Mini 1927: Breaking Bad Mafia - Game Over

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Check-in post, hi everyone!

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VOTE: robbnva

Lynch all liars.

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I lost my sarcasm in the fall of '03, never got it back.

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Agree, that townread is a little weird, but I think they wanted it to be weird to stir stuff up.

VOTE: Edosurist

Let's get everyone in the game.

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The "there, that should be enough to get me lynched" part.

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VOTE: desperado

Two posts, one random vote and one just repeating a point chick already made. Seems like blending in.

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I dislike the above for using the same reason i used

now thats blending in

I hear what you're saying, but you don't think poking at low-content players is positive?

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sure
And scum want to appear doing positive things

You think I'm just trying to look like I'm doing positive things?

[Backhand]

This interaction feels off to me.

You have a vote on someone for "blending in"
You kinda snipe at me for attacking someone for the same reason, but your vote doesn't move. If you really think I'm playing for townie points as you just said, which has to be a worse tell than maybe robb blending in, why no vote?

VOTE: Wisdom

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@Mod

, I should be voting for Wisdom and Wisdom should still be voting for robb. . . unless there's something weird going on?

Fixed - thanks!

[Backhand]

no votes on robb or backhand
me is sad

well when you falsely accuse people of something, people tend not to follow you.

I do have a question though. When you point out that black actually attempted to blend and thus confirming that I wasn't really doing it. Why didn't you vote him? This tells me that blending in isn't really scummy for you so why are you acting like it is?

Yes this. Better articulated than when I tried to say it. By the tone of wisdom's posts he should have been chasing me and not robb.

Its also just a strange thing to call out. Like apart from both using the term "blending in" there was very little similar in what wisdom said about robb and what I said about desperado.

[Backhand]

no, thats just wisdom

Clarify? I haven't played with wisdom (in fact, short of one day of replacementVecna I haven't played with anyone in the game), what specifically makes this townWisdom or nullWisdom?

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Ok, so early reads list:


Town: Moz
Chick
Almost
Rob

Pos scum: Wisdom
Danny Boy
Backhand
Vecna

Null: Everone else.

Think this is pretty good, my place on it aside--I'm leaning town on Vax as well. Worth pointing out that LUV, gerry, and desperado still haven't done anything really.

Edosurist, last time you checked in you were pursuing robb and mozamis, still feel the same way after the last couple days?

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Not seeing a reason so far to move off of wisdom.

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Well we shouldn't be encouraging anti-town behaviour especially when it comes off as scummy

TOTALLY AGREE. lazy town/anti ttown stuff is gold dust for scum.
if you are town wisodm, make some sort of effort.

Not seeing a reason so far to move off of wisdom.

[Backhand]

I don't understand your request. I'm not mad at him. I think he's scum. There is no "making nice" that needs to be done. I've given him ample opportunity to do something to make me change my read, he hasn't been able to.

And youre sure its not more of an ego thing because he refuses to respond to your requests? And brushes you off as the newby thats not worth responding to? Thats what it looks like to everyone, and if Wisdom is actually scum here - thats what he's counting on and what will make his strategy work. And youre providing him with the cover, and falling right in his trap.

Patience young one

Well, I was concerned that Vecna was subtly trying to derail the wisdom wagon (calling robb, myself, and wisdom all obvtowning) but this is much more clear. Males me feel better about him.

That said Vecna, Wisdom pinged me *before* he decided to get all obstinate and refuse to explain his vote.

[Backhand]

I am saying that I have brought up valid points and I think based on what is available to us, he is the best lynch.

So you would auto-lynch wisdom in every game he plays?

The 2017 Mafiascum meta of allowing players to get away with intentional crap play because its what they do is a problem. What makes him worth keeping around?

[Backhand]

Don't you think its a problem policy lynching people for said problem? On the whole policy lynches benefit scum.

I would disagree with that, or at least I think the

threat

of a "policy" lynch (if asking people to explain what they're thinking in a mafia game is a policy) should be in play. I'm aware I'm in the minority with that position

[Backhand]

The 2017 Mafiascum meta of allowing players to get away with intentional crap play because its what they do is a problem. What makes him worth keeping around?

lol
Ive been around since 2012
do you really think policy lynching me will achieve something?

I would prefer not to have to try--feel free to actually explain what you're thinking about and why.

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Twist!

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Let's stop any further speculation on Vax's role? He'll either be dead via mod shortly or we'll get a votecount and know that he's not.

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Cool cool supercool.

VOTE: Vecna

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Intent to vote Vecna (Yes, I know he's @L-2). You forced a claim out of a player who was more or less TR'd by a majority. You're playing your own game and refuse to give reasoning behind your reads even when asked nicely. If we are lynching based on playing styles you should be our D1 lynch in almost every single game (unless someone like Not_Mafia is playing).

Also, you vote hopping between Chicka, Vax and Moz looks like you're looking for something to stick. Overall I'm not comfortable having you around anymore.

LOL, Not_mafia is exactly who pushed me to supporting policy lynches. But yeah, what you said is all correct.

[Backhand]

So P.O.E continues:

Town = moz, Chick, Almost, Rob,

Vecna,

Vax,

Wisdom

Scum in : Uzi, Gerry, Desperado, Danny, Edosurist, Backhand.

I swear I'm going to just start opening games by doing the dumbest shit and wait for the townreads to roll in.

[Backhand]

Moz, why is Desp's vote on Dany weird? They've made zero pro-town posts so far, and their vote was pretty lame for an L-1 vote.

Have to agree, its strange to townread Vecna and not get going after Dany.

[Backhand]

its strange to townread Vecna

How on earth is it strange to townread Vecna? I have literally never seen scum do a reaction test like that.
(yeah, sure, no doubt it has happened/will happened...but its very unlikely.)

And to not get going after Dany. I meant that in the understanding sense, not pursuit. I get the townread on Vecna, although I'm hesitant/annoyed to give it for something antitown that could easily be faked.

[Backhand]

DOnt be idiots, is anyone poisoned? I'm a fucking poison doc

Name?

(also will pretty much be gone all day shortly)

[Backhand]

let gerry die and lynch desp is my preferred course of actions

Yes this is OK. Highly suspect there's scum in one of Dany or Desp but not sure which one. Gerry hasn't done enough to warrant saving, I agree its highly likely poisoner is 3rd party which is essentially a free lynch for town. (there's practically no chance an extra Mafia kill targets gerry)

And since everything is out on the table, our poisoner should know that their best interest is to continue to target scummy players and for Vax to keep letting them die.

There is a nonzero chance Vax has a scum role, but I don't think its more likely than not and without the claim there's not much reason to scumread him imo.

P-edit: Gerrys posts while I was writing this make me feel worse about him. Gerry, why do you think there's no third party? As implied by your sickness, your kill would be delayed so there's no data points against it. There being three factions very much fits Breaking Bad thematically.

[Backhand]

Gerry hasn't done enough to warrant saving

I was on VLA all of day 1, and i'm obviously trying more now since you have seen my recent posts, why not try to engage me instead of just trying to say to let me die. What is the reasoning for thinking there is a 3rd party. wouldn't that be a very weak 3rd party for it just to be a poisoner (especially when there is a DAY doc to save it?

The two killing methods and that its pretty rare in all games and especially minis to give Mafia extra kills? Could be town, but let me engage in some wild setup speculation: if I were designing a Breaking Bad game, I think I would be highly likely to make Walter White my SK, and he makes the most sense as a poisoner. That's definitely part of my thinking here.

Also my phone is dying, I'm drunk and trying to keep up with like ten posts at a time and am not going to keep doing that, will be back in my morning.

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Vax could very likely be poisoner, and his only way of avoiding a lynch was saying he was the healing doc of poisoner. Which is why we need to see if he's really a doc. Like I said, if we don't solve this now, we will be in a bad situation tomorrow and likely worse cause if vax is town mafia will be for sure getting a kill and a delayed kill from now on with vax likely dead tomorrow.

nah
Poisoner doesnt claim doc at dayvig

Yup.

There being three factions very much fits Breaking Bad thematically.

Wait! Do you mean it could be 9-2-2?

No--I mean, maybe but I don't have a reason to think that. Walter White SK would be my best guess.

VOTE: idanyboy

I think its very strange you had no comment on all the gerry stuff. What do you think about that?

[Backhand]

Same as Rob, Poisoner is 3rd party, Vax could be Scum Poison Doctor. Gerry could be either alignment. Why did that would make you vote me?
Your point about letting the poisoner continuing target scummy players and not Docing them makes me think your the Poisoner, since Town wouldn't think the poisoner would help them.

Now if I were the poisoner, I would not need to call out to them what I thought they should be doing, I would just do it! And I do think the poisoner will help town--they're just as incentivized as us to get rid of Mafia, and clearly by targeting gerry they're already in line with that.

Your lack of curiosity around gerry is very suspicious for me--seems like you're more interested in dissipating the heat on yourself then trying to solve anything.

[Backhand]

Look at this logic.

Since you guys insist that there is a 3rd party, I'll use this kinda logic as to why I have to be town.

1. I can only be one of Mafia or 3rd party from the view of people who think i'm not town. I can only be one. So that means if we lynch the 3rd party and they aren't poisoner, then I'm clear. I say this because as Vax said, poisoner isn't outing at all (meaning they are likely mafia or 3rd party)

2. Poisoner wanted to poison someone who mafia wouldn't kill in the event they are 3rd party. So they knew that I wouldn't be killed because i was the hammer on Vecna, and I would claim to be sick, and people would likely want me to die anyway, so they would still get a regular lynch off. So due to this logic, I would be town because mafia left me alive as a easy lynch later.

Uh if poisoner is 3rd party which is most likely they don't know whether you're mafia or not, obviously. That logic doesn't get you anywhere. And there's no reason to think there's a 3rd party that's *not* the poisoner, where is that coming from? And poisoner on the off chance they're town has no reason to claim, they'd be giving up a valuable role, might be believed that they're town and might not be.

P-edit: All that said, you're right I do want to hear what vax's flavor is because I don't see a good fit. But that means he would have had to already guess that vecna was faking and pretend to give up his fakeclaim. Not impossible, but added complexity.

P-edit-edit: Probably not the ricin, but the Lily of the Valley from season 4.

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Now if I were the poisoner, I would not need to call out to them what I thought they should be doing, I would just do it! And I do think the poisoner will help town--they're just as incentivized as us to get rid of Mafia, and clearly by targeting gerry they're already in line with that.

Your lack of curiosity around gerry is very suspicious for me--seems like you're more interested in dissipating the heat on yourself then trying to solve anything.

You called him

our

poisoner and what makes you think he would listen to you if you were town.
My 'lack of curiosity' is because everything's been discussed already and I don't think it's going to get us anywhere.
I disagree that I haven't been trying to solve the game I gave out my reads just a few posts ago.

Why would they not? SK's biggest threat is crosskills, and long term they do want everyone dead. If they keep targeting scummy people and we keep not healing them, everyone wins except Mafia (for the short-term, anyway). I'd much rather two bad factions be going after each other than killing the towniest players.

Giving a readlist does not equal trying to solve the game.

[Backhand]

If they're going to do it anyway why would you need to post that line?
VOTE: Backhand

Mozamis you're right about no quicklynches but seriously this is scum scum scum. Dany, is your argument now that I am scum trying to convince the SK to target scum?

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brief overview: both gerry and vax town, scum faking that sort of shit is rare - i've only skimmed but it looks like vax and gerry are really going into detail so both prob town

Elaborate? I don't think gerry is lying about being poisoned, but that doesn't make him town.

[Backhand]

gerry reads poisoned mafia whos trying to be healed
Let him die

yeah i could be wrong about this.

it is odd how gerry - who NEVER tries - seems desperate to survive now.
I guess that means there is sk/poisoner?

so, yeah maybe dont bother healing gerry. If he is town, he is no big loss, sonce he wont try for long.
So, we lynch Desp and let gerry die?

SHIT HAVE I JUST BEEN POCKETED BY WISDOM AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH GOD

Lol--let me put it this way, if you had a doc that only prevented vigilante kills, would you want them to use their power? Kills not made by the mafia are good for us, so in my opinion someone would have to be widely townread to be worth saving, and that is not gerry.

[Backhand]

Edo and Backhand are mostly null for me right now

why? they seem very "blendy to me"

.

Wait a second, you're comparing me and edos? Explain.

P-edit: You think its a town perspective to have no apparent interest in gerry or the format in general? I do not.

[Backhand]

@ Bachand - all townies that die are bad for us. Last game i was in , there was a twn vig who kep killing town. we loved it as scum...
Yeah, if the doc is unlimted, then he should save gerry.
that post from you looks town.

Yeah, townies dying is bad but we don't know gerry is town. The higher percentage of kills that aren't done by Mafia is good for us. Anyway, its vax's call at the end of the day, we've made our points.

I'd rather lynch dany or desp but I also agree with you on chick--also LUV was a weird kill and they know each other, she might have been worried about him reading her? Slight evidence against her, worth remembering.

[Backhand]

Would you both just calm down?

Thoughts on the last few pages: Gerry's not the poisoner, that's an insane plan (he pretends to be poisoned counting on the poison doc he would have had to guess vax to save him, what happens if vax doesn't and he doesn't die?) But whatever he's likely enough to be scum to let die so whatever it takes to believe that's a good plan is good.

A50 and wisdom are most likely confirmed. Robb is probably town also so this whole pissing contest is stupid. A50 is also right that balance-wise a mafia poison doc is improbable (I'm not going to go so far as to say impossible, town seems to have a lot of counterbalancing power, but unlikely)

Town:
A50
Wisdom
Vax

Townlean:
Robb
Moz

??????
Edosurist

Scumlean:
Chick
Gerry
Desp
Dany

Probably not desp and dany together though, if dany flips red I would bump desp back into the middle.

[Backhand]

Sigh

"hey town, you want two lynches today"

"nah, we good"

[Backhand]

Explain to me how gerryoat is not town without saying "third party"

He didn't engage in the game in any way until he was trying to convince you to save his life. Its not the most damning evidence, but acting like there's always one person who is the most scummy and they and only they should definitely die is just bad math.

Like if I had an unlimited dayvig power, I'd probably kill all of chick/gerry/desp/dany/edos and be happy about it.

Robb, I still think his lack of curiosity about gerry is the best scum tell I've seen all game. It also raises the likelihood of them being buddies, but one thing at a time (now).

[Backhand]

I do just want to add that neither a50 or wisdom are confirmed anything except players in this game

That's true, but I find A50's claim pretty plausible.

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They have been increasingly coming up my scumdar more and more.

I dont like thier reasoning for pushes, their non-reason for voting vecna, and thier most recent post almost seemed like he knows A50 will flip town.

Also they were in teh whole wisdom fiasco the first day (with others as well)

Are you seriously scumreading me for believing a uncontested cop claim by a player who I was already townreading?

And yeah, I have a pretty strong "push for lynching players who are doing dumb stuff Day 1" policy. You can see 1917 where I was town and did the same thing. That covers early-game Wisdom and vecna both.

Wisdom's just posted list is good except that it doesn't include Dany.

[Backhand]

Ugh. Hate meta defenses.

Generally I agree but if I'm going to lose cred for going after wisdom like I did, I just want it on the record I'd do that every game. (including ones where I'm scum, in fairness)

[Backhand]

Devil's advocate: If you were planning on fakeclaiming, you could fake crumb as well.

[Backhand]

I'm day but I can't use it until after day 2 lynch. So twilight day 2 and beyond as long as the thread is opened. My plan is using it twilight day 2 if I'm around.

I won't be shooting Blackhand.

Robb if ever you are possessed to shoot me, please let me claim first.

And seriously: Dany's concern over who the poisoner is as opposed to who the Mafia are is a massive scum tell why can you all not see this?

[Backhand]

Vax also said there wasn't a dayvig, and I believe robb. I'm not saying Vax is lying, just that he's reading too much into his role. A Mafia with two kills a night seems way too strong even with the power town has, and a Mafia kill on gerry makes no sense.

[Backhand]

How strange, the heat on me seems to be rising in conjunction with heat on Dany.

[Backhand]

@Gerry/Dany/Edos

What do you all think about each other, please?

[Backhand]

LOL at the gucci discussion.

Dany and gerry are probably scumbuddies. Desperado gaining townpoints in my book with this most recent push.

Vedith/Wisdom
Vax
Robb/desp
Edos/Moz
Dany/gerry

This rebringing up of vecna reminded me that gerry hammered before a claim. Dany is currently voting for someone he thinks might be the SK. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[Backhand]

Dany, what is the thrust of your case again? I could've sworn last time it had nothing to do with me being Mafia, which is a little weird.

Also what do you think about gerry and edos? Hell, throw in mozamis for kicks.

[Backhand]

Dany, what is the thrust of your case again? I could've sworn last time it had nothing to do with me being Mafia, which is a little weird.

Now if I were the poisoner, I would not need to call out to them what I thought they should be doing, I would just do it! And I do think the poisoner will help town--they're just as incentivized as us to get rid of Mafia, and clearly by targeting gerry they're already in line with that.

Here you are telling town that the poisoner will help them. This does not seem natural. I think you are the poisoner trying to tell town now to worry about you. You wanted to let the poison go through along with Wisdom(but he is town).
You then says it's scummy to want to lynch the 3rd party. Most of your posts are talking about the poisoner with no scum hunting.

Its not scummy to want to lynch the third party--it is very indicative of Mafia thinking to be most interested in who the third party is, since that's something you can do honestly.

[Backhand]

You're right, gerry--I was town in that game too

[Backhand]

Ok as much as I want to shoot vedith for a50's bad play, part of me worries that he may cop, though I can't possibly see how his play was remotely town.

So one of desp/edo/chick will get it I guess.

Oh! I thought you already had submitted it. Yeah, please don't do that, pretty sure a50/vedith is town.

Desp/edo/chick would not be my first choices, but they're all OK choices.

Gerry is scum because he only got interested in the game because he was about to die, and yeah the shit hammer and his line of scumhunting has been to just OMGUS me.

[Backhand]

Oh well fuck the others. Until I see proof we aren't wasting time on SK.

But I still don't get what was obvious about him? I mean obvious to you being happy with lynching him.

Why isn't Chickadedee priority today? Because Wisdom said? Because Robb said?
If she's Scum we Lynch her, Right?

Chick is in my "might be scum" group but behind edos, and probably moz at this point too. I wouldn't want to get desp until after a Dany flip--but of course you're townreading Dany and gerry and I think those two are buds so we're coming at it from different perspectives. If those two really are town your group of four looks right.

[Backhand]

Back isn't obv town

Shrug. Wisdom, if you're on board with mozamis, I'll be on board to sheep our two probably-confirmed townies... and as I type that, nope not happening.

[Backhand]

Alright, that works for me.

VOTE: Edosurist

[Backhand]

UNVOTE: Edosurist

We've shown a willingness to not punish naked hammers. But do please claim, edos.

[Backhand]

I'd agree--now that you've outed it you should use it, we already lost our gunshot doc so you can't be protected from that.

[Backhand]

Not get lynched, or not get killed altogether?

[Backhand]

So like what happens if they are lynched? Are you removed from the game? You say townsided, but also third party.

[Backhand]

VOTE: iDanyBoy

This man.

Vecna's also a worthy lynch though.

Why would you be okay with nay lynch if you don't know the names?
Keeping in mind you lose if wrong.

This is a very good point.

[Backhand]

My one counterpoint would be that Holly White is a pretty fringe character to have in the game and if he just made it up, a lack of claim *could* ruin the plan.

Of course, he could guess that we would say not to claim (which I agree with, don't claim if you're one of those two roles) and now I'm just going in circles I don't know.

[Backhand]

Maybe I'm playing it differently than you would've, but that doesn't mean that I'm faking my role.

As I said, my strat was to play like town so that I'd be voting away from the kids, and if one of them happened to get rung up, I would've at least partially outed.

Look, if I was anti-town 3p, I wouldn't have claimed 3p. Claiming 3p here is just asking to be lynched.

P-Edit:
My objective is not to lynch scum, but if you want to hold me to trying to lynch town, then have the kids not reveal. Regardless, I'm playing for the town win.

WHY WOULD I SAY THAT THERE'S A CONFTOWN HOLLY OR WALTER IN THE GAME IF I WERE LYING? I obviously want them to claim so they don't get lynched, and at some point I'm assuming we're gonna massclaim, so I'd be signing my own death warrant.

Why were you so blase toward vecna being L-1? The first time, to be clear. I get that the LUV and gerry votes were somewhat sudden.

[Backhand]

Fuckkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk

OK if I'm helping some weird scum win condition somehow then I'm doing a bad job. But I'm Holly.

[Backhand]

Oh wait, I read Backhand as Robb in the preview. Ignore my P-edit

Can confirm, not a dayvig

[Backhand]

My one counterpoint would be that Holly White is a pretty fringe character to have in the game and if he just made it up, a lack of claim *could* ruin the plan.

You're Holly huh?

Yeah, my thinking was that scum could have a flavor cop and I was trying to get a sense if edos was trying to prod me *specifically* into claiming. Didn't get that feeling or he hid it well.

[Backhand]

meaning if poisoner is mafia, that means that I'm town to vax and others as well. no? unless you think there is either a Town poisoner or you think there is another 3p in the game as well

This is a fair point.

[Backhand]

LOL Vedith weren't you just townreading gerry?

We're destined to never agree on anything in any game ever.

Yeah, you're right gerry.

Vax, gerry, Vedith, Wisdom, Backhand, {Walter J.} are all basically conftown. It's looking good for town fmpov.
VOTE: Robbnva

Holly, you're too young to speak.

I'm precocious.

VOTE: Idanyboy

What a fun afternoon back to my top scumread.

[Backhand]

And Scum is Scum.
I think you're Scum.
I think Moza is Scum.

I think Edo is talking bollocks
I think Backhand is talking bollocks

Do you see my problem here?

Yeah, but the good thing is that some of these blocks are likely to be confirmed at some point--like assuming you are town vedith you have to die in the next two nights or get another investigate off. If someone else gets poisoned, vax can verify his role. If edos dies and is telling the truth he confirms me and someone else. If I die, I don't totally confirm edos but it helps.

[Backhand]

So what happens when Vax dies tonight?
There's no way to prove Gerry. Therefore not confirmed.

I don't believe that we have 6 names clears on day 2.
Even more so 2 coming from 3p

That would mean that scum guessed there's a poison doctor? Vecna's role did say gunshot, so I'm not going to say its impossible. . . and he gave them reason to rolecop as well.

Well if robb shoots gerry I won't call it a mistake.

[Backhand]

My eyes are starting to roll back into my head--need to come back and reread this whole mess later.

[Backhand]

yeah could be
just got a bit paranoid baout backhand, he is so nice lol

Thanks, I think?

[Backhand]

Womp womp.

Town was unlucky in some ways, bad in others. If edos just hits scum like he was trying, the whole game changes.

That said--healing gerry cost us a killing opportunity, both teams win by killing the other and we were acting like there's something sacred about one lynch per day.

[Backhand]

I thought the mechanics were very on point for the theme, good job Persivul!

[Backhand]

gerry play more like town pls
You were my only wrong read
I nailed everything else

how did i not play town? i towntold hard day 2. day 1 i told you I was VLA the whole time. only reason I yolo hammered was because I was taking the ability if they were town. and if mafia even better.

Ugh, that's not a reason! You're in a role madness game you will get a power eventually, and wouldn't you want him to claim to know if it was even any good?