Mini 1937 ~ Girls ♥ Girls 2: Mini's Apartment ~ Endgame

[NoticeMeSenpai]

hi I'm bored someone come hang out with me

We've got our own little hangout, sorry.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

I predict the scum will be camn, NoticeMeSenpai, and Prism

Well we certainly have something which could make us honorary scum...

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Well you posted the lyrics of a terrible song

VOTE: Spiffeh
YOU TAKE THAT BACK

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Well you posted the lyrics of a terrible song

VOTE: Spiffeh
YOU TAKE THAT BACK

Spiffeh and I are scum again, chainsaw vroom vroom

Is your third member KMD?

[NoticeMeSenpai]

if it's that bad is there a reason you're not just claiming it?

It's not really bad so much as it is something which has a reputation I'm poking fun of.

I'll explain when I claim but right now there's literally only one possible role in existence which would warrant us claiming, so. Unless I see that role claiming neither will I, short of danger necessitating it.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

so am I town yet or shall I waste more time?

Let me consult my magic 8 ball.

...

Well this is problematic.

I have an answer: "MY REPLY IS NO".

The question I had in my head which I actually asked was "is Ginngie scum?", yet you asked if you were town yet, and I'm not sure if the magic 8 ball was responding to your original inquiry or to MY inquiry.

Whoops.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

We've got our own little hangout, sorry.

orly?

YARLY.
What are the odds?

Though I have to ask are you even going to get my reference?

[NoticeMeSenpai]

You fence sitting little scumfuck! >_>

One should not confuse being cheeky and fencesitting with scumfuckery. The two are very different artforms.

between you and me, totes could see camn scum here, don't tell anyone yet tho

Legit serious, camn's not scum here.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

So you can read camn faster than me

When the magic 8 ball tells me alignments, sure. It says camn's town and it gave me a result on you but I'm not sure which question to use as the key to read it.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Specifically, use of "I" language really makes me doubt that it's either well thoughtout or discussed.

You uh.
You

do

know who's in this hydra, right?

[NoticeMeSenpai]

I'd expect you to either readily come out with it to begin with or to have discussed exactly how the early claim will go, and neither of those things seems to have happened.

With good reason. You'll understand when we do choose to claim. But I've already accomplished what I set out to do.

If you think the claim is scum, run us up and force a fullclaim. (You won't be happy when you do tho, though at least you'll have perfect understanding of why I said what I did.)

If you don't think the claim is scum, then scumhunt off of non-claim content.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

camn
Imperium
Polar Vortex
Ginngie
Prism
VNB National Plan
Ahsoka Tano
MaxwellPuckett
Heartless
Caryatid
Kmd4390
Spiffeh

[NoticeMeSenpai]

^Nacho when you get to it.

Those are essentially dead serious so.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

camn
Imperium
Polar Vortex
Ginngie
Prism
VNB National Plan
Ahsoka Tano
MaxwellPuckett
Heartless
Caryatid
Kmd4390
Spiffeh

KMD
Cary
Ahsoka
Spiffeh

Polar/Spiff/Heartless

Woodcutter power activate, turbolynch Spiffeh?

[NoticeMeSenpai]

@Notice:

Why's camn a hard TR for you?

Because she's our mason buddy, duh.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

town-camn, IMperium, mastina, Caryatid, Prism, Heartless
scum-Polar Vortex, KMD, Ahsoka Tano, Maxwell, Spiffeh

Hey Ginngie thanks for this!

So you see.

I was going to make a post. And say that "I don't have anything directly related to recent events to make me say this, but", but. Now that you've given me that. I actually AM going to say something which is directly related to recent events! Which is more convenient.

But basically.

I honestly think that we may be dealing with a Heartless-Spiffeh scumteam, wildcards KMD/Caryatid for the third slot...and a very, very strong lean towards said third being KMD.

You're clearing Heartless but I really don't think you should be. Heartless's posts are just coming across as empty. Their posting pattern is even what I'd expect from them as scum: Antihero coming into the game, yet having TTH take the charge since Anti sucks as scum (more or less anyway) and TTH prefers being scum. In this game, Antihero's in the back seat. Even when he was posting, his posting was timid, his posting was a bit reserved, his posting was relying on a crutch in the form of TTH. And now TTH comes forward and is pushing things which just don't seem town to me at all.

In every game I've had with Heartless, I've been able to lock them down as being town. (Or close enough, anyway.) But here there's just. There's nothing which is town. Heartless is always town when town yet here. Here I'm not seeing the town. And then there's the whole defense of Spiffeh.

And Spiffeh just.
Spiffeh just is scum.
You know those scumreads you get which you don't have the words for and yet are immensely strong?
It's one of those.

Spiffeh is just scum.
On every level.

And I legit.
Genuinely.
Think.

The scum are in a panic about Spiffeh being run up so early.
And them being powerless to stop it.

I'm absolutely terrified that the wagon will go away.
That someone will stupidly unvote for some frivolous reason. "Oh don't want Spiffeh to self-hammer". "It's too early to end the day". "Wait, hold on a sec, I think Spiffeh's town". "That claim seems town enough". "That claim buys him a day at minimum". Or any number of similar stock phrases. You get the idea there, right? I'm terrified someone will let the wagon we have fall apart. That it won't go through, that people will back down from it...

...When we

have

scum, dead to their rights, right in front of us in the here and now.
We also have a townbloc formed. Maybe not as strong of one as in, say, camn's revenge, but a strong start nonetheless. (For starters, camn/you/Imperium/us, just off the top of my head. There's probably more we can mostly or even universally agree upon but four isn't too shabby a start!) And that is something that scum can't break if we don't let them.

So let's not have a BTD6 mislynch this game.

Because Spiffeh is Secret Agent Jin/Katsuki. We might not have perfect agreement on the scumreads from there. If I survive the night then I can probably elaborate on my stances more elsewhere as necessary. But you have to fucking PROMISE me to not let Spiffeh escape our sights right here and now. No excuse, nothing, never unvote him, because we HAVE him.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Also for the record.
On the one hand.
I

kinda sorta

vaguely get the scumread on Ahsoka Tano and in fact to some extent saw it myself even without prompting.

But on the other hand.
I just actually really don't get the scumread on Ahsoka Tano at the same time?
Like.
I'm not sure how to explain that.

How I both get the scumread, yet don't understand it.
It's kinda I guess...I see the reason for suspicions, but I just really don't see the merit in them whatsoever? They seem blown widely out of proportion--that there may be stuff to dislike but overall Ahsoka Tano just feels town.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

You think me being on for one evening is me "taking charge"?

Not exactly. It's more.

There's a certain aura you and Anti have when you're town.
A dynamic where you just have this magical balance.
And this game the balance isn't there.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

the rush to "Hey everyone let's remake the camn's revenge townbloc!" with close to 0 vetting is disturbing.

It's not disturbing when you think about the players we've got.
I considered waiting on posting this but eh might as well post it now.

Imperium is town because this is their towngame, period. I can describe this if I'm forced to I guess, but it's just really really really obvious. I know Tammycho. And I know when they aren't scum and this game they just aren't scum.

Ginngie is town because I'm almost certain this is Ginngie's towngame. There's a life to it, there's the level of troll and yet playfulness and yet content and also drive that I'd expect plus what she's actually contributed is just spot on what Ginngie as town would create. What she's doing is exactly what she first did to get me my first townread on her in camn's revenge, essentially. This isn't something she can fake as scum.

Prism's posting bleeds town at every point. Every engagement, I just keep on seeing Prism as being town.

Ahsoka Tano is honestly one of my stronger townreads. I just really don't get why anyone could think Ahsoka Tano is actually scum when this just isn't scumplay. Not even remotely in any way, shape, or form.

Polar Vortex is a harder townread for me to explain but is indeed a townread. If you asked me to I could justify why they're so high in my readslist but they're just not someone I'd expect to be scum right now.


That narrows down our options quite a lot.

VNB National Plan is more of a null read.
MaxwellPuckett is also more of a null read.

Caryatid is an iffy read. I wasn't too fond of Caryatid's entrance and later content does little to reassure me. That being said, while their content isn't great, it's also not so terrible as to make me hate it. While I don't like it, I also don't distinctly think it's scum, so much as I think it's "possible scum but not most likely scum".

Kmd4390's posting is off-putting. The KMD I know is a player who I easily synergize with. I instantly get what KMD is doing. I instantly get where KMD is coming from. I know what KMD is doing, and I almost always agree with it. I might not have a carbon copy of KMD's reads, but I will have the same basis as KMD for my reads and yet here KMD is just off in a world which is entirely alien to me.

Heartless I've explained my stance on already. Their posting is hollow, artificial. It lacks the strength, it lacks the drive, they should have as town. There's also a lack of whimsy. Antihero in particular is a jokester. Where's the humor? Where's the witty banter? Where's the snide remarks? Where's the snarky dialog? Where's the lightheartedness? They're just so serious. So focused. So direct. So...so unlike everything I know their towngame to be. And their stances are terrible, too. When Heartless is town they have reads I can synergize well with. What they say, what they do, it makes sense. Here, there stances do not.

Spiffeh is just scum. Everything there is scum. E v e r y t h i n g. I could maybe vocalize this read if I put some severe effort into it. But dead serious, it'd be easier to list the things which aren't scum than to list the things which are. There's just nothing town in his approach this game. There's nothing town in his content. His contribution is flat. His entrance is empty. He's doing fuckall of nothing. He's just active lurking essentially. He's not scumhunting. He's not being helpful. He's just. There. Sticking out like a sore thumb. And even this fails to so much as remotely capture the essence of just why he is scum.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

mastina babe, Cary ain't scum, Cary she cares too much.
~Trust in the obscurity that is a Ginngie townread~

I can trust this.
Especially since it is something I want to trust!

But in exchange I do want you to trust me in whatever reads of mine you most doubt.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

But in exchange I do want you to trust me in whatever reads of mine you most doubt.

I'll trade you a heartless read for a Cary read

I can get behind that deal.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Mastina do you know why 317 makes me a little paranoid of you?

No and I don't particularly care either.

I am town, I am never being mislynched, the scum may or may not nightkill me depending on whether they feel I am a respectable threat but if they do let me live they'll quickly regret it.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

NoticeMeSempai: Please get Jaereed on the line.

Not gonna happen. Jae's stance on this game is, and I quote: "These sure are words." Jae'd be able to tell you the full quote, but that was the part I remembered clearly. Jae doesn't have any stances and doesn't look like they will be getting any any time soon. They're here for moral support and if they do get reads will likely become more involved but right now they have nothing and that's not changing any time soon so you'll have to live with me.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

We need heart emojis/thumbs up and down emojis/MOAR EMOJIS

(That's the mafiascum size for emojis, 15x15. I didn't bother getting better yellow coloring but close enough. )

~ Oh my god. Gross! ~

[NoticeMeSenpai]

(The heart I did color tho. It's pretty standard mafiascum coloring the only thing I didn't do was make a transparent background. Which is an easy fix.)

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Btw right now I'm making mod-endorsed spam.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

(Not that she'll admit it. )

~ #outed ~

[NoticeMeSenpai]

<3

~ <3 ~

[NoticeMeSenpai]

We need heart emojis/thumbs up and down emojis/MOAR EMOJIS

(That's the mafiascum size for emojis, 15x15. I didn't bother getting better yellow coloring but close enough. )

~ Oh my god. Gross! ~

HEY.
I PUT AT LEAST FIVE MINUTES OF EFFORT INTO EACH OF THOSE YOU MEANIE.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

(Be careful what you ask for. )

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Oh my god.

You mean "Oh my mod" (or in your case "oh dear me"), right?

[NoticeMeSenpai]

~ #outed ~

Embrace your status!

[NoticeMeSenpai]

LESBIANS LESBIANS LESBIANS

LESBIANS

[NoticeMeSenpai]

What the fuck happened in this ga--

>opens mafiascum in new tab
>sees unread posts in nancy's game
>reads spiff's latest postings
>swipes left

...Oh.

Okay then.

THAT IS IT???
What a let-down.

I mean.
Right now I'm reading everything being posted and I'm like.
Going.
"Why am I doing this?"

Because it's doing nothing to change anything. There's not really anything I feel like commenting on either.

Oh my god, you're arguing over mastina's motives in another game. I'm both fascinated and horrified at how pointless this is.

It's not quite pointless; it's showing how much of an absolute scumfuck Spiffeh is with his stances and how much Ginngie bleeds town so.

Productivity!

Anti what are your thoughts on my point re: Ginngie?

This is literally the way you push people as scum which you never do as town!

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Also the weird posting is my band aid not my drunk posting!

Sure it is.
We believe ya.

rawr

rwar?

I literally read all of this last night.
and I can't remember reading a damn word here

Same except substitute 'all' with 'maybe one tenth if that'.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Yo.
Not here.

Like really really really not here.

I mean Jae's not in this game at all and hasn't been from the getgo.
But now I who was in the game am not in it.

We don't need to replace out but I do need about a day (real life time) to get my grounding again so this is an elaborately-worded prod-dodge.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

drew them because couldn't words and sometimes when i can't words i can scumhunt in a different way.

Oh. Well then. I could obviously be wrong here but I believe I do in fact know who you are now! Hi! <3

(Yes, this is me. Only just now. Figuring it out.)

RE: you having concerns on my reads, even knowing who you are I must apologize, I still don't understand what your issue with them was.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

I'm gonna get bitched at for it but why am I town reading scum hunting using drawings

Because people are awesome and you don't want to lynch awesome people.

(To be honest knowing who it is tho: if memory serves. They are a player who I will always townread even when they are scum. My memory of games with them is a little rusty because while we have in fact played together recently most of our games together are older.)

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Dont tell anyone, but half the shit I do I just wing it and then make it sound like I planned it all along

You'd be surprised how much I do this too.
I mean.
I always have a plan.

Always

.

But like.
Sometimes that plan is just "improvise something", and then I'll pretend the thing I improvised was intentional.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

VOTE: camn

I mean as far as scum votes go there are very few ones you could make worse than this.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

ur cute when you are agro.

If by cute you mean cheeky scumfuck then yes.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

I want a bigger, more angry wagon.

I approve so long as it is on Spiffeh!

[NoticeMeSenpai]

All I see is trying to fight every single vote on him, try to get one of them scum read, use that to say it's a scum pushed wagon, ergo he's town, and then is no longer today's lynch. He seriously hasn't spent any time sorting other slots, just attacks on the 3 of Imperium, camn and myself over and over

^.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Like, his frustration is palpable. I almost feel bad for him. Is it because he is caught scum?

It is. He feels caught for the wrong reasons. I know I am stubborn town. I know Ginngie is supporting me and she's a disciple of mine so can be plenty stubborn. And you're a little stubborn too. So he's fighting a wagon he knows contains people he thinks are voting him for shitty reasons. This doesn't change regardless of his alignment, so his frustration is genuine regardless of his alignment. But he's just scum.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

*ahem*
A little bit TOO excited about the avatar maybe?

No you have every right to be considering how beautiful it is. <3

[NoticeMeSenpai]

BUT, to be fair...plenty of Townies ad-hom thier wagons to death, too.

*points to Spiffeh's Paragon of Mafia Hunters banner*
Let me ask ya.
You think that's a player who ad homs their wagon to death?

[NoticeMeSenpai]

VOTE: Maxwell

Ginngie no.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

my personal experience with mastina in WWF mafia where I was scum and mastina had me as such a strong town read that I constantly was referred to as a "mason buddy".

Yeah KMD can be scum for this.

Everyone

was scum in WWF.
Including me.
Including KMD.
KMD was solo-scum though. A serial killer. All of KMD's reads were genuine, and that's why we were working well together. Though, me calling KMD my mason-buddy was actually me specifically as scum

buddying KMD

.

Ginngie was 100% right in the Ginngie-Spiffeh fight.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: MaxwellPuckett

CAMN.
NO.
STAHP.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

I know you said before that Spiff is a read you can't really explain, but can you explain what you saw in their exchange that gave you that impression? Because I had the opposite view from reading that.

Because I am the player being talked about.

Ginngie was 100% right about everything she was saying RE: me.

Spiffeh was mostly wrong about everything he was saying RE: me.

And as the player they were talking about my opinion should hold some fucking weight should it not?

[NoticeMeSenpai]

^townposting

camn pls.
Don't do this to me.
It wasn't townposting.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

MaxwellPuckett (4)

~ Prism, Heartless, Ginngie, camn

This wagon is bad, and you should feel bad. Except scum, they're okay except that they're bad just in a different way.

camn (2)

~ Ahsoka Tano, Spiffeh

This wagon is scum, and you should feel proud for being scum.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Gin what was your reason for leaving my wagon and going elsewhere?

This is scum, but I'm having difficulty with words describing why.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

The more absent mastina is the more likely it is that she is scum

Yeah just fuck you regardless of your alignment for that.
This is a fucking low-blow if you're scum.
It is flat-out unacceptable for you to make that comment as town.
It's vaguely pursuing your wincon as scum, yes, I get that. But even there it's still a fucking low blow so just fuck you.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

The more absent mastina is the more likely it is that she is scum

I actually agree with you on this

Ginngie.
Fuck off.

You know better than that.

I don't want to give negative words to a friend.
So don't make me.

Drop. It.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

I don't really see any reason people are town reading camn other than meta reasons (which I can't relate to) and her "early content" which I don't really understand when looking at it.

Because camn is my mason buddy, duh.
I thought we were clear on this.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

I agree Ahsoka Tano is scummy and worthy of being run up but I'm not gonna take someone's word for it that their original account makes them like 20 times scummier when I can't verify myself

This is scum wanting to stay off of the lynch.

Regardless of Ahsoka Tano's alignment.

This is scum.

If Ahsoka Tano is scum this is scum wanting to avoid lynching their scum partner with a pointless bus.
If Ahsoka Tano is town this is scum wanting to get some cheap towncred for white knighting the mislynch bait and also avoid the suspicion of the mislynch wagon.

Either way this is just not town.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

btw i figured out who you are and i feel stupid it took me this long

I KNOW RITE

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Why do you think this?

I don't remember where or why I got this impression but somewhere I did?

[NoticeMeSenpai]

I obviously don't. But YOU should, no?

Why did you think that Heartless should consider mastina as scum while you weren't?

M A S O N B U D D Y.
Spelled out for ya.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

So I put this in the PT right now for my partner who in theory would read it, but I feel like I might as well share it now in spite of me not yet being caught up.

RE: my reads/contribution.
In some games, you have trouble doing anything. You are out of it, you have nothing, you are struggling every step of the way. It's shitty but it is what it is and nothing can fix it except time and luck and events happening in-thread which trigger motivation. When I think of this type of game I think "I can't do anything and I don't know why I can't do anything but I can't do anythiiiiiiiiiiiing". This isn't this game because I've done something. Okay so it's that type of game for JaeReed (<3), but it's not that type of game for ME. (Somewhere down the line somehow I'll figure out a way to get them back in the game. I kinda suck at it tho. Jae got me back into the game when I got out of it in For Us, but I don't know how to return the favor.)

Most games, you instead get a mold more akin to "do stuff, change as new stuff comes in, repeat ad naseum" (I think that's the right term): you get reads, you fade in and out, and those reads constantly change. There's a progression in reads as things unfold and new information comes in. Yet this is not one of those games.

Why is it not one of those games?

Because for better or for worse this game is a rare third type of game for me.
What is that game?

The game where you get something, and...
...Nothing really changes?

Like.
Some things change.
Caryatid more town for instance.
But mostly by and large my reads remain the same and nothing is changing because nothing about them has changed? They felt good. They STILL feel good.

I could talk about my reads and the nuances in them. Yet mostly they haven't changed...

and I feel strongly

that's not a bad thing

. People rightly so seem to assume that static reads are a bad thing. YES, they are often a sign of scum. YES, they are often a sign of confirmation biased town if not scum. YES, they are a sign of town whose reads haven't evolved. But honestly. I can't explain to you why. But I have zero fucking problem with my lack of read evolution this game. The exact strength of my reads may vary but the overall feel, the overall flow of them remains mostly the same.

And that just feels right. I don't feel guilty for having the same reads. I don't feel like I should be ostracized. I don't feel

wrong

to be having the feelings I do, the same feelings I had at gamestart. Because to me I feel like in spite of all the content since then. Essentially, effectively. Nothing has really, truly changed at all. I'm sorry, but I'm not sorry about that. I stand by my reads. Because I still believe in them. And I feel like I have EVERY reason to still believe in them.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Spiffeh what was Mastina's read on you in bio?

You have to understand that I did my standard treatment of neighborhoods in Biochemistry.

That being, my standard stance. "Let's treat everyone as conftown in here as if it were a masonry." I do this literally every single time I land a neighbor role, even in games where everyone is in a neighborhood. (See also, SMITE.) This meant that I didn't bother to read Spiffeh D1. I automatically assumed he was town, because I automatically assumed all members of my neighborhood were town because that is my standard operating procedure when I land a neighborhood role. Give everyone a pass temporarily, and then develop a better stance on them at a later time.

When Ginngie, a member of our neighborhood, flipped scum, I extended that pass an extra day. SAD, a member of our neighborhood, was nightkilled after Ginngie, a scum member of our neighborhood, was lynched. It was plausible we had a masonry--so I was going to treat it as such for all of D2. So once again. I did not bother to sort Spiffeh's alignment. I assumed he was town, but made note of how SAD had suspicion of Spiffeh and then SAD died. I wasn't going to voice this suspicion though because I wanted to see how things in our neighborhood would play out.

During N2, Sakura Hana received a combination of inventions which made a gamebreaking strategy plausible. I suggested it and Spiffeh followed it. Unfortunately, Sakura Hana miscalculated timezones and thus did not submit in time the appropriate actions to implement this strategy. However, the results of the night indicated that the scumteam had shot unaware of the strategy's existence--circumstantial evidence for Spiffeh being town. This was not enough to hard-clear him, but it was enough to make him be someone I held zero interest in lynching until much later down the line.

Not long after, Spiffeh claimed tracker-inventor. You have to understand we were down to two scum at that point in a setup with four known scum and a jailkeeper-inventor. With the lynch of one final scum, we could break the game using tracks because tracks every night + jailkeep every night + one scum alive = townclears like crazy cropping up OR scum needing to no-kill and giving town extra lynches. Win-win. At this point, I had to keep Spiffeh alive because of his role. Regardless of his alignment, regardless of my thoughts on whether he was town or scum, his role was VITAL to POE, to the gamebreaking strategy to narrow down the scumpool day after day.

Come the day we lynched said third scum, I was scumreading Spiffeh especially when he gave his invention to me. However, because the only ones alive in our neighborhood at the time were me and Spiffeh, I had nowhere where I could express the thought of "I think Spiffeh could be scum, but I need the tracker-inventor regardless of his alignment" safely, because if I expressed that thought openly I KNEW I was eating the nightkill. I ate the nightkill

anyway

, but I knew that if I told Spiffeh I held suspicion of him I was dead.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

tl;dr version: I treated Spiffeh as town the whole game the same way I treated Ginngie as town during her tenure there. That did not mean I townread them.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

VOTE: AHSOKA TANO

I have no energy to fight this and even if I did I'm not entirely sure I'd want to but even so that said I'm just.
sigh.
Not happy with this.
Not optimistic it'll flip scum and even if it did not optimistic it'll actually do anything to help us.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

(though maybe from team mafia? I think antihero said something in one game about how if they had drawn scum TTH would have taken it over antihero. I'm not sure if she read that game though.)

It had to have come from somewhere and remember I was in team mafia so there's like a significant chance I did in fact read that so.

Also that's not really my Heartless read.
Not really.

I don't know how to tell you what my Heartless read is. How to explain the scumread there.
But I know I can tell you your description of the scumread isn't right.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Spoiler:

Is it bad that my first thought was "why is nancy posting a picture of lesbininjas"?

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Mastina! Hi! It's good to see you!

<3
I'm caught up so now's a good time to ask questions. <3

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Are you still scumreading Heartless? I've felt pretty good about them lately, been nodding along as they post stuff and their tone has seemed okay to me. pedit: I can see that's a yes but I'm leaving this in because I want to express that I don't understand and I want to.

Yes.
I just don't see them as town.
I don't get it.

I always have gotten it before.
I've always gotten them as town when they are town.
Yet here I just don't really see it. I don't know how to explain why I don't see it. I don't know how to explain why this equates to a scumread. But I don't see them as town and I'm sorry that I can't but I can't lie and say I do when I don't. Sure it's probably a stupid read but it's also one which I don't really feel like I should feel stupid for having.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Btw please don't lynch Ahsoka Tano for a while.
I want to at least try to get Jae's input there because that's something they could maybe actually help me on even if they're "out" of the game as it were.
I asked them and they said they'd try, but they don't have time for it tonight.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Can you talk about your Maxwell read at all? Is it more townreading Max or more confidence in your scumreads elsewhere or something else?

It's a combination of factors, actually.

Maxwell is a nulltownread, in that there's not really much to go off of but I don't actually get a feeling that Maxwell's scum. Gut, essentially, tells me that Maxwell just isn't scum.

This is indeed bolstered by my confidence in my

actual

scumreads. I have three rather solid ones I have great confidence in (even if I suck at explaining them). One of them, Heartless, was on the wagon and not likely in a way which would be a bus. Which brings me to another part. When you wagon on players, sometimes you just get a ~feeling~ about the person you're wagoning, off of the circumstances behind the wagon. The circumstances behind the wagon on MaxwellPuckett suck. They don't feel towndriven at all; they don't feel like a lynch at scum at all. (The opposite of Spiffeh, which was 100% towndriven and felt like a lynch on scum.)

I realize there's nothing really tangible to talk about, but then that's not all too surprising when you've got a slot who has not contributed much, and yet would do so regardless of alignment. (Especially given that replace-out request.)

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Ahsoka is at L-3 right now, and I'll try to buy you time if I can, but the deadline metre is at 22% (down from 34% yesterday), so Jae needs to get to this in the next day or two because we have plurality lynches in this game.

24 hours should be enough. <3

[NoticeMeSenpai]

The worst part is she's probably town

Still have my problems with camn but I think TTH brought up some good points regarding her reaction to Ginngie's self vote that seemed town and resonated with me.

I don't really have any solid scum reads anymore.

Town: {Heartess, NoticeMeSenpai}
Townlean: {Imperium, Prism, Ginngie, Caryatid, VNB National Plan}
Null: {Kmd4390, MaxwellPuckett, camn}
Scumlean: {Ahsoka Tano, Polar Vortex}
Scum: {}

I have vague town feelings about too many slots and that makes me uncomfortable.

I'll explain this more after I get home from work, especially the Polar Vortex read. Feel free to ask me other questions in the mean time.

Here's the thing.
I have literally read snippets and not had any drive whatsoever for this game.
Yet I had my attention directed here and so have been mildly checking with new posts.

I don't think scum posts this.
I know mastina scumreads Spiff and what I saw of him I was thinking was different from Civ maf in a tangible manner but I was also thinking that Civ maf was a fucking spamfuckery of ego and I can understand why anyone would be different from that.

But this?
I don't think this comes from scum.
I know this doesn't mean much considering Spiff's not the one on the chopping block right now but I figure while I have thoughts and feelings about the game I better throw them out there.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

<3 <3 <3

But sadly, no, I have no real idea. Sorry.
A thing with this game was I kept looking at posts and really just seeing... words. I couldn't pick anything alignment indicative from them.
I don't know what would cause that, honestly. It could just be my poor mental health, or it could be that I'm losing my love for mafia. Not sure.
Could just be my new job where I am pitted against people that caused me to lose my job before so I feel like I'm already questioning everything from everything wrt interactions and end up burnt out before I even start to do it for fun. < which would be a contender if I felt this way about every game but I don't.

I can guarantee that I feel super shitty about leaving mastina to hold the fort and then not bothering to even keep current to try to get reads. Especially since she did the same to me in For Us.
I am following a little more closely than I was. So if you point me to some posts I can try to give off the cuff thoughts there, and maybe that would help me get into the game.
Honestly what would help most of all is a ride or die read getting wagoned. I remember being super disinterested in a game once before and copper got wagoned and I realized he was town for the tone of a post as he realized he was going to be the D1 mislynch and that really helped drag me back into caring about the game. I'd rather that not happen here, but y'know...

[NoticeMeSenpai]

I don't really have any solid scum reads anymore.

I have vague town feelings about too many slots and that makes me uncomfortable.

These, Spiff.

I understand that any scum can fake this.
I don't believe it's faked.
I especially don't believe that you take THIS approach as scum to the game.
I know I'm not caught up on the gamestate and the gamestate may very well require you to take this approach.
I know I don't know you well enough to make such a judgement call.
And all the same I just... Don't think this is scum coming from you at this point in time.

Call it strong gut.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

what the fuck ever, mastina. seeya on the other side of the scum flip.

Also side note hot take from someone who has no meta on them as a player and no idea of the gamestate.

This very strongly reads like someone who is trying to fake confidence in a wagon flipping scum. I don't believe the sentiment here, basically.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

OH YEAH NANCY BEFORE I FORGET

http://everydayfeminism.com/2015/03/dic ... on-racism/

^ handy link for when the "dictionary definition" argument comes up. I know you didn't wanna get in that argument earlier and I would have posted it but that would have required me logging in and I was in bed so, meh.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

I'm not saying Ahsoka is scum lurking but nancy has more content in thread....

I'm not saying that this is one of the easiest pushes to make for scum but....oh wait, I am saying that.

inb4 ahsoka flips scum lmao.
I promised mastina I'd read the ISO but like, instead I'm here staring into space half the time and thinking about what I have to do at work in like...8 hours.
Speaking of.
Goodnight. <3

[NoticeMeSenpai]

^ but seriously though, your posts aren't doing any favors because now I feel like that's a policy lynch based on lurking and those hardly ever hit scum. Throw me something content based and I'll review it from bed? Even just a link to a previous post where Ahsoka is cased would be great.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Ohhh this is Shadoweh? I figured by the time it was B. <3

Different head, this is jae. I haven't really read the game.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

It's interesting that you gave me mastina's stance though because my assumption was that she was scumreading them.

Pedit ahahaha are you English too? :3 I felt bad because I recently checked a post and saw Bella ask mastina for me and I definitely would have checked in just for banter if I'd known but I didn't tell mastina in advance to let me know if she wanted me so rip.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Wait, shit you're the other one Bella actually wanted to talk. Uhm, uhm, hello mate, good to see you poppin in wot say you take a gander at everything else that's been bandied around about Ahsoka and see it tain't just about lurkin' cheerio pip

You probs know better than I do where the cases/arguments are at. Help me out? <3

[NoticeMeSenpai]

I can't tell if that's English taking the piss outta themselves or American trying to make a joke about not being the person I want.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

I got to an early point of Ahsoka's iso where they were accused of lurking despite having posted and it was one of those things where I checked the timestamps and had question marks pop up above my head. The whole dog confused noise and head tilt thing. I might not get it just by iso reading.

Are there particular points you feel ahsoka was avoiding commenting on or commented on in a scum indicative manner? What would you say is different from ahsoka's active lurking and my half checking the game at times but not posting or getting reads?

Pedit: thanks

[NoticeMeSenpai]

As much as I agree, I also disagree. Hydras are a joining of personalities, but dissonance happens. Hydras are more a dual personality extension tha an alt. You have to work things out else there will bw no agreement. And with some hydras, like Heartless, it is obvious who is in the hydra and who is talking. With new or unknown hydras it is definitely better to have heads in the sig.

Why are we on about this though when it is completely NAI?

Oh, also, I know you, Heartless. Is this not as weird as Caryatid knowing you?

I really don't like that in the face of being very behind, this is the stuff Ahsoka chooses to respond to.

I can totally see a weak scum player see me blowing up and do the bare minimum to go unnoticed and let me bury my own grave.

Found Heartless post unimpressive and does nothing to change my initial impression there.
This one does pique my interest though and would love to know where the thing with spiff starts because this is a gamestate read that could have a lot of merit. I know as scum I like to try to let town implode as much as possible, so it's not at all unlikely.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

You're actually trying to interact with people. That's a pretty low bar to set for not being a scumbag imo.

I wasn't earlier. I wasn't posting at all.
Though I guess now that I think of it there's not much comparison to be had between someone just not here even if I read posts sometimes and someone who was around and posting on recentish stuff but not other recentish stuff? What I'm seeing here seems to be that argument anyways.

I think heartless is scum here with a higher probability than ahsoka, honestly. I liked Caryatid's post on the matter because it showcases more than one side to it and I do tend to agree with the points. I think this is probably a subpar lynch overall but I also think a heartless lynch, which would be where I'm leaning currently, would be unlikely to happen at this stage I think, so I don't particularly oppose it. Especially so if I'm assuming a mislynch either way.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

help I'm being scolded for pretending to be british

IS SHE AWAKE?!?! *perks up*

[NoticeMeSenpai]

*purrs* hiii <3
What do you need from me, babe?

[NoticeMeSenpai]

lol she's at a train station, I don't think she can post r/n but I'm telling her how popular she is

despite me doing all the posting

why am i even here it's not like anyone loves me better

the chopped liver part of this hydra

The secret to my heart is to recognize when I want to build a pillow fort and face the tickle monster and when I want scritches behind the ear. :3 you too can have the unconditional love of a Jae for playing this simple guessing game.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

It's mostly your reads? They don't seem justified and if something doesn't make sense, I generally don't believe it.

*Scritches* I hated the spiffeh push and your random town read on Ashoka.

<3 <3 <3
I can't answer for mastina because I haven't been around even reading her thought spam in the pt. I think so far what I've seen of spiffeh reacting to his push it doesn't look all that unreasonable.

I know people tend to hate aggressiveness, defensiveness, and overreaction to pressure but like I kind of lean towards "bad" reactions to mediocre pushes actually being more likely from town? I know as scum I'm more inclined to try to shrug off a push and as town I can do so for a while before it just -gets- to me. I think spiffehs reaction could be scum bit more likely is just town because he's a decent enough player to know his reaction there really wouldn't earn him any favors as scum. I could be placing too much faith in his competence as scum there but eh.

I'm pretty much null on ahsoka from what I've I read up to and the tidbits given to me so far. Don't like the push from heartless but I like spiffeh and Cary's points. Think they hold merit from what I know of how my mindset works as scum and I don't feel as though either of them are holding ulterior motives for pushing this regardless of the flip.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

beautiful, gun to head (or, under the threat of no cuddles) is spiffeh town or scum

Town.
I'm uncomfortably aware that this is in direct opposition to what I think mastina's stance is. I'm hoping my bit earlier will spark some discussion with her about it, but I do believe he's town.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

what the fuck ever, mastina. seeya on the other side of the scum flip.

Also side note hot take from someone who has no meta on

them

¹ as a player and no idea of the gamestate.

This very strongly reads like someone who is trying to fake confidence in a wagon flipping scum. I don't believe the sentiment here, basically.

1. Does this them refer to Heartless or to Asokah?

To Heartless.
I have a passing knowledge of TTH from watching a game recently but it was really brief before she was night killed and I don't feel as though I learned much if anything from it with regards to her.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

ok i see my mistake

a colon after "gamestate" would've made that clearer

My bad.

And to answer your question it feels as though it's a push that is over justified on your end but with reasoning that doesn't have any strong backing. Especially not strong enough for your certainty in the post that first pinged me when I entered the game tonight.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

thanks babe. Any thoughts on cam and prism?

also many hugs

<3 ALL of the hugs! <3
Cam is towntown.
I haven't seen prism posts so much to have any read there, sorry babe. <3 I'll keep trying to get into this game for you tomorrow night though <3

[NoticeMeSenpai]

I should. But that's something that would take more time and investment than I have right now. Particularly the investment. Realizing there are actually lots of people I like I can interact with in this game does help some, but as for whether it ultimately trumps playing games and hanging out with my girl in my spare time.... Bella would need to give me a LOT of cuddles and scritches and crafts time for that.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

also if u disagree w me that it's weird af to make a big deal out of doing something trivial and then not even follow up on THAT and using that as a way to dodge elaborating on positions, idk what common ground there is to be had here

Why is it that you've backtracked here to "weird af" when before you seemed convinced they were flipping scum?
Things like this ping me.
It feels like you're picking on objectively bad play rather than scum motivated play. I think town or scum can make weird af posts and not follow through. I think that's a personality trait.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

My God I'm still awake and I have work in...6ish? Hours.

...I'll go have my drink of water now before Bella sees this and pokes me to go to sleep.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

ok then would u do me a solid and not scream i'm scum and call for my lynch based on incomplete information?

I'm hardly screaming. :/ I stated my opinion based on what I read. I'm sorry if you feel I am.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Why is it that you've backtracked here to "weird af" when before you seemed convinced they were flipping scum?

that's not a backtrack....

I don't consider weird to be in the same category as scummy. Sorry I should allow more room for using the terms interchangeably. It's just you asked me why I was scumreading you and I'm trying my best to point out what issues I have.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Why is it that you've backtracked here to "weird af" when before you seemed convinced they were flipping scum?

that's not a backtrack....

I don't consider weird to be in the same category as scummy. Sorry I should allow more room for using the terms interchangeably. It's just you asked me why I was scumreading you and I'm trying my best to point out what issues I have.

i asked BEFORE you crammed in that "backtrack" jab

if you say i'm pushing "personality" i counter with "bullshit, substituting fluff for content isn't personality"

You did, but I factored in going forward that you wanted more explanation on things I didn't like coming from you.

I don't think all of the points are personality but I think your points in particular are weaker and being pushed with more certainty than you should have. Could I be wrong? Absolutely. From what I've seen are you a worse slot to lynch if I am wrong? I wouldn't say it would be unfair to say yes here as I know at least TTH can have some really good insight about the game as town. Am I going to go ham and try to derail the lynch and push it onto you at this stage of the day? Nope, not given the answer to the previous question and certainly not given the fact I haven't read the game in full and talked to mastina about it.

I feel as though you're being really confrontational right now over something that is a non issue, especially if you believe ahsoka is flipping scum as you'd have nothing to worry about in that case.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

I think Bella caught the train but I will yell for her, GO TO BED

What if she wasn't going to tell at me and I was hoping for a pat on the head and a "good girl" for pre-empting wanting a drink before bed? :c I was good and you yelled at me....meanie.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

<3 Shadoweh though. Thanks, I'll go to sleep now.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Oh hey I forgot nighttalk was a thing this game.

Spoiler: NSFW

You know if it weren't for the hair (ewwwwwwwww yuck how the fuck would you ever get that shit out it's nasty), I'd actually be down for that. <3

lol she's at a train station, I don't think she can post r/n but I'm telling her how popular she is

despite me doing all the posting

why am i even here it's not like anyone loves me better

the chopped liver part of this hydra

The secret to my heart is to recognize when I want to build a pillow fort and face the tickle monster and when I want scritches behind the ear. :3 you too can have the unconditional love of a Jae for playing this simple guessing game.

The things you learn about your lover.
<3

And if this is the player I think it is.. I love me a scumlynch.

Aristophanes was my top guess for who Ahsoka Tano was!

Town was my top guess for what Ahsoka Tano would flip!

I wish I would've had the strength to push that read stronger tho.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Is lurker-Aristo really your top guess for scum-Aristo?

I mean ISNT?

Yes and no.
I'll let you know outside this but basically; if I'd known he was Ari beforehand that mastina was making that call on I probably would have defended him when I was around because she has a track record with me of telling me town!Ari or scum!Ari and now I feel like a little shit for not being around more and also for telling her I didn't think that was Ari when he was alting and she told me her guess.
I'll catch up over the night phase and try to dump my thoughts in the pt.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

^^
If I knew it was Ari I would have backed mastina 100%

Anyway, I feel like I have a renewed energy in this game for ~reasons~ so I'm gonna try to read up tomorrow and actually be anything but a lurksack of a hydra head. <3 Sorry for the freeloading up til this point.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

I'll let you know outside this

(JaeReed is stealing this from me. )

[NoticeMeSenpai]

You were scum together with her in Disney Villain. She was town together with you in Cougar's Den and Gumball and you were scum against her in Defcon and Biochemistry.

I should give the caveat that Spiffeh could reasonably say he still has not seen me as scum.

In Disney Villain Mafia, I was having

incredible

trouble playing. I was flat-out considering retiring from mafia altogether because nothing I was doing was working. The ~charm~ wasn't there. The magic wasn't there. I wasn't able to play ANY game effectively. I halfassed Cougar's Den; I was deadweight in Gumball; I was deadweight in Disney Villain Mafia--and that was troubling. Because me as deadweight as town? Well,

disappointing

, but not unexpected because it's not altogether that unusual.

Me as deadweight as fucking SCUM? Something's very, very, very, VERY wrong. I wasn't playing at even 50% in Disney Villain. I'd say I wasn't even at 20%. It was like. 10% max. And I knew it and I hated it and the only reasons I didn't replace out were a combination of my stubborn pride and the fact that I knew that my replacement might be some idiot who wouldn't be able to play scum to save their life. (Because no fucking duh I think that nobody can match me as scum. Even with me not playing well I was assuming a replacement would play worse.)

Disney Villain Mafia was the game which showed me how I was in no shape to be playing. When I suck as town it's not a remarkable event, so I wrote games like Gumball off as being me being me. As me being my normal incompetent townie self. It happens. How often it happens, subject to debate (some argue literally every game, some insist it's an exception to the general rule; I favor a middle ground between the two), but that it does happen is under absolutely no debate whatsoever; it's a proven fact.

Me sucking as SCUM? It is something noteworthy. I don't suck at scum. I'm not quite invincible as scum...but I am pretty close. It is very very very very very difficult for me to, as scum, not hold significant dominance. Often subtly so. The best control is the control which doesn't look like it is actually being in control. (If it looks like you're not influencing lynches, then you look innocent when said lynches flip town and if it looks like you're not trying to earn town credit when you bus, then you earn town credit for a successful bus.) So me being abysmal as scum--and I was in Disney Villain Mafia, I have nothing positive to say of my performance there--means that Spiffeh would be well within his rights to say he hasn't REALLY seen me as scum because saying Disney Villain Mafia is my scumplay is about as accurate as saying Newbie 688 is my scumplay.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

NoticeMeSenpai:

How much of your play thus far has been Jae, and how much of it mastina?

this post, 1188, was JaeReed's first post in the game and their first real contribution to the game. They may have done some really really really early stuff in chat/our PT but nothing tangible. It was all me prior to that point.

I have the special knowledge that me -> Ari was a town to town wagon switch, but I don't have any reads based on that fact, yet.

How about that the wagon prior to you was Spiffeh?

It went Spiffeh-->Maxwell-->Aristophanes.

And for me the suspicious switch

isn't

Maxwell-->Aristophanes.
For me the suspicious switch is Spiffeh-->Maxwell.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Why is it important to separate the Notice heads?

*points to Antihero's ragequit due in part to me*
...I think there's your answer right then and there.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Hi I believe we're still in the game so we need to give the appropriate contribution!

Usually I wake up and there is mad drama.

I could always talk about my life! There's allllllllllllllllllways drama there.

Spoiler:

To be fair, on family night, the stove clock is actually the most convenient clock to look at and everyone does so...much to their dismay if something is actually IN the oven because then the oven doesn't actually show the time.

Oh my dear Shadoweh, you have noooooooooooo idea how deep my bank of misandry gifs is.

If I'm not mistaken, mastina doesn't believe in lurking strategically.

Indeed I do not. It is a despicable strategy and anyone who so much as considers doing it is trash. Those who make the accusation are arguably even worse. You do NOT make that accusation because you do NOT do that as a player. If I were to accuse you of, say, lying about real-life to gain an advantage in the game, you'd want to go ballistic against me, yes? It's a universal standard.

I just get this sinking feeling in my chest whenever I read Jae's posts.

Jae had quite the reaction to this so this might be something good to elaborate on for their sake.

I do. My ISO should give you a pretty solid idea of them. If not, my top three picks for scum are Ginngie, Prism, and maxwell (now leon). Top three town are camn, spiff, and cary.

Okay.

Sempai, when you said 'And for me the suspicious switch isn't Maxwell-->Aristophanes.
For me the suspicious switch is Spiffeh-->Maxwell' we're wondering what you meant by that?
We get the gist but did you come to any conclusions about what made it more suspicious?

Um.

It's really self-explanatory?

Spiffeh is scum and was wagoned.
MaxwellPuckett was Spiffeh's counterwagon.
When Spiffeh's wagon dissolved, the MaxwellPuckett wagon dissolved and in its place the Ahsoka wagon formed: trading one mislynch for another mislynch. This is something scum don't care about. This is something scum aren't going to force.

But Spiffeh (scumwagon)-->MaxwellPuckett (townwagon) WAS something I thought scum would have interest in.

Btw this all said I was thinking of voting KMD but I might actually vote Leonshade because I am :underwhelmed: and Leonshade as town is not underwhelming.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

NMS: Okay so like, I get what you're saying but I'm noticing some.. let's say, assumptions about Spiffeh and about Leon's alignment that make that weird. Also you're considering voting for the person you just said is a town wagon hop. I think Leon's fully capable of being scum but like, you could at least acknowledge you've probably changed your mind on it instead of still calling Spiffeh scum.

The two aren't mutually exclusive.

I still have suspicion on Spiffeh it's just that now I also have some on Leonshade which is the Maxwell slot so.

Senpai! I need your advice on this.

If this is Ginngie as scum she has radically, radically, drastically on a FUNDAMENTAL LEVEL, significantly altered her approach to the game as scum. I'm not going to flat-out declare that much of a paradigm shift absolutely impossible. I will however strongly note it's incredibly improbable.

Ginngie is, regardless of her alignment, cheeky. But there's a very, very, very, very strong, sharp contrast between her being cheeky as town and her being a cheeky scumfuck. I've seen no sign of her being a cheeky scumfuck. Cheeky, yes. But not cheeky scumfuck. The way she's approaching the game is just not what I'd expect to see from her as scum on any level.

This is not the Ginngie from games like For Us, Biochemistry, and the like. This IS the Ginngie from games like Night and Day, camn's revenge, British Monarchy Mafia, UPickInFreezer, and the like. I simply don't believe that Ginngie is able to so perfectly mimic the things she does as town. I just don't believe that Ginngie was able to so perfectly hide all the things she has done as scum. Because I've SEEN Ginngie in her recent games. As town, as scum. I've seen her approach in them. And there's nothing in her approach this game which is like her scumgames and there's everything in her approach this game which is like her towngames so like.

It's not impossible for me to get the read wrong because it's not impossible for Ginngie to grow to the point where this would be a viable level for her scumgame. But it IS incredibly improbable. I don't think that Ginngie accidentally is able to fool me like this and is wondering how the fuck I misread her. I don't think Ginngie is INTENTIONALLY able to try and fool me and is giddy with the success from having done so. The latter in particular would be rather obvious to me I'm pretty sure. So I'm reasonably confident this is just a town Ginngie.

But if you like Leonshade that much.

VOTE: KMD.
Then you can join me here in this righteous crusade!

[NoticeMeSenpai]

SEMPAI

! I'm not feeling a KMD lynch!
and I wanna be with caryatad and ginngie.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: leonshade
Come argue with me about it, since our PT is locked up.

I realize you want me to argue but I'm REALLY not in an argumentative mood if you haven't noticed by me not really addressing most of the stuff sent my way. I'm a little bit lifeless right now but sure. I can join ya there.
VOTE: Leonshade.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

VOTE: Polar Vortex.
This is a Jae-vote for the most part; there's more thoughts to it than that but I don't quite have the mindset right now to explain.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

So on a KMD scumflip, mastina is 100% scum.

No.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

It's actually bothering the fuck out of me that when I decide to push KMD, camn and mastina bail and Polar is pushed instead.

Blame a combination of camn and Jae.

camn said, "Hey my mason, come join me on Polar Vortex!".
Jae said, "I am super mega scumreading Polar Vortex right now".
I was like.
"Well okay. My townread there has deteriorated. Not confident, but sure, why not. I've got nothing better."

So there we were and so I cast the vote and honesty I can say that I have mixed emotions in that part of me regrets letting go of the correct townread and yet at the same time I feel like. "Sorry, not sorry?" Because while I'm sad that I was wrong when I was originally right. I don't actually feel bad for having been wrong?

Like. For Aristophanes. I felt bad. I regretted not being there to help him because I did know he was town and I should have stuck stronger to my guns there.
For Polar Vortex...that regret's not really there? I regret changing the read. And yet at the same time. I don't regret the wrong read. It felt like something not worth regretting.

Tell me, do you regret hammering Polar Vortex?
Be honest with me, do you?
...No?

...Well then you should get what I mean here. I'm not actually sorry. So I'm not going to pretend I am.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

I actually think the mastina slot needs a fuck ton more attention tbh.

I actually think you are dead wrong.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

mastina, why should I be town reading you?

I'm not doing this shit.

No means fucking no.

I am town, I am obviously town, our hydra is obviously town, our play is lackluster but lackluster is actually a sign we're fucking town not that it's really relevant, but us as lackluster does nothing to change how we are still town.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Also fuckit.

I actually think the mastina slot needs a fuck ton more attention tbh.

Yeah I agree. I think we've been getting complacent.

Jae is scumreading Caryatid and at this point I'm not inclined to disagree. I know that I always read Caryatid as town regardless of their alignment so I know I don't have the ability to actually tell when Caryatid is scum and when I see shit like this I'm right there along-side Jae thinking that yes it actually is the Caryatid who is scum since moments like this fundamentally feel

wrong

and in addition to the wrongness there's also how a scum-Caryatid also fills in the gaps in a scumteam nicely in that it explains the gamestate and why it's been so hard to lock scum down.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

@NMS (specifically mastina):

How do you feel about my recent posting? You changed your mind on my slot after claiming that I was underwhelming, has that changed?

Thoroughly meh. You're not giving major townvibes but also not giving major scumvibes. I'd lynch you but you wouldn't be my preference. So I'd say it's still underwhelming albeit less so than before. I'm not ~feeling it~ as it were for you to be town yet also not strongly feeling you as scum.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

So on a KMD scumflip, mastina is 100% scum.

No.

Is this supposed to convince me otherwise?

In fact?

Yes!

Yes it fucking is.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Ya'll were on the bloody wagon before and Jae looked hella opportunistic going "yeah bleh" with a vote

That wasn't Jae.
That was me.

I said it was mostly a Jae-vote.
What made you think it was actually Jae posting?

Jae doesn't post like me at all. I made it pretty damn unambiguously clear it was me voting for their suspect. Jae I don't think posted D2 at all. Could be wrong about that but they have reasons not to which I have hinted at but never explicitly explained. (It's ~drama~.) They're still in the game and are actually more driving reads than I am, just I'm doing the posting for them. That's not because of our alignment and if you push me on this I WILL fucking explain it and then you WILL wish I hadn't because when I say it's not your fucking business I mean it's not your fucking business and that's what I'm telling you now, Jae's not posting but it's not for alignment reasons.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

It hasn't been obvious and I've forgotten your presence.

Yeah and guess what Ginngie?

That means jackshit.

I get bad games. You fucking KNOW I do you've personally witnessed my bad games and you damn-well KNOW that I don't do this sort of thing EVER intentionally. Never. Ever. EVER. Would I stoop to this low as scum. It's despicable to even think about. Now does that mean that as scum I can't do this? Fuck no, but it means that this happened because of things NOT RELATED TO MY ALIGNMENT, so just drop it.

You're not actually helping figure shit out here.

Tough.
I'm not going to lie and tell you I have something I don't actually have.

I have nothing.
Is that ideal, fuck no. Am I happy, fuck no. But tough shit, it's not changing because that's not something I CAN change. What I give is what I can give and I have given what I can given. It aint gonna improve just because you ask it to. This isn't me being a jerk. I wouldn't be a jerk to a friend. If I could have a friend magically give me energy believe me I would latch onto that and have it. But that's not happening because sometimes it just is.

And if you can't accept that, fine.
Go be wrong about me because it should be clear as day this isn't the approach I'd take as scum and frankly is beyond my scumrange anyway.
I can fake a ton of shit; I can't fake something like this and even if I could why the FUCK would I.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

You're doing me a confuse

I know who Caryatid's main is and so does JaeReed. They're at Don Corelone levels of scumplay. In the scumgame of theirs that I remember they absolutely TROUNCED the town, through-and-through. (I shouldn't say my contribution to the game since that would unfairly narrow down the number of games it could be and as a result severely limit the potential number of people that Caryatid could be so for their anonymity I won't describe further.)

And that town they trounced? Not an idiot-town. It had many, many, MANY power players in it, and these power players weren't playing abysmally. The town was actually functioning as a well and true, proper town if memory serves...and Caryatid managed to utterly fool them all. If memory serves, absolutely NOBODY in that game had anything resembling a real scumread on Caryatid. I'd have to double-check to be sure, but if any such suspicion existed, it was of the paranoia-induced type, the type you quickly toss out because you recognize it's just being paranoid. When I say Don-Corelone level, I fucking mean Don Corelone level because that was no easy feat and yet Caryatid did so almost flawlessly.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

What happened to Spiff and why have you stopped pushing him if literally everything you've said concludes Spiff!scum?

Because JaeReed doesn't believe Spiffeh is scum.
And even if they did, nobody else in the town believes Spiffeh is scum so I wouldn't be able to get a wagon going there. Plus, on top of that all. When literally everyone else (even the people who were the firmest on Spiffeh being scum outside of me!) shit on my read. Well. Let me ask YOU.
If literally everyone in the game told you your scumread on this power player was town.
How would you feel about that read?
I can tell you the answer and so can you. It makes you feel shitty.

And honestly.
I trust JaeReed a lot.
I trust JaeReed more than I trust myself.
JaeReed is a better scumhunter than I am. They may deny it, they may say otherwise, but when RadiantCowbells nominated JaeReed for Paragon of Mafia Hunters, it wasn't for nothing; I agree with that nomination on a fundamental level.
JaeReed and I think similarly a lot. Jae's thoughts mirror my own at many stages...but when they don't. When they diverge. Quite often, of the two, Jae's are closer to reality than mine.

Jae might not be posting but Jae most certainly IS reading. And Jae is giving feedback and I'm putting faith in Jae.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

A hated mason?
seriously?

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Also, camn becomes a policy lynch D3 because that's endgame in LyLo.

No.

What we do instead is treat tomorrow like lylo.

We do not fucking lynch a player on policy when said player is 100% guaranteed to be town.
What that does is give the scum a free nightkill.

Instead we just lynch scum. Like we should.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

I just want you here chill out.

Sometimes it's better for a player to NOT be here.
And this is why.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

camn, Imperium, Prism, NMS, ginngie
Cary, KMD, VNB, Leon, Spiff
So where's the team

I mean.

You kinda know where I stand there more or less.

But my reads aren't really worth much.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

And do you want an explanation for our masonry, Gin? We are modified... which is prob why you are confused.

Can confirm though the details are probably best left undisclosed. It's actually quite the clever modification but you'd never be able to guess.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

but when RadiantCowbells nominated JaeReed for Paragon of Mafia Hunters

wait what?
are you sure he didn't do so in jest?

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Was mostly to get mastina's attention. I'm back out of here now, sorry Ginngie.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

I don't believe the mason claim for a second.

Okay.
Exercise for you then.
Check camn's iso.
Check our iso.
See what we say about each other, consistently, across the whole game.
Also search for "PT" and "topic". See how many results you get there.

We are, 100%, confirmed town to each other. Our mason role is modified, that much is true. But we know each other to be town.

Don't you feel vindicated that you were right about both townreads all along?

Not really? I only feel vindicated after a mislynch when I actually was hard-defending the slot (e.g. Ser Arthur Dayne in DEFCON). Anything less than that and why the fuck would I feel vindicated? I have no right to claim that kind of credit. I didn't hard-defend Aristophanes. I fucking participated in the mislynch of Polar Vortex. What's there to feel proud of?

Contrary to popular opinion of me I am not arrogant enough to claim credit for actions I hold no right to claim credit for. So I can't claim credit for a townread on Polar Vortex and I can't claim credit for resisting the Aristophanes lynch because neither is really actually true and I know it and pretending otherwise would be a lie. (I mean I did put in a little bit of a "I fucking told you so", but not out of vindication, it was more lighthearted and filled with regret in that it was more "I told MYSELF" if that makes sense.)

No. What we do instead is treat tomorrow like lylo.

Why?

Normally, lylo assuming one death/phase would come on D4: seven alive, three groupscum, and with four to lynch, any wrong vote by a town player costs the game.

camn, as Hated, takes one less vote to lynch. If there are seven alive, with camn as one of them, and three are scum...then all three scum voting camn causes a lynch, and thus, a town loss. As a result, instead of D4 being lylo, the day BEFORE D4 should be treated as if lylo. In that if we don't lynch scum, we lose. Lynching camn is NOT an option because you never lynch conftown for any reason.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Fuck.
this.
game.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Fuck.
this.
game.

?

I'm pretty sure India's eaten cucumbers, but what country ate cranberries I can't tell.
However, ultimately.
It doesn't matter.

Heartless? My scumread. Dead N1 to nightkill.
Spiffeh? My scumread. Dead N2 to nightkill.
MaxwellPuckett/Leonshade? My kinda-sorta-scumread. Dead N2 to nightkill.

The players I am fucking suspicious of.
Keep on being the players fucking NIGHTKILLED. Nightkilled, not lynched.
And of course.
Flipping.
town.

So fuck this game.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Don't get discouraged so soon.

Do I have reason to not be?

Nothing has gone right; everything has gone wrong. On just about every level. Wrong on a personal level, wrong on a game level, wrong on a feeling level, contribution level, on. on everything.

If you don't mind.

I'll go sit in a corner fighting the urge to replace out.

Because damn straight I absolutely AM discouraged.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Fuck.
this.
game.

Talk to me. we can still pull this out.

I want to vocalize a lot of stuff and want to use the PT as a sounding board for a while even though it's not doing me much use right now. But I've basically just. Just

lost it

.

You are town.
I think Lebanon and Kuwait are more likely trustworthy than other countries. But I absolutely have zilch confidence in that in spite of me being someone who should have every reason to be confident in that, and even if I could. That doesn't do much now does it?

[NoticeMeSenpai]

I don't know what to do.
The closest I have to a scumread is KMD.

But there's three scum, not one.
And six theoretical slots for scum. Even if I assume what I have assumed I only narrow the pool down slightly.

I don't have direction and I need one but I don't know how to get one because I've just.
In all my hundreds of games.
I don't think I've ever more felt like just.

giving up

.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Kuwait is town on setup spec. This has to be true.
Agree/disagree?

Hazy. 60-40, agree/disagree. At least on my end.
Jae strongly disagrees (VERY strongly disagrees) but I'm not sure how much Jae has read yet.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Sempai: I'm surprised you're doing this here and not in your totally real mason QT. (oh my god you're speaking in anti-eavesdropper code I thought that was a joke worry)

Tempted to out the modification because it'd make total sense if I did. It's very, very, very real. Just. Under-utilized because while I am awesome at using masonries sometimes, other times I am using them for literally nothing. I'm just struggling on a fundamental level to try and...do anything. Do analysis. Do talking. When I say I don't know what to do, I mean I don't know what to do. I don't know what to say. I don't know what to give. And on top of all that. I've got a bit of a Morton's Fork on hand.

If people accept our mason claim as true (they really should), then that means we're conftown. As conftown, there's the pressure to do something. As conftown, there's the pressure to gamesolve. As conftown, there's the pressure that I have to be an active, driving force in the game because anything less than that is giving conftown a bad name and reinforcing the "useless deadweight" stereotype--except it wouldn't be a stereotype if it were the fucking truth, which is the worst part of all.

If people doubt our mason claim as true, if people doubt we are town. Then I have to deal with that shit on top of the need to contribute. I not only have the exasperation of not really having stances, but also on top of that...people

attacking me for not having stances

. (As in, calling me scum because I'm not giving contribution.) I honestly don't know which is worse, and yet neither is good.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

And that I appreciate your input right now more then almost anyone elses.

Have Jae's.
Jae thinks Kuwait is not to be trusted, but has faith in Lebanon and Iran.
They want to know if Iran smelled cherimoyas. They want me to check if Iran went to Iraq looking at them, so that's something I may go for.
Right now I'm juggling responding in here and reading their messages so I'll keep you updated.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

You and me, work on Imperium, that's a slot we love, we do that, it's possibly four left or 2/4 to go. Okay?

I don't think I can get an honest read there.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

You can literally turn anything into three paragraphs can't you?

No.
I can't turn literally anything into exactly three paragraphs.
I can however turn literally anything into

more than

three paragraphs.

And, a bit busy but maybe. To be honest, VCA does work best with a scumflip and we don't have one yet. I can tell you what scum

haven't

done because I've got all these lovely town names to work with, but I can't tell you what scum

did

do because there's just too many unknowns. Effective VCA cannot make premature assumptions of a player's alignment. No matter the townread or the scumread. So I can't tell you what scum did because without scum, I can't pin a pattern down.

I can maybe narrow it down. "Scum were more likely to do this", "scum were less likely to do that". That I can do so I might try for lack of better ideas but I'm not optimistic. Any VCA I did at this point would be biased by my emotions and what little reads I do have (e.g. kinda sorta assuming KMD is scum), so. I just don't know what I can do?

[NoticeMeSenpai]

I'm Flavorless Lubricant, conditional roleblocking protecting visitor.
I choose someone to visit and if they accept, I protect them. If they decline, I roleblock them.

This is alarmingly similar to a split jailkeeper. What does alarm mean? It means red alert: aside from obvious, roles aren't gonna be inherently town or scum no matter what their name is no matter how town/scum they sound and so on and so forth. Usage is of some help (for instance KMD's lack of N1 action is all kinds of ), but mostly we're going to be judging by play.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

You and me, work on Imperium, that's a slot we love, we do that, it's possibly four left or 2/4 to go. Okay?

I don't think I can get an honest read there.

Babe why?

Because I don't think I can read them as anything other than a binary "town" or "scum" with absolutely nothing in-between and with those two judged by absolutely nothing whatsoever. I don't know how to describe it but I don't think I can get a read there which would actually be real.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Why is a missing action suspicious? If I was scum, wouldn't my partners have submitted an action for me?

Well not necessarily but if they did there's a thing called "lying". Shocker! I know! How could any player so much as think to stoop so low as to lie! But sometimes, these players, called the mafia, decide to lie to the honest townies in order to deceive them, thus earning them the moniker of scum.

It could be a lie about the nature of the role (not as likely) or it could be a lie about the action (more likely, as in, it was used you're just pretending it wasn't), or even a lie about missing it (as in, you deliberately chose not to submit the night action for whatever reason). I'm not gonna say town can't miss their actions. They can. I get that, that's why it's not condemning in of itself. It is however hella-sketchy.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Btw Jae heavily suspects Kuwait (yes really), Pakistan (this one is a tough one), and Japan. They're also not happy about Indonesia. No, none of that they can explain.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

camn:

Did Kuwait go to pick blackberries recently?

[NoticeMeSenpai]

*shrug*. What is the benefit for scum-me to lie unless I'd taken some real damning action or something?

You answered your own question there mate.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

I can confirm that KMD visited me tho

Irrelevant; we're discussing N1, not N2.

What damning action can my role as scum even take on N1?

Deliberate no-action. A scumbuddy knowing that with a scum-doc there's a vig. (Which we know there was.) Or even this: say nancy made a game where every scum player has a power role. (That, or the goons are not people they want making the nightkill.) Say also that nancy doesn't allow scum to both kill/action. Well then. SOMEONE'S gotta make the nightkill. And making the nightkill is a rather damning action to take instead of using your role, now, innit?

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Huh ok.
I think Prism is town.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Again to reiterate though I definitely don't think camn is mafia, at a minimum, largely because I think Carya really is a compulsive scum vig maker.

Also kinda agreeing on this with the whole disloyal modifier being a possibility.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

I already claimed to my neighbour. I don't feel inclined to reveal to everyone else at this time. Cary can claim next.

I'm lubricant and I'm an x-shot neighbourising vig-maker.

I targetted camn night 1 and we shot spiffeh. I am not going to claim my night 2 target because I don't want the person with the shot to be roleblocked.

I'm Flavorless Lubricant, conditional roleblocking protecting visitor.

I choose someone to visit and if they accept, I protect them. If they decline, I roleblock them.

N1: I didn't get caught up in time to submit an action
N2: Visited Ginngie

VNB can claim next.

awkwardddddddddddddd

What kind of lubricant? kmd also claimed it.

fuck i meant lingerie.

Prism, what are your thoughts on this?

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Ginngie is way outside her scum range ftr.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Ginngie is way outside her scum range ftr.

are you SURE?

Yes.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

We're nancy's menstrunal cup, an odd-phase (as in, both odd-day and odd-night we have access) mason. Our mason PT is nancy's vagina.
What does odd-phase mason mean?
Well it means that annoyingly enough, camn and us can never chat at the same time because she's even-night. BUT, we are at least still confirmed town to one another.

Basically, we're both town, we know we're both town, but we can't talk to each other in real time. camn gets to see everything we left, then we get to see everything camn left.
Unlike camn (who we could claim the role details of since she did disclose them), we are otherwise vanilla. No extra power, nothing. Our knowledge and our topic are all we have.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

What niche made it perhaps negative utility, NMS?

I don't recall EVER stating that.

You

assumed

I said it was negative utility.
You assumed.
But I never stated that.

What I said was my role is an honorary scum.
And this was a joke (and I TOLD you I was joking at the time!) off of how similar masons are to scum, and also riffing off of how useless conftown often are. As in, "masons are confirmed town but with how lackluster their play often is and them being deadweights to the town dragging play quality down, they may as well be scum". (WELL I MEANT IT AS A JOKE AT THE TIME BUT LOL LOOKS LIKE SELF-FULFILLING PROPHECY.)

[NoticeMeSenpai]

if it's that bad is there a reason you're not just claiming it?

It's not really bad so much as it is something which has a reputation I'm poking fun of.

I'll explain when I claim but right now there's literally only one possible role in existence which would warrant us claiming, so. Unless I see that role claiming neither will I, short of danger necessitating it.

Reputation of masons is that they are honorary scum in that they LOOK like scum for partner interactions and have outside information and so on and so forth in conjunction with often being some of the town's weakest members and thus being players who town want to lynch because them alive helps the scum, more or less.

The role which could justify us claiming was, quite obviously, a PT cop. If there were a PT cop, then masons would be millers to it (or so I thought at the time), but failing that, obviously, masons isn't something you want to claim. Of course, I decided to go refuge-in-audacity by claiming masons in-thread

anyway

, specifically because I knew that by doing so, people wouldn't actually believe we were masons.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

I was disappointed today Sempai didn't care about her at all!

OH MY GOD

JAE.

JAE.

OH MY GOD JAE YOU WERE RIGHT.

We cared! We just talked in code to camn that you couldn't understand! And part of that was that JaeReed has been calling Caryatid as scum, you as town, and that you were softing a guilty on Caryatid!

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Ginn: VT
Imperium: Flavor tracker
NMS+camn: Masons who trade access to PT so only one has it at a time
VNB: Loyal neighborizer (Tries to neighborize, only works if town)
Caryatid: Neighborizing Vig-Maker
Prism: Neighborizing Non-Consecutive-Target Jailkeeper
kmd: Conditional Doctor/Roleblocker (Target accepts kmd's visit, they're protected, otherwise, blocked)

camn's also hated; that's not a fakeclaim.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Imperium/Carya/KMD?

This is also what I came up with.

I pushed in the PT the idea that Caryatid accidentally claimed scumbuddy KMD's flavor, and Jae agreed. Jae thought Caryatid was scum for quite a while, and also caught VNB National Plan's softclaim of having a guilty so it's even further reinforced. Then, there's the POE list to run through.

We are town.
Prism, as a confirmed target for a Loyal Neighborizer, is 100% conftown.
VNB National Plan, as a 100% confirmed Neighborizer (and basically conftown Loyal), is pretty much 100% conftown.
camn is town because she's our mason-buddy.

Then there's you. You're massively outside your scumrange and bleed town.

And if we assume you're town.
The three names left.
Are Imperium/Caryatid/KMD.

I've thought KMD was scum most of the game.
I really think Caryatid is scum too.

The third name is the only name there's much doubt on and even there...I'd buy Imperium scum long before I'd buy you as scum.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

I don't know. obviously someone who didn't truthclaim.

Name names, because there's really nobody it could be.
Imperium could have lied about their role but they were jailkept last night meaning if they had a roleblock, it would fail.
We don't have an action.
Ginngie has claimed no action.
camn couldn't have actioned.
Prism's action is accounted for.
KMD's action is accounted for.
Your own neighborizing vig is accounted for.

So there's no viable way for the action to fail.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Disloyal modifier is my guess here ftr.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Btw we have night-talk so I'm not too worried about a lynch forming before a plan can, but I think this goes without saying.
-We're probably lynching Caryatid.
-KMD is to give the doctor protection to VNB National Plan.
-VNB National Plan targets camn. (NMS is a viable alternative but I think that we get more mileage out of a camn neighborize.) If VNB National Plan's neighborize fails, they were blocked. If VNB National Plan's neighborize succeeds, then we have a conftown link.
-If Prism can both kill and action, Prism vigs KMD while jailkeeping Imperium.

-If Prism cannot both kill and action, it is likely neither can the scum. Prioritize jailkeeping Imperium, and lynch KMD come D4 no matter what.

It's a work in progress, but something like this. I want feedback on how viable this is.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

This is the second time the one-way mason bullshit has happened to me by the way and I hate it.

And you also have it from the same person!

[NoticeMeSenpai]

VOTE: Cary
FUCK IT LETS GO

I have permission to vote there but I want to wait for permission from VNB National Plan and/or camn and/or Prism to do so. (Any one of the three will do, preferably 2 or all 3, butstill, I don't want to go through with it before they're prepared.)

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Shit I actually can't jail Imperium tomorrow, I have to jail someone else.

There's always a flaw.

I suppose if you doubt the mason claim you can jail whichever of camn/NMS that VNB National Plan

isn't

? (You can talk to VNB National Plan in your PT to coordinate.) This would both serve as a protect

and

be further confirmation of us being town. (I mean it wouldn't be absolute confirmation because there'd be two scum alive that night and Jae reminded me that nancy already informed us scum can both kill/action, but what it'd tell you is that we DIDN'T action so we couldn't fuck with results meaning any fuckery would have an outside source, if that makes sense?)

It's the best I can come up with which isn't jailing Imperium.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

-We're probably lynching Caryatid.
-KMD is to give the doctor protection to VNB National Plan.
-VNB National Plan targets camn. (NMS is a viable alternative but I think that we get more mileage out of a camn neighborize.) If VNB National Plan's neighborize fails, they were blocked. If VNB National Plan's neighborize succeeds, then we have a conftown link.
-Prism vigs KMD while jailkeeping

Imperium

the OTHER mason in camn/NMS (whichever VNB National Plan isn't).

This is what I've got right now.

Not as good, but it's the best I've got.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

SCUM CAN FIND WAYS TO DOUBLE KILL? IN A GAME STACKED WITH PROTECTION AND INVESTS?
WHAT A WAY TO BALANCE THAT
WHAT A CONCEPT

Additionally KMD's role is a great mixture of offense/defense in the context of handing a vig to a town player, in that it can be used to stop the town from functioning properly.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

why should i give a gun to the person i've been paranoid of all game?

This is a shit reason when a much better reason would be simpler and you'd know it off of my personality:

Why give a gun to a person who utterly loathes the responsibility associated with it?

That's the answer you should have given because you are QUITE familiar with my hatred of the vig role.

Let me tell you a little secret about mastin.

Though, me calling KMD my mason-buddy was actually me specifically as scum buddying KMD.

You have to understand that I did my standard treatment of neighborhoods in Biochemistry. That being, my standard stance. "Let's treat everyone as conftown in here as if it were a masonry." I do this literally every single time I land a neighbor role, even in games where everyone is in a neighborhood.

Fuck it.
I wanted to wait until I got confirmation but I can't after this.

VOTE: Caryatid.
Not town in any universe whatsoever + we have night talk = I don't care about my vote.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

the way Mastina knew and told Jae (I'm guessing Jae wouldn't have figured it out on their own anyway.)

Actually mastina asked if I needed to know and I said no, and that I already had a fair guess from the drawings anyways.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

lol not a chance, cary.

Ginngie is well outside her scum range for anyone that cares to take a cursory glance. Go ahead, take a dive. I dare you.
And mastina hard towntold with the mason gambit. She wouldn't do that as scum. So....

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Yeah nah. Cary had to go back to a game from 2014. I'd guess there was a massive gain for mastina to make that gambit as scum there. Her stance on gambits as scum is basically there has to be little risk and good reward.

Besides which, I'm pretty sure it's just fucking obvious imperium jumped in to save a buddy here. Cary's shadethrow on me was not town in the slightest and if my read on shadoweh is correct then I believe their soft 100% of the time here for the manner it was done in and the way the polar sorting happened.

Prism, with all due respect, you've seen my scum game and you know it's trash. This isn't it.

mastina gambits frequently as town and I made a whole fucking point of that in kingdom hearts because a gambit there made her town.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Ginngie is just flat town.
I think Cary is disloyal, makes prism and camn conftown on their flip if I'm correct here.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Like if you're paranoid of us shoot imperium and jail us if Cary flips disloyal. There's zero chance nacho gets this read on us here as town, sorry. He's pushing on things that are literally towntells for mastina and a null tell for me. And he knows both of these to be true.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Ginngie is just flat town.
I think Cary is disloyal

Why do you think these two things?

Because Ginngie's scum game is awful for one. We got out of trouncing her in For Us. I correctly townread her off the first page of our neighbourhood in cutsie upick which we just finished. mastina correctly scumread her when she replaced into wwf (I mean everyone was scum there tho so meh). Her town game is very blatant when you see them side by side. This is her town game through and through. She can't fake this as scum.

Cary because I believe the guilty. The role is proven and I think the balance there is that they can't target their partners. It makes sense for the way the role has been used and your reaction this day phase when as scum you wouldn't know yet you needed to bus. Plus your thoughts on Cary aligned too much with my own for me to just shake that off.
Not to mention you'd be conftown through vnb as well on top of all that.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

+ The reason I looked on her mastin2 account first was because I know she had more games on that account, but there's a far more recent example, one that was already mentioned in this game:

For what it's worth: I also really, really like my mason buddy's entrance.
KMD was not arbitrarily placed at the top of my readslist as a reference.
KMD was placed there because KMD EARNED the spot there.
Furthermore. Last game, my reads being identical to KMD's was

not

because we were masons.
It's because we both saw the same things.

In essence: KMD and I have a high level of synergy. I understand

exactly

where KMD is coming from in there. Now, granted. My reads are not identical to KMD's. Obviously I know Mathblade is scum. (And Mathblade was solidly at null when I was in the locker.) The thoughts about Chickadee are spot-on. KMD sharing my thoughts on Pepto for basically a similar basis is also a bonus.

I also can understand the read on gerry. Overall, KMD has given me exactly the same vibes as last game: strong town, with strong reads, well-reasoned, and with reasonably high accuracy. I very much would sheep there.

This is ripped out of context. She wasn't doing a mason gambit here. I actually followed this game so no, you can't get away with that lie. That was her referencing the previous wwe game where they were masons.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Also I want it noted that Imperium knew to push the mason claim. Pretty sure he got that knowledge from Cary in the scum PT.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Like I can't explain that one perfectly but there was something else behind the feeling of his posts there than just "I know mastina gambits".

[NoticeMeSenpai]

That first one says absolutely nothing about what is different between the two here for you.

To be fair, I did ask you "Why do you think this thing?" not "Explain how you got to this conclusion" To be more explicit, what are some differences here between Ginngie scum and Ginngie town?

I'm not sure I can completely understand that last part. I was the person with the most information of the game, by a mile, entering this day phase. No one else was even close.

I can't really explain this sorry. I don't think I'd be able to even if I had the time to try to words it because it's tone and feeling? But more than that? I would love to give you a handy guide but all I can say is look at ginngie's play in for us and wwf and compare to her in girls <3 girls, night and day, and cutsie upick. It feels like a difference people should just be able to pick up to me.

And I was, I told mastina that was my guess when we saw camn had claimed it in the hood. so we were operating off the same information.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Like I can't explain that one perfectly but there was something else behind the feeling of his posts there than just "I know mastina gambits".

Can you link the post?

Both me/VNB spent the whole night phases going "This mason claim is complete bullshit" so I definitely don't scumread that conclusion alone.

It's not the conclusion alone but I can't explain it. I'll find the posts. It's the manner in which he approached it that felt like he had the inside knowledge already.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

I also trust camn enough to cancel out the mason fakeclaim worry. It's MyLo, and lying about someone being confirmed town when they're not when the entire game is on the line is a mistake I don't think JaeReed in particular would make, and camn who is a smart and paranoid girl wouldn't let herself be taken for a ride that long and set up for a Cabd-Penguin moment. It makes sense to fake masons initially to draw a kill as hated but it doesn't make sense here. Doubtful third party lovers claim masons during the night phase as opposed to waiting until now; increases chances of a nightkill for pretty much no reason and is a dumb role I don't think Nancy would have included.

I have other work to do and am generally done with this game - happy to cross a river right after camn confirms that NMS is town one last time. If that's the case, I imagine that you're scum with Cary and VNB and you're not actually holding a vig shot.

Or NMS is scum and camn is just throwing the game, which is not something that I'd like to believe but is something that I'm concerned about right now.

These prism. I can't explain what's so bad about them but it really isn't a town way to approach this and I don't think it's the way town imperium with no knowledge for sure approaches this.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Caryatid,

Mafia Disloyal 2-shot Neighborizing Vigilante Maker (Love Anxiety)

, Lynched Day 3.

Spoiler: Role PM

LESBIAN LESBIAN LESBIAN

You are

LOVE ANXIETY

, the perfect awareness that at any moment everything is about to go nightmarishly wrong in my love life.
Your role in Mini's Apartment:

MAFIA DISLOYAL 2-SHOT NEIGHBORIZING VIGILANTE MAKER

.

• Your partners are Q and T. You may talk with them here at any time during the game.
  
• Twice per game, you may target a player at Night to form a neighborhood with them for the following Day and Night. The target will gain a 1-shot Vigilante ability that may be used until the neighborhood expires. If the target is not aligned with the Town, your action will fail.
  
• You have the power to vote.

Your flavor fakeclaim is: You are

LINGERIE

, my favorite white lace bra and panties that I save for special occasions.

You win when your faction controls at least 50% of voting power or nothing can prevent the same.
Join the fun!

It is now Night 3. Night 3 deadline is in (expired on 2017-09-03 04:51:44).

Told you. Also Cary/kmd flavour claim shenanigans shouldn't be forgotten along with nacho defense not being a town one.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Okay.

time to get serious.

Your turn! I've had to be serious the entire day because scum's last hurrah was to lynch me instead. 100% DANCING.
I woke up halfway through the night for this and I'm jacked up on coffee now I SHOULD BE SLEEPING

Gj btw <3 I had no idea how I'd be able to get a scum cary lynched so that was kinda exactly what was needed to turn this game around.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

TALK ABOUT MEEEEE

Okay!

Prism, I don't have the energy to explain this to you right now but if you ever have one iota of a thought of vigging Ginngie...

for the love of god

don't

.

Quite frankly, we're a better vig than Ginngie is and while it may just be my personal opinion I think that given how the day went and how the Caryatid-NMS interactions were we'd be a pretty shitty vig. Yet I'm telling you, whatever you do, DON'T vig Ginngie because Ginngie is as town as a town player can get this game. She's far more town than I ever could be. I'd rather eat the vig than her.

I mean if you want to shoot me anyway, sure, that's fine we've got a guaranteed win by my math...so long as you don't fuck up by then lynching Ginngie. A fair amount of my time during the night phase is going to be spent towncasing Ginngie, as if there were any need for me to towncase Ginngie, because that is the slot who most needs to not be shot or lynched of the non-conftown players. The amount of praise I have for Ginngie far exceeds that, and I do need to do more explaining, but I don't have the ability to right now.

Vig us, lynch us, but don't vig Ginngie, and don't lynch Ginngie. (Especially not in combination with the vig/lynch us. )

I don't expect you to buy that it's really as easy as Imperium/KMD. (Though I will be attempting some semblance of :scumcasing: them during the night, though I kinda suck at that.) But trust me. If not now then when I flip town. That it really is as easy as Imperium/KMD. (God I wish you could see our PT. But there's no way both you and camn live to see daybreak tomorrow so there's no way that camn can communicate what I mean to you and even if in some bizarro world you did both live you still have to have used your vig tonight before having access to a paraphrase of said topic, so. I gotta do this the old-fashioned way.)

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Real talk though this is near-autowin I think. I get a vig shot off, even if it hits town we've got 2 scum 1 town left, plus a jail and a VNB investigation and potentially an Imperium investigation.

You don't have an imperium invest, he's scum.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

But yeah so long as you don't mislynch ginngie you have this.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

I'm really good at making game winning plans.

So am I, though I can't do it tonight for the same reason I can't towncase you and the same reason I can't scumcase Imperium and KMD.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Oh mastina is covering it. I can go back to feeling sick and wanting to be anywhere but this party

Pedit legit zero chance we were ever aligned with cary but you do you, prism.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Just treat ginngie as conftown with our flip.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

And I mean that. Vnb doesn't get a hood then lynch kmd for being a flat roleblocker instead.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

VNB is a conf investigative role. He should be the one who dies tonight.

VNB's action is confirmed, but alignment is not. (Neighborizer is confirmed, Loyal Neighborizer is not.) So VNB could be scum with whoever VNB targets. As a result, VNB could live.

Do I think that's actually even so much as a remote possibility?

Fuck

no we just lynched Caryatid essentially entirely because of VNB National Plan's claim of Loyal Neighborizer and failing to neighborize scum. But from a strictly speaking technical point of view VNB National Plan isn't absolutely conftown and who they neighborize wouldn't be absolutely conftown either. Desperate scum could try to kill one of you/Prism and hope to frame VNB as a busser pulling a massive gambit, and that VNB/their new target is the scumteam.

I mean it's pretty damn unambiguously clear that wouldn't work in practice.
But it could work in theory, and who knows what the scum will do. (Scum think what scum think. For all we know scum could think Ginngie is an optimal nightkill out of some contrived, convoluted justification. Does that mean it would be good play, no, it would be handing the town a win they were already on their way to having. But it shows what I mean.)

It honestly doesn't matter though. VNB National Plan lives, they either have an innocent or a guilty. VNB National Plan dies, then we get conftown alive in lylo guaranteed. (Two in 5p, one in 3p.) The game's locked as a town win either way, just a matter of how much of a town win it is. I'm not wordsing well, might try to explain this later if it's important.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

I'm telling you kmd might have lied and might just be a flat roleblocker if you allow the visit.
I would believe ginngie town and kmd roleblocker if vnb cops ginngie into a no hood. That is how town ginngie is. There is literally no way she is ever scum in this game.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

I can shoot you and have VNB cop Ginngie though I guess.

I mean. Obviously. My

preference

would be to not take the hit. To vig scum, neighborize town, and then bam. We have one scum left and a bundleload of ways to fuck them over, be it the lynch or failing that the jailkeep.

But I am indeed willing, able, and ready to put my life on the line for the sake of a game-winning plan.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Oh mastina is covering it.

Don't rely on me I am notoriously unreliable.

But yes I will indeed try. <3

[NoticeMeSenpai]

If you dare shoot mastina I'm gonna be mad as fuck.

This, but with Ginngie only moreso.

Ginngie is never a good vig shot here. She's an even worse lynch.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

It's literal mechanical autowin if Ginngie is town.

Ginngie is town!
Like I said.
You can distrust me all you like with me alive but if/when we flip town trust me on that.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

I'm telling you kmd might have lied and might just be a flat roleblocker if you allow the visit.
I would believe ginngie town and kmd roleblocker if vnb cops ginngie into a no hood. That is how town ginngie is. There is literally no way she is ever scum in this game.

This is why you do check KMD, KMD blocking the cop shot confirms themselves as scum, not blocking confirms them as scum.

Checking any other player allows fuckery.


@mastina, however the visit, no visit statement is in fact true, so I don't doubt the role claim either.

Yeah I like your plan best

[NoticeMeSenpai]

VND cops KMD
KMD protects VND
Prism shoots Imperium

If VND dies, KMD scum.
If VND lives, we see KMD be scum by cop.
If VND lives, KMD town, and Imperium dead, mastina and I are last scum.
Imperium flips scum, if not it's a 1v1 between mastina and I.

Adding to this: Prism jailkeeps either us or Ginngie to further ensure a lack of fuckery. (I'd prefer Ginngie since I absolutely think Ginngie is deserving of the pseudo-conftowness.) With us or Ginngie jailed, we/Ginngie can't roleblock and throw things off. Any roleblock would have to originate from KMD/Imperium/whichever wasn't jailkept. With Imperium vigged, we can see that it either was them, or wasn't them. Presumably not them, and thus, a failed result can only come from either KMD or the player who wasn't jailed.

Does that make sense?

[NoticeMeSenpai]

VND cops KMD
KMD protects VND
Prism shoots Imperium

If VND dies, KMD scum.
If VND lives, we see KMD be scum by cop.
If VND lives, KMD town, and Imperium dead, mastina and I are last scum.
Imperium flips scum, if not it's a 1v1 between mastina and I.

Adding to this: Prism jailkeeps either us or Ginngie to further ensure a lack of fuckery. (I'd prefer Ginngie since I absolutely think Ginngie is deserving of the pseudo-conftowness.) With us or Ginngie jailed, we/Ginngie can't roleblock and throw things off. Any roleblock would have to originate from KMD/Imperium/whichever wasn't jailkept. With Imperium vigged, we can see that it either was them, or wasn't them. Presumably not them, and thus, a failed result can only come from either KMD or the player who wasn't jailed.

Does that make sense?

Pagetopping for importance.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

To be honest I think the 2702 plan outright wins the game come D4, but. I think that we can plan even further and ensure a worst-case-what-if-scenario, where we need a D5.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

(oh yeah that has undertale spoilers if there are people left on this planet who haven't played it and don't know the story)

mastina hasn't I think but I'll fix that soon.