Mini 1918: Paint Mafia Threequel! Game Over!

[Apricity]

I've been busy all day, so sorry for getting to this so late! Reading up now.

[Apricity]

Can either Gamma or jj explain the logic in that post? Maybe I'm just tired but I don't really understand his reasoning in post 22 there. And also why he didn't explain right when he listed his early townreads.

[Apricity]

I like the natural curiosity in Raya's 44. Raises a lot of the same questions I had after Varsoon explained the mechanics a little. Like for example the purpose of different colors, whether we are notified of changes, etc. Does anyone know if colors are tied to actual roles at all?

Aristo is so cheerful that it almost feels artificial, but perhaps that's just his posting style (@people who've played with him before). I think I might have a hard time reading him

P-edit: Ah, I see now. And yeah I probably would've asked :3

Also it's been forever since I last played a mafia game so please bear with me if I'm super rusty.

[Apricity]

VOTE: Twoface
Not just because he gets a drawing, but also because I'm curious why Aristo joined and fell off after the drawing.

I was voting him bwcause he said he wasnt a nerd.

I unvoted when he accepted the facts

Ari do you have any reads?

Is there a reason why you're picking out him in particular to ask?

[Apricity]

I agree with Varsoon and Fro99er on this one. Early red results are more useful than having a confirmed blue rn.

[Apricity]

I need to sleep you know. Good morning to you too.

[Apricity]

I like the natural curiosity in Raya's 44. Raises a lot of the same questions I had after Varsoon explained the mechanics a little. Like for example the purpose of different colors, whether we are notified of changes, etc. Does anyone know if colors are tied to actual roles at all?

Aristo is so cheerful that it almost feels artificial, but perhaps that's just his posting style (@people who've played with him before). I think I might have a hard time reading him

Why wouldn't scum have the same mechanical questions as you?

Because they come from a different perspective and would thus approach them a bit differently. It was just a thought based on his only relevant post though, so take it with a handful of salt.

Yes ari's cheerfulness is part of his personality. And he can actually be quite easy to read--if he posts content, he's almost always town. Simple as that. (Though I don't really have the experience with ari to support this, I've played with many people who do and they all agree on this.) However, he often doesn't post content even as town.

VOTE: Twoface
Not just because he gets a drawing, but also because I'm curious why Aristo joined and fell off after the drawing.

I was voting him bwcause he said he wasnt a nerd.

I unvoted when he accepted the facts

Ari do you have any reads?

Is there a reason why you're picking out him in particular to ask?

Yes, see above.

I'm still not very sure about your saying that he's town if he posts content since reads (among other things) can sometimes be faked pretty easily. But I see where you're coming from. I'll just have to figure him out myself.

[Apricity]

Can't we just color flip a scummy person and if it's red then great, and if it's blue then it has the same effect as if we color flipped and confirmed a null person?

P-edit: Having time to offer a quick opinion =/= having time to respond to stuff and read everything else. I wasn't avoiding you, and I don't know how to make you believe that if you insist otherwise.

More importantly, how is what I said about Ari any different than how you'd generally treat a person you've just encountered that you can't read easily? Wouldn't you also be a bit more wary about them and figure them out along the way? I don't get it. And it's not even a read at all, much less a "weak read" because I don't have one on him yet.

[Apricity]

VOTE: Twoface
Not just because he gets a drawing, but also because I'm curious why Aristo joined and fell off after the drawing.

I was voting him bwcause he said he wasnt a nerd.

I unvoted when he accepted the facts

Ari do you have any reads?

I like Gamma for the dumb gambit for now and I'd like a Varsoon flip, as he would be an amazing conftown to have and D1 is the only time it happens! Sadly, it also shortens his lifespan if we do this.

However,
VOTE: Varsoon

Why do you think having Varsoon as a conftown outweighs the damage of losing him so early, possibly even N1?

[Apricity]

Apricity, what do you think about aptil

I'm pretty much of the same opinion that you just stated. I had a mild townlean on him based on gut feels, but when I looked at his iso, 80-90% of it was related to game mechanics, and that's a behavior I usually think is anti-town. What I'm interested in seeing is how aptil's thoughts about jjh will develop from here once jjh responds. To me, since I understood the reasoning jjh was coming from, aptil's vote appeared a little contrived. If it was genuine confusion I guess that's different...I can't really tell currently.

Speaking of which, Infinity, you never addressed aptil when he asked you about your Varsoon vote; you just kinda dropped the vote later. Out of curiosity, was it a pressure vote or a vote for color flip?

[Apricity]

Sorry, I should've explained better. I don't think talking about mechanics itself is bad, but rather that it can be bad when it dominates the discussion, and also when someone talks way more about game mechanics than actual behaviors, because it can be a way for scum to look like they're active and contributing when all they're doing is hiding the fact that they don't have anything more substantial to say.

Hmm...I don't think it's any particular post but rather that I don't have any idea where he stands on basically every player except jjh.

Does that make more sense?

[Apricity]

I'd really like more game-oriented content from him, yeah.

[Apricity]

I do. What does that have to do with my read of him?

It wasn't like that lol, I saw it come up when I was doing an iso of aptil and I went to look at what you answered but there wasn't one, that's all.

[Apricity]

You mean the game mechanics talk? The thing with Raya was one post and a passing thought, whereas Aptil has posted quite a lot now and the vast majority of it is focused on game mechanics.

I said I understood his logic, yes, but that is by no means equivalent to saying that I agree with it.

[Apricity]

Sort of. More like I see jjh's point even though I don't personally agree with it and found his logic pretty easy to understand, so I wonder whether aptil was truly confused about it or just using that as an excuse to vote someone.

[Apricity]

Wowww that's a lot of pages. Anything that's really urgent? Otherwise I'm going back to read first.

[Apricity]

So at this point we're waiting for Twoface to show up right?

Also I need to read that again. Lots to digest.

[Apricity]

VOTE: Twoface

[Apricity]

Anyone else had some issues accessing MS for a while? I couldn't get on till now.

Ima go check out what Frog said about Twoface and Max and Raya.

[Apricity]

Oh yeah there was Twoface saying how there was like no point to voting or something that seemed odd. I'm goign to look over Max and Raya's later posts too because I don't remember much of what they said besides the beginning. For now this is plausible enough.

VOTE: Max

Gamma, what do you think is off about that post?

P-edit: Whoaaaa hold on a sec lemme read

[Apricity]

Wait Frog

I thought you were townblocing with JJ so why would you push him/why would he want you dead

I feel lost

[Apricity]

Either Max or Raya is scum based off TwoFace's flip

I will have to go back and read when I get off work.

But my knee jerk reaction likes where your vote is.

I hope you're quick about it btw. I know like nothing about what you think about anyone. And it seems like you're just echoing Frog sometimes.

[Apricity]

Vote: TwoFace

Pile 'em on lads

I might've hammered but that's alright I hope

@Mod, please draw something funny for this happenstance of me accidentally quickhammering

I'd also like to bring this up again because like Ari I also felt it sounded fake. Thoughts?

[Apricity]

It was rly weird to me how Fro99er wanted to instigate a townbloc immediately after TwoFace flipping Red and I don't feel too charmed by his recent postings

I don't feel too charmed by you suddenly shading my top townread (and I'm sure the top townread for several people).

[Apricity]

Idk about Varsoon but I think Ari is town.

P-edit: Huh? How is that shade?

[Apricity]

'and im sure the top townread for several people' looks more like a shade attempt than bomb's post imo

Also what are your thoughts after catching up

[Apricity]

Idk about Varsoon but I think Ari is town.

Varsoon made sure when I thought about leaving the wagon and starting a Bomber wagon with a few others that we stayed on course and color flipped TwoFace

there is literally NO scum motivation in that.

True. I'd forgotten about that.

[Apricity]

...But Fro99er says they're all town?

I never said the whole wagon is town

I'm saying you think all the people on the tail end of the TF wagon are town (Varsoon, Aristophanes), which is where I wanted to look for mafia.

Why do you think mafia is in these two in the first place? I'm not seeing it.

@Max that's not what I meant, but I probably should've phrased it better. It just seemed like Bomber was trying to redirect all of a sudden.

Also everything is moving too fast and I need a break to read stuff slowly.

[Apricity]

Apricity asked for thoughts and then didn't respond to stuff when answered .You should first see that aparicity.

What posts are you talking about? I'm not sure what you're asking.

[Apricity]

Yeah I know, i did what I could and it didnt pan out, oh well.

Pedit he was a townlean at the time that i consider a strong player who, if town, shouldnt be conftown that gets nightkilled immediately

Apricity if thats not what you meant, why did you bring up that frogger was a popular townread at all?

Because to me at least, Frog is someone that several people really townread, and I didn't like that Bomber seemed to be redirecting onto him for the sake of creating confusion. Frankly I'm not sure how to answer you beyond that because it's like asking me why did you use this particular word instead of a synonym or something? I didn't think too much about it and voiced it more as something I just believed to be fact. I probably don't make sense right now but idk how else to explain it.

[Apricity]

Sorry Aptil, I think I missed it in the midst of the deluge of posts and conversations. I'll go back to it now.

[Apricity]

Vote: TwoFace

Pile 'em on lads

I might've hammered but that's alright I hope

@Mod, please draw something funny for this happenstance of me accidentally quickhammering

I'd also like to bring this up again because like Ari I also felt it sounded fake. Thoughts?

Those eod votes at first thought i was thinking it was scummy but then i thought Two face would have hammered anyways . Any scum other than him must have joined before them . These two probably were the least scummy there.

Twoface did hammer. Though it also occurred to me that some of those who weren't on the Twoface wagon also fall into the category of low posters, so it's possible that they may have just been inactive at the time.
Who are you referring to by "these two"? Bomber and someone else?

[Apricity]

Oh yeah my bad, Ari quickhammered the actual lynch but Twoface hammered his color flip.

So you think scum would be earlier on the wagon? Even if Twoface didn't plan on self hammering?

[Apricity]

I got the color flip and the actual lynch confused for a second.

[Apricity]

Apricity, thoughts on Gamma?

I'll get back to you on this soon; I haven't had time to sort that slot yet and I also want to read the last couple pages again more slowly.

[Apricity]

@Frog, you asked me about Gamma. The following posts in particular stand out to me as ones I don't like.

TwoFace [7] - Fro99er, Apricity, Havo, jjh927, Infinity 324, Varsoon, Aristophanes

@Bomber

so who's the scum on the wagon?

pedit: who's saying we have to focus off the wagon?

...But Fro99er says they're all town?
My wagon analysis makes me not want to believe Frog boy here

lol k
I mean I'll just be conftown if you colorflip me so go ahead and make me impossible to push

...But Fro99er says they're all town?

I never said the whole wagon is town

I'm saying you think all the people on the tail end of the TF wagon are town (Varsoon, Aristophanes), which is where I wanted to look for mafia.

I think mafia would hop on late when it was a lost cause

Wrong, because it was a lost cause when TwoFace color flipped red and had already admitted he was scum in the color flip phase.

That means mafia has every incentive to get on as soon as they log on.

Wait he claimed mafia
UGH I really need to read ASAP

He's pushing for Varsoon and Ari, and never answered me iirc about why he thought those two were scum in the first place. And switched very very quickly when you explained why you think they're town imo. The last post and the one about making him impossible to push don't sound genuine.

[Apricity]

Also PSA, I'm a girl.

[Apricity]

Also I feel like Gamma has a lot of posts that don't really say much? There's a decent amount of posts but not actually that much content I can grasp.

[Apricity]

I like your townlist except for Ari and jjh.

Why don't you like these two?

[Apricity]

Interesting. I'll go back and look at that.

If y'all want to color flip me that's fine, but I'd like to VOTE: Gamma today. The only issue is that iirc Gamma voted Aptil and that's another slot I'm not completely sure about.

[Apricity]

Both gave me the sense they didnt want Twoface flipped.

So I looked, and for Jjh I can see why you feel that because of the whole Bomber issue, but I'm not really seeing this with Ari? More the opposite. Can you elaborate?

[Apricity]

I remember where I played w Apricity before, knew I recognized her but not from where. She bugged me in Evolution mafia too iirc, and she was town there. Obviously that doesnt make her town here but I don't hate the Gamma scumread and I rly doubt she's scum with him.

Also not relevant but I knew I recognized you from somewhere too! Were you with EP?

[Apricity]

Did people just ignore the fact that Aptil self-voted himself for a minute to feign that he didn't care about being flipped and then backed out and went onto gamma when he 'didn't like his post'

Where would this town be if they didn't have me to speak out on controversial topics like this one

I remember this--I have a little scumread on him. Which still bothers me like I mentioned earlier because I feel that he and Gamma definitely don't go together so it's probably one or the other.

[Apricity]

Why do you think there's scum in those three rather than TvT? I was actually thinking that after the recent exchanges I like jjh quite a bit more than previously.

[Apricity]

Why do you think there's scum in those three rather than TvT? I was actually thinking that after the recent exchanges I like jjh quite a bit more than previously.

What about jjh do you like here ?

The way he articulated and then reconsidered his read on me seemed like a pretty natural evolving thought process, for starters. Originally when he voted me I thought he was just jumping onto the wagon that had the most support without acknowledging that fact (the "can we just get a wagon going" line). But when he was talking with Varsoon about it--last post on the previous page in particular--it looked genuine, and I think scum would have pushed forward in scumreading me, trying to maintain the momentum on my wagon.

I also think his concern about you was pretty valid re. Bomberman. Your contradiction in saying the quasi-hammer cleared him to saying that outside of it he's still scum was odd to me too, and I'm still not that sure about your explanation.

[Apricity]

I doubt you're in a team with Bomber. But that's not really the point.

[Apricity]

Still want to flip Gamma today though, if that's still a thing that can happen. We probably don't have much time left.

[Apricity]

Because it looks like you're trying to cater to every side by saying Bomber's town but could also be scum. Makes me confused as to where you really stand.

I thought I just did? You just responded by saying basically "but yeah he totally thought you were scum." He's not entirely off the mark with his comments because I do tend to have a more passive approach sometimes, but as for bringing up things that don't advance discussion, I obviously don't agree there. As I said, I liked the way he re-evaluated his read of me later and thought about possible scum motivations. Although I'll have to see where he takes that from here because the initial vote looked a whole lot like bandwagoning for the sake of it.

[Apricity]

I thought I was the biggest wagon? Or did that change

@Mod can we get a votecount?

[Apricity]

Okay. First,

He was painted and ipped. I say we lynch him and assume the paint ability is one shot per night. This means thay we can truse the results more as we go and dont have to worry about the wine of his flip later.

It's sound theory

This post here bothers me to no end and feels like he's trying to rush the game before we talk things out

Second, someone said scum don't have blue paint? What about red paint? Do we know whether scum has that or not?

JJ, I feel like it'd be one hell of a coincidence because then 1) scum had to target you and pick red specifically assuming they have that, 2) this hypothetical town blue painter had to target you too, and 3) on top of that we just happened to color flip you today. I'm not sure how plausible that is.

[Apricity]

Ari, is that in keeping with what you said earlier about just lynching jjh anyways?

I'm not liking Raya that much. Original "catch-up" which consisted of "I agree with this post" was bad. Nitpicking at Max when his point about jjh's post-colorflip responses was perfectly valid is also icky to me.

Raya, how do you feel about other players?

[Apricity]

Raya, this is the post I'm referring to:

@Frogger Literally just caught up!

lol k
I mean I'll just be conftown if you colorflip me so go ahead and make me impossible to push

Fro99er, can I request a soft restart on your thoughts on me? Just back to the beginning of d2. I got confused about which wagon was posted.

I think mafia would hop on late when it was a lost cause

None of these set well with me.

Also, looking through Gamma's ISO, there is NO scum hunting at all. There is no game solving going on.

I agree with you on this. The first quote seems too much like they are trying to avoid getting colourflipped which would be strange for town. Other than the risk of getting lynched for being nearly conftown and taking awau the possibility of colourflipping someone red there is no reason for town not to want to flip. Happy with a vote here.

VOTE: Gamma

[Apricity]

There was decent support for the Gamma colorflip wagon. That was the slot I wanted to flip. I'm not sure if I'd still want to lynch him today though, and Ari's been bothering me more as of late.

Lmao, I'll be happy if I get somewhere in 50-75 next year. Did anyone else get a new name color?

[Apricity]

We have 20 hours to put a wagon together and I buy Ari's unvote so unless a lot more people turn up to discuss what we're doing then it's

VOTE: Gamma

I don't actually think Gamma is scum, but his flip will tell me where to look for the scum.

If he's town, then both scum can be off my wagon. If he's scum, then the last scum is on my wagon.

Can you explain how you're reaching that conclusion? I don't really get it.

[Apricity]

VOTE: Aptil

Still think it's either Aptil or Gamma (now Penguin I suppose)--I agree with Bomber; can't see why scum wouldn't NK someone, unless there's some other roles in the mix. Gotta check who pushed JJ though.

[Apricity]

I'd be down with flipping Gamma/Penguin. But with all the talk about him yesterday, I don't know if he would be unpainted either.

[Apricity]

How come Frog? I think there's a decent chance he was painted since he was the main wagon not too long ago.

Max, I have no idea. It doesn't make sense for them not to kill if they could. Protective/blocking roles maybe, or perhaps scum also shot JJ for some reason.

P-edit: Okay nvm Frog.

[Apricity]

Gah, I fell asleep. What's the votecount on Penguin?

[Apricity]

Sorry! I've had a lot going on these past few days. Where are we at with flips/lynches? Anything urgent I should look at first?

[Apricity]

Skimmed quickly. I've been thinking that scum is in Gamma/Aptil for a while but now I feel pretty frustrated read-wise and I'm going back and forth on Ari. I'm going to look at Havo and Bomber now though because I don't remember their stances very well.

I still don't get why Raya in particular was picked as the last-minute lynch the other day.

[Apricity]

I know I'm a hard slot to read right now, and it's nobody's fault but my own for that. Honestly, like I alluded to before, I'm feeling very lost. Maybe it's because I dropped mafia for almost a year until this game but I'm finding it exceedingly difficult to parse everything. Havo pretty much stated what I feel right now--I was so sure it was GammaPenguin or Aptil but now I have no idea. The only things I feel certain about are that I townread Frog, Varsoon, and Max. I don't think it's Bomberman somehow. I've felt off about Ari for a while; will search out the specific posts tomorrow. Aptil...the lack of NK still bothers me but I've gone back and forth on him. Havo still no idea but his recent frustration feels genuine I suppose.

All I can ask for is more time to read stuff and try to make some sense of things. But if you all decide to lynch me today, I wouldn't blame you. I've played like crap.

[Apricity]

Frog I'll get back to you on Max soon. I'm semi-V/LA for a few days but I should still be able to keep up and post a bit almost every day.

[Apricity]

Haven't read since last post, but I'll be back from V/LA tomorrow night and will get back into the swing of things then. I'm very sorry for my lack of activity. Not lurking. I've just had much less time than I thought I did.

Still have a feeling it's not Bomberman though.

[Apricity]

I am back after some unexpected travel delay issues.

I don't really agree with the Ari townread. I think it's either Ari or Havo. As a side note, remember when Aptil said that given the choice between Twoface and Bomber he'd take Bomber? That doesn't really make sense to me if both of them are scum.

[Apricity]

July 4 is an awkward time for activity :/

VOTE: Aristophanes

Either Ari or Havo colorflip today, I don't really mind which.

[Apricity]

I guess I'm fine with that too. Would still rather a Havo/Ari colorflip over Bomber though.

[Apricity]

My heart says I will flip blue, so regardless of what happens I will remain true to my heart.

Cause I'm not scum lmao

Okay but this post sounds ???

[Apricity]

I'm VT as well.

What's the votecount?

[Apricity]

So I'm not the only one with this read.

VOTE: Ari

Varsoon, if you've made a town!Ari case I'd like to see it again. According to Havo you've got him as your highest townread and I don't get why.

[Apricity]

I'm so bad at this

I don't want to vote Bomber though. Or even Havo.

[Apricity]

Is Max clear just based on Frog's primary color detector? Red and blue are both primary though :O

[Apricity]

I KNEW IT

I started really suspecting around the time we were talking about Havo and Bomberman (basically the last Day before I died) and when I asked Varsoon for a town!Ari case I got a bad feeling about it.

Bleh. Good job though Varsoon; that was well done.