Mini 1813 - Overwatch Mafia! TOWN WINS

[Genji]

Hello all, I am going to be fairly active in this game.
Considering all thats going on here is RVS I will just throw out some random questions for you guys:

1) How do you think this game was balanced as far as numbers?
2) Do you have a negative utility to the town you want to claim now?
3) Do you believe theres a point to full claiming in this game if we are about to be lynched?

[Genji]

Moving on to more important matters, don't take me to l-1, you'd be lynching me.
Yes, I am hated.

That kills RVS I guess lol

First negative utility noted, is this reflected in VC at all?

[Genji]

So I'm assuming Shadow is Mei.

Is there a specific reason for flavor hunting of roles?

VOTE COUNT

randommidget

(3) - randommidget, doctorpepper, tracer

tracr

(2) - vedith, the engineer

the engineer

(1) - podoboq

shadow_step

(1) - foxbird

foxbird

(1) - shadow_step

with 13 votes in play it takes 7 to lynch.

Day ends in (expired on 2016-07-31 12:00:00)

Okay this answers question abotu knowing if someone is hated, no. We won't know that.
Best to assume that the person is telling the truth then on that.

you'd be lynching me.
Yes, I am hated.

Do you mean character wise?
I actually have little knowledge of the game, so if so this won't mean a lot to me.

So if flavor indicates anything, then Vedith will have trouble faking it.

So Random is either Jester, or trying to fake it I guess.
Would be surprised to see him fake it going by how I've seen him play in general.

Fluff wise, would this be a thing?

I don't see how Random is jester at all by early actions. The game is in early form and theres very little scumhunting to be done. Mostly RVS and flavor quotes so far.

[Genji]

RVS isn't over until I say it is over.

VOTE: Peter

RVS is over.

I actually had a good laugh at this. I like Randomidgets attitude.

[Genji]

Hello all, I am going to be fairly active in this game.
Considering all thats going on here is RVS I will just throw out some random questions for you guys:

1) How do you think this game was balanced as far as numbers?
2) Do you have a negative utility to the town you want to claim now?
3) Do you believe theres a point to full claiming in this game if we are about to be lynched?

10-3
No
Always.

Okay can I ask if you ever played in a vonflare game before? At least enough to mod speculate based of what you know?

To go more indepth with question 3, do you think some roles in this game are more useful or indicate alignment versus say scum roles. As in some roles are naturally have to go to town and wouldn't make sense as scum roles?

[Genji]

UNVOTE:
[/vote]Genji[/vote]

NOPE

RQS

Why not RQS?

motherfucking---

VOTE: Genji

This is a serious vote btw

How so?

[Genji]

@post 57 Genji

1) How do you think this game was balanced as far as numbers?

No clue, fam. Usually it's somewhere around 10 town to 3 scum, so I'd assume that until we have reason to believe otherwise.

2) Do you have a negative utility to the town you want to claim now?

Nope.

3) Do you believe there's a point to full claiming in this game if we are about to be lynched?

Usually there is. Some PRs are better left without claiming and just hoping they don't get lynched.

1) Yes, but I get feeling given role cards this isn't standard. Would you agree with that?
2) Good to know.
3) I tend to agree with this.

[Genji]

Moving on to more important matters, don't take me to l-1, you'd be lynching me.
Yes, I am hated.

That kills RVS I guess lol

First negative utility noted, is this reflected in VC at all?

As far as I know, even votes that aren't counted show up in the VC. I believe the hated claim.
I don't see why you'd fakeclaim it anyway, it's easily disproven. I don't see much to gain from... I dunno, not being taken to L-1 for a little longer? Unless I'm overlooking something.

And now I go sleep.

I don't think its likely faked either from either alignment, since it is as you pointed out easily dis proven, so we should take it as likely if not fact.

Want to answer my questions when you get back? It would be appreciated, ty

[Genji]

So if flavor indicates anything, then Vedith will have trouble faking it.

As a town perspective, yup I won't have knowledge. However, I can easily look up other players and I wouldn't need to fake anything.
As scum, this is completely false. Again, I can look things up, I would have team mates to advise and there is also the possibility of fake characters/roles. Anything outside of that I could play ignorant to.

I believe strongly that this is a town post right now.
Could have easily said as scum, "Yeah I couldn't fake it that well if I was scum".
One town read so far.

[Genji]

1) Yes, but I get feeling given role cards this isn't standard. Would you agree with that?

While my role card is very much not standard, I have no reason to believe that this game has an odd split on town and scum yet. It's possible, but none of my abilities imply anything that would suggest that.

Fair enough, we will likely get better idea of the split after a flip or two.
You have any reads as of yet?

[Genji]

I was really hoping that this game would have a whole lot more posts, maybe even a few pages when I got back. Gotta work with what you got, I guess.

You have any reads as of yet?

You're a townread, but I read high activity as town indicative. That's a fault of mine.
Vedith seems townie from post 72.
Shadowstep is cute....Hated is a weird claim to make early, but it's not necessarily scummy. Just weird.

No scumreads at the moment. I think, for the most part, only scummy trends in play can be scum indicative, so I tend not to have scumreads early.

Yeah, I am not sure how a "hated" normally works into games. As its negative utility would normally go with town depending on its other roles and mechanics. Though it can be all null depending on the moderator. I am going to call it null myself until I see something more substantive. I am worried you are just repeating my thoughts on Vedith, but that might be just paranoia.

Anyone specifically you want to hear more from right now?

1) How do you think this game was balanced as far as numbers?
2) Do you have a negative utility to the town you want to claim now?
3) Do you believe theres a point to full claiming in this game if we are about to be lynched?

10-3 makes sense, maybe 9-4.
No.
It would depend on the circumstances. Probably, but not necessarily.

Interesting on 9-4. Anything specifically makes you think that?
I am guessing your not assuming that the scum team has 4, 9-4 would only take about 2 mislynches before MYLO, which is very unforgiving.

There could be multiple parties, based on the win condition of town, but that again is just more speculation.

Since we don't have a lot of to talk about, I am just going to out, I do have a sort of negative utility.
I can't vote for someone who shares a very specific passive trait that I have. This makes me think that the person(s) who have this are either town or some neutral role. Otherwise it can cause many issues in a LYLO situation where someone is against the town and I cannot vote them.

[Genji]

Actually nevermind

This must be those rare cases that RQS isn't scummy

No point in me answering because its echoing alot of people

Genji is surprisingly town

Why do you think I am town now?
I kind of find it weird you scumread me alone for RQS? I have experienced some scum using it, but I have never thought of it as scum tell.

[Genji]

More activity is needed:
VOTE: inte

[Genji]

Is there a specific reason for flavor hunting of roles?

Do you have a problem with his "flavor hunting"?

(I personally do not think he was flavor hunting, by the way.)

Not in particular, though I think flavor can give hints to roles, so in some scenarios I could be against it. I don't see it being used in a scummy fashion right now.

Oh by the way, no matter what happens in this game today, I am today's lynch.
We can form reads all we want, but we are lynching me today.
Remember that, folks.

Do you have some negative utility that needs to be gone? I am very confused on why you want to be lynched.

[Genji]

Do you have some negative utility that needs to be gone? I am very confused on why you want to be lynched.

No comment, because I want the suspense and surprise.

And also, because I don't want stuff to potentially go horribly wrong, I'm going to hammer my own lynch. I'm pretty sure this won't really matter but just for a safe measure let me hammer myself.

I don't like this attitude, and I am not going to support your lynch just based on "we are doing it"
I don't see even the reason to say this at this junction even if you think it benefits town to do so.

Though if you aren't going to mention why, I guess it gives us plenty to discuss it. I am in no way supporting it right now.

I don't understand specifically why you want to self hammer either.

[Genji]

Sorry, I forgot I was in this game. Reading.

This would be alright, but the next post:

That's my line!

Ok, I have a question for you Tracer, did you create your account before or after receiving your role PM?

Have you read the full game, because this shouldn't be your main concern. Even so, you can tell Tracer did not make the account before receiving role pm because you can look at their posting history.

What does this matter anyway? I doubt mod would give a player role based on their name.

^Same question @Genji.

No.

[Genji]

I am going to bring back this for discussion purposes:

Since we don't have a lot of to talk about, I am just going to out, I do have a sort of negative utility.
I can't vote for someone who shares a very specific passive trait that I have. This makes me think that the person(s) who have this are either town or some neutral role. Otherwise it can cause many issues in a LYLO situation where someone is against the town and I cannot vote them.

[Genji]

Actually nevermind

This must be those rare cases that RQS isn't scummy

No point in me answering because its echoing alot of people

Genji is surprisingly town

Why do you think I am town now?
I kind of find it weird you scumread me alone for RQS? I have experienced some scum using it, but I have never thought of it as scum tell.

RQS is scummy as fuck really

Its an easy way of saying "Hey guys I'm doing stuff" and gets instantly townread

Its like saying tobjourn deserves play of the game (He totally does )

I haven't seen RQS be used to really get townread. It usually gets players scumread or nulled, because in my experience players find it more annoying than RVS. This is kind of besides the point, "Hey guys I'm doing stuff" is usually something scum want to be seen doing in later stages, not the early stages. Most players are usually very disengaged from games in the beginning. I find it is because their is so little to actually talk about.

[Genji]

Yeah, not sure on the paranoid, butdefinitely the scum trying to look busy part

I don't think that question had any point, maybe pointless curiosity? Or maybe flavor hunting as well. Its an easy check able fact that tracer signed before getting a role.

[Genji]

Interesting. I have a few questions. Are you willing to divulge more info?

Possibly. I am unsure of how much I want to say at this time.

[Genji]

Numbers mine.

1. And what should I be concerned about?
2. Tracer has posts in only one game: this one.
3. Beside the point, I asked if you and Tracer created your accounts after receiving your role pm's.
4. It matters whether Tracer/Genji the players are claiming Tracer/Genji the roles.

-----------------------

Tracer is 100% town as per her claim.
Genji and shadow-step's claim are NAI.


Genji's setup questions are scummy because it created 5 pages of worthless noise about people's irrelevant opinions on such and such. Mafia Theory talk belong in another forum. I'm face palming because the lot of you who responded can't all be scum.

Genji: justify each of your 3 questions and explain why they can benefit town.

1) My worries right now are people who share my passive trait, tracer claim of needing to get lynched, and possibly other negative traits that might effect the game. So I think those are more important to be worried about.
2) She posted a sign in sign ups before the game ever started. Unless mod sent her a role card before the game thread was even up, I think its safe to assume she didn't get a rolecard until after she already had the account.
3) I mentioned how this isn't possible for Tracer, and I know I didn't.
4) Why does this specifically matter?

How is Tracer claim make her town?

[Genji]

Genji's setup questions are scummy because it created 5 pages of worthless noise about people's irrelevant opinions on such and such. Mafia Theory talk belong in another forum. I'm face palming because the lot of you who responded can't all be scum.

Genji: justify each of your 3 questions and explain why they can benefit town.

Hmmm so my questions are worthless because its theory talk.
And your question about accounts is a theory too...just on a rolecard-account theory. I don't see your point here.

Mafia Theory can give you a lot of understanding of how a player perceives the games, its not 100% alignment indicative, but some of it can be. I don't agree that my questions were all theory talk, but quite a bit was trying to figure out how this setup might be organized and what players personally thought of it.

Now can you tell me, why does knowing whether or not me and Tracer have the roles respective to our names helps the town?
This is the information you are explicitly hunting for. I am curious on why though.

[Genji]

Random, you had questions for me?

@Tracer thoughts on spring?

[Genji]

Because my role is Tracer.

If this is a game where players think discussing mafia theory, setup guessing and role fishing for 5 pages is good, and think me crumbing a role and questioning potentially manipulative alts is anywhere near "mafia theory", then I'm among I don't have patience for.

So, I'll just leave.

Sorry mod. Replacement please.

1) If you have other things you wish to discuss, you are free to do so. Yelling about mafia theory isn't going to make us stop talking about it.
2) You are literally role fishing by asking for what players are claiming. This is hypocrisy.
3) What are you talking about manipulative alts?

I don't understand how your patience has run so thin when we have had so little dialogue to begin with.

I don't think any of my questions are going to be answered, but hopefully your replacement is a little less obtuse.

[Genji]

Random, you had questions for me?

@Tracer thoughts on spring?

Don't answer these if you don't want to.
What is your role?
Any more info on the neg utility?
Who is the other role/player?

1) Not going to answer that.
2) Yes.
3) I believe it is someone containing the flavor of "Zenyatta" or "Basion" with possible other people taking this also if flavor doesn't help figuring out roles.

It could easily be a fluff mechanic and neither these characters have it (Since my passive trait doesn't specify a character(s) having it), or one of them has it, or both. My thoughts are if someone has this like myself, then they are more likely town from a mechanic standpoint, but I wouldn't say it confirms them town in anyway.

[Genji]

Hi guys

Hello

Uhm I havent been able to keep up because of work and playing actual overwatch, can someone fill me in?

There isn't many pages, you could read them?

[Genji]

Fresh blood in a game is good. Hopefully they will be more active too.
I will go over what I have missed since last I posted, but I don't think theres much there.

[Genji]

VOTE: DoctorPepper

Any specific reason? The only noticable thing about this slot is they are behind and wanted us to give them a catchup. I have that down as lazy.
You have any specific thoughts on the game state so far?

[Genji]

Couldn't anyone be lazy though? I really don't consider that a specific scum tell only.
How do you see demoralized in his posts? I didn't read that from it.

[Genji]

So Random is either Jester, or trying to fake it I guess.
Would be surprised to see him fake it going by how I've seen him play in general.

Fluff wise, would this be a thing?

Calling a scumbuddy "jester" on page 2, maybe?

I don't think so. Vedith posts seem very genuine from my own analysis.

[Genji]

VOTE: DoctorPepper

I don't like this sheeping.

Nah lets not do that

VOTE: inte

Kind of like this.

have you played with doctorpepper before?

This seems to imply you have. Is his actions alignment indicative of being scum for you? Assuming you have played with him before.

[Genji]

@Foxbird I kind of would like you to go into more of your reasoning Engineer the way you do, I am kind of leaning town that on myself.
@wake I try not to read wagn speed as anything, because normally it is nothing. Do you think the speed makes them likely town?

[Genji]

Going to be gone for next few days, ill return on the 25th.

[Genji]

Mechanically we have to lynch wake today.

@Mod if scum lynched a person who sides with scum if killed will that person become scum aligned?

[Genji]

Knowing that I am Town, I don't understand how Tracer is still alive.

That's not how it works.

[Genji]

Mechanically we have to lynch wake today.

@Mod if scum lynched a person who sides with scum if killed will that person become scum aligned?

Please explain this.

Scum would want to lynch tracer if it makes them scum aligned. Please explain again why you didn't let tracer hammer?

[Genji]

Knowing that I am Town, I don't understand how Tracer is still alive.

That's not how it works.

From my position it certainly is Genji.

Do tell. I would like to hear this from your pov.

[Genji]

Tracer said she feared being NK'd by Scum, but I'm Town; lynching isn't the same as being NK'd.

We will let mod decide the distinction

[Genji]

Mechanically we have to lynch wake today.

@Mod if scum lynched a person who sides with scum if killed will that person become scum aligned?

Please explain this.

Scum would want to lynch tracer if it makes them scum aligned. Please explain again why you didn't let tracer hammer?

I think Tracer is lying, because my role PM is Town.

You think tracer is or was scum?

[Genji]

Mechanically we have to lynch wake today.

@Mod if scum lynched a person who sides with scum if killed will that person become scum aligned?

Please explain this.

Scum would want to lynch tracer if it makes them scum aligned. Please explain again why you didn't let tracer hammer?

I think Tracer is lying, because my role PM is Town.

This is a non explanation, which makes me question you further on your motivations.

[Genji]

Why would she fear of being turned if she wasn't neutral or town aligned to begin with? Can you explain why scum would do this sort of action, which is highly unorthordox so that they could hammer self?

Do you still think tracer is lying about alignment?

[Genji]

I need Tracer to come in and explain herself, because she shouldn't be alive right now and she certainly didn't mention anything about not being able to die from a lynch.

She mentioned killing attempts converting her, by her reasoning we should lynch her again to COnFIRM your alignment, do you disagree?

[Genji]

This is what I am getting at why didn't you at least let tracer have a chance at self hammer, you didn't at all.
If tracer avoided it I would understand more but you just took it. I am trying to understand your actions more.

[Genji]

Tracer and Wake are both town.
So let's move on.

Can you explain this in more detail I can't tell wakes motivations right now.
I think tracers are clear.

[Genji]

Tracer thoughts on all of this?

[Genji]

Vedith, if you can't explain it I am at s loss of words I don't know how to take all this information and I can't just take your words for fact.

[Genji]

I am lost wasn't dgb replacing the person claiming to be Tracer character?

[Genji]

Vedith, if you can't explain it I am at s loss of words I don't know how to take all this information and I can't just take your words for fact.

It's obvious that both are town. If you don't know why then I question your align.

Okay can you go any deeper than that, you are being so subtle for reeds it makes me question your thought process, why do you think that both wake and racer alignment are obvious?

[Genji]

Wake you realize if tracer is telling the truth and flips town you are eating s night kill? I am hesitant on this?

[Genji]

This is honestly difficult for me right now. I am going to need some alcohol to analyze this all.
Wake what's your reads at?

[Genji]

None of you are making any sense.

[Genji]

I'm calling tracer town.
Why would you vote tracer over me? In this scenario Tracer can only be scum if I am, right?

You realize that tracer and wake alignment are dependent on each other, right?

[Genji]

None of you are making any sense.

Then maybe you should start by trusting me.

Lynching tracer again is the best mechanical lead, but I would like to be a better player without using mechanics, which I use too much.

[Genji]

Lynching tracer again is the best mechanical lead, but I would like to be a better player without using mechanics, which I use too much.

...meaning what?

Meaning I want to lynch the person I have scum read on over a mechanical lynch.

[Genji]

I'm not going to bother explaining this again after this because I think I was very clear on what my thing does.

The whole point of lynching me Day 1 was to burn off my 1-shot deathproof, which had the "death by scum = traitor" mechanic with it. I wanted to hammer myself JUST IN CASE scum hammering counts as scum killing me. Now that I was lynched (meaning, I reached the condition of dying), my deathproof is gone (which was used automatically to save myself) and now I'm just a normal gal without a deathproof. Capiche?

What exactly does any of that have to do with your risk of conversion being deleted?

This is a good question does your death proof work for lynched or also with night kills?

[Genji]

Lynching tracer again is the best mechanical lead, but I would like to be a better player without using mechanics, which I use too much.

...meaning what?

Meaning I want to lynch the person I have scum read on over a mechanical lynch.

Meaning you now have reservations about lynching Tracer.

My read on tracer was "want to be lynched on day one and alignment delendant on kill"
It's a very odd read. I need my question answered before I consider voting.

[Genji]

See, I'm beginning to think Scum did convert her, and am paying close attention to whoever 'suddenly' wants to keep her alive now: you can understand I'm sure.

I can see this.

[Genji]

Tracer did you ask mod what happens if scum hammered you?

[Genji]

I apologize for my lack of activity the last few days. Been out of it with various in real life stuff. I won't bring that into the game.
Will get to some stuff.

Right now, I don't consider a lynch on Wake or Tracer a good idea. When I posted yesterday I thought Wakes reaction under scrutiny was rather relaxed townie. While I expected a scum to overexplain their actions, he simply went about it in a way that was he didn't need to explain it, which while definitely not the most pro town movie, it was townie.

I want to pressure inte slot more right now.

[Genji]

>>> Tracer wanted to be hammered.
>>> Tracer was hammered by Town.
>>> Someone calls hammer a bad move?

You really should have let Tracer self hammer.

[Genji]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Doctor Pepper
If this flips scum then there was scum on the Tracer counterwagon

Can you go into the reasoning beyond this thought?

[Genji]

I honestly think anyone in the list is capable of just getting DGB killed D1

Why?

Wake please

just look at the playerlist and imagine that all the alts, like me, have alot of experience in MS.

If anything foxbird is the only new player

I am not liking this explanation of the DGB kill, but I still can't wrap my head around it completely with considering the scenarios, it could be from someone who knew them, but I don't consider that player impressive in anyway, beyond being fairly active and giving their own thoughts. Perhaps thought was unlikely mislynch? The speculation so far on that kill hasn't given me any solid suspects.

I don't know who would have been a great kill on the previous night though, so maybe it was just not any good targets?

[Genji]

I have to agree with foxbird on this one, I am not quite understanding why doctor being a counterwagon to a mechanical lynch proves in anyway anything since not being on it or being on it didn't matter since it was being pushed not for reads based reasons.

[Genji]

I disagree, since the Tracer lynch was for mechanical reasons rather than scumminess. I got the feeling that it was clear relatively early that she'd be the lynch. I mean, she insisted on it.

But then explain why they would vote for their scum buddy instead?

Who was? I may not be correctly understanding the train of thought here.

The assumption that Doctor is scum regardless and that scum was also busisng perhaps?
Not following this reasoning either.

[Genji]

Town

• Wake88
  
• podoboq
  
• Vedith
  
• Tracer
  
• Peter Elrich Pines
  
• The Engineer
  
• Shadow_Step
  
• Foxbird

Leftovers

• genji
  
• inte
  
• DoctorPepper
  
• randomidget

I am kind of curious on why random is on left over and why the rest are being townread. I can understand t some degree on inte and doctorpepper being not read that well. I am also unsure of why Shadow_Step is a townread.

Lately I also have doubts on my earlier read of podoboq.

[Genji]

I am also unsure of why Shadow_Step is a townread.

I went over ISO more found the answer to this question, so disregard it.

Anyways, it is notable that Shadow_Step pressence has been lacking in this game, but I believe he is active elsewhere. That means a few things of either 1) He doesn't feel any pressure so no need to comment on the game. or 2) He is not invested in this game.
Both possibilities, but I believe if we applied some pressure, of course being aware that L-1 might be hammered.

VOTE: Shadow_Step

[Genji]

I have some more thoughts as of lately on the whole "Shadow_Step is hated".
This could be that he is hated, but also has the same utility ability that I share where my vote doesn't count towards his lynch.

In this scenario that means the hated effect is effectively nullified. Meaning hated = Town is not longer likely possibility in a setup design approach.
The moderator could make a scum hated but also make it so one townie can't vote for that player, thus allowing it to be just easy neg utility to gain some credit.

Nobody else claimed to have a similar passive trait that I did. I don't think its fluff either.

[Genji]

I don't know why I didn't ask this before.

@Mod Say I am voting a person when I have a trait that makes it so my vote will not count towards their lynch, will my vote still show up on your VC as counting, even though it doesn't count?

[Genji]

DGB doesn't play as much, i think she normally plays Large games. But she is very famous in the community. Her join date is also listed as 2005. So newer players might think that is indicative. Furthermore, her slot gave literally no info as she wasnt able to post as much. Which is why NKA on DGB doesnt work because there isnt any info gained from the NK and thats exactly what scum wanted.

I really don't like this, for one you don't explain what her being famous has to do with anything. This to mean that anyone would kill her because she is widely known?

The assumption that scum killed her for the reason of notoriety that would not be easily analyzed troubles me too.

I am going to recheck her ISO to see if theres anything I might be missing.

[Genji]

I'm sure I haven't posted in any other game today(according to my time zone), so what the hell are you talking about?

I meant it in the general sense that your activity and efforts have not been here from my thoughts. I looked at your ISO and its devoid of a lot of scumhunting, and now you only come on here to defend your actions.

Its not good, what your thoughts on reads?

[Genji]

If I were Scum and I knew of how good she apparently is at the game of course I would take the shot.

Lucky for all of you I'm Town.

I can understand DP's concern on this.

I wouldn't, she wasn't massively townread, she didn't seem good at convincing town to join her on wagons, and the only thing left would be her reads which I have no idea how accurate are.

She read Randommidget and Doctor, also Tracer as scum.

I don't personally know who would be a better kill, as both Tracer and Wake assuming they are town can be pushed for the hammer+lynchproof. So that makes it a possible frame on Doctor as well?

hmmmm

[Genji]

VOTE: Randomidget

I want to see where this goes.

[Genji]

I wonder if Genji is keen on revealing who he is, so we can check his meta.

I don't think you will know me that well even if I gave you my main account. Regardless, I don't play like this on my main so I believe the meta dive would be fruitless endeavor.

[Genji]

It would probably annoy me more than hurt me.

[Genji]

Well maybe I will feel like discussing that later, perhaps I will slip. Unlikely as that is.

Now, whats your thoughts on randomidget?

[Genji]

I am here, unfortunately at this time there isn't much to talk about.

[Genji]

I am not comfortable with this wagon as is, but I will do a proper ISO of Vedith soon.
My initial read of them on day 1 was town of a certain post.

[Genji]

So if flavor indicates anything, then Vedith will have trouble faking it.

As a town perspective, yup I won't have knowledge. However, I can easily look up other players and I wouldn't need to fake anything.
As scum, this is completely false. Again, I can look things up, I would have team mates to advise and there is also the possibility of fake characters/roles. Anything outside of that I could play ignorant to.

This gave me an early townread from him. The openness to explain what he could do as scum was pretty transparent on how he would operate under a scum mindset.

[Genji]

As of this point, if I must name 3 players to be scum, They are randomidget, serrapaladin, and DoctorPepper, with Genji being forced into my list of townreads.
I really think there are only two mafias in this game, though. But then, guessing from my role, the game is already bizarre.

Why serrapaladin?
Why does everyone magically have a scumread on this player?

I need to check him and who he replaced. I believe it was Inte who was a empty slot?
I believe we should pressure randomidget more today. Doctorpepper might be able to get sorted through other means, and serrapaladin looks to be trying to scumhunting.

[Genji]

Gotta lxve the fuckig indepth reasons people are giving for scumreading me.. How many are there again? Oh that's right 0.

Why do you care if people are scumreading you? If you are town, you should be more concerned about lynching townreads than be worried about people scumreading you.

This is meaningless. Tell us who is scum if you are town. This is just being upset over being scumread.

[Genji]

Why is DP not lynched yet though

VOTE: The Engineer

The only content im seeing from this slot is 'Lynch DP' without anything else. Lets do this.

VOTE: DoctorPepper
Yeah, no. There is more content in Engineer than that, unless you completely ignore day 1.
I was against this lynch, but now I am fine with it. He is in my possible scum list, I thought he might have been just a low hanging fruit possibility, but we need this for the town health.

[Genji]

VOTE COUNT

DoctorPepper

(5) - Turret, the engineer, randommidget, Genji, Tracer

Vedith

(2) - wake88, foxbird

randommidget

(1) - podoboq

peter elric pines

(1) - shadow_step

Serrapaladin

(1) - vedith

The Engineer

(1) - doctorpepper

Not voting: peter elric pines, serrapaladin

with 12 players it takes 7 to lynch.

prodding peter elric pines.

Two more votes on DoctorPepper.
I really don't believe that DoctorPepper is making any efforts to game solve and he needs to be out of this game before a LYLO/MYLO situation if he is town.

I don't believe he is town though.

[Genji]

So, I am honestly a bit confused on flavor and how its tied to abilities.
For one DP is claiming to be a Omnic but also claiming the flavor character of Zarya.
Which has nothing flavor wise to do with the Omnic.

For the record, I have the Omnic trait, which means I can't lynch Omnic. My characters flavor matches though however.
I am starting to suspect that DP is lying though.

But my understanding of this mechanic would mean that DP shouldn't be scum....

[Genji]

RUSH B CYKA BLYAT.

Hi I'm Zarya. This was my crumb, i spoke in Russian. I am a 1 shot Jailkeeper (shot hasnt been used btw) and a omnic double voter. Which is why I keep switching votes as I was hunting for omnics.

My wagon is really bad because im such an easy target. Face it, my lynch gives very little info. I am low hanging fruit. I am a very easy target for saying "scummy things" despite people already washing their hands off my lynch.

Im inactive as I dont play Mini games and the only reason i joined is because I like the theme. Its also worth noting I play more invested as scum than town but take that as you wish. But if you want to lynch me, consider lynching this first

VOTE: Genji

Understand that while I havent been the towniest player, Genji is already trying to wash his hands off my lynch, along with Shadow. I think Genji is scum. He's already preparing for my town flip.

Wait do you have the omnic trait or can you just double vote people who are Ominc?
These are different, and I wonder why you believe hunting for Omnics is useful for you.

[Genji]

Turret is someone's ability. We're not sure which side - could be both scum or town, DP was the biggest wagon D1 (we lynched someone else because of mechanical reasons). See it as some kinda doublevoter or something that can't be changed, I guess?

I believe the longer that goes unchecked its more likely a scum ability, since the times that a hidden vote was placed in a game and kept there it was done by scum mechanics who didn't claim it.

[Genji]

DP didn't claim to be an omnic?

He claimed to be Omnic double voter.

[Genji]

What's an omnic?

Omnics are artificially intelligent robots produced by omniums

[Genji]

From a mechanical standpoint that would nullify the omnic trait of not being able to vote each other.
So that means whoever did share my trait could be scum if DP is town.
hmmmm

I really don't think of DP as town by play so far.

[Genji]

Turret is someone's ability. We're not sure which side - could be both scum or town, DP was the biggest wagon D1 (we lynched someone else because of mechanical reasons). See it as some kinda doublevoter or something that can't be changed, I guess?

Seriously, every time someone says that the double voter ability is scum. It pinges my scumdar, a scum double voter, and a hated player(me), do you understand how broken that is?

If the player can't move around the first vote on will, as in it starts at beginning of the day, it isn't as powerful as you may think.

[Genji]

V/LA this weekend.

[Genji]

the votecount is still exactly the same

VOTE COUNT

DoctorPepper

(4) - Turret, the engineer, Genji, Vedith

Tracer

(2) - Xkfyu, randommidget

Vedith

(2) - wake88, foxbird

randommidget

(1) - podoboq

Foxbird

(1) - shadow_step

Genji

(1) - doctorpepper


Not voting: serrapaladin, Tracer

with 12 players it takes 7 to lynch.

I didn't know we actually had deadlines for days since I saw no mention of it in the original post I believe and not in the VCs either.

[Genji]

13) If there is no one above that level of votes at deadline, the day will end in a no lynch
14) Day phases will last a maximum of two weeks, night phases will last a minimum of 48 hours.

I somehow missed this.
I don't see why it couldn't have been included in the vote counts, but I digress.

Ill start analyzing more, but there wasn't too much added content since I have been away.
My setup spec alone has given me inconclusive thoughts on multiple players.

I orginally believed that Foxbird was cleared, but DP role suggest that if he is town it makes more sense for Foxbird to be scum and vice versa.

I don't have many strong scum reads at the moment so finding my place is hard.
I don't suggest a tracer or a wake lynch at the moment.

[Genji]

Sure.

VOTE: Shadow

Hows that.

I'd also want an Engineer lynch

Why does it seem like you want to lynch anyone and everyone but yourself?
You reek of just pure survivalism.

Can you explain your scumreads more than just "They are voting me?"

[Genji]

It's completely opportunistic and wants to save random/ dp for future mislynches.

I want to lynch random now, but nobody else seems to be listening. If you're willing to vote obvscum with me, then let's fucking do it, but I saw you (apparently double-voting) on obvtown, so yeah, wasn't holding my breath any longer.

We have two days left. You've been a moderate scum read for a while now. I'm settling for you, because it looks like the alternative is lynching DoctorPepper, who is town.

I would lynch random.
VOTE: Randomidget

I still think doctorpepper is likely scum though.
I don't know where this shadow wagon is coming from but it seems like last minute scramble to counter a scum wagon.

[Genji]

I don't understand the town reads off Doctor Pepper.
Right now role spec, he is at a null.
Activity and attempts to game solve he isn't doing much in terms of actually sorting out what people are thinking and finding out motivations. He views everyone as a enemy, while this can be how some town act. Its very lazy and anti town behavior.

I haven't seen him do much besides get defensive to his situation and calling anyone pressuring him scum.
I feel my reasoning for scumreading him is confirmation biased a bit, but the appeals to not lynching him based on just him "not being active and not doing much" is him realizing how bad he has been playing and trying to play the low hanging fruit card on himself.

I don't see any strong reason anyone can town read him.

[Genji]

I agree with almost everything here except the highlighted sentence. Role/setup spec implies to me that DoctorPepper is negative town utility, as it makes us more likely to kill omnics, and I townread both of the omnic claims. I don't think the ability would be given to scum, because that just makes Zarya a double-voter in the end game in that case, which is nuts for scum if it doesn't come with some huge downside (like you have to plant the vote before the day starts).

Also, randomidget wants to lynch DoctorPepper, and randomidget is scum, so.....

I thought about this circumstances too of it being a negative utility, but I also considered if Fox is scum than its essentially nullifying the omnic other negative utility. Since I can't lynch Fox, DP essentially makes up for the fact I can't do it.

However it could also be like you said, a neg town utility. And me and Fox can be kind of quasi masons in the sense we can't lynch each other.

I went around it and got to null.

[Genji]

Guys, "only scum have an incentive to survive", " OMGUS", "Low activity", " Only defending yourself" are honestly outdated scum tactics in MS meta. If you've been on the site for longer than the two newbie games to become a qualified SE, you would know that these are not bonafide indicators of scumminess. The longer you play here, the more you realize these are Non Alignment indicatives. This is because town have reason to do this as well. OMGUS for crappy voting. Defensiveness because you know this lynch is a mistake. Survivalism because you are well aware that your death is a mislynch. Low activity because people have lives outside the game.

The real reasons to scum read are fabricating reasons to make someone look scummy, misreps and discredits, and faking activity (posting non insightful posts) just to seem active. These are all traits found on people on my wagon and youre wondering why Im only focused on them?

Can you point to more games as where what is "true scumminess" is? I feel like your defending your style and not truly scum hunting.

[Genji]

So I gave an action to mod, told me i wasn't specific so they didn't keep track of it.
Really useful.

I am at a loss for this game at this point.

[Genji]

Huh.

Zenyatta.

[Genji]

Going with this then:
VOTE: Foxbird

I don't believe serra is a scum day vig, and if he were a neutral one seems even less likely to occur in a game like this.

[Genji]

We have first substantial bit if info right now.
We should be pushing this more, but everyone is too inactive or avoiding the thread.

[Genji]

Oh actually, vedith did you say fox is guaranteed opposite align to you? If so thats p obvious.

Sadly it's not guaranteed, but the way it's written doesn't suggest town. I watched a video on it when I received my role and it had Hanzo and Genji fighting, so if going by fluff I assume it's different aligns there?
There's more to my role as well, but I don't feel the need to say right now.

Thats odd....

[Genji]

Welp, apparently everyone flavor-claimed.

Widowmaker fits as a scum flavor, and Roadhog fits as a 3p flavor.
I'm 99.99% sure that scum has a fakeclaim, and I believe we are looking for Reaper right now.

So who would fit along with Widowmaker as scum flavor?

[Genji]

Apologies, the only one left that makes sense then as scum would be Engineer.
I don't think Wake is possible given day 1s events.

VOTE: Engineer

My role has two abilities along with the passive I mentioned in the early game.
So basically since we don't have full fips. I am goiong to presume that Foxbirds role and DrPepper were either counterparts, or Foxbird was just lying so I would townread them. Since I did mention I would townread them for having that utility.

Having DrPepper being able to double vote me makes it unlikely he is scum because the endgame scenario with me and him in it means he auto wins. From a setup standpoint that means he is clear, also other things such as counter wagon to Foxbird.

Back to abilities
I have two, Orb of Harmony and Orb of Discord.
Basically orb of harmony will refund shots that are expended on a night they are used if I target the player on that night.
Discord basically is a reverse jailkeeper. The player can still act but cannot be protected from kills. So basically makes them a macho player.


Night 1 I used Harmony on Engineer and Discord on Wake
Night 2 I wanted to use a night action on Wake but didn't specify the target so no action was recorded.
I didn't perform or submit an action on Night 3

Thats all I have for you.

[Genji]

Then Foxbird simply was lying.
So you suppose that Drpepper has a role/ability that can only work on scum to double vote them?

With his vote I am theoretically at L-1 btw, I don't believe its reflecting in the vc?

I will double check that however generally speaking, double votes do not count in LYLO/MYLO

[Genji]

DrPepper is confirmed town.

I wasn't saying he was scum.

I am saying, does it make sense to give a town a double vote to a player where the double vote can ONLY work on scum?

In a LYLO situation, that would be too op for balance purposes.

[Genji]

Wouldn't surprise me, as balancing.

The way I see it, either your "not voting omnics" thing is red herring, or you're lying. I think you should try self-hammering so we at least confirm your ability is real.

How could I be lying?
I mentioned this way before DrPepper even talked about his mechanic.

So either we are both lying (which doesn't make sense) or at least some kind of mechanic involving omnics is a thing.

[Genji]

My role pm specifically mentions it not working "Other" omnics, implying that I can still self vote.
Ill ask mod for clarification on that.

[Genji]

Yeah I'm unsure about the omnics thing, but you said your passive is "can't vote omnics", and there aren't any other omnics, yet you don't seem super bothered by that.

I figure its just a negative utility to the town at this point.
Foxbird is confirmed to have lied about being Omnic by me being a vote on them, and the fact their flavor character didn't make sense as an Omnic to begin with. Which I should have picked up on more, but I ignored it thinking flavor might not solve the game.

[Genji]

Negative utility in what sense? There apparently are no other omnics. And now you're saying it doesn't even prevent you from voting yourself.

DrPepper said he double votes Omnics.

[Genji]

I already claimed im zarya.

Im willing to go fox or genji

I was looking for omnics without considering that the VC may not represent it

He gave a reason for a vote, i pressured him, he changed the reason. That is scummy.

That's my line!

Ok, I have a question for you Tracer, did you create your account before or after receiving your role PM?

This post is so bad, it's paranoid scum trying to look busy.

VOTE: Spring

I'm gonna go off this. Why would this be a legitimate reason to vote for anyone.

VOTE: Shadow

Yes but what shadow did is exactly that, fake scum hunting.

No, random. He didn't. This is the same thing said in two different ways.
213: "That is not a legitimate reason to vote for anyone."
217: "Shadow is fake scum hunting, by coming up with illegitimate reasons to vote for someone."

It's the same damn thing.

FUCKING THANK YOU. Someone gets it. Its bugging me why people are scum reading me for this when its basically the same thing.

Im going rm if I confirm Genji is omnic and I have reason to lay off Genji.

Oh and Genji, to answer you regarding me voting omnics. Do all omnics know each other. Are you neighbors or masons. Do you have day talk.

There has to be logic in me.having the doublevote. Normall, in a neighborhood there is 1 scum, otherwise they would just be masons. And why would I be given an ability to doublevote if all my targets are potentially town.

Basically im sure theres at least 1 scum with the omnics

So, I am honestly a bit confused on flavor and how its tied to abilities.
For one DP is claiming to be a Omnic but also claiming the flavor character of Zarya.
Which has nothing flavor wise to do with the Omnic.

For the record, I have the Omnic trait, which means I can't lynch Omnic. My characters flavor matches though however.
I am starting to suspect that DP is lying though.

But my understanding of this mechanic would mean that DP shouldn't be scum....

Never claimed to be an omnic. I claim to be able to double vote omnics.

[Genji]

So basically,
DP had a town double vote that can only work on town.
My vote not being able to vote omnics was essentially fluff that doesn't do anything, unless Engineer is Omnic (unlikely)