Mini 1928 - Villain Mafia - GAME OVER

[Treblesome]

confirming as town

[Treblesome]

Hi I am a town ama

[Treblesome]

If you eat enough apple pancakes you become town

[Treblesome]

Hi TTH I'm bussing you this game. It's nothing personal, I just want loads of towncred.

VOTE: TTH

[Treblesome]

VOTE: Carcalilly

Actually I'm going to bus you instead, I've heard you're very enthusiastic about it.

[Treblesome]

TTH will love you if you help me bus her.

VOTE: TTH

[Treblesome]

VOTE: Radical Rat

[Treblesome]

Radical Rat is a hydra of Aristophanes and RadiantCowbells, so yes.

[Treblesome]

No more talking.
Just lynch my friend rc

UNVOTE:

what's all this now

[Treblesome]

Since when are we talking about rc and ari

[vot
VOTE: carcalilly

mason partners should vote this person too.

Stumbling over his words when he tries to vote Carcalilly the first time.

I have zero trust in Fire right now

this guy is probably his scum buddy

Flat tone with little emphasis or inflection.

sorry, her.

Takes too long of a break between sorry and her.


His vocal patterns clearly show that he's scum.

VOTE: Hiplop

[Treblesome]

Hey I'm part of the masonry too but vocal patterns don't lie. Blame Vonflare for introducing a scum mason.

[Treblesome]

That's 'vocal patterns'

[Treblesome]

*EBWOP: Sorry just noticed they were correcting binsbulge. I take it back, if they mention it twice more they are probably scum.

Antitown's vocal patterns are extremely formal and rigid and it feels like they're trying to project a false image of confidence.

I feel like his vocal patterns would be more natural if he were town because right now it feels like he has to force every word through.

VOTE: Antitown

[Treblesome]

If I vote by pointing my hand, what pertinence do my vocal patterns have to my vote?

CHECKMATE ATHEISTS

[Treblesome]

I mean I could vote Fuzzy. There's actual scum motivation there unlike RR who feels just bad.

[Treblesome]

VOTE: Fuzzylogic

[Treblesome]

RC, is that you?
If so, you're making me sad.

Why

[Treblesome]

I am super confident in my ability to read Bins so I'm not really interested in trying to wagon the hydra right now.

I agree with your RR read ftr and I think that you're town.

[Treblesome]

Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

[Treblesome]

Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

gimmie a hug

Aww!

*hug*

[Treblesome]

Wait a second...

[Treblesome]

Apricity's not here yet but I felt like

well Fire is at l-2

if we keep you alive you prob sink the town if we kill you might hurt the town
fine

Vote Fire

I think keeping you around will be worse than killing you .

was just making excuses for an absolutely shitty vote in the hope that the wagon would go through

[Treblesome]

I mean I think it's sort of obvious that Firebringer didn't have a vengekill and I wouldn't expect him to actually be worried about it?

[Treblesome]

You're making a fundamental assumption that 1) Fuzzylogic takes Fire's vengeful claim seriously and 2) feels threatened by it. I think that neither are true.

[Treblesome]

And for the record I'm not like super hard scumreading Fuzzy but Apricity hasn't been here and I don't really have anything atm.

[Treblesome]

I mean I think that he's

dumb

but I think that he can be both

dumb

and smart enough to realize how he's interpreted and play up certain things.

Who would you prefer we be voting right now?

[Treblesome]

I never lost faith in you over these many years.

[Treblesome]

I agree with that.

VOTE: Snarky

[Treblesome]

As much as I like bossy bitch mode TTH, I like my vote right now so you should come join me on Snarky.

[Treblesome]

@_@

[Treblesome]

The current level of lurk is not at all acceptable ftr.

[Treblesome]

As much as I like bossy bitch mode TTH, I like my vote right now so you should come join me on Snarky.

I really hope we're still doing the trolly dance on the "bossy bitch" thing because as I start getting serious I'm not really trying to be either.
I also don't really want to vote Snarky after that pagetop vote. :/

Well, maybe I would be open to being bossed around every once in a while.

[Treblesome]

also I don't think that you're a bossy bitch at all.

[Treblesome]

As much as I like bossy bitch mode TTH, I like my vote right now so you should come join me on Snarky.

I really hope we're still doing the trolly dance on the "bossy bitch" thing because as I start getting serious I'm not really trying to be either.
I also don't really want to vote Snarky after that pagetop vote. :/

Well, maybe I would be open to being bossed around every once in a while.

Just so you know, this was an invitation.

[Treblesome]

VOTE: Madvillains

Well I'm voting there anyway.

[Treblesome]

VOTE: Fuzzy

Still worse actually. bye.

[Treblesome]

Does anyone want to fucking play the game?

[Treblesome]

Right so I've known this was scum for a while.

VOTE: Firebringer

[Treblesome]

You as town would not be seriously attempting to analyze the mason claim that I didn't even make, it was started by Hiplop.

You're simultaneously comparing it to a scum strategy whereby I seriously claimed masons to keep you alive to discredit the townread while accusing Bins of buddying town!me.

[Treblesome]

You as town would not be seriously attempting to analyze the mason claim that I didn't even make, it was started by Hiplop.

You're simultaneously comparing it to a scum strategy whereby I seriously claimed masons to keep you alive to discredit the townread while accusing Bins of buddying town!me.

LolZ

And that's not Firebringer's reaction as town, regardless of his read on me.
That's scum!Firebringer who wants to discredit my read on me in the same way that he did in our previous game by making it seem like a joke.
He's also indirectly trying to bring up the idea that this is some sort of inevitable scumread when I have no track record of mislynching him as town.

[Treblesome]

Say what you want to say.

[Treblesome]

I'm replacing out if people don't start playing the game. This isn't okay.

[Treblesome]

IKR
talk to me treble

Hi. What are your reads looking like?

[Treblesome]

I'm replacing out if people don't start playing the game. This isn't okay.

You might find this very amusing but I think I am only one who is playing.

I don't consider you lockscum but I do think that, balance of probabilities, you are flipping scum this game.
If you're just going to troll in response to that then I will probably lynch you for it.

[Treblesome]

I mean you discredited my entire push on you and implied that I'm not playing the game. I'm not sure how I'm supposed to interpret that.

[Treblesome]

Steel, Snarky, and Raya have all done nothing this game. Hippy hydra has done virtually nothing. I want stuff to happen.

VOTE: Snarky

Let's wagon lurkers until they start doing stuff.

[Treblesome]

People gonna continue to scumread for no reason?

I'll earmark this for tomorrow, I'll spell it out when I have a second and a computer.
In the meantime, why are you townreading RC?

Are you not?

[Treblesome]

So correct me if I'm wrong but the case on Madvillain is that they didn't scumread Carcalilly (whom I think is town) and that they're townreading me (whom I know is town.)
I understand tonal scumreads on the slot but that's entirely NAI because her tone is always scummy and if anything her tone is better when she's scum.

I'm not confident in any read there but Bins has done nothing to specifically make me scumread them and it's a shit case.

VOTE: Firebringer

Steel just got active, carcalily

What's your point?

Treblesome I do not see the scum motivation from firebringer doing that analysis, when he was not using it to push or scumread you.

Why shouldn't he not take my scumread on him seriously when he knows that he can get the rest of the game to not take it seriously either?

How comes everyone refers to treblesome as rc, has apricity not said anything yet?

Apricity has been on V/LA and she hasn't been around.

Also I'm pretty sure that Fuzzy is town just by virtue of his interactions with Fire.

[Treblesome]

If we're not wagoning Firebringer we're going to get Snarky or Raya to actually do stuff.

[Treblesome]

Why shouldn't he not take my scumread on him seriously when he knows that he can get the rest of the game to not take it seriously either?

How?

Firebringer was townread by several slots from the beginning of the game. It's very easy for him to not take my read seriously so he doesn't have to address it.
This lobby has a lot of strong personalities besides mine that don't take my reads particularly seriously so it's not a situation where I can just call him scum and lynch him.
And for the record: the entire vengeful situation was absolutely not alignment indicative in any way. He would have decided to do it from pregame regardless of alignment.

[Treblesome]

People gonna continue to scumread for no reason?

I'll earmark this for tomorrow, I'll spell it out when I have a second and a computer.
In the meantime, why are you townreading RC?

Are you not?

I kind of, sort of am? Instinctively, I'm inclined to think the reaching out to me you've done this game is more likely to come from town-you, but the read is still developing.
I'm not asking because I think it's wrong to townread you. I'n asking because I want to get a sense of where Madvillian is coming from and how their reads are being synthesized.

Okay, fair enough.
If you townread me for reaching out to you do I get to scumread you for telling me to get out of your face?

So correct me if I'm wrong but the case on Madvillain is that they didn't scumread Carcalilly (whom I think is town) and that they're townreading me (whom I know is town.)
I understand tonal scumreads on the slot but that's entirely NAI because her tone is always scummy and if anything her tone is better when she's scum.

You're not wrong so much as a little imprecise.
My issue with the Carcalilly thing wasn't really the read given. It was more that Bins threw in a little shit line in Post 119 about how she would "bring it up" to Bulge when the presentation of the combined scumreads made it look like a sync already happened, which I still think would yield

something

on Carcalilly. That hit my gut the wrong way because it felt more to me like Bins was just saying what hiplop, who had just voted Carca, wanted to hear.
I also pretty thoroughly hate their immediate response to my vote which was to discredit me and imply I'm scummy for pushing them (Post 124) before they tried to figure out where I was coming from or what I was thinking.

I recall Bins from Gistou but other than that I don't remember playing any other games with her. What previous games do you recommend to get a baseline on tone?

I don't really have an answer to reading Bins. After Slavic Music mafia I found her really easy to read and I'm not really sure where that development came from.
That's probably your best option in terms of understanding where my read on her comes from but this is sort of a black box situation where I can usually tell what Bins is but can't put words to it.

I am 90% convinced mad villain is scum at this point btw.
Just by the feel of reactions and their reads/conclusions.

I also get feel they are hoping that RC just pushes focus on me or something and their wagon gets ignored.

Why would this be alignment indicative if they (claim to) townread you?

On my whole fuzzy thing I think and this is bad but I think his vote on me was a "too scummy to be scum" as terrible as that is.
Fuzzy doesn't seem to have nerve for quick day I don't think as scum and definitely not in manner he did.

It bothers me that you took a random potshot at me earlier for coming to the same conclusion with essentially the same reasoning.
I also agree with RC's assessment of your initial response as weird. How did you know RC would vote you (Post 323)? Is there some sort of context I'm missing? RC himself is already denying it exists (Post 329).

It bothers me too which is why I said "this is bad"
Me calling you out is because i think it's bad reasoning.

I think I am more on "fuzzy doesn't behave like this as scum" more than that.

And yes, me and rc do this dance nearly every early game. I am kind of bored with it, but he needs to sort me someway so it's whatever. Not too upset with it.

Go find games where I rando scumread you at the start of the game. I'll wait.

[Treblesome]

Like I agree on some level what she's doing with my slot is objectively scummy but I've seen it come from town!Bins and it doesn't really feel like scum to me so I don't really feel like dealing with it

I didn't say it was random
I said you just tend to suspect me early....

I really don't want to do meta dive here rc.
I am not trying to discredit you at all.

I just kind of take your scumread with a grain of salt.
If you still have a scum read on me after page 40 or something I'll take it much more serious

Well okay. If you're town I will figure that out and we can be on the same page. Besides Madvillains, who do you think is scum?

[Treblesome]

Hey, Apricity here I was at orientation. I'm following RC on Fire but I also don't like Snarky or Raya/Scorp rn. Or Carca but we need to talk that one out some more.

Also TTH you bullied RC and now he's sad

[Treblesome]

okay so there was literally no reason for apricity to say that and I said something to her about that. I'm not easily hurt at all and I'm not sad, I was just surprised by the get out of my face thing.

[Treblesome]

okay so there was literally no reason for apricity to say that and I said something to her about that. I'm not easily hurt at all and I'm not sad, I was just surprised by the get out of my face thing.

That wasn't serious. I was responding to Post 283 in an exaggeratedly bossy manner to maximize situational irony.
I probably should've used " " to indicate that, but that's such an ugly emoticon. Sorry, RC.

zzz I wasn't actually upset.

I also don't like Snarky or Raya/Scorp rn

Good enough place to start as any..

Why?

Well I feel like Snarky's reads are terrible and it feels like he's just declaring reads he thinks he can get away with to pretend he's contributing.
I had a minor gut scumread on Raya.

That said, I'm not the hydra that said it and you will have to ask her later.

[Treblesome]

Fire I find it really difficult to believe that TTH is your strongest scumread right now.

[Treblesome]

UNVOTE: for now.

[Treblesome]

@Fuzzy, Scorp:

Basically what RC said about Snarky. Taking a strong stance against Fuzzy but saying not to lynch him yet. Also (I think someone may have said this already but I don't remember who) the firm Steel townread is weird for someone who can't even read enough to know who RC is. Like he's just tossing them out to make it look like he's doing something.

As for Raya, I think her entry sounded incredibly forced, even for RVS joking around. Then she basically doubled down on Fuzzy except for that random question about masons. Not much content besides that, but hopefully Scorp can rectify that.

[Treblesome]

I honestly can go along with TTH scum as well.

who tf is scorpious and since when were they in this game

I need Bulge to do stuff because he knows I'm out of town rn ahhhasd.

Scorp replaced Raya.

Why TTH tho

[Treblesome]

Treblesome is weak.

What exactly does this mean?

[Treblesome]

Also, I feel like this should be claimed since the mason situation has dominated some of the discussion:

Myself, Lady and the Tramp, and Madvillains belong to a neighbourhood whereby at day 3 the amount of living scum in the neighbourhood will be confirmed.

We're not lynching in the 3 of us until we know whether or not the group contains any scum.

[Treblesome]

I really don't think you could've explained it more clearly than Treblesome just did.
What are you confused about?

I'll just ask you then. Is a claim like that to be accepted without question.

Why do you ask this question?

[Treblesome]

honestly

you promised me

you're never gonna let me find you fake it

no no no

[Treblesome]

I'm super sketched out by how quick everyone was to discard the claim

[Treblesome]

VOTE: Scorpious

Claim was fake and his reaction to it was by far the worst; I feel like he knew it was fake flat out.
That also suggests that one of those two is scum-aligned and my quick pick would be LaTT given the way that Madvillains is getting wagoned.

[Treblesome]

Do scum have daytalk?

[Treblesome]

How delayed is delayed?

UNVOTE:

[Treblesome]

VOTE: Scorpious

[Treblesome]

Presumably 1/2 of {Madvillains/LaTT}, and then it could be basically anyone in the game.

[Treblesome]

I honestly feel right now like he's just stalling for time on the vig claim. I don't see what his motivation is with regards to refusing to give us a timeline for the claim.

[Treblesome]

Yeah, that's not happening.

I'm willing to not lynch Scorpious today if we leash his target and have a clear timeline on when the shot is supposed to go through. Otherwise he dies today.

[Treblesome]

Yeah, this isn't a town win.
Scorpious claims to have an unroleblockable vig: let's leash the shot onto someone. If we do that with the stipulation that he gets lynched if he doesn't make the shot as we have said, I'm willing to vote elsewhere else.

I don't think that Antitown is scum. Can we vote Snarky?

[Treblesome]

You're not actually being shitty and awful at all and it's funny that you came to that conclusion about Anti/Cheetory having a distorted view of themselves you didn't extend that to thinking that maybe you were doing an equally poor job of judging your own toxicity. At your very worst in games I've seen you be annoying and pushy but I've never actually seen you be a dick and I don't think that's ever happened.

[Treblesome]

I don't really have a read on Bins or Bulge right now but I feel like I would be explicitly scumreading them already if they were scum, which makes me think they're town.

Also, I'd like to point out that several people have framed Snarky as a lurker wagon. No one is pushing him as a lurker wagon. We're pushing him because he's taken boring stances that feel like an attempt to have stances for their own sake, there's information that he should have if he has done the reading that he claimed to, and that he's shown up whenever he gets mentioned which indicates that he's present but lurks the rest of the time. Like I've seen Snarky lurk before and I've townread him in games where he's done nothing. This isn't at all one of those games and if he's actually town then forcing him to do shit is good anyway. There's reasons to think that he's scum that are nothing to do with lurking: I have no issues systematically lynching everyone soft defending him by claiming that this is a lurker lynch if he flips scum. If you think that he's town, give an actual reason that isn't 'well he gets lynched a lot for lurking.'

[Treblesome]

Like you have two alternatives: leash the vig onto him and call it a day or ignore him and leave him to LyLo when he's objectively one of the worst slots in the game.

Everyone who is saying 'well hes lurking so bad lynch': what do you propose that we do about him?

[Treblesome]

Aaaaa

Why do you townread Scorpious exactly?

[Treblesome]

Would you be willing to sort out multiple problems at once and force Scorp to target Snarky and lynch them both if the shot doesn't end up happening?

[Treblesome]

How confident are you in Mad scum? Can you give a little more detail?

[Treblesome]

Okay.
For the record: Apricity is sort of scumreading Villains but isn't following up because I'm not comfortable there. (At least, she was when she last posted in PT)
I trust your reads, and I don't strictly speaking townread them. If you're confident enough that they're scum to be

bossy

about my vote then I'll vote with you there.

That said, I agree with what you said about Fitz and think he's a lot more likely to flip scum than Villains, so I would be much happier voting them if Scorp/Snarky are off.

[Treblesome]

Because I'm looking to work with RC today.

......

If this becomes a game where rc dictates lynches.
Ugh.

I don't understand why this is such an issue for you, especially when I've gone out of my way to try to not play single player mafia this game.

[Treblesome]

Don't get me wrong I don't think that you're faking. Regardless of alignment I believe that you're sincere but I don't know what exactly you want me to do differently here.

Can I get a readslist from you, unrelated?

[Treblesome]

Read on us specifically?

[Treblesome]

Would you be willing to sort out multiple problems at once and force Scorp to target Snarky and lynch them both if the shot doesn't end up happening?

Scorpious?

[Treblesome]

"Leave rc alive, scum will figure it out. If ur alive at LYLO with him do vengeful"
That's what note says

Yeah, I'm not going to play this game.

VOTE: Firebringer

[Treblesome]

I have zero expectation of making LyLo this game, but I am not okay with your approach to my slot being to policy lynch me for being alive for x days.
I've had enough of the mentaility that that's an okay way to deal with me and all it ever does is makes me lose as town. I don't suddenly start dying as scum.

[Treblesome]

If ur alive at LYLO with him do vengeful

Policy venge is the exact same thing. It boils down to 'Hi I can't read you so if you're town and make LyLo losing the game is acceptable losses.'

[Treblesome]

That's not what I said. I said that I'm not okay with that being a thing in games that I'm in.

[Treblesome]

How is that fair to either of us?

[Treblesome]

Yes, the alternative is that if you don't have a reason to think that I'm scum and balance of probabilities I'm town you don't policy lynch me for being alive at a certain point of the game.

Furthermore unlike the vast majority of people you have correctly scumread me in multiple games so it's not like you have nothing to go off of besides waiting until LyLo.

I flagrantly don't understand why you have such an issue here.

[Treblesome]

I don't think that you can read me very well but you're definitely not gigabytetroubadour level unable to read me.

[Treblesome]

Waiting to hear from Apricity before I vote anyone here.

[Treblesome]

685 is one of the most terrible posts that I've ever read for the record.

Actually I'm just going to vote here. Apricity you are free to unvote if you have an issue.

VOTE: Fitz

[Treblesome]

I'm fine with where our vote is.

Comm, if you're going to catch up you should do it soon. What was that about one mafia faction though? How do you know that?

[Treblesome]

Even if he's not groupscum and is some sort of killing role he could be serial killer.

We leash the shot or we lynch him imo.

[Treblesome]

So yeah: I'm not leaving him to random shoot. No one has backed me up on insisting he be leashed so if he's some sort of scum with a vig he's just going to shoot wherever and I wouldn't be surprised if he just shoots us and makes the excuse tomorrow that we were trying to leash him and walks away. We should be lynching here today.

VOTE: Scorpious

[Treblesome]

And yes, scum vigilantes are reasonably rare but I had one in Elemental Trinity. SKs on the other hand are near omnipresent in role madness games, and making the shot unroleblockable feels more like a modifier given to a serial killer to prevent the shot from being shut down and leaving him to hipfire is a super shitty idea.

Assuming we lynched Fitz and he flipped scum, either Firebringer or Villains.
Assuming we lynched Fitz and he flipped town, either Firebringer or Carcalilly.

I sort of townread Comm opening by saying that the game looked solo scum team unless the game turns out to be multiball or we have reason to believe that the scumteam is 2p.

[Treblesome]

also i called this rvs
sheeping me

This is sort of weird and makes me feel like this might be an attempt to grab some of the towncred for a bus.
I'm liking Carca less and less as the day goes on and if this is town I could see this as her being scum just not caring what happens.
Fire's just been generally awful the entire day phase and I've seen this cheeky scum routine that he's pulling here every time he's rolled scum this year.

[Treblesome]

And we're not leaving an either or for the record, we're giving him one target, but that's who I'm generally okay with.

[Treblesome]

But Scorpious has said nothing giving any indication that they intend to follow a leash and his 'oh who would you all target' is a clear signal that he's not going to shoot where we've told him.

I'm fairly certain he's scum of some sort regardless of anything else.

[Treblesome]

Sure, but only if Fitz flips scum.

[Treblesome]

if scorp were town he would have gotten lynched.

VOTE: Fuzzylogic

[Treblesome]

unsurprisingly scorpious tried to kill me last night

VOTE: Scorpious

[Treblesome]

Unless someone else claims dragged into the sewer I'm assuming that this is FG's game all over again with another stupid scum vig role.

[Treblesome]

Oh lol

okay I think it was a jailkeeper

[Treblesome]

Scorpious, who did you target?

[Treblesome]

@Vonflare does that imply that LaTT at the time of dying was not 1-shot bulletproof?

[Treblesome]

Oh, I didn't know that the flavour locked it in as Scorpious.

VOTE: Scorpious

I thought it might be a jailkeeper because I assumed that there had been 2 killing actions that targetted Lady and the Tramp because he had a 1-shot bulletproof.

[Treblesome]

That would also be an explanation but I don't think that he was actually bulletproof.

[Treblesome]

Vonflare said he won as a mime. The hopeful section encompasses the 1-shot bulletproof section, so I'm assuming neither the bulletproof nor the serial killer bit was active.

[Treblesome]

Hopeful means conditional basically.

[Treblesome]

I'm really confused about Hiplop's role because I feel like they would have made the Firebringer kill but them killing implies strongman or double kill.

If someone else made the Firebringer kill that confirms Scorpious as scum at any rate.

[Treblesome]

I think it's really cancerous that this is twice that people think it's worth scumclaiming to get rid of me, but sure. bye.

[Treblesome]

Okay so. Point of confusion.
How did L&T win? They weren't lynched....

Also, if anyone targetted me last night, say so now.

Mime is not Jester. I'm not sure what their wincon was. I believe their wincon was to die night 1 given the masonizer claim.

[Treblesome]

What does it do?

[Treblesome]

I'm not going to be around and I'm pretty sure the kill directed at me is strongman so you're probably better off directing it at someone else.

Also, vote Scorpious.

[Treblesome]

Wait a second is mind duel some sort of like desperado thing? Did you guys kill LaTT?

[Treblesome]

I'm not going to be around and I'm pretty sure the kill directed at me is strongman so you're probably better off directing it at someone else.

Also, vote Scorpious.

Actually, the claim was PSEUDO Strongman. Which means you can totally be saved. Do you happen to know when you will die?

Pretty sure that Pennywise is an actual strongman who claimed pseudo strongman and also possesses a 1-shot vig.
There's 2 3rd party flips. There's no way that the scumteam is 3 members and those roles make sense on the same member.
If there's a doctor they should absolutely be on me but I'm pretty sure that I'm dead here.

Now, wouldn't the correct townie response be something like.. "You're an idiot Scorpious, Im town.." ? I would think, but no.. You're immediate response is to try to wagon me. I was a little drunk last night,and almost cancelled my action

The town reaction is to go back and note that you never said anything that implied that you scumread me. You targeted me for scumreading you.
The only person whom you actually called out yesterday was Madvillains and that was who I was expecting you to target.

[Treblesome]

Also, no one is to lynch or put them to L-1.

[Treblesome]

I'm not actually sure about lynching Scorp.

While I agree it was a REALLY bad choice of shot, it does more or less confirm the role he claimed, which I know I certainly wouldn't have claimed if I were scum. Vig, maybe. But giving so much information that we can easily tell that HE is the one who killed his target? Seems a bit of an odd scumplay to me.

I think that he thinks he can get away with him.

I'm not leaving alive a vig who is making these shots.

[Treblesome]

In the end it comes down to the fact that he just vigged a universal townread because they scumread him and tried to leash his shot.

I've considered that he can be town but setup spec wise I feel like this is how Vonflare gives scum a vig role and you can't really leave him alive here.

Doesn't matter.. you still die

And I flip town. I hope that you don't.

[Treblesome]

We cannot target folks until a doctor dies.

[Treblesome]

C'mon people. You are supposed to be good at this. I'm not..

I figured I would be confirmed town at this point..

You just vigged the most obvtown person in the game by far and you didn't play with me at any of the right times to hide behind paranoia of my scum game.

No one is going to write you off as town for possessing a vig role in a VF game with all the flips that have happened and no one is going to risk leaving you alive even then.

[Treblesome]

stop the kill if a doctor or jailkeeper would be so inclined. I would imagine scum would like their kills to go through, and not be caught in the process.

This is the issue. Why if he isn't strongman and wants the kill to go through does he keep telling me exactly when the kill goes through so that the doc can handle it?
I think that his kill is just strongman and that it's over at this point.

And don't get me wrong I still see the possibility that he's town and that he basically just handed scum the game but I'm fine with just losing in that universe.
This really wasn't fair to me and I think a policy lynch at the very least is merited for something as terrible as making that target selection if it came from town.

[Treblesome]

If I have another day just lynch Scorpious now.

[Treblesome]

I find it really hard to care about this game anymore.

[Treblesome]

I took a shot. Fwiw. I did pine over iso's for quite awhile..

It wasnt just a random shot..

fuck you you shot me because I scumread you.

[Treblesome]

You made your decisions.

[Treblesome]

I'm not going to give reads on people besides Scorpious as if not lynching him is an acceptable outcome of today.

[Treblesome]

I made the claim to cover for Hiplop claiming masonizer in thread so they wouldn't get guaranteed nightkilled and to get people off of Villains. There's no hood and no reveal.

[Treblesome]

I'll feel really dumb if Bins is scum because I feel really pocketed right now

[Treblesome]

well at the same time you know I'd deathtunnel that and I'm the main reason you're still alive. so your self meta is lol

but the case on madvillains is really shitty. they never really tried to hide in the mason claim: they did stuff while it was active and they never went down the 'don't lynch cuz mason!' route, and I don't think they would if scum. Whereas Scorpious's sudden 180 to omg what have I done feels so, so terrible to me. Fitz is probably my #2.

Also, protectives should be on TTH because they're my highest townread. The kill on me is probably not stoppable.

[Treblesome]

Villains, can you claim outright what your role is?

[Treblesome]

Is it the kind of thing that's meant to be targetting a scumread or a townread?

[Treblesome]

I feel like if we don't lynch Scorpious today we never will

[Treblesome]

I haven't mentioned this for /reasons/ but I know for a fact Vonflare is aware of FG's game that had this exact role flavour as a scum role in a 2 person scumteam.
And like idk I've been vigged by town once ever and I had a GS guilty on me but I've been vigged by scum vigs several times and I really don't believe town!Scorpious vigs me.
Like he's played with me in the past enough to know my style but he played with me in early 2015 where I wasn't like known for my scum game especially but he knows my play in general

Scorpious doesn't strike me by reaction as the kind of person who hipshoots people for shooting them as revenge.

Like I won't say that there's no chance he's scum but neither the action nor the play around it make me think he's town.
And RR? he claimed because we wagoned him and made him claim. he didn't have the option of not claiming. so don't act like he wifully gave town the ability to track the ability.

[Treblesome]

If I need scorpious to happen I can make it happen.
do you agree that Scorpious is the most likely person in game to flip scum right now?

[Treblesome]

The only thing that points to him being town is his role but I believe that Vonflare would give scum a vig in this setup and that if he did give scum a vig this is pretty much exactly what it would look like.
Just from a setup designer POV when I made Postie's vig role in Elemental Trinity I gave it special flavour so it wouldn't be an indistinguishable vig. I feel like a town vig in this setup would just have a shot.

VOTE: Fitz

[Treblesome]

SK is dead, mafia made a kill.

How are either of these relevant to Scorpius' alignment?

You'd have to argue that Scorpios is another 3rd party killer or that he's a mafia with an ability to get an additional delayed kill for mafia. That or you have to admit he's town.

Really, which argument do you want to go with here?

I think that he's a mafia vig.

[Treblesome]

Comm, what's your Fitz read?

[Treblesome]

Full roleblocker on scum is obnoxious to compensate for so I could definitely see that as a scum role.

Steel, why do you think that confirming the claim matters? Do you think that he's lying here regardless of alignment?

[Treblesome]

Yeah, being able to claim even night fruit vendor and not take responsibility for the roleblocks is powerful, and you have confirmations on the even night.

[Treblesome]

Also feels like scum are trying to barrel through a Madvillains wagon to keep Fitz alive, the Madvillains wagon picking up as fast as it is while Fitz is at L-1 is sketchy.

[Treblesome]

What are you claiming happened? I decided to claim part of a delayed masonhood with my scumbuddy and the serial killer went along with it?

HAVINGFITZ is the person I am voting. SCORPIOUS is the person that I was voting the rest of the day.

Neither you nor steel are in my core townreads so yes I am concerned about the wagon and no you if you are town don't get to lord it over me and act like me getting vigged is a remotely acceptable decision.

[Treblesome]

I think there's a finite amount more games that I want to play rn so there's not really time but I think it's criminal that we never hydra'd.

[Treblesome]

(not that Apricity isn't a great hydra partner, or at least she was last game when she was actually here )

[Treblesome]

no, thank you.

VOTE: Scorpious

[Treblesome]

The game's not bastard so TTH is actually confirmed scum.

[Treblesome]

VOTE: TTH

[Treblesome]

UNVOTE:

Would you consider framers and similar effects bastard?

[Treblesome]

No one in this game would be dumb enough to have missed your cop softing TTH.

[Treblesome]

Can anyone confirm whether or not Comm used his lightning rod last night?

[Treblesome]

No one in this game would be dumb enough to have missed your cop softing TTH.

...and they would know I was looking at Carca?
Unlikely.

Why are you alive without being roleblocked if Comm didn't use his lightning rod if you are town?

[Treblesome]

Why are you alive then?

[Treblesome]

Okay, well I'm not voting either of you today then.

[Treblesome]

Why are you alive then?

Because they're bad at picking up on subtlety (not surprising given the Lady kill) and/or they thought the protective Comm was crumbing was more of an immediate threat.

Or they made a bad kill. Take your pick.

Or you're scum, had some reason to believe that there was no cop in the setup, and popped up in MyLo to fakeclaim a guilty and win the game.

[Treblesome]

Does whatever mechanic makes you immune to roleblocks have the potential to render you immune to the lightning rod effect?

[Treblesome]

For that matter: does your investigation come with a name attached?

[Treblesome]

No shit I saw the crumbs but I have serious trouble believing that anyone else didn't.

[Treblesome]

VOTE: Carcalilly

[Treblesome]

Yeah no.

UNVOTE:

Do you agree with me that the correct play here is to lynch neither of you and force scum to shoot you and confirm Carca as scum, or give you investigations the rest of the game?

[Treblesome]

Can you explain why you chose Antitown and Carcalilly over getting confirmation on Scorp scum, getting Madvillains who I was going to defend otherwise, or getting a result on Fitz?

[Treblesome]

We can't no lynch because if it's 3 remaining scum then they just win overnight.

[Treblesome]

(and if you're scum it's unambiguously 3 groupscum)

[Treblesome]

Would you feel bad about fooling me if you were scum?

[Treblesome]

Unvote RR.

[Treblesome]

We don't have to. If she's town, we get more investigations or we get confirmation that Carca is scum and we don't have to make the decision on a guilty claim in potential MyLo.
Also, I've compromised the last two days and I'm not compromising today. We're lynching someone who I want to lynch today, thanks.

[Treblesome]

Okay...
You think it should be Scorpious then, I presume?
I very strongly disagree, but I was also pretty darn sure havingfitz was scum, so what the hell do I know

I don't expect you to agree any more than I expected people to follow me onto FA or countless other people.
Your townread on him basically boils down to he wouldn't claim: which we forced him to do, and there wouldn't be a scum vig: which is short sighted as hell
Do you think that your read on that slot is more accurate than mine is, after you pushed two mislynches?

This makes me really nervous though.
I'll trust you, but... Letting a guilty result live? In maybe MyLo?
It really seems safer to just lynch her now.

What's the difference between lynching her today or tomorrow?

[Treblesome]

*Madvillian

havingfitz was playing scum

Hi, Carca! TTH claimed a guilty on you. What are your thoughts on that?

[Treblesome]

Also TTH's checks in this game have been really off.
I find it beyond really weird that she would get off the wagon of my top scumread, get my support on a mislynch then not take the time to help me get a guilty on the person that I said was scum.

Maybe I'm overestimating the extent to which she cares about my reads besides when it comes to mislynching Fitz but that feels wrong to me.

[Treblesome]

Uhh, yeah I feel pretty damn

shorted

right now and I have the right to

[Treblesome]

What about scorp?

[Treblesome]

You're ready to bet the game here and now on (I'm assuming Scorpius) being scum?
Is that what you're saying?

Why am I the bad guy here all of a sudden when no one took any of my reads seriously the last 3 days?

[Treblesome]

Okay, I don't think so either. But I don't think it's fair that when I have a read I have to bet the game on it to be taken seriously when my reads are plenty consistent in general.

[Treblesome]

If we lynch Carca and they flip scum, me and TTH are dead tomorrow. Scorpious never gets lynched in the remaining players, regardless of whether there's 1 or 2 scum remaining.

VOTE: Scorpious

I'd sooner bet the game on Scorpious being scum than town so yeah I'll take that.

[Treblesome]

UNVOTE:

Madvillains, if you're town I have the game solved.

I want to be sure of that. Can you guys give me a time to be on and talk about the game?

[Treblesome]

fucking lol information so you think that there's a chance I flip scum here?

[Treblesome]

was there any point where I was unclear that my expectation is that scorpious flips not sk, but mafia vigilante?

Sure. At the very least I don't see the town motivation behind your actions thus far today.

I'm not moving this vote.

Was there any point where you thought that you had the wherewithal to understand the town motivation behind anything that I've done?

[Treblesome]

man I ruled against drunkposting but you have something else coming. I've done everything for town. I even played nice because Firebringer was crying about me playing dictator
you know what happened? yall fucknuts lynched town twice in a row. so sure: Carcalilly's scum. I don't deny that at this point I have no expectation that TTH is scum. she can't play me like that
but that doesn't mean that I trust you. doesn't mean that any of you are good players: on the contrary I think the chances of you flipping scorpious are below zero.

so I'm going to do my thing, it's going to work out, we are going to lynch scum today, and you are still going to have scum to lynch tomorrow, and I don't have to play 20 questions with what you all do tomorrow when you haven't lynched scum to date

[Treblesome]

if you want to fight my will you fight my reads you fight

me

. and you don't win that fight

if you want to not lynch Scorpious: who do you think is scum with Carcalilly?

because contrary to popular belief I listen. I listen too much. most of my losses are me tunenling scum for a day and listening to some people whining all day and then fucking the game up
but I have one day to play the game and I'm going to play the game and you can't stop me doing that. so if you have a problem, work with me, not against me.

[Treblesome]

I've seen a good town player venge-shoot a player they were absolutely convinced was scum over the actual confirmed scum, only for said target to flip town. It would not surprise me if the reasoning you provided is actually what you think as town, it would just make more sense coming from scum-Treble as it would be a great scum move.

My vig record as of now in forum mafia games is 12/14. the two games where I misshot town I was full vig taking utility shots and shot scum during those same games.

[Treblesome]

why do you think you understand setup design better than me? why do you think your reads are better than mine? who is it exactly that you're pointing to as scum if it's not scorpious?

[Treblesome]

Firstly, I have nothing against you personally.

Secondly, turns out that fuzzy was part-survivor, which explained why he was acting so incredibly survivalistic.

But either way, the optimal lynch would be lynching Carcalilly and going from there. As for what my reads are, they're still in the midst of evolving and I need to evaluate further. Perhaps Madvillain is scum if you are town. Come to think of it I wonder if we are faced with 2 mafia or 3, considering the number of possible third party roles that have flipped thus far. 5 anti-town roles seems a bit much for a 13 player game to me.

When your play is to say fuck my reads I'm doing what I want that's pretty personal to me

[Treblesome]

why do you think you understand setup design better than me? why do you think your reads are better than mine? who is it exactly that you're pointing to as scum if it's not scorpious?

I believe my understanding of setup design far exceeds yours if you really want to know. Of course, me giving you this response does not contribute anything positive to our conversation.

Essentially what you want to know is that I can follow the thought process behind Scorpious' claimed vig-shot and why there is no surprise as to why townScorpious would shoot you. The shot itself provides no indication as to his alignment at the very least. If you believe him to be scum, please summarize for me as to why, vig-shot aside.

Vig shot is all I need. Unless you're implying that town!Scorpious shoots me for pushing his wagon when there were much worse people, in his own words, who joined the wagon, I don't think that we're going to come to any sort of agreement here.

[Treblesome]

I don't play twenty questions readlists. I know that Scorpious is scum as much as I knew it before his claim as much as I still know it with his opportunistic voting patterns and his shit TTH vote.

[Treblesome]

Why the fuck is it that trying to win is best served by lying about what my actual reads are then?

You're not going to fucking lynch Scorpious and don't pretend

[Treblesome]

Antitown won't.

[Treblesome]

Carca's lockscum. I don't give a fuck about them. but Scorpious is not and when we have semi-conftown (Godfather is possible, though not likely) fighting a Scorp lynch, I need to make that lynch happen.

[Treblesome]

I feel like I' mgoing to wake up and have a really different view on things tomorrow but meh

[Treblesome]

TTH did you verify with the mod whether your action would be affected by the lightning rod?

[Treblesome]

I'd rather we not claim today actually.

Happy scumday, by the way!

[Treblesome]

.

[Treblesome]

If you're town, you should be unvoting then.

[Treblesome]

If you're wrong about Carca and there's 3 scum they can quickhammer with you and Antitown

Please take your vote off.

[Treblesome]

I don't think that's explicitly out of the range of something that Carca would post as town here and some of the reactions to your guilty from others bother me.

[Treblesome]

TTH Vonflare wouldn't give you an answer?

[Treblesome]

why do you think you understand setup design better than me? why do you think your reads are better than mine? who is it exactly that you're pointing to as scum if it's not scorpious?

I believe my understanding of setup design far exceeds yours if you really want to know. Of course, me giving you this response does not contribute anything positive to our conversation.

Essentially what you want to know is that I can follow the thought process behind Scorpious' claimed vig-shot and why there is no surprise as to why townScorpious would shoot you. The shot itself provides no indication as to his alignment at the very least. If you believe him to be scum, please summarize for me as to why, vig-shot aside.

Brilliant deductions setup design genius

[Treblesome]

VOTE: Scorpious

[Treblesome]

I still don't think Commknight was ever the scum nightkill in any reasonable universe.

[Treblesome]

You think that von thought I needed to be saddled with ascetic

and

something that fucks with my results?

LaTT was a shit nightkill but I can see it if scum were really fucking thick and believed the masonizer claim and were like 'welp hes masonizer let's get 'em'.

Commknight doesn't make sense at all in any universe.

If he didn't use the lightning rod, perhaps scum killed him because he claimed to be capable of saving you

Well right now it seems like the lightning rod was in fact used, unless you have some reason to believe it wasn't?

[Treblesome]

I mean Comm even said that he specifically /wasn't/ going to save me because lynch all liars so I don't think that scum target him for that?