Mini 1937 ~ Girls ♥ Girls 2: Mini's Apartment ~ Endgame

[Imperium]

Hello!

I am currently in the middle of working a closing shift and then an opening shift; I'll catch up and get current after work today

[Imperium]

Specifically, use of "I" language really makes me doubt that it's either well thoughtout or discussed. Discussion of a gambit along the lines of "Hey I'm going to do this is that cool?" "Sure" more likely.

I think that this is a good observation, but think that the Jaestina dynamic makes this more NAI than not. For one, regardless of alignment, I think that Mastina is going to be the person taking point on claiming and fakeclaiming in general; she's very comfortable with fakeclaiming and has very set in stone morals on how she believes proper claiming should be done. JaeReed, on the other hand, is more inclined to claim over not (think this post does a good job of their general view on it) and seems to be more comfortable letting others tell them when the best time to claim is, also think their dynamic in For Us was similar to that dynamic here.

I also think that mastina is more likely than most to make a comment like that because she finds some coincidence here or there amusing; I'm having a bit of trouble phrasing what exactly I mean, but I could probably dig up an example of some sort if necessary.

Okay again, there is nothing alignment indicative there.

Explain or get a vote

I think that this approach from Gin stands out pretty radically from general approach and play in For Us; Tammy described her general approach there as "tiptoeing around a minefield" due to not really knowing how to approach mastina and me town and, while I'm sure her second attempt will be better than the first, I think that the way she goes weirdly aggressive towards Prism here is too far different from her weird hedge approach onto Lovebirds there for her to be a strong choice for scum here.

usually when town claim neg utility like i thought mastina was attempting to do in 48, it's to boost EV by suggesting a clear action for how to deal with the neg utility.

I think that this is a fair thing to say for a majority of people, but I don't really think it's a fair thing to say for mastina. Do you disagree?

I don't see the scum benefit to basically putting a "vig me" post it note on your own back.

Why do you think that mastina's 48 was the equivalent of putting a "vig me" post it note on her own bag? I mean, maybe I have a different approach to the game than you do, but I can't say that I'd think that "our role is negative utility if another role exists in the game but I don't currently think the chances of that are very high" is anywhere near a "this is going to fuck the game over, kill" it claim as something like camn's Hated claim would be.

Does this mean that you're townreading mastina and camn? How strong are your townreads on each of them?

If he accused me of something and I started to argue a point, and he then apologized and backed off from what he was thinking, then you'd have a point.

Why would he back off his point as scum? It's not like you actually addressed his points at all - you have a point that he probably doesn't counterattack more times as town than as scum, but I don't think it's a significant point.

[Imperium]

I wouldn't assume that there isn't one. Just like when scum plan their kills around tracks/watches/protects and whatever else. It's not about assuming. It's about being prepared for the possibility and I'm pretty sure mastina as scum would think about the possibility of certain roles or types of roles before doing things.

Already asked the same question Prism did, but I don't think that you actually answered all of his questions here.

Yes. Gin knows better.
It's a soft AtoE and its manipulative.
Town might try it in a game with a weaker playerlist, but it's tone deaf in this one.

I think that this would be a grand point if it was later in the game/the wagon against her was more serious/there wasn't such a large chance of her vote being either a joke or some weird voting thing that I'd rather she just claim.

[Imperium]

are you asking me if i think mastina, as town, could do a cutsie, cheeky little softclaim like that?

Kind of. Does the cutsie softclaim bother you or are you dismissing it as mastina being mastina?

[Imperium]

It was a statement regarding cardy somethings vote against me because 1. Card's reads are literally random.org and 2. it looked like we were going to vote people without actually saying anything or give a reason why so I did the same :3

(For the record, "trying to be cute" is functionally the same as "joking".)

But
VOTE: Camn

Scummy reaction to the selfvote.

Why? Do you really think that camn doesn't have a point in her 166 or her 170?

[Imperium]

Makes sense.

[Imperium]

Why do you have to wait for TTH to give you the seal of approval on your secret scumread? Is it any less embarrassing for her to shoot you down it is in public than for us to know that she shot you down in private when your secret scumread never comes?

[Imperium]

{Prism}
{Spiffeh}
{Heartless}
{NoticeMeSenpai}
{camn, kmd4390}
{Imperium}
{VNB National Plan}
{MaxwellPuckett, Polar Vortex}
{Ahsoka Tano, Ginngie}

camn
Imperium
Polar Vortex
Ginngie
Prism
VNB National Plan
Ahsoka Tano
MaxwellPuckett
Heartless
Caryatid
Kmd4390
Spiffeh

@Caryatid: Can you explain your Prism and Ginngie placements respectively? I don't like how the only two people who'd done anything worth writing about at that stage are at opposite ends; it makes it look like you decided to take one person's side in a way that ends up looking cartoonishly planned. Why was Spiffeh so high - the only thing he did was the "predict the scum" thing and I don't understand why that looks town at all. Was Heartless so high up for any reason other than "general engagement"? Why did you like KMD's entry?

Mostly on the same page with NMS right now; I didn't like Ahsoka Tano's vote on camn when it came and so right now they're more of a person of interest for me than they are for you.

[Imperium]

do you still love me, Ginngie?

[Imperium]

then why did you ignore my entrance?

[Imperium]

Ginngie
Camn

:hopeful:
NoticeMeSenpai


KMD
Cary
Ahsoka
Spiffeh

[Imperium]

If you'd like to join my "people who are betting on getting carried by Tammy" club then you are more than welcome to tag along! I'm headed to bed right now but I plan on talking over those reads with her tomorrow, but definitely interested in hearing about those reads in general/people worth talking about that I'm missing.

@Ginngie

[Imperium]

Spiffeh, me putting you on the bottom of the list doesn't mean that you're my strongest scumread; in fact, it meant that you were the last person who I thought to place in that group. I thought that you actively doing nothing at that point (whether you were aware of it or not) was a line you'd be more likely to take as scum over town, but the biggest reason I put you on that list was so Tammy would look at you specifically since it's not like I have any real capacity to read you.

[Imperium]

ANTIHERO - I was gonna say let's have a wine and cheese night tonight and then I found out I have to wake up before dawn in the morning. . I'm still planning to drink some wine and catch up tonight, but it will be with less abandon. But hopefully without too much bitching because I'm in a grumpy ass mood today.

Anyway hi to all! I'm not really here yet; I just mostly wanted to complain about above, but I should be back in a little bit

[Imperium]

Their reaction to your push also felt really town to me.

What about Prism's reaction to Gin's push was town? How do you think it might have looked if Prism was scum and thought that Gin's reasons for pushing were

[redacted]

?

I understand liking the depth in his read as much as you did if you thought he was a newbie, but he is definitely not a new player.

[Imperium]

Also sorry for the obnoxious catch-up but my laptop decided to update the second I wanted to use it and so I'm trapped on mobile for the time being.

[Imperium]

When she was talking about how she was scum and what she was saying in the scum PT it felt like she was being cheeky and it felt forced and I don't know why I reacted as strongly to it as I did but a lot of her early posting left a bad taste in my mouth and it didn't go away.

I think that a lot of people interpret someone overplaying a joke as something that's scummy but I don't really think that's necessarily true; in particular, I don't see how making awkward "I'm scum" jokes is scummy at all unless you think that she's freaking out and knows they look bad but can't stop and that obviously feels like a pretty big stretch.

[Imperium]

I couldn't understand Ginngie's push on Prism because it looked like Ginngie was twisting Prism's words when Prism got confused about double negatives,

This makes sense. I don't remember the double negatives confusion but I definitely can see why you'd dislike her early push on Prism just from the nature of it alone.

[Imperium]

I like that kmd came out of the gate scumhunting, so I put it in the "null but is doing things" tier.

Did you have an opinion on his scumhunting? What did you think of Heartless's and our perspectives on it?

[Imperium]

Not gonna lie, I don't see scum caring about details like this.

I think it's more evidence that Cary is someone who is very detail-oriented; think that would be something a crafty scum player would pick up on, especially if it's the type of thing they focus on as town.

[Imperium]

she was talking about awareness and it struck me as odd because I think in general as scum it's easier to have a better awareness of the game state than as town and you have more information to work with, so I feel just about the opposite about situation awareness as camn seems to :/

From my understanding, camn was making the argument that Ginngie was aware of the gamestate, regardless of her alignment, and her self-voting tactics didn't really make sense unless it was a nervous scum strategy - I'm not sure how then point you're making here plays into that.

[Imperium]

Can you talk to me about Camn?

It's pretty much entirely a meta read at this point (like Ginngie!), but I really like the feel of her push on Ginngie. I don't think she's really managed to ooze that easy confidence in the way she does there as scum and I'm not really sure she would back off the read in the same way as scum.

I'm sure I'll be able to put words to the feelings much better later on in the day, but as for now that's what the foundation of the read looks like.

[Imperium]

I think 170 was tongue in cheek and is a bad example of what you are saying here.

Oops, I meant to say 166 + 167 >.>

I think the "let's see how afraid of wagons you are" point was more of a bravado/pressure statement than the actual meat of her push; if that's all she did to push her read then I'd understand what you were saying but as of right now you're taking a tiny snapshot of her push on Ginngie and acting like it's the whole thing.

Does her having good reasons on top of the "let's see how afraid of wagons you are" point not affect your read at all? Do the points I'm making here make any sense at all?

[Imperium]

I can buy voting for me because I have done like nothing so far but actually scum reading what I have done doesn't make sense to me.

I don't actually understand this perspective - could you expand on it a bit? I'm guessing that voting this stage is fine because pressure but having you as a scumread isn't fine even though it essentially accomplishes the same thing?

[Imperium]

I didn't expect a response to a specific post, I just think town!Nacho would do something to either explain his read on me or proactively sort me. He has done neither.

The things he did choose to talk about seem like busy work when considering he didn't even acknowledge his largest scum read, that has nothing to do with it being me.

I'm not really sure how you expected my approach on you to be proactive or even why you thought you were my biggest scumread when I had more fleshed out thoughts on pretty much everyone else in that list.

As far as my perspective goes on you right now, your early approach was underwhelming because you didn't really have interest in solving the game at all. Your current approach is fine because at least you're solving the game; I don't think that it's outside of your scumrange mostly because your focus has been so narrow. I didn't see the need to press you more proactively early because you weren't a top priority of mine (felt better about the other three on the list) and because you were aware you weren't doing anything (and so expected response from you is hitoshrug as opposed to indignation).

[Imperium]

Directly confronting them does show a townier mindset than complaining about them and calling them scum.

I don't think the word you're looking for here is "townier", just that there's a productive approach and a not so productive approach here.

[Imperium]

I'm just taking a "Wait and see" approach to Caryatid. Read on me I think is preemptive and strange (Is it implausible for me to make those mastina posts as scum?)

Cary assuming that you were a newish player for whatever reason (assuming I didn't hallucinate that) makes me feel better about this point in general.

[Imperium]

Polar Vortex feels town though.

Why do you think that they look town?

[Imperium]

hmm, maybe, though I haven't minded Heartless' posting, but do you think Anti declares a secret scumread on his buddy here?

Yes.

[Imperium]

"The paragon of mafiascum is lynchbait"

>_>

<_<

Is that really what story you want too sell?

He certainly wasn't before but he lost a good deal of his cool since he got that award.

[Imperium]

Sounds like you've done a lot of making sure I'm not townread for anything silly, Imperium, but do you have any thoughts yourself on my alignment?

Cautious optimism, but nothing actually worth a mention yet.

I've liked your general posting, and I think that the way you've defended Ahsoka and Spiffeh looks genuine. I also liked your Cary (this looks town, no it doesn't) progression although I'm fully aware that you're fully capable of faking it as scum.

[Imperium]

ANTIHERO - I was gonna say let's have a wine and cheese night tonight and then I found out I have to wake up before dawn in the morning. . I'm still planning to drink some wine and catch up tonight, but it will be with less abandon. But hopefully without too much bitching because I'm in a grumpy ass mood today.

Anyway hi to all! I'm not really here yet; I just mostly wanted to complain about above, but I should be back in a little bit

This did not happen. I was told if the thought of playing mafia made me want to kick puppies, I shouldn't play mafia.

*no puppies were injured in tonight's anger episodes.

Maybe tomorrow.

~ (No one actually cares about puppies though!) ~

Spoiler: ♥

[Imperium]

Because Tammy being disengaged from the game will ALWAYS be the biggest and most accurate reason to scum read Imperium

Tammy being the dominant head in the hydra is a pretty solid towntell, but it's not like I haven't led for significant amount of time in a town Imperium hydra before; getting worried because she hasn't posted in a 36 hour time period in particular is kind of silly.

[Imperium]

And Nacho knows not to question me.

Could you clarify if this is a joke or not?

[Imperium]

We are both wildly intoxicated at the moment.
I meant to catch up about 2 beers ago and fucked up, but I will try to be as solemn as possible while I offer up my contributions to this humble thread.

[Imperium]

It's a shame Antihero is such a lightweight; feel we could have a lot of fun exchanging life stories right now.

[Imperium]

We are both wildly intoxicated at the moment.
I meant to catch up about 2 beers ago and fucked up, but I will try to be as solemn as possible while I offer up my contributions to this humble thread.

This is true and he recently unbanned me from mafia after i promised I wouldn't take it so seriously, so it's time to bust some skulls! Yeah!

[Imperium]

i never actually unbanned you from mafia, you just started posting.
i keep telling tammy stories i already told her

[Imperium]

spiffeh is removed from the devil horns readslist

[Imperium]

not drunk rn but i could start working on it?

if we were spending time together in person i'd be tapping on my wrist

[Imperium]

First off, really like VNB's #345. Don't agree with all of the reads but some strike me as more skepticism than malice (ex. mastina) while others seem likely. I also just honestly buy the phone story. Conveniently sums up my feelings on Polar-ton of questions, range of usefulness in their answers, near 0 use for reading Polar.

One thing that stood out for me in Buttersnap was that Shadoweh was entertaining as fuck to play with and I actually longed to be town with her. Don't feel anything close to that feeling with her here.

[Imperium]

(I have a bandaid on my thumb after a cooking accident which is making me post weirder than me just being drunk. I'm trying to fix them all, but if there are weird letters where they shouldn't be, its my fucking bandaid.)

let's be clear though spiffeh's posts have been problematic and yesterday I wanted to literally smash my head with a hammer after reading his posturing hypocritical posts, but some of his posts after yesterday's terrible as shit posts look fine today. though I'm not sure if anyone notices that he's danced around and not really interacted in a normal way and that makes me go all itchy fuck fest. I'm all cool and the jazz if you want to read our hydra through me, but you really haven't been framing that this way this game. You tried to make it sound like it's alignment indicative that I didn't post in the first few days of the game, then you tried to frame it in the oh you think you can read me way, which I don't like.

I'd just feel much better about you if you'd just have been like hey nacho when's tammyvposting (you'd know I"d planned to post on Thursday if you'd asked.) Or if you'd said that you thought you could read us better by me posting, but you went this weird around the world way and it feels like you did that because people called you out on your shit.

[Imperium]

anti i thought you were gonna get fucked up w/us

[Imperium]

not drunk rn but i could start working on it?

drining!

but have not read the game in fullv yet.

Mostly I've beenvlooking at reads nacho's asked me about for cliffs notes versions.

[Imperium]

everything you own in a box to the left!

[Imperium]

not drunk rn but i could start working on it?

drining!

but have not read the game in fullv yet.

Mostly I've beenvlooking at reads nacho's asked me about for cliffs notes versions.

I also have myvhooka ready

[Imperium]

jesus fucking christ typing with a bandaid on your thumb scuks.

[Imperium]

yesterday the night before tomorrow

[Imperium]

let me go let me go tonight

[Imperium]

tammy

just use ur right thumb

take ur left thumb off it keeps wanting to hit the v key

you get me so much!

it's my big problem!

[Imperium]

antihero i'm pretty sure i've been drinking before you were even born

[Imperium]

the other read nacho asked me to assess was gin and whether or not he was town reading her too easily but her play is early annoying just like when she was town in dragon ball z and the what's the difference between care and aware and the crap she was giving to prism's early read on whoever looks way townier than for us where she was totally deer incheadlights. I skimmed the spiffeh exchange in a grocery store earlire but I think he's crack piping. ALSO don't care abut that other game either so shadoweh hydra is high five on the what don't care chick fist.

[Imperium]

u are my superhero

[Imperium]

I'm leaving the camn read to nacho 100% because I scum read her every game, so he gets that one.

[Imperium]

but I think he's crack piping.

phrases tammy learns when she's dating a black guy for $200, trebeck

[Imperium]

I should probably actually read the game.

[Imperium]

SHADOWEH!!!

[Imperium]

You have been depressingly boring this game

[Imperium]

Whereas you were depressingly delightful in the game we played where I was scum with Majiffy

[Imperium]

Shadoweh doesn't even acknowledge me anymore

[Imperium]

shadoweh doesn't love anyone when she's scum

[Imperium]

she's

heartless

[Imperium]

I was havign moments of I hate mafia and mafia sucks I suck but then nacho reminded me who the hell I am.

SUP BITCHES

[Imperium]

It's true, when I'm scum I hate everything. Heartless is a different player though. :p
I'm being boring and forcing my hydra partner to actually read the game with me, as opposed to my other hydras where they abandon me TAMMY

don't worry she abandons me when we get scum too except she doesn't actually replace out

[Imperium]

It's true, when I'm scum I hate everything. Heartless is a different player though. :p
I'm being boring and forcing my hydra partner to actually read the game with me, as opposed to my other hydras where they abandon me TAMMY

I felt spoiled that game even though I was technically spoiled and felt like it was not in the spirit of the game to continue

(also that was the lead in of the descent of the crazy, so I'mcvery sorry)

[Imperium]

wasn't technically spoiled

[Imperium]

you still feel like your very charming self though :'(

[Imperium]

I loved our hydra!

[Imperium]

WE WERE TOWN

town with you which is basically scum

i'm very charming and enjoyable to play with when town!!!

[Imperium]

I do want to remind morning me that spiffeh getting after nacho for not interacting him and thus that made him scummy and himcnot interacting with nacho in return and thinking it was insane when someone mentioned it along with saying that bad-mouthing was part of the game is something I want to talk about because it's something that I take issue with but can't quite word right now.

[Imperium]

MY MAN

[Imperium]

i'm pretty depressed @ shadoweh just talking around me right now

[Imperium]

but it's okay, i don't need validation to be a fucking human being or anything

[Imperium]

like we've had great times together like that one time she replaced me when i was confirmed town

[Imperium]

dAMN STRAIGHT i AM. I'll be even more charming after this glass of fireball, don't tell Bella ok

WHAT we were literally confirmed town and saved that game from inevitable scum defeat
It might also be that this game is boring slash there are two pages of arguing over a game I wasn't in and I feel like someone has to be the adult here.. you aren't going to make me be the designated driver are you?

but I felt like i was compromised in that game.

and yes the arguing over a game of no consequence was boring as shit to read (most of what I've read here was that argument in a grocery store feel my pain and yes,cyouvhave to be the designated driver because you're the most mature and you sing the best!)

[Imperium]

but she doesn't give a fuck about me because shadoweh doesn't care about black people

[Imperium]

Antihero I've wanted to hydra with you for a long time!

(I've been in a vacillating burn out/hating mafia cycle for about a year now, but I think nacho just had a really good talk with me that made me realize how silly that's been.)

[Imperium]

Heh

no nacho had a talkcwith me and I think i realize how silly vI've been feeling.

[Imperium]

HEY POLAR VORTEX - Has snowstorm been around?

[Imperium]

shadoweh promised a +5 to charisma and she delivered JACK FUCKING SHIT

for the record of all listening

[Imperium]

hello friend!

[Imperium]

it's good to see you too even if i wish i was in sounder mind for this occasion!

[Imperium]

Hi fried!

[Imperium]

i never meant to break my own promises

[Imperium]

Seriously anyone thinking spiffeh is lynchbait needs serious reevaluations of life.

[Imperium]

Seriously anyone thinking spiffeh is lynchbait needs serious reevaluations of life.

i think spiffeh is lynchbait even if he wasn't before

[Imperium]

Prism - Have youvplayed with mastin before?

[Imperium]

Um shadowed are you saying you've never played with mastin what?

[Imperium]

Also I'm on page two, might not get past page three tonight weeee

[Imperium]

so kmd is the boring one?

[Imperium]

So I have a friend at another site who has this belief in this 1 in 3 thing, in which scum when positing a group of three names always lists one of their partners. I don't necessarily believe in the 1 in 3 thing, but it will be interesting to see if any of the people who listed three people who might be scum at the beginning will be scum.

does that make sense?

Just an end game thought really.

[Imperium]

I'd then spend the rest of the night curled up alone in the backseat of my car alone crying, wondering why I had so much resentment for the circlejerk, wondering if it really was my nature or if I was just jealous. I'd speculate as to whether or not anyone could ever understand me.

And then, after a long night of emotional isolation and inner turmoil, I'd pull myself together, drive home and VOTE: Senpai

There's a part of me that says this is the most alignment indicative thing that prism has said so far.

There's a part of me that remembers slightly town reading prism for what seems like open emotions and wants tovkick myself.

[Imperium]

maybe I should adjust my emometer for drunken reading?

[Imperium]

Oh also I forgot to do this earlier. i just feel that some are being underrepresented here, so:

Spoiler:

~ Spoilered your completely irrelevent picture. This thread is about lesbians not gay people tyvm. ~

[Imperium]

Hey gingie are you interested in setting up a time whenvwood cutters can interact or does that not happen anymore?

[Imperium]

Ginngie, what made you say you could see camn as scum?

I don't like prism's vote on Notice. I see it the opposite way of what prism sees. I don't see the scum benefit to basically putting a "vig me" post it note on your own back. It sounds more like town who saw a negative utility role PM and is just putting it out there. Prism's vote just looks like an attempt to jump on whatever they can and possibly a chance to get some more info about someone's role.

Vote Prism

Also within in game relations, not wanting to pick a fight and instead trying to put water under the bridge makes me feel that it's a town move as it pushes towards cohesiveness instead of being divisive

Or wanting to keep attention away...

???

[Imperium]

Ginngie, what made you say you could see camn as scum?

I don't like prism's vote on Notice. I see it the opposite way of what prism sees. I don't see the scum benefit to basically putting a "vig me" post it note on your own back. It sounds more like town who saw a negative utility role PM and is just putting it out there. Prism's vote just looks like an attempt to jump on whatever they can and possibly a chance to get some more info about someone's role.

Vote Prism

Also within in game relations, not wanting to pick a fight and instead trying to put water under the bridge makes me feel that it's a town move as it pushes towards cohesiveness instead of being divisive

Or wanting to keep attention away...

???

I guess I should make my question more clear. Are you getting camn's role claim with notice confused?

[Imperium]

Ginngie, what made you say you could see camn as scum?

I feel like nancy would make a scumbutt a hated slot due to the previous game, she made common town roles, scum roles.

So a NU like Hated would be good for scum to counter the norms.

Not always town roles, nancy and we recently played a heartless game where both loved and hated roles were scum.

[Imperium]

I made it to mid-page 8! and am stopping at my other head's post.

My big read to speak of is that I stillvthinkvginngie is probably town.

My other big take away is the more games I play the more times I'm convinced I should just jump in at about page 10.

Se you tomorrow, hopefullywihout toovmmuch of a headcache.

[Imperium]

I will!

Also the weird posting is my band aid not my drunk posting!

[Imperium]

I didn't expect a response to a specific post, I just think town!Nacho would do something to either explain his read on me or proactively sort me. He has done neither.

The things he did choose to talk about seem like busy work when considering he didn't even acknowledge his largest scum read, that has nothing to do with it being me.

I'm not really sure how you expected my approach on you to be proactive or even why you thought you were my biggest scumread when I had more fleshed out thoughts on pretty much everyone else in that list.

As far as my perspective goes on you right now, your early approach was underwhelming because you didn't really have interest in solving the game at all. Your current approach is fine because at least you're solving the game; I don't think that it's outside of your scumrange mostly because your focus has been so narrow. I didn't see the need to press you more proactively early because you weren't a top priority of mine (felt better about the other three on the list) and because you were aware you weren't doing anything (and so expected response from you is hitoshrug as opposed to indignation).

I could understand why you would call Spiffeh's posts after 391 gamesolving, but I don't understand why you call Spiffeh's posts up to 391 gamesolving. His focus was so narrow: all he did was call you scum and take lazy vague potshots at everyone else. At this point in the game, you were his only read and he had no opinions on whether anyone but you was town or scum. That's not sewing, that's just poking holes.

The seamstress!!! <3

(I think that nacho is more inclined to try to look for ways that spiffeh might be trying to save the game because his track record reading spiffeh has been pretty bad. ( which is in part my issue with spiffeh's posturing early game about nacho. Neither of them read each other well at all.)

[Imperium]

By save the game I meant solve the game.

In bed on phonedoes not make a good typist

[Imperium]

Some of his posting that I read today in the grocery store I liked, the stuff before endangered puppies.

[Imperium]

Mostly early stuff I read yesterday was too posturey and his omgus on nacho didn't sit well, he did that to sad in biochemistry, but some of his posting today reminded me of pre-thing spiffeh and I felt like I could follow his thoughts. I still feel like he's been moving the goal posts around concerning us which is ehhh not sure what to do with it, but yeah groove spiffeh grocery store skimming maybe I can mesh

[Imperium]

RAWR

Also I'm going to sleep for real this time. Night three will try to finish the game tomorrow

[Imperium]

I literally read all of this last night.

and I can't remember reading a damn word here

*nods*

Hangover suck!

[Imperium]

let's be clear though spiffeh's posts have been problematic and yesterday I wanted to literally smash my head with a hammer after reading his posturing hypocritical posts, but some of his posts after yesterday's terrible as shit posts look fine today. though I'm not sure if anyone notices that he's danced around and not really interacted in a normal way and that makes me go all itchy fuck fest. I'm all cool and the jazz if you want to read our hydra through me, but you really haven't been framing that this way this game. You tried to make it sound like it's alignment indicative that I didn't post in the first few days of the game, then you tried to frame it in the oh you think you can read me way, which I don't like.

Yeah Tammy I'd LOVE for you to elaborate on why you think I'm posting hypocritically or posture-y

Like I said earlier, you are primarily how I plan to read the hydra. I don't know why you're acting like I've demanded your head for your absence or something. I guess it was probably a little early, but I brought up your enthusiasm tell to urge you to post and see if you were thrown off at the fact that I was keeping a close eye on you, something I'd expect scum!Tammy to handle awkwardly.

Your promise to catch up and then retracting that because you didn't feel like playing mafia is something I could realistically see scum!Tammy do. The promise to catch up could have been an attempt to quell my worries about your activity, and you not following through could be classic unenthusiastic scum Tammy.

Now obviously this is no where near a smoking gun, which is why I'm still at "wait and see" with you guys. Once you get engaged with the game and if you're town, I will be able to recognize that.

Your posturey posts are where you started calling everyone bad for voting you when you hadn't done anything. You then got all up in arms that nms and nacho dared to have you low on their readslists when you hadn't done anything and were all like as if I'm gonna let that fly. Like I don't get that pissy at the beginning of the game when I haven't done shit and people don't have e in their town tier.

That's also an odd thing to take issue with?

I was explaining a reason for scumreading someone. Even if you were right about me not addressing Nacho directly, what's wrong with that? You can call it "bad mouthing" but that's literally how the game works???

This is where you were all like what's wrong if I didn't address nacho directly even though the crux of you're ohnoudint was that he didn't interact with you. And this is you saying bad mouthing is part of the game.

This all just reminds me so much of gay mafia where you felt so posturey that I sat in the dead thread convinced you were scum and it makes it harder to read you. (Also just so you know nacho asked you to clarify whether or not you were joking when you said that nacho knows better than to question you because I took it seriously. I went on a multi-minute rant in how infuriating and unreadable your playstyle has become. Maybe it's a failing of me, maybe it's a product of me just losing my sense of humor in mafia because I've played so many games with shitlirds that I'm angry and upset about mafia in general, but seriously there's a reason nacho keeps pushing me away from playing sometimes.)

Quite frankly and maybe under the same token I was annoyed that you tried to make it alignment indicative that I hadn't posted right away. Typically if I can't post in rvs, I don't post until the game gets on a few pages anyway, and especially not in this hydra. We play to our strengths and when we have time. I would have just felt a whole bunch better if you'd said hey nacho get Tammy in here to post because that would have felt direct like you wanted to read us though me, and I would have expected it. Neither you or nacho can read each other, nachos not actually going to push a read on you until I've read the game and given my thoughts because he knows he can't read you. (I don't feel as confident as I used to after gay mafia, but I'm hoping that was a blip due to me being in the dead thread without interaction)

As far as me being unenthusiastic, no. We are town and I think that will be obvious once we both we really get into the game. I don't, as scum, need to come in here and oust to quell one persons fears. In kids tv show mafia magna asked about me a bunch and I never once posted because lalaladontcare. I meant to catch up on Thursday, but doesn't the day with my better half. Probably a decent amount of people here will tell you I'm burnt out and sour on mafia right now. I posted for the only reason I said. I was in a bad mood, I was specifically in a bad mafia mood (for reasons partially to have nothing to do with this game or this site even) nacho told me not to post because of how angry I was feeling that day. And as I'm trying to learn the mantra of mafia is a hobby I'm supposed to enjoy and do in my soare time I obliged.

So enough about me though. I don't fully understand your camp scum read. Have you played with came before? (I will say nacho is the official damn reader in our hydra. I misread came as scum all the fucking time, but in the interest of if you're town you're someone I'm going to want to work with and understand, I'd like to understand this read. [yes, I've read the setting up to fail to high, I don't quite get it. ]). I also know we do not agree on gin and you've focused a lot on her mastin treatment, but what did you think about what either of us have said about her.

[Imperium]

Also posting on phone sorry for weird typos and shit

[Imperium]

No polar I don't thi I can tell you guys apart

Which is probably funny since you're both the people I altguess wrong all the time when home.

[Imperium]

Spiffeh yeah I'm really gonna want to talk to you about you gin interpretation when I've actually caught up.

[Imperium]

Still, Ahsoka hasn't posted enough to get the type of strong opinion she got.

We're on page 32. I posit that 'not having posted enough to have a strong opinion of them' is in and of itself a scumtell.
(We have a strong opinion of them though, it's that they're scum. ) Read stupid as pointless, questions that are busywork to make it look like you're doing something without actually doing it and not caring about the answers.

(No one tell Nacho that I'm mostly ignoring him because my secret tell for sorting Tammy/Nacho is their dead bodies by Day 3)

*day four - night three is my pretty standard death night. It's uncanny really.

[Imperium]

I'm a bit conflicted on Imperium. Tammy is great and looks really innocent(and I don't think I've seen her drunkpost in a game in a couple of years), but Nacho seemed a bit off. I hated the meta in this game but it seems like I'll do so now. He seemed a bit like how he was in my last game where early on he focused on somebody in a weird way(Snowstorm that game, Spiffeh in this one). Snowstorm sees it a bit differently so I'm not going to push on that too much. Plus, even if I had a mild scum read of the slot(which I don't since it's null), I wouldn't want to lynch a slot which will probably be an anchor for me this game in a sea of meta

~Bearbert(785 is also mine invalidanting Snowstorm's claim that I sign my posts)

I stopped drinking so much in game because I stopped drinking so much in life but also I realized that sometimes my emotions ran higher when I'd been drinking and I'd get offended at things I shouldn't, so I eased back because I never want things to be unpleasant because of me.

I know that has nothing to do with the game really, but when I read this earlier I was musing to nacho about how much I used to drunk play way back when.

[Imperium]

I think I like caryatid.

[Imperium]

Thank you!

I'm going to sleep soon but will pick up at 13 tomorrow. Also I keep getting polar vortex and vnb mixed up. Those two are going to take a bit for me to sort while I sort through that.

[Imperium]

There's a part of me that wants to go never mind the.p catch up I'm jumping in from here, but my ocdish tendencies are like fndshghkmnbhjfhtriyukhfgfssfdg to use antihero' term.

Anyway, this game is ,y first priority and I'm hoping to get fully caught up today. That's probably a tall order as I'm 30 pages behind sand I read slow as shit, so I'll get as far as I can. If not I have time set aside tomorrow too.

I've been kinda skimming when I get the chance to have an idea of what's going on so I know that spiffeh responded to me and asked about my gin read, even if I don't get caught up today I'll respond to that. Right now I just want to get as current as I can.

[Imperium]

TTH prefers being scum.

I thought this at one time too, but I'm pretty sure that's wrong. Why do you think this?

[Imperium]

I'm not going to ask a bunch of questions from early game cuz that's obnoxious and I see that TTH addressed that one already, but I'm wondering how much that belief formed the early read.

[Imperium]

First off, really like VNB's #345. Don't agree with all of the reads but some strike me as more skepticism than malice (ex. mastina) while others seem likely. I also just honestly buy the phone story. Conveniently sums up my feelings on Polar-ton of questions, range of usefulness in their answers, near 0 use for reading Polar.

Can't really say that I understand where you're coming from here - seemed like a pretty standard list to me. I believe the phone story, sure (odd thing to lie about), but I don't think it's an unreasonable way for those two to talk about the game as scum. As for the "more skepticism than malice" point, what do you mean by that? What would make their reads look more malicious? The read on NMS seemed simplistic almost to the point of being meaningless; I guess I could be being overly harsh here, but I didn't really parse anything beyond "I don't like that she townread a person who hasn't done much and Spiffeh wagon moved past!" - did you? I can buy that the Polar read is genuine (and slight town points for not jumping on an easy target), but I don't think that it's an observation that scum would have difficulty making.

I'm not really getting this. This is the type of thing you walk up to your hydra partner and just say "Hey, mind taking a look at Spiffeh for me?". Dunno what kind of underhanded signaling you need to get your own hydra partner to look at something. I'm still not really doubting this slot-I'd put it at my top slot next to Ginn-but this just makes me go ???

My general approach to this game is a bit of an experiment of sorts. I've found that in general I'm decent at pushing lynches but not so decent at directed said lynches on scum whereas Tammy gets scum more consistently than anyone I've ever played with but isn't as comfortable with the pushing lynches part. My idea is that we'll approach the game in (mostly) the same way but I'm going to have her put down most of the votes that our slot makes and see what kind of results we come up with. I'm aware that this is strange as fuck.

This is a really strong feeling about Spiffeh, with no clear basis. He had posted plenty since their pressure vote but there's no critique of any of that content from Carya.

The first sentence was a reference to Heartless, not Spiffeh - "I'm more worried about him slipping away" doesn't seem like a particularly strong feeling so I'm assuming you misunderstood Cary there. I agree that the timing of the Spiffeh vote in conjunction with no real interaction with him after he started posting is a bit weird; I'd imagine that a read that was recently brought into the spotlight and formerly was a townread would prod Cary to look into Spiffeh a bit more intently than it seems like they did (if that makes sense, I realize that sentence is clunky as shit but not really sure how to describe my thoughts better here).

[Imperium]

I'm not going to ask a bunch of questions from early game cuz that's obnoxious

[Imperium]

So in addition to not keeping vnb and polar vortex straight, I just read a post from prism thinking it was senpai and I was very confused. I'm not exactly sure what is causing these weird mix ups but be aware I'm having a mental blip just in case I attribute something to someone else.

[Imperium]

On Ginngie's self vote, I didn't like it at first but thought it may have been an emotional kind of thing which could come from either alignment. However, in the interaction with camn, ginngie comes off pretty calm and collected so I can only see it as a joke (doesn't come off that way at all) or a calculated attempt to accomplish something. I can't see what town would want to accomplish. tl;dr I still don't like the self vote.

I think that if the intention of Ginngie's self-vote was manipulative in the way that you and camn have implied (faking an emotional meltdown of some sort), then posts like #142, where she asks Spiffeh to vote her until next votecount or #160, where she points out that no one has asked her why she self-voted, go against the "poor me" image that a manipulative self-voter would be trying to cultivate. I think that Ginngie was trying to do exactly what she claimed she was doing; I think she was trying to encourage a wagon on herself to form reads. What do you think she was trying to accomplish as scum?

This post following those two lines of camn's post, however, feels like an attempt to shake pressure after JUST saying that Ginngie doesn't mind votes. So I'm leaning towards camn's observation being spot on rather than overthinking.

I don't really understand this line of thought + the "trying too hard to fake her own meta" line of thought attacking Ginngie, but I'm not really sure it's a place where we'll see eye to eye at all. I don't understand why you think Ginngie is trying too hard to fake her own meta when you're completely unfamiliar with her meta (what is she trying too hard to emulate?), and I don't understand at all how "you're a good noodle" is trying to shake pressure - do you think that Ginngie calling camn a good noodle is her trying to flatter camn so that her bloodlust dies out, or...?

The idea of a vig shooting negative utilities is nothing new. It seems unnecessarily risky for scum. It's just one dangerous trade off for I don't even know what benefit. I can only remember one time where scum fakeclaimed a negative utility and survived to endgame and that was in like 2009. Yes, I have townreads on both mastina and camn. The mastina one is still pretty weak because I haven't seen enough from that slot to have a confident read. The one on camn is a little stronger because I liked the exchange with Ginngie.

My argument is not that vig never shoots negative utility. My argument is that you're acting like all negative utility claims were created equal when mastina's claim is most certainly not a negative utility claim on the same level that Camn's was.

What didn't I answer?

Prism made the same point I just did in this quote:

mastina made it clear that it was only negative utility if a single other role existed. AKA, probably not actually negative utility.

[Imperium]

Just a regular "Don't be antitown as town!" and then move along.

This is a good point.

I liked his inquisition of Nacho, even as town Nacho unintentionally pulled some bullshit, and now he's just frustrated because of dumb shit like Mastina typing 2 massive walls that just say "He just doesn't feel like Spiffeh town. I feel it. This is Spiffeh scum. I don't know. I feel it." She might be right, but if she's wrong of course Spiffeh is going to think to himself "This is dumb shit and I'm pissed I have to deal with it, especially after that Nacho bullshit earlier"

I don't think this frustration is necessarily alignment indicative - it's reasonable that he'd be frustrated by the situation as either alignment and thus respond in kind. I think he'd probably be less likely to be as aggressive towards us as he was in places like the "Tammy is scum for not posting in 36 hours" - think town is significantly more likely to jump the gun as scum there since assuming that he'd score a mislynch on us is a pretty weird assumption to make and 1v1ing with someone you're not really likely to beat is an awkward as shit situation in general.

[Imperium]

his posts were pretty [redacted]

What were you saying here?

[Imperium]

I want to talk about the picture I drew too, and I drew it before last night's catchup so it doesn't have any of the stuff I sorta-liked yet. but the grey is this underlying apathy and disdain for everybody when it's too early to be feeling that way and the red is simmering anger that seems out of place. The pink flower is trying to fluff post but there's this yucky dripping stuff and unpleasant swirling and it just encapsulates his "I'm going to try to sew toxicity and reap apathy" playstyle which I think is more likely to come from scum than not.

The emotional stuff is why I mentioned that I thought that he lost his cool from his earlier days; one of the things that tends to make me dig deeper in a scumread sort of irrationally is when it seems like people are lashing out at others just so that other people will leave them alone and I've felt pretty strongly in my last few interactions with Spiffeh as town that he's been lashing out prematurely and not really caring about the responses that he's getting recently. I felt that again with his early push in response to me putting him below the evil smiley (readslists aren't necessarily going to be in order, him being at the bottom of a scumlist isn't really any different being at the bottom of a sortlist if I don't feel strongly at all about any of those names) and I have trouble reading his tone in stuff like "you're all bad" as serious or not as an immediate response to a wagon that's generated on him for not doing much yet when he knows he hasn't done much yet.

Tammy usually has much less trouble parsing through that sort of stuff than I do, but I think the frustrations she expressed to me earlier were not of the alignment indicative kind and I'm hoping that engaging him on his Ginngie and camn concerns will lead more productive interactions than we've had in the past.

[Imperium]

It worries me that it took him that long to find his footing though. 19 pages. 3 days.

I don't think this should be a point of worry; sometimes it takes a while to find things you feel good talking about, and sometimes it just doesn't.

And it feels like he's accusing Ginngie of doing the same thing he's doing (taking potshots) and I know hypocrisy isn't a scumtell but there is a tactical use for hypocrisy where you accuse someone of what you're doing and then people can't call you on what you're doing because they'd just be parroting your words back to you and in people's minds it won't sound like an original point and I think Spiffeh knows it's scummy as shit to do nothing and snipe at people because he's been doing nothing and sniping at people.

This is pretty similar to a point that Tammy brought up with me earlier and I definitely agree that it's weird that he's so bothered by Ginngie doing a similar thing to what he's been doing; she also had concerns with him being comfortable his play being characterized as "badmouthing people" instead of trying to read people, and I think that the way he kind of took potshots at us and called it "engaging with us" and accused us of not engaging with him when we should have been was pretty weird but maybe not alignment indicative.

[Imperium]

so he was "good enough for page 2" and then I focused elsewhere and stopped paying attention to him.

I guess the point that bothered me the most is how quickly the read when from a "high spot in the readslist" to "someone I'm comfortable with voting", but that's not really fair at all considering how nebulous your reads were at that time (which is understandable based on how early the readslist happened); also don't see any particular scum motivation for you swapping your read as quickly as you did there.

[Imperium]

I don't like the.. like fake "I have something to do.. but I am waiting for CERTAIN CONDITIONS" thing.
What is that? And then the conditions... it's nothing game-related, but just 'lemme hear from Tammy and TTH'?

Its more like- Im gonna lurk like crazy, and hopefully soft some nonsense so I can get away with it for a while.

I thought that this was a good point to bring up as well.
I also think "I'm going to do nothing" is a counter-intuitive approach to being hyped to play with people that you respect is town - whenever I'm excited about working with someone (and I have time to do so), I'm normally

more

aggressive, not less aggressive - means that they'll be compelled to interact with me which means I'll be able to read them better, and it means that I'll form a view of the gamestate and I can see how these people I respect feel about the points that I'm picking up on.

[Imperium]

In that situation and the Ginngie "I'm gonna vote myself to read people!!" situation, you both had a reason to do what you were doing (you thought it would help you read the game better). I don't understand why Spiffeh thinks that holding off on doing anything seriously will help him sort Tammy or TTH better.

[Imperium]

Nacho, my input, compare it to Frogg who waited for things to happen and then analyzed the fuck out of the game.

The only thing Spiff did was say Tammy was scum for not posting in 36 houtrs

THIS NEVER HAPPENED CAN YOU STOP PRETENDING IT DID

That didn't happen exactly, but you implied that Tammy not checking in earlier was a black mark against her here:

haven't rly thought anything of it

why does that matter?

Because Tammy being disengaged from the game will ALWAYS be the biggest and most accurate reason to scum read Imperium

Life advice

I don't think that Ginngie's paraphrase is unreasonable.

[Imperium]

I also never said that???

Didn't say that you did; I explain my perspective on that point a little more clearly in some of my responses to Cary.

[Imperium]

I'm not sure if I asked this before but Spiffeh have you played with Mastin much?

[Imperium]

Did I get it or is there something else?

You got it.

The intent behind my post was to let you know that the paragraph about the emotional stuff from Spiffeh in particular resonated with me and I completely see where you're coming from, but I don't think it's alignment indicative for him. I do plan on letting Tammy read him, but our early talks made it seem like she was picking up on that same emotional stuff we are so I didn't feel confident in her bad feelings when she talked to me about them. I have high hopes for our future interactions over Ginngie/Camn reads because I think there's less reason for Spiffeh to get frustrated when talking to me about them, and so I'm hoping I can get a read on him where I don't have to check bias nearly as often.

Does that make sense?

[Imperium]

Again I will reiterate that Tammy's level of engagement will be the easiest way for me to sort Imperium.

I can't remember if I addressed this the other night when I was a bit tipsy, but this isn't even close to an accurate tell and hasn't been for at least a year or so. There's a reason you don't see me signed up in any games by myself right now, and there's a reason I'm hydraing with nacho in particular. I've been burnt out on mafia, and in a state of absolutely hating mafia off and on, for a while now as well as being busy in real life. I turned down someone who asked me to switch up a hydra in this game because in a hydra with nacho I can go absent for a week or so at a time and not feel guilty while anyone else I'd have to put in work I might not be able to do.

[Imperium]

I obviously don't. But YOU should, no?

Why did you think that Heartless should consider mastina as scum while you weren't?

people didn't ask us enough questions

Weird question incoming because I don't actually know what I'm trying to say here, but why do you feel so "going through the motions" this game? Your later posts at a skim look better than your earlier ones in that they seem more natural (although I'd still expect you to interact me instead of ignore me even if you didn't actually plan on sorting me and don't think that you think me/Tammy are hard enough reads where you wouldn't bother sorting us until we died), and I guess my major concern with your slot might be completely unfair but every post you made in Buttersnap Shitfuckery was an absolute joy to read (and, in review, you had posts like your 415 where it seemed like you were earnestly engaging someone despite not approaching the game seriously) and here your posts seem more boring and somehow less substantive? Am I just being completely and totally unfair here?

[Imperium]

VOTE: Ahsoka Tano

Ahsokas posting hasn't improved but w the consistent weirdness im not sure if i find it AI anymore

By consistent weirdness i meant Ahsokas tone being a little off and the general sense of fish-out-of-water from her. But idk I might be over that, I still dont like her posting. Like 245, and just not getting the sense she cares about anything thats going on

Max, could you spend a little more time talking about your Ahsoka read here? I get the sense that you've thought a decent a bit about it but that the depth in the read isn't actually making it into the thread; why did Ahsoka strike you as off initially, why did her continuing to demonstrate those traits lead to a scumread and why did you go from "her feeling like a fish out of water" to "she doesn't care about anything going on" - both of these things sound like general disengagent to me so I'd like you to be a little clearer about what they mean to you if possible.

[Imperium]

I explained why I was scum reading Imperium, you are welcome to give your thoughts on that.

I guess that reason doesn't really hold up now, I can buy that Nacho left me in a sort pile rather than a scum pile.

But the fact that you're discrediting the read as OMGUS without acknowledging my reasons behind it either makes you bad or scum, neither of which are acceptable.

Also, can you go into detail on why you're scum reading me? From what I've read you've opted to take potshots on the sidelines (mostly having to do with my Imperium read) rather than actually engage with me if your problem is that I'm "doing nothing". It feels to me that your "scum read" on me is coming more from a place that wants to appease/buddy mastina instead of solve the game. And since getting in her good graces was literally the only thing you tried to do as scum in Biochemistry that doesn't make me feel very good.

You're right that Gin's interactions with you up to this point can be characterized as taking potshots on the sidelines, but I don't think that's an unreasonable interaction when it was a read that mastina was taking point on/felt the strongest about. I don't think the potshots individually were unreasonable; her OMGUS observation was fine and the judge judy gif in response to you scumreading us when an eye roll directed at someone attacking one of her top townreads.

I think your "she's trying to buddy mastina" point is shallow - she loves playing with mastina so when mastina is playing the same game as her she tends to buddy her regardless of alignment - why are her interactions here "Ginngie trying to buddy" as opposed to "Ginngie playing with a friend"? I think this is a pretty weak point in general.

I think that your "you can't call the read OMGUS unless you talk about the reasons behind it" point is strange. Ginngie pointed out that the only read you gave all game was a scumread on us because of our (perceived) scumread on you, which isn't inaccurate at all - why did she have to do anything more than point out something that she saw?

[Imperium]

Uh, if I don't have anything to say about someone, I'm not gonna say it. As you should know from Biochemistry, I am perfectly capable of creating empty content and asking filler questions that look good as scum. I have no reason to do that as town.

This is the shit I'm talking about. If you'd like something from me, ask me specifically what you want me to talk about. I've only talked about Imperium because they're the only ones that have really done anything that pinged me (until now).

You can keep sitting pretty on my wagon without doing anything proactive to actually read me, or you can maybe ask me questions that will help you cement your read on me one way or another.

This just seems excessively obstinate. It's page 19, it's not incredibly unreasonable to assume that you have thoughts beyond "I think that Imperium is scum because Nacho had me on the bottom of his scumlist and didn't engage me", and railing against Ginngie for her not being specific enough in her requests when she just got done asking you for something (she's not interested in your thoughts on anyone in particular, she just wants to see what else you're thinking about) is again unreasonable. You're right that, at that point, all Ginngie was doing was chilling on your wagon, but the reason she was doing so seemed to be to pressure you into doing something (which was a stance that you didn't find unreasonable at all in 240).

I understand the intent behind making a push like this - you're trying to read people who are pushing your wagon - but it's causing this situation where people are voting you for not doing them and you're pushing them for not explaining their read on you good enough and that leaves me trying to parse weird interactions like this one.

[Imperium]

So I just got through the Spiffeh/Gin slap fight and ugh. I've also figured out why I'm mixing people up, it's because I'm extremely tired and I've failen asleep on my keyboard now twice, so there's probably some stuff I'm gonna have to go back and read again but i'll deal with that later.

Spiffeh if you're town here I think that you're making the game all about yourself. Well you're doing that regardless of your alignment, but if town you're doing the game a huge disservice. This is the kind of thing that made it harder for me to read you in Gay Mafia and I don't remember you doing before and is where I think I've been having a more difficult time in reading you. (You said earlier that you always say people are bad, I don't remember you doing that and that and telling people they are bad at mafia are things that I've in particular come to have absolutely no tolerance for because it feels like people are more interested in trying to tear each other down than play mafia and figure things out. It's reads posturey to me and it reads fake and it makes you harder to read because it's annoying and when I'm particular annoyed by people feeling fake I have a harder time reading them.)

Anyway, if you're town here your reads are being tainted because how dare people question or suspect you, but in your argument with Gin you literally listened to nothing she said. You made the entire argument about a way to explain Gin's behavior towards you in relation to mastina when maybe Gin just scum reads you and finds problems with your play. You guys just ended up talking past each other without paying attention to what the other is saying.

You're trying to say that Gin would try to buddy mastin by doing overtly buddying things to get Mastina to town read her and that's why she's doing all those things in regards to you.

But that doesn't make any sense and you're not listening to what she's saying in return.

She accurately pointed out that Mastin didn't actually have a town read on Gin for anything in the Biochemistry game but you're Gin and I like you. She admitted to not reading the game. Gin would buddy mastin if she's town too, so the buddying thing isn't alignment indicative. You're ignoring though the other times that when mastin read the game, she was caught immediately. that mastin is actually decent at reading Gin and that's something that Gin has to deal with. And you're ignoring that point because if you pay attention to what is happening and what has happened in the past, you might see what Gin is trying to say.

My town read on Gin is meta based. She's behaving just like she did in Dragonball Z one and girls girls one as town and nothing like she behaved in for us as scum. In the town games, she jumped the gun in rvs and attacks random things and acts a bit obtuse. For instance, Nacho was scum reading Maria for feeling flat and Gin jumped all over that because what does flat mean and how is it alignment indicative. (I scum read her for tone in this one because I thought it was fake.) In girls girls there was a similar very aggressive jumping in and kinda being messy. So when she attacked Prism early game and then had that really obtuse post where she couldn't understand what camn was saying between care and aware concerning the playerlist, that looked just like town Gin. In For Us, Gin replaced into a scum slot and tried to kinda interact with Mastin and Nacho but it came off so fake. She white knighted Mastin, who scum read her immediately, and then literally slinked away when we started pressing her. Also, I think the post where she declared she was confirmed town when she saw that both mastin and nacho town read her looked really town. I did not get the sense in For Us that she'd be really ballsy or cheeky like that as scum. I think her reaction would be different.

[Imperium]

Ginngie isnt scumhunting but she IS having a grand old time in the thread and i can appreciate that
It doesnt say anything abt her alignment besides her having fun ":3"
Lots of "woo im being townread"
The posts that are actually hunting are super duper bland

I don't really think that it's accurate to say that she "isn't scumhunting" (and I kind of like you saying that she isn't scumhunting when she's done objectively more than you have); you're right that she doesn't have a lot of posts that say "X is town/scum and this is why" but interactions like Ginngie's early bout with Prism or talking about KMD why she thought that the way it all unfolded was town or the interaction with camn or trying to convince mastina why Cary was a townread of hers are most definitely scumhunting and all come before this point.

The having fun and "woo I'm being townread posts" bits are important to me because she just got out of a game where she got slam dunked as soon as she replaced in; it's difficult as scum to post like that around people who you think can read you very very well; most people tend to feel nervous, and that makes them much more cautious.

Self vote is whatever but this is such an overexplanation, also i think i learned something about myself today because ginngie posts with the kind of reckless abandon i imagine i would as scum in this year 2017

I can understand why you dislike this quote; definitely seems fake as fuck.

"its obvious im doing my own thing" does not go with "I did something purposefully scummy to get a wagon on me and analyze it"

Why not...?

Do I have to explain why this is scummy or do you get it

Don't actually get it at all!

Town could actually do this one where she pops in to sprinkle some salt in that papercut but in the context of everything else its just another reason why Ginngie is scum having a giggle

This is pretty similar to why Spiffeh thinks that Ginngie is scum and something that I think has to do much more with playstyle than alignment. I don't think that it's scummy to switch between aggressively pushing something and taking the sidelines on it; I do the same pretty frequently and again it's far more of a playstyle thing than an alignment thing. I'm not sure how to refute this point in a satisfactory way without using meta, though.

[Imperium]

Spiffeh, any reason why you responded to Tammy's post on you but didn't respond to any of mine?

[Imperium]

Are more posts coming?

[Imperium]

I'm out for the evening so if any posts are mangled I'm phone posting from a pool hall.

I will look at camn's reaction, but nacho will be the better on to understand her. Whatever I say about it you'll have to take with a grain of salt. I scum read her all the time. I don't know why but I do almost every single time.

The game all about you wasn't an insult if that's how it came out. Sometimes I myself get caught up in things in relation to me where I see things tangled up with me and that's a bit of what I thought I was seeing.

[Imperium]

Spiffeh what was Mastina's read on you in bio?

[Imperium]

I googled what a BBw lesbian is. It brought up a bunch of links to bbw lesbian porn but didn't tell me what one is

[Imperium]

I'm caught up I'm caught up I'm caught up!

I will do most of my wording tomorrow because I still have some other goals to accomplish in the next four hours and my main was get this damn game read. I also need to reread through vnb and polar vortex to disentangle them from one another. I did start distinguishing them, but a couple pages back I read Nacho's response to VNB and was like why did they say we're not interacting with them that's scummy then realized that it was polar that asked me to respond to them not VNB. There is literally no reason for me to have them as confused as I have them because polar are people from my homesite and has snowstorm and they have a polar bear, so I don't know what my problem is and it's not a huge tangle, but I still want to separate that. I also need to look back at a couple pages where I mixed up posts between mastina, prism and kmd (this came from reading while I was exhausted and was falling asleep while reading, not because I'm just mistaking these three for each other.)

Polar - I'll be happy to interact with you and now that I'm caught up I'll be able to do that more easily and in real time; just probably not today as I'm trying to get a few other things done in the next few hours. We are town though, so I think that will be easy to identify soon enough .

Nacho has a weird work shift right now and is still almost 20 pages behind so I'll not be able to touch base with him solidly about the game until tomorrow afternoon/evening.

I have two hard town reads that I feel really good about. Gin and Heartless. I have other people that I like too but one of the terrible side effects of how much I've drawn scum the past year or so is that it's made me feel less confident about my town reads, and teasing out them will take a little bit more of the time that I'm allotting myself for this game right now.

I've already talked about my town read on Gin, and I don't think that anyone disagrees with my heartless read except for mastina and I'm not really sure of why she's got that read. Mastina thinks that TTH is more comfortable as scum and therefore she would take the head in a scum game, so TTH not being here at the beginning of the game and antihero not being sarcastic or whatever was a sign of them being scum. Except TTH is not comfortable as scum. She is not confident in her scum game thinks she lacks the ability to use logic as well as she does in her town read. So, I'm not sure where mastina thought differently (though maybe from team mafia? I think antihero said something in one game about how if they had drawn scum TTH would have taken it over antihero. I'm not sure if she read that game though.) That's really here nor there though, neither one of them are playing their scum game.

Okay I will talk about more people tomorrow, but time's up for now!

[Imperium]

Well I was caught up.

[Imperium]

Oh I thought anti was replacing out and I was bummed.

[Imperium]

Oh nacho and I did talk for a few minutes last night, and I have came as another hard town read. I was going to mention it last night but I had one of those moments of if I'm reading someone as town that I always read as scum does that mean she's actually scum? But nacho agrees with the read and all my reasoning. I think it's just that she's not doing the stuff I usually read as fake and start scum reading her for, and a bunch of her posts just read pure. I loved 1061 just for its purity. I went back and forth on whether or not it was alignment indicative and meant town or if I just loved it because I understood and it resonated. And ultimately I think on its own it wouldn't be alignment indicative, but when taken in conjunction with other things and her approach to spiffeh (which I want to go back and review to talk to spiffeh about in particular when I'm at a computer) looks more town overall. Also the approach she has to her day one lynch pile while maybe being somewhat suboptimal is a weird approach to take as scum I think. And it's something I can completely understand because sometimes I feel like I subconsciously do a similar thing, just not for the tactical way she's explained, mine is more emotional because I have a hard time separating emotions from the game.

Okay bbl.

[Imperium]

Ginngie *hug* if you want it.

[Imperium]

I am alive! I will not be as thoughtful and contributive as I was before for some time; might take some time catching up in this game particular but my available time has taken a nose dive and Tammy is probably taking a break from mafia so it's me myself and I driving for the moment.

~ Am glad you're alive. <3 I could probably use a break from mafia too. ~

[Imperium]

help me dear friends

[Imperium]

"You're going to die." "I'm going to vote my scumread." What's scummy about that?

kmd, I assure you that I completely believe your inability to play the game in the moment for 1 and a half game Days is scummy.
You didn't do anything like that in the game we played together. (although that was a year ago, jesus.)

The fact that kmd isn't even voting anybody at this point?

He's voting Gin?

[Imperium]

I'm not switching at this time. I'm open to compromise later, but not right now.

You're open to compromise with that scumread you feel really strongly about? Could you give me the short form on why you're suspecting Ginngie?

[Imperium]

Can we not hammer until I get a chance to look at this game tonight

Don't think anyone is actually at L-1 so we're safe for now.

[Imperium]

Looks like that's L-1 and kinda-sorta intent.

I'm a town enhancer (read: motivator). My role may or may not be gated. I did targeted a player last night, obviously not claiming that, either.

More later tonight.

I'm assuming that you're able to prove it tonight?
Does it work on factional kills? Is it the "double action variety" or the "strongman-maker" variety? If you use it on a limited shot role, does it expend multiple shots for said limited shot role or fizzle out or just duplicate it?

[Imperium]

[Imperium]

Spoiler:

Antihero vs Jae bores me because I see what Jae is saying more than what Antihero is saying but Heartless is dead town.

_______________

Does nobody find it alarming that a lurker lynch is literally the only major wagon? Like, the only person with more than one vote is me and thats just wrong. Scum are almost definitely hiding there!

Caryatid and Ginngie were the jumps onto the wagon and I do note it happened before a great deal of Alt talk occurred. I think Ginngie is the worst vote and her talking around me when I arrived rather than to me is damning I think.

Actually very good points in hindsight. I'm a firm believer that scum will always be present on a Day 1 mislynch, but with no counter wagon (Heartless mentioned past wagons. I don't think that counts) that is even more true. I'd guess two scum before looking at who was on the lynching wagon. And I've already said this, but Ginngie's vote looked the worst in that string of votes.

Bella said she was unsure of this being of some 'town pings' now that Ari is actually posting, but we agree that we will get information either way from this lynch. I could be convinced otherwise but you'd have to point a name and make a good reason for it Ari.

Information is a bad reason to lynch.

Aristophanes (5) ~ VNB National Plan, Caryatid, Ginngie, Spiffeh, camn

So my two scum guess was based on a seven person lynch. Wasn't thinking about the plurality thing. And this wagon has three players who I have strong town reads on. At the very least, if I'm wrong on Ginngie I probably need to look at VNB a little more closely.

hee

What was this a reaction to specifically?

Well, well. Aristo.
This flexy deadline business needs a bit of adjusting to, I think.

That's annoying

yeah

Camn and cary, you were voting him. Were you planning on switching or what?

Who would do that... a couple white guys, who else?

pedit: white guys are the worst

Men are awful.

#NotAllMen #JustThoseOfYouGettingDefensiveRightNow

^Can we please not do this?

I'm not saying Ahsoka is scum lurking but nancy has more content in thread....

I didn't mind this at the time but in retrospect: Have you noticed that nancy has more content than literally everyone except Heartless and Ginngie? She has more content than Leon+Max, Kmd, and you put together.

You had to have gone to the activity overview to make this post, and "has less posts than the mod" is a valid criticism in most games, but most games of this size, the mod would have like a third of the posts that nancy does.

Good point.

We made notes that your last large post seemed like a lot of Information instead of analysis. Also your votes sucked donkeys and you sat on a Prism vote until the end phase. Also I've made jokes about responding to people from 30 pages ago so they can never question me about anything relevant and I am suspicious you're actually putting that into practice.

This actually translates into "scummy because RL". When you're in catch up mode, things will come off IIOA because it's old. I don't change votes when I'm behind unless it's to avoid a lynch I'm not ready for. And 30 pages ago is because that's where I had read up to. Every bit of this is because I've been at work and traveled out of state. Those are things that happen regardless of my alignment in mafia games. Also I should be good after this weekend. I'm pretty sure I said this already, but my schedule should be pretty normal again starting Monday.

Do you have reads?

I'm actually curious how you could wonder this unless you ignored my posts and chose not to check my ISO before asking. I've been pretty clear on quite a few reads.

It's the basis of their Ahsoka vote, of course it's AI. Did they have reasons to think Ahsoka's posts were the scum kind of terrible or was it just BS to justify a vote on a town player?

Which do you think it is?

wait what

Yes?

I really don't like your Prism scum read. Bear liked your Prism vote, but I didn't. It felt easy and fabricated. Bad arguments, and very subjective. And then it seems like you stick with that scum read just for the sake of it.

Ok? Unless you can be more specific, I'm not sure what to say because you could just say this about any vote.

This is kinda ridiculous. You're accusing him of being scum and pretending to be drunk (or drunker) to get town read. I don't think Prism's ISO is so devoid of content that you'd have to reach this low to back up your scum read.

That would be ridiculous if that's what I was saying. This discussion has already happened.

Then he answers your accusation and your reply is "ok, but people do that." There's no reflection from your part on whether or not Prism is that kind of person, nor does his answer seem to affect you in any way. You just stick to what you said. Prism's "drunk" post was manipulative because some people do that kind of thing. That's a terrible argument.

When people you don't know use self meta, do you go "oh, ok, you must be town then"? Because I'm more likely to ignore it.

You even manage to scum read Prism for liking your post. Did you think it was so unlikely that your post would be liked (it happens sometimes)? Why didn't you ask him why he liked it if your problem was the lack of an explanation? Instead of fabricating reasons say how him liking your post makes him scum.

Again, this has been discussed. When people just see a lot of words and call it town, that will always stand out to me. And I actually did give Prism the option to be more specific which I don't remember happening.

You also shared a common position with your scum read on the Spiffeh subject. How do you feel about that?

I mean I don't view Prism as confirmed scum or anything if that's what you're asking. Mostly I was wondering where people saw anything scummy in Spiff's posts. But yeah I guess Prism seeing the same thing as me is probably worth some town points.

I don't think your ISO is clear about what you think at all which is the problem. Like..

"Well Ginngie's explanation on that has since changed to late night posting and effectively trolling. My best guess is that it was an attempt to show a lack of fear of being wagoned because it might be associated with a town Ginngie but I'm still confused by it."

You don't sound like you think she's scum.

Let me clarify then. I don't think town has any reason to try to match their town meta intentionally.

Kmd: 'My best guess is that it was an attempt to show a lack of fearof being wagoned because it might be associated with a town Ginngie but I'm still confused by it.' Also, bella says there are way too many linguistic qualifiers in this sentence - 'guess' 'might' 'confused'. You don't sound like this is a legit read either way. You sound like you're posting words. The rest of the post has nothing in it either, it looks huge but this bit is it? Nothing you given moves the game forward in any way. "YOU'RE GIVIN ME NOTHING!"

Yeah, you're right. I haven't figured out for sure what Ginngie was trying to accomplish there. There's plenty of context before this about how it reads like Ginngie was being manipulative and trying to accomplish

something

but it's hard to tell what exactly. I don't like the change of explanation either. I think you're reading a lack of confidence in this read that isn't there. Had I been caught up, I would have been voting Ginngie for most of Day 1.

I'm not really here because I'm busy with my girlfriend but I think you and VNB are arguing about words and you're resisting the realisation that it's just words.

Why is that more likely to be scum doing it intentionally than town just being stubborn?

If the conclusion is "nothing meaningful to analyze", then what's the point of posting this in the first place? I don't see why town would devote 1 of their 3 content posts to something that ultimately doesn't matter. I feel like scum are more likely to say something like this because "hey look at me thinking critically about the game!!!", whereas I don't think town would waste their time. It's as if he realizes "analyzing the wagon" is something that's expected so he made sure everyone knew he was doing it even though it didn't result in anything helpful.

He grabbed quotes and everything, it seems like he's trying to pass this off as a meaningful contribution when it's actually useless.

Devil's advocate because I don't town read Leon, but don't you think scum would be more likely to come up with some conclusion to make it look better?

KMD isn't an awful vote I guess. I remember playing with his alt before who I was easily able to identify as town and I'm obviously not getting that here. I just don't think anything content-wise against him is all that compelling.

Shaman mafia? I was on vacation from work Day 1 of that game when you started townreading me. People ALWAYS town read me when I have free time to post and scum read me when I don't lol.

ah. Who here has seen you do that before, do you know?

As town or scum?

camn, NMS
Imperium, Caryatid
KMD, Prism
Leonshade, VNB, Polar

I could dig murdering that list..from the bottom up.

Hell, throw Ginngie in that bottom tier and I'd probably volunteer to go first. Why does my top scum read have reads pretty close to my own. Like switch Cary with Mastina and Prism with Polar and it's basically my reads. (Also, spiff got forgotten so put him in the town tier). *sigh*. Maybe I DO need to re-evaluate Ginngie. Or maybe just Ginngie's buddies if Ginngie flips scum at some point.

kmd still needs to answer my question about 20 pages back that someone reinforced and went more indepth on at some point, which is "Why is your vote still on me?'

I wasn't caught up and there was no point unvoting someone at one vote. My read on you also never changed so there's that too.

___________________

Camn and VNB, can you go into detail about what you liked about Leon's catch up? I'm not seeing it.

Town: camn, mastina, Imperium, Cary, Leon, Prism

Who's Left: Spiff, KMD, VNB, Polar Vortex

Oh, wow. Your reads stopped matching mine pretty quickly. That was like my only hesitance on scumreading you.

I get your point, the point is flatly wrong. Again, I made no attempt to play up how drunk I was. You acknowledged this when discussing me knowing what a backspace key is. I made it clear that the invitation was to interact with me and see what you got, not to townread me for nothing. You have yet to acknowledge this one, but reading any of that post as well as any of #420 or any of the post you quoted makes it clear what the intent was.

Again:

I think it's obvious you were implying we'd get genuine town you because I don't think you'd be willing to post as sloppy drunk scum if it was what you made it out to be. It's not a "mastermind" move. It's pretty simple, actually. You acting like you don't understand my point is probably worse than that anyway though.

It's not so much how drunk you were as "lol interact with me and see how town I am". Yes, you threw in the "sloppy scum" line and invited people to make their own decision. But the implication is clearly that you're saying you are willing to post because you'll be genuine town. You are clearly looking for town reads with that comment.

Like, here we are, let's appreciate the fact that we're on page 66 and I'm still having to explain that basically stating "I'm drunk and presumably worse as scum, come talk to me." 40 pages back is not a scumtell. This is the last I'm saying on it, I don't scumread you for it, but the fact that we have mountains of actual shit to read and I felt it necessary to make a 7th restatement because you're refusing to actually read the point and instead talking semantics (Oh, it's less than surgery!) is disgusting

I've read your point. You've completely missed mine (still). I'm fine with dropping the discussion on it though because we were talking in circles long before now. Nothing productive will come from it.

ie.

Sure, I could have been indirectly implying I was town just for the fact I was posting at all.

I made it really clear in the post though that the whole point was just to talk, nothing more, and to leverage your advantage regardless of what I was or how large/small it turned out to be.

Yes! This! The bolded. That was the point I was making.

________________

I also want to clarify that Prism's votes that I pointed out and the calling my post town without saying why are a much bigger deal to me than the whole drunk posting thing. The fact that that one point was the one that drew such a reaction doesn't mean that it's the main basis of my scum read.

________________

Reads, town on top, scum on bottom:
Kmd
Spiff
Cary
Camn
Imperium
NoticeMe
Polar
VNB
Leon
Prism
Ginngie

Vote Ginngie

Ginngie is also quite clearly the scumread he was meaning to vote/push - would you disagree with that?

[Imperium]

Will attempt to get some posts in after work today.

[Imperium]

We're a bedroom bookshelf, which is a flavor tracker - we learn the flavor of anyone that our targets targets which is essentially a weird cop thing.

Night 1 we targeted Leonshade to a bedroom bookshelf (us!), Night 2 we also got the flavor of the people that we targeted and so we targeted VNB but for

some strange reason

nothing happened!

Prism?

[Imperium]

There's also one more aspect to our role that I'm keeping under wraps; I'm fairly skeptical it will come into play and will claim it under immediate threat of death, but it's optimal to keep hush hush about it now.

[Imperium]

I haven't had time.

[Imperium]

Like a good enable, State Farm is there!

[Imperium]

fuck you phone.

[Imperium]

Can someone compile claims for me so I can look at them during my lunch break?

[Imperium]

So a majority of my posts are going to look dumb as fuck because of how behind I am but I have to be missing something because it most certainly looks like everything went to shit while I was gone.

[Imperium]

1)

If Prism is scum and you gave him a vig aren't you worried that the game is already over? It seems like you'd be freaking out more about that.

Yes that's exactly why I am freaking out.

You gave a vig to Prism...?
This is exactly the reason I tend to overreact when people townread him for random as shit reasons - Prism has the strongest scumgame out of everyone here and I've trumpeted that from pretty much every mountaintop and you gave a vig to Prism? Why?

[Imperium]

2)
We have a pair of Masons (gated), a Jailkeeper (gated), a Loyal Neighborizer, and scum's response is a compulsive vig maker that hasn't been giving their vigs to scumbuds, or, better yet, that has to give their vig to townies??? And so far the only role that looks like it can block for scum is one that is a 50% roleblocker?

[Imperium]

And literally I am the only person who is finding something even vaguely questionable about this entire situation?

[Imperium]

And VNB busts out with a guilty in MyLo and everyone goes "yes! absolutely! let's follow them because it's not like we haven't been suspecting them the entire game!!!"

[Imperium]

Prism's reasons for townreading them are "their interactions in our neighborhood look good" - anyone else have any reasons?

[Imperium]

but scum vig-maker having the PT means that they're always going to know the target.

[Imperium]

Also, Carya was my suggestion for the pick-originally they were going to go camn, but I figured that Carya was a better slot to lock down. Getting the neighborhood with the three of us, me+Carya confirmed town, would have been great.

Why were they going to target a claimed mason?

[Imperium]

Nacho, spoiler, you don't have to fucking read me.

Am I reading you?

[Imperium]

I'm pointing out where your lines of thought are stupid, which isn't trying to get people to scumread you. If I was scumreading you I would be voting you - I am frustrated you received a vig shot because it was a completely unnecessary risk, but I dont think that you're scum.

[Imperium]

So they wanted to target the claimed Masons because they thought that the mason claim was bullshit?

[Imperium]

They weren't even a little bit concerned that one of them would die in the night?

[Imperium]

Also, my other two neighborhoods both have a time constraint of one day/night phase, and have no special flavor (literally identical nancy post). This one has lasted two days/nights and is actually named (Mini's Bathtub) and flavored, leading me to believe it is in fact

not

the standard "Oh your action also ccan neighborize" but instead something different.

This is an odd line of reasoning.

[Imperium]

Leon was a confirmable powering up role, remember?

His power role definitely didn't confirm him as town and he was a mislynch waiting to happen - wasn't exactly the kill I was expecting.

[Imperium]

Probably. Think it would be really dumb for Prism to go all in on such a tenuous thread.

[Imperium]

As scum. And generally I trust them to make the right play as scum more often than I trust them to make the right play as town.

[Imperium]

I also trust camn enough to cancel out the mason fakeclaim worry. It's MyLo, and lying about someone being confirmed town when they're not when the entire game is on the line is a mistake I don't think JaeReed in particular would make, and camn who is a smart and paranoid girl wouldn't let herself be taken for a ride that long and set up for a Cabd-Penguin moment. It makes sense to fake masons initially to draw a kill as hated but it doesn't make sense here. Doubtful third party lovers claim masons during the night phase as opposed to waiting until now; increases chances of a nightkill for pretty much no reason and is a dumb role I don't think Nancy would have included.

[Imperium]

I'm sorry, are you mad at the sound of the mislynch you'd been hoping for flying away?

U MAD BRO? isn't fun; it's overplayed. When I do it, it's typically so I can demonstrate confidence as scum; do you really think the best explanation for my approach here is "he's mad at losing a mislynch!!"?

[Imperium]

Didn't know that the second vote on Cary was NMS.

[Imperium]

Do I think Gin is scum? No.

[Imperium]

I have other work to do and am generally done with this game - happy to cross a river right after camn confirms that NMS is town one last time. If that's the case, I imagine that you're scum with Cary and VNB and you're not actually holding a vig shot.

[Imperium]

Or NMS is scum and camn is just throwing the game, which is not something that I'd like to believe but is something that I'm concerned about right now.

[Imperium]

I didn't get a report last night. You claimed to block me.

[Imperium]

Not going to solve this game. At the moment my only contribution is probably going to be "think about what you're doing" - if I'm wrong and the scumteam is dumb, oh well. If I'm right and the scumteam isn't that dumb, great, awesome - sorry for being fairly blase about it, but I've already spent more time here than I wanted to in the first place and the only thing this is accomplishing is reminding me why I needed the break in the first place.

[Imperium]

Imperium/Carya Circle Jerk Part 2

IS LITERALLY ALL OF NACHO'S POSTING DODGING AND WEAVING TRYING TO SAY PRISM SCUM BUT WONT.

I didn't say that Prism was scum.

[Imperium]

WHY THE FUCK WOULD SHE NOT LIE.

It gets them in a 1v1 with a mason pair in addition to VNB. That decreases their chances of winning.

[Imperium]

My special goodies were that I get to be treestump when I die; I kept that on the low low because if I got nightkilled by scum I'd still have results the next day.

[Imperium]

Pretty stoked about the experience I'm about to have yes

[Imperium]

Didn't admit to being a scum treestump, Gin is just incapable of reading. Kill me since I don't have time to project town --> lynch kmd tomorrow --> lynch mastina after that.

[Imperium]

Has mastina ever gotten a read on Ginngie wrong?

You don't need to trust her read on Ginngie; Ginngie looks remarkably town. Mastina is nowhere near that level of towniness.

[Imperium]

As far as having a feeling about the mason claim being fake when Mastina fake claims masons in pretty much every game ever... I think that's pretty much a given?

[Imperium]

I also didn't believe the guilty from someone I'd suspected all game on someone who looked pretty town - that's why I'm comfortable being shot. If you want to hit scum tonight you can shoot kmd (who basically has to be scum at this stage) and let Mastina and I 1v1 tomorrow, but shooting me and letting me be a ghost kid is pretty equivalent anyways.