Mini 1702 - Time Travel Mafia - game over

[guille2015]

VOTE: Iceguy

I find that bulbazoor is the least likely to be scum at this point.

[guille2015]

How 'bout iceguy?

[guille2015]

VOTE: dominator

pushed hard for a obvious mislynch. fuck that

I can name several things in which I might place Dominator as scum, and this isn't one them. I wouldn't characterize his hammer intent as a push for a mislynch. The Worst offender yesterday was IceGuy, But I can understand the intent on that Wagon and the possible intent of everyone else in the wagon. I wish that it wouldn't have been a lynch so as to have question the motivation behind those votes yesterday, as I tried to do with IG.

As for Dominator's Faults:
- Dumb "a" Vote.
- Not answering my IceGuy question.
- Finding Bullbazoor null then intent on hammer (maybe intended as a pressure, as he explained today.)
- Regardless of whether pressure or legit, he requested for RC, which I find it was uncalled for someone who "Technically" had not posted.

@Dominator

: What was your RC yesterday, and what did you do with it.

@Hiplop:

Why do you say that bulbazoor was an obvious mislynch?

@Everyone

: I don't think we should reveal the current day's roles, but I think we have to reveal yesterday's Roles. I say a quick Round Robin starting with Dominator.

[guille2015]

The Worst offender yesterday was IceGuy

You do know what RVS is?

It looked like it had intent. At least to me. Regardless, I'm just bitter that Day 1 ended so quickly and I couldn't harass anybody on that wagon.

I coped Dominator last night and got no result.

[guille2015]

- Finding Bullbazoor null then intent on hammer (maybe intended as a pressure, as he explained today.)

this answers your question for me. By mislynch I meant a poor candidate for lynch, not necessarily on town. Trying to do the lulzhammer

No he didn't. Not even close.

Yes. Transferred mini-rvs wagon into a real wagon

The problem with this is that, by the time he placed intent on hammer, Bulb was L-1 (without the double voting knowledge). I wouldn't call that a mini-rvs. That had grown into a proper pressure wagon. They are fine as they tend to break RVS. Dominator's actions meant nothing to the wagon.

What do you think of my other points against Dominator?

[guille2015]

So, I think there is at least one scum among this group: Zakk, hiplop, Bella, Not_Mafia, and TheDominator

I agree with this list, except that I would not include Not_Mafia in it. And Bella To a lesser extent.

If you assume that Zakk is scum, would any of the others be scum?

[guille2015]

Why not me and nm? I know My reasons, but what are yours?

Because the wagon itself wasn't what was wrong with yesterday. And you two where just jumping on that wagon. I assumed that it was to create pressure on someone that stood out. I've seen it often and even drove a few myself. So, it means nothing in terms of mafia or town.

[guille2015]

Can we lynch a chucklefuck who rush lynched yesterday? Will catch up tonight

Can you find who rushed lynched yesterday?

[guille2015]

Can we quick lynch scum on purpose as fast as we lynched town on accident?? Please say yes

Yes! Let's lynch mafia who hammered

But there is no evidence that he intended to hammer.

[guille2015]

I thought the same thing as Klingon tho and I'm town

Can you specify?

[guille2015]

I, zakk:

a) didn't really thoroughly read the rules/op
b) didn't realize all power roles rotated daily
c) thought mayor was a special role that rotated daily due to flavor
d) assumed somebody else was a double-voting mayor today

I am constantly amazed at how often I see this in games.

[guille2015]

I don't think Klingon and Zakk are scum from what we have at the moment.

Aggressive they are, but not scum because of that.

The only way that they'd be scum is if scum didn't receive a new power each day, which I doubt. And Zakk's admittance clears that both are scum together.

[guille2015]

For fuck's sake, don't anyone else claim anything unless it leads to a Scum lynch or prevents a mislynch.

Why would claiming past actions be harmful? There is no indication that the roles rotate. Considering that nobody has claimed double voter, might indicate that the roles don't have to appear each day.

What if I were to die tonight? My result would not have helped anyone.

[guille2015]

Scum lie in Maruchan, Hiplop, and Not Mafia.

This is mostly Poe really. Perhaps I have yet to see enough of them to make an argument against them, but let me see what I can pull up.

Klingoncelt: Her explanation for her outburst is understandable. Wrong, but understandable. My only pick with her is the roleblock assumption. But I see town intent in her posts though. If I'm wrong about the above, I would consider her then.

TheDominator37: Consider this gut. It seems that it is being set up. There are a few things that I have seen from it that are sketchy, but any of those could come from a town player.

Maruchan: Basically has done nothing. In his first two post he states a wrong assumption and goes with it, even after I tried to point it out. Either not reading or taking advantage of an easy target.

zakk: One track mind, I don't see much wrong in his play, but I really would like to know why he thinks that IG and Bella are scum.

Jazzmyn: Most of what he has said, are things that I have been thinking. He is also not focusing on single players.

hiplop: Post 33, wrong assumption. I know he has been VLA but his limited responses have not been satisfying for me.

Not_Mafia: Post 62 rang a really loud bell. Calls his hammer Mod error, and although there was a mod error involved, his hammer was not due to that.

IceGuy: Guy is town, nuff said.

Bellaphant: Same as Jazz. Questions and accepts opposing arguments.

I'll just drop my vote here.

VOTE: Hiplop

[guille2015]

Why is ice guy town
Did you see Dominator is going vla
I'm on vla and I'm still posting
Do you see what I see on Maruchan or is it independent

Why hiplop first

Well, really not that he is town, but rather that I believe (with evidence) that he did not lie.
Yes,
Yes, and?
I don't know, My thoughts on Maru come from what appears to be an easy target. His reasoning is flawed, and hasn't added more to it. I assumed your reasoning is meta, but I can't remember Maru's meta from the last time we've played.

Maru and NM haven't really done much, so there is a possibility that I'm wrong with them. Hiplop pulled at my scumdar real early. And I'm going with it.

[guille2015]

Dom is the number 1 enemy to most here, I think. Most of the reasoning I've seen for that is OK. But I think it is not damning enough, but that's besides the point. He is the ideal target for scum to vote for. And that is regardless of whether Dom is town or scum.

Now, Hiplop, votes Dom on an incorrect assumption. He was corrected twice for it and didn't reconsider whether his argument was right. He also called Bulba's lynch a "Mislynch" which he later said he meant as a "poor candidate for lynch" when I asked him about it, but the that sounds heavily like a slip to me.

[guille2015]

Not_Mafia: Post 62 rang a really loud bell. Calls his hammer Mod error, and although there was a mod error involved, his hammer was not due to that.

Yes it was, 12 players is 7 for a lynch, mod mistakenly posted a flip with my 6th vote. I made an L-1 vote which became a hammer due to.mod error

Your hammer was due to Zakk being a double voter. You voted 5th and called out L-1 hence you were aware of the number of votes and how many votes there needed to a lynch. But that wasn't the problem, the problem was that your dismissing it as a mod error and not acknowledging what really happened.

[guille2015]

This seems to have gotten lost, but I believe everybody should claim their N1 abilities and actions. I don't see a point in keeping them in the dark - scum can't PR hunt anyway and the results could help scumhunting. It's hard to form reads when you've got 6 pages and a LOLQUICKLYNCH D1.

This!

[guille2015]

guille whats your problem with me

I see no one scummier at this point. Do you have someone else in mind and with reason?

[guille2015]

What do you think of IceGuy's post 29?

Nothing wrong with it really. He created enough pressure there to realize he had no interest in lynching Dom. Unless they are both scum, I don't think Scum IG would back away from a lynch like Dom's.

[guille2015]

weird attempt to distance from dom wagon, i think

So if Jazz is distancing from Dom, what are your conclusions for their alignment?

[guille2015]

@Yosarian

: What are your thought's on Hiplop's push on Dom?

[guille2015]

@Yosarian

: What are your thought's on Hiplop's push on Dom?

My vote is still on Dom, from the guy I replaced, and I think I'm going to leave it there for now. His threat to hammer, his demand for a roleclaim, and then him trying to claim it was a "joke" the next day is probably the scummiest thing I've yet seen.

I also want to get an explanation from not_mafia for why he put someone at lynch -1 on day 1, and it seems like a lot of people are lurking today.

Not what I asked for.

[guille2015]

I have my doubts.

For starters, it seems too easy. I know this is not a real argument, but it's been nagging me a bit.
I still have to hear why Dom's actions come from scum. As in what is the intent.

My vote is still on Dom, from the guy I replaced, and I think I'm going to leave it there for now. His threat to hammer, his demand for a roleclaim, and then him trying to claim it was a "joke" the next day is probably the scummiest thing I've yet seen.

This is the best case on Dom. My question for this is, what would Scum Dom gain from this action?

[guille2015]

So, Who was the vig last night?

I'm going to reassess.

[guille2015]

I'm pretty sure Iceguy is town.

Klingon feels town, her lack of information is very unlike the mafia self that I know of her (at least from just 1 data point).

I think Dom was a convenient lynch. Anybody on that had legitimate reasons to be on it. So, it's quite easy for scum to hide on it. I will find it very unlikely that mafia was not on that Lynch. But I feel that only one was there, while the other/s were off of it.

Although a dramatic Irony for Dom that his two scum reads ended up dead and town, that is quite helpful in that we are left with: not_mafia, yos, iceguy.

Bella, Jazz and Klingon are left outside of said wagon. I'm going to have to ISO everyone here during the day, to see if there is any connection.

In the meantime, I'll

VOTE: Not_Mafia

as he had the least to contribute in the Dom Wagon.

[guille2015]

So quick to vote in lylo?

Are we in Lylo?

[guille2015]

Why?

[guille2015]

This is a 12 player game, though.

But I agree that there is a likelyhood of there being 3 mafia here. But My vote wasn't random. I doubt that 3 scum can coordinate easily a lynch from this position, I've tried before, even with daytalk, which we don't know if they posses.

There is also, the situation that If there are in fact 3 scummates, then by my reckoning, I have one in my grasps, giving how I've town read some and using a bit of probability, you are likely one.

So, If you are afraid that scum would quick lynch you, and you are town, then you've got until they can organize to convince me that you are not scum.

[guille2015]

Sure.

UNVOTE: Not_Mafia

[guille2015]

Yeah, no need to rush into voting. We could very well be in lynch or lose, and we have time to discuss things first.

guille, can you explain why you think not_mafia is scum? Just from the dom wagon?

I find it very likely that there is at least one scum in the that wagon. For two reasons: It was a great wagon for scum to be in, and it wasn't as easy to lynch him after the initial burst of votes, so, scum would likely try to push it harder.

In that wagon, I suspect NM and Yos, and Yos had the most to contribute to it, aka had the best argument to be in it.

Although, I am wary of why scum picked to kill from the wagon than from outside. But I'll leave that discussion for later, after we discuss last night's actions.

[guille2015]

Let's get this straight first.

Mod:

Hypothetically speaking: can scum receive a vig power and if they do, can they use it alongside with their factional kill (aka the scum partner uses the factional kill)?

[guille2015]

Not necessarily. There was really only one wagon yesterday, except for a couple of votes on Zakk who was also town, and we were heading for deadline. Scum could have just lurked, knowing that town was almost certanly going to be lynched without them having to do anything.

That is true, and it might explain why they shot into the Dom Wagon pool rather than outside.

[guille2015]

Guille is still my top town-read. Can you clarify this: 'In that wagon, I suspect NM and Yos, and Yos had the most to contribute to it, aka had the best argument to be in it.'

There is only three available suspects and I ruled out IG as a potential scum. That leaves NM and Yos. Out of those two, Yos had placed a legitimate reason for voting:

My vote is still on Dom, from the guy I replaced, and I think I'm going to leave it there for now. His threat to hammer, his demand for a roleclaim, and then him trying to claim it was a "joke" the next day is probably the scummiest thing I've yet seen.

as opposed to:

Yes lynch me for mod error

VOTE: TheDominator

[guille2015]

Let's get this straight first.

Mod:

Hypothetically speaking: can scum receive a vig power and if they do, can they use it alongside with their factional kill (aka the scum partner uses the factional kill)?

Hypocrital yes scum could get that type of power and IT depends on the game

So, it it is unknown for this game whether a scum team can perform two kills.

[guille2015]

Ok, so I guess either iceguy or Klingoncelt has to be scum now, or else scum probably would have quicklynched him by now, right? That vote has been sitting there for 24 hours now, and no quicklynch.

Well, that is the case only if there are three scum partners. And they all need to vote in quick succession.

[guille2015]

Yep, you're Scum alright.

Can you please make a case, and in your case can you distinguish what you found scummy on day 2 and then today?

[guille2015]

We've already established that scum today pretty much have to be within (Klingon, IceGuy) and voting outside of that pair makes absolutely no sense, Klingon.

I'm sorry, but Why is this the case? Did I miss something?

[guille2015]

From Mafia Wiki, Role, Reporter:

Variant 4

A Reporter can be a self-aligned player who wins when all power roles in the game are dead (regardless of their alignment), at which time it leaves the game. To give it a chance of fulfilling such a Win Condition, the Reporter's Night Action is that of a Role Cop, and it can anonymously publish messages at will through the mod.

This incarnation of Reporter is not intended for role madness games, as it does not have a factional kill and thus has no real way of directly killing power roles.

You're 3rd Party?

VOTE: Not_Mafia

This is a very very bad leap to conclusions. NM already countered this, but this role makes no sense for this game, aka anybody with this role would instaloose, and no role will change the alignment of a player as was advertized.

[guille2015]

Undercover reporter

Was that your Role or was that FA_Q's Role?

[guille2015]

@Klingon

: If we assume that IG was a JK, Why would scum JK Dom on Night 1?

[guille2015]

That was my role, FAQ was just a VT when he died

I was confused cause KC asked for FAQ's role, although for some reason he understood it correctly.

I was under the impression that your role was a Coroner.

[guille2015]

We've already established that scum today pretty much have to be within (Klingon, IceGuy) and voting outside of that pair makes absolutely no sense, Klingon.

I'm sorry, but Why is this the case? Did I miss something?

Well, I'm assuming 3 mafia here, so we're in lynch or lose. Because Iceguy was voting for Klingon, the vote stayed there for quite a while, and the scum didn't try and quicklynch. That meas that either Iceguy is scum (meaning there's only 2 other scum who could vote) or Klingon is scum (in which case the scum can't quicklynch him).

That wouldn't be 100% conclusive if the vote only stayed there for a few minutes, but with it staying there for a few days, it's pretty conclusive. Once someone votes for someone else in lynch or lose, and the game doesn't immediately end, one of them has to be scum.

if Klimgon is scum, then it is likely that we have two scum factions.

[guille2015]

He was roleblocked (claimed by maruchan) on a night that there was a kill. If he is scum, he is likely lying about being a Vig and hoplop was a genuine attempt at killing opposing scum. This is just me speculating on what I think is the likely scenario

[guille2015]

I was a VT.

[guille2015]

I'm Ok with Lynching Klingon today. I'll go evaluate everyone tomorrow, as I don't have time now. All I want to point out today, is that I did not like Yos's mention that today's game was between Klingon and IG.

[guille2015]

Bummer. I knew it was hard for a three man team to quick lynch someone, they didn't even try. I figured that since there was no lynch for a while after K had two votes, it had to mean that he was scum.

Towards the end, I was really thinking yos was scum, and mostly because of the K vs IG thing. That really stood out.

The quick lynch day 1 was turned this into a 11p game with 3 mafia.

[guille2015]

I told you guys Not_Mafia is Scum. With his buddy IceGuy.

BTW, I was absolutely certain that IG was town because I asked the mod whether a JK would roleblock me. and I figured that there was no why in hell that scum will JK a vig target as Dom was on Night 1. I didn't want to outright say this so that it wouldn't be too clear that I or IG where town and thus we could make an effective town Block. Do you guys thinkthat it would have been best if I came out straight on this day 2, or was I already pretty obvious on that? I know IG figured it out.

Well played scum.

[guille2015]

But you knew it was LyLo. If you were town you'd likely underestimate scum like we all did.

[guille2015]

Today I learned to be less paranoid and to work more with others.

I think you focused too much on the people that attacked you.

[guille2015]

Farside:

Why did you not name NM's power a coroner?