Mini 1853: Trial of the Evoker [Game Over]

[Aj The Epic]

Hello! I felt the growing need to revisit my roots and be a compulsive liar. Hard to stay away permanently. Short summary of what's up?

[Aj The Epic]

omg there are abilities like that? jeeze. Well it's not on Sondam so VOTE: sondam but please out to everyone ahead of time who you give that to so we don't accidentally hammer anyone.

This theme is really awesome and I'm going to try not to be a complete deadweight this time

-"tama"

predit: oh yeah you're right they would I'm dumb

What'd my prior say? Noncompulsive?

Also whoever of those two acts odd around BATORU would be the more suspicious to me. First post from that slot was a sheep vote, something that felt like feigned surprise and an incredible amount of tentativeness.

[Aj The Epic]

Oh I was going to make a wall post using that post from BATORU as a I read through but screw that, there's too much effort involved there when I can just talk through my read through instead.

[Aj The Epic]

So you are saying Batoru is scum and people acting odd around them are team mates?

I didn't specify what I figured "Odd" would be but yes, in general if someone is acting different towards Batoru (distancing or defending as a generality) than I'd be very suspicious of that slot.

Also yes my prior would've been lying on that. I received an ability last night.

[Aj The Epic]

You are basically telling me my strongest townread is scum right now.

You are also doing a pre flip analysis of Batoru interactions.

You sir, are the scummiest player here.

Considering Pisskop has told me you basically have 1 scum confirmed between two players, I'm at least taking silver in that category.

But I mean if you're that against having a town read scrutinized, you're liable to get your ass handed to you by a misread.

I was gonna let Tama respond but I can't actually let that go.

First post was RVS. In RVS you generally try to get a wagon going to start the game. I don't see an issue with voting where someone has already done so there. Not a fan that you bring up participating in RVS as an issue. Tentativeness is kinda how Tama is, you'll probably pick that up as you read though if you're actually trying to read tone.

~Ruko

I think I've been along long enough to know what RVS is.

Her participation in RVS isn't the issue, the tentativeness is. And this is regardless of tone a person usually has. I don't know either player in this hydra (at least I don't recognize either signature) so my first thought was "tama must really not have much experience to not know an ability like hated exists". However the second line, where she follows Wisdom's vote, is what really bothers me. Tentativeness would dictate to NOT start a wagon. Experienced townies WOULD start it, but with confidence. Certainly no talk about worrying for accidental hammers then. All in all, the post's actions and words contradict itself.

[Aj The Epic]

No, it simply doesn't exist.

[Aj The Epic]

I'd prefer you get rid of the double watcher scenario first.

[Aj The Epic]

Anyway, Tama does have some experience with forum mafia, but not a lot. Off the top of my head, two newbies, a mini normal, and a mini theme. I don't really know what you expect from inexperience, but I stopped worrying about lolhammers after my first newbie, and even then I think I was only anxious about it when people actually reached a danger zone. L-5 is nowhere near it.

That's my point, she DID worry about it.

Don't know what NAI is. I was more concerned about the associates of your slot because the order of business today isn't you but two people in a situation where at least one is lying about a night action. That's a scenario where you don't worry about lynching anyone else specifically because you know you have a minimum 50% chance to lynch scum.

Also remember that on my read-through, I DO get bonus information. I know two flipped townies and can use that. Not using that information for how others associate with the slot is a bad idea. Yes I'm going to use associative tells. This game is about interacting and naturally not doing so is just inefficient.

P-edit: Yeah there's really no need for a hidden intention here. I'm not interested in dying before a situation where a scum is guaranteed to be in 1 of 2 slots.

[Aj The Epic]

I'd prefer you get rid of the double watcher scenario first.

Then provide thoughts on which one is scum and town?

Yeah uhm let me download the few gigabytes of information in this thread straight to my brain and give you an analysis an hour after switching in.

there is no town utility for fake claiming that.

Well there is, and that's to collect roles. This slot has one amendment to it from normal and that's that we're non-compulsive. Going by his actions, this was exactly what he aimed for as he didn't take action last night anyways.

[Aj The Epic]

Yeah uhm let me download the few gigabytes of information in this thread straight to my brain and give you an analysis an hour after switching in.

I think its really weird, you jump in and say Batoru is scum for stuff in RVS (very limited info there), then when I ask you some thoughts on two different players. You say "theres so much information I can't just GIVE IT TO YOU NOW"

You just proved you can make a read from little.
Why do you need to process everything from these two now?

Also, no rush. I just thought since you were very opinionated very early you formed reads pretty fast with very little info. Because thats what it appeared like to me.

Yes but one of the two people in question didn't show up much in the early game. I read into RVS more than most simply because it's the most awkward post in the game for scum. No strategy played out, little information, and the ability for anyone to run up a wagon on you at random makes it a tedious part for scum.

What? She worried about it in context of Dunnstral claiming a curse that made him hated, not about the actual hop on the wagon. She was saying whoever had the curse should claim so we don't think we're putting someone at L-1 when we're actually hammering. That had nothing to do with the Sondam wagon.

The problem isn't you using associate tells with the other flipped slots. It's you using associate tells with slots that

haven't flipped

because apparently you think we're scum because Tama lacks confidence? What you're positing is absolutely ridiculous and it feels like you're just trying to swing things so that you don't have to lynch your buddy today because "well this person looked worse with BATORU who I scumread off that one RVS post". Then when they flip town, because we're town, you don't even need to re-evaluate on us because that was the "original" scumread. Like, atm to me it looks like you're trying to push back the lynch of a buddy by a day to secure a ML on town by drawing associates with us that you can keep your hands clean from later. Am I going crazy here?

~Ruko

Alright, I read it too fast and see that it was about who he gave the ability to, not Sondam's wagon. It was the same line so I assumed it was questioning THAT WAGON's potential hammer vote.

"Lynch my buddy today". Alright. First issue, I've not read the thread. Unless you assume daytalk and us having discussed SPECIFICALLY that one person has kissed up to you more than the other, you're really grasping at straws. Secondly, I've given no push either way on it. In that case, you'd expect SOME action, regardless of WIFOM or not. Bus the buddy, give a read of town on them? Inaction normally doesn't befit scum bussing scum. There's always something to be done. Instead I'm just reading, and haven't given anything towards it.

Your entire basis holds no water unless there's some major amounts of communication happening really early on to my posting. And notice, neither one in question for the lynch would be on to fill me in?

8585590#p8585590]post 1810[/url], Not Chara"]'collect roles'? that claim has the effect of making no one want to target him. a bad way to collect roles. unless i'm misunderstanding your meaning.

has everyone posted today? i think we're still missing the recipient of Gamma's 'ping'.[/quote]

The way he worded it suggested that a NK would be deflected back, along with any other roles. It's a pseudo BP from the start. Secondly, anyone wondering about the legitimacy would poke at it with a non-vig (which most likely doesn't exist given what was said D1) role. Because the slot is non-compulsive, he could effectively hoard roles.

[Aj The Epic]

For reference, I did get Gamma's ping

[Aj The Epic]

For reference, I did get Gamma's ping

what is the name of the spell. the exact name.

Alert

[Aj The Epic]

omg there are abilities like that? jeeze. Well it's not on Sondam so VOTE: sondam but please out to everyone ahead of time who you give that to so we don't accidentally hammer anyone.

This theme is really awesome and I'm going to try not to be a complete deadweight this time

-"tama"

predit: oh yeah you're right they would I'm dumb

For reference, I did get Gamma's ping

what is the name of the spell. the exact name.

Alert

I have a neighborhood with SOI.

I told SOI the parphrase of ALERT.

Tell us now, your version of alert. paraphrase it

Poke at someone's mind, temporarily letting them know you poked them. There are no other effects.

[Aj The Epic]

Yeah it seems like a really terrible mailman. Like it'd be a funny role if a PGO existed but otherwise it really does nothing other than prove you didn't go somewhere.

[Aj The Epic]

The entire post was supposed to appear that way though.

Honestly I hate AtE, it's a disgusting way to play a logic game. However if I'm going to see AtE, I expect it to be motivated and pointed towards 'doing' something, not 'preventing' something. I wouldn't give that post the time of day.

[Aj The Epic]

Claim RB dunn.

VOTE: Dunn

[Aj The Epic]

I mean I guess it doesn't matter since one was lying scum regardless but that's the NK that didn't go through.

[Aj The Epic]

....it was bad AtE... There was nothing real nor raw about it.

[Aj The Epic]

it doesn't change that the AtE was forced.

[Aj The Epic]

It was a spell. Scum already know how they got targeted, because Dunn holds the spell.

[Aj The Epic]

You were about to lynch me yesterday. In my mind, that's a win.

[Aj The Epic]

Yeah because lying and misinformation is a good wincon.

[Aj The Epic]

More importantly, a doctor scum role is going to doctor scum players. BTD6 should be able to realize this, it sorta feels like a setup to have Dunn incriminate someone before dying.

[Aj The Epic]

you realize Mega Frozen's slot flipped town days ago?

[Aj The Epic]

By the way if you have one of those mind pokes, send them to me. Being noncompulsive, I can store them and prevent them from interrupting tracker/watcher results and being a cop out in those claims.

[Aj The Epic]

quick clarification: was Aj ever pinged with alert?

tonally, BTD feels like scum here. but he hasn't said anything i disagree with, and apparently i'm bad at tone.

Yes, the slot was pinged the night before I replaced in. Sadly, the second ping that SHOULD'VE been sent to me last night was not. Imo that's a pretty scummy move, to keep that floating around where I could just secure and stop it.

[Aj The Epic]

Pisskop knows who holds it, he mentioned having sent one out yesterday.

[Aj The Epic]

Yeah the NKA there is bad. If I were scum with BTD6 I'd be kinda confident in his death anyways and focus on higher priority targets.

The only thing I draw from the NK is BATOROU is still here....

[Aj The Epic]

Pisskop who did you poke with the mind alert thing

[Aj The Epic]

havingfitz/sickofit should be considered town unless something comes up in thread then.

[Aj The Epic]

prod dodge, just in case.

Aj: is your comment about Sickofit slot being town because the power was apparently redirected onto them? and only scum would be redirecting and not claiming it, i would assume. or is there something i've missed?

That's part of it. The rest of it is a bit of role specification speculation I have so I'm not really go around and share what I think I've found.

[Aj The Epic]

There's actually a lot of interaction between Dunn and Dreamerz that suggest Dunn was trying to set him up for a day 2 lynch.

[Aj The Epic]

I don't really mind that conclusion, but I also can't read pisskop.

[Aj The Epic]

aj, drealz is scumnin it up and even using your scunresd on bat to omgus them

My entire read right now on dreamralz is that I don't think Dunn had to bus him that early. I'm pretty much on the BTD6 wagon, but I'm trying to find something from Dunnstral elsewhere before committing.

[Aj The Epic]

Do you bus someone who doesn't have to die?

[Aj The Epic]

as scum?

sometimes. i usually hardball one partner at some point.

when firebringer and i were a team i had him gladiate me in lylo

Did it work?

I mean I've played with you before when we were on the same team and I don't recall a needless bus. Then again we were kinda cooked for the majority of that game.

[Aj The Epic]

Go ahead and check. As of right now, I'm only holding the two alerts.

[Aj The Epic]

why send the alert to fire assassin actually. I had specifically requested to have them.

[Aj The Epic]

The issue with BTD6 and Fitz right now is their clears seem to only be from each other, between cop and redirection. If it was a bit more diversified and less of a two man unit, I'd lend more credence to it.

[Aj The Epic]

Didn't you say you investigated him and he did the same to you?

[Aj The Epic]

I think the game is solved with a drealmerz and gamma lynch. Are we at time for intent yet?

[Aj The Epic]

VOTE: Drealmerz7

L-1

[Aj The Epic]

Also I'm completely missing the fact that gamma was part of the frozen hydra that split off.

[Aj The Epic]

[unvote[/unvote]

But it's still happening.

[Aj The Epic]

UNVOTE:

[Aj The Epic]

Prism's probably town tho.

[Aj The Epic]

"can't be sure of anyone else's townness" is a complete and utter copout that I'd expect scum to use to take a spell to the grave when they figure they're done.

[Aj The Epic]

Chara, you're the other sun caster, right? Are you still compulsive?

[Aj The Epic]

VOTE: Dreamrlz

[Aj The Epic]

VOTE: drealmerz7

Thought all games had Christmas off. We can finish this lynch off I'm pretty sure.

[Aj The Epic]

NTY I don't like Lylo. Pick someone, we're going fucking ham.

[Aj The Epic]

Mod, it's four to lynch with 6 alive.

Do we really have a bunch of useless fucking spells that just aren't doing anything for night actions? Also agree BTD6.

[Aj The Epic]

Started with it. Picked up the Alert night one, held the block. No one had a chance to know it was in play.

[Aj The Epic]

But it really isn't, unless you're claiming to not have a pure town read. Letting it go into Lylo just means that you're REQUIRED to double LYLO to win the game. Lynch scum today allows us to burn the MYLO no lynch tomorrow which forces scum to kill off a less-townread person (because they kill the one tonight that they would've killed in a no-lynch for Mylo.

[Aj The Epic]

In my mind, the final set was Drealmz/BATORU or BTD6/pisskop.

[Aj The Epic]

Uh yeah this is gonna be a fun catchup. We'll try to fill you in with whatever, but needless to say there's a good bit of legwork to be done.

[Aj The Epic]

Because it's more or less a case of 'who else?'. However one of the reasons I don't think no lynching is needed is because I'd be willing to bet the game on BTD6 being scum.

[Aj The Epic]

But if we have a Confirmed town or confirmed scum, going to night does us absolutely nothing.

[Aj The Epic]

It's BTD6.

Are you really willing to lynch anyone else anyways?

[Aj The Epic]

I'm quietly following Grey on his re-read right now, trying to see if there's anything I'm missing.

[Aj The Epic]

@Dunn why did you choose pisskop?

For the curse? Scummy.

Fire, fucking alert

VOTE: dunn

I am very busy and have been skimming.

VOTE: Nosferatu

This is a much better vote than Dunnstral at the moment. I currently read Dunnstral as Town so believe his claim.

So the most important part was re-reading the part leading directly up to the Nos lynch in the TvS (known TvS too) NosVDunn lynch. Specifically:

Pisskop is town
BTD6 is scum
and BATORU again votes Nos over Dunn (though has revising right before lynch).

Pisskop can lynch Nos here no questions asked. No one knows, both have similar contributions (in fact, Dunn's were slightly better to this point). It's an easy and pro-alignment push to make. And you HAVE to kill Nos afterwards if you don't get her lynched. Importantly, you already want Fire cleared here (or team did, that was next NK) so that's a huge issue if that lynch gets Dunn first.

Same reason for BTD6, other way around.

VOTE: BTD6_Maker

I do NOT want LYLO here if I can help it. At this point, I'm thinking Wisdom/Fitz slot + BTD6. Wisdom's posts D1 were.... off base and wrong. While Wisdom can be argumentative, I don't think he ends up that wrong as town.

Needless to say, all three scum are in BTD6 (conf) and Batoru/Grey or Fitz/Sick/Wisdom slot.

[Aj The Epic]

Also, note that Dunn passes off a negative utility role to Pisskop before going down, without realizing he's about to get caught. This indicates a push from Dunn next day was supposed to go to Pisskop. I don't think scum let scum!Pisskop hold a piece that makes him even easier to die with.

[Aj The Epic]

So what about the idea that pisskop SHOULD vote for Nos then in a scum v town in basically a vacuum worth of information? It'd almost be against his wincon in that situation to vote for scum!pisskop to vote for Dunn.

[Aj The Epic]

I don't see a point of no lynching today. It's either me or Prism who dies tonight, and you're left with the same challenge. Also, it doesn't seem like ANYONE wants to go out of there way to lynch anyone but BTD6 first. So why the hell would we honestly wait a day to do so? It might not make a difference in amount of days left but it's not a huge fucking mystery who dies if we wait. It's not a huge mystery who gets lynched either.

[Aj The Epic]

Pfft

That game was lost regardless (since BTD6 was dying no matter what). However, I do want pisskop to tell me why he voted Dunn over Nos in the 1v1. It made no sense tbh.