sorry.

Any thoughts about what we do next?

[Bellaphant]

Jeanne, that seems a really odd statement to make? Care to explain? How do you know shos is town?

[Bellaphant]

Yeah, you don't replace out and keep posting.

Jeanne's scum.

If I didn't just have a game that ended in 7 fucking pages, I'd vote now. See this as intent to hammer, generally.

[Bellaphant]

^ good posting. Shos and drixx really need to commit something this day-phase. Jeanne needs to commit to replacing out (or not), especially before we come to deadline.

[Bellaphant]

Also, if the day-vig was only one shot, which is now looking likely, why on earth haven't they claimed? They aren't helping anything right now

[Bellaphant]

Then why aren't they shooting scum?

[Bellaphant]

I think jeanne /brantz should be the lynch for today. The fact jeanne hasn't replaced out is really telling.

[Bellaphant]

Shos, who do you think is alive?

[Bellaphant]

That's what I was meaning, wanderer. I was interested in who shos left out, though, so..

[Bellaphant]

(I am not very mature this morning so keep giggling at drixx 'giving something amazingly Sexy' tonight.) that aside, I really do hope you feel better.

Tuesday is deadline, and I've stated intent to hammer after a vote, but shos hasn't and brantz is Mia. Can we have your thoughts /reads list, drixx?

[Bellaphant]

Ok, but we're either lynching out of the town-block (and I'm not lynching Tere) or we're going for the people who legit haven't seemed to solve the game. It's shitty they've not replaced out, and I'm not opposed to lynching McMenno, but Jeanne's meta isn't, like, a made-up thing: from what I've seen, no-one's come to those who believe that Jeanne replaces out as town and gone 'no, you are wrong/lying/scummy for suggesting it because...'

So calling it a policy lynch isn't really the right framing for it, and it frustrates me that you won't engage with that.

But, shos, why wanderer?

[Bellaphant]

This is what I don't get: if it was just tere and wanderer saying this (or any other two people just flat out agreeing), I'd believe they were policy lynching and were scum. But this is my own personal experience too, which I've linked to, so shos pretending it doesn't exist is super suspect. I've read that pokemon game already, but thanks for linking

[Bellaphant]

Surely 3p scum should claim, not groupscum, if shos' theory is correct?
@ shos, wanderer still has some sort of investigation?
I understand what you are saying about meta, but your statement doesn't mean anything, as it's not the full picture. Also, when challenged about replacing out as town, Jeanne replaces then not-replaces, and when we talk about her '2 line posting', she suddenly comes out with paragraphs? Why is that not ringing alarm bells?

[Bellaphant]

Not buying any of this. When the scum-teams' necks are on the line, Jeanne suddenly starts posting, with support from shos? No one can read this and think it's genuine.

VOTE: jeanne

@ika, please prod brantz, I don't even think he's posted this day-phase

[Bellaphant]

FFS, shos is NOT confirmed town. I wonder who your partner could be.....

[Bellaphant]

WTF?

I just...what? Tere's gone to bed, scum, 'coz it's nearly midnight here. That's where I'm going too, because I can't keep my temper on this game.

@ika, that

was

hammer, yeah?

'night.

@ wanderer, you've been kind.

[Bellaphant]

Yeah, no. Two day stages to prove something? It's just a way of creating wifom for scum. more interested in the no kill right now

[Bellaphant]

Shos, I wanna hear from madcitrus and mcmenno. I'd also like to know about the missing kill - Any ideas?

[Bellaphant]

@Shos, if three are scum, then what are you saying about the scum-team, then? 'Coz I'm not sold on Tere at all.

Actions/Flavour are not not alignment indicative: for example, everyone is some kind of PR, but only one was matched to an alignment.

[Bellaphant]

Drixx, why did you mention the vest?

[Bellaphant]

Wanderer!!! Omg indeed. I was willing you to claim all week, glad it all came together. Can't believe 3p scum shot 2/3 of the SCUM! Sorry drixx. Anyways, I don't think the neighbourhood or the scum pt is getting released, sorry.

Gg all. That was crazy.

[Bellaphant]

I disagree, shos - one decent scum lynch, along with the 3p vig shooting flub day 1, and I think you'd've had it.