Mini 1792: Baccano! Mafia [Game Over]

[Florestan]

I have a loved modifier. I am outing this because it is public.

But in all serious people should not claim modifiers since it makes it easier for silizard. If silizard is lynched then mayes acts in the fashion.

VOTE: Cerberus for helping Silizard.

[Florestan]

The modifiers being claimed are bad because it makes it easier for silizard.

[Florestan]

Okay, people really need to be careful about not slipping with regards to silizard. I already have a good idea of who isn't maize.

[Florestan]

So Cerberus am I the assasin or mafia, cause that super matters here.

[Florestan]

WTF are you guys on. Do y'all want me to out Maize to prove I know who it is? My point is that people have already softed that they aren't him and should stop. My loved status is confirmable and will show up in votecounts just TDD have been lazy and haven't done those yet.

Also Fate I asked about that pregame which is why there is that last post to the gamestart.

[Florestan]

But you could be scum loved

yeah no one has been an utter nincompoop and called me modconfirmed. The issue is that the case is 100% bullshit. I am mod-confirmed not Tzilizard. I will say though that Nos's hated effect is kinda circumspect given that it is public like mine is. The case that I don't know who the bp ic is just not accurate.

[Florestan]

It does disappear if a certain condition is met but I don't want to reveal what that condition is.

VOTE: Cerb feels like he is making an excuse to not do anything today.

[Florestan]

VOTE: Dwlee

[Florestan]

VOTE: Dwlee

Yes, except I only have one vote

I think Nos created a state in which the assasin could fall into and reveal themselves which Dwlee did.

[Florestan]

First off I love staeg and ari right now. I feel like of every one pushing the 'flores slipped even though its confirmed that he didn't" angle is wrong. The mod made a mistake and didn't include the name of Maize in my PM but I should've known who it is and I know now.

Fate feels like he is playing perfectly for me just to townread him and sheep him on katsuki. I will grant 1 between him and camnsuki but Fate has moments which induce nervousness to the extent that I am not willing to vote Camn until I independently come to same conclusion as Fate.

Nahdia needs to take this game more seriously.

Also Cerb how much experiece/how good do you think you are at mafia? (other people can weigh in on this as well)

Okay, so scratch that bit about WL and PMs.
I'm still confused by the Loved role modifier being modconfirmed, since it is stated that modifiers won't be confirmed in VCs.
I read some stupid shit the last page or so.
Like, dumb shit.

Anyway though, Flores should prolly be lynched.
VOTE: Flores

This reasoning doesn't logically add up. All this is is Ari trying to outguess the mod about the loved modifier. BTW the way my loved modifier works is that I 100% won't ever be loved in lylo and could lose it earlier, so that added to it being public just makes it a negative modifier. Like I can never catch scum with it and it makes me more likely to get lynched before lylo because of paranoia (if you think I'm mafia you shouldn't trust that I'm telling the truth about my modifier) but I will say that I am pretty sure that mafia don't have negative utility modifiers since the setup seems implicitly townsided. Scum definitely have at least a rolecop and might even have something like a scum vigi.

It could still be a slip. And they could still be scum.
How have they shown themselves as "probably not scum" to you?

I wonder why people seem to be making the assumption that if flores is loved, he can't be scum.

...

Nobody has ever said that this game. You are mistaking 'not scum for listed reasons' for 'can't be scum ever' and I'm pretty sure you are doing it on purpose unless you are super new to this kind of game. The canine's backtrack on my 'slip' is as soon as he realized he can't just push a quick lynch based off of it. No new information was called between his push and his backing off the push besides people realizing I hadn't slipped.

No Fate.
Day 1 is not the day for a Katz flip.
I will let you guys dance, but trust me, I bite.

Nahdia- you are believing Flor?
I still read a slip, and then some backtracking.
I get especially squirmy indigestion with him saying he is "mod-confirmed not-slizzard". I see no reason slizzard wouldn't have some Lynch protection, since being 3rd party sucks.

See this? This is town.

Or, well, it's clever scum faking a townslip.

But yeah. I don't know camntsuki, I didn't even care about the slot until you kept harping on about them, and made me pull up their 4 post ISO, but...this is what jumps out at me.

This doesn't make any sense at all. Not sure if Cerb and camn can really be together but jumping to this conclusion doesn't make any sense.

VOTE: Cerberus666

FYI Cerb's 'I don't do stuff d1' may be true, but the fact that he just resorts to the excuse rather than trying to improve his play is lazy scum looking for a pass d1.

[Florestan]

It is confirmed I know who Maize is. This doesn't mean I am 100% conftown, probably not actually since mod would probably be reluctant to confirm stuff like they did.

[Florestan]

Why would we not just lynch the assassin once he outs? Keep our immune IC alive?

[Florestan]

Why does an outed Silizard actually give a crap about scumhunting again?

[Florestan]

Do you know what also is super proTown? Mafia outing their partner. Doesn't mean it happens though

[Florestan]

Flor why did you think it was such a great idea to confirm yourself as not Maiza anyway

Cause I have a public love modifier which already confirmed that

[Florestan]

I'm trying. All of this game so far has been mechanics stuff which is generally NAI imo.

[Florestan]

You haven't seen anyone interacting about anything other than mechanics?

No, and I do have some reads (which I've already espoused), but the constant mechanics discussion are super not telling. I want to call the people doing it scum by ILOA but town are definitely doing it as well so that doesn't work.

[Florestan]

VOTE: Fate

[Florestan]

Why would you hammer him. It's better for him to guess wrong than it is for him to get hammered. Jeeze.

I think that he should have been able to figure out that it was thor.

[Florestan]

FUCK!

[Florestan]

Just lynch me tomorrow I'm so sorry.

[Florestan]

Unless Fate is Slizard in which case nvm I'm good.

[Florestan]

So one town lynch and 2 town kills day one. This isn't turning out well

Yeah found the lurker scum slot. Did a quick ISO because I don't remember that Alpaca was in the game. No reads, no real content, just vague boring observations.

Readlist or die...

VOTE: Alpaca

Also is the assassin just not in yet or super slowrolling?

[Florestan]

Ftr I thought he was sliLizard obviously

[Florestan]

So one town lynch and 2 town kills day one. This isn't turning out well

Yeah found the lurker scum slot. Did a quick ISO because I don't remember that Alpaca was in the game. No reads, no real content, just vague boring observations.

Readlist or die...

VOTE: Alpaca

Also is the assassin just not in yet or super slowrolling?

I think that you need to slow your roll. I know that I haven't been in the game much since the beginning but that is because this is my first game doing forum mafia on this site as well as my first one that lasts so long because my only past experiences have been with 24 hour day cycles. I am working on playing as much as I possibly can but i am still getting used to it.

Okay but do you have reads or anything to help move the game along. since you are new if you were town if you gave content you would likely just obvtown yourself and your play feels like newbscum being scared of being found out so they just shut up and make filler posts.

Also not liking Cerb in the recent pages. The fact that nobody is looking outside the whole camn-Cerb thing is really bad. Unless both of the them are the scum this game is in a bad spot.

[Florestan]

Only person I'm not sure about in your townbloc is Nosferatu.

[Florestan]

VOTE: Dwlee its either this or playing well is a scum tell

[Florestan]

I agree with the above statement though, townDwlee not finding scum would not suprise me and make me want to lynch him. Being a ball of uselessness does though.

[Florestan]

I had forgotten you were in this game level of uselessness. I reread your iso and its devoid of anything that any thought was put into.

[Florestan]

uh reread my iso Cerb is one of my top scumreads but since he already has wayyy to much stuff involving him I'm trying to deal with other people right now.

Also Dwlee oneliners are fine when they actually relate to the game. Yours don't.

[Florestan]

he doesn't.

[Florestan]

Dwlee have you ever done NKA before? Usually its better to read how other people interact with the slot (how townread they are, 1v1s, deathtunnels etc.) than the posts the slot makes.

[Florestan]

Kind of a prodge guys, sorry.
Dwlee everyone had (-) posts towards me yesterday cause people were pretty sure I scumslipped so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ . In my experience shots are rarely 'omg he called me scum let's shoot him' as you mentioned. Nahdia was almost certainly the vig shot imo since if scum actually believed she was silizard (which I did as well at the time) they would never risk wasting a shot like that for no real reason. I was super surprised when she flipped

Also Ari there is 1 partner and apparently a guilty being thrown around on him? I have seen posts referencing the guilty but don't super remember the actual post so someone linking that would be really useful, so yeah sticking your neck out for your partner isn't super useful. That said Cerb is doing a lot on the counterwagon front so I wouldn't say everyone is just jumping on this.

[Florestan]

Apalaca just claimed scum

VOTE: Apalaca

[Florestan]

No I'm serious it isn't in the town wincon to not help the assassin I'm just saying we could have made 2 groups happy

we lose a bulletproof IC. That is against our wincon.

[Florestan]

then why didn't you out who thor was?

[Florestan]

alpaca is dumb telling not scum telling (no offense)
VOTE: Florestan
that jumping onto alpaca for "scum claiming" is awful. Almost all of the times I see people pushing scum slips it is from scum themselves.

The scumclaim wasn't the about losing a BP 3p (which is super dumb but thor argued it so w/e), but his whole 'this game wouldn't be balanced with 2 BPs if scum didn't know who the other one was' post. There could be a scum vigi for all we know or my role could be scum and I'm lying about losing loved status in lylo and you would probably have to have some serious town PR to balance for that. It isn't immediately obvious, at least to me, how not knowing who Maize is so much more imbalanced for scum than the other. It feels really strongly to me like Alpaca had OGI about scum's power level and made the comment.

Again read this "Pedit: yes because there are only 2 scum so helping them out with only giving them 10 people to choose from seems fair to me instead of 11 cause even 10 seems like a lot to me that's 1 scum for 5 players" and tell me how townAlpaca puts himself in the mindset to make that comment.

[Florestan]

If the vigi was mafia aligned would you still think that Maize would be known to scum?

[Florestan]

If the vigi was mafia aligned would you still think that Maize would be known to scum?

No because than they have 3 scum and that balances out having them possibly messing up a shot on Maiza as well as having them possibly slip up and get lynched but the extra member would make it much more balanced

When did I talk about having an extra member? Obviously we know there are 2 mafia alive and neither of them are confirmed not the vigi so why is it impossible?

[Florestan]

People revealing that they weren't Maize was super stupid and me pointing it out wasn't a slip since by that point I was informed who Maize was.

[Florestan]

Was it your intention, with the above post, to imply that you had

always

known who maize was?
I want to see your thought process here.

I expected that if the mod was going to make the mistake public they should have done that immediately posted that a mod error had occurred. Because that didn't happen I was attempting to clear up the discussion with having to resort to OGI stuff, which is what I was forced to do later.

[Florestan]

So one town lynch and 2 town kills day one. This isn't turning out well

Yeah found the lurker scum slot. Did a quick ISO because I don't remember that Alpaca was in the game. No reads, no real content, just vague boring observations.

Readlist or die...

VOTE: Alpaca

Also is the assassin just not in yet or super slowrolling?

I think that you need to slow your roll. I know that I haven't been in the game much since the beginning but that is because this is my first game doing forum mafia on this site as well as my first one that lasts so long because my only past experiences have been with 24 hour day cycles. I am working on playing as much as I possibly can but i am still getting used to it.

Okay but do you have reads or anything to help move the game along. since you are new if you were town if you gave content you would likely just obvtown yourself and your play feels like newbscum being scared of being found out so they just shut up and make filler posts.

Also not liking Cerb in the recent pages. The fact that nobody is looking outside the whole camn-Cerb thing is really bad. Unless both of the them are the scum this game is in a bad spot.

OK. I agree this game needs more than us and Cerb.
That said- 2 points on him:
a> is the language necessary? My virgin ears.
b> I don't think claiming ascetic up front is a scummy play. I think LINKING "I'm Ascetic" with "obv don't consider lynching me until just before LYLO" is the scummy part. We should lynch him when and where WE choose.. not where HE chooses.

That is down ftr, but I think we can table the discussion for now..

lets reset:

Nosferatu

- I WANT to sheep Staeg on this.. but looking over his ISO I don really feel much scumminess here. I don't like Hated claims, but if it's true its town right? Maybe Slizard? I think town though. So I am not feeling it for now.

Thor665

- I am townreading this slot. He is the townthor I remember from back in the day.

Cerberus v666

Discussion tabled.

Aristophanes

- Reasonably strong townread here.. although maybe its the buddying. Which I appreciate. Willing to sheep.

Florestan

- That slip up front was a compelling thing.. but things have turned up since. Probably town?

Staeg

I WANT this to be a townslot. I like the hunting. But I am POE-ing myself into a corner here with all these townreads. I could totally be getting fooled here.

POE leaves these 3 as the not-town, If I assume Cerebrustown:

AlpacaAlpaca

"aw, Shucks" in 555 is a classic tell. Otherwise mostly lurky. Again, I could totally go this way.

Dwlee99

- His ISO is SUPER THIN, and I could totally see scum here.

heuristically_alone

- Also a thin ISO.. but I get a tiny townvibe from it.

OK. Who is scum/3p? They are in here [AlpacaAlpaca, Dwlee99, Cerberus, heuristically], probably in that order, in my current opinion.

Do we have a townbloc yet? Lets run up Alpaca or Dwlee.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Dwlee99

Only person I'm not sure about in your townbloc is Nosferatu.

These, for those reading along, are the posts in question with camntsuki's readslist in the middle.

What about this is in the smallest bit scummy? I said that I think that cerb and Alpaca are my scumreads, Camn posted a PoE that includes both of them and I was fine going along with it. That's all that this shows. Unless not being content that Nos was lock town is a scum tell than I have no idea where you are trying to go with this.

[Florestan]

So tell us now exactly how it played out.. had the mod given you then new info when you wrote that, then? He told you- oh, my bad.. Maize is actually X... and then you hit the thread and wrote 113? IF so, did you believe at that point that NOT knowing Maize actually WAS a scum- or assassin- tell? Did you end up asking the mod to post in thread?

Blah blah blah "people stop softing you're not maize"
"peeps:you should already know who maize is if you're town"
"PM mod:should I know who Maize is?"
"Mod: yes Alban is Maize" "I know who Maize is I'm not scum/Silizard, still stop softing"
"peeps:Weird still scum slip let's go"
"Peeps:Yeah look at his first post he clearly didn't know who Maize was!"
"Flore:I didn't at the time mod mistake"
"Mod: Yo OGI here Florestan is telling the truth"

[Florestan]

Yes

[Florestan]

why not mention the mod error right then? why try and play it off?

@thor- how precise do you think our mod is about times?

I generally try to limit OGI, it just feels lame to me.

[Florestan]

Alright life got a shit easier to I'll try going ham. We have 10 days so give me some time.

Also I'm pretty sure I can't quote the exact time I got the message so suffice to say that obviously I knew who Maize was when I said I knew who Maize was.

[Florestan]

Alpaca: this iso is pretty empty tbh. I was pretty liberal with what I grabbed.

I've been going back and reaching each people's post individually and I think that currently think that Cerberus is town and I have a pretty town ish feel from dwlee but I'm still on the fence on the whole assassin accusations

reading each post individually feels weird to say imo. Like I don't get why Alpaca feels the need to share it and then not give the reasons he was townreading cerb and Dwlee. It sucks that nobody asked him at the time to explain them. BTW my main issue with this is that I don't think there was content from either to be townread but in my first game town did that sort of thing all the time so idk.

In my opinion Camntsuki has done nothing but shirk off Fate's accusations and than proceed to be hooked by Flores. By ducking out when Fate was attacking him he was able to quickly shift the doubt that Fate had cast onto Flores again who in my opinion has a townread until future thought and/or slipups.

I am getting some town reads specifically from Cerberus, Ari, Fate and Nahdia and some dwindling feelings about Dwlee but my strongest feeling for scum so far is Camntsuki so pending further thought
VOTE: camntsuki

Alpaca just threw 7 reads with basically no explanation for any unless any of you understand what 'getting hooked' means. Alpaca one tip if you are town and that is to explain what exactly made you townread each person.

So far he is the only one that I can fully see being possible scum because aside from I think 2 serious posts the rest of his have been emotes and shrugging off what people have told him. Also although I may be wrong he is actually currently only at 4 votes hitting a high of 5 but WhiteLight unvoted so back down to 4.

pedit: I personally thought that Flores made a scumslip at the begining along with some other people however than the mod confirmed that there was a mistake and so he actually didn't know the identity of Maiza at the time. However although this confirms he isn't assassin it also doesn't confirm he isn't scum I just think that there isn't enough proof yet so in my mind he there isn't much sketchy about him and it just so happened there was an unfortunate mistake. Regarding the contradiction I honestly view it as a stupid mistake on his part where he got defensive and than afterwards realized that he doesn't have the ID on Maiza and than messaged the mod to get it straightened out.

With Camntsuki even when he was around he didn't make many serious posts often just quoting others and adding emotes even when those quotes were staight accusations from others. Aside from his points on Flores he hasn't really done any I can think of as pro town

This is a lot of summarizing and not real analysis, not a huge fan.

So one town lynch and 2 town kills day one. This isn't turning out well

Yeah found the lurker scum slot. Did a quick ISO because I don't remember that Alpaca was in the game. No reads, no real content, just vague boring observations.

Readlist or die...

VOTE: Alpaca

Also is the assassin just not in yet or super slowrolling?

I think that you need to slow your roll. I know that I haven't been in the game much since the beginning but that is because this is my first game doing forum mafia on this site as well as my first one that lasts so long because my only past experiences have been with 24 hour day cycles. I am working on playing as much as I possibly can but i am still getting used to it.

no readlist and yet he lived . Not a huge fan of the excuses instead of content. There has been nearly no content in his iso, and there are a lot of posts that are just fluff.

Ok so in my opinion I think that Cerberus has only helped the game at this point and his original claim at the beginning I thought of as a town move since why would scum claim acsetic considering they could waste somebody's role on themselves potentially cancelling out a pro town move.

I also personally don't like the whole cam and fate thing but I do fully recognize that fate if he wanted to could actually have defended himself instead of just joking around so I have put that behind me and logged cam as possibly untrustworthy in the future.

And looking at just cam and cerb is probably bad but is the major event to happen day 2 which is why all the focus is there.

And I have no idea what you mean by this.

Now, could I swing to AlpacaAlpaca for the "Aw, Shucks" tell?
Absolutely. But not yet.

I know it isn't specifically alignment indicative but I see claiming ascetic early as a more town than scum thing to do. Since as scum you could try and bait someone into wasting an ability on you.

Also is ascetic considered a negative modifier? Because from what I saw on the wiki briefly it looked pretty neutral to me since it blocks postitve and negative effects

This is the first real content from Alpaca, I feel like the townread on Cerb is way stronger than it should but.

So my original train of thought was thinking that for that reason scum might not claim it to try and get someone to mess up on them but I somehow forgot to think about later when everyone realizes they are ascetic and hadn't claimed and than gets lynched. I will get around to being intelligent one of these days.

Ftr the reason that Ascetic claims are scary is because they can't be investigated by town. Basically its akin to a miller claim that essentially makes the player invest-immune but also more suspicious. You should not townread them for being ascetic.

Let's say hypothetically of course since that's the only way you'll listen that what I said in 555 was me being stupid, no matter what I say you won't beleive me because I can't prove something intangible so there isn't much I can do but stand by my inexperience and stupidity as you'll see through most of my posts. All of which can of course in turn be viewed as a scum being bad

Doesn't this read like crumbling to anybody else? It might be just me but I don't like this. 555 isn't even that bad in the first place, it was just more fluff.

Ok so I have to say Dwlee you seem to have hit the point where you realize that people know you're scum and have stopped caring. Your response to people saying you are scum in Post 731, 733, 768, and 785 has been laughing and just ignoring it and than going on to ask a question that for a proper answer would have needed some rereading on your part and yet you missed Thor's original response to it earlier in the day. You don't seem to have a defense except for

If skimming was only done by scum I would be scum every.game.

which is really weak, I mean if you are going to ask a question and off your own opinion on it than do the research first.

Even on the chance that I will seem scummy for placing Dwlee on l-1 he doesn't seem to be putting effort into this game anymore and his 0 defense has me thinking that he really is scum.
VOTE: Dwlee99

TBH I love this push, not a fan of Dwlee this game but based on the fact that he is still alive I'm assuming that he always does nothing. Still this is a pretty easy target so Alpaca doesn't get too much credit for this.

I still can't tell if all of this recent activity from you is a last ditch effort to come off as not scum since a few pages ago you seemed to not care about anyone's accusations, or if you are actually town and are now starting to go through and perform reads on people because of the heat on you. My biggest issue with you so far was you responding with things like "lol" when Camn suggested you were scum and than said "ok" when Camn said you will die, it didn't really seem like you were putting up a defence because you thought that you had lost but than when you saw that nobody was hammer voting you went on to do reads and analysis to seem more towny and get someone to unvote you.

Meh continuation.

If the vigi was mafia aligned would you still think that Maize would be known to scum?

No because than they have 3 scum and that balances out having them possibly messing up a shot on Maiza as well as having them possibly slip up and get lynched but the extra member would make it much more balanced

Still agree with Ari that this is a slip ftr.

I was genuinely thinking that vig was a town only roll since that is exactly what it sounds like to me, vigs don't work with bad guys is a generic rule. I get how modifiers aren't alignment indicative however I don't see vig being a possible scum class so I assumed he was asking theoretical questions about balance in the game.

I guess but you clearly knew that the vigi was scum, but you added him as a third member.

If it helps I didn't think that Aristo jumping on me when we were discussing my wagon without seemingly reading the past 2 pages where others had questioned me and I was explaining myself. At the very least he didn't mention it or give me any questions. Afterwards when I re explained everything to him / when Flores questioned me he started actually talking

What is still trying to say?

We had been discussing why I said what I said and I was being questioned for it. The people who had been questioning decided I was stupid and it wasn't a scumslip than Aristo who seemingly didnt read any of that comes in in post 947, quotes the post where I "slipped" and votes me. If he had read any of the text after I had said that he probably would have commented on it but he didn't, just voting me for what I said. I than had to re explain to him what I had already explained earlier and than me and him started talking. Voting people without fulling catching up seems pretty dubious to me.

I feel like when Alpaca gets under pressure his quality of understandability drops significantly, but I'm not sure how strong of a scum tell that is.

[Florestan]

Eve Genoard, Town Triggered Loved
Loved but I lose my loved status when 8 players exit the game.

[Florestan]

lol we need to hydra sometime.

[Florestan]

Cerb, you mean Scum could "accidentally slip" who Maiza is like this if they knew?

Why would you hammer him. It's better for him to guess wrong than it is for him to get hammered. Jeeze.

I think that he should have been able to figure out that it was thor.

FUCK!

I thought fate was sliziard,

you thought Fate was silizard

wtf.

[Florestan]

Nahdia and florestan scum slipped. Every town player knows the identity on maiza and the fact that they suggested they don't is pretty bad.

~bee

Nahdia did no such thing. Flores did though. We should probably lynch them.

oppurtunistic, cool thing about being about to die is that I can presume I'm town for all my analysis since its all but public knowledge.

Okay, so scratch that bit about WL and PMs.
I'm still confused by the Loved role modifier being modconfirmed, since it is stated that modifiers won't be confirmed in VCs.
I read some stupid shit the last page or so.
Like, dumb shit.

Anyway though, Flores should prolly be lynched.
VOTE: Flores

Weird, since I was confirmed not what he thought but he still voted me for the slip without any other reason.

I beg to differ!

And I can pull whatever obvscum shit I want!
I have a reputation as an easy mislynch to uphold you k ow!

Awkward, feeels like scum making an excuse to lower the bar for their quality of play. It didn't fit cleanly, felt shoehorned in.

The jump on Flores was good.
The appeal to WL to shut up was as well.
I have my reasons.

I was going to complain about this but I actually get a little bit of town vibes from this.

If you have seen scum scramble to kill you, then let us know who they are.
Else you are playing against your wincon!

ew, feels like scum that is worried,

Why is "loved" an immediate reason not to vote Flores?

I see that you are risking your credibility on this. But I am not asking for that. I wanted to sort this read reason out, for which you gave me what is essentially Meta and Interpersonal Relations. That is what's not enough.

I believe he is town.

I can see we are not going to come to terms on this anytime soon.

Ninja'd by a GODDAMNED GOOD POINT!!!
Thanks Cerb!

meh in that it argues that lack of towniness is scummy but I will agree that people overhyped the loved modifier.

Also, we are

Not Lynching Camntsuki Today!!!

Thanks.

This feels pretty towny to me.

Also, we are

Not Lynching Camntsuki Today!!!

Thanks.

You can't just say that about the leading wagon without saying why or offering a better wagon!


~Bee

I can so!
Flores knowing Maiza now in concerning, as it is giving him a free ride from many of you that he didn't earn.

Is there anyone thus far whose lynch you would oppose?

There are several. I would not support at lynch on Fates, Dwlee, or steag. At this current moment also not one on Cerb.

As far as Flores goes. My partner and I are split on this opinion. I personally think the way he blamed everyone for the misread, talks about possibilities about his slot, and his stance on the loved modifier and how it is impossible for scum to have it. There are several posts that ping me too...

~Suz

@Bee, alternate lynch is still Flores.

Why would we not just lynch the assassin once he outs? Keep our immune IC alive?

Because it makes 2 BP ICs, one of which we will sacrifice at some point. We are promising not to lynch him right now.
Do you agree?

A lot of pseudo analysis with out much transparency, not a fan.

I'm trying. All of this game so far has been mechanics stuff which is generally NAI imo.

That's all?
You haven't seen anyone interacting about anything other than mechanics?

Seriously.

yeah this is fair.

I'll consider reconsidering.

In the meantime, I'll cave on this one.
VOTE: Fate

I want a BP IC and I am not sure we can trust him.
Too much risk involved.

Though it'll make the game a lot more boring

Ninja'd
What's thus VC at anyway?

Obviously easily jumped on to a town that slipped again, but to be fair I was confident that he was outed as well so it makes sense.
I still don't understand why town would ever claim silizard like fate did.

Wait, you guys believed Camntsuki's obviously fake claim?
The obviously fake one?

*sigh*

and the reason that Ari doesn't vote camn here is?

Well, he is the one I am a little uncertain about, too.
But I think WAY less scumm than Alpaca or Dwlee, right?

Agreed.
Dwlee having a low postcounr makes me think scum, so I'm in.
VOTE: Dwlee

Def can see Alpaca or Cerb Vig shots tn. Likely the former unless an SK.

Same thing I said about Alpaca, dwlee is an easy lynch but that slot isn't super towny or anything and does need more content. Weird on the camn sheep though.

Cerb is quite yucky these past couple pages.

I should really read more thoroughly though. That'll happen, like, tomorrow probably. I might get ambitious though..

This feels towny, similar thought process.

VOTE: AlpacaAlpacaAlpaca

Yay, townnn

Now we have a confirmed BP town for the rest of the game

DAFUQ!?!?

Ari as I have already explained when cerb and cam asked me about that it's because I actually wanted to work together with the assassin to get a double pronged victory. I wanted us to have the assassins help in scum hunting and his vote for when we find scum, and once we had voted off scum we would let him have maiza which loses us 1 scum 1 town and 1 assassin which to me looks like it's in the best interest of town. I was sad because even though nobody else wanted to work together with the assassin, now there is guaranteed no way for us to achieve a double victory. Which in itself isn't bad for town but I wanted to get rid of an assassin and a scum in one swoop by sacrificing a town.

Hold up for just a sec though.
I was happy to work with Sziliard, and I believe I mentioned it explicitly. I think a dual victory would have been great.

However, HA was not playing a protown game. They deserved to be lynched as they were playing a scummy game and we're, in fact, scum. He was in a corner and took a shot. He was wrong. So be it! Had he claimed Sziliard D1, we could have worked with him. But he did not. Had he made a protown effort he'd have lived, but he did not. His missed shot leaves us with an unkillable conftown. Why in God's mane would you be upset about that!?!? This is where I find issue with your stance here.

super valid and stuff,

If the vigi was mafia aligned would you still think that Maize would be known to scum?

No because than they have 3 scum and that balances out having them possibly messing up a shot on Maiza as well as having them possibly slip up and get lynched but the extra member would make it much more balanced

Alpaca confirms Vig is not scum as it would be a third scum member in a game with 2 scum plus Sziliard.
This is, I am fairly certain, a scumslip, as well as confirmation that the Vig is town.

Camntsuki, can we go back to the Dwlee lynch and let the Vig take care of Alpaca?

eh, I don't really see Dwlee being the obvious partner of Alpaca so this feels weird to me. It still saying that Alpaca should die though so I don't know what exactly to think.

what have you done today?

I got shot at

huh?

And I'm gonna read your iso.

HA tried to eat me.
Which means he thought I was Maiza.
Who is conftown.

And? Not sure why you think we should give you credit for this.

VOTE: Flores then.

Let the Vig take care of Alpaca.

Ugh not this. I'm absolutely never with Alpaca here so again given that you think that Alpaca slipped this makes no goddamn sense.

Overall Ari isn't my top lynch at all but I am paranoid of that slot.

Also Cerb I do think that scum know who Maize is ftr. I've already gone over this but I don't think that the mod would have confirmed I knew who Maize was unless scum had access to that information. I can't imagine getting an extra confTown wouldn't destroy the balance of the game.

[Florestan]

If you feel I misrepped anything or want to explain your though processes that would be great.

[Florestan]

Fuck this is the thing cerb mentioned where I can't push Alpaca cause then he just hammers me before I finish isoing everyone. You admitting my wall had merit and you not responding to it is awful. Also how the fuck do I jump on a train I started? I was the first person to call you out and now I'm jumping on the bandwagon of you being scum that I've pushed most of the game by now. WTF, alright I'm pretty sure that Alpaca is scum here guys.

Nothing he said made any sense whatsoever.

[Florestan]

I'm pretty sure you're at L-2, and even if you're at L-1 wouldn't forcing your top scum read to panick hammer you fulfill your needs just fine if the goal is to get town to make him a top scumspect?

No cause I haven't found his partner yet.

[Florestan]

No Fate.
Day 1 is not the day for a Katz flip.
I will let you guys dance, but trust me, I bite.

Nahdia- you are believing Flor?
I still read a slip, and then some backtracking.
I get especially squirmy indigestion with him saying he is "mod-confirmed not-slizzard". I see no reason slizzard wouldn't have some Lynch protection, since being 3rd party sucks.

This feels gamesolvey to me in a good way.

Oh you're now reduced to calling the wagon on you a petty revenge wagon?

Like we have no plans on letting a confirmed 3P live. It is a net positive for us, we get a confirmed bulletproof townie out of it.

Now that you've outted our role we outed our result HOPE YOURE HAPPY WITH THAT

So does this and a few stuff in between, Camn is a pretty safe townread.

Why Heuristically Alone over Camn?
Camn is a filthy liar, so there's that.

For the record, I kinda don't care if we lose because of this, because fuck fake guilties from town.

VOTE: camntsuki

It was Fate's fault for trying to out our role!

And Fate implicitly claimed 3p. Your push is bad, and is a good place for us to start as we head out for the day to drink.

VOTE: cerberus

yep.

I worry about him. He isn't super scummy, PER SE... but I don't like the early strategy-suggestion with his ascetic claim, although it might just be playstyle differences.
That plus my natural OMGUS about us makes me want to run him up, see what shakes out.
If he is so unhappy to be in a game with us, lets take him out of it.

PLUS.. although it might be my own conf-bias.. I don't like that he just "missed the context" in re: Fate.
Like, he made a BIG DEAL about us running Fate up.. and then looking back he just "missed the context"?
In my world, if you are going to cuss and moan and curse someone.. you read first. If you are town, that is.
If you don't care about lynching scum, and actually want more mislynches.. then maybe you make emotional pleas and propose policy-lynches. THAT is what drives >MY< vote, although my other head already hated him. His recent push on us doesn't come from the mind of a townie, IMO.

Now, could I swing to AlpacaAlpaca for the "Aw, Shucks" tell?
Absolutely. But not yet.

Again I like this a lot. They feel like experienced players so they might just be playing really well but they are always clearly approaching the game townily.

OK. I agree this game needs more than us and Cerb.
That said- 2 points on him:
a> is the language necessary? My virgin ears.
b> I don't think claiming ascetic up front is a scummy play. I think LINKING "I'm Ascetic" with "obv don't consider lynching me until just before LYLO" is the scummy part. We should lynch him when and where WE choose.. not where HE chooses.

That is down ftr, but I think we can table the discussion for now..

lets reset:

Nosferatu

- I WANT to sheep Staeg on this.. but looking over his ISO I don really feel much scumminess here. I don't like Hated claims, but if it's true its town right? Maybe Slizard? I think town though. So I am not feeling it for now.

Thor665

- I am townreading this slot. He is the townthor I remember from back in the day.

Cerberus v666

Discussion tabled.

Aristophanes

- Reasonably strong townread here.. although maybe its the buddying. Which I appreciate. Willing to sheep.

Florestan

- That slip up front was a compelling thing.. but things have turned up since. Probably town?

Staeg

I WANT this to be a townslot. I like the hunting. But I am POE-ing myself into a corner here with all these townreads. I could totally be getting fooled here.

POE leaves these 3 as the not-town, If I assume Cerebrustown:

AlpacaAlpaca

"aw, Shucks" in 555 is a classic tell. Otherwise mostly lurky. Again, I could totally go this way.

Dwlee99

- His ISO is SUPER THIN, and I could totally see scum here.

heuristically_alone

- Also a thin ISO.. but I get a tiny townvibe from it.

OK. Who is scum/3p? They are in here [AlpacaAlpaca, Dwlee99, Cerberus, heuristically], probably in that order, in my current opinion.

Do we have a townbloc yet? Lets run up Alpaca or Dwlee.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Dwlee99

This think this bloc just wins the game, since HA is out I think Ari might need to be in here imo.

Thats a better idea....if you are really town, you just nk-spec both...if you believe in nk-spec, that is.

all this asking who might be the kill is just role fishing. nobody knows but the scums and the Vig. no one else's opinion on it is even worth anything!
thus, asking is not productive, except for scum.

More good pushes.

Florestan I think is giving me townfeels on positions. It seems like he agrees with us a lot, and that is the kind of player we think is town.
But I could totally swing on THAT slot. because it could be a cognitive fallacy, I know.

Aristo we are way firmer on.
It not JUST deep meta- there is something shiningly town about his interactions day 1. Other than you, he is the most-left on my spreadsheet. I want to see him alive in LYLO for reals.

<3

Alright- I re-iso'd Flore, and you guys are right, his ISO is vapid af.
I still have a dumb nagging townread on him.. but I don't even know why anymore.
I asked my other half to take a fresh look as well.. but for now, lets try some Q&A:

@Flore

: when can you answer some questions, cuz I have some.

This is my only issue with this slot is that this switch doesn't feel geniune, but I understand it came from the timing issue so I'm fairly confident in calling Camn town.

[Florestan]

I'm pretty sure you're at L-2, and even if you're at L-1 wouldn't forcing your top scum read to panick hammer you fulfill your needs just fine if the goal is to get town to make him a top scumspect?

No cause I haven't found his partner yet.

Do you have high accuracy team callouts?

Literally only have one game on site where 1 mafia had already flipped. If you want me to just rollover I can but given that I'd rather try to solve the game I'm not sure why you are trying to stop me unless this game is seriously bastard.

[Florestan]

I was half joking....

[Florestan]

I was half joking....

So, in all seriousness - how about you push your top scumread?

He's getting shot there is no point. I don't find any fault with that shot so I'm not sure what pushing him accomplishes.

[Florestan]

VOTE: Staeg

I want to live. Cerb's iso stinks to go through ftr, not a huge fan of that slot either.

[Florestan]

I did.

[Florestan]

I mean, survivalism aside, remember when Flore had pegged Alpaca and was questing for his scumpartner?
Because I feel like everyone forgot that - Flore certainly did.

This is just survivalism, I know I'm town so its worth it. Also nothing Staeg has done has been super or anything.

[Florestan]

would oppose the Alpaca shot straight up.
That is a silly shot on a number of metrics - and no one has particularly offered a good reason to lynch or shoot him, yet you keep acting like he's a valid option for death for some reason. Whassup?

No, this is bad.

[Florestan]

He iso is empty, a lot of posts feel awkward and scummy, and he scum slipped recently. Also I don't get how much more I should be pushing Alpaca when I've already done this and he has responded in any way to it.

Alpaca: this iso is pretty empty tbh. I was pretty liberal with what I grabbed.

I've been going back and reaching each people's post individually and I think that currently think that Cerberus is town and I have a pretty town ish feel from dwlee but I'm still on the fence on the whole assassin accusations

reading each post individually feels weird to say imo. Like I don't get why Alpaca feels the need to share it and then not give the reasons he was townreading cerb and Dwlee. It sucks that nobody asked him at the time to explain them. BTW my main issue with this is that I don't think there was content from either to be townread but in my first game town did that sort of thing all the time so idk.

In my opinion Camntsuki has done nothing but shirk off Fate's accusations and than proceed to be hooked by Flores. By ducking out when Fate was attacking him he was able to quickly shift the doubt that Fate had cast onto Flores again who in my opinion has a townread until future thought and/or slipups.

I am getting some town reads specifically from Cerberus, Ari, Fate and Nahdia and some dwindling feelings about Dwlee but my strongest feeling for scum so far is Camntsuki so pending further thought
VOTE: camntsuki

Alpaca just threw 7 reads with basically no explanation for any unless any of you understand what 'getting hooked' means. Alpaca one tip if you are town and that is to explain what exactly made you townread each person.

So far he is the only one that I can fully see being possible scum because aside from I think 2 serious posts the rest of his have been emotes and shrugging off what people have told him. Also although I may be wrong he is actually currently only at 4 votes hitting a high of 5 but WhiteLight unvoted so back down to 4.

pedit: I personally thought that Flores made a scumslip at the begining along with some other people however than the mod confirmed that there was a mistake and so he actually didn't know the identity of Maiza at the time. However although this confirms he isn't assassin it also doesn't confirm he isn't scum I just think that there isn't enough proof yet so in my mind he there isn't much sketchy about him and it just so happened there was an unfortunate mistake. Regarding the contradiction I honestly view it as a stupid mistake on his part where he got defensive and than afterwards realized that he doesn't have the ID on Maiza and than messaged the mod to get it straightened out.

With Camntsuki even when he was around he didn't make many serious posts often just quoting others and adding emotes even when those quotes were staight accusations from others. Aside from his points on Flores he hasn't really done any I can think of as pro town

This is a lot of summarizing and not real analysis, not a huge fan.

So one town lynch and 2 town kills day one. This isn't turning out well

Yeah found the lurker scum slot. Did a quick ISO because I don't remember that Alpaca was in the game. No reads, no real content, just vague boring observations.

Readlist or die...

VOTE: Alpaca

Also is the assassin just not in yet or super slowrolling?

I think that you need to slow your roll. I know that I haven't been in the game much since the beginning but that is because this is my first game doing forum mafia on this site as well as my first one that lasts so long because my only past experiences have been with 24 hour day cycles. I am working on playing as much as I possibly can but i am still getting used to it.

no readlist and yet he lived . Not a huge fan of the excuses instead of content. There has been nearly no content in his iso, and there are a lot of posts that are just fluff.

Ok so in my opinion I think that Cerberus has only helped the game at this point and his original claim at the beginning I thought of as a town move since why would scum claim acsetic considering they could waste somebody's role on themselves potentially cancelling out a pro town move.

I also personally don't like the whole cam and fate thing but I do fully recognize that fate if he wanted to could actually have defended himself instead of just joking around so I have put that behind me and logged cam as possibly untrustworthy in the future.

And looking at just cam and cerb is probably bad but is the major event to happen day 2 which is why all the focus is there.

And I have no idea what you mean by this.

Now, could I swing to AlpacaAlpaca for the "Aw, Shucks" tell?
Absolutely. But not yet.

I know it isn't specifically alignment indicative but I see claiming ascetic early as a more town than scum thing to do. Since as scum you could try and bait someone into wasting an ability on you.

Also is ascetic considered a negative modifier? Because from what I saw on the wiki briefly it looked pretty neutral to me since it blocks postitve and negative effects

This is the first real content from Alpaca, I feel like the townread on Cerb is way stronger than it should but.

So my original train of thought was thinking that for that reason scum might not claim it to try and get someone to mess up on them but I somehow forgot to think about later when everyone realizes they are ascetic and hadn't claimed and than gets lynched. I will get around to being intelligent one of these days.

Ftr the reason that Ascetic claims are scary is because they can't be investigated by town. Basically its akin to a miller claim that essentially makes the player invest-immune but also more suspicious. You should not townread them for being ascetic.

Let's say hypothetically of course since that's the only way you'll listen that what I said in 555 was me being stupid, no matter what I say you won't beleive me because I can't prove something intangible so there isn't much I can do but stand by my inexperience and stupidity as you'll see through most of my posts. All of which can of course in turn be viewed as a scum being bad

Doesn't this read like crumbling to anybody else? It might be just me but I don't like this. 555 isn't even that bad in the first place, it was just more fluff.

Ok so I have to say Dwlee you seem to have hit the point where you realize that people know you're scum and have stopped caring. Your response to people saying you are scum in Post 731, 733, 768, and 785 has been laughing and just ignoring it and than going on to ask a question that for a proper answer would have needed some rereading on your part and yet you missed Thor's original response to it earlier in the day. You don't seem to have a defense except for

If skimming was only done by scum I would be scum every.game.

which is really weak, I mean if you are going to ask a question and off your own opinion on it than do the research first.

Even on the chance that I will seem scummy for placing Dwlee on l-1 he doesn't seem to be putting effort into this game anymore and his 0 defense has me thinking that he really is scum.
VOTE: Dwlee99

TBH I love this push, not a fan of Dwlee this game but based on the fact that he is still alive I'm assuming that he always does nothing. Still this is a pretty easy target so Alpaca doesn't get too much credit for this.

I still can't tell if all of this recent activity from you is a last ditch effort to come off as not scum since a few pages ago you seemed to not care about anyone's accusations, or if you are actually town and are now starting to go through and perform reads on people because of the heat on you. My biggest issue with you so far was you responding with things like "lol" when Camn suggested you were scum and than said "ok" when Camn said you will die, it didn't really seem like you were putting up a defence because you thought that you had lost but than when you saw that nobody was hammer voting you went on to do reads and analysis to seem more towny and get someone to unvote you.

Meh continuation.

If the vigi was mafia aligned would you still think that Maize would be known to scum?

No because than they have 3 scum and that balances out having them possibly messing up a shot on Maiza as well as having them possibly slip up and get lynched but the extra member would make it much more balanced

Still agree with Ari that this is a slip ftr.

I was genuinely thinking that vig was a town only roll since that is exactly what it sounds like to me, vigs don't work with bad guys is a generic rule. I get how modifiers aren't alignment indicative however I don't see vig being a possible scum class so I assumed he was asking theoretical questions about balance in the game.

I guess but you clearly knew that the vigi was scum, but you added him as a third member.

If it helps I didn't think that Aristo jumping on me when we were discussing my wagon without seemingly reading the past 2 pages where others had questioned me and I was explaining myself. At the very least he didn't mention it or give me any questions. Afterwards when I re explained everything to him / when Flores questioned me he started actually talking

What is still trying to say?

We had been discussing why I said what I said and I was being questioned for it. The people who had been questioning decided I was stupid and it wasn't a scumslip than Aristo who seemingly didnt read any of that comes in in post 947, quotes the post where I "slipped" and votes me. If he had read any of the text after I had said that he probably would have commented on it but he didn't, just voting me for what I said. I than had to re explain to him what I had already explained earlier and than me and him started talking. Voting people without fulling catching up seems pretty dubious to me.

I feel like when Alpaca gets under pressure his quality of understandability drops significantly, but I'm not sure how strong of a scum tell that is.

[Florestan]

STAEG YOU GET AN AUTO TOWN PASS

FOR LYNCHING KATSUKI

I WILL NOT LET THIS GO TO N1 WITHOUT SCUMKATSUKI FLIP

THEN I CAN BE NKD IN PEACE

Actually I got this exact same feeling from the two posts preceding yours; the jump on Flore is terrible and everyone related to it at this point should be ashamed (although the early part was nois)

vote: camntsuki

Nahdia's amazing, heuristically is questionable af (135??)°

VOTE: alban
post more.

Why him, in particular? Why anyone, actually? Is that ~really~ what you want to be doing right now?

This feels weird to me but I'm not fullly sur ewhy

I woulda been on board with the flores vote until someone said that it can't really be a scumslip, at which point more or less everything flores had done became indicative of stupid, not alignment
which is even more easily seen in the last couple of pages

I guess I like this.

HEY WEVE TALKED A LOT ABOUT A LOT OF THINGS IN THE PAST TWO APGES CERBERUS CARE TO SHARE

The last two pages were noise and nonsense, mainly.

pedit: Also, you're welcome aristo. How have you been? I can't remember the last time we played a game together, i think we have like just one together in the past? Meh. Probably doesn't matter, I don't consciously try to think about meta, so whatever.

I believe it was Inorganic Chemistry. Fun times!
Also, I've been well, you?

I like your Camntsuki townread.
Do you have any other developing reads to share at this time?

Hmm. I've been well enough. Ah, other reads. Not so much? I want to believe I'm right about Flores, and if that's the case, then Nahdia gets lots of town points, but the point fate is making about how pushing flores for that potential slip is really a very simple way for scum to push an easy mislynch is absolutely correct, and that gives me pause. I'm hopeful that she's town...but I have no reason to be certain.

Other than that, the other interactions didn't really sink in. I read it, didn't see a point to most of what people were saying, and it all got filed under null for all of them.

White Light is interesting? For obvious reasons.

Really, I need to see a lot more. I'm impressed that I'm even able to say this much to you.

Are you really playing both the "flores is scum yea" and the "but damn what an easy mislynch" angles?

This is also pretty good, it might be buddying and I've been burned there before this feels okay.

WTF are you guys on.

Do y'all want me to out Maize to prove I know who it is?

My point is that people have already softed that they aren't him and should stop. My loved status is confirmable and will show up in votecounts just TDD have been lazy and haven't done those yet.

Also Fate I asked about that pregame which is why there is that last post to the gamestart.

First off I love staeg and ari right now. I feel like of every one pushing the 'flores slipped even though its confirmed that he didn't" angle is wrong.

The mod made a mistake and didn't include the name of Maize in my PM but I should've known who it is and I know now.

So uh, which is it?

VOTE: Flores

How is this a contradiction?

moreso here as well.

Do we have a townbloc yet? Lets run up Alpaca or Dwlee.

unvote
vote: dwlee

This kinda pings me tbh. He goes surprisingly easily with the town bloc, maybe he just doesn't like Dwlee but he hasn't expressed that at all yet. This feels like Staeg is going super easy with the flow and isn't questioning things or having the paranoia that I want from him. Honestly just this post alone makes me not want to stop his wagon, even though it has 0 analysis.

figure stuff out

this. that's not what nka is on day 2. camn has quite remarkably described what nka on day 2 is.
What conclusions do you hope to reach through your nka? I saw something like "flore looks bad if somethingoranother." Does that still hold? Do you believe that the main metric scum would use for shooting is "who suspects us most"?

This is good content though, I'm not sure whether good theory is towny or scummy yet. I usually play mostly live so good theory is usually towny there but with more time I'm not so sure.

yessssss

unvote
vote: h_a

eh? I guess this is okay.

I'll hold off on the alpaca vote till tomorrow, want to sleep on whether his lack of consideration for our particular circumstances is significant towards his alignment;
While I can understand the thought process behind "I'd like to ally with the assassin!" there's no way I can accept that on the grounds of scumhunting and the assassin being h_a. Because h_a was goddamn useless. So continuing the ally angle is not okay.
Alpaca, did you notice that I linked his entire ISO?

H_A analysis was fine, fmpov given that I think Alpaca is outed this looks pretty bad. The first paragraph feels like bullshit to me and the question at the end feels awkward and forced to me. Like I don't fully understand why townStaeg would say that.

I swear to you, get me to lylo and we have a 100% winrate. (We being town.) I strongly believe that if we follow Camntsuki's list, we will win prior to that though, and Lylo will not be necessary.

This is the driving force behind my vote btw

I swear to you, get me to lylo and we have a 100% winrate. (We being town.) I strongly believe that if we follow Camntsuki's list, we will win prior to that though, and Lylo will not be necessary.

This is the driving force behind my vote btw

That seems a random value to call scummy.
What's your read on Flore?

Really? It stuck out to me.
Didn't remember much of Flore except for the early scumslip shenanigans, iso-check reveals 634 into 681 which feels extremely off. The recent vig-mafia argument with alpaca gives me a headache, but so does everything else related to alpaca, so whatever. Would be willing to switch my vote here; the two aforementioned posts are probably worse than aristo's 991.

Frankly I am unimpressed by both you and Camn "noticing" new top scum reads.
Yes, U think if that was a valid scumtell you would have hung onto it far more than you did - that you forgot/missed a more important scumtell makes me think you're either scum, or that the scumtells are all super weak, so should be assessed as such.

Why, what are you getting out of all this?

The reason why I "noticed" a new top scumread is because nothing about the two posts of flore's I mentioned before was suspicious individually. I hadn't registered that they were really made by the same person as consecutive posts.

All of what?

Here is my issue with this. First off sequentially Staeg accepted Camn's townbloc, which included me. Then people started pushing on Alpaca, and Staeg 'finds' these two posts which is his world seems to confirm me as scum to him, which a). he didn't do originally and b). his point doesn't make any goddamn sense in the first place. So he is opportunistically jumping around to save Alpaca and making up a fake case on me who earlier he accepted as town.

To be fully honest this iso isn't that bad. In general the lack of content is as worrying as whatever I just mentioned, but unlike Alpaca I can see most of the stuff in his iso coming from town. Still this slot should never endgame. It isn't towny enough for me to accept death in order to preserve it by any means though.

[Florestan]

STAEG YOU GET AN AUTO TOWN PASS

FOR LYNCHING KATSUKI

I WILL NOT LET THIS GO TO N1 WITHOUT SCUMKATSUKI FLIP

THEN I CAN BE NKD IN PEACE

Actually I got this exact same feeling from the two posts preceding yours; the jump on Flore is terrible and everyone related to it at this point should be ashamed (although the early part was nois)

vote: camntsuki

Nahdia's amazing, heuristically is questionable af (135??)°

VOTE: alban
post more.

Why him, in particular? Why anyone, actually? Is that ~really~ what you want to be doing right now?

This feels weird to me but I'm not fullly sur ewhy

I woulda been on board with the flores vote until someone said that it can't really be a scumslip, at which point more or less everything flores had done became indicative of stupid, not alignment
which is even more easily seen in the last couple of pages

I guess I like this.

HEY WEVE TALKED A LOT ABOUT A LOT OF THINGS IN THE PAST TWO APGES CERBERUS CARE TO SHARE

The last two pages were noise and nonsense, mainly.

pedit: Also, you're welcome aristo. How have you been? I can't remember the last time we played a game together, i think we have like just one together in the past? Meh. Probably doesn't matter, I don't consciously try to think about meta, so whatever.

I believe it was Inorganic Chemistry. Fun times!
Also, I've been well, you?

I like your Camntsuki townread.
Do you have any other developing reads to share at this time?

Hmm. I've been well enough. Ah, other reads. Not so much? I want to believe I'm right about Flores, and if that's the case, then Nahdia gets lots of town points, but the point fate is making about how pushing flores for that potential slip is really a very simple way for scum to push an easy mislynch is absolutely correct, and that gives me pause. I'm hopeful that she's town...but I have no reason to be certain.

Other than that, the other interactions didn't really sink in. I read it, didn't see a point to most of what people were saying, and it all got filed under null for all of them.

White Light is interesting? For obvious reasons.

Really, I need to see a lot more. I'm impressed that I'm even able to say this much to you.

Are you really playing both the "flores is scum yea" and the "but damn what an easy mislynch" angles?

This is also pretty good, it might be buddying and I've been burned there before this feels okay.

WTF are you guys on.

Do y'all want me to out Maize to prove I know who it is?

My point is that people have already softed that they aren't him and should stop. My loved status is confirmable and will show up in votecounts just TDD have been lazy and haven't done those yet.

Also Fate I asked about that pregame which is why there is that last post to the gamestart.

First off I love staeg and ari right now. I feel like of every one pushing the 'flores slipped even though its confirmed that he didn't" angle is wrong.

The mod made a mistake and didn't include the name of Maize in my PM but I should've known who it is and I know now.

So uh, which is it?

VOTE: Flores

How is this a contradiction?

moreso here as well.

Do we have a townbloc yet? Lets run up Alpaca or Dwlee.

unvote
vote: dwlee

This kinda pings me tbh. He goes surprisingly easily with the town bloc, maybe he just doesn't like Dwlee but he hasn't expressed that at all yet. This feels like Staeg is going super easy with the flow and isn't questioning things or having the paranoia that I want from him. Honestly just this post alone makes me not want to stop his wagon, even though it has 0 analysis.

figure stuff out

this. that's not what nka is on day 2. camn has quite remarkably described what nka on day 2 is.
What conclusions do you hope to reach through your nka? I saw something like "flore looks bad if somethingoranother." Does that still hold? Do you believe that the main metric scum would use for shooting is "who suspects us most"?

This is good content though, I'm not sure whether good theory is towny or scummy yet. I usually play mostly live so good theory is usually towny there but with more time I'm not so sure.

yessssss

unvote
vote: h_a

eh? I guess this is okay.

I'll hold off on the alpaca vote till tomorrow, want to sleep on whether his lack of consideration for our particular circumstances is significant towards his alignment;
While I can understand the thought process behind "I'd like to ally with the assassin!" there's no way I can accept that on the grounds of scumhunting and the assassin being h_a. Because h_a was goddamn useless. So continuing the ally angle is not okay.
Alpaca, did you notice that I linked his entire ISO?

H_A analysis was fine, fmpov given that I think Alpaca is outed this looks pretty bad. The first paragraph feels like bullshit to me and the question at the end feels awkward and forced to me. Like I don't fully understand why townStaeg would say that.

I swear to you, get me to lylo and we have a 100% winrate. (We being town.) I strongly believe that if we follow Camntsuki's list, we will win prior to that though, and Lylo will not be necessary.

This is the driving force behind my vote btw

I swear to you, get me to lylo and we have a 100% winrate. (We being town.) I strongly believe that if we follow Camntsuki's list, we will win prior to that though, and Lylo will not be necessary.

This is the driving force behind my vote btw

That seems a random value to call scummy.
What's your read on Flore?

Really? It stuck out to me.
Didn't remember much of Flore except for the early scumslip shenanigans, iso-check reveals 634 into 681 which feels extremely off. The recent vig-mafia argument with alpaca gives me a headache, but so does everything else related to alpaca, so whatever. Would be willing to switch my vote here; the two aforementioned posts are probably worse than aristo's 991.

Frankly I am unimpressed by both you and Camn "noticing" new top scum reads.
Yes, U think if that was a valid scumtell you would have hung onto it far more than you did - that you forgot/missed a more important scumtell makes me think you're either scum, or that the scumtells are all super weak, so should be assessed as such.

Why, what are you getting out of all this?

The reason why I "noticed" a new top scumread is because nothing about the two posts of flore's I mentioned before was suspicious individually. I hadn't registered that they were really made by the same person as consecutive posts.

All of what?

Here is my issue with this. First off sequentially Staeg accepted Camn's townbloc, which included me. Then people started pushing on Alpaca, and Staeg 'finds' these two posts which is his world seems to confirm me as scum to him, which a). he didn't do originally and b). his point doesn't make any goddamn sense in the first place. So he is opportunistically jumping around to save Alpaca and making up a fake case on me who earlier he accepted as town.

To be fully honest this iso isn't that bad. In general the lack of content is as worrying as whatever I just mentioned, but unlike Alpaca I can see most of the stuff in his iso coming from town. Still this slot should never endgame. It isn't towny enough for me to accept death in order to preserve it by any means though.

[Florestan]

Who tf is Rachel?

[Florestan]

Staeg when were you planning on using your shot?

[Florestan]

I think Staeg should check thor

[Florestan]

ugh I got like 2 hours of sleep last night b/c of allergies, I meant cerb.

Overall I believe that Staeg is a rolecop, though the 1 shot depends on his alignment. I don't really believe his claim since it makes a lot of sense for scum to have a rolecop so limit vigi swing, + at the beginning of the game I setup speced a scum rolecop so someone claiming rolecop doesn't look too great imo.

[Florestan]

what do you think of the 1shot, flore?

slightly scummy because of the whole JOAT thing, but my issue is more the balance aspect rather than the 1 shot unless we are dealing with a scum vig.

+ at the beginning of the game I setup speced a scum rolecop so someone claiming rolecop doesn't look too great imo.

( ° ͜ʖ͡°)

Eve Genoard, Town Triggered Loved
Loved but I lose my loved status when 8 players exit the game.

Did you guys forget that Flores claimed

No. Why? How is that, of all things, relevant?

ugh I got like 2 hours of sleep last night b/c of allergies, I meant cerb.

Why cerb, in particular? That, too, would have been my shot until dwlee's proposal, but I want to hear your reasoning.

Alpaca is still awkward, cause that's the only person who's result could possibly contradict their claim. Also because cerb is scummy.

[Florestan]

slightly scummy because of the whole JOAT thing, but my issue is more the balance aspect rather than the 1 shot unless we are dealing with a scum vig.

don't theme games go under normal guidelines for the most part? Scum vig is non-normal I'm p sure.

no.

[Florestan]

Also, Flores has to die today or tonight, else, if scum, they cannot be lynched tomorrow if we miss scum today and the vig hits town tn.

But if we either NL or lynch scum tomorrow I go back to being lynchable.

[Florestan]

it's a fair cop g'vner

I do want to add you know how I mentioned earlier that publicly loved is actually a negative modifier, yeah I was right. Especially since it is physically impossible for it to occur during lylo. Careful tomorrow though if the vigi shoots because the vigi is going to be forced to shoot Nos either tonight or tomorrow night, so plan ahead and remember that you have to be pretty perfect to win the game hereafter.

I think that I should be confirmed here because there is no way that scum would have a negative modifier in a 10v2v1 setup with a vigi and unless I'm with Staeg (lol) a rolecop, but yes I agree that if you don't trust me than as I mentioned before I could be lying about my role and you should lynch me now.

[Florestan]

super bah, only usable when you die due to mod error.

[Florestan]

I normally wouldn't do this but how is this not insanely townsided?? Even if assasin play it perfectly its 11v2, and if not the game is insane

[Florestan]

All I'm good at is choking in LYLO and snatching defeat from the jaws of victory when I'm town. ^^

Really the issue with you in lylo is that you went basically dead silent - you sorta did it the phase before also. Your Day 1 felt good, you went downhill as a townread of mine pretty fast after that though.

Had to instill at least 1% doubt in thor, and I didn't manage to do that.

To be honest I was actually faking a lot of that - my goal was to have scum be convinced I would lynch you regardless and maybe allow a Dwlee fakeclaim to feel more confident going for the shot on Nos than on you, or to allow Nos to be lazy about how he approached you. You were never 100% ...you were probably a reality of maybe 85% though

Fate lynch and Staeg shot were still atrocious

gg dwlee

Staeg shot was bad - kinda disagree about your lynch, it was fine and offered a lot of info for town scumhunting.

I normally wouldn't do this but how is this not insanely townsided?? Even if assasin play it perfectly its 11v2, and if not the game is insane

I don't find this game any more insane than the normal town sideness that seems to be apparent in games nowadays. I kind of like it because it's increasing my town win ratio from what it used to be, but it looks pretty site wide that games have started to favor town. The answer for this appears to be that mods are being told to expect worse town play...not sure I fully buy that, but I will say it feels like there are more troll players than there were a few years back.

Scum balance shouldn't be in the hands of a 3p though. Scum losing because someone who doesn't share their wincon played poorly is stupid (even though I worked my butt off to fricken out the thing). My issue with the mods isn't that I got lynched early, but that

They posted in game information that directly conflicted what I actually posted

Posting exact PM times isn't usually how that is done, and suddenly I have to make up a whole new level of bullshit.

Also again publicly loved is useless even if it works in lylo, if it doesn't it is basically just a negative modifier.