Mini 1869- camn's revenge GAME OVER!
-
-
mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
- False Prophet
- False Prophet
- Posts: 16670
- Joined: October 7, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
Hey.
VOTE: Nachomamma8.
Dead serious here.
I'm entering in a 1v1 with Nacho.
Like. If he flips town POWER lynch me here.
I was informed that role assignment wasn't random this game.
Pine knows me to be a stellar scum player and not quite as strong a town player, yet I wasn't one of his picks for the scumteam.
But unless I massively misunderstood the game's nature: Pine did in fact get a choice in at least ONE scumbuddy, if not all three. (Something about a draft order.)
He didn't select me.
I refuse to believe he allowed both me and Nacho to be town.
So lynch me, lynch Nacho, doesn't matter who you lynch first but Nacho is scum.
Guaranteed.-
-
mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
- False Prophet
- False Prophet
- Posts: 16670
- Joined: October 7, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
Like.
I realize this playerlist is mostly made up of newer players.
People with joindates in the, what, 2015-2016 range? Mostly like that.
You guys don't understand the history Pine, Nacho, and I have together as players. We were playing games together before you were in your mafia parents' wombs. Granddaddies and grandmommies of the game in comparison to most of you. Fuck, even if you're an alt chances are that you're still too new to remember us in our prime. The 2011-2013 range in particular was Pine's first prime. (He left and came back two or three times.)
Pine was my original rival in games, presumably the reason why I didn't actually draw scum. (Which I'm taking as a huge fucking slight against me because he knows how much I would have wanted to be his scumbuddy here.) We fought endless times in games. He, along with Nacho, was one of my first friends upon his return to the site, in spite of him consistently creaming me in games where he drew mafia and I drew town. There's dozens of games spanning YEARS of history. Not one or two. Like, more games than y'all have played your entire mafia career on mafiascum, number of games.
Now granted! Pine and I haven't actually played together in years. Or contacted each other much since then. But the point still remains true all the same: if anyone knows who Pine would pick this game, it's me. And I am telling you, 100%. Pine would NEVER let Nacho be town this game. Because while Pine as scum might be able to beat me, beating Nacho? Much harder for him to do.-
-
mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
- False Prophet
- False Prophet
- Posts: 16670
- Joined: October 7, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
Like. That role? Probably a Godfather. There's alternatives, of course, like a standard Roleblocker. But Pine is an older player. His ideas of what kind of roles are used in the site meta are years out of date. I know he likes Godfathers because I know him as a person and I swear to god his choice was either a Godfather (most likely) or a roleblocker (less likely but still possible).
Roles we now know to be commonplace like ascetic and ninja weren't used much in his heyday, so they wouldn't have been his pick.
And I tell you right here and right now. If Pine also got to choose which member of his scumteam got what role, he'd choose Nacho for the power role especially if it was the godfather. So I'm telling you. He chose Nacho as his first pick. From there, I'm not as certain. I know he didn't pick me even though a Nacho-mastina scumteam would have dominated.
But I sure as fuck wasn't drafted by camn. camn has absolutely NO reason to draft me as a player. As far as I can remember, we've never actually played together. I can see Nacho as being drafted by camn, sure...but that would require Nacho to have not been Pine's first pick on the draft, when he absolutely WOULD have been.-
-
mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
- False Prophet
- False Prophet
- Posts: 16670
- Joined: October 7, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
So in the last three months, Pine has played with: drealmerz, TheRealGin-N-Tonic, Secret Agent Jin, drealmerz/Secret Agent Jin again, drealmerz a third time, and Aeronaut.
I only did a quick search, so let me know if I missed any. (Because this is a really fucking huge thing: missing any is problematic towards analysis.)
Knowing this, I can say: pisskop, SirCakez, Prism, and BTD6_maker are all basically conftown. They haven't played with Pine recently as far as I know, and they're too young to have played with Pine in his glory days.
Now, I just realized Fate is a player in this game. I think that Fate is a player both Pine and camn would bid on because Fate is literally the god of mafiascum in how he destroys whichever alignment is in opposition to him. He's basically a really good candidate for the GOAT thread in that he dominates as scum and decimates scum as town. camn knows this, and Pine knows this, so both had reason to go for him.
I realize that this somewhat-weakens my Nacho-is-scum stance, because it comes to who Pine bid on first. I can guarantee you: because I wasn't Pine's first bid, Pine's first bit absolutely MUST have been one of Nacho/Fate. I still think Nacho.
So! Let's work from there.
Nacho/Fate has one scum and one town in there.
That leaves two scum in:
Secret Agent Jin, TheRealGin-N-Tonic, Monokuma (Pine might not have played with them, but they're the only hydra in the game and Pine might have drafted them for that reason alone), drealmerz, and Aeronaut.
I'll have to investigate those games to see what alignments those players were and how good they were, but I do have some lead already.-
-
mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
- False Prophet
- False Prophet
- Posts: 16670
- Joined: October 7, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
^Strong scum candidate.
^Strong scum candidate.In post 25, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:Fuck these mind games already-
-
mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
- False Prophet
- False Prophet
- Posts: 16670
- Joined: October 7, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
I mean, while I've had other rivals on the site, he was my first frenemy, so.In post 29, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:Pine is this the Mastin you told me about?
I believe that goes two ways, too.-
-
mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
- False Prophet
- False Prophet
- Posts: 16670
- Joined: October 7, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
Strongman falls under the category of "roles not common when Pine was at his prime".In post 37, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:I think he's got a strongman tbh.
So no.
Pine doesn't pick strongman.
It's a Godfather.
Outside chance of Roleblocker.
But really, just a Godfather.-
-
mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
- False Prophet
- False Prophet
- Posts: 16670
- Joined: October 7, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
Here, have a readslist.
ONE OF: Fate/Nachomamma (Fate?)
Btd6_maker
pisskop
SirCakez
Prism
drealmerz
Monokuma
Secret Agent Jin
The RealGin-N-Tonic
Aeronaut
THE OTHER OF: Nachomamma/Fate (Nacho?)-
-
mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
- False Prophet
- False Prophet
- Posts: 16670
- Joined: October 7, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
ONE OF: Fate/Nachomamma (Fate?)
Btd6_maker
pisskop
SirCakez
Prism
Vaxkiller
drealmerz
Monokuma
Secret Agent Jin
The RealGin-N-Tonic
Aeronaut
THE OTHER OF: Nachomamma/Fate (Nacho?)
Realized I was missing one. Vaxkiller, I believe, falls under the "lack of experience" category as far as I could quickly find.-
-
mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
- False Prophet
- False Prophet
- Posts: 16670
- Joined: October 7, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
Also, I should probably mention that right now there's a softclaim or two I REALLY want to make--things that Pine wouldn't get, but at least one other player would. I can't give them yet, though, because one of said players in question would be Nacho. Who has a 50% chance of being conftown and a 50% chance of being confscum. I lean towards Pine picking Nacho first, but I don't know for sure. While in THEORY we could wait for nights to sort this out (when one dies via nightkill, lynch the other), but that might take a couple of night phases to actually happen by which point I'd probably be dead and that'd be less-than-ideal.
I think the simplest solution here is to just line up lynches. Lynch Nacho today. He flips town, you lynch me. I'll flip town, but then D3 you lynch Fate and 100% guarantee you, you'll have lynched scum.
He flips town, then while I'm not exactly conftown, Fate is. Any and all power we have should be directed towards keeping Fate alive at that point.-
-
mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
- False Prophet
- False Prophet
- Posts: 16670
- Joined: October 7, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
(There's at least two references I could make. One of them is an AP-modded game. Nacho wouldn't be able to tell which one by just this message though.)-
-
mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
- False Prophet
- False Prophet
- Posts: 16670
- Joined: October 7, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
What can I say, I'mIn post 74, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:So mastin, what you propose is to not actually scum hunt but bob for apples?Piningfor more info.-
-
mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
- False Prophet
- False Prophet
- Posts: 16670
- Joined: October 7, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
Because this game is explicitly not normal.In post 75, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:I don't see why playing the game normal would be less beneficial than this crackpot theory you got going on.
Pine got to control his scumteam.
Assuming he just used random.org to roll the die for his scumteam is an inherently flawed and faulty assumption.
Maybe for a third pick, I can see him POSSIBLY doing that. He'd have two players he really wanted scum and/or two players he really didn't want camn making town, so after that it becomes possible in theory for his last, third, pick to be random. But even there I'm being extra-generous. The most likely thing for Pine to do is to pick each member individually, most likely because he knows of them from past experience.
He had three chances to pick me; he did not.
That tells me a lot about the setup he'd go for right then and there. (Keeping in mind camn wouldn't have picked me as town because she doesn't know me.)
So yes.
I am playing non-randomly. I am making non-random assumptions. Because this game is, explicitly, non-random. As a result, I am assuming Pine picked players he is familiar with and would trust to carry the game. I also assumed he would pick players he'd want to deny the town from having in their grasp. Yet I also know that camn has at least vaguely similar experiences to Pine in regards to the most major of the players here: Fate and Nacho.
Ergo, one is scum because Pine got first dibs on the draft and would have selected one of them...
...And the other is town because camn would have selected one of them as her first pick for town.
And the rest of the scumteam is made up of other such players Pine knows of and would trust.
Aeronaut pinged as a possibility, and so did you. Your actions thusfar in the game have only served to solidify this.-
-
mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
- False Prophet
- False Prophet
- Posts: 16670
- Joined: October 7, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
Like, I've never played a game with TheRealGin-N-Tonic before.
But.
He looks like obvscum.
So I'm pretty sure. He's just actually scum, and that this isn't merely a playstyle thingy here.-
-
mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
- False Prophet
- False Prophet
- Posts: 16670
- Joined: October 7, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
ONE OF: Fate/Nachomamma (Fate?)
Btd6_maker
Prism
pisskop
SirCakez
Vaxkiller
drealmerz
Monokuma
Secret Agent Jin
Aeronaut
The RealGin-N-Tonic
THE OTHER OF: Nachomamma/Fate (Nacho?)-
-
mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
- False Prophet
- False Prophet
- Posts: 16670
- Joined: October 7, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
Fun fact: last time I saw Pine as scum was in LQ's game. I wasn't reading knowing who the scum were. I never read D1. But basically from the first post of D2, I looked at him and I was like, "Yep. He's scum."
The last time we played together was Duck Tales, where I nailed the entire scumteam D1. (If not for a modkill, game would have been a perfect town sweep. I also successfully watched the nightkill, but thanks to a ninja, got no result.)
Before that, Street Racers London. (Fuck multiball, by the way. Also, I softclaimed watcher by referencing Duck Tales, and my townread on Pine was because I thought he got the reference and didn't nightkill me even knowing I was a watcher...when it turned out he missed the softclaim altogether and had no clue I was referencing that game. )
Before that, Enemy of my Enemy is my Enemy. (Open multiball on the other hand is fine. )
Before that, Pine had replaced out of this game, but it's up there with Tales of You in being the ultimate case of "I fucking told you so" with me being the mylo mislynch and yet having named the entire scumteam and laid out exactlywhythey were the scumteam. (Pine's slot was scum, and I knew his slot was scum. I also knew AP had a hider guilty, but nobody listened to me.)
Before that, this abysmal game.
Before that, I inherited a fucked-over scumteam. (Like, I was the last member alive. A prior member of my scumteamstole the fakeclaim from my role PM, and I wasn't given flavor from my scumbuddy's fakeclaim so I was left there UNABLE TO FLAVOR CLAIM properly in a HEAVILY FLAVORED GAME. I spent literally hours researching Batman, comparing him to Aquaman, my fakeclaim, and then comparing Aquaman info to my fakeclaim info, and trying to bullshit up a Batman fakeclaim FROM SCRATCH. Needless to say, was not amused. Also fuck multiball. Which caused Pine to win. Frustratingly enough, because I correctly named him as Marvel-scum. And he was the only one of them I caught!)
Before that, like literally one of the only games in which Pine was town where I was scum, Good vs Evil, Chaos vs Law. Pine was despicably-apathetic Chaotic Good. (None of the Chaotic Good players, save Regfan, deserved to win because they didn't give any fucks about that game at all. It's just that the Lawful Evil players played even worse, including making a nightkill which fucked my scumteam over. At the time, I was not a good scum player. Mastermind of Sin was the scum leader, and they killed him, forcing me to be solo-scum. That game's literally the first scumgame of mine where I evolved my play into its more or less modern form. Still lost, though, because in spite of my best efforts, the Lawful Good players were DAMN good at the game and deserved to win.)
Before that, this lulzy game, where as a cop my top choices were Pine/MoI, I replaced in at night, picked one of them, was killed, and it turned out both were mafia but they ended up losing thanks to a miscalculation on the part of some antitown player (forget which faction) that allowed for the game-winning crosskill to occur. (In short, I did literally nothing, got killed, and still won.)
Before that, one of a rare few games where we were both town, Mob Money. In mylo, Pine mislynched me.
Before that, we get into games that were damaged by the rollback, so lots of lost history around that point in time. Real shame, since that's the mastina-Pine primetime.
But hell, might as well mention this gem of a game, AKA, "the game in which town lynched only one scum and yet won anyway", with a second town-controlled death via the N1 vig, with literally every other scumkill (all four of them) being from the scum. (In other words, my entire faction was wiped out by the other scumteam at night.) Other games of note: the game where scum claimed bodyguard, I CC'd, and I successfully protected a cop Pine allowing him to guilty the last scum, and Underground Mafia, where I named the entire scumteam in my first post, laid out a detailed step by step methodical process to guarantee the town won, this process wasn't properly conveyed to the thread, and so Pine (as a replacement) fucked it up by lynching the player I said not to lynch and letting the player I was correctly scumreading win the game. (Of course, I was triple-confirmed town so nobody thought I was killed because I named the scumteam in my first post. Even though I did. Okay, technically, second, but it was first game content.)
I mean there are other games with Pine of course but not ones I'd particularly like to be reminded of.-
-
mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
- False Prophet
- False Prophet
- Posts: 16670
- Joined: October 7, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
Yes, I can.In post 85, Prism wrote:Can you explain why he is obvscum, without using the point I just made?
No, I won't.
I suggest reading what content he has provided this game thusfar, compared to the content of everyone else. Perhaps that way, you can see what I have seen. If not, then I'll explain at a later time at my convenience.-
-
mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
- False Prophet
- False Prophet
- Posts: 16670
- Joined: October 7, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
I don't recall saying this at any point.In post 86, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:So you're telling me you scum read me for not having any knowledge of the history between Pine and his other compatriots and then also not agreeing with your theory
Exactly, and yet I wasn't drafted for being scum in spite of me having a VERY strong habit of working well with Nacho (Calcifer might not be the greatest hydra of all time, but it's definitely in the top ten, if not top five), and literally no history at all of working with Fate.You have to realize that if Pine could pick the scum team, that means he's picking the players who he thinks could work together as their own unit, regardless if Pine himself was in the game or not.
Soyeah.-
-
mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
- False Prophet
- False Prophet
- Posts: 16670
- Joined: October 7, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
You.In post 94, Prism wrote:If you're worrying that you've already ratted out the whole team, have no fear, I'm talking about Pine.
I like you.
Don't take this the wrong way, but it'll break my heart if Pine liked you.-
-
mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
- False Prophet
- False Prophet
- Posts: 16670
- Joined: October 7, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
You don't have to be obvscum to everyone.In post 100, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:If I'm this obvscum then why in the fuck would Pine pick me?
Fuck, I can give you the PMs I sent Pine when he returned to the site.
He flat-out asked me: "What the fuck is with the trashy quality of the 2016 players? And to a lesser extent, the 2015 ones?"
Shit you not, if I switched accounts I could pull them up though Pine if he's feeling extra generous will flat-out confirm he said as such to me.
The quality of play has gone downhill in Pine's opinion, such that players who are obvscum to people like me...aren't obvscum to their contemporaries, because their contemporaries have forgotten some of the basic fundamentals which we veterans know so well. In short: while you're obvscum to me, you don't have to be obvscum to the rest of the thread.
Especially not when--and these are your own words, mind you--In post 57, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:Hey Mastin fun fact, I got a nom for a team scum game with Pine in my first game on this site.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=69088 (I'm blawb who signed under /Gin and then took over the hydra D2)
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=69768 This time I'm IC and Pine was scum, Pine won
I'd say "got a Scummy nom for performance" qualifies as "part of a team Pine thinks would work together well as a unit", no?In post 86, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:You have to realize that if Pine could pick the scum team, that meanshe's picking the players who he thinks could work together as their own unit, regardless if Pine himself was in the game or not.-
-
mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
- False Prophet
- False Prophet
- Posts: 16670
- Joined: October 7, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
Yeah well the only way I can't outguess you is, quite literally, if you used random.org to just pop three random names into your scumteam.In post 105, Pine wrote:It's cute that you guys think you can outguess me.
Literally anything else, and I can. Call it rival power. (I actually have a character in my webcomic describe this at some point, where basically they talk about how rivals tend to know things about each other that even their best friends don't. Rival insight. I wish I could find a trope for it, it's definitely a common one.)
Of course, I don't actually NEED to outguess you. Just outplay you. And with you as literal confirmed scum, the easy half of my job is done.-
-
mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
- False Prophet
- False Prophet
- Posts: 16670
- Joined: October 7, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
In post 111, Pine wrote:Christ, Mastina, we've played a lot together. You didn't even mention some of the really old games.
^There's a reason I'd rather not be reminded of those older games.In post 106, mastina wrote:I mean there are other games with Pine of course but not ones I'd particularly like to be reminded of.-
-
mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
- False Prophet
- False Prophet
- Posts: 16670
- Joined: October 7, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
Hi!In post 114, drealmerz7 wrote:HIIII! *waves in face enthusiastically*
You don't know me, but I'm a reviewer who actually reads games I review some of which you've been in so I know you! Well you've interacted with me but never really in a true game sense. The point I'm making is that you're town here and you'll quickly find out that while your enthusiasm is great, and in fact I really like your posting and hope you continue to keep it up, your efforts are best directed elsewhere.
My preference for today would be Nacho, but I'll lynch TheRealGin-N-Tonic if I can't strongarm that through.
Of course, Aeronaut's also a lynch I'd endorse, but I don't actually anticipate him getting much in the way of pressure so I don't really think it's necessary to pursue him today.
Now that we've been properly introduced, with due respect...fuck off. <3-
-
mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
- False Prophet
- False Prophet
- Posts: 16670
- Joined: October 7, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
Case'n'point that you don't know me.In post 126, drealmerz7 wrote:it's unfortunate your scum game isn't as refined, you should play more
My scumgame is the most refined of any player on mafiascum. There's a damn good reason I was nominated for Don Corelone on consecutive years. (I lost both times, but I was nommed all the same.) You'll never find a player more self-conscious about their own meta than me. You'll never see a player who better knows what she can do, what she can't do, what she does and can't replicate/hide as an alignment, and what she does that can be replicated/hidden as an alignment*.
There's a reason why I take elements from my scumgame when playing town. No seriously. I deliberately take elements from my scumgame into my towngame. Rather than vice-versa. You know why I take elements from my scumgame into my towngame, rather than elements of my towngame into my scumgame? Because my scumgame needs nothing to improve; my towngame needs desperately to improve.
About once every year or two, I'll crave a scum game to show off my skills, demonstrate this first-hand. "You think I suck as scum? HA. Well, HERE YA GO, THIS GAME SHOWS YOU WHY I DON'T." Now while I did come in this game quite frankly expecting to be scum, I don't actually have a need to show off my skills. This game was recent enough that I can say, "that's what I can do as scum". Where in spite of beingconfirmed scum, our lover didn't vote for us for days. DAYS. Despite us being 100% confirmed absolutely to be confscum. We had them so thoroughly fooled (and that was all me), it took them a long time to accept it. I mean, yeah, we didn't win that game: we were, after all, CONFIRMED SCUM. There was no way to wiggle out of it. But the fact that we almost did in spite of the game being literally impossible for us to win should tell you something about my manipulation skills as scum.
So there's damn good reason I prefer town: because my towngame? Yeah, not so stellar, that. It's what I need to improve on, so it's my preferred alignment and also what I am most enthusiastic about. As scum, it's generally a given: "Oh, I'm going to win this game". Or lose it purely by a combination of bad luck and unfortunate mechanics in play, as it so happened, but close enough. As town, I have to fight every step of the way.
No, because I am insanely mislynchable as town. Like, ridiculously mislynchable as town. Like, I get mislynched more often than I live. Like, basically the only time I don't get mislynched is when I'm either nightkilled and/or conftown of some sort. You can push a wagon through on me if you wanted to. You also can't be lynched because fuck that, I'll fight every step of the way to keep you alive.I will likely direct efforts elsewhere since tunneling on you on D1 is about 100000x more likely to get me lynched more than you
Or Aeronaut, or Nacho.where do you think I should direct them? TRGNT, eh?
Quite the opposite. Fuck focusing on Btd6, Fate, Monokuma, pisskop, Prism, SirCakez, or Vaxkiller. All that'll do is serve to demonstrate what we already know: you're town, they're town, your efforts there would be town-town, and thus a waste of time.anywhere but you, I'm sure
*Speaking of which, time for the obligatory plug of the flowchart. What flowchart, you may ask? This one, of course!mastin2 wrote:mastin2 wrote:Bulbasaur Commonwealth wrote:Here, for your reading pleasure, might as well quote this.In post 24, mastin2 wrote:
Actually...I have.In post 3, SleepyKrew wrote:I think everyone should make one of these. Especially mastin.
I've been meaning to post it, too. It's about a year out of date, though, but I started compiling a way around Mafia with the Quickness 2 called, "How to read Mastin: the flowchart".
Some of them are out of date thanks to contextual meta shifts, but most of them still apply.Spoiler: Stuff about itBulbasaur Commonwealth wrote:(Note of course that the flowchart is never 100% accurate. It's impossible, literally impossible, to display all of them in a single game since many of them are in fact slightly contradictory, but the point is to see as many as possible and if the majority matches town or scum. This chart has been in play for quite a while, now, and to this date, in spite of no active attempts to uphold it and some attempts as scum to subvert it, remains highly relevant to my play. It goes to prove my point, though: scuMastin always has this laser-like focus. Anything Goes in particular, until I faked having my confidence shattered, I was pushing for a specific lynch. In games like Resistance where I was the last living scum in lylo, I wove a narrative specific to one player being scum because I held focus. In my entire scumgame career, holding focus has done nothing but serve me well. Losing focus has done nothing but screw me over. Because guess what? People like focus. They like confidence. They love to see assurance in a read. They want to have a figure be charismatic and to follow. It's an inherent part of people's nature. That's why tunneling is so prevalent, because it works DAMN good and well to get a lynch. People hate doubt. When someone is calling everyone town/scum in rapid circles, AKA circlejerking, people think it's scum trying to mislynch anyone. They see desperation and attribute it to being scum. They don't see a town player desperately trying to figure out the game. They see a scum player that is trying to find options. So damn fucking straight. Maybe someday I'll flail as scum. It could in theory be this game. But in practice? Fuck no. As scum I'd push a lynch through; as town, here I am without a clue.)
^That's how. ('Course, the flowchart was developed for single-ball games. I actually have no clue myself how well it does or doesn't hold up in multiball.)Bulbasaur Commonwealth wrote:(I really need to also add a section in there about explicitly blowing up.
I don't think I've ever thrown f-bombs around as scum freely, aside from some trolling in L4D when I literally claimed scum in-thread once I realized Molla had a guilty on me.
As town, you'll note, I go absolutely ballistic, and for damn fucking good reason. Lynching me has never done a town favors, ESPECIALLY not in the lategame.)
Not included: "Is she doing anything?"mastin2 wrote:(I just realized that an item not on the flowchart but which should be is how I explain my reads:
"Does she explain her reads in crystal clarity?
No-->Almost certainly town, though you can proceed as a precaution just in case.
...Maybe?-->Probably town, but proceed anyway.
Yes-->Proceed.")
Yes-->Well, go read what she's doing, dummy!
No-->She's probably fighting a flake.
Doesn't tell you alignment, but is useful to have on there anyway.-
-
mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
- False Prophet
- False Prophet
- Posts: 16670
- Joined: October 7, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
In post 141, SirCakez wrote:We have literally no clue of how Pine picked up his players,Wrong.
Yes we fucking do.
It's called knowing Pine as a person.
Psychological profile of Pine, as a player. His likes. His dislikes. His weaknesses. His strengths. His habits. His friends. His playing history.
This game is explicitly not random. So treating it as if it were random will give you nothing but a bad time. And I am telling you: in spite of the fact that I've known Pine for longer than anyone else in this game, save Nacho, and in spite of me being Pine's oldest friend and thus knowing him better than the rest of you schmucks, he didn't draft me...and while you have only my word at that...as soon as I flip town (and I will in fact be flipping town), you BETTER FUCKING BELIEVE me when I say that is significant and means...
...That Pine left the person who is basically the Pine expert around to be town. I know Pine. YOU don't. YOU have no experience with him. But I have more experience with Pine than any other player here. And my experience transcends time. I know Pine from the past in his glory days. I know Pine from his brief return to the site after having flaked. And I know Pine in the present, too, because not only have I seen him in games, but I've also talked to him outside of games. Given him advice. Shown him how site meta has shifted. I know Pine on every level that you do not.
So when I tell you that Pine did something: you better fucking believe that Pine did in fact do that thing.
There's no think."I think Pine would pick him as scum" is scummy af.
None.
Just knowledge.
Simple, fundamental knowledge.
Of who Pine would pick.
With him having not picked me, there's only a select few he would have picked.
Yeah that's a shitty post all-around so citation needed.I think the Real Gin N Tonic (mainly because of 131)-
-
mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
- False Prophet
- False Prophet
- Posts: 16670
- Joined: October 7, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
Huh. Weird. I swear I've heard this reasoning before.In post 149, Aeronaut wrote:Mastin, I respect your reasoning on how Pine would draft, but I also feel like Pine's trying to fuck with us. Your strong reaction to not being picked and assumption that nacho MUST be scum just makes me think that it could have easily been done on purpose like that, to get you two at each other throats.
Oh yeah. That's because I have.In post 27, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:I'm actually going to argue the fact that if both of you are steller scums, he'd make sure both are town purely for the fact that he'd know you'd be at each others throats.
Yes, he is. But while he was better at it than I was at seeing through it when we first met each other almost six years ago, he stagnated whereas I got better. The only reason that Pine's considered stellar in manipulation is because townplay of the site meta went to shit in the last couple of years. He's still stagnant. He hasn't improved in the last few years. I was able to tell just from a casual glance at a game he was scum. Because he's still the exact same scum player he was years ago. He's better than most players, sure. But most players are shit. Pine can fool people who aren't familiar with him. Pine can fool people who don't know how he thinks, how he operates. But he can't fool people who intimately know him.Pine is also someone who strikes me as good at making you think what he wants you to think.
Also justsayin this was a scumpost through-and-through.
The first section echoing TheRealGin-N-Tonic. That section having been bad in the first place. Writing off Pine's choices as unreadable, when the whole fucking point of this game is outguessing Pine. (Literally this game is outguess Pine: the game. That's the whole fucking theme of the game, and Aeronaut is telling usnotto do that, to treat this game as if it were normal...when that's exactly what Pine would want.) Saying Pine is unpredictable. The whole Nacho/mastina bit. And most of all, the vote on drealmerz, who is basically the most obvtown of the players who have history with Pine.-
-
mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
- False Prophet
- False Prophet
- Posts: 16670
- Joined: October 7, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
Actually it's incredibly long-sighted. Part of my plan, I guess you could say.In post 153, Monokuma wrote:
This is a pretty shortsighted conclusion coming from you!In post 48, mastina wrote:Knowing this, I can say: pisskop, SirCakez, Prism, and BTD6_maker are all basically conftown. They haven't played with Pine recently as far as I know, and they're too young to have played with Pine in his glory days.
This is basically my way of saying that those players get a temporary free pass, for as long as I live and we still have 2 or more scum alive. I won't consider lynching them prior to that point. I have good reason for offering this immunity. Of course they could be scum. But they aren't. And I'm not touching them, least of all on day one.-
-
mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
- False Prophet
- False Prophet
- Posts: 16670
- Joined: October 7, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
Because it's the case.In post 155, Aeronaut wrote:Why?
By trying to figure out the read on your own.Ok, well how are we expected to ever do anything with your read of him if you're not going to give us a reason why?
And from this, forming your own read.
And viewing by your own lens.
And reflecting by that.
You know, standard stuff that you'd have to do anyway?-
-
mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
- False Prophet
- False Prophet
- Posts: 16670
- Joined: October 7, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
Guessing implies that there is a lack of knowledge behind the action.In post 158, Monokuma wrote:What about your desire to lynch Nacho isn't 100% unadulterated organic non-GMOguessing?
It implies randomly taking a shot in the dark.
This?
A clearly illuminated path with a laser sight.
Kinda hard to miss.-
-
mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
- False Prophet
- False Prophet
- Posts: 16670
- Joined: October 7, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
You know what wifom is?In post 164, Aeronaut wrote:Why? Because Pine knows we would of thought that and it's all WIFOM.
Real wifom is?
Do you want to truly know and understand what wifom is?
I'll tell you what wifom is.
But if you don't want to use that definition, I'll tell you what definition you can use: the game is out-thinking the thinker.Spoiler: Wifom is...
Now you tell me that Pine cannot be out-thought.
I say bullshit, he absolutely can.
Pine's not a moron.
He knows what people think of him: Some amazing scum player who is a mastermind. A genius. He isn't predictable. He is hard to catch. So his moves aren't going to be able to be deciphered. This is what Pine knows people think of him. So Pine will just do what makes the most sense: just go with the choices which are most optimal.
It's like nightkills in any game.
This isn't Pine-specific. It's userbase in general. Scum know that towns won't do NKA. They know that towns think NKA is wifom. So what do scum do? They don't do the wifom kill which is suboptimal for them. They make the kill which most benefits them, safe and secure in the knowledge that any NKA done which incriminates them will be written off as nothing more than wifom.
Ergo, in this game, Pine knows that people are going to assume that he made wifomy choices. Yet, wifomy choices are suboptimal for him: they lack team synergy and they lack strength of a scumgame. So, by making wifomy choices, Pine not only would be doing what the town expects of him, he would also be leaving himself with a much, much weaker scumbase.
So instead, he just makes the most obvious choices, safe and secure in the knowledge that because they are obvious, anyone arguing they are scum for being obvious will be written off on "but wifom!", all the while having built...a scumteam that has both synergy and strong players which Pine knows will be able to play and function well.
Really not that hard to understand.-
-
mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
- False Prophet
- False Prophet
- Posts: 16670
- Joined: October 7, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
No, he shouldn't, which is why the fact that he did is one reason Aeronaut is scum.In post 166, Monokuma wrote:But really, look at him. You think that's scum?-
-
mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
- False Prophet
- False Prophet
- Posts: 16670
- Joined: October 7, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
Oh yes. There certainly is. And you're gonna love this.In post 173, SirCakez wrote:There's definitely credit to be had in bussing him.
Ihavebussed Nacho before.
...A grand total of once. Pine was in that game, too!
It was called Mafia on Werewolf Island.
Funny story, there.
I bussed both my scumbuddies, Nacho AND T-Bone that game.
I also set up a softclaim of cop, CONVINCED that there was no actual cop in the game. Why I thought that, god only knows, but I was absolutely CONVINCED there was no cop in the game.
So much so, that when a player did in fact claim cop...as the last member of the mafia, I counterclaimed the cop, insisting said cop could only be a werewolf because I legit believed they were a werewolf fakeclaiming cop, just as I was mafia fakeclaiming cop.
...Turned out, the cop was a cop.
The next day, I truthfully claimed that I was a doctor. (I was a mafia doctor.) I truthfully claimed the above: that I was convinced that there was no cop in the game, and that the cop was a werewolf fakeclaiming. These were both 100% true facts. And yet, on suspicion of me being a WEREWOLF (the faction the town was interested in lynching), they lynched me, because they thought for sure that I wouldn't have double-bussed and that I was therefore a werewolf lying through my ass.
And funnily enough, JUST after I was hammered, they realized, "Oh, shit. You're not scum-werewolf, are you? You were the last mafia scum, weren't you?" Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep.
That's my Nacho-bussing story right there.
And the wolves went on to sweep the game after that because the town REALLY didn't need a mafia lynch. They REALLY needed a werewolf lynch, I was swearing to them I wasn't a werewolf, they didn't believe I wasn't a werewolf even though I wasn't, so by lynching mafia they ended up losing the game.
Good times.-
-
mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
- False Prophet
- False Prophet
- Posts: 16670
- Joined: October 7, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
(Incidentally, that was one of the games which shaped my belief in exploiting third parties even malevolent ones. I didn't claim mafia for two reasons: fear of a modkill, and fear that any chance of escaping the noose would be thrown out by having done so and they'd lynch me because a scum lynch is a scum lynch. But had they asked if I was mafia BEFORE my lynch, rather than AFTER my lynch, at that point I probably would have just honestly said, "Yes. Very stupid, idiotic mafia, but mafia all the same. I realize you need to lynch me at some point, but right now I REALLY don't want the wolves to win and if it's a choice between the wolves and you, I'd want you to win so I'd prefer to help you there and I can't do that if you lynch me." Who knows if that'd have worked or not though.)-
-
mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
- False Prophet
- False Prophet
- Posts: 16670
- Joined: October 7, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
(Also, that's basically one of the only games where I as scum got to lynch Pine! Who, otherwise, would be a choice nightkill of mine.)-
-
mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
- False Prophet
- False Prophet
- Posts: 16670
- Joined: October 7, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
Which is funny.In post 176, pisskop wrote:Mastina is another player people gravitate around when they dont need to.
Annoyingly enough, there's a consistent pattern to this.
When I specifically am not interested in people sheeping me, I have people who then proceed to sheep me, in spite of multiple times me insisting that I'm just pursuing my own thing, that I've got nothing real, that what I'm going after is probably wrong and I have zero confidence in it being right, with it simply being a best guess of mine.
When I specifically state I am aiming for people to sheep me, nobody does. They laugh. They go lolmastina. They call me scum. They call me names. And in the end, I get to watch the town loses and go, "I fucking warned you, but nooooooooooooooooo" in postgame because nobody bothered to actually follow me when I asked them to.
And the funny thing is, the two seem to reinforce each other.
When I am right, people will point to those times I was right, as justification for following me even after I tell them not to.
When I am wrong, people will point to those times I was wrong, as justification for NOT following me even after I explain to them exactly why I didn't want to be followed then but I DO want to be followed now.
It's pretty headbangingly painful to watch play out, time and time again.
Guess which one I'm in right now?-
-
mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
- False Prophet
- False Prophet
- Posts: 16670
- Joined: October 7, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
Fuck your claim of being able to do this and recognize that *I* am the one who actually can. Pine was one of my first, and closest friends, and bitter rivals, and nobody knows how he operates better than I do. You lack the game experience and you lack the personal connection. I have both. That's not arrogance speaking. That's just pure simple fact. I have the most games with Pine of any player. I have the most personal connection to Pine of any player.In post 177, drealmerz7 wrote:I can soul-read pine pretty much, yep, go figure
You can assume that Pine wouldn't let me be town given these factors--that's fair.
You can assume that with Pine not letting me town given these factors and having made me scum, that when I say something I have manipulated it towards a scum agenda.
But the simple fact is, I am town. So I am here to wreck Pine.
That being said: you're right on one thing.
It really is that simple, because he really does operate that way.he thought he'd fuck with us by not fucking with us for the draft choices and we'd spend whatever energy trying to figure that out would be his-fuck-with-us meanwhile he has simply chosen who he wants on his team, SIMPLE AS THAT
You just selected the wrong people for his team.
Guarantee you: since I wasn't his first pick, Nacho was.-
-
mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
- False Prophet
- False Prophet
- Posts: 16670
- Joined: October 7, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
It's a really rare thing.In post 187, Secret Agent Jin wrote:Does Mastina post these analytical posts a high majority of the time no matter alignment or is this a rare thing?
As scum I usually tend to be disinterested in the game because I just assume I'm going to win, but there's always exceptions: a game I feel I can't just autocruise to victory and need early towncred in. A game where the concept is something I absolutely adore and thus want to jump into instantly. Things like that will cause me to be active as scum.
As town I do tend to be slightly more enthusiastic because I have a challenge of proving I'm not incompetent. However, I don't usually share analysis early. That's ridiculously rare from me. My early enthusiasm takes form in other ways most commonly. Also, my towngame tends to suffer from apathy if I lack a plan, if I lack direction, so that can and will cause my activity to plummet sharply. Because of this, a highly active, analytical start to my game is really rare as either alignment.
The reason why it's happening here, though, should be self-evident enough: this is a game I am REALLY excited about. Like, I was excited about DEFCON, because I knew it was going to be a blast (ha) to play in, and I expected lolnukes to be flying everywhere and for me to die quickly and be left at that. But the excitement I felt for this game is an entirely different type of excitement, because here I actually get to show off my skills. I was thinking it'd be as scum, which I usually come in thinking anyway (most of my plans start as scum plans, and then when I draw town I'm forced to modify and adapt them to accommodate my alignment), but because it's town, I get to show you such beautiful things. Aspects of my play I didn't get to show off in Defcon, namely, me actually scumhunting. Me actually putting in real effort. My thought process. My psychological profiling at its finest. Strengths, weaknesses, meta behind the players, the whole works. And I get to play against Pine, my first mafia rival. My first frenemy. The guy I know better than almost any other player, especially as time has passed. (Early Pine games? Knew nothing about him. Later Pine games? Had intimately been exposed to his thought process, including hydraing with him.) I have reason to be this way as either alignment, though, so the judgment call on why I'm this way is yours to make.
Actually, no. Nacho and I could both be scum.She also said that both Nacho and herself cant be scum together for reasons she has explained multiple times.
It's FATE and Nacho who cannot both be scum, because whoever Pine didn't pick, camn would.
camn had no reason to draft me. So Pine absolutely COULD have picked me as scum.
Now, granted, if Nacho is scum as I feel he is, my push on him would probably make me be viewed as obvtown. But I'd be just that: obvtown, not conftown. Because there'd always be the possibility I bussed. (My lifespan this game is probably limited anyway though because scum will likely want me dead no matter what, so it won't take long for me to die.)
Actually not that far off, but you have to keep in mind that my mind is basically a gigantic bulletin board with pins and strings leading everywhere, so I keep it all in my brain. I don't take physical notes, except whenever I PM the mod. (Usually to convey info to the dead/spectator thread, like, "what the fuck my plan is right now". As town because I feel the need to justify my actions, as scum to gloat. Because as town I feel like I undergo the hero's journey, and as scum I feel like a supervillain.)I can see it now, a wall sized bulletin board with pins and strings leading everywhere. If she is town, i can see someone flipping an alignment she didnt produce so she corrects her massive read board to calculate in how they flipped. If she is scum, she has piles of notes to justify why her read was wrong and line up another lynch.
As town I try to map out every happenstance and see where things lead, balancing a series of possibilities versus probabilities. The way my mind works in a game is that, at all times, I am simultaneously right and wrong on everyone, because I both see everyone as scum and everyone as town. Because all are possible, I then have to work out which are the most likely: what is actually relevant, versus what is just worthless. What looks good, versus what actuallyisgood. What looks scummy, versus what actually comes from scum. I weigh every action, I look at things both microscopically and macroscopically, by seeing things on an individual level and also seeing them on the whole. I calculate the odds consistently, every step of the way, to come to conclusions, and from these conclusions, I form my plans.
As scum, I see strings. I see myself as the puppeteer. I see myself pulling at the select strings I need to manipulate people my way. I see the strings which control the system. I use situational awareness at its purest form, psychologically profiling each player to know their strengths and their weaknesses. (Keep in mind I often have more knowledge of a player than I'll admit to, because I use a ton of alts.) I know what each of them is likely to see. I know how each of them is likely to act. And I subtly push things so that they turn on each other, and direct actions so that they stay on each other, rather than realizing they're engaged in town-v-town arguments. If a townbloc forms without me in it, I exploit paranoia to break it apart. If a townbloc forms with me in it, I work to keep paranoia from forming and easily allow the townbloc to lynch town outside of said townbloc. If players scumread me--which I can tell when they will or will not--I use their scumread on me to my advantage. I paint our exchanges in a way which makes the rest of the town think they are townVtown, invalidating their valid points. I will churn out reads which they try to decipher: they correctly assume me to be scum, but assume my reads that I generate are geared towards survival, rather than the truth, which is...to mislead them. So they go scumreading players I want scumread, and townreading players I want townread, because I direct them to do so not by my actions, but by their own, by faulty assumptions they are wont to make.
So your description? A pretty apt one, I'd say.-
-
mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
- False Prophet
- False Prophet
- Posts: 16670
- Joined: October 7, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
This is a scumpost, by the way.In post 188, Aeronaut wrote:Well, besides his entrance, not really. I also don't really see it as auto-town either though. I see it as something he'd do in almost any scenario.
See if you can figure out why.-
-
mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
- False Prophet
- False Prophet
- Posts: 16670
- Joined: October 7, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
You.In post 203, pisskop wrote:Who's super town btdubs
Also drealmerz.
Prism's pretty great, too.
That should give you a mighty fine start.-
-
mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
- False Prophet
- False Prophet
- Posts: 16670
- Joined: October 7, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
Okay.In post 213, Monokuma wrote:Stop voting based on pregame speculation of who Pine would and wouldn't pick.
Here's non-spec reasons.
Iso me. Look for what I say on Aeronaut and TheRealGin-N-Tonic.
If that's not enough, go to iso them. Do a triple-iso even: overlay my posts with theirs, so you see what I talk about as I talk about it, in regards to them.
There.-
-
mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
- False Prophet
- False Prophet
- Posts: 16670
- Joined: October 7, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
Sorry, chum, but I've been around since before you were born. If one of us looks at all like an aspect of the other, it's you to me.In post 225, drealmerz7 wrote:mastina you sound like my alter-fucking-ego
And to be fair, I do recognize some of me in you.
Which is why I know telling you that you're wrong won't actually have any effect on you whatsoever, but oh well, I like doing so anyway because you never know, you might actually listen someday when you realize what I've been doing. But, nah. It's better to have been wrong and stood your ground than to back down and be a coward, right? Which is why you won't.-
-
mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
- False Prophet
- False Prophet
- Posts: 16670
- Joined: October 7, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
This is not a skill I have.In post 234, drealmerz7 wrote:with the additional skill of being able to town it up so much as scum
"But...you just laid out why you're a good scum player."
Yes. I am a good scum player. But it's not from being able to town it up so much as scum--towning it up as scum is, ironically, suicidal in the longterm. That sounds counterintuitive, but every god-tiered scum player recognizes that the best scumaren'tthe ones who make you think they are the towniest of town players. The best scum players are the players who you can reasonably deduce to be scum...and yet, for some reason you never decide to actually lynch them. There's always someone who's a higher priority. There's always someone who is a better target, who must be lynched before them. That is the mark of the god-tiered scum player.
And I'll tell you why: a scum player who towns it up? Is vulnerable to paranoia. Towns love paranoia. It only takes two days for it to build up. Even in a micro, that's viable. In a mini, still viable. In a large, you better believe it. Scum live off of exploiting town paranoia...which is a bit difficult to do if scum would be lynched THANKS to the paranoia. Scum do not want to be the towniest of town players, because then one of two things happens:
-The scum player cruises off of their early town credit, and paranoia builds that, "Hmm, maybe that player was scum, who towned it up early and is cruising on the towncred?"
-The scum player continues to town it up the whole time, and paranoia builds that, "This player has been towning it up the whole time, and yet they've never been nightkilled. Why?"
While the latter is easier to overcome as far as paranoia goes, it also requires a level of time, effort, and commitment which is beyond any level of reasonable. Staying town as scum is hard. REALLY hard. You have to further a scum wincon without looking like you are furthering a scum wincon, and all the while you have to look sincere and have believable stances which will hold up in hindsight, something that is near-impossible to maintain.
So, scum don't want to get themselves towned up early. That sets expectations of them that they cannot, absolutely, CANNOT continue to hold the whole game. So instead, the master-level scum players. The best of the best. Have mastered the skill of moderation: they know exactly when to post, and whennotto post. They know what to give, and what not to give. They know exactly how to stay below the top of obvtown players, and yet high enough in the hierarchy to avoid being in range of power roles that could fuck them over. (E.g. cop, vig, tracker.)
The master scum player is a masterful scum player not because it's impossible to spot them...but because it's impossible to actually lynch them. Because there's always better targets. Because there's always someone who deserves the lynch, deserves the vig, deserves the cop, more.
This is a skill Pine knows. This is a skill Nacho knows. This is a skill that we, as veteran players, mastered years ago. We can articulate this knowledge, because back in our day it was common understanding of how these things worked. Players nowadays, on the other hand, don't understand this as well. The best scum from the 2015-2016 range have an instinctive knowledge of what I'm saying here being true, but they'd never be able to explain it. They'd never attribute their victories, their skills, to this art, because they wouldn't know about it consciously. Yet on a subconscious level, they learned to harness it all the same, without actually knowing what it was.
Players like Nacho, Pine, and me, though, we can actively tell you exactly how it works. Especially me since explaining how moves work is kinda...my shtick.
What'll REALLY blow your mind is that your top-notch scumgame is just another day in the park for me as town, and that MY top-notch scumgame is in another league entirely. I already linked you to Green Day, but others? I'd encourage browsing Inorganic Chemistry (I literally cheekily scumclaimed my first post! And had the gall to claim it was a softclaim for a town role!), World of Warcraft (AP invited me to replace in, which told me he was asking me to be his scumbuddy and I said fuck yeah), Paranoia (in which I not only needed to beat the town but BEAT MY OWN SCUMTEAM TO WIN), Book of Shadows (Titus did most of the work, which is why I don't often remember this game as all I did was finish the job), Attack on Titan (a close loss, but one where I went from having ALL THREE WAGONS D1 ON SCUM at the time I replaced in to mislynching town D1), Left 4 Dead Mafia (in which I correctly predicted a cop would investigate me and rather than counterclaim the cop, I claimed scum, causing the entire town to think that the cop for the game was a fake because surely mastina wouldn't have let herself be lynched otherwise: basically the game where LYNCHING ME caused my team to win because I had specifically laid out a path to victory for my scumteam and told them to bus me), Resistance Mafia (I had an epic battle with RedCoyote at the end in lylo, which I lost), Chain of Command, Mind-Reader Mafia, this game (also modded by killerjester and also with AP where we dominated), and who can forget...the infamous Anything (fucking) Goes. There's also my first good scumgame, which I already mentioned was Good vs. Evil, Chaos vs. Law, but anything older than that's not entertaining to watch unless your definition of entertaining is watching me be HILARIOUSLY bad as scum.HOLY SHIT, mastina looks and sounds like me playing my top-notch scumgame
Because I know Pine and knowing that he didn't make me scum means that I know he made Nacho scum.tell us, why sign up to be in the pine revenge game and then offer yourself for a 1v1 on D1?
Also, site search "Mastin Gambit".
You'll find some pretty interesting things. (Well, presumably, if the site search actually works well enough.)
Son, if the game can't be broken by the end of day one, I aint doing it right. Also, it's not exactly like getting lynched D1 is plan A. Getting lynched is the consequence for if I am wrong, and something I intend to happen on D2. (Not D1.) Which gives me all of D2 to prepare for giving updated thoughts and whatnot.if you're town and know pine SO WELL, you would never want to give yourself up so early before being able to help your fellow townies through the game
It's not shit because you're almost right on stuff, but it's still shitty because you're misapplying it and ending up coming to the wrong conclusions.mastina, what do you think about my claim to have the growing ability to almost soul-read pine?
In short, your process is good enough where I'd say it's possible.
Your conclusions still need work.
Do tell.also, for how much you are claiming to be able to help us with the pine-figuring, you're not, you're just piling up the mountains of WIFOM for distribution as the game goes along
I've laid out not only why Pine would do the things he did, and not only why I think that Nacho is scum, but also showing players for being scum outside of that.
Now granted.
I haven't EXPLAINED.
Showing's different from explaining.
But I've SHOWED you players that are scum, outside of speccing. And then gone on to explain why Pine would do what he has.-
-
mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
- False Prophet
- False Prophet
- Posts: 16670
- Joined: October 7, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
Almost.In post 236, drealmerz7 wrote:so you're here to help, but, we've got to do it alone?
Think of it as...being a mentor who knows the answer, and can give it to the student, but who knows that just telling the student won't make them understand. The best way for the student to comprehend is to be given the path, and then work their way through it.
Think of it this way.
As a teacher I could tell you:
X + 1 = 4.
X + 1 - 1 = 4 - 1
X = 3.
This explains the process step by step...but the student might not accept the lesson.
Or, I could tell you:
"X + 1 = 4.
X is 3. Now, how did I know that?"
And suddenly the student is forced to work their way through it and figure that out. One teaches more than the other. And is therefore more useful than the other. So yes. I'm here to help. I will give you the answers. When you struggle, I will even give you clues as to the process. When continuing to struggle, I will make those clues continuously more explicit. But my expectation of you is always that you are meant to figure out the process on your own.
In the context of a mafia game, this is more than just me being an IC in a non-newbie game. It serves a distinct purpose beyond that, but for that, I'll leave it to you to figure out what the motivation behind my actions are. (No, it's not that as scum I'm incapable of generating my own reasoning. I'll tell you that. Now figure out what it actually is.)-
-
mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
- False Prophet
- False Prophet
- Posts: 16670
- Joined: October 7, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
New hydra or attempt to break the curse of Palisade?In post 240, Pine wrote:We should hydra after this.
(That's a funny story not even Pine knows the full extent of, but which I do. Palisade has been used by five people--including Nacho--in about that number of games. Of them, the only one which went well was the third party game and even there that was only scraping by the skins of our teeth via a fakeclaim D2 even though we were basically outed as nontown long before that for faking a post restriction in a game modded by someone who had an absolute LOATHING of post restrictions which we didn't know about and some other player brought up midway through D1 after we had been using the post restriction. That, being the BEST Palisade game, can give you an idea of how bad the hydra was.)-
-
mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
- False Prophet
- False Prophet
- Posts: 16670
- Joined: October 7, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
Okay!In post 244, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:Start pointing out how scummy shit people saidIn post 25, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:Fuck these mind games alreadyIn post 27, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:I'm actually going to argue the fact that if both of you are steller scums, he'd make sure both are town purely for the fact that he'd know you'd be at each others throats.In post 29, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:Even if it doesn't end up being mislynches, there will be tonnes of noise created by you two arguing.In post 35, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:Also I'm just going to lay it out there, as soon as ya'll say you're not with Pine, I'm just looking at it like distancing. It doesn't have to be announced that you're not on Pine's team, if town it's self-evident.In post 38, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:Hey Pine, can you do me a flavor?In post 40, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:I want a MyLo/LyLo rematch.In post 46, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:Damn..that's actually a really bad idea.In post 59, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:Hey Pine, you think we would have won the Hunger Games if it wasn't for those two strongmans?In post 65, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:My guess is dreal and SirCakesIn post 69, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:ur memz R trashIn post 71, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:Nacho/Mastin/Pine/4th scum or no? scum team and Mastin/nacho pulls an epic distancing play at the beginning of the game.In post 74, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:So mastin, what you propose is to not actually scum hunt but bob for apples?In post 75, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:The theory doesn't make sense at all and I don't see why playing the game normal would be less beneficial than this crackpot theory you got going on.In post 79, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:
Did you just say these two were on the same team?In post 55, drealmerz7 wrote:pine made a huge mistake letting nacho and prism team up I thinkIn post 86, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:So you're telling me you scum read me for not having any knowledge of the history between Pine and his other compatriots and then also not agreeing with your theory when:
1) From my perspective, by doing this PoE from the start, you allow easy mislynches and disallow people to form reads on players which isn't helpful later game
2) Pine is manipulative and if I can think to make all the player's he's gone way back with as town so they WIFOM lynch each other, I'd do it and I don't doubt he would either.
I just don't think you're thinking clearly here. It doesn't matter who Pine talks to because it's NAI. You have to realize that if Pine could pick the scum team, that means he's picking the players who he thinks could work together as their own unit, regardless if Pine himself was in the game or not.In post 93, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:Prism are you talking about me?In post 98, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:I'll be honest I don't care about speculation at allIn post 99, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:ALSOIn post 100, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:If I'm this obvscum then why in the fuck would Pine pick me?
At your request, the scummy shit people have said.In post 131, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:No I mean it's just cute that you think I'm scum. When I tell you I got nommed for a scummy award, it's because you wouldn't even think it was possible that I was scum, if I was scum this game. Especially when I haven't played with you as town, when you can't tell the difference, you're pretty much fucked.
I think I deserve a flash wagon-
-
mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
- False Prophet
- False Prophet
- Posts: 16670
- Joined: October 7, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
What I was saying was pretty clear.In post 265, Aeronaut wrote:So if you do something that looks like your scumgame, that's just your town game? Cool, I'll keep that in mind
And it was pretty clearly not that.
So no.
This is a fine case of a misrep and one reason why Aeronaut is scum.
Nope! Quite explicitly, he only chose one older player. We've got three in this game and three only: me, Fate, and Nacho. He didn't choose me. I believe he didn't choose Fate, though it's possible. I think he chose Nacho. Then camn chose Fate. And then he chose two newer players.Mastin, tell me honestly; do you think that Pine looked at this playerlist and blatantly picked only people were "older" players?
Namely: you, and TheRealGin-N-Tonic.-
-
mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
- False Prophet
- False Prophet
- Posts: 16670
- Joined: October 7, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
Funny story that.In post 268, Aeronaut wrote:Pine is not trying to help you win, don't you think Pine would intentionally do some non-pine things so that you'd blatantly defend his scum partners?
I know Pine doesn't take mastina countermeasures.
It seems weird, I know. I know him better than any other player. Yet in the recentish times that he was scum where I was town, he did nothing to stop me even though I basically was a one-woman wrecking crew in Duck Tales among others. (Look at his iso. What in there was an attempt to counter me? Point it out.)
Taking mastina countermeasures is ridiculously hard for Pine to do, for a few reasons.
One, I am a wildcard. A very, very, very strong wildcard. The only thing Pine can predict about me is that I am unpredictable.
Two, even if he takes a countermeasure to a me from a certain time, the very way I think will serve to overcome the countermeasure eventually because I shift my thinking. I continue to change how I go about things, for better or worse, so by laying a countermeasure for me, he leaves himself open to a future-me overcoming him easier.
Three, I am a single player. Pine might know that I am a strong voice who knows him better than the others here...but he knows that to some extent, protecting his scumteam from me leaves himself vulnerable to the REST of the town. Because I think in unusual ways, because I use unorthodox methods, the countermeasures to these would be unusual and unorthodox moves which would be awkward and disjointed...allowing the town to rip his team to shreds.
Four, beyond that: as I have mentioned, Pine has largely stagnated as a player. Sure he's capable of adjusting a little bit to changes in site meta. Sure, he's capable of playing a strong game. But the Pine of now is almost identical to the Pine of six years ago in terms of playing the game. Whereas me? Me, I've continued to change with that time. So Pine attempting to deploy countermeasures to me might entirely miss the mark: he'd end up countering things the past-me would think of, but the current-me would never dream of ever thinking.
The ONLY countermeasures available to Pine that would make him not be vulnerable?
Recruiting me (which I know he didn't)...
...Or an entirely random.org distribution, which...would leave him at a disadvantage, because his three choices (being random) would allow the town to have its strong players, and leave him with only random chance in terms of synchronization. While it's not impossible he would do this, it would be incredibly improbable and time itself would help to demonstrate this.-
-
mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
- False Prophet
- False Prophet
- Posts: 16670
- Joined: October 7, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
Pfft, amateur.In post 270, drealmerz7 wrote:also in case you were worried I don't stalk you to games, we've just happened to be in a few together
While I've stalked mods before, and Pine wasn't the first player I stalked, he has been one of the most consistent players for me to gamestalk before.
Embrace your inner stalker. Live it. Be the creep you always knew deep down you were. Freak your target out by your shows of love and affection: consistently tying rope around their necks and repeatedly shooting them. It's the only way to go pro.-
-
mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
- False Prophet
- False Prophet
- Posts: 16670
- Joined: October 7, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
If you started at 50% chance to be scum, you're hanging at a solid 70-80%.In post 274, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:So mastin, on a scale of 1 to wrong, how sure are you that I'm scum?-
-
mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
- False Prophet
- False Prophet
- Posts: 16670
- Joined: October 7, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
Mafia exercise time.In post 276, Aeronaut wrote:And? I'm pretty sure that's what most of this game thinks, since it's you know, common sense.
Yep, I'm the only one who thinks we shouldn't let a game designed to fuck with us fuck with us, obviously. That's why nacho is the leading wagon, right?
This is a really fun one, I promise you.
Who here can spot the problematic nature of these two statements being placed back-to-back?
There's something very glaringly obvious in here. I could tell you at any time, but I want you to think for a sec, stretch your minds, and see if you're capable of figuring it out for yourselves.
Also a misrep of my point, ignoring all the important bits.This actually, is the definition of WIFOM. Pine wouldn't do WIFOM because he thinks we'd think he'd do WIFOM but he wouldn't do that because...etc.
My argument isn't that we should try to play the wifom game.
My argument is that we should assume Pine making the optimal choices for his scumteam.
Because that's what he'd do, without wifom entering the picture.
So without wifom, what are Pine's perfect choices for being scum?
Players he's seen in action recently and knows the skill of, and/or players who're timeless that he knows are great no matter the gap in time.-
-
mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
- False Prophet
- False Prophet
- Posts: 16670
- Joined: October 7, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
Oh, I have.In post 278, Aeronaut wrote:I'm over it mastina. If you feel like giving any scum reads this game, go ahead!
Nacho, you, TheRealGin-N-Tonic.
I've also got a readslist for that matter, but the three scumreads should suffice.-
-
mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
- False Prophet
- False Prophet
- Posts: 16670
- Joined: October 7, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
I've got a better vote, and normally I'd have long-since cast it (day's open and all that with me hating to not be voting), but first I gotta get caught up (since the vote should be the last thing I post in here today), and then I've gotta prepare the vote because what I have in mind is something special which I think will be appreciated when I do in fact cast the vote.In post 279, Aeronaut wrote:and then doesn't vote me anyway-
-
mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
- False Prophet
- False Prophet
- Posts: 16670
- Joined: October 7, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
Ironically enough this is the closest thing to me having reason to doubt my reads as anything else.In post 286, Aeronaut wrote:Gin, you have any preliminary reads right now? So far I know that you disagree with mastin's spec, but what else?
Know why?
This is literally textbook scum-scum interactions.
So damn textbook.
Sodamn textbook.
That if anything it'd be evidence that it couldn't be true.
Butyeah. Textbook scum-scum interaction is textbook. Objectively a good lynch if nothing else.-
-
mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
- False Prophet
- False Prophet
- Posts: 16670
- Joined: October 7, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
While you're not exactly telling a joke here, I should clarify: neither was I.
You'll note that the posts I quoted? Not TheRealGin-N-Tonic's whole iso. There were some omitted. And of those that I quoted, I often cut out huge swatch of them for only small sections to remain. There was good reason for that. My method might've been a bit tongue-in-cheek, but I was dead serious in saying those were scummy posts.
Now, they're not theonlyscummy posts in the game thread.
Aeronaut has plenty of those, for instance.
But they're all of TheRealGin-N-Tonic's scummy posts. Which happen to be most of his posts.-
-
mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
- False Prophet
- False Prophet
- Posts: 16670
- Joined: October 7, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
Oh mastina the lumberjane,
Seen by others as utterly insane,
But it seems that as of late,
She is here to wreck Pine's game.
Oh mastina the woodcutter,
From the past she did learn.
She wanted to be a treehugger,
Now Pine'll know the wrath of her.
She knows how to fell a Pine,
With a skill that is almost divine.
When asked of her on how and why,
She said simply "Because it's fun to try".
She says the scum she had named,
Include Gin and Aeronaut, great!
But the first victim of her fury today...
VOTE: Nachomamma8.-
-
mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
- False Prophet
- False Prophet
- Posts: 16670
- Joined: October 7, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
Not gonna lie.In post 325, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:When I get to Mastin in my reads list, it'll explain why I'm willing to listen to her at this point
I was thinking I could've been wrong about you.
I was thinking that maybe, just maybe, you were actually town.
I was really, really, really hoping that what you delivered here would convince me of you being town.
Because the idea of your reads process? Quite the good one.
Your execution however is lackluster, and ultimately you failed to give me anything which so much as vaguely resembled what I wanted.-
-
mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
- False Prophet
- False Prophet
- Posts: 16670
- Joined: October 7, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
Okay.In post 338, Secret Agent Jin wrote:What does Pine gain from saying he wants a Nacho lynch actually say?
If I see ANYONE.
And I do mean.
ANYONE.
Who said, "hey let's not think about who Pine would pick, it's wifom!"
...And then proceeds to go, "hey, Pine posted this, what do you think it means?"
I'm lynching that motherfucker before endgame.
Now, vice-versa, my stance, is more understandable: Pine's choices before the game are a valid line of discussion...
...Whereas Pine's posting? You seem to be forgetting a fundamental factor; Pine is confirmed scum. The JOB of confirmed scum is to troll. The JOB of confirmed scum is to mislead the town, and to tell their scumbuddies what to do in private.
I can't fault someone who chooses to deny both (though that's a mistake), nor can I ridicule someone who chooses to accept both (though Pine's posting is bullshit that we all know is bullshit), but if someone held the stance that Pine's picks were wifom and we can't learn info from them and yet is trying to decipher Pine's posting, I'm going to call them out on their hypocritical double-standard.
And demand that anyone who did in fact hold that stance give a DAMN good explanation for the contradiction.
Now for me, I've laid out in very explicit detail why I think Pine's choices can be deciphered. The reason Pine's posts cannot be, however, is that Pine when choosing a scumteam is making a choice for the whole game. Pine when choosing to post is making a choice in the moment. He posts whatever the fuck he wants to post. He gets to choose for his scumteam whoever the fuck he wanted to choose. But it's BECAUSE that he has both that I have my stance:
Because he got to choose for his scumteam whoever the fuck he wanted to, Pine got to select players that he knew would be a good team, and we can figure this out.
Because he gets to post whatever the fuck he wants to, Pine gets to post nothing that is actually useful. Whatever he posts, he thinks to be harmless. Whatever he posts, he does because it was fun, funny, or whatever. Whatever he posts, he has the ability to manipulate freely and on a whim. "Oh shit, that was meant to be in the scum PT!" Yes, and so was my post where I posted that I hoped nobody in the town would see through BBMolla's choice to bus me. (Well, that was supposed to be a PM, but close enough.)
The like.
Pine can pick and choose his scumbuddies, but he can do so only once. His choices are going to be strategic. I can tell you they weren't made for fun because if he were making choices for fun I'd be on the scumteam yet I'm not.
Pine can pick and choose what he posts, and can do so at literally any time. He is quite literally confirmed scum. Engaging him expecting him to give you information is an exercise in futility. He'll give you about 10% accurate info--just enough to satiate your appetite. And then drown that accurate info out in 90% bullshit. And of the accurate info, about half of it is stuff we already know or will quickly figure out. Leaving a mere fraction of his posts as actually useful. And those useful posts? Basically impossible to distinguish between, because in the bullshit he posts, he'll give a lot of fake-useful posts meant for players tothinkthey've found something when they haven't.
So my solution is simple: I'm ignoring Pine's posting for the sake of reads. Now, I'll still engage him, talk to him, but not because I expect something useful from it. Because he's my friend and I'm reminiscing about the good ol' days, essentially.
His choices, on the other hand, are an entirely different ballpark. When he made his choices, he couldn't make any bullshit up. All he could do was select a team he thought would win. Because Pine is--and here's the biggie--still playing to fulfill a scum wincon. What that means is, his posting is meant to fulfill that scum wincon by being as unhelpful as possible, whereas his picks in the pregame were meant to select the best team for the job and were therefore the most helpful thing possible.
I really wish I could convey this in a succinct form right now, but dead serious.
Pine's picks are a subject which are important, because he got to select the scum for this game.
Pine's words in this game aren't, because he gets to select what he says as confscum who would normally not talk and is only trolling when he does.
People who take the opposite stance need to die on policy alone.-
-
mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
- False Prophet
- False Prophet
- Posts: 16670
- Joined: October 7, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
^Okay, this works. Pine, as known scum, posting, is bad for his team. But he is mandated to do so by the setup. However, while he is mandated to post...I don't imagine he is mandated to post in a certain fashion, i.e., giving useful info to us.In post 340, pisskop wrote:Pine signed up to be a spectator with posting rights. Hes a liability to his team
So, if he's not required to give useful info to us...and his alignment is scum...the info he gives us is...what, exactly?
Yeah. Trolling bullshit.
In contrast, Pine was involved in creating his scumteam. Him being involved is a liability, sure...but he's not mandated to share with us any aspect of his picking process. As a result, he doesn't have to give anything to us. As a result, he can make picks that he feels are able to win the game. And ultimately, that's what his choices would be. Not random bullshit, like his posting. Strategically selecting the players which Pine thinks are capable of winning the game because Pine is still technically scum-aligned.
Ergo, Pine's posting is bullshit which can be ignored.
Pine's choices weren't bullshit and thus shouldn't be ignored.-
-
mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
- False Prophet
- False Prophet
- Posts: 16670
- Joined: October 7, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
Do you see me voting Aeronaut?In post 347, Monokuma wrote:BELOVED BEAR MONOKUMA ATTEMPTS TO APPEAL TO MASTINA TO STOP ATTEMPTING TO MURDER ADORABLE POKEMON ALIGNED WITH TOWN.
...No?
Yeah well that's me answering you.
I will humor your read by not voting him.
If that's not good enough, tough luck.-
-
mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
- False Prophet
- False Prophet
- Posts: 16670
- Joined: October 7, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
Depends. Are we talking concept, thought, or practice?In post 348, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:Hey Mastin, how long does it take you to plan for a game?
...See, my first language actually isn't English.
It's concepts. (I think this is a fairly common trait among autistic people, by the way. They may use other terms, other words to convey this, because their translation of the concept might be different than mine, but I think that they, too, understand on some level that they're not thinking words; they're thinking concepts.)
This conceptual phase is fast--veryfast. Really, really, REALLY fast.
Making a plan for a game takes less than a second on the conceptual level.
Now, then, my brain has to translate that concept into words. This translation might be called processing. It's where we get expressions like "my mind thinks faster than I can follow". And translating this concept of a plan into words takes me anywhere from 30 seconds to 5 minutes.
Now, writing that out? Well, I'm a fast typist (at least 80 WPM, might be much higher than that), but my hands are even slower than my brain is, so while I have the language translated approximately, it takes some time for me to lay out and detail what said plan is. This can take anywhere from 5 minutes to an hour. Usually somewhere in the 15-30 minute range.