Mini 1851 : Order of the Stick Mafia - Epilogue

[SirCakez]

I'm late rip

VOTE: wisdom

[SirCakez]

It has backing

[SirCakez]

This is an awfully strange 180:

Whats strange about it? The reason im townreading Infinity happened after those initial posts and actually have to do with how Infinity handled those posts.

I dont like this.

I don't like this immediate discrediting, the "I don't like this" (I'm assuming it means he was saying Wraith's push on him was scummy) without a vote implies that he wants to OMGUS but scared of being called out on it. Which is of course a bad sign.

I'll explain the backing of my initial vote when I get home because it has a bunch of quotes to back it.

[SirCakez]

I see a bunch of new pages, but I'm going to go over my Wisdom vote reasoning b4 reading up

[SirCakez]

Ok so what I disliked about Wisdom is everything he's doing (at least up until my vote) feels like he's trying to blend in

VOTE: nacho

VOTE: nacho

There's this right off the bat, which I wouldn't have noted until I saw all the other "blending in" moments

I'll agree with the PV thing as well.

Here's another case of him agreeing with the crowd

I will also agree with the townreads on Infinity.

I think that him continuing to nitpick things and defend that way of playing despite people clearly finding it odd and worth questioning shows lack of scum motivation.

And here he 180s on Infinity, which I wouldn't find scummy in itself, but it's yet another situation where he's just following the general opinion

I also disliked how he threw out the infinity scumread early on but never actually voted the wagon

infinity you're trying too hard and me no like

says infinity who tried to question a joke

With these being two prime examples of clearly showing a scumread on infinity, yet leaving his vote on his RVS target. Looked like scum wanting to get a wagon going, but then when it didn't pull together backing off to fit in with the general opinion.

Now I'll read up

[SirCakez]

Spoiler:

Do you know me to be scared to push a scumread?

No, that's why I'm concerned

i really dislike kagami's interaction with infinity

Here's a spoiler on my fill in the blanks, infinity:

One likely reason for town-farside's vote is that she agrees with wisdom. The other reasons are uninteresting and generally in line with the "not wanting to take nacho to L-2" thought, though I don't think she'd vote you in particular if that were the case.

For scum-farside, the reason is once again Wisdom's earlier statement. She'd feel that there's a real possibility the wagon has legs and be happy to be on early, especially when there's not a real need to justify it. I find your reasoning to be fairly shallow and unlikely. I see no attempt to "appear to be doing something."

this is kind of a cringe post
the probing stopped being about understanding infinity's thought process, and became about kagami flexing town muscles. also theres a coaching tone to this post that really rubs me the wrong way, kagami later says that she's not reding infinity one way or the other, and i feel if that really were true, the interaction wouldnt have come to its conclusion in the form of the post above. also i just dont like that kagami is using her own interpretation of farsides motivations as a benchmark to compare infinity's against, rather than read infinity's motivations for what they are

speaking of cringe posting.........................

I will also agree with the townreads on Infinity.

I think that him continuing to nitpick things and defend that way of playing despite people clearly finding it odd and worth questioning shows lack of scum motivation.

^this post gets a medal^
i mean whoa really?
adjust his playing style when the entire episode spanned like a couple of posts?

Kraska gets a townread for these posts (although I disagree re:kagami scum)

I think scum-wisdom would have pursued you more after the tryhard push.

I highly disagree.

wraith and cakez?

There's no way town you would think that both people voting you are scum together.

Cakez, are you feeling okay?

100%

Infinity's "fluff" push on Wisdom is crap (Wisdom is scum for other reasons), but I think it's so bad it has to be town.

P-edit:

With these being two prime examples of clearly showing a scumread on infinity, yet leaving his vote on his RVS target. Looked like scum wanting to get a wagon going, but then when it didn't pull together backing off to fit in with the general opinion.

and i'll ask again

Do you know me for someone who hesitates to get wagons on people when I'm scum?

Do you know me for someone who generally cares about the general opinion as scum?

Here's a better question
Do you hesitate to get wagons on people and care about the general opinion as town?

With these being two prime examples of clearly showing a scumread on infinity, yet leaving his vote on his RVS target. Looked like scum wanting to get a wagon going, but then when it didn't pull together backing off to fit in with the general opinion.

were you bothered by the other two people on my wagon who also weren't scumreading me and yet were still voting me?

No, because they weren't Wisdom. Wisdom is generally very aggressive with his vote.

[SirCakez]

Also

cakes' case is very shallow

yep

It was the 6th page when I made the vote. Were you expecting a large case? His ISO was like 10 posts at that point.

[SirCakez]

Here's a better question
Do you hesitate to get wagons on people and care about the general opinion as town?

no.
so we basically agree I am being different here.
does different mean scum?

In this playerlist, I think yes

100%

god damn it cakez. you were supposed to say "yeah, why?".

P-edit: I'm terrified to push you after our last two games together lol

[SirCakez]

Spoiler:

There's no way town you would think that both people voting you are scum together.

also as I said when Kagami said the same, I didn't mean for both you and Wraith to be scum with that post

Kagami was asking for guesses about her two favorite lynches after all, doesn't mean they have to be connected

But your next post implied you thought both of us were scum and Kagami changed your mind

maybe not both, but one of them probably is

talk to me about shadow and leon. I don't have a read on either

In this playerlist, I think yes

hm?
You think this playerlist should make me aggressive?

I think that you would be normal with these players if you were town here, but the fact you're holding back and going along with the crowd reads to me like scum trying to be cautious around this very strong playerlist.
To compare, you were very aggressive as scum in Soccer Spirits, but that playerlist was much weaker in general imo

There's no way town you would think that both people voting you are scum together.

I highly disagree.

Why?

-Because that's terribad logic in general. I would call anyone who pushed logic like that scummy.
-For the above reasons.

There's no way town you would think that both people voting you are scum together.

I don't agree with this at all.
1) Two scum voting together is not unlikely enough where town having the thought is unreasonable. 2) I don't think that Wisdom necessarily was thinking of who they were voting because I sure as hell didn't; my early uneasyness with you is mostly due to you seeming underwhelming compared to usualCakez, didn't really factor in your vote on Wisdom into that read.

-I think it's unlikely enough that he wouldn't have brought it up. Kagami shot it down immediately.
-Wisdom is usually super active with his early vote though. Plus it's not like other people weren't voting.

P-edit: I'm terrified to push you after our last two games together lol

well, this is reassuring.
by the way, I'm sorry for going off on you in Real Folks Blues as much as I did - I was very very frustrated with another game at the time and I think that a bit of my frustration over there bled over to Real Folks Blues and I'm sorry for that; I do think that your push on me there was pretty silly but typically it wouldn't piss me off in the way that it did and if you do end up misreading me here I promise not to be as much of an ass this time around although I will probably make fun of you a lot.

I was terrible there, you don't need to apologize

what are your hot takes on people not named Wisdom or Infinity?

Kraska townread like I said in my quotewall, tentatively leaning town on you, Tammy and Kagami for various reasons
Leon's entrance was pretty bad so that's a scumlean
The lack of Bulbazak presence is also concerning me

[SirCakez]

I think that you would be normal with these players if you were town here, but the fact you're holding back and going along with the crowd reads to me like scum trying to be cautious around this very strong playerlist.
To compare, you were very aggressive as scum in Soccer Spirits, but that playerlist was much weaker in general imo

i dont think these assumptions have any ground
I can't be town opting to not be aggressive for once because..?

Are you intentionally playing non-aggressively?

[SirCakez]

yeah

Why?

[SirCakez]

because

cakes' case is very shallow

Agreed.

Are you even reading my posts?

[SirCakez]

cakes' case is very shallow

Agreed.

Are you even reading my posts?

[SirCakez]

I liked Infinity for town-lean early but as time goes on I like him less.

No he wasn't @farside

Not sure I like the wraith wagon. The wisdom vote was weird but very sloppy for scum play.

Would like other answers about whether cakez is this shallow as scum vs. town

@cakez What do you think about wisdom's response that he changed playstyle because he felt like it? Do you think that's unlikely?

I don't know who scum is, but that's ok I guess. This game I'll try a more patient approach and not judge anyone until I have a solid read on them.

Where did he say because he felt like it?
All he said was "because" which could mean a bunch of things.

cakes' case is very shallow

Agreed.

Are you even reading my posts?

I didn't read your last big post. I did read your case and the lots of quotes reminded me of biker wars.

OK since you missed it
We're you expecting an indepth, well backed up case based on posts only up to the 6th page?

[SirCakez]

@cakez Ok, even if it's not "because I felt like it". Do you think town!wisdom could potentially want to hide his reason for changing? Don't you think scum!wisdom would've tried to give a better response? Meta changes, so "this is different therefore it's scum" seems weak and I dislike that you're not considering town motivation for changing meta.

I don't see why he'd want to hide that.
That's something that's bothering me, but no I don't think he would have.
Meta isn't the whole picture here. I think scum!wisdom tries to play more friendly and less aggressive in this playerlist. I don't think it's a coincidence he just "happened" to decide he wanted to play this game less aggressively (still waiting on a legitimate reason for that btw)

[SirCakez]

i find it disturbing you never answered the question legitimately

[SirCakez]

ok then my vote will remain on you

[SirCakez]

Spoiler:

suit yourself

Ok I will! I love lynching scum like you.

VOTE: cakez

Maybe I'm colored by my frustration but this is shitty.

He just refuses to consider town motivation for changing meta and also refuses to consider the disadvantages of playing so obviously differently as scum when multiple people in the game have played with him before.

I think town would be approaching it differently.

If Wisdom had actually worked with me when I was questioning him maybe I could buy he was doing it intentionally to mess with his meta.
Instead he basically handwaved so yeah I think he's scum who was bsing

If you're actually concerned about wisdom not trying to appease you, why don't you express doubts? Or question him on other things?

"He doesn't respond to useless questions"

Not to mention coming in with a single scumread and making little effort to sort anyone else is shitty play from town and more likely to come from scum.

I like to focus my scumreads
And I have developed other reads, I'm just not making them pronounced (I shared some of them in a previous post)

It was the 6th page when I made the vote. Were you expecting a large case? His ISO was like 10 posts at that point.

I'm inclined to think that you simply didn't have a reason you were able/willing to articulate at 291.

Why would I vote him if I didn't have reasoning (the game was obviously out of RVS)?

My shitty play so far is really just because I haven't gotten enough sleep and because I often struggle on d1.

I don't see the gears turning in cakez's head. I can see how he would be uneasy with wisdom changing up his style, but making a judgement so early without trying to figure him out is somewhat scummy imo.

I have been trying to figure out Wisdom ffs
Look at the convos I've been having with him

Cakez: why the focus only on Wisdom? Do you think I'm playing my typical way?

See above and yes
I don't think I've ever seen one of your scum games actually.

Also reads update
My Bulba not being here concerns have gone away for obvious reasons, he's a townlean now
Wraith is scummy with his cruddy "180 case" on Wisdom and his lack of legitimate analysis, but I don't think Wisdom and him are be scum together (the instant hop on to Wisdom and Wisdom's semi-OMGUS in response doesn't look like buddy-buddy interactions) so I'll hold off there for now.
And Shadow is a POE scumread for me because I've seen nothing townie from him, plus I think Wisdom's push there could be bussing easily (yes I'm POEing this early deal with it, I have a ton of townreads)

[SirCakez]

No, you were already scum before you refused to answer

If you had answered with something like that I would have investigated further to test if you were bullshitting or not
but you didn't so

[SirCakez]

of course you don't, it got you caught

[SirCakez]

if by fake you mean happy I caught scum then yeah

[SirCakez]

I don't even care. The fact that I'm getting town reads makes me so happy because it means I'm trusting again. I went on a hell of a scum streak and the result was that I've had a really hard time feeling good about town reads in the few town games I've gotten. Feeling paranoid about literally everyone in a game feels a hell of a lot worse than having a town read or two wrong on day one.

This is super duper genuine and I'm like 100% sure Tammy is town now

Okay let's take a look at shadow's short ISO

Firstly, it's somewhat of a good sign to me that both Wisdom and SirCakez both scumread him. It's a little early in the game though to present doubts on that front for fear of WIFOM.

What the heck does this mean?

Also crazy enough I'm scum reading bulba.

Why? I find his posts very townie.

My Bulba not being here concerns have gone away for obvious reasons, he's a townlean now

Activity never has anything to do with my alignment. I was just busy.

I was going off the one game I can remember seeing your play (Mafiaception) where you were pretty active as town
But I don't think I've seen your scum game so that's moot anyway

[SirCakez]

I agree Wraith's wall was pretty cruddy (reminds me of the huge walls I did in Soccer Spirits as scum, lots of "content" that's actually just from surface-level skimming and not real analysis), but his interactions with Wisdom continue to put me off that vote
Their interactions through page 19 don't look like buddies at all and Wisdom remains my stronger scumread of the two.

[SirCakez]

your reason for scumreading me is still bad

Why? We argued over this two or so pages ago and you ended up dropping the discussion.

[SirCakez]

Spoiler:

Cakez: I didnt forget about you.
My scum read on bulba is hard to explain because some of it is gut and impressions I get when I read his post.

Example his his dump of thoughts here say very little about shadow.
He gave a point about issues with wisdom, reads fillerish and wraith fluff question.

Alrighty then...

@Nacho: Give me your thoughts on Wisdom when you can. I'm not sure if I'm looking at 1305 Wisdom here, or if this is the amicable scum Wisdom I've been seeing a lot lately. I'm not sure how much I'm going to be around over the next few days, but I'll try to do my best with anything else you want to talk about.

@Wraith: Why'd you stop with the Mr. Fluffy talk? I found it strange in general, but I found you stopping to be kinda abrupt.

Vote Shaddowez

I could go Wraith too, but I'm not sure it's as good a vote.

Wraith/shadow/Leon is my first attempt at a guess

Was there something specific dropped by Lion-O? Because I just have him as null.

VOTE: cakez

Maybe I'm colored by my frustration but this is shitty.

He just refuses to consider town motivation for changing meta and also refuses to consider the disadvantages of playing so obviously differently as scum when multiple people in the game have played with him before.

I think town would be approaching it differently.

I can see where you're coming from here, but I fully agree with Cakez. An agreeable Wisdom definitely set off some red flags. His later play reminded me of my first game with him, though, but that's an anomaly when it comes to town Wisdom. Having been burnt by friendly Wisdom before, I fully understand the uneasy approach.

Alrighty then...

@Nacho: Give me your thoughts on Wisdom when you can. I'm not sure if I'm looking at 1305 Wisdom here, or if this is the amicable scum Wisdom I've been seeing a lot lately. I'm not sure how much I'm going to be around over the next few days, but I'll try to do my best with anything else you want to talk about.

@Wraith: Why'd you stop with the Mr. Fluffy talk? I found it strange in general, but I found you stopping to be kinda abrupt.

Vote Shaddowez

I could go Wraith too, but I'm not sure it's as good a vote.

Mr Scruffy says "It was time to get serious."

Why couldn't you do that while speaking for your cat?

@Wisdom: Where'd the switch from Wraith to Shadow come from?

I see a bit of buddying when a player agrees with another. He also hasn't a dress Wisdom directly or pushed Wisdom other then using buzz words like red flag and feeling.
I also dont get the issue from wis switch to wraith when bulba was scum reading wraith too.
So unless bulba thinks Wisdom is ultimate bussed man the scum read and concern about Wisdom looks manufactured.

Thanks for this response
I see where you're coming from but I don't think it's AI for Bulbazak with what I remember from mafiaception (he made these kind of fluffy-ish posts as town there pretty consistently)

I think scum!wisdom tries to play more friendly and less aggressive in this playerlist.

Why? Who in the playerlist is he playing around that would expect him to play more friendly? Who do you think it would help him to be "friendlier" to? I think that you're making an assertion about his meta that you can't back up. Please stop, take a step back, don't let all of the other reads that you have wander into the abyss just because this scumread exists.

Off the top of my head, you, Tammy, Kagami, and Bulba are all players who the super aggressive tactic wouldn't work on as scum, so he's being forced to go the friendly route
Like Soccer Spirits was a playerlist he could roll over, but not here

i find it disturbing you never answered the question legitimately

The question that you're looking for an answer to is "why are you playing differently this game", correct? Why is it scummy to play differently if he's shown he can be aggressive as town as well?

See above

Maybe I'm colored by my frustration but this is shitty.

He just refuses to consider town motivation for changing meta and also refuses to consider the disadvantages of playing so obviously differently as scum when multiple people in the game have played with him before.

Frustration with Cakez's argument specifically, right?
I agree that it's a silly argument in general, but I don't think it's exactly out of range of his town game. It is for reasons like this why I'd like him to focus on other reads; I think he's stubborn letting go of reads sometimes and whenever he's tunneling he's not as good of a player as when he's not.

If Wisdom showed even an ounce of interest in working with me then maybe I'd reconsider. But instead he's just being all stubborn which is p scummy.

What I don't think is silly is his concerns about Wisdom not being aggressive and whether or not the meta change means scum. I've seen aggressive and subdued Wisdom as scum though so I don't think that the change definitely means he's scum as I can think of a few town reasons for someone to change their approach, and there's no reason for him not to be aggressive in this situation as it would be what a good many of us would expect.

I was a bit weirded out by him not posting his quote stripes when he first entered though, but I don't put a whole lot of stock in arguments that he didn't explain a scum read because he couldn't at that time.

Cakez starting out with a reasonable point and then letting it get completely out of hand is pretty much what happened in Real Folks Blues and it's what I'm afraid of it happening here.

don't mention that game pls

I'm at the level of depression right now that I'm probably just going to prodge at best.

/hug

[SirCakez]

As for cakez.....idk. the meta stuff on Wisdom is meh to me, mostly because he's not saying where this matches scum Wisdom.
I don't recall Wisdom being super aggressive at the start in Walking dead mafia, so it's kind of where I disagree with cakez view on wisdom's playstyle

In Walking Dead he was typically aggressive Wisdom?

Off the top of my head, you, Tammy, Kagami, and Bulba are all players who the super aggressive tactic wouldn't work on as scum, so he's being forced to go the friendly route
Like Soccer Spirits was a playerlist he could roll over, but not here

Being aggressive doesn't mean that you're trying to roll over a town, it means that you're being active and you're pushing things stubbornly - in other words, all things that the people you noted are expected, meaning the most intuitive thing for Wisdom as scum is... to pretend like he's town. You're saying that being friendly somehow gives him an advantage when playing against stronger players even though he's expected is to be aggressive - what advantage is that, exactly?

The difference is he'll get pushback for his aggression against these players as compared to others, which is why friendly wisdom would be stronger for him as scum here.

If Wisdom showed even an ounce of interest in working with me then maybe I'd reconsider. But instead he's just being all stubborn which is

yet another trait ive always seen in wisdom and shouldnt be pretending is alignment indicative

Fixed that for you

I'm not scumreading you because of your stubborness (that's NAI), it's just not helping my read on you at all.

also

Off the top of my head, you, Tammy, Kagami, and Bulba are all players who the super aggressive tactic wouldn't work on as scum, so he's being forced to go the friendly route
Like Soccer Spirits was a playerlist he could roll over, but not here

This is a game that features scum-Wisdom vs Town-Nacho, Town-Tammy, Town-Kagami (and Town-farside as an extra). Check out what route I went.

I will look at that game.

Cakez: why is Wisdom's lack of aggression bothering you?
You were in Walking dead mafia and mollie and I discussed that issue, you said nothing about it but it bothers you this game.

See above

Spoiler:

A lot of this is old since a lot happened, but I'm going through everything.

to be clearer: Making a post without being over the top tryhard is not a playstyle adjustment, therefore arguing "yeah he wouldnt playstyle adjust so you dont have a point" is bullshit

i dont see how infinity was being "over the top tryhard" i think it was the opposite his posting emanates nervousness/wariness. but nyway ur point was he would have stopped probing people for answers to useless questions...which is still bs considering the timespan

I don't like "you can't possibly believe this you're scum" arguments, do you often find that you can find scum in that way?

Can you please explain what you mean by this? I don't see that type of argument from either of them, so I'm not sure what you're trying to get at.

Shadow's opening post looks motivated by "being safe." The initial part of his rule-of-three 147 is reasonable, but I don't like the wisdom bit and the final part also feels limp-wristed to me, as if the point were to mention an buddy in a negative light.

I also think the townreads on infinity aren't terribly well justified, and am suspicious that three players have it. I would guess that exactly one infinity-defender is scum regardless of his alignment.

What's the "rule-of-three"? Also, how do you feel I was being safe in my opening post?

shadow's play in the purge mafia came off as "playing safe" and he got scumread for it...im waiting for more content but i think shadow laying low and playing safe isnt particularly scummy for him

pedit: theres pere too i think

This post makes me hard townread kraska for reasons that I feel would be detrimental to town to say right now.

There's a difference between playing safe and having intent to play safe (especially in RVS).

I'm still not sure what you mean. How does any vote count as "playing safe" in RVS?

I don't like how much fluff this guy has

Explain? This seems like a ridiculous reason for voting.

Do you really feel that lack of content (ie fluff) is a bad reason for scum reading somebody? Isn't that a large part of what scum have to do, make stuff up and look busy?

i didn't really like her response to my questions but i'm also not sure if she knows any better

Please refer to the pronoun under my avatar.

cakes' case is very shallow

I'll add on an agree to this.

Also

cakes' case is very shallow

yep

It was the 6th page when I made the vote. Were you expecting a large case? His ISO was like 10 posts at that point.

You're right, when you made the vote it was. However, you were asked to explain it well after then, and you didn't add much substance to it.

shhh its ok it seems ive been chosen to be the designated person far thinks is scum and tunnels all game long its ok ive accepted my fate
anyway i was kinda half serious too. this is town farside

Are you saying this purely based on her tunneling?

Alrighty then...

@Nacho: Give me your thoughts on Wisdom when you can. I'm not sure if I'm looking at 1305 Wisdom here, or if this is the amicable scum Wisdom I've been seeing a lot lately. I'm not sure how much I'm going to be around over the next few days, but I'll try to do my best with anything else you want to talk about.

@Wraith: Why'd you stop with the Mr. Fluffy talk? I found it strange in general, but I found you stopping to be kinda abrupt.

Vote Shaddowez

I could go Wraith too, but I'm not sure it's as good a vote.

This is your second post, and it's practically a naked vote for me. Why do you feel I was a better vote than Wraith, who you also didn't address except for asking about Mr. Fluffy.

I didn't like him going after surface reasoning. His play just felt shallow overall, and I just didn't get the feeling that he was actually looking for scum.

So, you do realize I never actually said she was scum, it was just something I look out for? Also, if you want to ask anyone about me and semantics arguments you can ask Wisdom about Episode 1.

...snip....
I understand the scum reads on Wraith, but I was going to vote shaddowez until I realized I couldn't be the cool kid to start that wagon. So, I'm just gonna stick on Nacho for a while so you guys can question me about why it's there and when I'm going to change it because it's always fun when that happens.

You wouldn't have been the first person on the wagon...I believe there were already three votes on me. If I'm actually a scum read of yours, why wouldn't you vote me regardless of where on the wagon it was?

Okay let's take a look at shadow's short ISO
...snip....

I don't like semantic arguments. That's just me. Semantic arguments are a scumtell to me. That's probably because I strongly prefer VCA and logical/data-based arguments than attempting to analyze word choice or emotional expression. I think it's absolutely impossible to accurately analyze someone's emotional state over the internet.

See my comment above about my semantic arguments.

This wall reads like scum 101 to me. Full of pointless comments just to look like "content"

[SirCakez]

I skimmed through and you were indeed aggressive as scum vs a similar playerlist there
So yeah not as confident anymore <.<

P-edit: I thought I mentioned it earlier, he's a scumread. His posts on the last page did nothing to change that.

[SirCakez]

>.<
VOTE: leon

[SirCakez]

The wagon is bigger on leon
If the Shadow wagon gets bigger I'll go there instead, I want them both gone

[SirCakez]

No quote wall because I'm on mobile so I'll tldr it
Wisdom's bulba shot was horrifically bad but it also makes me feel better about him. I doubt he'd be that impulsive as scum (not a meta thing, just in general town are much more impulsive with things like dayvigs then scum).
I don't fully buy Leon's claim (it sounds OP as hell) but he claimed a vig, so its worth leashing tonight.
And lastly, Wraith was already a scummy slot but Grey has just solidified that with his scummy ass push on bulba/wisdom.
So I want Grey lynched and shadow vigged or vice versa, idc which
UNVOTE:

[SirCakez]

He claimed 3P...

[SirCakez]

If nacho is scum the one time I'm not tunneling him I'm going to kms

[SirCakez]

I could see Kraska scum if Nacho is town
Those two are my weakest townreads

[SirCakez]

Who said he was confirmed town?

[SirCakez]

Wait there's a third vig claim?

[SirCakez]

TIL Tammy claimed vig
Leon seems like the obvious liar to me

[SirCakez]

Infinity stop making me doubt my read on you

[SirCakez]

VOTE: leon lets go friends

Bad kraska bad

Infinity stop making me doubt my read on you

So when you posted 929 you weren't coming to the conclusion that Leon might be a good lynch?

No, it's still worth testing tonight obviously

[SirCakez]

Lyncher isn't a town role, why do people keep acting like it is?
(looking at you infinity)

[SirCakez]

Leon what happens to you if Xykon gets vigged?

[SirCakez]

Leon what happens to you if Xykon gets vigged?

I win and leave the game.

Yeah this is too much. I'm not buying it.

I'll start by apologizing and saying I suck.

I've tried keeping up, so some of this is off the top of my head. I agree with Wisdom's choice of the kill, although the results aren't what I would have hoped for. I was scum reading Bulba, and was going to make a case next time I was on, which is now irrelevant.

I'm not sure I buy Leon's role, at least not as a "town-aligned" 3p. I find it much more likely he's an SK with a fakeclaim that makes it sound less individual win. Regardless, I disagree with Wisdom's plan (and no, not just because either scenario has me dead - if my death gives info to town, so be it), but because I think it gives way too much power to one person - leon. Ultimately he gets to choose whether or not he's going to listen to the lynchee, and even if it means his death he could severely hurt town with a PR shot.

As for the multiple claims, I agree that Tammy is the towniest of the claims, but that lines up with my reads in general.

Regarding my vote, I thought I took it off RVS but was waiting for a VC before I voted. Grey hasn't done anything to improve my read of Wraith's slot, so since there was a recent VC I'm confident doing this.

VOTE: GreyICE

Lol at this crappy attempt at distancing

Still happy with my vote on greyice.

I've started a scum read on peregrine but it's a bit weird why I feel the way I do.
I'm highly doubtful moi would place a Lyncher that can also shot as a role.

Hi cakez: what are your current reads?

Hi!
Townreads on most everyone except scumreads on GI and Shadow and nullscum reads from POE on Nacho and kraska

VOTE: grey

[SirCakez]

Cakez: why kraska?

Weakest townread from early game along with nacho

Shrug.

I honestly don't care anymore.

Vote: GreyICE

Lynch Wisdom, lynch cakez, lynch shadow. Kthxbai

And suddenly I'm his second highest lynch target when I vote him despite 0 mention of a scumread on me earlier
Seemslegit

[SirCakez]

Leon what happens to you if Xykon gets vigged?

I win and leave the game.

Yeah this is too much. I'm not buying it.

I'll start by apologizing and saying I suck.

I've tried keeping up, so some of this is off the top of my head. I agree with Wisdom's choice of the kill, although the results aren't what I would have hoped for. I was scum reading Bulba, and was going to make a case next time I was on, which is now irrelevant.

I'm not sure I buy Leon's role, at least not as a "town-aligned" 3p. I find it much more likely he's an SK with a fakeclaim that makes it sound less individual win. Regardless, I disagree with Wisdom's plan (and no, not just because either scenario has me dead - if my death gives info to town, so be it), but because I think it gives way too much power to one person - leon. Ultimately he gets to choose whether or not he's going to listen to the lynchee, and even if it means his death he could severely hurt town with a PR shot.

As for the multiple claims, I agree that Tammy is the towniest of the claims, but that lines up with my reads in general.

Regarding my vote, I thought I took it off RVS but was waiting for a VC before I voted. Grey hasn't done anything to improve my read of Wraith's slot, so since there was a recent VC I'm confident doing this.

VOTE: GreyICE

Lol at this crappy attempt at distancing

Still happy with my vote on greyice.

I've started a scum read on peregrine but it's a bit weird why I feel the way I do.
I'm highly doubtful moi would place a Lyncher that can also shot as a role.

Hi cakez: what are your current reads?

Hi!
Townreads on most everyone except scumreads on GI and Shadow and nullscum reads from POE on Nacho and kraska

VOTE: grey

You doubt my claim, yet don't scumread me?

I scumread you but want to use your vig shot tonight.

[SirCakez]

VOTE: nacho

[SirCakez]

Shadowez/nacho/kraska with Leon as some sort of 3P
ggez?

[SirCakez]

Shadowez/nacho/kraska with Leon as some sort of 3P
ggez?

You think 3 kill roles in a game is balanced?
I kept thinking about it and it really doesn't.

I agree with nacho.

Well one would be controlled by scum and the other two were both very limited according to how they were claimed (and I believe both)
So yes I do

[SirCakez]

Shadowez/nacho/kraska with Leon as some sort of 3P
ggez?

You think 3 kill roles in a game is balanced?
I kept thinking about it and it really doesn't.

I agree with nacho.

Well one would be controlled by scum and the other two were both very limited according to how they were claimed (and I believe both)
So yes I do

So you believe Leons 3p claim, and think Tammy is town
But you still vote nacho, who you claim to have as scum "By poe", over wisdom who you just called scum

WTF?
I'm obviously calling Leon the scum there and both of the other two vig claimers town.

kraska youre the third arent you?

Cakez was obviously not calling me scum

Yep!

Also my poe is down to kagami or Pere as scum too.

Kagami is pretty obviously not scum, Pere less so
Why don't you think kraska is scum?

[SirCakez]

Shadowez/nacho/kraska with Leon as some sort of 3P
ggez?

You think 3 kill roles in a game is balanced?
I kept thinking about it and it really doesn't.

I agree with nacho.

Well one would be controlled by scum and the other two were both very limited according to how they were claimed (and I believe both)
So yes I do

So you believe Leons 3p claim, and think Tammy is town
But you still vote nacho, who you claim to have as scum "By poe", over wisdom who you just called scum

WTF?
I'm obviously calling Leon the scum there and both of the other two vig claimers town.

kraska youre the third arent you?

Cakez was obviously not calling me scum

Yep!

Also my poe is down to kagami or Pere as scum too.

Kagami is pretty obviously not scum, Pere less so
Why don't you think kraska is scum?

I'm seeing buddying from kagami that are setting my sensors off.
All Pere has done this game is make a few questions and added nothing more.
He's better then that as town.

I don't know how much you remember blood wars but from what I notice is kraska seems to go against others views and see things differently, that's not scummy.
Plus I can't imagine someone not concerned with only 1 death on n1 with 2 other claims, one which did it day 1.

Like what buddying?
Pere I am less confident on, yeah.

That's not what Kraska is being scumread for?

Shadow vs. Shaddow is annoying.

Like cakes poe-ing toward shadow.

Wat?

WTF?
I'm obviously calling Leon the scum there and both of the other two vig claimers town.

well whatever u seem to have missed the point of far's question on balance
anyway i still think youre scum and your reads are hollow
i get the feeling you just poke your head here to echo whatever's already being said

Tf?
I was the first one to call you scum.

[SirCakez]

I was referring to your last line there obv

[SirCakez]

so u do admit ur reads are hollow

Yes saying that your comment about me "echoing" is bullshit definitely = admitting my reads are hollow lol

Weird theory moment.
Do you think scum would shot one of there own for town points?

Leon role just seems OP as hell and I'm keeping that as a reason never to town read or follow the dude.

This is why I have him as scum still. I think he's telling the truth about abilities but lying about wincon.

[SirCakez]

Kraska or PV is my pick for flavor copping

[SirCakez]

so u do admit ur reads are hollow

Yes saying that your comment about me "echoing" is bullshit definitely = admitting my reads are hollow lol

Weird theory moment.
Do you think scum would shot one of there own for town points?

Leon role just seems OP as hell and I'm keeping that as a reason never to town read or follow the dude.

This is why I have him as scum still. I think he's telling the truth about abilities but lying about wincon.

Actually yeah, he could be a survivor or lyncher on someone else

I doubt Survivor, he would have no reason to hide that
I'm more thinking he's some sort of SK or Lyncher on an obviously town flavor, rather then presumably scum flavor with Xykon

[SirCakez]

Any ideas about possible lynchers on town flavors?

Miko being a lyncher on me (Belkar) could be an idea, but i think he would just shoot me if that was the case

Crystal being a lyncher on Haley is out too

Maybe Nale being a lyncher on Elan?

I have no idea about flavor, I'm assuming Xykon is scum based on what everyone said about the flavor

That's a weak reason to outright dismiss the possibility.

This is basically a confession he's lying about his wincon

People who disagree with you are not scum wisdom, you know that.

You're not a shining example of town wisdom.

^^^ is super town, regardless of the hammer comment

[SirCakez]

My Infinity town read has completely solidified now with his posting on page 52
I still want Kraska/PV flavor copped, I'm not sure why Wis thinks Kraska is town now
And my Kagami town read is slipping due to her extreme coasting <.<

[SirCakez]

Also there's an explanation for the lack of scum kills. So I think u guys should forget it for now

for this mainly

Oh I completely missed this
Then flavorcop PV

[SirCakez]

Nacho's wisdom push reeks of desperate scum

[SirCakez]

Hopefully
P-edit: yes, it's part of why I townread him

[SirCakez]

OH OH OH and Leon is lyncher on town... because Wisdom says so?
When I flip town, what happens?

I came up with Leon being lyncher on town first...
If you flip town then I'd reevaluate

Are you going to follow my words like they are the gospel? Are you finally going to leave me alone in future games?

Why would I do that (the gospel thing)?
I don't have some grudge against you, I think your interactions with Shadow were hella scummy and your argument with Wisdom looks like desperate scum
I'm not intentionally trying to annoy you or something

What I don't understand about your push on me is that your apology seemed legitimate; you seemed like you honestly regretted tunneling the shit out of me in two games in a row for two straight games, and, in this game, for just a couple blessed moments you were townreading me and apparently not falling into old habits and then suddenly you're pushing the shit out me all over again? Why?

I'm barely even pushing you and you're freaking out.
I don't even understand how you can compare this to the last two times (where I essentially death tunneled you).

Hopefully
P-edit: yes, it's part of why I townread him

I also want you to explain why Wisdom would shoot Bulbazak as town.

Because Wisdom is extremely impulsive as town

[SirCakez]

I came up with Leon being lyncher on town first...
If you flip town then I'd reevaluate

Why do you think Leon is a lyncher on town? Why does Wisdom?
If you flip town, then you'd reevaluate. How? Who would you look at first? Who would still be town?

Because his claimed role would be incredibly strong for town, but makes sense as pseudo-scum
Wisdom and Kagami would be my first reevals. Kraska and Infinity would remain townreads.

Why would I do that (the gospel thing)?
I don't have some grudge against you, I think your interactions with Shadow were hella scummy and your argument with Wisdom looks like desperate scum
I'm not intentionally trying to annoy you or something

Are you going to vote Wisdom when I flip town?
Why do my interactions with Shadow look bad? Why does my argument look like desperate scum?
I'm annoyed as I am with you because every single time we've played a game together lately this has been the exact treatment I've gotten from you, and it gets old really really quickly when this is something I'm dealing with every single game. I would not be this annoyed if you were someone else or if you seemed like you didn't think when you pushed people or if it seemed like there was actually some merit in what you were saying but there isn't or if you didn't pretend like you had perfect confidence in the push against me yet again.

If he does something else scummy, yeah
Because it looked like you were trying to avoid pushing him. And because you're using lots of AtE that I don't think you'd resort to as town.
I am intentionally being very restrained with my push on you because of those past games, but I've lost my faith in you being town

I don't even understand how you can compare this to the last two times (where I essentially death tunneled you).

so when i flip town here you're just going to shrug and go "yay, I didn't deathtunnel him!"
from the start of D2 you've been deathtunneling me
you managed to stop from deathtunneling me one whole fantastic day but you're deathtunneling me now.

How is this deathtunneling? I've barely mentioned you up until today
Like that's just misrep to make me feel guilty

Because Wisdom is extremely impulsive as town

this is stupid.

This response is stupid

[SirCakez]

I've been thinking about my cakez concerns and I think part of my issues there is also his kind of lowballing a scum read on kraska (recently retracted I know because of that post), but not really doing anything about it. Cakez recently caught kraska in family mafia when kraska was being widely town read and got a guilty with his track on her. I'd expect if he was in fact scum reading her to be a little more emboldened by that recent catch to push on her a bit more strongly if he was in fact scum reading her.

My Nacho scumread was much stronger due to my Kraska scumread mostly being POE. I don't see the relation between Family Mafia and this since in Family Mafia I had a guilty on Kraska..

Ok, done rereading.

I hope I don't regret this, but.

Let's not lynch Nacho. Let's have him flavor copped.

I am feeling really confident the two remaining scum are Cakez and farside.

VOTE: Cakez

You falling for Nacho's AtE?

[SirCakez]

Nulltown for some of her early-game posting and looking like games I've played with her in the past
That said I don't think I've ever played with her as scum so the meta isn't really strong

[SirCakez]

Tell me why you have an associate based on absolutely nothing and changed your view on nacho for literally theory bs?

"Absolutely nothing" is what you and Cakez have done this game

You've pushed townies for idiotic reasons only to opportunistically jump on popular wagons (Leon yesterday, Nacho today)

As for Cakez, he reluctantly bussed shaddow when he saw everyone was scumreading him and went from deathtunneling on me to hardsheeping me on Nacho. Because that's totally how natural read progression goes.

This doesn't make any sense
You think it's scummy that I reevaluated a tunnel on you and then agreed with a scumread you had?

[SirCakez]

How is agreeing on one read sheeping?
Like I'll admit I'm following you pretty hard on Nacho but I am most definitely not hardsheeping you a la death note

[SirCakez]

Rather, I was following you pretty hard on nacho until you got uber paranoid all of a sudden

[SirCakez]

No I am still scumreading nacho, 1507 was saying that I'm not following you on Nacho anymore since you're apparently townreading him now
Currently my other scumreads (aside from Leon obviously) are PV and Kagami. Neither of them are very strong though, they're mostly from POE and coasting.

[SirCakez]

I've been thinking about my cakez concerns and I think part of my issues there is also his kind of lowballing a scum read on kraska (recently retracted I know because of that post), but not really doing anything about it. Cakez recently caught kraska in family mafia when kraska was being widely town read and got a guilty with his track on her. I'd expect if he was in fact scum reading her to be a little more emboldened by that recent catch to push on her a bit more strongly if he was in fact scum reading her.

My Nacho scumread was much stronger due to my Kraska scumread mostly being POE. I don't see the relation between Family Mafia and this since in Family Mafia I had a guilty on Kraska..

You like to use a lot of meta when you read people. This manifested in the cowboy game by you claiming that nacho never lurks or gets prodded as town for instance, so I would expect something like that in your scum read on kraska, especially since you caught kraska when nobody else was really looking in here direction. I'd expect if you actually had a scum read on kraska you'd be bringing in your experience and you catching her. Usually when someone catches a person, they get a sense that they can read them, but I'm not getting that sense at all. You just keep kind of floating a kraska scum read here but it doesn't seem to have much thought behind it.

First off I'm not scumreading kraska anymore

Kraska is someone who I really don't know how to meta. Like the only experience I can remember with her is Family Mafia, and I had a guilty there so I didn't really analyze her. Remember that I targeted Kraska for a follow in that game because she was null, not a scumread.

Nulltown for some of her early-game posting and looking like games I've played with her in the past
That said I don't think I've ever played with her as scum so the meta isn't really strong

What specifically looks town?

I'll dig up the specifics when I get to a computer, Thanksgiving prep is taking up time and all

[SirCakez]

So my farside townread was based on how she was constantly reevaulating her reads and engaging with others, which are town behaviors obviously. I haven't seen her scum game though so if she also does this as scum then correct me.
Some sample quotes below

Spoiler:

Initial reads dump

cakes' case is very shallow

Agreed.

I agree, but then I don't remember him being so shallow as scum, so let's see what else he'll post

He is very shallow with reads as scum.

Why are you scumreading kraska?

Her push looks manufacturer. I don't see the town read on Infinity or the scum read on you ad valid. Some of it is playstyle, although her comment about me gives me slight pause.
Very slight.

Scum reads wraith<cakez <infinity <kraska

Null on shadow.

Engaging her scumread Wraith

VOTE: cakez

Maybe I'm colored by my frustration but this is shitty.

He just refuses to consider town motivation for changing meta and also refuses to consider the disadvantages of playing so obviously differently as scum when multiple people in the game have played with him before.

I think town would be approaching it differently.

This is scum posting. ^

cakes' case is very shallow

Agreed.

Are you even reading my posts?

I didn't read your last big post. I did read your case and the lots of quotes reminded me of biker wars.

I liked Infinity for town-lean early but as time goes on I like him less.

No he wasn't @farside

Not sure I like the wraith wagon. The wisdom vote was weird but very sloppy for scum play.

Would like other answers about whether cakez is this shallow as scum vs. town

@cakez What do you think about wisdom's response that he changed playstyle because he felt like it? Do you think that's unlikely?

I don't know who scum is, but that's ok I guess. This game I'll try a more patient approach and not judge anyone until I have a solid read on them.

Town lean is in that sentence. And he didn't explain the issues.
Speaking of which, why did you vote him in the first place?

Yeah I don't like this one. I clearly explained why my read had changed.

Let's review the important thing.
First you say you had a town lean in the begining.

it could still mean that he doesnt find your reasoning convincing enough to think that was a genuine progression
idk wraith come explain that post of urs pls

pedit: wahat

This

I liked Infinity for

town-lean early but as time goes on I like him less.

I like Kraska for town but find her scumread on Kagami strange.

Kagami still strongest townread.

PeregrineV townread.

Biggest scum leans are farside and Wisdom but they aren't particularly strong at this point.

However if anyone actually reads wraith issues with infinty it starts with post number 10 in the game.
So exactly what was earlier that read town and why not mention issues till way later after others already said something?

Specific stuff I don't like about Infinity so far:

I had a woohoo woowee I'm town post planned, but I rolled scum

that's what you really meant, admit it

Why no vote?

This really rubs me the wrong way. It's a pretty obvious joke literally less than 10 posts into the game but he's jumping on it like it's scummy.

I liked him town-lean early for posts 25, 28, and 39, but so far that's kind of it.

Ha! I thought it had something to do with the numbers.

Tammy - Understanding P5's humor since 2016. Go me!

Infinity - Did you just vote nacho because there was a wagon started on him already?

Yes

This rubs me wrong too.

You're entitled to your opinion. Since I don't think farside's vote was particularly scummy, I'm not going to bother to argue it.

He says this, but previously had like five posts questioning the motives of farside's vote. ???

His vote on me without explaining why is odd but could easily just be looking to get a reaction out of me. I guess it worked a different way because it drew a lot of reactions from other players.

I might shift my vote in a minute. About to re-read Wisdom's ISO to see if I'm remembering things right in my evaluation of him.

Reevaluating reads

And I'm sure I'll get shit for this but I feel comfortable calling wraith and Infinity scum and would vote for either.
I noted 2 times Infinity stated issues with wraith but stayed mostly away from voting him and finding his vote onto others instead for rather weak reason's.
Also crazy enough I'm scum reading bulba.
Cakez moved to null.

Engaging her scumread infinity

I don't need to engage with you. You're the one calling me scum. It's your responsibility to engage with me and ask questions and figure out if your scumread is correct.

Your implication that my "defense" of wraith in this game is similar to my defense of mm in poker mafia is laughable. I defend town and sometimes scum as both alignments. And as I said before, I can't be fucked to remember your specific actions from a game that ended months ago. You seem to take a large amount of issue with me asking a question with respect to that for some reason.

Great, we have a question! Although, if you looked at the post where I voted, it would answer your question completely. When I'm null on someone before, and they do something scummy, well then they might just turn into a scumread.

Let's take this one step at a time.

1) I don't know players to go hmmm does x do something like this typically without it meaning there is some suspicion of the player for doing it and not just being curious.
2) you went from voting wraith, without a reason, to unvoting him and voting someone esle. Then when called out about this by me, you vote for the dude again.
Tell me how I should say that looks fucking natural?
3) if I have to search your meta to find out how well you actual remember players actions I will.
That's my only warning.

For now.

VOTE: wraith

Talking to me about her scumread on Bulba

Cakez: I didnt forget about you.
My scum read on bulba is hard to explain because some of it is gut and impressions I get when I read his post.

Example his his dump of thoughts here say very little about shadow.
He gave a point about issues with wisdom, reads fillerish and wraith fluff question.

Alrighty then...

@Nacho: Give me your thoughts on Wisdom when you can. I'm not sure if I'm looking at 1305 Wisdom here, or if this is the amicable scum Wisdom I've been seeing a lot lately. I'm not sure how much I'm going to be around over the next few days, but I'll try to do my best with anything else you want to talk about.

@Wraith: Why'd you stop with the Mr. Fluffy talk? I found it strange in general, but I found you stopping to be kinda abrupt.

Vote Shaddowez

I could go Wraith too, but I'm not sure it's as good a vote.

Wraith/shadow/Leon is my first attempt at a guess

Was there something specific dropped by Lion-O? Because I just have him as null.

VOTE: cakez

Maybe I'm colored by my frustration but this is shitty.

He just refuses to consider town motivation for changing meta and also refuses to consider the disadvantages of playing so obviously differently as scum when multiple people in the game have played with him before.

I think town would be approaching it differently.

I can see where you're coming from here, but I fully agree with Cakez. An agreeable Wisdom definitely set off some red flags. His later play reminded me of my first game with him, though, but that's an anomaly when it comes to town Wisdom. Having been burnt by friendly Wisdom before, I fully understand the uneasy approach.

Alrighty then...

@Nacho: Give me your thoughts on Wisdom when you can. I'm not sure if I'm looking at 1305 Wisdom here, or if this is the amicable scum Wisdom I've been seeing a lot lately. I'm not sure how much I'm going to be around over the next few days, but I'll try to do my best with anything else you want to talk about.

@Wraith: Why'd you stop with the Mr. Fluffy talk? I found it strange in general, but I found you stopping to be kinda abrupt.

Vote Shaddowez

I could go Wraith too, but I'm not sure it's as good a vote.

Mr Scruffy says "It was time to get serious."

Why couldn't you do that while speaking for your cat?

@Wisdom: Where'd the switch from Wraith to Shadow come from?

I see a bit of buddying when a player agrees with another. He also hasn't a dress Wisdom directly or pushed Wisdom other then using buzz words like red flag and feeling.
I also dont get the issue from wis switch to wraith when bulba was scum reading wraith too.
So unless bulba thinks Wisdom is ultimate bussed man the scum read and concern about Wisdom looks manufactured.

[SirCakez]

Cakez - I don't care about what your read on kraska is now, I care about what it was before she made that post. You had her as a scum read yesterday up until today. But it was kinda yeah probably kraska, but you weren't really pushing it, which is what read off to me.

Well yeah yesterday we had the clown show with Grey, Shadow and Leon, and today Nacho was my focus. I never really had the chance to solely focus Kraska.

Also to tack on to my farside townread, I think her recent frustration with Wisdom looks very genuine.

[SirCakez]

Also to tack on to my farside townread, I think her recent frustration with Wisdom looks very genuine.

Haha

no, farside is being obvious scum now. Her reactions are the same as when I caught her here.

So I went and read her ISO there and yeah you're right <.<
Mb

Either way I still prefer lynching cakes first. Idk why the stuff I said on him got dismissed as bs earlier...cakes has been in almost all my recent games, nothing he put out here looks like a product of a scum hunting mindset.

What recent games have I played with you other then family mafia?

[SirCakez]

Oh I just remembered you were scum in the Folk Blues right, I totally forgot about that
You were pretty lurky in that game iirc so a good meta sign at the least

[SirCakez]

Where the hell did everyone go?

[SirCakez]

ffs you guys Nacho just threw out a shitload of AtE then started lurking and it's working! It reminds of Musical Mafia where he did the same thing as part of the Pied Piper and nearly got away, but Cerberus saved the game.
And now we're lynching someone who is, for me, a complete tossup

I will not comment on this topic further.

This is definitely lyncher on town, obviously. He has to go at some point.

btw a thought I had that I dont remember if I posted is that Cakez was okay to have shaddow vigged because they have a scum doc and they would save him

but obv they didnt expect strongman

Also this is total bull
I explicitly said I didn't care who got lynched and who got vigged

[SirCakez]

No I won't

[SirCakez]

Kagami I doubt Kraska is scum even if Wisdom is, his soft earlier was very likely town
Nacho's game dodging is only making me more confident he's the right choice here

[SirCakez]

ffs my bad
I just looked at his other games and he's definitely posting a LOT more in other games then here....

[SirCakez]

ffs my bad
I just looked at his other games and he's definitely posting a LOT more in other games then here....

I'm frustrated that he's not posting here, but this is a bit exaggerative. He's in one other game here and he posted in that one game over the course of an hour or so.

Infinity I wasn't saying he's scum because he didn't catch up, I'm saying he's probably scum because he's just probably scum. He's clearly following along as he wanted Leon to full claim. He could have responded to any other thing as well and he didn't.

Far side what do you think of kraska's role intersection with mine?

Nacho - I feel like you must have felt in three little pigs right now. I think you're scum, but I really don't want you to be and I don't know if I'm partly thinking you're scum because I'm so frustrated waiting for you to talk about someone who is not wisdom. Actually you are also giving me the feeling you gave me at gog too.

Not really an exaggeration, he was making literally dozens of posts elsewhere

[SirCakez]

I've also pushed Kraska, PV, and Kagami as scumspects today??? (and leon obviously)
If someone else thinks I'm deathtunneling say so

[SirCakez]

there are so many walls and I'm glazing over

[SirCakez]

Nacho, i see you defending farside, defending me, defending yourself to Tammy, and discussing with kagami and infinity about things.

What i dont see you doing is scumhunting. You dont seem to care at all about finding the remaining scum.

I wonder why that could be....

I think that replace out from farside was pretty town, assuming it was from frustration and not IRL stuff (that would be null).

[SirCakez]

Could you flesh out the cakez and PV read?

If they're PoE, then a brief summary of why each other person is likely town would be great.

Things that stand out to me about Cakez are his treatment of Farside when she was gaining heat (I don't like that he can't explain why he thought Farside reaction here was similar to duck duck goose) and I don't like his interactions with me. I don't think that he'd be pushing me in this way if he was town.

What duck duck goose?

Oh shit it's Robb Stark

I was just over at mafiauniverse trying to figure that out.

So, nacho if you're scum reading cakez, how come you ignored my concerns on cakez?

I didn't think I ignored them. I disagreed with your reasoning re: kraska because Cakez got a guilty on her, he didn't really catch her and some of his lack of conviction reminded me of Real Folks Blues.

Yeah, you did ignore them. Why do you think I asked if this was the game where you were just going to ignore me if you actually interacted with anything that I said that had anything to do with the game except for you willfully misinterpreting me saying you were probably scum as me saying you didn't catch up and so you were scum and fucking harping on that???

You're just scum and you know exactly what you're doing!

Ding ding ding

Nacho isn't scumhunting at all. This is vastly different from Folk Blues and Family. There he at least TRIED to do something. Here nothing.

[SirCakez]

Ding ding ding

Nacho isn't scumhunting at all. This is vastly different from Folk Blues and Family. There he at least TRIED to do something. Here nothing.

You should probably try to read a quote before you try to piggyback off it.

Wasn't trying to piggyback, it was a comment I wanted to make.

What duck duck goose?

That game that made you lose your faith on your Farside townread? Did you manage to forget about it somehow?

No, I thought that game was a mini theme, not an open for some reason
And I still think the farside slot is nulltown, it's just not as strong

[SirCakez]

Except he's like guaranteed to being lying about his wincon at this point
He even softed it earlier

[SirCakez]

No, that's what he thought wisdom was for some odd reason

Pedit: @cakez

No I mean like the "I don't want to discuss this anymore" stuff
Like shying away from the theory that he could be a lyncher on town

[SirCakez]

Wasn't trying to piggyback, it was a comment I wanted to make.

No. You quoted her post, you said "DING DING DING" like you agreed and understood what she was saying and then started talking about something completely different.

yes the ding ding ding was a comment on the quote and the other stuff was a separate comment
That's why I spaced them out

[SirCakez]

Wasn't trying to piggyback, it was a comment I wanted to make.

No. You quoted her post, you said "DING DING DING" like you agreed and understood what she was saying and then started talking about something completely different.

yes the ding ding ding was a comment on the quote and the other stuff was a separate comment
That's why I spaced them out

What were you dingdingdinging about?

That nacho is scum

Glad that wisdom has realized the farside slot is town

[SirCakez]

Kagami or PV

[SirCakez]

Cakez - I thought that farside was null town to you?

She was

[SirCakez]

@leon, panther, peregrine get off your vanity wagons/no votes and vote nacho

[SirCakez]

Also I was just coming in here to posit that nacho and cakez were probably both just scum because neither seems especially interested in getting their big scum read lynched, cakez' posting took some of that thunder away, but it's very lukewarm.

How can you say I'm not interested in pushing nacho? He's at L-1 now lol

[SirCakez]

Also I was just coming in here to posit that nacho and cakez were probably both just scum because neither seems especially interested in getting their big scum read lynched, cakez' posting took some of that thunder away, but it's very lukewarm.

How can you say I'm not interested in pushing nacho? He's at L-1 now lol

*twitch*

That is not from your doing, and he was not at l-1 when I made that post. You were in the lead.

I most certainly contributed a lot to that though
The L-1 was just to show that my nacho push was clearly working

[SirCakez]

I suck
Fun game! Thanks for modding Magna!

[SirCakez]

I put a lot of effort into trying to make the far side slot look scummy and nacho look town post my flip
We got screwed by so many NKs failing

[SirCakez]

Yeah not getting my fake claim out sucked <.<