Mini 1889: Greatest Idea Mafia (Endgame!)

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VOTE: Boring

Enforcing the patriarchy

I'm not the only chick here, am I?

Anyway, make up your mind!
VOTE: RC

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My mind is full of WIFOM over Drixx rejecting 1-shot unlynchable townie.

Hi LUV!

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How dare you vote for me you complete weapon

VOTE: boring

.... I've been called worse.

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VOTE: Screenplay

Why?

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I used Conspiracy Theorist as my alignment card. I figured the chances of aliens popping up in this game were slim to none.

Transcend, where does the power alignment column come from? Is it an assumption on your part, or is it derived from the setup?

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Okay, thanks. Not sure why we're revealing anything about role cards right now.

Transcend, why are you keeping a chart when keyser is already tracking things? It seems like a lot of unnecessary trouble, unless you're planning to use it to track additional information.

Tell us more about your scum reads on me, grey, and screenplay.

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VOTE: Zefiend

First serious vote. His reticence seems oddly timed (as Keyser, arguably a strong voice atm) just gave town points to someone for being hesitant, and he's sheeping someone who can be an aggressive player. I get the impression he's trying to give the impression of being town. While avoiding the risk of a card CC.

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Oh my gerdness phone posting + no editing is going to be the death of me. Sorry for all the punctuation errors.

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Wraith is scum and if I have to drag you onto it Transcend you are next.

I don't have a read on him yet.

Is it tone, or do you have a reason that people who live outside your head can follow?

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Glad that was all sorted out in my absence. Scum!boring would probably have taken the zefiend route. Hence, the vote on zefiend.

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@Zefiend

You asked like 15 questions in your response. I'm not sure how offended you'll be over them passing unaddressed, but I'm on my phone. I can't keep scrolling back and forth to answer them. If you actually care about my answers to missed questions, a simple numbered list would help tremendously.

Now, I believe your primary concern was "what else could I have done?" I'd like to say first that, that is scummy in itself. Who am I to judge you? Unless I'm town and you're scum. Actually, your whole response reeked of defensiveness. We're like 24 hours in. Why be all jumpy already?

Anyway, as to what you could have done about the role card to arouse less suspicion, examples include: more assertive noncompliance; talking about other people's responses, ignoring the fact that you hadn't answered; actually giving your role card; lying about your role card (lots of VT left.. It's not like we'd know until your flip anyway), etc. As far as sheeping RC goes, you could have done literally anything else.

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@boring: all your suggestions are bad and are not in line with how I go about playing as town.

I'm sorry to be so brusque, but I don't really care about what you could have done. You asked, so I answered. All I care about is the fact that your actions don't appear town-motivated.

If you're actually town, you have plenty of time to demonstrate that. We're only at page 7, but we had a reasonably serious beginning. If you want to contribute something more than an overblown reaction to an early scum read, there's info to sift through. Happy hunting.

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You could try answering some of my questions.

Sure! Can you please list them in a not-wall? Like this:
1. Did you notice that I've already made this request?
2. Are you aware that this is an effective way to present multiple questions?
3. Do you actually want your questions answered, or are you using it as a red herring?

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@Wraith, I'm a little confused as to why you found it necessary to make a list of possible PRs for zefiend. I get asking for alignment, but why openly speculate about his role? Also, why all that, if you're not going to vote for him?

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@Grey - I hate being complacent, but I get your point. Last time, I suppose I let myself drift around, when I should have stuck with my first instinct. *cough*

@LUV - do you really think Zefiend isn't scum?

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I think everyone's point is Z was asked to prove he is town and he said no.

This wasn't my main issue, but I suppose it is concerning, yes.

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Wraith certainly was an awkward sheep, but zefiend is still scum.

P-edit: whoa, wtf is that?

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@Grey - Well, you got one helluva bad vote to pounce on, but I'm still undecided on Wraith. There's a very believable (natural) clumsiness there.

@RC - you just made me laugh audibly.

@LUV - I'm really not good scum.. I just had a lucky couple newbie games.

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That's why I think Zefiend is scum. The fact that he seems motivated by appearances. Like scum.

P-edit: you kids type too fast
P-edit: what about Transcend is particularly scummy? He's hard for me to read in general.

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Grey, where are you getting all these pictures of me?

Also, LUV, I don't thing Zefiend was actually trying to rail against town. I think he was stuck for an answer, and chose the stalwart town act as an easy out. It could have been like a double benefit, had it worked. In other words, i think he thought it would look town.

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Anyone have thoughts on Keyser?

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Yeah, but what if he told you that he was scum and you're lying to me about what he truthfully told you?

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That's why I think Zefiend is scum. The fact that he seems motivated by appearances. Like scum.

If he's motivated by appearances, why the very visible rebellion against claiming his alignment card when it's much simpler to claim a card that has multiple instances?

Did this get answered?

yeah, but for some reason I thought LUV had asked it, so I addressed it to him.

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@Zefiend- your answers... It's just long, so I spoilered it

Spoiler:

1. If I oppose a game-wide sentiment pushed by someone, should I not express my dissent just because someone else expressed their dissent first (and then conceded anyway)? Keyser was going to make sure the question rolled around to me anyway, at which point I would address it in some way or another.

sure... But so did it so weirdly. Like trying to have your cake and eat it too.

I won't tell you what it was because reasons, but it's totally town, and here's unsolicited information about my role. Because I'm town and I want to keep my stuff secret.

2. Why was my sheeping a non-aggressive RC vote concerning if the caveat you pointed out was that he's known to be an aggressive player?

I've seen RC play. You've clearly seen him play too. He's an aggressive player once he gets down to business. He's like a cat. He'll just lay there for hours, then that tail twitch happens. Of all the players to sheep for no apparent reason, he's the most suspicious.

3. Is there something wrong with town trying to give the impression of being town?

well, yeah. It makes you absolutely useless. Better to actually contribute something of value. It's like asking if there's anything wrong with caring more about your own survival than your team's wincon.

4. What do you think my motive for not claiming my alignment card is, instead of say... just claiming VT which can't be cc'd?

I think anyone who claimed VT in this stage runs the risk of being turned on later. I mean, it's the obvious solution for scum. So, by stalling, you can look town, see what everyone else says, and figure out whether you should "be convinced" to reveal, or if you can get away with saying nothing.

Because when it comes down to it, the combo-breaker in a town collaboration is usually scum. Having early claims to compare to later helps us out liars. Let's say, for example, you claim the last "conspiracy theorist", and someone flips that card. Well holy shit, now you're 1v1 with me (since Grey's is mod-confirmed). That's not a situation scum puts themselves in willingly.

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I've seen RC play. You've clearly seen him play too. He's an aggressive player once he gets down to business. He's like a cat. He'll just lay there for hours, then that tail twitch happens. Of all the players to sheep for no apparent reason, he's the most suspicious.

He's actually not. I am, because my vote tends to bounce around unpredictably.

Fine. You're both kitties.

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-

ɀefiend

. Either stubborn town or '3rd party scum' - who both town and 'group-scum' wanted to bury. Less defense and words, more pro-active sorting please

I'm not thrilled with the wagon/my wagon fellows. Wraith is stuck on Zefiend because he's the counter wagon. Massive seemed opportunistic. Transcend's vote was a hair after mine, and likely for the same reasons as me.

As far as 3rd party, we might as well assume all anti-town are acting alone. There were a lot of factions in those cards. Even if someone picked "mafia", they might be the only one.

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-

ɀefiend

. Either stubborn town or '3rd party scum' - who both town and 'group-scum' wanted to bury. Less defense and words, more pro-active sorting please

I'm not thrilled with the wagon/my wagon fellows. Wraith is stuck on Zefiend because he's the counter wagon. Massive seemed opportunistic. Transcend's vote was a hair after mine, and likely for the same reasons as me.

As far as 3rd party, we might as well assume all anti-town are acting alone. There were a lot of factions in those cards. Even if someone picked "mafia", they might be the only one.

This is your chance to exit my wagon with dignity.

When given the option, I do nothing with dignity.

I still don't see proactivity. I think you're still very occupied by the event leading to your wagon. This conversation could have been long over by now, and you could be onto something else. My fervor has faded somewhat, I'll confess, but I still see nothing at all town about you.

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Screenplay, are you scum reading RC? If so, why?

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I'd like Drixx and LUV to come back, please

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I'd like Drixx and LUV to come back, please

Never went anywhere. (Except to sleep, which I've been doing a lot of this past week. Only 11 hours last night though!). What's up Boring?

I just don't think I've gotten much to sort you by, and I'd like to see more. I don't know if you're still sick, but if you're feeling better, can you share game-related thoughts?

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What's the argument for scum!screenplay, again?

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Fair enough

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You seem pretty confident, RC. Do you believe Transcend has town tells too? Would these scum tells override them? I'm asking this because if you're being genuine about his tells, I'm guessing you don't want to go into a lot of detail.

I've seen enough potentially scummy things from him to be wary, but he strikes me as scummy pretty much always (I spectate random games). I even found him scummy while I was scum and he was town (it was multiball, in my defense).

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boring always has her options open when the wind changes, it seems to me

This describes me as a human, FYI. I can't imagine existing with the sheer amount of arrogance required to believe I'm the only person who can be right.

In all seriousness, Wraith, I'm struck by your vote. I'm the only really active player in your scum list. That makes me the most threatening, and my flip the most informative, doesn't it? So why on earth are you voting a relative lurker?

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VOTE: Wraith
For encouragement.

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You know what? I'm just going to stop posting today, since clearly nobody likes when I try to contribute.

You could try interacting. Posting a wall and then pouting when you don't get a round of applause isn't all that productive. You made a move that I don't think would come from town. So defend your decision. Or ignore me. Or make a good case for massive. Anything but this pity-party nonsense.

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I'd like Drixx and LUV to come back, please

Something troubling you boring?

You went missing. I want to figure out if you're town or not.

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What does PGO mean, by the way?

Also, how does this argument for massive differ from what could be said of PimHel?

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What does PGO mean, by the way?

Oh stop it. This isn't Arctic Mafia, you minx.

Ladies don't like a tease, you know. Put out or get out.

@RC transcend is still alive because he hasn't been lynched yet.

I've been thinking about why people choose to play this game. For me, it's the puzzle. It gives me a legitimate forum in which I can get away with objectify people as problems to solve. This, as opposed to playing scum, where I'm stuck having to care how people feel.

For others, there's a more social appeal. Some may enjoy seeing how good they are at tricking people. Others may enjoy having an important role (or something clever/obscure) I can assume that older players are looking for something they haven't done a dozen times.

Since there is an element of choice in our alignment and roles, this matters (to me).

In my view, there are two basic read-styles: rational and empathetic (we all use both to some degree, but if they conflict, one wins the day). I hypothesize that empathetic players are most likely to select a scum alignment, and rationals are most likely to pick town.

I believe given the chance, Drixx, Grey, and LUV would choose town. But who knows? Maybe they were presented with an offer they couldn't bear to turn down.

I believe given the chance, Transcend would pick scum. But again, what if he was offered something cool for town?

Anyway, that's running in the background with my reads/leans. I think someone like Wraith is more likely to choose scum. Same with Zefiend, actually. He had an overblown reaction to being scum read. Also, iirc, from the scum game we played together, "get out of this mess and lay low for a while" was his plan for getting by.

But back to Transcend. I think it's fair to assume he'd choose scum unless he was offered a much better town alternative.

Tl;dr: I'd prefer to see Zefiend or Wraith go today, but Transcend is fine too.

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VOTE: Screenplay

Why?

@boring - FTR - why did you ask "why?" regarding massive's RVS vote on Screenplay?

it was a naked vote.

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Boring you've said so much that indicates you should be happy with a transcend wagon but you're not voting him. Why?

Oppositional defiance? I've been hoping to learn more from poking and prodding at Wraith and Zefiend. I don't see any point in trying to pressure Transcend. Do you believe differently?

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VOTE: Screenplay

Why?

@boring - FTR - why did you ask "why?" regarding massive's RVS vote on Screenplay?

it was a naked vote.

Exactly.
It was a page 1 RVS vote.
Naked is expected.
Did you expect a reason of substance?
Do you play Mafia on other sites with RVS?

It was the first naked vote of the game, and I wasn't sure it wasn't serious.

My start date is from when I signed up for my first mafia game. Since that day, I played a few games on MU. Not that it's relevant. Naked votes, even in RVS, raise questions fairly often on this site.

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Okedoke, maybe pressure will work on Transcend.

VOTE: Transcend

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Considering how many scum have been hardcore lurkers in every game I've played since becoming active again, I'm done giving that a pass

You have a good point. I've seen scum lurk to the end, "find time", power-town, and win. But it seems like just as often, scum use lurking as an excuse to mislynch.

I think we still have to depend on content to sort them.

Of the lurkers, these are my observations: With Drixx, it always seems like he has something pulling him away from the game (as town -- I've never seen his scum game). LUV has earned at least two prods every game I've played with him, regardless of alignment. I haven't attempted to sort alban or massive yet. PimHel appears to be posting from a town perspective.

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We're not announcing the L-1? I think that's L-1.

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Or is that not a vote?

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VOTE: Zefiend

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Since I'm town now I'm considering fullclaiming my power as well. I'd like input.

Full roleclaim unnecessary.
Ah, so you started the game as third party scum, now reborn as town...
...and the VT alignment claim was a red herring until you knew which team you were on.

Hang on a sec... why are you assuming 3rd party? Couldn't he have been on a scum team?

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Since I'm town now I'm considering fullclaiming my power as well. I'd like input.

Full roleclaim unnecessary.
Ah, so you started the game as third party scum, now reborn as town...
...and the VT alignment claim was a red herring until you knew which team you were on.

Hang on a sec... why are you assuming 3rd party? Couldn't he have been on a scum team?

Underdog is a third party role. I start as Survivor and when the first person dies during the Day, I join their faction.

Okay, I guess I thought the role card was independent of alignment in this game

Will do sexual favors on boring for hammer.

That'll cost extra.

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Good luck with that.

VOTE: Wraith. Knew I should I have shot this fool.

Okay, Zefiend, since I apparently haz the dumb, walk me through how you ended up with two roles (both the dayvig and the underdog).

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Nevermind, I finally get it. Underdog is the alignment card.

I still think I believe Wrath over Zefiend.

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Okay, so I think this is a good time to get reads from Zefiend, and any updates Wraith might have to his reads.

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Now, you've been playing around about me being scum, but I swear to red velvet cake, if you turn me into a lightening rod tonight, and you turn out to be town, the dead thread will be wallpapered in -Grey- insults.

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@RC & Grey - Ur buttheads

Just in case I don't get to see the bountiful green pastures of D2:
I've a tinfoil on Keyser
still no read on alban because there's nothing to read
I was waiting to sort RC until D2 or D3 because I think I need actual information
Wraith is either scum or conf. town (we'll see in a few)
Grey is probably town
PimHel is probably town
Screenplay is awkward
I think I'm okay with massive.
Zefiend is still scummy
Jury's out on Drixx
LUV is probably town

But there's the thing: If LUV is town, he's pretty darned good at spotting scum. As scum, he's a bit awkward and wordy (at least he was last time). So if it comes down to it, smart money is on LUV.

Hold the phone. There are 12 players alive. So, wouldn't it take 7 to lynch?

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who's dead?

we have 1-keyser, 2-alban, 3-RC, 4-Wraith, 5-Grey, 6-PimHel, 7-Screenplay, 8-massive, 9-Zefiend, 10-Drixx, 11-LUV, and 12-boring

right? did I miss something?

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who's dead?

we have 1-keyser, 2-alban, 3-RC, 4-Wraith, 5-Grey, 6-PimHel, 7-Screenplay, 8-massive, 9-Zefiend, 10-Drixx, 11-LUV, and 12-boring

right? did I miss something?

Sigh.

boring isn't following the game.

Scumpoints++

Of course boring if following the game, but clearly boring missed something.

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screenplay disappeared from the vote count.

... and I guess zefiend just ended the day

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Uncool.

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Someone targeted someone last night, by the way. I at least got something useful done last night. Since the target isn't dead, I'd be interested to know if anyone was blocked or otherwise impaired last night.

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Drixx

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It would stand to reason that if he pretended to be a mass-redirector, he'd be a target for block or kill. If the blocker/killer had the better card number, they'd get through, right?

I think grey's ploy makes sense for a bulletproof townie to draw out scum.

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I suppose that's a way to look at it. There are a maximum of 3 anti-town left, right?

I don't see Drixx as the "retribution" type. I suspect you were targeted as a legitimate threat.

By the way, are bulletproof told when they've been shot at? I can't find and answer in the wiki.



Wait, wait... You're fully bulletproof?!

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Boring please stop enabling this

Sorry, I get excited by new information, and general brainstorming. Also, having an interesting result last night got me all worked up too.

I don't think you're very likely "outing" yourself as "drixx's partner". There are a couple possibilities outside "drixx is scum", but they're just less likely than drixx being scum.

I think it's perfectly reasonable to wait on the rest of the players to join us before committing ourselves to black-and-white conclusions. There's still a chance that Grey is scum too, though I think he's more likely town.


P-edit: I figured that if lurkers weren't volunteering information by way of posts, I could extract it by force. I was going to pick alban, but him replacing out added legitimacy to the lurking, and so picked Drixx instead (also, Drixx was LUV's pick, and town!LUV is a genius).

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Honestly, I think Wraith and LUV are the most likely to flip town. Drixx is most suspect, but that doesn't exonerate Grey. We also still have lurkers to address, and I can't help anymore with that.

Also, I'm a lady-boring. (And not blonde, for the record).

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@Grey, I'm tinfoiling you. I think RC is accusing you. I'm tinfoiling RC too.

@WhemeStar, I think the order in which night actions stack in this game are dependent on the secret numbers on our role cards. If my number had lost to the bloodsucker's, maybe I wouldn't have gotten a result last night.


P-edit.... Or you could all just lynch whemestar. I don't think it's mass claim time.

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@massive, why would your choice to block RC make him scum? Maybe Drixx blocked Grey. Or someone jailkept someone else. Or someone else tried to shoot Grey. Maybe RC doesn't even have a night action.

You must have scum read him to start with if you blocked him, right? What tipped you in that direction yesterday?

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..... So whemestar is taking the credit for stumping me? If he's not caught up, why me? If he had town intentions, as Grey theorized, why the discredit attempt?

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..... So whemestar is taking the credit for stumping me? If he's not caught up, why me? If he had town intentions, as Grey theorized, why the discredit attempt?

Cause I asked the mod what my power does and he said it takes away your night action.

And he said nothing about votes? Or the chance that my night action would go through anyway? Wow. His rules and explanations in the beginning were really thorough. It seems odd that you'd get such a vague response.

In that case, why do you need to catch up? If you intentionally stripped away my night actions, surely, you had a scum read on me.

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@massive, that makes some sense. It is possible you contributed to the nokill. It's hard to sort things when we don't know how many anti-town players and factions exist. I think more than anything, I was taken back by how confident you were that RC had to be scum.

@Grey, who are you talking to in #812?

@Wraith & LUV, what do you think of WhemeStar right now?

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Okay. It just doesn't make any sense as a response to that post, so I was curious.

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Well, regardless of my stumpiness, I definitely chose to target Drixx for my NA, and my result was definitely that my target targetted Grey. I don't know if there are any other possible redirecting roles floating around, but that's what I got. This is my first time even making it to a second day as town here. I've not yet reached the level of sophistication required for scumhunting gambits.

[boring]

It makes sense for a scum faction to use the bloodsucker ability when they're afraid of a redirect on themselves. If they hit town, cool. If they get hit themselves, it's at least more fun than actually dying. So assuming that my track on Drixx can't be used to learn alignment, I'm most inclined to think WhemeStar is scum. I wasn't wildly scummy yesterday. I was aiming for middle-of-the-road (because I didn't want to be killed N1 again!). Wheme has suggested that he essentially sought to vig me (or at least strip me of abilities, which town wouldn't do to a town read). I find it hard to believe that my play would have made me a top scum read to a neutral observer of day 1. If he had only skimmed, I'd still be an unlikely target. I mean, of the three people I voted, two turned out to not be town (at the time of my vote).

It just doesn't add up. Also, in a Grey!tinfoil, it's unfolded in a way that could have been predicted, had a scum team actually planned this. Wheme to treestump, Grey to buddy, spin, and claim BP. I'm pretty darned impressionable, so they could have figured me an easy pocket. (Too bad I'm not very loyal with my impressionableness!)

There are a maximum of 3 scum left, but that doesn't mean there are actually 3. There could easily be only one faction left at this point. Or even a lone scum. That means a treestump might legitimately have been all that happened (and all that was going to happen, despite the roleblock and a BP claim). If I had a vote, I'd have it on WhemeStar right now.

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You think I bloodsuck u cause i SR you?

You had better have! Town doesn't cripple town. You first reaction in the game was to say I shouldn't have had a read. You also said all the mod told you was that I wouldn't have actions any more. Why deliberately steal a town PR? The smartest choice, in that case, would have been someone like Keyser, who wants to play voteless anyway.

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I had null read on boring when I sent in my role target pm.

So pray, tell why you'd choose to target a null read?

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So.... Is no one else seeing WhemeStar's outright contradictions, or does no one actually care?

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RC has really good points about Wraith. I just caught up, and it looks like he overplayed himself. The early "defeated" AtE behavior melted away when he felt he was "confirmed town". Now that he's being questioned again, we're seeing yet another side, with little pockets that hint at being cleverer than he's let on.

This possible ducking and weaving is worrisome. His voting pattern is worrisome.

RC's rallying cries look very town.

I still don't know if I believe Drixx. It's super plausible, but also something I think scum!Drixx would be perfectly capable of inventing. I've got a whole roll of aluminum over here, but I'm not sure he's the best choice for lynch today.

Now, speaking of foil, is Keyser going to be bothered to vote today?

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@Wraith, I wrote up my issues on Wheme yesterday, and I'm keeping it as a draft until it becomes relevant to the game again (after all, I have nothing but time). I think town is actively working on other things right now, and I don't want to be a distraction.

I don't like the way you're twisting what I said into a personal affront. This isn't the first time this game that you've created a situation for yourself that invites players to "feel bad" and comfort you. More to the point, it's a manipulation designed to make yourself look pitiable, and therefore not a threat. The question for town is, is this just how you do you (I don't know your life), or are you creating/exaggerating this behavior as a part of scum play?

@people speculating about NKs, I think it bears considering that there may be only one scum faction left. If that's the case, they either a) believed the mass redirector threat and not shot, b) chose to treestump instead, c) actually shot at Grey [if Drixx isn't scum, someone else could have easily targeted him], or d) aimed at someone else with some kind of protection [heck, being bloodsucked could have theoretically stopped a NK on me, if it had a better roll]

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@Boring, don't forget Massive claiming he roleblocked RC.

Right. So, 5 options.

Either way, the fact that no one died last night suggests that we're most likely to have only one scum faction left.

By the way, I thought I remembered reading that everyone gets at least one town card and at least one scum faction card. I can't find that now. Was I just remembering wrong?

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Is RC even a Supersaint?

Doubtful. I think he just said it to dramatise his point that he's not the lynch today. I will gladly wear the dunce hat for a week if I'm wrong, but I think RC is town.

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9 players are alive, and only 4 are actually active. Of the four, (Grey, RC, Keyser, and Wraith) there's a lot of discord. Drixx, Massive, and Wheme post occasionally, but not enough. LUV has gone absent and PimHel needs replacing.

There are 1-3 scum left. That means there are plenty of town to choose from.

Since scum-hunting has been pretty uncoordinated, why not turn efforts to town-hunting? Can everyone please find a town buddy? Someone they're reasonably sure can be trusted?

It might give you all a place of strength upon which to build a decent town team.

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@Keyser, while multiple scum factions clearly haven't been ruled out, it's borderline harmful speculation. Scum themselves don't know whether they are alone. We won't know if there's more than a single scum left until we've lynched one and the game isn't over. We have to hunt one at a time, regardless. It stands to reason that our best strategy is to function as if there's only one scum left, and adjust as necessary.

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Because they were afraid of your redirect threat.

With bloodsucking, they could do damage to town (a tracker would be useful, and so would my vote) or mitigate the total death of one of their own.

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Because they were afraid of your redirect threat.

With bloodsucking, they could do damage to town (a tracker would be useful, and so would my vote) or mitigate the total death of one of their own.

The point is, scum isn't even likely to choose it in the first place.

That's debatable, except in the very specific circumstances created by your redirector gambit, where it becomes a pretty good move. Which is, coincidentally, when it occurred.

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I'm not sure if you recall, but you announced that as your role. Quite convincingly, in fact.

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No it's not even that it's that the majority of players wouldn't think through it enough to realize that it doesn't help them and they'd see the role and be like ZOMG ANOTHER NIGHTKILL FUCKING AMAZING AND SO COOL.

Considering it says right on the description that it prevents the night kill, you're full of shit.

Having a scum alignment doesn't transform people into criminal masterminds. They might have understood the caveat as pertaining to themselves, not their faction.

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Since this is devolving anyway,

@RC, would you mind sharing the "tells" that made you believe Transcend was scum?

@Grey, you probably could stand to tone down the black-and-white thinking. If Keyser just caved and did what you wanted, you'd totally SR him for it. He refuses, and you SR him for it. You don't get both.

@Keyser, since you're not giving votes, can you commit to reads?

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@Grey, sure, you'd let him comply for now. After a while, though, you'd come around to "he rolled on his 'resolve' under pressure to get a vote off him... It must really have been a scum tactic that he was forced to abandon".

However, since you just admitted to voting him on policy, I guess the point is moot. You don't think he's scum -- he's just disobeying you.

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@Grey, sure, you'd let him comply for now. After a while, though, you'd come around to "he rolled on his 'resolve' under pressure to get a vote off him... It must really have been a scum tactic that he was forced to abandon".

However, since you just admitted to voting him on policy, I guess the point is moot. You don't think he's scum -- he's just disobeying you.

I said when I first made the fucking vote that it was policy.

I swear to God if you weren't confirmed town I'd lynch you over this dumb shit.

Well, that's exactly the problem, isn't it?

So you voted Drixx for targeting you. I can see that. But then you kept the vote on after he claimed an investogative role because you wanted things your way (he wouldn't tell you the exact role). Then, you voted Keyser because you wanted things your way (he wouldn't place a vote). Now, you vote RC because he didn't threaten you was honorably as you threaten people.

I'm not suggesting none of these men could be scum, but are you going to try your hand at actual scumhunting at some point? or do you just want to go on trying to control everyone?

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Since my active participation has hurt at least two players' feelings, I'm just going to stick to ISO analysis. That said, I'll avoid interaction unless directly addressed. I don't like losing, and I certainly don't want to be the cause of it by offending everyone.

Hopefully, I'll have all the living players done in the next 5 days. I'll do those with wagons first.

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Boring, what's your read on massive? Drixx?

I town read massive, but for a shallow reason. He understood my post about who would enjoy different roles. His response struck me as genuine. As for his play in a more objective sense, he's in the neutral zone. I do understand his paranoia of you. You've got a reputation built around your scumplay, and I can imagine people are afraid of being hoodwinked. On the other hand, it's good cover for a mislynch.

Regarding Drixx, I'm not sure. I think he could be scum this game. I have no concrete reason to pinpoint him as scum, but I have an uneasy feeling about him. Keyser's point that Cop can only identify "mafia", "not mafia" finally sunk in, too. However, looking in the wiki, wording can vary. A cop in this game may very well be getting "town", "not town" results. (Is this something the mod is allowed to clarify?). Either way, I think we'd benefit from waiting on Drixx until tomorrow. If he's a cop, another result could help us suss things out (or he could draw the NK, unfortunately, which would at least clear him and save us a bad lynch). If he isn't, I suspect it'll be more apparent as time goes on.

For either of these fellas, my opinion might change after a more in-depth review. By the way, how do you link a post by the post number? I'd rather do that than a wall of quotes.

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By the way, how do you link a post by the post number?

Code: Select all

[post]##[/post]

Thank you

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Boring you know that I'm town I need your help.

I think you, and especially Grey would have to be pretty gross to be scum at this point. Neither of you had to do all that. Unless Grey is another jester, his posturing/anti-town statements don't make any sense for the scum win-con. Similarly, if you were scum, you'd be better off encouraging rather than combating him.

Now, I can understand getting frustrated to the point of policy, but I'd only suggest considering that as a last resort against no-lynch.

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Boring you know that I'm town I need your help.

I think you, and especially Grey would have to be pretty gross to be scum at this point. Neither of you had to do all that. Unless Grey is another jester, his posturing/anti-town statements don't make any sense for the scum win-con. Similarly, if you were scum, you'd be better off encouraging rather than combating him.

Now, I can understand getting frustrated to the point of policy, but I'd only suggest considering that as a last resort against no-lynch.

Boring, combating me is what RC DOES as Scum BECAUSE he knows I'm volatile and easily provoked.

I'd you can't see the scum motive in instigating that, idk what to tell you aside from, "I'm happy you don't have a vote."

Link, please

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Preface 1: I've been working on this for like 2 hours or so, and I'm not editing out tenses and whatnot for RC.

Preface 2: I will also say this for like the third time: You should be hunting as if there's only one scum left. Why? Because all we can know for sure is that there's at least one. Please, ignore pre-flip associations, and ignore "you're next" arguments. They are distractions. Just hunt for one. If the game isn't over when someone flips red, look for another. We've eliminated 2-3 scum already, and none of them faction-scum. The chances of the remaining scum having a buddy are less than 50/50.

Preface 3: Now, I know I promised something bigger, but the rapid-pace of the conversations has made ISO spelunking difficult. Instead, I'll just make a long reads list. I'm not a scum-hunting genius, and I probably have a lot to learn. In fact, this is my third town game here, and I didn't reach a second day in either of the other two. But I am not the worst analyst in the world, and I'm decent at reading people once I've had time to mull things over (I'm a slow-thinker). So here's how I see the players thus far:

LUV

- If he's scum, it'll shatter my icy heart. Unless he's trying something new, I don't believe he'd choose a scum role. He's playing exactly as he does in town games. If anyone is seeking a townblock, you might as well stick him in it.

RC

- The powers that be may have to change my status from "goon" to "naive twat" after this game, but I believe that RC is town. I think he's genuinely frustrated, and I think he's trying to help steer town in what he thinks is the right direction. I think that people are a little too eager to be on his wagon when they really have no reason to be. It suggests that scum are hopping a ride, and further indicates that he's town.

massive

- Has maintained a genuine feel to his play throughout the game. I see that his time on this site is, well, massive. So I realize this could be faked, but I doubt it.

-Grey-

- He's probably town, but I have two reservations: he's kept the aggression levels up, even though the opposition cooled considerably. If he's scum who's being townread for being explosive, it stands to reason that he'd keep it up for effect. I also don't like the sudden clinging to the "I claimed a unique card, I can't be scum" argument. I mean, that sounds exactly like the kind of thing I'd pull early in a game (because if you can pull it off [and someone else is kind enough to point it out] you've got a small boost). The odds are in favor of the gambit, too. 151 possible cards, and 13 are already flipped. That means about, what, 80% of the remaining cards are going unused/unseen? If you choose a unique card that people are fairly likely to discard (like cop lover), your 1-in-5 odds of being cc'd decrease even more.

Drixx

- I'm still wanting to delay judgement on Drixx. I've seen him use odd reasoning before (I really don't see the 1v1 argument, despite trying to explain it to us like three times). In my first game, he somehow reasoned that since I was least likely to be scum, I was the best lynch choice going into lylo. I'm not trying to be dismissive, I'm just suggesting that it's NAI for him (or even a town-tell? again, I've never seen a confirmed scum!Drixx). If he's a cop, we'll know more tomorrow.

Keyser Soze

- He's done a lot of busy work. Without votes, I'm having a hard time figuring out what he's thinking and where he's standing. I've seen a lot of neutral statements and game-solving-like questions, but I've not seen what

I

think of as a proportionate level of output. I also think people are demotivated to interact with him because there's no threat. He's not going to vote, so it doesn't matter. I don't think this alone makes him scum, but I don't see this as an effective town-strategy. The choice to continue something that's sub-optimal may indicate non-town motivation. I don't think he's the ideal lynch today, but I don't know if I'll feel that way tomorrow.

Wraith

- His redemption is the underdog cc. Literally everything else (his reads, his off-and-on AtE, the staged feel eminating from his votes) has been screaming "scum" at me on a near-constant basis. Enough people consider him conf-town (or near to it), that he's likely to be a scum NK (if there are any scum with this ability among our numbers). So I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

WhemeStar

- It's worrisome to me that Grey pointed out basically all of my concerns with his play. Massive identified the rest. I don't like that his activity is almost exclusively confined to defending himself. I don't think there's been an original thought or motion brought forward by him at all.

ThinkBig

- He's been very shady. He jumped straight into the Grey v. RC dynamic, insisted that one had to be scum, and kept his vote on the underdog. He swung back and forth between calling them toxic, and acting like a crony. He made the right scum choice to agree with Grey, because Grey won't turn on him as long as he's obeying.

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You weren't around when the RC vs. Grey was at it's apex, so don't judge what you don't know

I was, in fact, reading it in real time. I just didn't see the point in throwing myself in it (plus, I'm clearly a much slower poster than the youth). I regret my decision now because I would have preferred that RC stayed.

Regardless, that was a schoolyard argument. The whole conversation is on record for everyone to judge, and we can all read timestamps.

You simply aren't cleared by your "I claimed a unique card first" argument.

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Congrats, LUV and Drixx! Holy cow, you guys had me fooled

Also, momo, that survivor claim was clever.

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It's cool. It wouldn't have been so bad for town if my reads weren't so awful.

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You shouldn't feel bad. You did an awesome job of mirroring your town game.

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Yes, and I apologize that I was unable to get things fully under control.

We're adults (I'm assuming) if we can't regulate ourselves, it's not your fault. This was a cool game setup, and you were awesome to be so accommodating.