Mini 1745: Mutant Mafia [GAME OVER]

[3dicerolling]

glad to see suzune is town.

next

VOTE: varsoon

[3dicerolling]

town: suzune, lane

let's not all rush to claim. mass claim d1 is bad

[3dicerolling]

I have my reasons for believing suzune. As for lane, his claim can be easily verified, therefore wouldn't be claimed as scum.

[3dicerolling]

I have my reasons for believing suzune. As for lane, his claim can be easily verified, therefore wouldn't be claimed as scum.

Your going to have to explain why about suz!

Are you implying you don't believe suzune's claim?

[3dicerolling]

It's strictly meta and gut.

[3dicerolling]

From what I've experienced and seen from reading games with Suzune in it, she seems like a relatively conservative player in them. I don't see her claiming Miller as scum.

[3dicerolling]

I don't mind if you suspect me it would be only fair. Farside is the one who ruined my miller claim by informing the town that it was not my only ability.

p-edit, I am actually surprised farside did that honestly. If she was town she should not have contradicted me.

p-edit...it is in post 21

but how did farside know that wasn't your only ability?

[3dicerolling]

I'm interested, but it feels like I'm tumbling down a rabbit hole.
If Farside is informed of Suzune's role and Suzune knew this, then why would Farside ask for more info/claim from Suzune?
It's weird and pings all kinds of strange to me.
I can think of a handful of possibilities, but all of them sound like the kind of shit I'd awkwardly scum-gambit with to either crash or win a game.

This pretty much sums up how I feel right now.

[3dicerolling]

I'd say it would probably be best to leave it as it is. We have enough roles outed as is.

[3dicerolling]

From what I've experienced and seen from reading games with Suzune in it, she seems like a relatively conservative player in them. I don't see her claiming Miller as scum.

[3dicerolling]

Ocean - why do you feel like varsoon is scum for sheeping farside?

[3dicerolling]

Ocean - why do you feel like varsoon is scum for sheeping farside?

Because scum are far more likely to want to bandwagon off of a townie's reasoning and it takes a certain level of skill to convincingly fake their own.

You disagree that Varsoon's sheeping is scummy?

How do you know farside is a townie?

And I am getting mixed feelings about varsoon, but I hope he clears them up!

[3dicerolling]

This is going to be one of those games where I have to read never ending text walls of fluff, huh?

[3dicerolling]

Ocean - why do you feel like varsoon is scum for sheeping farside?

Ocean - why do you feel like varsoon is scum for sheeping farside?

Because scum are far more likely to want to bandwagon off of a townie's reasoning and it takes a certain level of skill to convincingly fake their own.

You disagree that Varsoon's sheeping is scummy?

Ocean - why do you feel like varsoon is scum for sheeping farside?

Because scum are far more likely to want to bandwagon off of a townie's reasoning and it takes a certain level of skill to convincingly fake their own.

You disagree that Varsoon's sheeping is scummy?

How do you know farside is a townie?

And I am getting mixed feelings about varsoon, but I hope he clears them up!

How do you know farside is a townie?

And I am getting mixed feelings about varsoon, but I hope he clears them up!

I don't "know" Farside is a townie. I'm townreading Farside because the way she questioned Suzune about not claiming her full role and then questioning for buying it and finally outing what she knows looked pretty clearly town.

The four quotes above are my interactions with Oceanwind. I asked him about sheeping because I don't think sheeping is inherently scummy. He inferred that I disagreed, which I did because I thought it as more of a neutral tell. I proceed to ask him how he knows farside is townie and he falls back on the claim that farside is "pretty clearly town" which I disagree with. And then this post

3dice is probably also scum. His first few posts read town to me mostly because I agreed with him that both claims looked town. But his response to my case on Varsoon looks a lot scummier:

1. He is not all bothered by Varsoon sheeping Farside's read to vote him. Town in his place would be a lot more paranoid about a wagon starting on them and tend to look especially closely at who's joining it for poor or non-reasons: in Varsoon's case, it was simple rehash of what Farside already said.
2. The direction of his questioning: him asking me to justify why Varsoon's sheeping is scummy and being oblivious to it and then asking me how I "know" Farside is town is a bizarre line of questioning to ask. Nowhere does he really care that Varsoon voted him.

He immediately turns back on his town read because of 2 points. The first one is because I disagreed with me that sheeping is a scum tell, which is interesting because a disagreement in reads isn't scummy.
The second point addresses my line of questioning. I'm curious why he thought sheeping was scummy because I didn't agree. At no point was I oblivious about it. The line of questioning is directly correlated to ocean's answers. And no I didn't care about varsoon's vote on me because votes earlier in the game are either baseless or to draw out reactions.

So to summarize these events, Oceanwind town reads me, then scumreads varsoon for "sheeping" early in the game. I questioned his line of logic because I disagreed with him, and he immediately turned it into a scumread on me, which is super scummy and opportunistic.

VOTE: OceanWind

Also funny to note that Ocean voted for me, who is the same person his townread, farside, is voting. IMO this is more sheeping than what Varsoon did, which is hypocritical.

I'll finish reading up on the game after this post.

[3dicerolling]

@Ocean

Are the following accurate descriptions of your impressions of the game?

1. Varsoon is likely Mafia because he followed Farside's vote on 3DR.

2. 3DR is likely Mafia because he didn't question Varsoon's vote on him.

EDIT: Maybe it would help if I first get a clearer picture of what your case on Varsoon is. I guess that you could say that "fine" is a null read. Maxous and 3DR have not especially struck me as Town or as Mafia thus far.

EDIT AGAIN: I acknowledge Suzune's point that Ascetic can be Town; my point was that an Ascetic Mafia could make Lane's claim to draw (and negate) Town power without too much risk.

This is actually a pretty town post.

[3dicerolling]

I feel like someone even semi-competent at the game should realize I'm town by now (with the obvious exception of Varsoon since he was locked in a tunnel). I don't know if Brantz is actually this bad at the game or just scum.

"I'm town and you all are bad if you don't know it!"

Give me a break.

[3dicerolling]

@Varsoon - How do you feel about brantz right now?

[3dicerolling]

Right now I'm at:

Town:
Suzune
Lane

Lean Town:
Varsoon

Townish:
farside
Dier

Lean scum:
OceanWind

Everyone else is null at this point.

@Xtoxm - Why do you feel like the ocean wagon is bad?

@Fuzzylogic - What are your opinions of people so far other than varsoon and ocean?

@Wanderer - Can you express more of your thoughts to the game?

[3dicerolling]

Wanderer's thoughts seem logical and cohesive. She can go in leans town.

[3dicerolling]

I'm am somewhat confused on the farside scumread though.

@Wanderer - Where does farside try to get prs to out themselves?

[3dicerolling]

I honestly don't see the point of 2 people checking lane. It would be stupid for lane to claim something like that as scum, thus he wouldn't claim it. Why waste 2 prs on someone who is most likely town in the first place?

[3dicerolling]

What I am curious about is do you think Lane would have claimed right away regardless of my miller claim?

Is this directed at me or wanderer?

[3dicerolling]

I didn't care about varsoon's vote on me because votes earlier in the game are either baseless or to draw out reactions.

Varsoon's vote on you was for acting "being too chummy and accepting." Farside's vote on you was for "accepting claims too quickly." I don't buy that you thought Varsoon's vote was not at all influenced by Farside's or was non-serious.

It never at all crossed your mind to ask "Varsoon, why are you voting me?"

Maybe I thought Varsoon's vote was non-serious so I didn't address it? Has that crossed your mind at all?

[3dicerolling]

What I am curious about is do you think Lane would have claimed right away regardless of my miller claim?

I'm not sure he would have. I believe he saw your claim and either realized claiming his role would be a good idea too, or thought we were mass claiming.

@3dicerolling -

1. How did Varsoon go from you having mixed feelings on him to leaning town?

2. Point out something in wanderer's posts that isn't related to me where you thought her posts were "logical and cohesive." Explain in detail why you think this makes her town. (I don't care about wanderer's suspicion of me as I'd expect you to "townread" it regardless of your alignment.)

1. I read through the thread again, and a lot of his opinions and logic line up to mine. He's not as strong of a townread, but he does ping townish.

2. The type of questions she asks are thought provoking, and I think if she was scum that questioning farside would be a bit dangerous, so I feel like she's town.

I honestly don't see the point of 2 people checking lane. It would be stupid for lane to claim something like that as scum, thus he wouldn't claim it. Why waste 2 prs on someone who is most likely town in the first place?

Wifom I don't think helps to discuss but again didn't say it had to happen.
I can explain my crazy thoughts after the game if your curious.
I doubt you are though.

I just don't think lane as scum would be ballsy enough to claim something like this. I would be happy to hear your theory post game if you would like.

I think oceans ppint about another vote at that point with 13 players and saying town would be more paranoid is totally wrong and like what 3dice caught about ocean seeming like he knew far was a townie by calling her townie.

No it isn't. 3dice's point about me "knowing" Farside was town is the stupidest thing I ever heard. I'm reading Farside as town. Having townreads is not the same as knowing someone is town.

If you don't understand why 3dice is scummy, I'll go over it again:

1. Farside voted 3dice

Vote: 3dice

Why do you believe the claims so quickly?

2. Varsoon voted 3dice

VOTE: 3diceDude's too chummy and accepting (and too willing to vote for me, hm, yes, mmm).

Thinking this an RVS vote is a huge stretch considering 3dice's posts so far have been about accepting the claims and Farside had already called him out on it. If I squint, maybe I can see the part in parenthesis as a slight joke but overall not RVS.

3. I point out in Post 93 that Varsoon was sheeping Farside and also argue that it was a non-serious post.

4. 3dice's response:

Ocean - why do you feel like varsoon is scum for sheeping farside?

He says nothing at all about the vote not being serious. He buys my premise that the vote was serious and instead argues with me on a theory point. If he thought the vote was serious, he would at this point be questioning Varsoon about Varsoon voting him.

It is a natural human tendency to notice votes on yourself. Town or scum, when someone votes you, it sticks out and people tend to take notice much more than they would votes on somebody else. When Varsoon voted 3dice with rephrased reasoning from Farside, 3dice no doubt noticed it. When I called out Varsoon for sheeping, I think 3dice here would also want to know why Varsoon voted him regardless of 3dice's alignment. But instead of asking Varsoon that question he asks me to justify why sheeping is scummy. This is

scummy

because a player in that position would be curious about Varsoon's vote. 3dice is suppressing his curiosity, ignoring Varsoon and instead questioning me

for

questioning Varsoon.

To extrapolate on this: assume that you are town in a game and a quick wagon develops on you with minimal reasoning and the playernames of the people that wagoned you are A, B, and C. Let's also assume at this point that another player Z calls out B and says that B hopped on the wagon with poor reasoning. Would your reaction at this point be to hear what B has to say or do you ask O to justify why B's hop on to your wagon was scummy? The first is natural because we're always curious about why people voted us. The second is contrived with him trying to put up some sort of faux-objective front and is not a natural town thought process at all.

His question is also rather silly. It is fairly obvious why sheeping is scummy - or rather it is obvious why a town player would consider sheeping to be scummy regardless of the alignment of the sheeper. This is a mafia theory question and is fairly pointless. There are so many other very relevant things that needed looking into. If 3dice was town here, he'd be asking Varsoon why Varsoon disbelieved the claims (since 3dice himself bought them). He would also be clarifying with Varsoon whether the vote was indeed serious. Instead he asks me a theory-related question.

I think the actual reason he was asking me that contrived question to justify my suspicion was that he believed that Varsoon was going to be townread (based on Suzune's and Farside's responses) and wanted to get in and buddy up to Varsoon.

1. Let's break down Varsoon's vote on me:

VOTE: 3dice
Dude's too chummy and accepting (

and too willing to vote for me, hm, yes, mmm

).

Pay attention to the bold part. "too willing to vote for me" is obviously a joke about me voting him in the first place. You have to be blind to not see this. It is also important to note that this post was on the second page of the game. This early in the game, there are some serious votes, but for a player's

first

post this early in the game it is most likely a pressure vote or a non-serious vote, which is the case with Varsoon's vote.

2. No, actually I was more curious with your intention behind the scum read. I do not believe sheeping is inherently scummy, so I asked you based on your opinion of the "sheeping" on what you believed was motive of the post, so I could better understand your intentions.

3. I don't care what you think "natural human tendency" is. When I saw the vote, I recognized that it was not a very serious vote, and so I continued on pursuing other thoughts. Understanding that the vote was not serious, led to me not caring about responding it. Everything you said here is just random jargon for your mis-representation of me.

4. Most players that get random voted or voted non-seriously

don't

respond to it. Heck, in just about every game I play where I get voted non-seriously I don't care to respond to it. Whether town or scum.

5. I already answered this above, but I'll reiterate it. I did not think the vote was serious. You apparently did and said that sheeping was scummy. I disagreed and wanted to know your intentions behind this because what makes sheeping scummy is

the way it is done

, not the fact that it is done at all.

6. I think this is a 100% misrep and that you don't understand that sheeping isn't inherently scummy.

And no, me pointing out the question about farside isn't really a point. It was just used as a reaction test, and you bit.

[3dicerolling]

Prod dodge. Will try to get back to this today, but all these walls are really off-putting.

[3dicerolling]

@Skull - I will be semi-V/LA until Saturday. Finals and stuff have me busy.

[3dicerolling]

Hi piss. I understand reading is not fun, but I think there is a lot to learn from reading the back and forth so far.

[3dicerolling]

I'd rate Varsoon a solid 8.6 out of 10

[3dicerolling]

Found some spare time (and got bored of studying!)

1. I read through the thread again, and a lot of his opinions and logic line up to mine. He's not as strong of a townread, but he does ping townish.

2. The type of questions she asks are thought provoking, and I think if she was scum that questioning farside would be a bit dangerous, so I feel like she's town.

1. What "opinions" and "logic" of Varsoon's pinged town for you? It reads as you simply trying to gain an ally because he suspects me. Let's do this: what opinions not related to me does Varsoon have that pinged town to you? Why?

2. Be more specific because this reads like a bs explanation. What questions did Wanderer-nl ask that provoked your thoughts? What thoughts did they provoke? Why would questioning Farside be dangerous?

1. Let's break down Varsoon's vote on me:

VOTE: 3dice

Dude's too chummy and accepting

(

and too willing to vote for me, hm, yes, mmm

).

Pay attention to the bold part. "too willing to vote for me" is obviously a joke about me voting him in the first place.

Your sole response to my case is that you thought Varsoon's vote was obviously a joke. If you pay attention to the underlined part, it doesn't compute. There was a jokey bit added at the end but at best, it is ambiguous - which is a reason to ask him about it.

1. Post 60 was a big one that I agreed with. Also, I felt like his entrance and attempt to apply pressure on me was town motivated. Lot's of little gut pings that add up to a town read.

2. No, I meant she was poking at others with questions, like fuzzy. I re-read what she said about fuzzy, and I actually agreed. Fuzzy basically summarized the varsoon vs you and didn't take much of a stance. To look at wanderer questioning farside, it's important to note the circumstance. If wanderer is scum, and farside is town, then she is actively challenging a player with a pr (well if you consider a neighbor a pr), which is pretty ballsy of an entrance. That being said, there is some stuff I can't really go into right now about me town reading the slot, but I will definitely explain more in the future.

3. Since when is "chummy" a serious word in mafia? I believe if Varsoon seriously and wholeheartedly agreed with farside, then he would have said something such as, "3dice seems to be accepting claims very quickly, so I am going to vote him with farside", but no, he goes out of his way to make his vote seem silly. Why you might ask? Because it was a non-serious vote to begin with.

@Ocean

Farside, Suzune, and Lane have claim-related reasons for me to read them as Town. Until something happens to question their claims, they get a pass. I will expect Farside and Suzune to continue to sort each other out, and as I mentioned before I would like someone to check Lane's claim at some point because it's easily verified. A protective role should probably be the one to do it.
Ocean and Varsoon had an argument that appeared Town on both sides. I'm reading them both as Town.
Maxous, Fuzzy, and 3DR are Null right now. 3DR has had more posts without saying much (other than his thoughts on the claimed roles). My vote probably should have gone on him rather than on Maxous.

Updates to this:

Maxous is still Null. I need to see the reasons for his reads in 215.
Fuzzy is still Null, I guess, until I can figure out what he's saying. I don't clearly understand what he's saying about the claims (seems to say that Lane's claim is more suspicious than Suzune's?). I don't at all understand what he's saying about your initial interaction with Varsoon (fake from both sides?) or how that squares with his interpretation of the game in general. He said that he would gather his thoughts on it but never came back. I would read him as Mafia if I felt confident that my interpretation of his words were correct.
3DR seems false to me. I'm reading him as Mafia. His main reason for reading you as Mafia seems to be that you were reading him as Mafia for disagreements on theory (whether Varsoon's vote was suspicious, whether he should have asked Varsoon about it). I don't like that he's able to say "theory disagreements are not a good reason for a vote" but then seems to believe that players casting votes for theory disagreements are Mafia; to me, that seems like a problem frequently encountered by Town players and the ability to argue against it implies knowing so. Maybe this is a bit too recursive. I'll rephrase. I think that 3DR has parked his vote on you and is more concerned with defending himself from your vote than with arguing that your vote is coming from Mafia. His attitude is less that your vote is bad because you are Mafia (that is, that your actions reflect nefarious intent), and more that you are Mafia because your vote is bad (that is, that your reasoning is insufficient to prove that he is Mafia and therefore you must be Mafia).
Your points on Wanderer in 210 and 212 are good, which makes me sad because I want Wanderer to be Town.
My read on Brantz is mixed as I said, but having caught up with 3DR I feel better about him (I would find it relatively unlikely for Mafia to vote together on a wagon of this size, so I'm betting on a single Mafia player, which would most likely be 3DR).
Xtoxm has not given me much detail. I'll leave that as a Null read for now.
Oh, and Buckwild is in this game, apparently?

Conclusions: I'm moving my vote to 3DR.

UNVOTE: Brantz
VOTE: 3DR

I don't know why people like to mis-rep me in mafia, but you do a great job of it! I did not vote on Ocean based on a disagreement in theory. I voted on Ocean based off an opportunistic feel I received from his vote. If you payed attention to the timing of his vote, it was just as I was beginning to question him. I felt it was sketchy, so I voted for him. And I laughed at "parked". Look up your mafia terms next time you use them. That being said, there is much more to mafia then voting someone specifically with the mindset of assuming they are scum. That produces a bias outlook on them and can result in a mis-read. I'm approaching Ocean based of the opportunism I felt and am trying to get a read on him from our back and forths. Saying that I'm defending myself is correct because I'm not just going to be lynched over a mis-represenation of my post.

I have been thinking this over, and I have changed my mind on Oceanwind. Mainly because of this post here

3DR seems false to me. I'm reading him as Mafia.

1.)

His main reason for reading you as Mafia seems to be that you were reading him as Mafia for disagreements on theory (whether Varsoon's vote was suspicious, whether he should have asked Varsoon about it).

2.)

I don't like that he's able to say "theory disagreements are not a good reason for a vote" but then seems to believe that players casting votes for theory disagreements are Mafia; to me, that seems like a problem frequently encountered by Town players and the ability to argue against it implies knowing so. Maybe this is a bit too recursive. I'll rephrase. I think that 3DR has parked his vote on you and is more concerned with defending himself from your vote than with arguing that your vote is coming from Mafia.

3.)

His attitude is less that your vote is bad because you are Mafia (that is, that your actions reflect nefarious intent), and more that you are Mafia because your vote is bad (that is, that your reasoning is insufficient to prove that he is Mafia and therefore you must be Mafia).

I'm having a bit of trouble following this read. Can you clarify a few things for me:

1. I believe 3dice's main reason to read me as mafia was because I had a townread on him which changed to a scumread based off of him questioning me. The rest of our wall back-and-forth has been me arguing that his questioning of me doesn't make sense from town and that he would be more inquisitive about Varsoon's vote and motivations and Varsoon's suspicions of the two claims if he (3dice) were town. 3dice argued that he thought Varsoon's vote was non-serious and that this justifies him not questioning Varsoon.

2. Can you point out where he said that theory disagreements are not a good reason for a vote? And where he then believed that players casting votes for theory disagreements are mafia?

3. Can you quote examples of where he did this and why you interpreted it in the way you did?

As I stated earlier, I felt Oceanwind's initial jump on me was opportunistic; however, this post contradicts my initial stance. I don't really see a scum oceanwind sticking his neck out to argue against logic that was being used against me.

If anybody knows me, you know I can be very adamant about my reads as town, but I remember someone once gave me the hint as town (I believe it was mastin) to not keep my vote on someone where my read has begin to alter on. Even if you are both knees deep in wagons (I know you aren't anymore, but this happened in another game, a long time ago)

UNVOTE: Oceanwind

I'm going to try to sort through some of my null reads. If anyone wants to help engage me, that would probably help improve my confidence.

[3dicerolling]

Actually... Tom can wait.

VOTE: farside22

There is no way she is town this game.

Well this is a bit of a stretch.

[3dicerolling]

Suzune - Your posting style and attacking style in Mana Khemia were very conservative. I just didn't see you as a player to come out of the gates with a miller claim if you were lying. Of course, I'm not 100% certain, but I'm pretty confident in my town read on you.

[3dicerolling]

At this point, I doubt dierfire is scum with ocean.

[3dicerolling]

What Im seeing in ocean's isos are shotgun attacks.

What I smell from you is flatulence.

[3dicerolling]

What I smell from you is flatulence.

Do you have something constructive to add?

I said pisskop smells bad. How much more constructive should I be?

[3dicerolling]

What I smell from you is flatulence.

Do you have something constructive to add?

I said pisskop smells bad. How much more constructive should I be?

Thats not fair. Didnt I win us the game in blitz?

By pissing of the scum team? Technically yes, but I convinced Ika

I'm hoping to see you transfer your really good moments from that game to here. Time will tell I suppose, but currently you and flatulence are dancing.

[3dicerolling]

And as soon as we play in enough games to be capable of assessing one another with an acceptable degree of error Ill let you talk about my game.

I generally mix what I've already picked up on people's play with how they are playing in the current game and work onward.

[3dicerolling]

It's not just you suzune. I got questioned for my town read on wanderer.

And about theory, it's honestly a different story for each player.

Player A might say that action X is scummy, while Player B might think action X indicates a town player. Then Player C might completely disregard action X in place for a scummier action Y.

It all really varies from player to player, but there are some common grounds to things most players agree are scummy. It's just a very minute amount of common grounds.

[3dicerolling]

Glad your thinking about me

[3dicerolling]

It's not just you suzune. I got questioned for my town read on wanderer.

The reason wanderer was townread by at least some players is that she was echoing a lot of the popular sentiment at the time and parroting the popular reads. Your and Varsoon's scumread on me happened before wanderer posted anything. Wanderer was taking advantage of town sentiment at that time and assuming at least one of you are town, simply telling you what she thought your internal thought processes were.

I think you should rethink your townread of her just because she said things you agreed with or were thinking yourself because these weren't original thoughts she added to the game but rather a rehash with similar types of reasoning you had already posted in the thread.

No read this early is set in cement for me. I felt like wanderer wouldn't be too difficult to read, but I'm having a more difficult time reading pisskop.

And her thoughts weren't all completely rehashes. The fact that she voted farside proves that she wasn't completely committed to bandwagoning you. Her questioning was new as well.

P:Edit - Even thought pisskop is currently flatulence, I'm not ready to wagon him. I'm still working on developing a read on him.

[3dicerolling]

Actually, I'm going to go with this right now.

VOTE: laladucks

[3dicerolling]

The fact that she voted farside proves that she wasn't completely committed to bandwagoning you. Her questioning was new as well.

The fact that she voted Farside is actually incriminating on her part because based on her thoughts so far, she should have voted me. I think she voted Farside not because she wasn't committed to bandwagoning me (which isn't a scumtell anyways) but because she didn't want to look opportunistic by joining at that time, the largest wagon. Instead she wanted to leave me up as a "compromise wagon" on her "second scumread" later on in the day so she doesn't take heat for it.

You don't think wagoning Pisskop is an effective way to get a better read on him?

I can see the angle you are attacking here. I'm just not completely sold that was the motivation behind her post.

Wagoning can be a pretty effective way to get a read, but it's less effective when he knows I'm just voting him to drive his wagon up. It's basically like when you vote someone and are like "derp, pressure vote"

@Dierfire - I outlined why I thought it was opportunistic in post 185, but if you need further explanation, I would be happy to elaborate.

[3dicerolling]

@Dierfire - How do you feel about pisskop?

[3dicerolling]

rather than atually check you shove your foot down your throat on

an attempt to look thought out

wanderer left the site, shame on you

That's fine, I guess.

She was already dodging questions

before the replacement.

[3dicerolling]

And then she replaced out (probably due to a mixture of stress and boredom). It wasn't really dodging, just more of not being able to answer them. You could redirect the questions to pisskop, but he may not share the exact same viewpoint as his predecessor.

[3dicerolling]

Star Wars is hype. I'm seeing it tonight.

[3dicerolling]

I liked it. The haters can go jump off a Death Star.

[3dicerolling]

All youre doing is distracting me.

No I'm in a bad mood.

I'm ready to be done with mafia (sadly and happily at the same time).
Seeing the same crap thrown in and people just ignore the obvious scum and I feel like screaming at the computer or pounding on the table.

Then I see some bad fucking reasoning why players scum read someone and I'm looking at my computer and wonder how many brain cells I lost reading it.

Tell you what.
Vote confirmed scum brantz, lets see him flip scum and then scum team will kill me and I can be done with this game.

mmk?

farside.

[3dicerolling]

Can you link me to a scum game that you find similar farside?

Also, what was your read on wanderer, and what is your read on that slot now?

[3dicerolling]

Why pisskop

[3dicerolling]

Oh wait I see it now.

[3dicerolling]

I'm not replacing out, but I'll be on pretty long V/LA for holidays. Going to be pretty busy.

[3dicerolling]

Honestly man, I'm not really too confident on my scum reads this game. I think a pisskop lynch would reveal a lot through interactions, but I still think wanderer is town, and I can explain why now.

I just finished playing a mini normal game (http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=63842 here if you want to take a look) with Wanderer where we were both scum. I feel like I got to know wanderer scum very well, and quite frankly, her opening post looked nothing like she did in the mini normal game.

I'd like to see the replacements light on this game. (particularly the lane slot because I'm town reading him pretty hard)

@Skull - Will we get a deadline extension for the replacements or nah?

[3dicerolling]

In Monkeyman game, wanderer was a more lurky, less apt to take a stance early, more general with her questioning, and just generally less helpful.

[3dicerolling]

I mean, I wish I could've seen more from her this game, but from the little posts she did make, it didn't seem anything like her scum game.

[3dicerolling]

She wasn't lurky, she was busy this game. Her questioning was more general the previous game. The only way you could know whether she was less helpful was if you read the game.

I disagree with your interpretation of her vote, but it's clear neither of us are going to budge on our stance.

[3dicerolling]

I think her stance on farside was not a very common one. She plays pretty safe with her vote as scum, and I don't see her going out and voting against the flow as scum.

[3dicerolling]

@3dice - Why do you think she voted Farside over me?

Probably because her gut felt like farside was scummier than you? I can't really read her mind.

[3dicerolling]

Dier or ocean is where the rope's going today if I can help it.

You might want to push dier then because my votes not going on ocean today.

[3dicerolling]

Meh, that's not really something I could get behind, even if I think your slot is town.

[3dicerolling]

@Skull - I'm not V/LA until the 25th. I'm V/LA 26th-27 and 29th-3rd. Thank you.

[3dicerolling]

3dice you never said why you're voting me dood

pisskop it would really be appreciated if you'd just summarise your reads because i'm finding you pretty difficult to follow (not really different to usual but eh figured i'd ask anyway)

Nope, I didn't. Quite ambitious aren't I?

Im not sure what you want from me. I play the way I do because it works out for me. Her posts are safe. Its p-obvious she isnt actually contribuiting.

I'll look through her ISO again when I can get a chance.

[3dicerolling]

And what about brantz?

I'll look at him too. Farside sounded pretty sure about him being scum.

[3dicerolling]

I mean I hadnt gotten to him and I didnt know what to look at.

Farside said meta reasoning, I don't know brantz's meta, but I think if he's playing scummy, I should be able to find that in his play.

[3dicerolling]

I wouldn't be against a brantz lynch.

[3dicerolling]

VOTE: TheFuzzylogic99

[3dicerolling]

Edit 3 dice can you explain your vote on me.....

Voting you because of 569

[3dicerolling]

Welcome Ether and Koggz! Hopefully you can bring new life to this game.

You should sheep me, ocean.

[3dicerolling]

Post 320 ocean

[3dicerolling]

Could you not respond post by post? Could you possibly take notes and then post them all at once when you are done?

[3dicerolling]

@Ocean - I didn't initially mind xtomx's jump on my wagon. I was awaiting for him to elaborate or provide some insight to his reads list, but he's barely been scraping by this game. I see his wagon jump as less of a problem and more of his play in general as a problem.

As for fuzzy's logic on Varsoon, I suppose if you haven't played on this site for awhile, then it wouldn't be very common of you to see people randomly sheeping other people, but I have seen it many times before. I don't find anything about varsoon's jump too convicting, but I can see how others might.

In 569 fuzzy goes through this whole notion about brantz not committing to his read on farside. The whole thing was a complete farse because brantz was voting farside. Fuzzy's play also hasn't been very impressive, so that's why I am voting them.

[3dicerolling]

Could you do me a favor maxous? And be more useful?

[3dicerolling]

Maxous you can go slightly above null now. Like these latest posts.

[3dicerolling]

Why would you like me to do that?

[3dicerolling]

sorry this should be

won't be voting for suzune/ether/suzune/koggz

suzune/ether/ocean/koggz/3dice

mm

actually i'll add 3dice in there i guess

[3dicerolling]

Lala is scumposting.

I don't think so. She did like my duck picture after all.

[3dicerolling]

Ether was farside slot, so I would've preferred someone else, but I think if this bomb is real, Ether's flip will be pretty telling.

[3dicerolling]

Boop

[3dicerolling]

@Mod - V/LA til monday.

[3dicerolling]

It's good play for a Bodyguard. Lane claimed a reflexive Friendly Neighbor ability, which both makes that slot a good target for the kill and gives that move an investigative function.

This actually makes a lot of sense.

[3dicerolling]

It makes sense for Maxous to target them though. Think about it.

If you are a bodyguard, and you protect koggz, you will either,

A) Not save them from a kill and learn they are town.
B) Save them and confirm them as town.

[3dicerolling]

Right because every player in this game is a reflexive friendly neighbor.

Get out Pisskop.

[3dicerolling]

3Dice - I fully agree with your point re: Maxous. Stop wasting time arguing with mafia and vote Pisskop with me.

Okay.

VOTE: Pisskop

I'll probably have time to spend after V/LA, but right after that time, I'll be busy again

[3dicerolling]

Oh shit, just got a clarification from mod. I have a guilty on 3dice.

3dice, please fullclaim immediately. Then die anyway.

I'm vanilla town. I don't know what kind of screwy gambit you are trying to play, but I SWEAR, if I get lynched because of it, I will scream at you post game.

[3dicerolling]

But, you know I'm cool with this trade if you are scum xtomx. I die today, I flip town, you burn tomorrow.

[3dicerolling]

I'm actually town though :/

[3dicerolling]

PLEASE LISTEN TO THIS POST:

DO NOT LYNCH ME BEFORE I HAVE TIME TO MAKE MY FINAL POST. I WILL POST READS AND ECT AND HAVE TIME TO PROCESS ALL THESE CLAIMS.

THAT IS ALL

[3dicerolling]

3dice -> Pisskop -> Fuzzy should result in a town win.

It is possible Xtoxm was roleblocked but the likelihood of 3dice being mafia is pretty high if I'm right on most of my townreads.

@Xtoxm -

when you show up again to fully claim, also explain why you think I'm wrong on Lalaladucks/why you are scumreading her. I think you missed my initial question.

Stop lining up lynches.

[3dicerolling]

Hurr durr everybdy!

We have 3 weak claimed fucking investigatives! Lets Lynch like tards!

Truthfully, xtomx is pretty close to a full investigative. He doesn't get a result for a third party or mafia.

[3dicerolling]

Mass makes the most sense.

Hey piss, if I post a huge reads list today, will you use it at all or nah?

[3dicerolling]

But I'm still limited access for now. My gut is currently leaning varsoonian.

[3dicerolling]

I feel like he also is fading back this game. I'm pretty sure he's busy due to winter, but honestly he's been a non-presence in this game before he was busy

[3dicerolling]

Hm, so we need to be relatively careful here.

We have 9 alive, so two scum left. I'm not sure if we have a third party or not, but given the fact we have lovers, I'm going to throw out third party.

We have a vote disabler. I do not in any way believe this could be town. It removes the vote of fellow townies, which removes vt's main weapon. That makes LYLO non-existent with the vote remover alive.

So we mis-lynch me today, xtomx, piss, or ocean dies. That leaves 7 alive; however only 6 can vote.

If we mis-lynch again, that leaves a LYLO situation where only 2 town can vote. With this, the game is over.

@Ocean - So the gunsmith works for both scum night kill and town killing roles?

Going to have to point out that I believe

suspicion against pisskop's claim is atrocious. His reaction to the bodyguard choice makes sense considering he is a PR and would prefer the protection.

However

, I think we need mass claim before we can root out who's claim is fake.

[3dicerolling]

I'm vanilla town. I don't know what kind of screwy gambit you are trying to play, but I SWEAR, if I get lynched because of it, I will scream at you post game.

your indignation feels a bit forced bud!!

Your face feels forced!!

[3dicerolling]

wait massclaim d2?

uh are we actually lol?

eh i don't oppose it i suppose

gonna give xtoxy a pass for now with this guilty claim and intend to vote 3dicey after his ketchup post becuz yayyyyyyyyyyy

Reaction to mass claim seems odd.

[3dicerolling]

Town

xtomx - His claim seems legit. Most likely roleblocked N1, which is why he has no results for me. Still doesn't really change the fact that I don't see scum fakeclaiming a guilty.
Pisskop - I had my doubts, but the insults seem to align with what I see as normal for pisskop. The claim seems genuine, especially the reaction to the bodyguard targeting koggz.
Koggz - Most likely the target of maxous. Pretty sure he is town and he has scum unfriendly neighbor to match his claim.
Dierfire - Pretty sure mafia show up as having guns, and dierfire did not, so dierfire is cleared.

Leaning town

OceanWind - The gunsmith claim made me think he was town, but the change in his tone this game day has been really offsetting to me. Still, it's hard to believe he is scum to me.

This leaves three players for the last

two scum

slots.
lalaladucks - Earlier posts left me suspicious because it seemed like they were attempting to be transparent, but most of it just felt like summarizing events that happened. Midgame stuff is okay, but not too keen on this slot.
TheFuzzylogic99 - Possible chainsaw on farside. I was going to write a bunch of scummy things I saw from this slot, and then I realized they had their vote shocked, and since I think the vote shocker is scum, then that would make this slot more likely town. hm.
Varsoon - Pretty much PoE. They were a presence early, but really faded toward the middle. Nothing really town has stuck out from this slot except some early gut reads, so I would probably lynch varsoonian first.

VOTE: Varsoon

If anyone wants to discuss any of my reads with me go ahead. Most importantly,

use this time wisely.

Since I will flip town, you can get all my opinions from a town perspective, which is extremely useful.

[3dicerolling]

Pisskop - I had my doubts, but the insults seem to align with what I see as normal for pisskop. The claim seems genuine, especially the reaction to the bodyguard targeting koggz.

What seemed genuine? Do you think Pisskop would expect Maxous to protect Pisskop, his biggest scumread who Maxous wanted lynched today?

The insults seem to just be part of Pisskop's troll personality - not a reason he's town.

Assuming that all of my Pisskop's, and Xtoxm's roles are town is naive.

Pisskop still has zero response to why he sheeped his four scumreads onto BRantz D1.

Well, if you were a town pr, (which you are) wouldn't you preferred to be protected over someone who was almost universally townread and useless at night? (lane/koggz slot) Makes sense to me that town PR pisskop would react that way.

Yup, that's what I meant by normal.

It could be a bit of a premature assumption, but I don't really know what the scum roles could be that could counter them.

I would like to see a response to this as well.

[3dicerolling]

Well, if you were a town pr, (which you are) wouldn't you preferred to be protected over someone who was almost universally townread and useless at night? (lane/koggz slot) Makes sense to me that town PR pisskop would react that way.

Preferred, sure. But Pisskop would know that there is zero chance of Maxous actually protecting him considering Maxous wanted him dead at the end of D1.

Pisskop also isn't the only PR. It would make sense if he wanted other PRs to be protected as well.

[3dicerolling]

SHUT UP AND STOP ENGAGING 3D! WE MASSCLAIM NOW

I'm trying to actually defend you before I die. Us talking stuff out isn't going to stop massclaim at all. We need other players to be here to massclaim.

[3dicerolling]

Well, if you were a town pr, (which you are) wouldn't you preferred to be protected over someone who was almost universally townread and useless at night? (lane/koggz slot) Makes sense to me that town PR pisskop would react that way.

Preferred, sure. But Pisskop would know that there is zero chance of Maxous actually protecting him considering Maxous wanted him dead at the end of D1.

Pisskop also isn't the only PR. It would make sense if he wanted other PRs to be protected as well.

Okay? Why does that even matter in an alignment context? You don't think he would hold those opinions as mafia?

I don't think he would say as scum "Oh hey, maxous you suck for not protecting me or a PR".

[3dicerolling]

So you think Varsoon's L-2 vote on you D1 was a mafia move?

Eh. More null than anything to me.

[3dicerolling]

That doesn't sound like fun at all.

[3dicerolling]

varsoon hasn't made a post in 4 days 20 hours huehue

Shloop boo boop.

[3dicerolling]

I posted my reads. I'm waiting for claims. What else do you want from me?

[3dicerolling]

@3dicerolling -

Hi. Please answer my Post 1017. What is it about Varsoon that you find scummy?

What is it with people in this game, seriously?

Already answered this some in the readslist, but basically: I liked him early. As more people began weighing in, he seemed to fade back a lot. He doesn't express a whole lot of reads, just on a few specific people. He spent most of the day on your wagon. Now, as I'm re-reading it, his jump on me does look kind of weird considering he was townreading me before. He doesn't have much interaction with BRantz.

okay you did do some stuff but you ignored ocean's question and i dunno it's just weird

Good grief, I miss one question as opposed to pisskop missing a kajillion.

[3dicerolling]

Yep, I'm just VT. Professor Vasquez Rembrite.

[3dicerolling]

Rules post even says that there is at least one VT in the game, so get rekt.

[3dicerolling]

Imma tell you that you can't say something ambiguous like "One of our investigators is probably a liar" and not give it any bacing

[3dicerolling]

If you are so sure one is lying varsoon, then which one do you think it is? When I flip town, do you think that points more to xtomx town or scum?

p:edit - I don't think the mod would allow for that oversight. I would basically become an IC.

[3dicerolling]

I don't really like massclaiming until later, but with three investigatives claimed I figured that was pretty much all the PRs. Then lala claimed non-consec jailkeeper. Then you claimed sensor.

I'm now realizing that leaves me as VT with only fuzzy and dier left to claim.

Maybe I am the only VT -_-

[3dicerolling]

I'm pretty sure we can confirm roleblocker next day actually. Let's play out this scenario,

I'm not lynched today. During the night, scum kill an investigative and roleblock the other. We now have confirmed roleblocker, which explains why you got the results you got. Or scum pull WIFOM and don't roleblock, which gets us a free investigative result.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this seems like the legit play?

[3dicerolling]

Wait, I wonder if lala targeted xtomx?

[3dicerolling]

I think I get what varsoon is saying. It's not really important now though. We can talk about it after the game is over.

[3dicerolling]

That picture reminds me of Binding of Isaac mafia.

[3dicerolling]

Wow I never noticed that.

[3dicerolling]

If it's humid enough, 35c is kinda chilly.
We'd get as low as 10c most winters in Louisiana and while we usually wouldn't have a freeze all winter, damn it was cold.

OH HEY, someone actually lives in the same state as me. I thought I was all alone here.

[3dicerolling]

Dier, you need to claim.

[3dicerolling]

I think we rule out an investigative depending on what roles are in the game.

[3dicerolling]

lalaladucks - Non-consecutive night Jailkeeper
Xtoxm - Cowardly
OceanWind - Gunsmith
TheFuzzylogic99 - Bus driver
pisskop - Vanilla cop
3dicerolling - VT
Koggz - Reflexive friendly neighbor
Dierfire - VT
Varsoon - 1-shot sensor

These are the claims so far. From my perspective because I know I'm town, I know xtomx is either lying or was roleblocked. The latter of which makes the most sense. Given the roles claimed, this points to lala most likely being scum.

When I was thinking about the list of claims, I thought to myself, "what role doesn't fit". The answer? Gunsmith. The only guns in this game are with the mafia, unless someone is lying and is SK, which doesn't look likely atm.

Vanilla cop makes some sense because there are two vanillas and the rest are prs. The way xtomx claimed makes me think he is town. I'm not 100% on sensor or bus driver, but if bus driver claim is true it could also be scum.

My candidates for lynch atm are lala, ocean, and fuzzy. I would much rather not lynch ocean today though because if he does happen to be town, it would be nice to get another result.

So I'm going to

VOTE: laladucks

[3dicerolling]

Yeah, I got lazy and skimmed it. I'll actually read into it now if you want.

P:Edit - You're garbage.

[3dicerolling]

You do realize if pisskop is town, we are throwing away a night's investigative by lynching him right? That's why I don't want to lynch you today either.

Try somewhere else. If somewhere else is on me, I'm fine with that.

P:edit - Yes let's investigate her with the investigative role you want to lynch, right?

[3dicerolling]

3Dice, what happened to your suspicion of Varsoon?

I'm getting a town-gamesolving vibe from his recent posts, and also the sensor claim has kind of thrown me off. I'm okay at setup spec, but it's definitely not my strong suit.

And actually, pisskop is a lot nicer this game then the last game I was in with him.

[3dicerolling]

Was that the Rob blitz?

Yes.

the sensor claim has kind of thrown me off.

What does "kind thrown me off" mean? That you think his claim is legit?

It's hard to check if his claim is legit. I've never seen a sensor in a game before, and I haven't seen it in any games I've read either. It's kind of awkward for me, I guess you could say.

@Varsoon - Does your role say if you get roleblocked that your shot will return to you?

And if we lynch lala and she is roleblocker, we will get all our results unchallenged (except for the night kill)

[3dicerolling]

I'm pretty sure we can confirm roleblocker next day actually. Let's play out this scenario,

I'm not lynched today. During the night, scum kill an investigative and roleblock the other. We now have confirmed roleblocker, which explains why you got the results you got. Or scum pull WIFOM and don't roleblock, which gets us a free investigative result.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this seems like the legit play?

What do you think about this pisskop? Correct me if this is a terrible idea somehow.

[3dicerolling]

It's hard to check if his claim is legit. I've never seen a sensor in a game before, and I haven't seen it in any games I've read either. It's kind of awkward for me, I guess you could say.

So, what does that mean? Town or Mafia? Okay, you've never seen a sensor before. How does that have any effect on your Varsoon suspicion? You said Varsoon was mafia. What were the posts of Varsoon's that changed your mind?

I'm obviously conflicted so it doesn't mean town or mafia to me. Posts such as 1206, 1150, and just play in general.

[3dicerolling]

Roleblocker is roleblocker. How do we confirm them as town?


We also have lying scum.

No, I was just saying we could confirm a roleblocker in the game, but I guess that's not really necessary anymore with lala's claim.

[3dicerolling]

Looks like it's me or ducks today. If I die today, ducks needs to go tomorrow.

[3dicerolling]

He can hang right after 3dice.

Wrong. If I die, lala dies right after me, but nice try lining up lynches again.

[3dicerolling]

He can hang right after 3dice.

Wrong. If I die, lala dies right after me, but nice try lining up lynches again.

You won't be making decisions from the dead thread after you die.

I'll be more confirmed town than you when I'm dead, so suck it.

[3dicerolling]

No, people need to lynch me or ducks. If ducks flips roleblocker, then scum can only stop one investigative; however, if we lynch varsoon, and he flips 1-shot sensor, that's throwing a great role opportunity down the toilet. Plus it gives scum the opening to roleblock a different player if not varsoon.

So no, we aren't lynching varsoon or pisskop or you today.

[3dicerolling]

No, people need to lynch me or ducks. If ducks flips roleblocker, then scum can only stop one investigative; however, if we lynch varsoon, and he flips 1-shot sensor, that's throwing a great role opportunity down the toilet. Plus it gives scum the opening to roleblock a different player if not varsoon.

So no, we aren't lynching varsoon or pisskop or you today.

Of course we aren't lynching me today. Appeasing me by telling me that is a bad move, scum.

I'll happily lynch you over Ducks but this is not a smart move. If you are town, you know you are town but you don't know that Varsoon is town. Better to vote him.

If I was alive, I would consider lynching you tomorrow. Don't act like I'm appeasing, when I clearly don't care what you think.

I don't mind being lynched over varsoon if varsoon is the role he says he is; however, ducks role is the closest thing to a roleblocker that has been claimed and I know xtomx must've been roleblocked. You'd either have to be an idiot or mafia not to want to kill lala after I flip town.

[3dicerolling]

Why can't Varsoon be the roleblocker?

He could be, but with a bodyguard already flipped, I highly doubt jailkeeper is in the game. Plus, jailkeeper can easily be a cover up for a scum roleblocker.

[3dicerolling]

I didn't realize you claimed macho.

[3dicerolling]

What happens if varsoon gets roleblocked?

[3dicerolling]

You forgot yall, varsoon

[3dicerolling]

You forgot yall, varsoon

Why is this your contribution after all these pages? No comment on my question about your read on Varsoon. No comment about my post on Dierfire?

I'm too tired for content. Or maybe I'm just illiterate like varsoon. Take your pick.

[3dicerolling]

It's not that Varsoon, I'm about to go to sleep and I have a 12 hour road trip tomorrow.

[3dicerolling]

@dier - What about the vote disabler?

[3dicerolling]

I'm more concerned with which competent player is going to push Lala tomorrow when I'm dead because it's sure not ocean, and it's sure not Lala, and I'm not even sure fuzzy understands what's going on.

[3dicerolling]

oh hi dice Im swiss cheese

By Swiss cheese you mean I volunteer to be a competent player?

[3dicerolling]

We also need to be prepared if an investigative fakes a guilty. That's a strong possibility.

P:Edit - I'm measuring competency with current game willingness to listen to a dead townie's dying wishes.

[3dicerolling]

actually yes that is an awful plan two townies in two days no

:[

How do you know I'm a townie?

[3dicerolling]

Mkay.

[3dicerolling]

I already said I have no idea about sensor. I also have no meta with Varsoon, so I don't know how good he is at fakeclaiming.

If Varsoon is scum, he could be the vote remover. Roleblocker is also possible, but I think it's you.

Your claim can easily be hidden with the roleblocker shots. Heck, you could even be a jail keeper, who jail kept xtomx last night. Either way, I think you're scum.

[3dicerolling]

Are you proposing 4 scum, Lala? With lovers? And a scum bomb? And a vote remover?

[3dicerolling]

Mafia wiki says that sensor is "painfully overpowered"

[3dicerolling]

Koggz is useless, but lane was pretty town.

[3dicerolling]

@Koggz: Since the massclaim, multiple players have expressed that all of our claimed investigatives are likely not true; it seems like too much town power.

Mafia wiki says that sensor is "painfully overpowered"

Sensor is overpowered.
I'm a one-shot sensor.
In a setup where Mafia has a fucking day-kill.
In a setup with false-negatives for sensor.
Stop acting like me being a 1-shot sensor in this setup is anything like being an unhinged sensor in a normal setup; the only common thread is the word 'sensor'. Insisting that my claim is less likely to be true because of worthless logic like this should be grounds for suspicion (of competence).


I'm far more comfortable with a 3Dice lynch than a lalaladucks lynch.
If I'm blocked by ducks for it, ohwell.

This is actually really scummy. You are blatantly overreacting and making assumptions based on something I was just referencing from a website. You respond to the slightest suspicion of your claim with backlash and you use it throw up a facade to vote me.

@Everyone else - While I said lynch Lala tomorrow, keep a heavy eye on Varsoon. This opportunistic jump has caught my eye.

[3dicerolling]

Is it a blatant over-reaction to point out when another player is

literally wrong

?

You were referencing that the wiki says Sensor is overpowered.
My backlash is because I made the assumption that you were making the connection that because I am a kind of sensor, my claim is therefore an overpowered claim.
Sorry.

Why did you even bring up that the wiki says sensor is overpowered?

Because I was trying to lend credence to the idea of the claim being fake. If I tunnel every player without considering them being a different alignment, then I just suck at Mafia. I'm trying to consider each side, so when I die, my reads can be solid.

[3dicerolling]

You must have not been paying any attention in Mana Khemia if you think I'm scum Varsoon.

[3dicerolling]

3Dice, I already admitted that I am illiterate; what about Mana Khemia would indicate you're not scum here?

So if you were trying to lend credence to my claim being fake by using the logic that sensor is a strong role (as stated on the wiki), why is a 'blatant over-reaction' to express how my role is functionally different than Sensor as described and discussed on the wiki page?

Titus forced serial killer on me. I never gave up because I was town vig. This game I have a literal cop guilty, and I haven't given up. Plus, my posting style is usually similar in my town games. I'm surprised you haven't noticed.

Your tone in the post is offended and surprised and backlashish.

[3dicerolling]

If you want to observe the obvious difference (because I suck as scum), then you can go here http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=63842

If you want to mislynch me, you can go here https://www.google.com/search?q=bad+pla ... C1YZBtM%3A

[3dicerolling]

Well you could look back to my meta like a year ago, buuuuuuuut I doubt it's the same.

Well let's see, I die today, tom most likely dies at night, ocean probably gets blocked. Pisskop either fakes a guilty on dier, or confirms dier as town. You either fake your sensor or confirm certain players; however, with the vote disabler running amuck, there will be no way to check whether you are telling the truth or not by lynching you. Lynching me is a sticky situation indeed. I guess the best course of action is lynching lala tomorrow because, I legit do not believe jailkeeper claim at all. One protective is enough IMO.

xtomx
koggz
dierfire

Are untouchable.

Fuzzy's claim is bizarre, but his play is garbage, so I wouldn't doubt it if he flipped scum.

Ocean/pisskop/varsoon are meh. I really don't like your recent post on me varsoon and 1-shot sensor with all these investigatives is pretty fishy. Honestly though, I think ocean's gunsmith is the most out of place role. Literally, the only guns would be bomb (scum), scum (scum), and suzune (If her miller applies to this).

Lala needs to burn.

[3dicerolling]

I really dont think further talking is going to clarify the game today. We have our datum, lets kill something and move on.

Talking is really all I can do at this point. Get as much of my thoughts on the table as possible.

[3dicerolling]

Jailkeeper and macho don't even make sense in the same game.

[3dicerolling]

I agree; I think that if there is scum between you and lalalala, it's lalala.
I'm only willing to comprimise lynch you because a lot of my townreads are pretty sure lynching you is the right thing to do and I'm honeslty not that great at town; I'm willing to trust them.

I also think Ocean's role is super out of place.
Probably a fakeclaim, /shrug.
Especially given the macho modifier.

Are you not townreading xtomx or pisskop?

[3dicerolling]

Bodyguard is protective. Maxous was bodyguard. Maxous was in this game.

Think about this: The point of jailkeeper is to protect a player, but limit the strength of the protection by roleblocking them as well. Macho cannot even be protected at all, much less roleblocked. How do those work together at all?

P:Edit - Honestly, xtomx didn't really strike me as mafia. If he was mafia, I would think that he would keep pushing me, then claim he was roleblocked the next day, but instead, he believes my reaction to be genuine and changes his opinion on his claimed guilty. I guess it could be a plot for ultimate town cred, but I doubt it given how quick he was to outright claim a guilty on me.

[3dicerolling]

Bodyguard is protective. Maxous was bodyguard. Maxous was in this game.

Think about this: The point of jailkeeper is to protect a player, but limit the strength of the protection by roleblocking them as well. Macho cannot even be protected at all, much less roleblocked. How do those work together at all?

No, my role only disallows me from being protected, not from being roleblocked.

My mistake, I was thinking ascetic. So basically, a jailkeeper would just roleblock you. How is that good in any way?

You haven't answered my question about Ducks.

The reason I voted ducks day 1 was due to a perspective I had about there opening. When they replace in, most of what they say is appearing to looks transparent; however, if you actually look in depth to what she says, all she really does is summarize what happens. Sure she says some things are null-town and some things are scummy, but there is no justification to these claims, which makes me think they had no justification to begin with.

None of her play has seriously impressed me. She's feigned interest in solving the game (she made that table), but then literally did nothing with it. Post 1626 takes literally no stance toward either my or varsoon's alignment. It appears like she thinks her or varsoon is scum.... but then oh wait what if it's me. Frankly it seems odd that she would prefer my lynch right now given that pisskop can check whether I have a role or not (therefore making me not scum and not roleblocker) and given the fact that she doesn't think it's likely varsoon's role is in the game.

I could go on about stuff, but that sounds boring and you can read her ISO for yourself.

If you have any other questions, I don't mind answering.

[3dicerolling]

Honestly though, I think ocean's gunsmith is the most out of place role. Literally, the only guns would be bomb (scum), scum (scum), and suzune (If her miller applies to this).

not gunsmith

If this game was a play, you would be cast as the tree.

[3dicerolling]

We want everyone sensored except xtomx and dier correct?

[3dicerolling]

Right, so we want you, me, tom, koggz and Varsoon on?

[3dicerolling]

Honestly though, I think ocean's gunsmith is the most out of place role. Literally, the only guns would be bomb (scum), scum (scum), and suzune (If her miller applies to this).

not gunsmith

If this game was a play, you would be cast as the tree.

but we already have a tree stump

Koggz can be a rock then.

[3dicerolling]

I'm on vacation dude. I'm not going to make a full dive, but I will comment on some things.

[3dicerolling]

Mmmmm, give me some time to think about it. No reason to rush this.

[3dicerolling]

I was town. Nice job waiting while I was one V/LA....

[3dicerolling]

Like I said, burn ducks, eyes on mr. Sticky fingers Varsoon.

[3dicerolling]

And please someone don't let ocean lead tomorrow. His reads are absolutely garbage.

[3dicerolling]

Next time you are town, try actually responding to points against you so and commit to reads and positions so that people can actually read you.

THERE'S A LITTLE THING NEXT TO THE CORNER OF MY NAME. IT SAYS "V/LA". IT MEANS VACATION, OR LIMITED ACCESS. YOU KNOW, LIKE HOW I SAID I COULDN'T FULL DIVE RIGHT NOW?

DON'T EVEN TELL ME TO COMMIT TO READS, I WAS AND STILL AM COMMITTED TO LALA. YOU WERE WAFFLING ALL DAY 1. DON'T BRING THIS CRAP TO ME LIKE YOUR SOME WORLD RENOUNED MAFIA PLAYER.

[3dicerolling]

HEY GUESS WHAT. MAYBE THE ONLY PERSON THAT MAKES SENSE IN A TRAINWRECK OF A SETUP HAS MORE INFORMATION THAN EVERYONE ELSE. HAVE YOU EVER THOUGHT ABOUT THAT?

[3dicerolling]

Did you even look at Lala's vote on me? OBVIOUSLY NOT. Because if you had, you would see she used no reasoning whatsoever, but YOU ARE STUCK IN YOUR TUNNEL OF DEATH AND COULD ONLY STARE AT ME ALL GAME DAY.

[3dicerolling]

I have no other information to go on. I don't know if Varsoon is Mafia. His compliance to work with me was townish, but him moving his vote around was pretty scummy.

[3dicerolling]

You're probably town, albeit, EXTREMELY stubborn.

[3dicerolling]

Pisskop has gotten more meh as the day has gone on.

[3dicerolling]

Youve gotten a but more meh as this day went on

You've gotten butt.

[3dicerolling]

I was professor Vasquez rembrite.

[3dicerolling]

Oh this is still unlocked.

Boop.

[3dicerolling]

Ugh, this was such a bad game. Not even our PRs failing at life, my reads were bad too.

[3dicerolling]

Quite possibly the first time I've ever been right about a confident day 1 scum read! I'll consider that a win

Why did you replace out again? You were obv town :/

I think this game, my town reads were a lot stronger than anything else. Had early townreads on farside, suzune, wanderer/pisskop, lane/koggz, ocean. I think based off PoE I would've been able to track down scum, but all the claims really threw me off day 1, especially xtomx's claim because that was the main reason I suspected lala.

[3dicerolling]

I appreciate the modding skull! You were very prompt, flavor was solid, setup was a bit townsided, but other than that fantastic.

[3dicerolling]

Did you confirm what response you would get if I was made no actions? I'm guessing not.

[3dicerolling]

Did you confirm what response you would get if I was made no actions? I'm guessing not.

That's the source of the confusion, methinks. Being roleblocked and legitimately detecting no motion would have given Xtoxm the same result. Seems like everyone just assumed that Xtoxm receiving no result automatically meant that he was roleblocked when he could have also just, you know, detected no motion.

I figured he did what most people would do with that role, and ask that, but I guess he just mis-assumed.

[3dicerolling]

\o/ You did good. Im glad I didnt lynch you

3dicerolling

(Prof. Vasquez Rembrite, Vanilla Townie)

has been curb-stomped into oblivion.

[3dicerolling]

"I'm blacklisting Varsoon"

Said one person ever.