Mini 1930: Titus's Old Music Playlist Mafia

[Penn and Teller]

Hi hi! Not too late to the party, I hope?

I don't have a read on maria yet

I don't think an early wagon on her is going to reveal anything

It's pressure at least, is it not?

I don't think this pressure will lead to anything, especially with people saying pressure. I don't want any risk of MariaR being derp hammered.
I am confident that I will be able to read her as the day goes on and I feel like her dying day 1 will negatively impact my enjoyment of this game.

I get that pressure votes are pretty weak when you announce that they're for pressure, but you originally said it was just "an early wagon" that wouldn't reveal anything. MBC is right - she was really nowhere near anything like a derphammer, at 3 votes. Your concern feels a wee bit unnatural, too much for the circumstances.

Good news guys, you don't have to worry about me this game

this is scum

Sup

VOTE: zach

this is also scum

Look at that reasoning
That analysis
It's breathtaking
Seriously though, would you mind explaining?

dunn's vote is bad because he voted for someone scummy and then voted for me when i havent posted anything ai

dunn expects to be able to read me easily and when he voted me i didnt post anything alignment indicative which is usually off so obviously he'd want to look into that

How do you know when you've posted something AI or not? Everything you say is filtered through your alignment, I don't know that it's so simple that you either have or haven't.


-Keychain

[Penn and Teller]

That's a lot of words to say you can't be stopped from dying if targeted with a kill

this^^

Will post real stuff later. I have some things I wanna address.

-ntrp

[Penn and Teller]

You already said that. Why does somebody voting cause you to actually vote now? You could have voted me earlier

idk i guess i forgot to vote earlier

how do you forget to vote?

seriously. how?

also dunkey ur gonna need to explain these votes a bit more. Im not sure if ur trying to do a reversal of jungle republic and go off ur gutreads instead of sheeping as sheeping went really bad for you.

-ntrp

[Penn and Teller]

did I do it right?

IDK how these tags work

if not here is a link

Spoiler:

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=ht ... mrc&uact=8

[Penn and Teller]

If anoyone was wondering that was a meme that Drixx's [post] 164 [/pos] brought to mind

-ntrp

[Penn and Teller]

It's an exaggeration of a difference in posting styles. I can get painfully wordy at times.

Also high five my newbie friend, I'm in the same boat. But at the same time - I'm of the opinion that's it's generally protown to share information, but not if it's going to make things worse for town by sharing it, so maybe do that mental check first.

If site meta has people claiming negative utility roles up front, it makes sense for Drixx to do it, so your conclusion that it's a fakeclaim doesn't hold.
And even if it were a fakeclaim, I disagree that scum are the only ones who ever fakeclaim. Lynch all liars is a separate thing, I think.
Do you still think he's scum?

By voting him, you are skipping all of this and doing it D1 before scum even get a chance to Wine us into lynching him.

You are predrinking instead of getting drunk when served!

(bolding mine)
This is my favourite metaphor now. Especially with the additional "wine and dine" imagery. I'm still laughing


-Key

[Penn and Teller]

Penn and Teller, who you willing to lynch, and who not?

It's tough keeping track of so many players but I can pin down the ones at either end for you. I'd also keep an eye on the multiposting -

a serial killer that gets additional abilities if town or scum spam or lurk.

I don't know what that means exactly, but I'd rather not find out.


I'm pretty okay with a Famethyst lynch. Famethyst's focus on how their posts haven't been AI is odd, and particularly the frustration for being voted for it by Dunn would make more sense coming from scum than town. Scum don't want people to point out their scummy posts. But they

really

don't want people voting them on the basis of posts they don't consider scummy at all. It doesn't seem like town would make that distinction as strongly.

I'd rather not lynch MBC - he went pretty serious pretty fast, but post 33 and post 50 feel like good town posts to me so far. I also think that Dunkerdoodles is just playing too scummy to be scum, if that makes sense - if he was actually scum it seems like he'd tone it down a wee bit. I'll keep an eye out but so far, he's actually one of my favorites for town.

If Drixx wanted to fake claim, he could have just said Ascetic and then claimed to have mis understood his role and given this explanation after.

Really? From this game alone, it seems like it would be severely out of character for Drixx to pretend to misunderstand his role. And I'm not sure why you would say it makes no sense for scum to do it, then to say it doesn't make him any more town in your books.

his (using the English gender neutral pronoun which is the same as the masculine pronoun)

gender neutral pronoun is "their"

Pretty sure "his" is masuline only

We should totally have this discussion after the game. I actually had like 3 paragraphs here and then I realized how hilariously useless to the game that would be.

Can I attend? I can cite my sources! My linguistics degree might finally be useful!


-Key (tbh I have no idea why I'm signing my posts, you can probably tell me and NTRP apart just fine)

[Penn and Teller]

I dont like Drixx's interactions with Dunkers because it feels a lot like buddying to me. And I feel like drixx is trying ti take advantage of the bit of friendliness you tend to develop with ur IC in first game and picket dunkers early on.

-ntrp

[Penn and Teller]

Drixx I was basing fondness on my own personal experience in the newbie queu. Despite you being scum I tend to look on anybody who was involved in a game with me especially the newbie queue with a certain fondness. I still standby that your interactions with DD seemed like buddying.

[Penn and Teller]

Me with this game atm

I feel like this is me every game

-ntrp

[Penn and Teller]

@Mod: Mint Berry Crunch has been listed as Mint Berry Church in both vote counts.

Going to be totally honest, both heads are getting quite lost. This whole game looks like a chaotic mess to me. NTRP is also having trouble.

Overwhelm leads to lurking, so I'm probably going to be asking lots of questions just to try and keep up. But I'll do my best even if most of the jokes go straight over my head.

@Aristophanes: You are chirpy and it makes me smile, but in a skim through your ISO all you've said regarding other players is who you think is town and that you would not oppose lynching Dunker. Why (would you not oppose it at all)? And do you have anyone that you would actively like lynched, rather than just accepting it?

[Penn and Teller]

I'm getting newbie vibes radiated off there for some reason.

Also high five my newbie friend, I'm in the same boat.

It was... subtly stated, but yeah, I don't have too much experience. Like at all. A couple of completed games. NTRP has a few more.

They don't seem like new players to me though

What gives you that impression?


-Key

[Penn and Teller]

New players have a certain aura about them and way they act and you don't have it

Um... thanks.


@Fame: I like your points on Ari and Dunker. Was that a strong townread on Drixx? Can you expand on that?

[Penn and Teller]

I'll read up and be relevant at some point tomorrow. Sorry guys!

me too. got addicted to some new videogames and its keeping me from just about wverything else i need to do.

-ntrp

[Penn and Teller]

I'm glad some people can read Dunn

I cannot work him out.


-Key

[Penn and Teller]

@Famethyst why r we so high on your readlist? and why is dunkers so low? Our contributions have been relatively similar, that is, barely anything.

[Penn and Teller]

And they're reading me as town. Why are you voting me?

That's a really good question - as far as I can tell, we're not.

@Titus: Penn and Teller are not voting Dunnstral - this affects VC 1.3 and 1.4

[Penn and Teller]

I'll be here to speed it up tonight. We'll get a Last Night Tomorrow post.

You're way overdue on promises - this had better happen sharpish.
Also I still have no idea what a "Last Night Tomorrow" post is.

Where in the heck did BFI go? Been over four days since last post and I didn't see any V/LA notice or anything.

[Penn and Teller]

wow boon actually did something.

pnly surprised by the read on us. Didnt think I did enough to justify a strong townread. What pists specifically did you like?

I also have a tendency to assume people's reasons for SRing me are legit while TRs are semi pocketing unless Ive been obvtowning it up (which happens very very very rarely).

-ntrp

[Penn and Teller]

wow boon actually did something.

only surprised by the read on us. Didnt think I did enough to justify a strong townread. What posts specifically did you like?

I also have a tendency to assume people's reasons for SRing me are legit while TRs are semi pocketing unless Ive been obvtowning it up (which happens very very very rarely).

-ntrp

@boon

[Penn and Teller]

P&T is scum 100%. wagon this
VOTE: Penn & Teller

Why?

idk gutread, but i'm strangely very confident in this one.
also their iso just feels scummy. paul isn't playing like normal town paul imo

so are we just gonna let dunkers say stuff like this and not do anything?

@dunkers any posts specifically ping u?

@famethyst: im assuming it was giga, but what do u need from me? i saw u mentioned me when i skimmed last few pages. tbh ive been really disconnected from this game. ive been reading along but its kinda been a blur, and my mind kinda fogs up when i go back to think about it.

[Penn and Teller]

not exactly??

bad posts tend to come from scum since bad means likely scum motivated

obviously it's not bulletproof but i dont get why you would insinuate that it's a black-and-white situation

whats so bad about famethyst's post here? please explain for a newb. all I see is some maybe crappy game theory. like it seems NAI..

-ntrp

[Penn and Teller]

In a few hours, when I have time, I think I'm going to do a quick vote count (in a way that is definitely not imitating the mod) because not knowing where the wagons are is messing with my head.

-Key

[Penn and Teller]

Okay. This is where the votes currently stand, as far as I can tell - there's a couple of differences from the official mod one in that Dunn is no longer doublevoting, BFI's vote is on us not Dunn, and Maria's vote is on Boon. Plus Dunkers just changed his vote since the VC. Anyone see anything wrong? They're not in order of who voted first or anything.

ButFearItself (5): Dunkerdoodles, Drixx, Famethyst, Robbvna, Wake88 (L-2)
Boonskiies (3): Aristophanes, MariaR, Mint Berry Crunch
Mint Berry Crunch (1): Dunnstral
Famethyst (1): Boonskiies
Dunkerdoodles (1): Zachstralkita
Penn and Teller (1): ButFearItself

[Penn and Teller]

also paul i forgot to get back to you

what have you guys been talking about in the pt, if at all?

Do you want NTRP in particular to answer this, since you directly addressed him? You did say you wanted more from the other head.

Also:

vedith

In regards to names. I don't know what the general site opinion is, or even MBC himself, but from my perspective - if he's posting under the name Mint Berry Crunch

and not Vedith

, it only seems polite to assume that's how he wants to be called. You appear to be going out of your way to not do that.

The only logical conclusion at this point is that someone has a power to alter votes.

Uh, no. This is a completely bizarre conclusion to come to considering the range of errors - and also the fact that at least two errors were corrected by the mod when I called them out in thread.
Like what are you even playing at? This seems completely out of left field. Dunn is not the only one to point out that the VCs have been wrong.
(Is secret vote modifying a thing that happens? I assume so, otherwise you wouldn't suggest it, but... jeez. That's actually a scary thought.)

[Penn and Teller]

To you, this is townie play?

I know it's terrible on my part but I'm not going near Dunnstral with a ten foot pole. I can't understand him at all, I can't read him, but the people who can say he's town so for now I'm not going to try and push in that direction.
I'd also argue that BFI's "catch up" post was just as useless, if not more so, and also made a point of the VC errors - but I don't remember you making a fuss over that.

Spoiler: BFI's post

Just a literal 10 second skim thru of each page shows literally nonsense talk, apologies for absence, promises for reads, and literally I don't think any mod VC has been correct so far this whole game (I haven't been voting Dunn for a long time and I'm pretty sure other votes are wrong too).

And a wagon on me somehow when Robb is the only person I recall giving a decent reason. Scum hiding on the wagon seems obvious to me so it should be easy to find them on my wagon even if I do end up being the D1 lynch.

This is just awful quality gameplay. I have been caught up at work, but I'll spend a few hours on this tonight anyway I guess. Can't wait.

Do you consider that to be a more helpful response than Dunn's? I mean, at least Dunn was pointing out that it wasn't L-1, which was more useful than "everything is terrible graaargh" which is kind of what I took away from BFI's post. Or were you not comparing the two?

and you can answer it if you'd like i guess but i would prefer it to see it in pauls words (waiting for paul gives you guys a chance to bs a narrative if you're scum)

maybe focus on what paul has added to the pt, if anything?

Hmm. There are pros and cons to both options. I'll let him answer, if that's all right. I'd rather leave him something to actually get him into the game instead of trying to field everything myself. That way you can get it in his words and he has a reason to be engaged.

[Penn and Teller]

@fame I'll get back to u this evening. I have ACT prep to do so im busy for next few hours.

Im not a fan of the situation u set up here, where u want me to answer but if I take too long its cuz I BSed stuff. Like it feels like it was a lose-lose situation because ur gonna SR me no matter what since I posted second because I "BSed stuff in pt", when in reality its because I hadnt checked the game. Im not sure if that was ur intention but it sure seems that way.

Back to ACT practice test! Yay? *cries*

[Penn and Teller]

@Fame the pt in all honestly has been a lot of me apologizing to key for not engaging. Recently, thanks in part to u, Ive kinda tried to engage.

Anywaaaaay. Key and I are kinda split on you and Boon. I wanna vote Boon, Key wants to vote you. I kinda town lean on you, but its not super because without you signing your posts, I have a hard time telling when giga talks. My plan was to kinda base my read on higa as i have the mist experience with them. As far as Boon, I didnt like his read of us, because as you pointed out I think, it was very much based on posts from Key that you had already pointed out. That and, having us so high seemed really off considering my play this game. Plus my general suspicion of people who TR me, means I wanted to vote Boon, but Key does not share said opinion.

Now u know Im really sheepy, and rn Im tempted to sheep wake cuz Im like 90% pkus sure he is town. My townreads have gotten better, so Im pretty confident in this one as I really liked his long set of posts where he was questioning everyone. I think it was his first pists in the thread that were serious (not sure if he was even here for RVS actually), but I REALLY liked them because he seemed to put genuine effort in that i dont see scum putting in. That said. I uh dont really know why people are voting BFI because Ive mostly been skimming the game and cant remember much about what I skimmed.

Thats the most recent PT stuff. Oh and we collectively agreed to treat dunn with caution (aka the 10 ft pole Key was talking about).

If you could explain the BFI case to me, it would be great. Heck, if anyone could, Id appreciate it.

[Penn and Teller]

He's not playing the game

He's not the only one, and I mean he's probably one of the better ones after the big post and some of the followup.

There's like a whole lurker crew. It's not great.


-Key

[Penn and Teller]

Until I see an accurate vc

I did try to get it sorted out in post 614, but maybe PM the mod if you'd like an official one?

[Penn and Teller]

@robb did u already lay out ur reasons for BFI? If so I'll just ISO u and find em.

@fame: random q: giga why do u think im obvtown everytime u play with me lol?

[Penn and Teller]

i feel like a dumbass let me sit this out for a few hours >_>

So stop acting like one and if you are town act like that. this whatever you are doing is stupid and distracting.

?

I literally stopped posting anything relevant to my screw up after that. what are you talking about

all that matters right now is that i have to claim tomorrow. i'm still off the table today.

and paul i'm kind of starting to understand how you emote as a player - your last few posts were super 3d and genuine and i dont know how good you are as scum

my scum game is much better than my town game.

thats all i have to say on the matter

[Penn and Teller]

@robb I'll check it out in a bit. im volunteering atm so next time I take a break, I'll find it

[Penn and Teller]

whats the nat geo kool aid? some sorta inside joke?

my townplay is not good. im most helpful when i find a good own player to sheep and just follow them lol.

okay thats a slight exaggeration but my town play really isnt that good

-nrrp

[Penn and Teller]

dunn me drixx zach maria P&T

Hmm

oh ya i forgot to comment on that

not a fan of townblocs. unless ur role can conftown ppl i dont think u should be making townblocs esp D1

Ive seen em go really badly

[Penn and Teller]

which part? and why?

[Penn and Teller]

so like half his list u dont agree with lol

@fame does robb's reads trouble u?

[Penn and Teller]

ebqop all the list actually. except me and fame

doss that mean u tr us?

[Penn and Teller]

@Fame are u gonna put together a comprehensive BFI case? Or do I just need to ISO u, rob, and BFI.

by comprehensive case I mean with quotes and shit

[Penn and Teller]

@fame is there a reason ur not twlling us who visited who?

[Penn and Teller]

oohhhhh

lol. so u just know who got visited pretty much

[Penn and Teller]

im tryna figure out how much that helps town. like im struggling to find uses for it.

i guess it can tell u more about the nk if maf and sk target same person

*shrug*

VOTE: dunkers give us content buddy

@robb i'll bet u $10 we do

[Penn and Teller]

Ok so we have a global watcher which I assume just watched everyone for 1 night. I guess now we know how many visiting roles are in the game.

thanks for pointing out the obvious.

any analysis to share?

[Penn and Teller]

I'm so confused at what is going on. Need to hear back from MBC on whether his night action was a visit or not.

To be honest I'm not exactly an authority on this kind of thing, but I can't really see Fame's role being scum. Sharing the information in particular seems not very scummy. So putting Fame as a townread here.
That said though
@Famethyst: wait, I'm not following. So you changed your watch list to say that MBC visited Ari instead of a scum protective but you weren't sure about whether MBC visited Boon - is that because you don't believe MBC or because it's not clear whether his action counted as a visit or not?
Why would you think that a scum protective would protect Ari?

I'm thinking about ARISTOPHANES and dunkerdoodles at the moment

I'm on board with this right now, though I don't know about them together. I'm happy with our vote atm (I think it's on Dunkers?).

wait that's vedith?

VOTE: MBC

getting flashbacks to our first scum game already

Something about his kind-of-not-really-a-claim? Or something else?

I mean that I did not actively make acy action, but that I git a PM that I vosoted Boon. It was co firmed bo be neither an alignment indicative or killing visit.

That isnall I know

How are youbawarenof this?

Hun, you're writing like you've got your eyes closed


Also this National Geographic thing is driving me up the flipping wall.

[Penn and Teller]

What a comedy of errors. Fun times all around. So neither MBC nor Ari actually visited Boonskiies last night.

[Penn and Teller]

My reason for those 2 is because I wanted to see what type of power Ari gave Boonskiies to see if they were Scum together.

I think I might have missed something here though?

[Penn and Teller]

i second that

dunkers do more thank u

@fame when did we end up in ur scumpile?

why are we discussing night actions so much as well? it seems counterproductive and confusing. like all its gonna do is out town PRs as we try to make sense of it right? or am I missing something here?

[Penn and Teller]

What did you miss?

ok vedith i don't understand your role and since you've basically fully softed from what i understand do you think it'd hurt to fullclaim?

I thought it was claimed.
I choose a player to target another player (both my choice) and they give them a normal role that isn't killing and not alignment indicated.
I can be the person receiving an item but not the one sending it.
I can also use my power plus any additional powers, and same for everyone else.

This. Thank you. You said something about Ari giving powers like it made perfect sense, and I thought I had missed an explanation somewhere.

dunks feels like a serial killer to me

Can you explain this please? I have no clue what a serial killer might feel like and it would be good to have some sort of reasoning to work with.

for the claims so far if i'm correct:
drixx is like mega-macho
fame is 1 shot modified global watcher
robb is forced visitor to one of the killed targets
am i correct on these claims and have i missed any?

You missed MBC's claim.


But yes. NTRP's right. I don't know that fussing over the night actions is getting us any closer to lynching scum right now, though maybe it could come in handy later.

[Penn and Teller]

How many is it to lynch?

Just popping in with a quick unofficial VC because Dunkerdoodles is at 4 votes as far as I can tell. Is that L-2?

Dunkerdoodles - Robb, P&T, Zach, Fame
Aristophanes - Maria

[Penn and Teller]

how do we make ari give contnent? he has been promising fir a few days. I would vote but someone said town!ari goves content without being pushed (i think).

im kinda tired of waiting tbh.

shame. i find dunkers reads can actually be accurate sometimes. he just never has the power to push then through.

-ntrp

[Penn and Teller]

Dunker can u explain ur robb read more?

[Penn and Teller]

i am trying to find scum. i have scumreads, it's just no one else scumreads you, not a lot of people scumread P&T

Okay what?

Like

Robb and Zach are already on this but I just want to point out that friend, your scumreads make no sense. You have scumread Robb for increasingly contrived reasons since your very first post. You were 100% and strangely confident on us being scum for a short period of time before abandoning that in your reads list earlier for no apparent reason though just now it seems like you still are and just aren't pushing it because... ???

And the only reason I can find that you might be suddenly scumreading Aristophanes is that he is the current alternative wagon to you, and the only reason you actually provided was his RVS opening comments.
Can you expand on that read at all? You said his ISO looked scummy - what about it?


Also Dunkers

i would just go along with what the majority want which is me i guess.
there's no real reason for me to be in this game anymore, so may aswell just hammer me now.

if this is legit apathy and not AtE - don't give up. Fight! Play the game! Don't just lay down and die!

thats basically what im talking about @P&T - Serial Killers play like town walking on eggshells and thats how dunks feels like hes going about the game

I kind of see what you mean, thanks for the explanation.

[Penn and Teller]

@mod NTRP head will be VLA until August 12

[Penn and Teller]

Is that a "don't go" face?
It's okay, he'll be back, you don't have to be sad.

I can't say that for half the players in this game though, could have sworn Drixx was in this? And Mint Berry Crunch?

Like is there anything I can do to help people want to play this game? I don't know what to do.

I swear to god I will pick fights with every single one of you if you think it will help pull the game out of this slump. The lurking

burns

.

[Penn and Teller]

@Drixx: Is that why you've not said anything for two days?

Idioms and words and children's nursery rhymes come from all sorts of places. Some of them are horrible.

"Drinking the kool-aid" is indeed usually used to refer to just following along or buying into something without question, and while it is still used to refer to cults it is no longer so narrowly defined, and is frequently used in less sinister contexts. Like here.

The question posed to you, and the thing that seems to have bothered you, was

you know what the national geographic kool aid is right?

In no way, shape or form can I see you being "compared to a cult leader and murderer" in that question. I understand that you might have, or I might have misunderstood what offended you, but I'd suggest maybe we should move on from it because I don't think there was any ill intention.

[Penn and Teller]

how do we make ari give contnent?

wow zzzz


I'll be honest what we need in here is drunk Aristophanes

<3

I'll work on that tonight

Aha. The answer is alcohol.

(but seriously
The level of content from Ari has been not great and makes him hard to read
Please
Please Aristophanes)

[Penn and Teller]

you know what else is the answer? Rope around aris neck

@Maria:

ari is likely scum but

A: he's more likely to give content without pressure if town

Do you disagree with this?


@Drixx:

As far as Aristophanes goes, does anyone have any reason to suggest the rope apart from inactivity? Please do offer it up if so. I have a reason for asking.

No. I can't figure anything out with nothing to work with.


@Robb:

Ari is at least a decent player so we can pressure him to provide content day 2 if need be.

This

is

day 2 - and so far attempts to pressure content have gotten more out of Dunkerdoodles than Ari, so what makes you say this?


@Dunk:

anyways it's probably in our best interest just to lynch me today and maybe activity will pick up after a new day.

Mate, don't even. You just ignored every question posed to you to say this instead? Answer them, please. If you need me to go through and quote them for you, I can do that.

[Penn and Teller]

Okay! Now we're getting somewhere. I also asked about your reads on us and on Ari, could you explain those more?

apparently you always play like this so idk if it's just how you play or if it's actually scummy.

Right. So. I think I figured out where you're getting this from - Wake said not to push Robb based on playstyle early on, didn't he?

whenever i push my scumreads i either get pushed massively for them or they're just wrong. i have scumread and i want to push them, it's just that there's no one for me to push with.

You don't need everyone else to think someone is scum for them to be scum. If you think they are, your job is to make everyone else realise it. People need to be convinced before they'll decide you're right. So convince them.

And to be worried about being pushed for your reads is not a townie mentality, though while NTRP is gone I can't verify whether it's NAI for you. If you're a townie your job is to lynch scum, so do it! If people scumread you for that, figure out if they're misguided town or malicious scum and act accordingly.

I scum read you because whenever someone scumread you you just ignored it and even blatantly said so. i find this is a common scum tactic where like 1 person will announce a scumread on someone and the person will just respond with like "ur so dumb i can't believe you scumread me" or like "im obv town stop scumreading me" or something like that.

your claim is just so.. weird. like, a compulsive visitor to a dead person is just a weird role imo. ik if it's real it's to mess with trackers/watchers etc but idk it seems weird. it kinda makes sense i guess? if we were to know the other roles im sure it would make more sense.

I actually find someone ignoring scumreads on themselves to be townie. Town knows that a scumread on them is wrong and not worth addressing. Why do you think it's a common scum tactic and not a town trait?

Gravedigger is a thing. If you check the wiki it's mentioned in a number of places, though it doesn't seem to have a page itself. There's a number of roles designed to cause confusion like that, and it seems plausible given Fame's claim. What do you think of MBC's claim, then? I find that one much weirder.


I can handhold you if it means you'll contribute. I'm confused too. But I think you're probably scum who is leaning hard on that confusion to explain why you have no reads that make any sense.

[Penn and Teller]

You mentioned them, yes, but they didn't make a lot of sense, which is why I'm asking for more details.

Here is the relevant part of your readslist:

Ari: Some early interaction with boon, ik it's RVS and it shouldn't matter but i thought i'd mention it.

Spoiler: (posts spoilered for length by Key)

Oh shit, I forgot this started!

RVS is still going, right?

VOTE: Boonskies

Girls <3 Girls you duped me! I will not let it happen again!

bad posts tend to come from scum since bad means likely scum motivated

I'm probably the most black and white type player here and even I don't agree with this statement. Townies can make bad posts.

Honestly, I think town players make bad posts more often than scum.

@Aristo - Now it's your turn to dupe me, right?

I'll do my best

I wonder when Boon is gonna come out and actually play!

His silence saddens me.

these posts above do feel like distancing.
also was very involved when i scumread drixx for his claim, this could either be legit however the whole thing kinda feel like a grab at towncred.
for reference:
138 148 151 153 156 158 160
also looking back, drixx is a better player later on in games so if scum leave him alive as wine it could harm scum as drixx is a good town player and could help us catch scum later on.

the rest of ari's ISO feels scummy too.

i think this is scum, however not too sure.
...
P&T: after looking at ISO i retract my gutread on them i was probably getting too hasty and trying to fine things to scumread without really thinking about it.

I saw the read on Ari and I think it's sketchy. It came out of nowhere, when he is currently the other wagon. I want you to elaborate on the bolded because what you've got just feels like you pushing his lynch solely because it's not yours.

The read on us has jumped all over, and for it to be gone now when you initially said you were "strangely confident" seems incredibly inconsistent. So you're townreading me and can't decide on NTRP? That goes a little way towards the explanation I'm trying to get out of you. What in particular makes you feel that way?

also on the bolded, i agree with this however i feel scum could also easily coast this point to victory. like, if you were scum and you ignored every scumread against you and you got townread for that it would be a pretty easy win would it not? i also feel like scum!robb is sweeping this game if i didn't scumread him since everyone else townread's him i think.

This is a good point, but you contradict yourself. So you think he's overdoing a towntell a bit, and that's why he's scummy? Or you think it's easy enough to imitate that it becomes a nulltell since it's just as likely to come from either alignment?
If you think Robb is scum and you're the only one who has noticed, then

convince us

. Prove it! Give me evidence. Explain why he's scum. NTRP has said that you've been accurate before.

[Penn and Teller]

We haven't gotten content from dunker yet though so not sure why you think we have.

People can pressure ari also but I'm locked on scum, no need to change now.

Going back to tunnelling eh?

Comparatively speaking, we really have got more from Dunkers - there was a reads list, for one, and I can work with that as a starting point even if it wasn't great. It's still

something

, and this game is sorely lacking in somethings.

Dude you aren't a that much of a n00b.

I need to save reading your posts for later. I love some good fiction

We clearly have very different approaches.

[Penn and Teller]

I don't know what hapened last night, but I believe I was a forced Boonskies visitor.

I dont know why. I have not used any action

I mean that I did not actively make acy action, but that I git a PM that I vosoted Boon. It was co firmed bo be neither an alignment indicative or killing visit.

That isnall I know

How are youbawarenof this?

Iunno, I was told I could pick any whitelisted action and use it on him - nonkilling and non-alignment-confirming iirc

?
First time you said it it sounded like it was just a visit, so why did you skip out on mentioning the fact that you could use an action on him and that's what was nonkilling and non-alignment confirming?

I disagree I've seen scum Ari and this is just like him

Can you explain how he's playing similarly?


@Dunkerdoodles: don't fade away please! I still want to hear more about your reads.

[Penn and Teller]

Also

going to enjoy my v/la weekend and reassess if I should even be playing mafia anymore since everyone thinks I am such a shitty player.

Like... enjoy your weekend... but there was really no need for this.

*headdesk* -- So much AtE.

[Penn and Teller]

Ah, I see. I'm sorry to hear that - hopefully your weekend off will rejuvenate you!

[Penn and Teller]

I disagree I've seen scum Ari and this is just like him

Can you explain how he's playing similarly?

Like based on inactivity or what?

[Penn and Teller]

Oh hello! Are you caught up?

That isnall I know

This is the bit that I question. It sounded like you were going for full disclosure at that point, but you held something back. It makes sense that you wouldn't necessarily say everything without being up to date, sure, but adding this is weird.

Moving away from night action speculation for the moment - do you have an opinion on players and scum and things like that?

[Penn and Teller]

I have opinions growing and some fairly strong townreads atm.

Can I ask what they are? Anything would be useful as a starting point.

Why townreads and not scumreads?

[Penn and Teller]

im back. its the weekend!!!

ari tell me who scum is

[Penn and Teller]

yes that would clear things up

VOTE: ari

I wanna see stuff.

Robb push on dunkers feels wrong. Yay for gut feelings! Idk I just dont see dunkers as scum.

[Penn and Teller]

I'll go in more detail after my nap but a tldr is scum ari is much MUCH more agro here it's more "cheery happy yay"

This is a scarily long nap just realised I forgot to follow up on this!

What do you mean? He's being unusually aggro this game or too cheery?

[Penn and Teller]

Thank you!

As far as Aristophanes goes, does anyone have any reason to suggest the rope apart from inactivity? Please do offer it up if so. I have a reason for asking.

Drixx, what was your reason for asking? Maria says she has a tone read on Ari that isn't dependent on his inactivity.

I believe Ari had a reasonable reason for being super low activity, and I would argue to give him an ultimatum to put up content tomorrow or eat rope. Town!Ari can be a huge asset. Lurker!Ari is almost always just a waste of a lynch. I don't recall ever seeing him just hard lurk as scum, and certainly it does not seem like something a scum him would do in a game that warns about consequences for hard lurking.

The consequences for hard lurking have not had an effect on the majority of players, meaning that using them as a defence for one player in particular is weak at best, and they also impact town. Why is that somehow a reason for Ari to be town instead?
Why should he get the ultimatum tomorrow and not today?

[Penn and Teller]

Dunkerdoodles has been gone for nearly four days.

Aristophanes, do you mind reappearing for a second and saying what those opinions you mentioned were? Really super quick?

Drixx, can you come back and respond please? It's been a while.

[Penn and Teller]

You have no idea how happy I am that you responded. I know I asked for quick thoughts, so thank you for those.

But regarding recent events, do you have any opinion on Dunkerdoodles and on Robb's push on him? Since you don't mention either of them and it's rather top of my mind at the moment.

[Penn and Teller]

Dunkers.

[Penn and Teller]

everyone's inactive.

robbs been pushing wagon but drixx isnt a fan of the push.

ari has been promising reads and has given some trs but no srs.

fame was supposed to catchup.

thats all i remember

-ntrp

[Penn and Teller]

ebwop

robbs been pushing dunkers wagon

[Penn and Teller]

Ari is now L1 so there's that.

But why tho? Can I get some reason with that vote?

Ok back and planning on reading up tonight or tomorrow. If anyone can give me a summary of what's been going on that would be awesome.

It may be faster for you to read the game, to be honest. NTRP just gave MBC a bit of a summary in 1009.

Dunkerdoodles fell down a well. Drixx is voting you in spirit, Aristophanes gave some townreads, and we think Ari is a better bet than Dunkers for scum right now. MBC put Ari to L-1. Maria and Zach both look like they're still keen on that lynch, Maria gave some explanation in 998.

Did I miss anything important?

[Penn and Teller]

What the absolute hell.

UNVOTE:

no one else has been posting, i have nothing to comment on.

This is a baldfaced lie. I have asked you to explain your read on us and your read on Ari, and even reminded you to answer, and you say you have nothing to comment on?

I'm particularly angry given how much I've been trying to push activity in this game, and you think it's totally fine to just skip out for four days on the basis that "no one else has been posting".

Like NTRP thought you might be town who just wasn't explaining himself properly, so I tried to get you to explain yourself, and you VANISH.

I'm still keen on an Ari lynch but not with that intent, no way.

Dunkerdoodles: Why the hell do you want to lynch Aristophanes?

[Penn and Teller]

942
Dunkerdoodles, read and respond

please.

Robb: I've heard Creature habitually lurks as scum. You can't really apply that here. And even if you could, it applies to a whole bunch of people in this game and not just Dunkers.


PEdit: You're going to have to wait for NTRP for that one, sorry, he's the one who can't quite see him as scum.
But from me: Dunkers, as town, is scummy. It's like you've been going for him because of that surface scumminess without trying to poke further into what is causing him to say the things he does, to figure out the mentality behind it.

[Penn and Teller]

NTRP has played with Dunkers before - he's lynchbait who often doesn't get listened to, as either alignment.

So from my perspective, he requires a bit more work to sort.

[Penn and Teller]

@robb ive played woth dunkers a lot and he is really lynchbaity so ur absolute certainty that he was scum kinda threw me off. Me not liking the wagon was mostly a gut feels thing tho.

@maria what do u think of dunkers' recent posting?

-ntrp

[Penn and Teller]

I'll find em after school

remind me so i dont forget.

also to clarify. When I say a lot it may not be your definition of a lot. Its a lot compared to the amount of games at ms. I think dunkers has been in about half the games ive been in and has been lynchbaity everytime

[Penn and Teller]

ebwop amount of games ive pkayed at ms*

[Penn and Teller]

idrk, but yeah i townread you and ntrp is sorta null. paul i always scumread when he is town so i'm being careful.

Yeah
But
This doesn't answer my question?

I asked

why

you townread me. What makes me worth townreading? I just recently completed a game as town where a scum player told me postgame that he BSed an excuse to townread me so I'd leave him alone, so can you see why I'm suspicious that you've switched your read on us based on me? I need more of a reason.

i had just noticed the 2 opening post related to boon in his ISO, i think they're actually really telling of a scumteam between them.
i also believe i mentioned this, but everyone else scumreading ari makes me scumread ari more just because i know i'm not being stupid or my read is terrible because other people agree with it.

So when I said "can you elaborate on what in the rest of Ari's ISO feels scummy" you thought I would be happy with you reiterating why his opening RVS posts make him scum with Boonskiies? And not mentioning the rest of his ISO at all?
You also did not mention Ari a single time (iirc) before your random out-of-the-blue scumread, so it feels very much to me like you just conjured it up because he's currently the alternative lynch to you. Not because you think he is actually scum.
Sheeping popular opinion also makes no sense - you can't think "everyone thinks this person is scum, they must be scum" when one of your reasons for scumreading Robb is everyone townreading him!

Why aren't you pushing Robb, now that Drixx agrees with you? And also why did you avoid answering me the first time by lurking out?

I'm back. I'm sort of interested in seeing where this P&T thread goes.

oh hey Drixx, why wasn't that post a vote on Robb considering what you said earlier and also could you answer my questions from earlier please?
What sort of interests you here?

[Penn and Teller]

I'm interested in why you are misrepresenting DD as mislynch bait when it's clearly not the case and it was easy to see that in just a few moments.

1.) Click his name
2.) View his topics
3.) Go into games he played and ISO him
4.) Click on the final post he made, and look to see how far along in the game it was and if he got mislynched.

It literally took like 3 minutes to realize you were pushing a bullshit narrative. I was interested in seeing how it played out but other people didn't realize it was a good time to keep info to themselves and let you hang yourself.

Hmm.

Are you going to engage with me now then?

Firstly: completed games usually have the relevant information in the OP, I've found. I've now skimmed his ISO in two town games and one scum game, and I need to talk with NTRP about it, but Dunkey normally plays better as both alignments so I'm not sure what's going on here. You're right - I should have checked earlier.

Secondly: O detail-oriented one, why did you not bring this up

when it was being discussed in the first place

? It would have taken only 3 minutes of research, after all.

I get called lynch bait everyone game whether I'm town or scum which is either a good thing or a bad thing idrk.

Rather questionable that you've left it this late. Like 30 pages after the time I would have expected you to say it. If you did, please quote me the relevant posts.

Thirdly: I ask questions. That is how I function. I thought he was likely to get misread as scum even as town, especially after the aforementioned discussion, so I asked questions to get more information. Spoiler alert: I am not happy with his answers, which I thought was abundantly clear. I'm also a fan of the "give them enough rope to hang themselves" strategy.

Fourthly: why are you not explaining your defence of Aristophanes, like I have asked you very nicely to, and why have you dropped Robb like a sack of potatoes?

[Penn and Teller]

we have different definitions of mislynch bait. i mean he gets sred super easy.

since he linked all the games he has played in not gonna link anymore. in his first newbie he got sred really quickly and was almost lynched until
he claimed a pr. te thing being je is sred VEEEERY quickly.

In jungle republic I had sred him the wntire game, and while ppl didnt focus him at irst he was a near consensus lynch at the end (if i remember right).

cant talk about others cuz ongoing but needless to say he got sred incredibly quickly. within a few pists.

also his behavior is reminiscent of his town games where he is mostly silent and then jumps to largest wagon around l-1 mark.

key is right tho we need to discuss this. we kinda disagree rn so be back after some quality pt doscussion.

[Penn and Teller]

intent to hammer ari

the one shot cop claim is bad imo. its like kinda the perfect "delay" claim. like, dont lynch me i have one super useful ability i can use.

for all wondering, dunkers discussion still ongoing in pt.

-ntrp

[Penn and Teller]

Oh and obviously if Ari is scum he has to either give us one of his partners to try and stay alive or give us an actual innocent tomorrow. Like ... this is really fucking simple. Especially since the claim is 1-shot.

or or just orrrr maybe

He's a really good scum pr trying to do shit and live the night.

^^^^

i dont believe ari at the moment. if he is scum, he gets a lot more value out of his death. if he is town any value left from letting him live is negligible. yes he could be shot but also rbed, jailed, etc. like idk how common scum rbers are but if ee ars gonna consider every possibility it should be thought of.

past that i also dont really buy the "not feeling it" (sorry if its true ari). ive fallen for ate a few times so im generally dostrustrful of it.

[Penn and Teller]

ebwop if he is scum he gets more value out of his death if he lives one day*

[Penn and Teller]

its still l-1. drixx's unvote didnt xhange anything according to latest vca as he wasnt voting anyone

[Penn and Teller]

ebwop vc*

although vcs havent been too accurate so far. it'd be hilarious if ari had been hammered and titus missed drixx's vote

[Penn and Teller]

Drixx, stop being a drama llama and respond to 1055. Particularly the second and fourth points. I noticed that you ignored it.

Oh and obviously if Ari is scum he has to either give us one of his partners to try and stay alive or give us an actual innocent tomorrow. Like ... this is really fucking simple. Especially since the claim is 1-shot.

If I'm ever scum in a game with you, I'm going to be claiming cop all the livelong day if that's really what you think. That's ridiculous - why do you have no element of deciding how likely the claim is? Why is it an instant get-out-of-jail-free card? There's no way to know if you're being given an innocent or a scum partner, so what the hell are you supposed to do then?

would it hurt if i caught up during the dp?

What does "dp" mean? Also glad you're feeling better!

what makes you think i'm playing worse this game then the others?

I went and found some quotes that stood out to me from the games I looked at. I've not seen a whole lot along these lines in this game.

Spoiler: Quotes

Mini Normal 1919 (town - showing consideration of behaviour of multiple players' behaviour and alignment):

Tacos does seem to be acting weird for town. I know the self meta thing has been pointed out already but he made a lot of useless posts even after rvs. Idk seems like could be scum trying too hard to fit in.
Two face did act really aggressive towards the comments made about him and also something about defensiveness. I agree that being too defensive is not a scum tell, but being only defensive and not offensive (aka town/scumhunting) is something to consider.

Open 691 (town - showing consideration of multiple possibilities, explaining why you hold a certain position):

what if i was scum bussing my partner? then would you vote math?
i'm not actually scum, it's just a possible scenario you should've considered, except you didn't consider it because you know i'm town and you and math are scum buddies. you just immediately made up an excuse to not vote him that seemed to make sense, except it had a flaw. this is why i think u and math r scumbuddies.

Newbie 1811 (scum - explaining exactly where a scumread comes from):

it's not the reaction test that was scummy, it was your defensive 367 that is.
(ftr the reaction test is a tiny bit scummy due to it being a newbie game but i think it's fairly nai considering theres a good amount of SEs in the game)

i'm actually like 75% your scum now, i really don't like the tone of your posts.
VOTE: nero cain

i'm off to bed, i should have time to respond to questions and stuff tmr.

A reads list from the same game (scum).

Do you think you're playing the same as always? Maybe it's just because I'm playing this game and only skimmed your ISO in those games, so I'm getting a different impression?

[Penn and Teller]

Yeah, I asked. Seems like I'm just wrong, but I didn't want to leave you hanging

[Penn and Teller]

Hey, BBT! He was the IC of my first game.


Claiming SK? Is that a

thing

?

I have no idea how leashing an SK would go and the idea also weirds me out a wee bit. I assume it would be something along the lines of "kill this person or get lynched tomorrow"?

I skimmed that thread you linked, Robb. It seems that leashing is only a good option if carefully managed by an active town. So probably not this game. I think at this point we lynch the claimed scum we've got.

Sorry Ari!

[Penn and Teller]

VOTE: dunkers

[Penn and Teller]

Robb/p&t is the scum team, it checks out with them not wanting to leash the sk and also them pushing my mislynch so hard even though Paul has seen me play before and knows I am town.

Robb did consider the idea of leashing the SK and I don't know where you're going with that train of thought anyway and how it checks out at all. Please do elaborate.

If it hadn't been for NTRP thinking you're town, I would have been trying to lynch you yesterday. I actually wrote a case on you but didn't post it because NTRP thought I was wrong. Did you notice how we had to take a recess to talk about it? We disagreed pretty hard on you.

I tried to get more insight into your thought process. You vanished for four days instead of answering the questions (based on the ridiculous excuse of there being nothing to say), then came up with bad reasons to scumread Ari and townread us.

Like - your only reason for scumreading Ari was an associative with flipped scum and he was the SK so what the hell was going on there? How was that not a "oh yeah guys you should definitely lynch this other guy who isn't me here are some reasons I pulled from RVS because I can't think of any"?

finally the scum pt of the game has been opened. here is how capable dunkers is of faking his n00b status, laying low, etc...

I can probably play my newbie status a bit and lay low a bit, or I could randomly push an obvious townie and when people scumread me for that I could play it off as a nervous newbie? Idk if that stratagy would work but it's worth a shot, could even get us a mislynch.

dunkers is definitely smarter than he is letting on.

You can thank this quote for our final decision.
You actually did randomly push an obvious townie - half the game had Dunn as obvtown.

You're trying to AtE NTRP into doubting himself, because he's played you as town. He hasn't played you as scum, though, so why would you think that he would be able to tell the difference?


PEdit:

VOTE: MBC

???

Also Robb's vote puts Dunkers at L-1, I think.

[Penn and Teller]

@Mod: It looks like deadline is in a week, should that be two weeks?

[Penn and Teller]

Let it be known that should the circumstance arise in which the musical production technician of the Town genre known as "MariaR" lacks the confidence to comfortably instill a sense of trustworthiness into you due to past dispositions regarding the nature of your character, you have my certainty that I will be arming myself with one of many various caliber ballistic combat firearm weapons and, after loading a magazine which contains the ammunition on which the projectile lethality is based, and loading a single unit of this ammunition into the capacity chamber of the weaponized warfare mechanism after disengaging the safety locking unit located on the firearm, I will be acquiring the physical space which your biological presence encapsulates into the appropriate sighting contraptions affixed to my caliber combat gadget, so that I may then exert force from my index finger into the trigger mechanism of the weapons system and set forth a ballistics reaction which will launch a bullet-like projectile into the general direction of which you are present, with the ambition that said bullet will penetrate your epidermis and burrow deeply into your vital organ systems, leading to the internal flowing of crimson life liquids, external spillage of said liquids, and severe damage of biological tissue deemed only reparable by a trained surgeon.

This is the greatest thing ive ever seen

[Penn and Teller]

Can pen and rob claim

We can target someone each night. If they're visited or visit someone, we'll get a yes, otherwise we get a response of no movement. We targeted Dunn N1. Our song is Whose Bed Have Your Boots Been Under, by Shania Twain.



We believe Zach's vig claim on the basis of the three kills N1 (so almost definitely a vig in play) and the fact that no one has CCed it. It sounds OP af, but he's town.

Is it possible for there to be BP scum? It would be a kind of godfather to the super cop vig.

Okay so what scum role visits Boon?

doctor?

If a doctor visited Boon, wouldn't he... not have died?

[Penn and Teller]

sorry i forgot this game was a thing. gonna catch up with key.

key brought it up but when i first saw drixx's claim/push i thoight it could be scum bp/godfather. idk how godfather works here but on my og site it was either invest immune or nk immune.

[Penn and Teller]

^why?

Who did you visit each night and results?

N1: Dunn, N2: you, N3: Maria. Positive result all three times.

If a role only only fires if scum are hit, and the person attempts to target town, nothing happens. In the event of a vig, no protection is required.

See the entry for loyal.

Entry for loyal says that it would fail "as though they had been roleblocked". Drixx explicitly said that a roleblock on anyone trying to kill him would not stop the kill. Thank you for the clarification though.

[Penn and Teller]

NTRP head VLA till friday

[Penn and Teller]

Okay. So. Here's my problem.

Drixx's claim is macho doctor. But the only thing that has been claimed (apart from his own doc) that could affect his negative utility modifier is MBC's inventor role. Given that that's shown to be pretty ineffective at actually ever doing anything (mostly due to the fact that it's delayed by one night), the macho modifier makes me sceptical, without having another town protective or roleblocker type role in the game for it to actually come into play. The only reason for it to exist would be to give the disloyal vig a drawback, but apparently even that's not the case.

I think if there's BP scum to balance Zach's role, Drixx is the most likely, on the basis of that macho claim. Not to mention the way he pushed the claimed vig, which would almost guarantee a scum win.


The flaw with this theory is I don't know why there wouldn't have been a nightkill last night.

[Penn and Teller]

The problem with suggesting I am gambiting a doc claim coming off a no kill is that I

literally crumbed to MariaR yesterday that I had docced her instead of Famethyst

... and Famethyst was my first choice but I talked myself out of it.

I don't understand what you mean by this at all, to be quite honest. What crumb? And if you're gambiting scum then doesn't it make sense to crumb doc before doing a no kill, as part of your setup for the MyLo gambit?

[Penn and Teller]

Drixx:

And if you're gambiting scum then doesn't it make sense to crumb doc before doing a no kill, as part of your setup for the MyLo gambit?

In no way did you explain why this isn't true. Your crumb doesn't confirm you. Your 1375 doesn't make sense as an argument. How does you crumbing "doc that didn't protect Famethyst" somehow exclude you from no killing as scum to lend credence to a doctor fullclaim the next day?

Why did you tr me so hard drixx?

Because I doctored you and nobody died?

I think she's referring to earlier - you said you doctored her the night Famethyst died.


PEdit: Yes?

[Penn and Teller]

The only way I'm not clear is if Zach is lying. If you believe Zach is lying, then say so. If not, then he clears me and I think my confusion at how he could possibly clear me with a killing ability should either make you firmly town read me or else believe I deserve an Oscar for best acting.

Like ... pushing me is basically saying Zach is lying and I'm his partner.

You're trying very hard to redirect me onto Zach, which is scummy as all hell considering the vig is our only chance to save this if we mislynch today. I also don't really appreciate people telling me why I should be townreading them, I'd recommend not doing that.

There is a very simple way for Zach to be telling the truth and you to be lying - I believe you are BP scum, and this resulted in a false clear.

Why are you attached to BP when we have no rational way to know WHAT the mod gave the scum team? An extra kill used in the gambit I described as something Zach could have done is just as plausible. I don't understand the BP thing. I suppose if we assume a BP, that moves MBC into the pool?

There being BP scum makes a lot of sense to balance a vig that is essentially a supercop. It works as a godfather.

It is

much

more plausible than scum getting an extra kill one night and choosing to use it on their own partner. I have no idea why you would believe otherwise. Yes, this puts MBC into the pool, but it also puts you in as well. How do you not realise this?

@Mod: Sorry but would you be able to prod MBC? He's been gone four days.

[Penn and Teller]

Why are we letting drixx get away with i docced maria so we both clear. If ur scum u nokill fakeclaim doc and its an ez "clear". My other half already pushed scum!BP thing and Im in agreement there. I just dont get why Drixx seems to not be getting flak for claiming a clear that would be super ez for scum to do. I mean ive seen scum do it b4 to set up doc claim or so they can set up a doc claimZ

-ntrp

[Penn and Teller]

Why are we letting drixx get away with i docced maria so we both clear.

zach has "cleared" drixx

Drixx claims he blocked maria which would make her the mafia kill

But we think (and so do Zach and Maria apparently) that there might be a BP/godfather type scum role, making the clear potentially false. It would also be trivially easy for scum!Drixx to no kill and claim a successful protection was the reason.

No. I doctored MariaR. P&T is scum. All you have to do is read his posts from the past 12 hours or so.

Your arguments get steadily worse! I've explained multiple times why we don't believe you're 100% cleared.
If you think we're scum, for the love of god, give something more coherent than "P&T r scum bcuz posts!!"

What in our recent posts makes us scum?

Why do you insist on talking past us and ignoring our points in favour of repeating the same position that

I don't believe?

Like for god's sake work with me! Why should I believe you?

Why do you refuse to consider the possibility of BP in the scumteam?

Because it seems like the only explanation is that it makes your arguments all fall down and suddenly it's only your word holding them together!

Like to be so ridiculously blind even when making statements like

I think those are all the possible worlds we could be living in.

and the self-analysis in post 320 about how you pay attention to detail and think rationally just leaves me totally gobsmacked.


In addition:

And given the fact that MariaR dropped a gloating tell about Famethyst

Please quote me MariaR's "gloating tell".

I do like checking my sources, even if I sometimes leave it a bit late.

I need to read this today

Yes.

[Penn and Teller]

the frustration is too much to handle

The problem with suggesting I am gambiting a doc claim coming off a no kill is that I

literally crumbed to MariaR yesterday that I had docced her instead of Famethyst

... and Famethyst was my first choice but I talked myself out of it.

My goodness I am cherry picking aren't I?

I forgot to include the part where you explicitly said you were crumbing

to Maria

, hence why I thought you were definitely responding to her because in no way shape or form did your crumb insinuate she was your protection target instead, though 1375, quoted above in full, suggests it did. I can go and find more quotes to back up why I believe this, if you like.

I wanted you to quote it because she had made a couple of posts since daystart, and I wanted to see which of them was supposedly the tell. "Cherry picking" is a weak defense against my question, considering you mixed up two players and never corrected the error. And that's somehow my fault for assuming you meant what you said and asking you to provide evidence?

Why did you describe MBC's post as a "gloating tell"? Why was it gloating?

---

And... you know... if you wanted to take off the blinders for a second and stop

cherry picking what you respond to

, you could also answer the other questions I bolded!

What in our recent posts makes us scum?

...

Why do you refuse to consider the possibility of BP in the scumteam?

[Penn and Teller]

I maintain that the loyal modifier triggers the "by any means" wording of my role

Can I ask why you haven't PMed Titus to check whether a disloyal vigilante would kill you? You did say you asked her about everything you could think of, and it's odd that when you found you might have missed something you wouldn't immediately PM her to check if it's bullshit or not. You will get an answer, you can tell us the answer, and this whole thing can be cleared up.

I ask this because I'm thinking about how you tore into Dunnstral for not checking with Titus about the VCs instead of repeatedly mentioning it in thread, in post 644. Like there's a definite parallel there.

P.S. - it's common courtesy to sign your posts when in hydra so people know which head they're talking to. The only plausible reason not to sign (other than to just annoy people) is to avoid meta reading.

I will sign from now on.

Spoiler: Kind of off topic

I saw the other head of Reasonably Rational (can't remember if you were involved?) having this argument with The Wood Cutters in Yume's Cutsie U-Pick, and found myself very much on the pro-signing side for social purposes - I want to know who's talking so I can get more of a connection with the player. Plus the whole "cohesive unit" thing doesn't go so well when the unit is referring to parts of itself, it's just jarring.

I stopped signing this game when it felt redundant because of how very different our posts are, even for people not familiar with us. If you were having trouble telling us apart you could have told me/us and I would have immediately started again. I'm truly sorry if it's been annoying you, it was never the intention!

-Key

[Penn and Teller]

Penn back out of that tunnel on Drixx.......... it is in no way useful.

I'll have your vote when you're ready

Or really anyones vote. Or uh we can just. Hang out like we've been doing for this day.

(bolding mine)

The way you put that makes it so tempting to vote you, just so you know. But fine. Drixx is off the table. Why should we vote MBC?

"Because I said so" is not too flash a reason. You're pretty much confirmed town but that doesn't necessarily make you right.

[Penn and Teller]

Oh bloody hell I

just

said I'd sign, didn't I, already failing. The above post was by Keychain.

We've been trying to solve and for not being transparent we've now gotten shit from you... robb... and drixx... .Robb is comfortable insinuating Maria and I could be trust telling. For being transparent about my role we've gotten nothing but shit, LOL.

Are you fishing for sympathy or something? You're not likely to get it from me considering the opening sentence of your post, believe you me.

We've been trying to solve the game and have PoEd to the point where it can actually be auto because of my role despite being MYLO right now.

Like autowin? How is that?


-Key

[Penn and Teller]

I don't know that saving town from autoloss is the same as autowin, but I see what you mean.

I don't know if you guys are newer, that was my impression but you skipped past the implications of some of his play and what it means in terms of alignment.

This is a good point. 1419 I think was the first time that Drixx actually explained why my argument didn't make sense with his macho claim (or at least the first time it got through).

So why MBC instead of Robb?


-Key

[Penn and Teller]

Maria is better at answering questions than you are.

Because I tr Robb over MBC by a landslide

This makes sense, I guess.


-Key

[Penn and Teller]

Oh my god you are so hard to understand.

But it seems to be the best option. So we're hammering.

VOTE: Mint Berry Crunch


-Key

[Penn and Teller]

It's been... quite a long time since we've seen her...

I PMed her yesterday but she hasn't opened it. So I PMed the listmod today to let him know we're stuck in twilight. I don't know if that's going to help, but hey.


-Key

[Penn and Teller]

Thos feels like when the teacher left the room and ur waiting for them to get back so class can resume which means its

PAAAAAAAARTY TIME

-ntrp

[Penn and Teller]

riiip

gg town

ive taken so many Ls as scum lol. Im not a good scummer.